8x10 A Por t r a i t O f G r ac e
Lucas Miles
Wants a Revolution Good News and Cheese Sandwiches Scott Hayes
What to do with the over-churched Clint Byars
We’re on a Mission from God Stephanie Salisbury
His Love is Loud
Stephanie Salisbury
Fall 2013
Remember
register for this year’s Oasis Grace Conference
October 2nd-4th
Letter From the Editor Dear Readers, Real people, real life, real grace – that’s what you’ll find within the pages of 8x10: A Picture of Grace, the newest quarterly grace-focused publication from The Oasis Network For Churches. I have to admit, it’s a little exposing to have a photo of yourself on the cover of a magazine, but I wanted to begin this issue by modeling the level of transparency and honesty within the movement of grace that we hope to portray in subsequent issues of 8x10. It’s my intent that this doesn’t just become another religious magazine, but a celebration of grace at work in people. From recording artists to pastors, single moms to politicians, grace is at work in individuals’ lives and everyone has a message to share and a story to unveil. In addition to this, I hope that this humble publication could provide some much needed direction to the ‘grace movement’. Through resources, teaching articles, and product information, 8x10 is full of information you can trust. In this first issue, Clint Byars helps us to navigate through the pains of being ‘over-churched’, Scott Hayes shows us the difference between ‘good advice’ and ‘good news’, Stephanie Salisbury helps us catch up with former American Idol semi-finalist Joanna Beasley, and also pens our cover story, an honest question and answer with me discussing the Oasis Network’s role in the gospel revolution. I hope you enjoy this first issue of 8x10. I want to encourage you to send us feedback, so please feel free to contact me at my email address below. Lucas Miles Senior Editor Lucas@oasnet.org www.oasnet.org
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cott Hayes is the founding and lead pastor of Oasis East Lansing Church in Michigan. He communicates in churches, Bible schools, non-profit organizations, and businesses, and has been featured on television both nationally and internationally. He is a co-founder of the Oasis Grace Association and is most passionate about sharing on the topics of God’s goodness, church planting, leadership and finding freedom from sexual addiction and pornography. Connect with Scott on Twitter (@ScottJHayes) or through www.oasisel.com.
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tephanie J. Salisbury is an inspirational writer and freelance editor based in Middlebury, Indiana. Her column, A Journey of Reinvention, has been printed in the Niles Daily Star and the Good Neighbor News, and her blog has been linked to the Oakland Press. You can find Stephanie and A Journey of Reinvention on Facebook, on Twitter (@sjstowe), and at www.AJourneyofReinvention.com. Besides writing, Stephanie enjoys Michigan football, jigsaw puzzles, and spending time with her husband, Stephen.
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lint Byars is Pastor of Forward Church in Atlanta, Georgia and the author several books including an award winning novel entitled The Book of Creation. Clint’s dramatic deliverance and salvation is chronicled in the book Devil Walk. “I simply want to inspire people to trust God, because He is always good and trustworthy.” You can find Clint’s blog online at www. ForwardMinistries.org.
Speakers:
Forward:
Grace in Motion October 2-4, 2013, Granger, IN
Life is about moving forward. Join in one of the most influential and largest gatherings of grace ministries from all over the nation. This relevant 3 day event will feature life-giving sessions by Lucas and Krissy Miles, Andrew Wommack, Dr. Jim Richards, Ryan Rufus, Keith and Mary Hudson, Clint Byars, Scott Hayes, Josh Miles, Dan Gariepy,
Worship:
James Wood, Paul Donnan, Brett Roberts, and others, as well as music by Joanna Beasley and The Oasis Worship Band. We invite you today to make an Investment in yourself and your ministry by joining us in October at the Oasis Grace Conference.
To register visit: www.oasisgraceconference.com 2
Good News And Cheese Sandwiches By Scott Hayes
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hen I was 9 years old, my mother opened my eyes to a culinary marvel: the ‘Cheese Toasty’ or, as they are more well-known by uneducated sandwich amateurs, the ‘Grilled Cheese’. While I was, and still am, thankful for her advice about the proper procedure to creating a superlative cheese sandwich, I later learned there is a big difference between the experience of making sandwiches and the experience of a life in Christ.
