ROLE OF NBA IN IMPLEMENTATION OF NEW EDUCATION POLICY OF INDIA

Dr. Vaneeta Aggarwal, Founder of Bizemag Media had opportunity to talk to Dr. KK Aggarwal, Chairman National Board of Accreditation, India

Here is the video link: https://youtu.be/tCDNAyYiI58 and the interview

Dr. Vaneeta Aggarwal 00:01

Good morning sir welcome to Bizemag media and L’strategyq advisors. We welcome you and thank you for sparing your time for this discussion upon role of NBA and into implementation of NEP. Sorry another audio is coming, I have to stop that Thank you Sorry for the inconvenience. For my audience, which is mostly comprising of higher education professionals, you already know about Dr. KK Agarwal, who is chairman of National Board of Accreditation India, and plays a key role into founding several Institute’s all across India. I will not go into biography- detailed biography of Sir, because we all well know about this great personality into Indian higher education skies.

Dr. KK Aggarwal 01:05

Thank You so Much VaneetaDr.

Vaneeta Aggarwal 01:07

Sir, my first question to you is now that new education policy has been drafted, then passed, and now is in the process of implementation across higher education as well as school education. What do you think would be changes in the accreditation process, in order to implement the new education policy there are two things which I like to point out :1) accreditation over the period of years is going to be mandatory. For example, the new education policy clearly says that the new norm of regulation will be accreditation there’s this intense meaning thereby, that an institution which is not accredited, will not be able to stay for long time. So, that is one very major change. Reason is simple, because accreditation is normally an exercise which will take after the institution has been in existence for 4 or 5-6 years. So obviously, the basic parameters have been setting. On the other hand, the initial approvals are normally given on Greenfield so therefore, at that time to assess the quality of everything is just not possible and therefore to give meaning to accreditation as a sort of permission to exist after you have been tried out for five six years makes much more sense. Number one, 2) So if you have to if you have to accredit all such institutions, which are at the moment about 50,000 in numbers in higher education, even if the institution’s going for crusting, which is the requirement of the new education policy, because we really believe an institution which has 100 students at all, or 200 students at all, cannot really bring in the quality, particularly from the point of view of private higher education, because it can’t even break even to point sufficient number of teachers and all that, but even if all the clustering takes place, still The work volume will be very, very high. Therefore, in the new education policy, we have conceived of a body which is called national accreditation concept, which into earlier will mean that we may have more than two accreditation agencies in the country. At the moment, we have only two NAC and NBA, but we probably will have to increase many more to take care of the law. And third point is in the national education policy. We clearly say the goal of education will be outcome based education, which has been the philosophy of NBA all through its existence. Because we do believe input based education really doesn’t ensure the results, outcome based education where you first define the expectations of a graduate and then work backwards. That has been the philosophy And that’s a third point which has been re-emphasizing, NDP. So I think from these three angles, the role of accreditation is going to be very, very strong.

Dr. Vaneeta Aggarwal 05:11

And I think it should be because unless accreditation is there and is made mandatory, many institutions, which just run to have some sort of, you know, system

of education, but not done in a proper manner, in appropriately, in order to have a healthy teaching learning environment at place, this will enforce the institutions to upgrade themselves also.

Dr. KK Aggarwal 05:39

That’s perfectly fine. Because, see, accreditation is nothing like rocket science. So when I have seen, even if you’re just above average institution, doing some basic things, in theory, you get a critic, it’s not that we want something very, super from you for a accreditation. But if you don’t have even those basic parameters, for example, our six basic parameters are do you have enough number of teachers? do you have qualified teachers? Do you have reasonable placement? Do you have sufficiently qualified faculty? Are you getting sufficient number of students to be admitted to your institution? So these are some basic parameters only, which we are testing in the first place. Now, if you can’t meet even those are, then I would be making a probably strong statement. I said, What right you have got to exist if you can’t make even basic parameters. And I invariably tell the institutions when I address our success rate, for those who meet the basic pre qualifiers is about 85%-90%. So it’s not that the rejection rate is very high. But the institutions themselves know that they are not worthy of accreditation, they don’t even apply. Because they cannot. And I invariably say why do you expect parents and students who trust you, when you don’t trust yourself? So therefore, you’re very right, that accreditation will have to be mandatory. It’s a different matter that we might have to go in for the accreditation in the sense that Okay, first cycle way allows you to get accreditation, giving you higher targets for the next cycle and so on and so far.

