ENTER YOUR TEXT
COMPILED BY: STILL BREATHING
DECOLONIZE THE CURRICULUM
THE BLACK ISSUE
ADULT| DREAMS
YOUTH DRIVEN| BLACK ISSUE
It’s not how you fall, its how you land
Decolonize The Curriculum
II
ADULT|Content ITS NOT ABOUT HOW YOU FALL, IT’S ABOUT HOW YOU LAND
/ YOUTH DRIVEN
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” AN IN-DEPTH CONVERSATION BETWEEN NTOKOZO MDAKI AND YOLISA ZOKUFA ABOUT #DECOLONIZETHECURRICULUM AND BLACK LIFE IN A COLONIAL SOCIETY
YOLISA ZOKUFA: WHAT’S UP BRUH
NTOKOZO MDAKI: I’M CHILLING DUDE, WOKE UP EARLY THIS MORNING, WORKED OUT. I’M BUSY LEARNING HOW TO PLAY BASKETBALL SO I ALSO DID SOME DRILLS OUTSIDE. YOLISA: LIT, DO YOU HAVE A HOOP?
NTOKOZO: [LAUGHS] NAH, I’M JUST LEARNING HOW TO DRIBBLE AND SHIT . YOLISA: NAH, YOU MUST GET A HOOP ON TAKE A LOT OR SOME SHIT, I WAS ON MY EXERCISE SHIT BUT LIKE THEN LIFE KINDA HAPPENED AND I HAVEN’T REALLY BEEN ON IT. NTOKOZO: [LAUGHS] SO SHOULD WE START THIS ON SOME INTERVIEW TYPE SHIT? YOLISA: DO YOU WANNA LEAD OR? NTOKOZO: NAH YOU CAN LEAD.
YOLISA: AWE, THAT MAKES SENSE, SO LIKE WHAT MADE YOU LIKE START THIS PETITION?
NTOKOZO: SO BASICALLY, LIKE I WAS TOO YOUNG FOR LIKE THE FEES MUST FALL SHIT, LIKE I GOT TO UNIVERSITY WHEN THAT SHIT DIED. YOLISA: WHAT YEAR WAS THAT? NTOKOZO: 2017.
YOLISA: OH YEAH NAH IT WAS DEAD, AND YOU WERE ALSO AT LIKE A PRIVATE UNIVERSITY SO YOU’RE NOT IN IT LIKE THAT.
NTOKOZO: EXACTLY BUT I KINDA ALWAYS FELT LIKE THIS THING OF WANTING TO BE A PART OF LIKE A CHANGE AND SHIT AND NOW WE HAVE THE BLACK LIVES MATTER THING HAPPEN AND I JUST BECOME SO ENTRENCHED IN IT, LIKE I’M RESEARCHING AND I’M ADDING MY OWN OPINIONS. SO, ONE DAY I POST ABOUT HOW THE EU HAD A VOTE OF WHETHER OR NOT TO DECLARE “BLACK LIVES MATTER”, IN THE END ITS LIKE 400 AND SOMETHING VOTES TO 100 AND SOMETHING VOTES DECLARING “BLACK LIVES MATTER” BUT THERE’S NO LEGAL IMPLICATIONS AND I START POSTING ABOUT WHY THAT MEANS NOTHING. MY FRIEND BASI THEN SENDS ME A LINK ON THE PICTURE OF PATRICE LUMUMBA ON MY STORY FOR A DOCUMENTARY ABOUT CUBA AND THEIR INVOLVEMENT IN THE LIBERATION OF AFRICAN COUNTRIES. YOLISA: OH YEAH DUDE! FIDEL WAS OUT HERE!
PNTOKOZO: RIGHT! SO, THEN ME AND BASI START TALKING ABOUT THIS IS THE SHIT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE LEARNING AT SCHOOL AND I START TALKING TO OTHER FRIENDS ABOUT THAT AND I’M LIKE INSTEAD OF JUST SAYING IT, LET ME DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT AND I CREATED THE PETITION YOLISA: WHAT LIKE SOCIAL STUDIES SUBJECTS DID YOU GUYS HAVE? DID YOU TAKE HISTORY? NTOKOZO: NAH THERE WEREN’T ENOUGH OF US WHO SIGNED UP FOR IT TO BE A SUBJECT IN MY GRADE BRUH YOLISA: WHAT SUBJECTS DID YOU TAKE IN SCHOOL? NTOKOZO: I TOOK ART, GEOGRAPHY AND EGD.