Growing Up in the Kitchen As I grew up around the kitchen, my mom took the time to show me the finer points of making those delicious sandwiches, including the best way to handle the bread, the butter, the fake cheese, the hot griddle and how to cut the sandwich diagonally into those cool-looking little triangles. She offered the advice and instruction I needed. Through her repeated demonstration, time, instruction and my practice, I learned to make my own sandwiches, by reproducing her method, just like I was supposed to. I bought the right bread, buttered it like this, put the fake cheese there, flipped it like so, cut it like that and had great sandwich-making success. I still love those sandwiches and teach my kids the same technique I learned all those years ago. 3
Growing Up in Religion I am not sure whether it's what I heard or what I thought I heard, but I also was taught at an early age to navigate religion just like the kitchen. Like making a good sandwich, the finer points of successful Christian living came down to following simple instructions. Just as I learned a method for sandwich-making, I learned in religion that there is also a procedure that ensures success. Do this thing, never do that thing, think like this, don’t think like that, flip the words like so. I was taught that following good instruction was the key to religious success. But, unlike the delicious cheese sandwiches, I found out that such an approach to Christian life was far from successful or satisfying. I just couldn’t figure out why.
I was taught that following good instruction was the key to religious success. The Difference Between ‘Good Advice’ and ‘Good News’ Then, in the summer of 1999, God came and
found me when I didn’t deserve to be found. During those warm summer nights in Detroit, it hit me for the first time: successfully knowing God was not about following advice, even if it was good moral advice designed to help you ‘do things right’. Knowing God is about responding to something called the Good News. The difference is immense and life-changing. Simply put, advice is instruction about what to do. News informs you of what has already been done.
“Advice is counsel about something that hasn’t happened yet, but you can do something about it. News is a report about something that has happened which you can’t do anything about because it has been done for you… all you can do is to respond to it.”
families. Here’s the transformation of the consciousness and here are the mandatory laws, rules and the regulations. Marksmen over here and horsemen over there. We must save ourselves!’” That’s the enormous difference between advice and news. Every other world religion or faith system sends us advice through advisers telling us how they think God wants us to perform to earn our way to salvation and freedom: do this, do that, flip it like this, cook it just so, and turn it at exactly the right time. Then you will save yourself. But the Gospel of Grace, God’s Good News, sends us a message that our salvation and freedom has already been won for us through the person of Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for you and me on Calvary. This Good News doesn’t come from a messenger, but from God himself! The King is speaking directly to us. The Christian Church does not simply proclaim instruction or advice on moral living; we proclaim good – unbelievably good – news that the battle has been won! The King has been victorious! The day has been won on our behalf! We are invited to celebrate at the table of unbroken fellowship with God Himself when we respond and personally accept the Good News of the Gospel.
He continued, with the following story as an example:
How Do You Experience God?
“Here’s a king and he goes into a battle against an invading army to defend his land. If the king defeats the invading army, he sends back to the capital city his personal messengers. The messengers are spokesmen for the King. And they are very happy messengers! That’s because the King is sending back good news-ers. And what they come back with is a report of wonderful events. They come back and they say, ‘The enemy has been defeated and it’s been all done. Therefore, respond with joy and now go about your lives in this peace which has been achieved for you.’ “But if the King doesn’t defeat the invading army, and the invading army breaks through, the King sends back his spokesmen, his military advisers, who say, ‘Marksmen over here and the horseman over there. We will have to fight for our lives… here are the rites, here are the rituals, here’s what you must do to be safe personally and to save yourselves and your
Do you fight for your spiritual life? Do you labor daily with various deeds and disciplines imposed by well-intentioned others? Or do you enjoy fellowship with the King who has already done it all on your behalf? I still love what is possibly the greatest culinary marvel of our age; the perfectly-produced ‘Cheese Toasty’! But I must say, accepting the Good News of Christ and experiencing God through His victory on my behalf instead of blindly conforming to moral advice… that is the most delicious and fulfilling truth I have ever tasted.
Simply put, advice is instruction about what to do. News informs you of what has already been done. Years later, the critical distinction between advice and news was clarified further when I read an old sermon series on 1 Corinthians 15. The writer discussed it this way:
Accepting the Good News of Christ ...the most delicious and fulfilling truth I have ever tasted. 4
Mission From God Lucas Miles Talks about The Blues Brothers and The Message of Grace By Stephanie J. Salisbury
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ne of the first things that takes me by surprise every time I meet with him is that Lucas Miles is a normal guy. He’s not all pastor-y and dictatorial; he just talks to me like I’m a fellow human being, a child of God, no more and no less than he is. We can talk about The Blues Brothers (perhaps one of the greatest movies of all time) in one breath, and Jesus Christ (most assuredly the greatest man who ever lived) in the next. How refreshing to be able to be myself around a man of God. In the vein of The Blues Brothers, one of Lucas’s common threads throughout our conversation is, “We’re putting the band back together.” When I asked about this, the answer was simple – you see radicals pulling together for their skewed visions and causes all across the globe. It’s time for Christians to band together and start getting the right message out there for the whole world to see and hear: the message of Grace.
