A Conversation with Chef BJ Lieberman

Interview by Megan Smith / Introduction by Jack McLaughlin / Photography by Ben Callahan / Layout by Tori Smith

B.J. Leiberman is a man on fire. Not only has he engineered one of the city’s most popular restaurants in Chapman’s Eat Market (tapped for The New York Times’ list of the top 50 U.S. eateries in 2021), he and partner Bronwyn Haines launched a swanky new subterranean jazz and cocktail club, Ginger Rabbit, last year. His sights are now set on Hiraeth, an anticipated live-fire dining concept coming to the Short North in a few months.

614 Refined recently chatted with the lauded local restaurateur. While we learned about his culinary career and the ethos behind a famous Chapman’s dessert, we also wanted to look behind the white hat to learn more about B.J. as a person. From a passion for people to unusual ice cream toppings, here’s what we learned.

Your wife, Bronwyn Haines, and you recently opened Ginger Rabbit Jazz Lounge in the heart of the Short North. Walk us through what a perfect night at Ginger Rabbit would look like through your eyes. From cocktails to music, to the energy in the space.

Honestly, a perfect night at Ginger Rabbit happens more often than not. If the band is great and we have a full dining room where the crowd is engaged in the music, there isn’t a whole ton not to love. Our bar team is super consistent and quick with the beverages, so most nights I’d say we’re having an awesome time, and as long as our guests, the musicians, and our staff are happy, Bronwyn and I are happy.

You’ve lived and worked in quite a few cities. From a childhood in northern Virginia to college and a culinary career in Charleston, South Carolina, and Washington DC (I’m sure I’ve left out a few in between.) What, in your opinion, makes Columbus’ food scene different than the other cities you’ve been in?

I am very fortunate to have lived in both Charleston and DC when each city went through a huge transition from cities seeking their culinary identity to a true food destination. Both cities are obviously different from each other, as is Columbus, but I see a lot of the same things happening here that I’ve seen in Charleston and DC. I think Columbus’ food identity to this point has been tied to the idea that we’re “Anytown, USA” and the perfect proving ground for fast food, fast casual, and other franchise concepts, but that can’t be the defining characteristic of a serious food city. The thing that I see happening here that excites me is the rise of independent operators and unique dining concepts. Restaurants are one of the main building blocks of communities and community identities, and there cannot be an established identity if the best restaurant in your neighborhood is a fast food chain or a franchise that started in Boston. Some of my dear friends are doing amazing things at their restaurants in this city, and I see it trending the way Charleston and DC did years ago.

The Chapman’s Eat Market website says, “Our entire kitchen staff has input on the menu, so it’s an amalgam of all our shared and individual experiences with the food of our childhoods, our homelands and all things that inspire us in travel and research.” What’s one dish currently on the menu at the restaurant that is a nod to a specific experience or inspiration you’ve had? Would you share that memory with us?

Our Khao Soi is the best example of this. It’s one of maybe two or three dishes that are still on the menu from our opening and the story behind it means a lot to me. We call that dish our “love letter to Chiang Mai” because Bronwyn and I took our honeymoon in Thailand, and although we traveled to a bunch of cities, our favorite and most memorable experiences were in Chiang Mai. You can find Khao Soi all over Thailand and other SE Asian countries, but the term Khao Soi simply means “broken rice”, so every country, every city, and every establishment put its own spin on it, but at the end of the day, it is essentially a curry dish. In Chiang Mai specifically, there is actually no rice in the dish at all. It’s a yellow curry, generally with chicken or pork and the thing that makes it unique from other Khao Soi is that it features noodles that are both freshly boiled in the broth and noodles that are fried and added on top as garnish. In the tradition of the dish, we have also put our own spin on it by incorporating shrimp and a pea leaf salad on top, so it is less of a direct representation of what we ate in Thailand and more of a way for us to pay homage to an amazing dish in an amazing place.

Food is a connector. How do you see this essential element of our human connection as either cultivated or wasted in current culture?

Oh, jeez. I feel like there are some land mines here and I could easily go on a diatribe about our current state of politics and the forces that exist explicitly to divide us, but the least controversial and most honest answer that I can give is that I see restaurants as a vital part of human existence. Ditto for bars, pubs, etc. They are all meeting places. Breaking bread, sharing a drink, sharing a story, etc. You can’t do that dining alone in front of a TV or computer screen. Humans crave interaction and having a community-centric place to see others and share a meal is the most timeless of human behaviors. We’ve always said that we are a neighborhood restaurant first. The folks of German Village are our backbone. Folks are obviously welcome from all over Columbus, but we love to see our GV regulars and get to know their names, and their favorites, and create a truly welcoming dining experience for our community.

You obviously know your way around a kitchen. Where do you see us everyday cooks messing up in terms of the basics? Are there a couple of areas in that we could have more success and less frustration in the kitchen in your opinion?

I feel like people rely too much on recipes and need to always try something new. I am a strong advocate for learning how to make a handful of dishes and learning them well, to the point that you don’t need a step-by-step recipe to figure it out. I’m also a big advocate for messing things up. If you don’t make mistakes, how will you know how to fix something? Bronwyn actually cooks more at home than I do and her greatest successes are cooking things that her mom made her as a kid since she knows what she wants out of the dish, she has a reference point, and she has a guide in her mother to teach her the recipes. She made her mom’s potato soup for us the other night and it was amazing, and I was like, “Why do you try to make stuff out of a cookbook when you have this awesome soup just sitting in your head, ready to go?” It was really delicious.

It’s a gorgeous day in Columbus and you have a rare opportunity to be out of the kitchen and exploring, eating, shopping, making memories. Where would you go?

Golf. I started playing during the pandemic since it was a great way to be outside and safe while doing something fun and somewhat exercise-adjacent for 4 hours and I just fell in love with it. I’m not very good, but you don’t have to be good at golf to enjoy it.

What are you most proud of within the walls of Chapman’s Eat Market?

Our team, absolutely. Restaurants are a team sport and we have some awesome folks who support me, challenge me, and take ownership of their roles in the restaurant. We, for the most part, all get along and I couldn’t be more proud when I walk in and everyone has a smile on their face getting ready to make our guests happy.

Quick 10

What would others say is your greatest virtue?

Probably patience and having an analytical brain. I feel like there is a solution to every problem if approached logically.

What item of clothing gets the most mileage in your wardrobe?

Either my Lox baseball cap or my black hoodie. Pretty much my uniform at this point.

What feeds you creatively?

Being inspired by other people. I love working with my chefs and cooks to see their ideas come to life. I think I’m a better wingman than a chef at this point in my career.

What zaps you creatively?

Admin work. It’s hard to wrap up a million emails and then put my creative hat on. I try to have certain days scheduled to do admin work and certain days scheduled to have fun with the team either before or during service.

Favorite pizza topping?

I like a good veggie pizza. Mushrooms, onions, peppers.

Hamburger topping?

I think the Chapman’s burger is perfect. Fast food style, two thin patties, onion, sauce, cheese, and a pickle and I’m a happy camper.

Ice cream topping?

Depends on the ice cream! But we do French vanilla with olive oil and sea salt which is out of this world.

3 ingredients we should have in our pantry at all times?

Kosher Salt, not table salt. Fish Sauce. Crunchy peanut butter.

Fridge?

Iceberg Lettuce. Valentina’s Hot Sauce. Eggs.

Freezer?

Chapman’s Ice Cream. Petit Pois (frozen sweet peas). Frozen fruit to make smoothies.