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YOLISA: WAIT, FOR PEOPLE WHO DON’T KNOW WHAT EGD IS, CAN YOU PLEASE EXPLAIN. NTOKOZO: OH, ITS ENGINEERING, GRAPHICS AND DESIGN, IT’S LIKE FOR PEOPLE WHO WANNA BE LIKE ENGINEERS OR ARCHITECTS AND SHIT BUT THEN AFTER GR10 I ENDED UP DROPPING IT FOR BUSINESS STUDIES . YOLISA: ARE THERE ANY SUBJECTS THAT YOU FELT LIKE INFORMED YOU ON THE SHIT THAT YOU’RE ON NOW OR JUST FEEL LIKE MADE AN IMPACT ON YOU? NTOKOZO: BRO LIKE ME AND MY HOMIE BASI WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT AND LIKE FOR ME THE ONLY SUBJECT I COULD SAY WAS ART AND FOR HER IT WAS DRAMA. LIKE IN ART WE LIKE DELVED INTO BLACK ART AND WE HAD LIKE THIS TIME WHERE WE TALKED ABOUT LIKE, APARTHEID ACTIVISM AND SHIT LIKE THAT AND OUR TEACHER WAS LIKE SPEAK TO LIKE SOME OF THE TEACHERS HERE ABOUT THE SHIT THAT HAPPENED. SO LIKE WE SPOKE TO ONE OF THE WHITE GUYS THAT WORKED AT OUR SCHOOL AND HE WAS A COP OR SOME SHIT DURING APARTHEID SO LIKE WE WERE NEVER GONNA GET THE REAL SHIT FROM HIM, EVERYTHING WAS VERY SURFACE LEVEL BUT YOU COULD TELL THERE WAS TRAUMA THERE. THEN WE SPOKE TO ONE OF THE BLACK TEACHERS, WHO WAS ONE OF OUR MATHS TEACHERS, AND HE WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW LIKE COPS LITERALLY CAME INTO HIS HOME INTERROGATING HIM ABOUT WHETHER HE WAS A TERRORIST AND SHIT OR NOT, LIKE THAT SHIT WAS REAL LIFE THAT NIGGAS WENT THROUGH. YOLISA: FOR REAL DAWG, BUT LIKE FOR ME, MY EXPERIENCE WITH DRAMA WAS A BIT SHAKY. LIKE IF I’M GONNA BE HONEST LIKE I WAS ONE OF THE TOP PERFORMERS IN MY CLASS. NTOKOZO: TALK YOUR SHIT BRUH! YOLISA: FOR REAL, I BACK MYSELF. SO, LIKE ONE YEAR THE PLAY THAT WE’RE GONNA PUT ON HIS HAMLET RIGHT; AND WE GO FOR AUDITIONS AND SHIT THEN ITS TIME FOR US TO GET OUR ROLES AND I GET THE ROLE OF GRAVE DIGGER, AND HER EXCUSE IS LIKE “YEAH I WANTED TO ADD A BIT OF SOUTH AFRICAN AUTHENTICITY TO THE PLAY BECAUSE IT’S SO SHAKESPEAREAN”. SO, SHE HAS ME AND THIS WHITE GIRL, WHO’S THE OTHER GRAVE DIGGER, DOING THE “BLACK ACCENT” AND SHIT. NTOKOZO: [LAUGHS] WHAT THE FUCK??? YOLISA: DAWG LIKE SHE TELLS ME THAT “IT’S SUCH A HEAVY PLAY SO WE NEED A BIT OF COMIC RELIEF”. NTOKOZO: WHAT THE FUCK, SHE LITERALLY WANTED YOU TO SHUCK AND JIVE BRUH [LAUGHS]