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I had the chance to sit down and talk with Lucas for awhile and really pick his brain about this message and what it means for our community and beyond. Here is just some of what I learned.
Stephanie Salisbury: Lucas, I know
enough about you to know that you’re on a mission, but can you tell me about it?
Lucas Miles: It’s about connectivity, really.
Rallying around a message, realizing that we can do more together than we can by ourselves. This is what we’re all about – and this is what brings about a revolution.
SS: I’m singing ‘You say you want a revolution…’
in my head, now. So, that’s what you’re starting? A revolution? LM: I’d say it’s already started, but not in the rebellious sense that some might think. I like to think of it as a ‘love revolution’. Those familiar with what is being called ‘the message of grace’ will know what I’m referring to, but for those that might be new to the discussion – this revolution is really nothing more than a return to the teachings of Jesus and to salvation by grace through faith.
SS: That sounds like what the church has been saying for years. How is this different? LM: There are really two things to consider – theology and what I call ‘the practicalities’, or the ‘walking out what we believe’. Theologically, few argue with the concept of grace, but in the practicalities is where it gets messy. We always say it like this: religion says, “First you have to behave, then you have to believe, and we’ll think about letting you belong.” But that’s upside down. The gospel message is different. It says, “First you belong because you are a child of God, we hope you come to believe because it will change your life, and we’ll worry about you behaving later because we trust the grace of God to teach you.” SS: You’re against ‘religion’, then, but not in a rebellious way. Can you clarify? LM: There’s a difference between a rebel and a revolutionary. Rebels are known for what they’re against. Revolutionaries are known for what they’re for. There are some out there touting an anti-establishment form of grace – but that’s not us. I love the church, organization, structure… these are all tools for effectively sharing the message and methods through which we can meaningfully partner with one another. SS: So, then, what does partnership look like for
you?
LM: The short answer? Get to know each other,
build a level of trust, and see if you have the same hearts. Organizationally, there are dozens of ways to connect with the Oasis Network, but if we are talking church planters or pastors, then we send them through an assessment process, a battery of diagnostics and tests; we see what their ministry experience is, what they’re preparedness is for church planting in general, and we get their personality profiles. Then after all of that – we hang out – do life together.
SS: The hope is that it’s a good fit, but it probably isn’t, always? LM: It depends upon what people are looking for. Of course, there are plenty of inquiries that don’t materialize into a new church, but if people are really looking for real relationship – the majority of time, these people are a fit.
SS: How do people usually find you – find the Oasis Network? LM: Typically when people come to us – when they find the Oasis Network – almost every single person starts describing where they’re at and what they’re doing. Nine times out of ten it’s the ‘prophet in a cave’ story. They are isolated, all alone, and there’s no one else teaching the message anywhere near them. Most people’s fear is that they are the only one left. That’s the beauty of what happens when people find our network. It’s exciting to know that there are a lot of other people out there like you. You’re not alone! There’s an association of people ready to embrace, support, and walk with you. We know we can do this better together than we ever could on our own. SS: That level of trust is a pretty big deal, and it’s
not easy for everyone…am I right? LM: That’s true. People are often in fear of banding together, unfortunately. They’ve been hurt too many times in the past. As people come to the message of Grace, one of the obstacles is what we have dubbed, ‘Post-Traumatic Church Disorder’. They’ve been burnt out or beat up by the church, so anytime relationship or connectivity is presented to them, their fear is that, ‘I’m just going to get hurt again’. The fact is, they probably will because people are people. But, within that is love. There’s always a risk with love and trust, but real relationship is about pushing through. What you have at the end isn’t conflict-free, but a level of synergy that you know even difficult conflict can’t separate. We’re headed in the same direction regardless of the ups and downs we experience along the way. As I mentioned before, the call or message we’re trying to send out is that we are so much better off together than by ourselves, and what you’re doing on a local level can be enhanced by linking arms with people around you to take it all the way to a global platform. It’s refreshing for us to hear that there is a ‘we’ in a much greater sense. Not just one person, not just a church, but an entire network.