Dr. Vaneeta Aggarwal 07:26

And sir what are the different kinds of accreditation as I was going through the website of NBA, and times

Dr. KK Aggarwal 07:35

I heard a word or only to one which call as binary accreditation, which is yes or no. And secondaries graded accreditation, in binary accreditation, we just say either you are accredited, or you are not accredited. But in the graded accreditation, we either give grades or we get accreditation for three years, five years, six years to try to differentiate. Ah, word over it is believed that finally you should go to binary accreditation, yes or no. But in the intervening years, probably we will have to go to credit accreditation, but all institutions, because if I have the same standards for CIT, an average private engineering college, or same standards for aims, or a private medical college, things may not be easy to work out. So we’ll probably have to go for graded accreditation at least for 1015 years, before we stabilise the system to at least a minimum acceptable level. And finally, it will have to be binary identities.

Dr. Vaneeta Aggarwal 08:42Right? And what is this Washington a code?

Dr. KK Aggarwal 08:45

Oh, Washington, Washington accord. Anita is only for engineering education, number one. Number two, it is a sort of MOU, which is which was signed in Washington therefore it’s called Washington accord. It’s a number of countries. When it started, it was six or seven. Today it is 21 countries which are part of Washington accord. And every year some new country enters. And the basic philosophy is that the 31 countries which form the signatories to Washington accord, ensure that engineering education in their country is equivalent to all these countries. And Washington accord has countries like USA, Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand, Malaysia, etc, etc. So India became a signatory to this Washington accord about 10 years ago, or nine years ago. And philosophy is if a graduate from the NBA is a member of the Washington accord. Now if a graduate from an NBA accredited institution goes to any of these 20 countries He will be allowed to practice engineering that is the advantage because we 21 countries we meet every year and find out what are the changes possible in engineering education and all that. For example, last time we met, we we did consciously decide to work on. For example, should creativity be made a formal requirement, should Sustainable Development be made a formal requirement of engineering education. So, it’s a dynamic process. But advantage of this is that once you get NBA accreditation, you really don’t have to get any other accreditation from the world.

Dr. Vaneeta Aggarwal 10:45

So basically, it is smooth transition for a student who has done engineering from an NBA credit Institute to be able to go to any of these member countries, or to pursue research

Dr. KK Aggarwal 10:58

That is one and second is our confidence that our engineering standards are equivalent to best in the world because the 21 countries which include I have told you the best country, the most developed countries, now, if you’re striving to give the same standards, that obviously gives you the confidence on quality of education.

Dr. Vaneeta Aggarwal 11:21

And so, is there any plan to extend this kind of arrangement for STEM subjects like not only engineering and like economics is very highly take like, I should say, is the highly prioritised subject of study for many Indian students nowadays. So, are there any plans of extending such kind of arrangement for these studies subject also

Dr. KK Aggarwal 11:47

obviously, Vaneeta, there is I am talking about the Washington accord because NBA is concerned only with engineering education or architecture, education or pharmacy education. Therefore, we deal with Washington, but there are some & several arrangements like this, for example, an architectural education there is another arrangement like this, which we are in line with workI and I hope very soon we will have an agreement for architecture education also the word level. Similarly, NAC has entered into another international arrangement, which is applicable for different subjects or different arrangements are there at the word, so we will have to explore many of those to go into because accreditation worldwide is believe has to be programmed by the accreditation, because the institutional accreditation is not the highest level of quality now, because no institution can have all programmes of the same high quality at any point of time. And therefore word over his programme is equivocation. So we will have to explore programme wise international arrangements, but there are many such arrangements. And once we go to NSE, we’ll probably have to find out all such and become members upon those.

Dr. Vaneeta Aggarwal 13:07

That’s great to hear. And Sir my next question was, as we talked about, accreditation is also one of the basic parameters, well qualified faculty members. So how do we, you know, manage? Or how do we put a kind of stamping on who is good qualified and who is not so good qualified, for example, if I take example of PhD, we know certain universities in certain Institutes, tier one institutes definitely

they take great pains when they award PhD to a student, and there is a great lot of international research, which goes into it. But how do we maintain that same quality into tier two institutes also, who are rolling out PhDs.