YOLISA: BRO, AND AT THAT TIME IT’S LIKE YOU KIND OF ACCEPT IT BECAUSE YOU’RE LIKE IN DRAMA AND YOU WANNA ENTERTAIN THE AUDIENCE BUT YOU LOOK BACK AND YOU’RE LIKE WHAT THE FUCK, THIS SHIT WAS SO FUCKED UP. NTOKOZO: BRO I CAN’T BELIEVE SHE LITERALLY WANTED YOU TO BE OUT HERE SHUCKING AND JIVING YOLISA: BUT LIKE WHAT DOES A DECOLONIZED CURRICULUM LOOK LIKE FOR YOU? NTOKOZO: FOR ME, IT’S REALLY ABOUT TEACHING THAT’S BASED AROUND LEARNING AFRICAN HISTORY BRUH, LEARNING ABOUT WHO WE ARE AS AFRICANS AND SHIT. LIKE WHY WE ARE WE OUT HERE ONLY LEARNING ABOUT WINSTON CHURCHILL AND SHIT
YOLISA: BRUH, LIKE THE IDEA OF HOW WE GET TAUGHT ABOUT OUR HISTORY IS LITERALLY JUST APARTHEID, NELSON MANDELA AND THAT’S IT NTOKOZO: LITERALLY, THERE HAS TO BE AN UNDERSTANDING THAT AFRICA ISN’T JUST THIS PLACE WE NEED TO FEEL SORRY ABOUT YOLISA: WHEN YOU THINK OF THE IDEA OF DECOLONIZED, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU?
NTOKOZO: I THINK IT’S THE IDEA OF SEEING WHO WE ARE THROUGH THE LENS OF AFRICANS AND AS BLACK PEOPLE, AND NOT THROUGH THE E YOLISA: DAWG LIKE SO MUCH OF WHAT WE DO IS BASED AROUND LIKE THE WHITE LENS. NTOKOZO: EXACTLY, AND I WAS HAVING THIS CONVERSATION WITH MY DAD IN THE CAR ABOUT TALKING TO MY MOM ABOUT THIS THING OF BEING A GOOD BLACK, LIKE SHE WAS TALKING TO ME ABOUT HOW WHEN YOU MOVE INTO A WHITE NEIGHBOURHOOD, YOU HAVE THIS THING OF NOT WANTING TO BE THE ONES THAT ARE PLAYING MUSIC LOUD AND SHIT AND ALL THAT, AND I WAS LIKE NAH THAT SHOULDN’T BE A THING. WHO GIVES A FUCK ABOUT WHAT WHITE PEOPLE THINK. LIKE ME AND MY DAD WERE SPEAKING ABOUT IT BECAUSE I WAS TELLING HIM ABOUT HOW TRUE EQUALITY IS WHEN WE JUST ALLOW BLACK PEOPLE TO BE WHATEVER THEY CHOOSE TO BE AND THAT’S THE VIBE OUR GENERATION IS ON. AND YOU KNOW HOW IT IS WITH OLDER BLACK PEOPLE (WELL MEN, IN THE CASE OF MY MOM WE’RE SUPER CHILLED AND TALK MENTAL HEALTH AND SHIT) WHERE THEY SAY THINGS LIKE AT LEAST YOU GUYS HAVE INSTITUTIONS TO COMPLAIN TO AND ALL THAT STUFF, BUT THEY REALLY DON’T MEAN ANYTHING IF WE’RE STILL LIVING IN A WHITE PATRIARCHAL SOCIETY. YOLISA: YEAH THERE’S THAT DISCONNECT BECAUSE OF HOW WE’RE LIVING THROUGH THIS ERA. NTOKOZO: EXACTLY, AND HE WAS TELLING ME THAT HE SOMETIMES HE FEELS LIKE OUR GENERATION AREN’T WORKING TOWARDS OUR FULL POTENTIAL, WE GIVE WHITE PEOPLE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SAY SHIT ABOUT US AND IT’S LIKE BRO, EVEN IF WE LOOK AT YOUR GENERATION AND BLACK PEOPLE AS A WHOLE, BECAUSE WE’VE SEEN OURSELVES THROUGH THE COLONIAL LENS, WE BECOME COMFORTABLE WITH JUST NOT BEING POOR OR SOME SHIT LIKE THAT. LIKE A NIGGA COULD MAKE A BILLION BUT IF HE MAKES A MILLION, HE FEELS LIKE HE’S MADE IT BECAUSE THAT COLONIAL LENS