It’s refreshing for us to hear that there is a ‘we’ in a much greater sense. Not just one person, not just a church, but an entire network. 6
SS: What are the obstacles on a larger scale? LM: Legalism is the obvious enemy of grace. Sim-
ply put, legalism is the belief that we are either good enough or sufficient enough to do this on our own. It’s nothing more than self-righteousness. That’s the freeing thing about grace – it’s just not about me. So it becomes easy to admit your faults and walk in humility. Beyond that, perhaps the next biggest obstacle is extrapolation in regards to the message. One of the obstacles we have to overcome as a whole is the temptation to go further than the original intent of the true message. A lot of people have come into this ‘message’ in recent years through some prominent speakers. Joseph Prince, in particular, has a way of creating these ‘wow’ moments: he’ll be teaching through something in the Old Testament and then show how that’s a picture of Christ, and no one’s ever seen it before. It blows their mind. He’s a very powerful teacher. We, as pastors, get this desire (not necessarily a bad desire) to want to create those moments for our own people. Over time, it can produce something in us as leaders where we feel that we have to keep extrapolating the Word in order to create a new ‘high’ for the people listening to us. I mean, who doesn’t want to teach like Prince? The fear though is that just the gospel by itself isn’t enough to create excitement so, over time, this desire starts introducing some abuses in the message or skewed versions of the message. Universalism and ultimate reconciliation are really a response to the message of Grace. People started Photo by: A Love Worth Telling
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hearing that God’s so good, God loves you unconditionally, He has forgiveness for you, our justification and righteousness is provided through the cross – eventually, someone comes in and says, ‘God’s even better than that! He’s saved everybody!’ It starts shifting the message a little at a time so, eventually, it’s a copy of a copy of a copy. To demonstrate what this does, I’ve given a message where I take a photo of my wife Krissy and I, then photocopy the copy, and copy that… eventually, fifty copies down, you can’t tell the original image. It’s just a blurred picture. That’s what we’ve done with the gospel. There are those teaching that copy of a copy of a copy; it sounds intelligent and attractive and really good, but it’s actually created this gospel of force where people get to Heaven whether they like it or not. It removes free will and destroys love, because love always gives a choice.
SS: Awesome. So, when you aren’t busy starting a revolution, tell us what else the Oasis Network does? LM: In addition to church planting, we do everything from life coaching to short term missions to music management. We also focus a lot of energy on producing grace-oriented resources, like books, teaching series, and more. SS: Any other thoughts that you would like to leave everyone with? LM: We need to work together. Those that are against what we’re saying, they’re finding ways to work and strategize together. Yes, there is an enemy kingdom of darkness, strategizing to oppose the true message. The Church has been in legalism for so long that, now that Grace has been awakened in this world, the enemy’s going, ‘You want Grace?’ And he’s trying to take it to the other extreme where we throw out all wisdom in the midst of everything we’ve ever held to, and we start challenging everything in Scripture. It can become dangerous. Grace doesn’t remove personal responsibility. It sees value in discipline, in building relationships and organization and working together. One of my mentors says, ‘The path is not the mountain’. That’s something that’s really stuck with me. A lot of times we try to make the path into the destination, because it’s easier that way. It’s like that saying, ‘If you lived here, you’d be home right now’. It sounds great if you don’t want to do the rest of the drive, but the path is
just a process to get us to the destination: the summit, relationship with God, intimacy with our Creator, walking with Him, knowing Him, being like Him, having fellowship with Him. The path we get there on is Grace – not performance, legalism, or any other means. Sometimes, we want to stop on the path and begin worshiping a message which can lead to a lot of abuses. The summit – Christ Himself – is bigger than the summation of the message. We’re trying to provide bumper lanes to keep people centered on the Gospel while allowing them freedom of expression. We’re trying to call people back together, to bring them out of isolation. It might be dangerous, but let’s trust each other again, work together again, recover some lost ground, continue to see people set free of legalism, but not throw ourselves recklessly into lawlessness or Universalism as an extreme. Grace teaches us to say ‘no’ to ungodliness; it comes in and becomes the motivation to live in a certain way and produce these things. We’re looking for people who get that, who understand that, and are ready to work together in a whole new way. It’s not about ‘doing church’ – it’s about changing the world and our communities. God has put us in a unique position: as far as we know, we’re the only radical Grace church-planting network in the world. (I hope I’m wrong… I hope there are others out there doing what we’re doing and we just haven’t heard of each other, but as far as we know we’re the only one.) Eventually, someone finds us and begins asking what this process looks like. We get calls from all over the world; a lot of times, we can help. Sometimes we just encourage – they have a specific direction but aren’t ready; they’re still in Post-Traumatic Church Disorder phase, and not sure they can trust an organization yet, but they’re flirting with the idea. To us, the goal is to utilize wisdom in order to innovate what we do and how we do it to get gospel out most effectively. We have to be willing to use any means necessary to share this message and shape that goal in a way where we can reach the maximum number of people.
