K N O W I N G K N O W I N G An interview with Magid Magid, Lord Mayor of Sheffield, about identity and stereotypes.
M E , Y O U .
Thank you to Magid and Jack.
In May 2018 Magid Magid become the first black Muslim Lord Mayor of Sheffield. And the youngest. Since then he has declared Donald Trump a “wasteman”, appeared on Big Narstie Show, created a suicide prevention charter and been subject to a petition to remove him as mayor. We sat down in his mayoral chamber and had a conversation about identity, race and camels.
Are there any cultural stereotypes about Somalia that you have been subjected to? Somalia is not a big country. People aren’t as familiar with it as they are with, like, Indian culture, Jamaican culture. It’s hard for people to pick out specific stereotypes. I might get stereotyped as the black part of my identity but I probably wouldn’t get stereotyped for the Somali part of my identity because not a lot of people really know much about Somali culture.
KNOWING ME, KNOWING YOU.
Do you think people should know more about it? (Somali culture) Possibly. It’s an interesting culture. I think because the Somalis recently came to the UK, I’m talking about mainly in the late 80’s and 90s - I think the longer a culture is established in the UK, the more people familiarise themselves with that culture. I think it’s just a matter of time before people get to understand and learn about Somali culture. When you look at the Pakistani and Indian culture, that’s been here for over 100 years or so, people already have had time to accustom to that culture, they’ll have a better understanding of it.
Do you get offended when people refer to you, or other people from Africa as ‘African’? Yeah because you know what? Africa is a continent, it’s so diverse. You look at North Africa and South Africa, they are completely different. East, West, completely different. So, I think yeah it’s just people being lazy. Americans do it, they say ‘Oh yeah I’m going to Europe’. Are you going to Doncaster or Barcelona? It’s completely different. Even when I was at uni there were people that still thought that Africa is a country. Which is actually quite sad. You know what I mean? Yeah that’s scary Yeah, scary is probably a better word to be honest. I do wish people had a better understanding of Africa and you know it’s not fucking hard. Just google it. Information is so accessible. I think people are just lazy. People just want information given to them and they aren’t willing to actually learn and as a result they get fed a lot of bullshit.
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THEY AREN’T WILLING TO ACTUALLY LEARN AND AS A RESULT THEY GET FED A LOT OF
BULLSHIT.
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KNOWING ME, KNOWING YOU.
Are there any specific pressures attached to being a male in Somali culture? How do these differ from white British expectations if any? Well, I should be married by now. I should have kids by now. There’s that expectation. There’s a lot of pressure from family, but I don’t feel that pressure because I just don’t give a shit to be honest. There definitely isn’t as much pressure in English families. I guess men are expected to be married early mid twenties and have a family and all that. That’s the only kind of cultural pressure I would say. What do you think are some of the pressures that the boys that go to the Unity Gym boxing club might face? As young Somali men? Again, if we are talking about specifically cultural pressures from the Somali side, I don’t really know what they would experience. There are societal pressures that come from living in a deprived community. Then again, I think those are same pressures anybody living in a deprived community would have regardless of what your background and culture is. Talking about cultural pressures, education is one. There’s always this real pressure to get all A grades and really work harder than everyone else.
Were you affected by the rhetoric surrounding Brexit and Trump’s election?
Essentially a rap battle. That’s how they would try to solve their problems before any blood was shed.
I was quite worried if I’m honest. Just because of all the horrible, negative, xenophobic rhetoric that was happening. Especially when you get it from world leaders like Donald Trump. When you have all that come up, it legitimises all the other stuff that people believe. If you were part of any right wing group like Britain First or EDL and you’re seeing all this language in the media, it kind of legitimizes what you believe. That for me was scary. There were cases of school children like telling other kids to ‘go home’ because of the Brexit vote, they would have got that message from their parents, it’s scary.
Is that quite specific to Somalia? Yeah yeah, it’s really interesting.
Are there any particular words or phrases in Somali that strongly link to a cultural or national identity? I wouldn’t say words but maybe poetry. Somalia is known as a nation of poets because the language is quite poetic. For example, a couple hundred years ago, when there were tribes and clans, if there was any kind warfare, one way they would try to resolve it would be to get each clan’s best poet and have some kind of poet-off.
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Are political systems in the UK set up for non-white people to succeed?
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Certain aspects of it. If you look at all the prime ministers and top people in the cabinet. If you look at where they are from, their backgrounds, the majority of them went to private school. If you then look at the people who go to private school, it’s mostly English white descents, traditionally. So naturally, there’s more chance of a white person (specifically male) to be leader of the country. I think people of colour, BME people, suffer with the same stuff as disabled people, people from the LGBT community, when it comes to opportunities. The sad thing about it is, the people, our prime minister, the cabinet members, they don’t reflect the society we live in. They don’t reflect the people that they represent. So how can we expect them to understand what child poverty is? One of the reasons I feel like I’ve got a lot of attention has been because of failed democracy. Had there been more people of colour, more LGBT people, more disabled people in those positions, it wouldn’t have been such a surprise for me to become the mayor it would have just been widely accepted but because that isn’t the case, everyone was like holy shit.
What about you individually? becoming Mayor and having been an elected green party councilor for almost 3 years now, what have you found to be some of the biggest barriers you’ve faced? The people who would have built this office would never have thought that there would be a Black Muslim mayor breaking his fast in here during the month of Ramadan. They would have never imagined at all something like that. Really, I should not be in the position I am in to be honest, that’s what makes it all the more interesting and exciting for a lot of people. Also, a lot of people fucking hate that. They can’t stand the fact that I’m in the position I am because I’m breaking tradition, which is what a lot of people use as an excuse for their racism. ‘He doesn’t represent me’, ‘he’s breaking tradition’. It’s fascinating, it really is. The rebellious side of me loves the fact that I am not what they expect me to be.
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I AM NOT WHAT THEY EXPECT ME TO BE.
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KNOWING ME, KNOWING YOU.
Do you think people in Sheffield know of your country’s history? No. I don’t think people know of Somalia. They know Somali people but don’t know much about the country itself. They might make like the odd Captain Phillips reference, like cultural references. ‘Yeah Mo Farah we know him!’ But past that, no. Can you think of any ways in which design has been used to project your cultural identity? The outline is pretty iconic. The geographical line shape of Somalia. Um. Camels! Fuck! Yeah, camels. So in the same way a bulldog is associated with Britain, a camel is linked with Somalia? Yeah they’re everywhere, sometimes with a herder and sometimes on their own. Definitely camels are a big thing in Somalia.
Interview, photography & design - Emily de Aguilar. 11
KNOWING ME, KNOWING YOU An interview with Magid Magid, the mayor of Sheffield, about identity and stereotypes.