CARRIES A CEILING THAT WE CARRY INTERNALLY. YOLISA: I FEEL YOU, LIKE WE KINDA LIVE BY THIS COLONIAL STANDARD, LIKE EVERYTHING LINKS BACK TO COLONIZATION. LITERALLY, AND IT FUCKS US UP. NTOKOZO: FOR REAL DUDE, THAT’S WHY IN THE MANIFESTO I ALSO HAVE THE SECTION ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH AWARENESS BECAUSE LIKE DUDE, MY FIRST PANIC ATTACK WAS WHEN I WAS 8. FROM LIKE 6 YEARS OLD UNTIL WHO KNOWS WHEN I HAD THIS INTERNAL CONFLICT OF MY GENDER BECAUSE AS A KID PEOPLE WOULD WALK UP TO ME AND BE LIKE “OH WHAT A PRETTY GIRL” AND AS A BOY AT THAT TIME, IT’S LIKE WHAT THE FUCK, NAH YOU WANNA BE LIKE MANLY AND SHIT BUT NOW YOU HAVE THESE PEOPLE CALLING YOU A GIRL AND YOU’RE ASSOCIATING THAT WITH WEAKNESS, THAT’S WHY FEMINISM IS A PART OF THE MANIFESTO AS WELL. LIKE KIDS NEED TO LEARN HOW TO VOCALIZE THEIR EMOTIONS, BECAUSE YOU HAVE KIDS THAT’LL THROW TEMPER TANTRUMS OR WHATEVER AND THE SCHOOL JUST SAYS “ADHD” AND NOW THE KID IS ON MEDICATION. YOLISA: I COMPLETELY HEAR YOU BRUH BECAUSE THE KIDS ARE NOT OKAY AND THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE DONE TO FIX THIS. LIKE WE’RE ALL TRAUMATIZED. LIKE WE’VE BEEN IN THESE PRIVATE SCHOOLS AND LIKE OUR PARENTS WERE OUT HERE JUST GRINDING AND STUFF BUT WE’RE IN A POSITION NOW WHERE WE HAVE TO SIT WITH ALL THIS BAGGAGE AND IT’S JUST A LOT DAWG. ESPECIALLY, IF NOW WE’RE GONNA TALK ABOUT OUR EDUCATION OF AFRICA AND SOUTH AFRICA, IT’S ALL DEPRESSING BUT THERE WERE ALL THESE LIBERATORS AND THERE WERE TRIBES AND KINGS BEFORE THAT BUT ALL WE GET TO KNOW IS ALL THE PAIN AND WE CARRY THAT AND HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT.
NTOKOZO: BRUH NOT EVEN DEAL WITH IT, WE EVEN FEEL LIKE WE HAVE TO RUN AWAY FROM IT, YOU HAVE THOSE MOMENT THINKING MAYBE I SHOULD JUST LEAVE THIS SHIT IN THE PAST. BRO LIKE NIGGAS WERE WATCHING SARAFINA SO YOUNG.
YOLISA: DAWG! NTOKOZO: BRUH, LIKE I HAVE THIS THING WHERE I’LL BE IN CERTAIN OLD BUILDINGS AND I’LL WONDER IF A BLACK PERSON WAS HUNG OUT OF THIS BUILDING, LIKE I CAN’T TURN THAT SHIT OFF . YOLISA: BRUH, LIKE THERE’S ACTUALLY THIS DEBATE ABOUT THIS POLICE STATION IN CENTRAL JOBURG WHERE PEOPLE WERE TORTURED, AND LET’S BE CLEAR, MURDERED AND THERE’S PEOPLE WHO JUMPED OUT OF THE BUILDING COMMITTING SUICIDE, AND THERE’S BEEN TALKS OF WHETHER IT SHOULD BE TURNED INTO A MUSEUM BECAUSE IT’S STILL LIKE A WORKING POLICE STATION AND CAN YOU IMAGINE THE TRAUMA THAT YOU HAVE AS A BLACK COP WORKING IN THERE RIGHT NOW?