Photo by: A Love Worth Telling
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Love is Loud
His
An Interview with Joanna Beasley By Stephanie J. Salisbury
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orn in 1986 in Memorial Hospital, South Bend, young Joanna had a gift. It wasn’t until she was 16, though, that things really started to fall into place. A television sensation called American Idol had just finished its first season, and Joanna felt a sort of kinship with the winner, Kelly Clarkson. “You can tell that she knows she has something to offer people, but it’s not in a cocky sort of way. It’s like she’s saying, ‘I believe in what I do, I believe in what I say, I believe I can influence people, I love doing it, and I know that people are responding and it’s making a difference’”. In those words, I found that Joanna didn’t just describe her feelings toward Kelly Clarkson – without meaning to, she actually described herself. The decision to audition for American Idol wasn’t something Joanna had really planned. “It was just offthe-cuff; my sister called me and said, ‘you should do this!’” The experience was really a blessing for her, she reminisces. “The judges were wonderful, really encouraging and nice, and all the contestants were cool and supportive of one another.” Soon, she was a semi-finalist on the show and within just three years, at the age of 19, Joanna released her first album, My World. She says, “My first album I love because it’s fun! It’s pop/rock, but has some really strong guitars and every song is really driven. It ends with this amazing ballad that’s really powerful, talking about the road less traveled – totally my life those first three years of me starting music!”
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In the upcoming years, Joanna grew a great deal emotionally and spiritually, and the revelations she’s had show through in her music as well. She is the first artist representative for the Global Pastor Outreach and is the Director of Worship for the Oasis Network, coordinating worship resources and teams for churches, events and conferences. She has hosted Steelroots Top Ten Countdown on television, and shared the stage with such artists as Chris Tomlin, Mercy Me, Natalie Grant, Michael W. Smith and many more. She has performed at ‘Celebrate Freedom’, the largest Christian music festival in the world, and at Tim Storey’s ‘The Study’, a Hollywood-based bible study for entertainment personalities. In addition to that, she has also written songs with Chris McClarney, Krissy Norhdoff, and Dustin Burnett. Joanna married Kerry Beasley and released her second album, Patiently Waiting, in 2009. Flash forward to 2013 – Joanna’s third album, Loud Love, has just been released and the message couldn’t be any clearer. “Not only have we realized that God is constantly speaking for us and through us and wants the best for us but, with this album, we realize we can always come to Him no matter where we’re at in our lives. He loves us independently of what we’ve done – He doesn’t give it and take it away based on how much we’ve done right or done wrong. We’re singing back to God what He already says about Himself and about us. The more we say it, the more we’re going to believe it. His love is true, loud, unconditional and constantly pursuing us, never letting go. There is never a point you can get to where God will C 2013 Joanna Beasley Music say, ‘I’m done with you’. Fantastic news for all of us, of course – but what a phenomenal outreach for those who aren’t really familiar with worship music! What Joanna goes on to say is almost a love song in and of itself: “The main goal of our ministry right now is pretty simple – we want people to know that God’s not mad at them, that He loves them and He’s better than
they think He is. We want to make Jesus famous because He’s the only one who can change us, and the only way He can change us is through His love. I know that, and I experience it daily; but it’s so hard to retrain your brain and heart. Your heart is imprinted through your belief system and experiences, but if you’re constantly renewing your mind to the truth, you can experience that freedom a lot easier. We have a hard time not giving into our emotions, so we have to retrain ourselves: listen to music, spend some time with a good friend, listen to a sermon… that’s what we’re trying to do with this album. It’s a resource to renew your mind, to encourage you to believe the truth of God’s love for all of us.” And as for Joanna’s relationship with Jesus? “He’s made me fall in love with Him even more, which I continue to feel is impossible, but each day I keep realizing
how good He is. Each day, I start feeling the love He has for us toward other people and that’s been so cool; I see how my heart’s changed and I love that. I love hanging out with people, love who they are, see so much good and beauty in people and really care about them and I know that’s the Lord. I see that growing in my heart, that I’m becoming more patient, loving, understanding, giving, and I have grace for people – it’s His love for me that’s changed my heart to be able to do that.” That’s the good news, and it’s available to each of us, every day of our lives. It’s time to share that news with others, and Loud Love is a great stepping stone on that path. For more information on Joanna Beasley and her newest album Loud Love, visit www.JoannaBeasley.com!