Dr. KK Aggarwal 13:54

Aa, I agree with your observation Vaneeta. And we are concerned with the talents because I am aware that some of the institutions are going low in quality. First thing I like to clarify is Washington accord is only for tier one institutions. So when we talk about international comparison, these institutions that you are talking of are out of the picture at all, is only for tier one institutions to be in there. Secondly, we will have to gradually try to work on this. Because why it happened was because when PhD became compulsory qualification, there was a mad race for acquiring PhD. And that’s what happened. So whenever, I personally believe, we should plan long term, we should have thought 50 years ago that we will need so many PhDs and start working on this. But if we just think one fine morning, from next year, we need four times PhDs then something like this will happen is natural. So therefore, first thing, which I think iscountry should , education is not a short term planning proposal. Education has to be a long term planning proposal. So we should work out how many PhD really, well which institutions should be allowed, so on and so far. And then gradually, for example, earlier, we did it in system publications, now we insist on publications, then we insist on citation. So gradually, we will have to work on the quality of PhD. But I share your concern, we’ll have to still work more in this direction. Maybe in the near NEP, we have a another sort of body promise, which is National Research Foundation, when the National Research Foundation is set up, maybe we can give more meaningful quantifiable criteria to these things. But I repeat, we have to work this.

Dr. Vaneeta Aggarwal 15:57

And Sir, my last question is, Your journey has been inspiration to many. So like from an engineer, to an academic faculty member to founder of one of the biggest university in Delhi. Now to Chairman of NBA. How do you see it? And how do you inspire some of the higher education leaders now upcoming leaders, young leaders? what are the motivations? And what are the basic things that they should keep in mind to go on this kind of path, which this path is actually which tells me that it is a passionate about education? you have been passionate about education and building standards to education?

Dr. KK Aggarwal 16:50

Yeah, I agree Vaneeta. I think to be on a personal note, I think it is probably only once, when I defied my teachers who wanted me to join engineering profession, and

not become, my teacher did not want me to become a teacher. That was an unfortunate part of life. But I had to defy them, I had to tell them, that my passion is teaching allow me to do that. And after five, seven years of my success, they realised that I was meant for teaching. First of all, teaching Yes, it’s a profession. Like all other professions, you also need salary, you also need the support to your family and all that. But basically, if you don’t have passion, you can never be a good teacher, I think one of the essential attribute of a teacher will have to be either you have the important passion, or you learn to be passionate. Well, one can say whether it can be learned or not. And I believe a quote, which said that better than any other innovation of the last century is the statement that the attitudes can be changed. That’s an innovation higher than all scientific innovation, that your attitudes can be changed. So if you offer teaching, please develop a mission. And I whenever you do a second vocation and all that, I think only one sentence, if a teacher makes the students believe that he or she is there. Well, Bashar, I think everything else is taken care of. Our first responsibility as a teacher is to make all my students believe that whatever I do, even if I punish them, even when I fail them, I’m there wellwisher. And there may not be time, but I can count countless incidents of my life, where I dismissed the student for a year and still

is grateful to me, we failed I said if you fail your student you are doing your duty you are not punishing. So if you can imbibe that confidence, and for that, number one, you have to be passionate. Number two, you have to be dutiful. Number three, you have to be totally impartial. You cannot be partisan, and then passionate. And number four, you must be keeping yourself up to date so that you can inspire your next generation. If you are not up to date, you can never inspire your next generation. So if you invite these basic characteristics, I found it’s not a very difficult thing to do that and maybe extra factor God has been very kind to me to bless me that I can stay focus and I can probably help some others also to be motivated and inspire. I think that’s my good luck and I wish it stays with me.

Dr. Vaneeta Aggarwal 19:40

Thank you so much sir. And it was like hearing wisdom of pearls directly from the leader himself. And this will be one of my previous interviews for my Bizemag magazine and media. Thank you so much once again

Dr. KK Aggarwal 20:00

thank you Vaneeta and thank you Bizemag for giving me this opportunity I hope it serves the purpose Thank you very much