NTOKOZO: DAWG IT’S PROBABLY SO HEAVY BUT YOU’RE JUST GOING ALONG CARRYING THAT SHIT. YOLISA: AND THERE’S THIS WHITE FAMILY OF A JOURNALIST WHO WAS FIGHTING FOR THE CAUSE THAT DIED IN THE POLICE STATION AND THEY REPORTED IT AS A SUICIDE, BUT THE FAMILY IS TRYING TO REOPEN THE C NTOKOZO: YEAH, IT’S KINDA THE CONVERSATION HAPPENING WORLDWIDE ABOUT ALL THESE MONUMENTS AND SHIT, LIKE ITS EASIER WITH STATUES BUT LIKE WITH THOSE BUILDINGS, I REALLY DON’T KNOW THE RIGHT ANSWER . YOLISA: SO, LIKE FOR YOUR KID, HOW WOULD YOU WANT THEM TO BE TAUGHT IN SCHOOL? NTOKOZO: OKAY, FIRST I WANNA SAY, I DON’T WANNA HAVE KIDS BRUH. FOR ME, I JUST FEEL LIKE EXISTENCE IS SO EXHAUSTING AND IT’S A LOT AND I WOULDN’T WANNA PUT THAT ON SOMEONE. YOLISA: FACTS, I FEEL YOU NTOKOZO: BUT FOR THIS HYPOTHETICAL KID, I WOULD JUST WANT THEM TO BE ABLE TO LIVE LIFE THROUGH THE LENS OF AN AFRICAN, I WOULD WANT THEM TO JUST BE WHOEVER THEY WANNA BE BECAUSE A LOT OF THE TIME WITH US AS BLACK KIDS, EVERYTHING WE DO BECOMES A “THING”, LIKE WE CAN’T JUST BE. SO, I’D WANT THEM TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO JUST BE. YOLISA: I HEAR YOU, AND ITS SO IMPORTANT HOW YOU SAY THAT THESE SHOULD BE THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING FROM A YOUNG AGE SO ITS NOT SOME CULTURE SHOCK FOR KIDS WHEN THEY GET OLDER AND SEE WHAT THE WORLD REALLY LOOKS LIKE, YOU KNOW? LIKE DID YOU EVER HAVE A CLASS WHERE YOU WERE KINDA JUST SHOOK? IN TERMS OF LIKE THIS TOPIC. NTOKOZO: LIKE FOR ME PERSONALLY, NAH. LIKE I HAD THE PRIVILEGE OF GROWING UP IN A HOME WHERE MY DAD TAUGHT ME ABOUT NELSON MANDELA AT A YOUNG AT LIKE 9 YEARS OLD, LIKE THOMAS SANKARA SPEAKS WAS A BOOK THAT WAS LYING AROUND IN THE HOUSE, MY DAD WOULD BRING UP RANDOM AFRICAN PRIME MINISTERS AND I’D HAVE NO IDEA WHO HE WAS TALKING ABOUT BECAUSE NIGGA, WE’RE NOT LEARNING THIS SHIT IN SCHOOL AND HE BOUGHT ME STEVE BIKO “I WRITE WHAT I LIKE” WHEN I WAS 17. NOW, I’VE NEVER REALLY BEEN CHRISTIAN AND I’M IN THIS CHRISTIAN SCHOOL WITH BIKO TELLING ME WHY WE’RE CHRISTIAN IN THE FIRST PLACE. YOLISA: 17 DAWG? LIKE THAT’S LIT, HAVE YOU READ FRANTZ FANON? NTOKOZO: NAH I HAVEN’T. YOLISA: YOU SHOULD REALLY READ IT, FRANTZ FANON – BLACK SKIN WHITE MASKS NTOKOZO: I’M DEFINITELY GONNA CHECK IT OUT. YOLISA: LIKE FOR ME MY RENTS DIDN’T REALLY HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS WITH ME, I WAS KINDA LEARNING EVERYTHING JUST THROUGH THE LENS OF SCHOOL. IT WASN’T UNTIL I GOT TO UCT AND WE HAD THIS ONE LECTURER THAT WOULD GO HARD, LIKE WHITE KIDS WOULD WALK OUT THE LECTURE BECAUSE HE WAS JUST BEING REAL. AND ONE