Photo by: A Love Worth Telling
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Order your copy today at www.newnaturepublications.com!
Oasis Couples’ Getaway February 14th - 16th South Bend, IN www.Oasnet.org Save the date
Dealing with the Over-Churched By Clint Byars
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often have people come to our gathering that have recently left another congregation, usually because they didn't feel connected, they were abused, or they were controlled. I see a myriad of responses: people are angry they've never heard the message we’re spreading, people are happy that I'm not manipulating them for money, people fall in love with Jesus again. There is a particular response that I found confusing the first two or three years as a senior pastor. I’ve now come to call it the ‘OverChurched Syndrome’. At first, I thought that people who with this particular mindset were just ‘religious’, but there's a subtle difference to be perceived here that I hope will help you in your church as well.
the Over-churched Syndrome 13
In our environment, we don't seek to control people. In fact, we promote just the opposite. Our leadership team works from the philosophy that people should be free to express God naturally, according to their own passions. Too often, churches develop an overly-defined culture in which people have to mold their passions to fit into an aspect of the Pastor’s vision. I believe, instead, that we should find out how people want to express God and use our organization to build people rather than using people to build our organization. In this kind of environment, there is no ladder of leadership to climb, there are no unspoken rules that people must figure out, and there is no culture to which they must conform. Because we don't have this ladder of leadership or an inner circle to squeeze into, those with the Over-Churched Syndrome don’t know
what to do! They want to be told what to do. They want a program to fit into. A prior lack of freedom in our churches has not served people well. This leaves us with genuine relationships and a group of people that are passionately growing in grace. This is where the confusion came in for me. I have found that victims of the Over-Churched Syndrome often negatively view a non-controlling, free environment as a place lacking in opportunity. I hear comments like, 'I'm not sure what I want to do’ nearly always followed by ‘I'm not sure this is where God wants me’. While people are free to leave for wherever else they may choose, I know that, if they stay here, they will experience freedom and joy in Christ, perhaps for the first time. I began to ask them about their passions and what they want to do with their lives. A typical answer is something like, ‘I just want to do what God wants for me’. That's code for, ‘I don't know who I am apart from the church telling me what to do’. I began to see a connection. Over-Churched people are uncomfortable in an environment where they are not told specifically what to do.
Over-Churched people are uncomfortable in an environment where they are not told specifically what to do. They have been part of the other type of system for so long that they've never developed a personal ministry. In processing this issue, I would sometimes feel like I was failing them in not helping them connect to ‘God's purpose’ for their lives. If we were to look for blame, we could find plenty on both parts – the church system as well as the individual – but I'd rather look for a solution. Once I recognized the root issue of their dependency on being controlled, I sought the Lord about how to best help these people. I felt like the response was to leave them alone. The way to set these people free from their molded religious past is to be very intentional about not telling them what to do. It’s true that they
may leave your church; however, they may also learn to think for themselves for the first time and truly discover their purpose. These are people genuinely seeking God, they've just never had the opportunity in a church setting to be free – to be themselves and to make their own decisions. In follow-up conversations, I noticed sometimes they would begin to lean on me more than on the Holy Spirit. I would back off and simply have a regular conversation rather than flipping into ‘Pastor Mode’ and begin teaching them something. (You Pastors know what I'm talking about: a good Pastor knows when to shut up and inspire people to trust God.) As Pastors, we need to resist the urge to be the Holy Spirit for people and just focus on developing the friendship.
As Pastors, we need to resist the urge to be the Holy Spirit for people and just focus on developing the friendship. A few people with the Over-Churched Syndrome left our church two or three times before finally realizing that they could just be themselves and enjoy being part of the family without having to find their place of service. A heart yielded to the Holy Spirit is much more effective than any discipleship program we can develop. Leave them alone and trust God. Certainly, teach them about becoming empowered by grace from the heart, but let the Holy Spirit do His job. Let's trust the Holy Spirit for people more than we trust ourselves for them. In doing so, we will build healthy churches and people will experience a level of freedom and spiritual maturity they never before knew possible.
A heart yielded to the Holy Spirit is much more effective than any discipleship program we can develop.
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