DAY HE HAD THIS LECTURE WHERE HE ASKS, “DO YOU KNOW WHY WHITE PEOPLE AND BLACK PEOPLE CAN NEVER BE FRIENDS?”, “BECAUSE IT’S A RELATIONSHIP OF THE SUPERIOR AND THE INFERIOR” AND I WAS JUST LIKE FUCK, LIKE I HAD ALL THESE WHITE FRIENDS AND I WAS JUST THE TOKEN. NTOKOZO: BRUH FOR ME THAT MOMENT HAPPENED WHEN I WAS IN GRADE 6. SO, I WENT TO LIKE NOT THE BEST PUBLIC SCHOOL IN PRIMARY SCHOOL BUT ALSO NOT THE WORST, LIKE A LOT OF THE BLACK KIDS WERE KIDS FROM TOWNSHIPS AND I WAS THIS BLACK KID THAT HUNG OUT WITH EVERYONE. LIKE WHEN I WOULD HEAR “YOU’RE NOT LIKE THE OTHERS”, I NEVER HEARD IT FOR WHAT IT WAS, IT GENUINELY JUST FELT LIKE A MATTER OF A FACT STATEMENT, YOU KNOW? BECAUSE YOU’RE LIKE “WELL YEAH I GUESS BECAUSE I DON’T SPEAK ENGLISH THE SAME WAY THEY SPEAK ENGLISH”, “LIKE I’M INTO SHIT THAT NOT THE OTHER BLACK KIDS ARE INTO” BUT THEN IN GRADE 6 THIS BLACK KID TELLS ME “DAWG LIKE THERE’S BLACK PEOPLE THAT DON’T FUCK WITH YOU BECAUSE YOU HANG OUT WITH WHITE PEOPLE”. YOLISA: [LAUGHS] IT REALLY BE LIKE THAT! LIKE YOU GO THROUGH THESE IDENTITY CRISES OF WHO YOU ARE, LIKE THE PERSON I AM BACK HOME IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT TO THE PERSON THAT I AM IN CAPE TOWN. NTOKOZO: DAWG! I LITERALLY DON’T SPEAK ENGLISH TO MY PARENTS AND THAT’S THE LANGUAGE I THINK IN AND SHIT, WE REALLY BE LIVING IN THIS DOUBLE CONSCIOUSNESS. YOLISA: [LAUGHS] FOR REAL BRUH NTOKOZO: SO, IN THAT MOMENT I’M SO CONFUSED BECAUSE I’M LIKE, “WHAT YOU MEAN BLACK KIDS DON’T FUCK WITH ME? LIKE YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN TO MY HOUSE, WE’RE HOMIES” AND IT JUST CLICKS THAT, “OH SHIT, THESE WHITE PEOPLE ARE RACIST” AND FROM THAT MOMENT I JUST STARTED DISASSOCIATING MYSELF FROM CERTAIN PEOPLE. AND NOW WHEN I GET TO HIGH SCHOOL, AND IT’S A PRIVATE SCHOOL SO ITS MAD WHITE KIDS, AND I KINDA JUST TELL MYSELF THAT I HAVE TO PICK A SIDE AND IT WAS LIKE THE BLACK NIGGAS WERE MY SQUAD AND THAT’S WHO I WAS GONNA RIDE WITH. YOLISA: WHY DID YOU FEEL LIKE YOU HAD TO PICK A SIDE? NTOKOZO: I HONESTLY FELT LIKE MY BLACKNESS HAD BEEN TAKEN AWAY FROM ME, AND I WAS TRYING TO RECLAIM IT, SO I WAS SUPER WARY OF WHITE PEOPLE IN HIGH SCHOOL. LIKE WE WOULD CHAT AND HAVE BANTS BUT I HAD THIS THING OF KNOWING IMMEDIATELY WHO THE RACISTS WERE, LIKE I WAS JUST HYPER AWARE OF THAT SHIT . YOLISA: LIKE FOR US, IT WAS LIKE IN GRADE 10 WHERE WE SORT OF INTEGRATED AS THE BLACK GIRLS BECAUSE YOU KNOW IT WAS THE SAME THING OF “WHY YOU HAVE ALL THESE WHITE FRIENDS”. NTOKOZO: YEAH I HEAR YOU, LIKE WHEN I GOT TO UNIVERSITY I KINDA CALMED DOWN WITH THAT SHIT, IT WAS LIKE “OKAY WE CAN BE FRIENDS WITH WHITE PEOPLE” BECAUSE I FELT LIKE THAT SHIT WAS JUST GETTING OUT OF HAND ON MY SIDE, I WAS LIKE “CHILL OUT” BUT I STILL HAVE TO KNOW WHERE YOU AT, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? YOLISA: DAWG, LIKE NIGGA YOU HAVE THIS THING OF BEING LIKE “ARE YOU A COOL WHITE PERSON THOUGH?” [LAUGHS], LIKE YOU NEED TO BE DOWN FOR THE CAUSE. NTOKOZO: EXACTLY, LIKE YOU NEED TO USE YOUR PRIVILEGE AS A SHIELD FOR ME BECAUSE I’M THE ONE IN DANGER, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. YOLISA: BRO THE WAY WHITE PEOPLE GET SO UNCOMFORTABLE WITH RACISM THOUGH, LIKE DAWG I HAVE TO LIVE WITH THIS SHIT AND YOU GET TO BE UNCOMFORTABLE. NTOKOZO: NIGGA THE WAY WHITE PEOPLE GET SO OFFENDED FOR SAYING WHAT THEY DID WAS RACIST, LIKE WHAT? BRO JUST ACKNOWLEDGE THAT SHIT AND DO BETTER. YOLISA: LITERALLY, AND I CAN’T STAND A WHITE APOLOGIST, LIKE WHEN I MADE THOSE VIDEOS ABOUT MY TIME IN HIGH SCHOOL I HAD SO MANY OF THE GIRLS APOLOGIZING AND SHIT, AND IT’S LIKE “BRUH I DON’T WANT YOUR APOLOGY”. NTOKOZO: STOP SAYING SORRY AND DO SOMETHING! YOLISA: DO SOMETHING! BUT LIKE GOING BACK TO THE TALK ABOUT HOW YOUR DAD WOULD BRING UP THESE AFRICAN MINISTERS AND SHIT, LIKE HOW WE LEARN IN SCHOOL IS LITERALLY JUST NAMES AND FACES AND DATES, WE NEVER RACIALISED OR WENT IN-DEPTH WITH THOSE TALKS. NTOKOZO: LITERALLY BRUH. YOLISA: LIKE WE READ THIS BOOK CALLED DISGRACE, WHERE LIKE THIS WHITE FAMILY THAT LIVED ON THIS FARM WERE MURDERED BY THESE BLACK PEOPLE AND SHIT, AND I COULD FEEL HOW UNCOMFORTABLE IT GOT IN THE CLASS BECAUSE NOW THE FRAMING IS “THESE BLACK PEOPLE ARE JUST LIKE SAVAGES AND SHIT”, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE OF THE GIRL IN THE CLASS HAD THAT HAPPEN TO THEIR FARM. SO, SHE’S GETTING EMOTIONAL AND SHIT AND I CAN’T SAY ANYTHING TO SORT OF EXPLAIN THE SITUATION OF LAND AND OWNERSHIP. WE DIDN’T HAVE AND IN-DEPTH CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT WAS ACTUALLY HAPPENING. SO, I THINK ALONG WITH DECOLONIZING THE CURRICULUM, WE DO NEED THE BLACK TEACHERS THAT ARE GONNA BE THERE TO EXPLAIN WHY THIS IS HAPPENING AND BE THERE TO CONTEXTUALIZE THIS SHIT PROPERLY BECAUSE IF WE’RE GONNA BE REAL, THE TEACHERS ARE THE OLD WHITE LADIES AND THEY ARE INHERENTLY RACIST AND A LOT OF WHITE KIDS ARE BROUGHT UP IN HOMES WHERE THEY ARE TAUGHT THESE THINGS. NTOKOZO: EXACTLY, AS MUCH AS WE AS BLACK PEOPLE HAVE TO UNLEARN THESE INFERIORITY COMPLEXES AND VIEWING OURSELVES THROUGH THE WHITE LENS, WHITE PEOPLE HAVE TO CONFRONT THEIR RACISM AND UNLEARN ALL THIS SHIT THIS COLONIAL SOCIETY HAS TAUGHT THEM.
YOLISA: FACTS, SO WHAT IS YOUR GOAL BASICALLY RIGHT NOW WITH THE PETITION AND WITH LIKE SIGNATURES AND SHIT, BECAUSE WE’RE REACHING LIKE 200 SIGNATURES NOW? NTOKOZO: TO BE HONEST WITH YOU BRUH, I DON’T REALLY KNOW, RIGHT NOW I’M JUST THINKING OF WAYS FOR THIS TO BECOME A CONVERSATION. LIKE THIS ISN’T MY PETITION, DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? THIS IS FOR US. I’M NEW TO THE WHOLE ORGANIZER/ACTIVISM SHIT SO I’M JUST KINDA LEARNING AS I GO ALONG. I’M JUST TRYING TO REACH ENOUGH PEOPLE AND HAVE ENOUGH VOICES WHERE THEY CAN’T IGNORE US ANYMORE. LIKE RIGHT NOW IN SOUTH AFRICA THESE ARE STILL SORT OF NICHE CONVERSATIONS, IF WE LOOK IN AMERICA, LIKE THIS IS MAINSTREAM CONVERSATIONS NOW AND I THINK THE FURTHER WE GET AWAY FROM THE GENERATIONS OF PEOPLE THAT LIVED THROUGH APARTHEID, THE MORE WE’RE GONNA TURN UP. THE NIGGAS IN HIGH SCHOOL RIGHT NOW ARE THE ONES THAT I’M COUNTING ON TO JOIN THE FIGHT WHEN ITS TIME. YOLISA: I FEEL YOU, LIKE AS YOUNG PEOPLE WE’RE MORE ABOUT THE LIBERATION AND THE OLD NIGGAS SEEM TO JUST BE TRYING TO GET TO THEIR BREAD. NTOKOZO: LIKE MY HOMIE LWANDILE SAID TO ME, “THEY’RE JUST HAPPY TO BE PLAYING THE GAME, IT DOESN’T MATTER THAT ITS RIGGED AGAINST US”, AND THAT’S FACTS BRUH, IT GOES BACK TO LIVING THROUGH THE LENS OF WHITE SOCIETY. IT’S REALLY UP TO US AT THIS POINT, 2020 WAS SUPER IMPORTANT. YOLISA: FOR REAL, 2020 WAS NEEDED. NTOKOZO: LIKE I WAS WATCHING THIS MOVIE LA HAINE AND THERE WAS THIS QUOTE THAT HIT ME HARD WHERE THE GUY SAYS “SOCIETY IS LIKE A MAN JUMPING OFF A SKYSCRAPER, ON HIS WAY DOWN HE SAYS SO FAR SO GOOD, SO FAR SO GOOD, BUT IT’S NOT ABOUT HOW YOU FALL, IT’S ABOUT HOW YOU LAND” AND SOCIETY HAS BEEN FALLING ALL THIS TIME THINKING IT WAS FLYING BUT 2020 IS WHEN IT LANDED, IT HAS TO BE DEATH TO THE OLD IDEAS AND THERE NEEDS TO BE NEW ONES TO REPLACE THEM. YOLISA: DEEP, THAT’S TRUE BRUH NTOKOZO: BUT IT’S DISHEARTENING TO THINK ABOUT HOW WE DON’T HAVE THE LEADERS TO BACK RIGHT NOW, LIKE WHO DO WE VOTE FOR? YOU LOOK AT THE AMERICAN KIDS AND THEY COULD GET BEHIND A BERNIE SANDERS, BUT IT JUST FEELS LIKE WE HAVE NO ONE TO LOOK TO. YOLISA: FACTS, HOPEFULLY WITH THE BILL THAT THEY’VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT WHERE YOU CAN RUN AS AN INDIVIDUAL WITHOUT A PARTY, WE CAN ACTUALLY GET SOME NEW VOICES AND NEW PEOPLE THAT WE CAN BACK. NTOKOZO: YEAH HOPEFULLY, BUT RIGHT NOW, I’M JUST TRYING TO DO THE WORK AND LOOK TO CREATE A BETTER FUTURE, IT’S UP TO US. YOU THINK WE SHOULD END THIS NOW? [LAUGHS] YOLISA: [LAUGHS] YEAH, I THINK WE COVERED EVERYTHING. NTOKOZO: LOVE YOU DAWG