MILWAUKEE ORAL HISTORY PROJECT The Reminiscences of Desmond Schuler
ART START Columbia University 2018
PREFACE The following oral history is the result of a recorded interview with Desmond Schuler conducted by David Castillo on May 8, 2018. This interview is part of the Milwaukee Oral History Project. The reader is asked to bear in mind that they are reading a verbatim transcript of the spoken word, rather than written prose.
Schuler – Session #1 – 3
ATC Interviewee: Desmond Schuler Interviewer: David Castillo
Session #1 Location: Milwaukee, WI Date: May 8, 2018
Q: Today's date is May the 8th, 2018. This is David Emmanuelle Castillo. I work with the Department of Black and Latino Male Achievement as a planning assistant and I am interviewing student Desmond Schuler from Washington High School in room 468, I believe. Desmond Schuler, I do have permission to use this interview for the project that we are working on, correct?
Schuler: Yes.
Q: Yes. Perfect. With that said, we're going to get this interview started. Going to ask you a question. Where are you from, originally?
Schuler: [00:00:36] Gary, Indiana.
Q: Gary, Indiana. Tell me a little bit more about that.
Schuler: [00:00:41] Well, Gary, Indiana is home of one of the greatest musicians, Michael Jackson. It's a place where—it used to have hope. But now, it's falling apart. Gary is a place
Schuler – Session #1 – 4 where I can go and call home, but it's also a place where you don't really want to be because it's really—we call it Scary Gary.
Q: Okay.
Schuler: [00:01:23] And it's Scary Gary—it used to have opportunities. But now, it's just a place where people are dying left and right. I believe Gary was the murder capital for, I think, three years.
Q: Okay.
Schuler: [00:01:41] But other than that, it's a sweet little town. It's fun to be in. You've just got to know the right spots.
Q: All right. So, that's where you're originally from.
Schuler: Right.
Q: So, you're talking about, like, Scary Gary. Tell me a little bit more about, like, what do you think caused those changes?
Schuler: [00:02:05] I think what caused the changes was the economy around the world around Gary. After Michael died, Gary really—that's when Gary fell apart, because all the money from
Schuler – Session #1 – 5 Michael's tours and his house viewings, that went into building up Gary. But once he died and those funds stopped, the city just fell apart.
Q: Okay. So, you talk about, like, something you mentioned and what you were saying is like a place to call home. I mean, you kind of said it, right? Like, that—for you, that's home. But, like, you kind of don't want to call it home. Milwaukee's currently your home. Could you say that, the same could apply to Milwaukee, Wisconsin?
Schuler: [00:03:00] I can, but then, at the same time, I can't because I'm here for a getaway because my pops, my dad, he saw the light in me and he didn't want me to fall down the wrong path. That's the reason why I'm here.
Q: Okay, okay. Tell me a little bit more about that.
Schuler: [00:03:33] I was—
[INTERRUPTION]
Q: Go ahead, go ahead.
Schuler: [00:03:56] It's—wait, what's [phonetic]—[laughs]
Schuler – Session #1 – 6 Q: So, you say your dad didn't want you to fall around the down path, which is—you were saying how this is a getaway—
Schuler: Right, right.
Q: —because your dad didn't want you to fall down the wrong path. So, I'm saying, like, tell me a little bit more about that.
Schuler: [00:04:14] Well, I'm not proud of it, but in Gary, I was starting to do things I had no business doing.
Q: Okay.
Schuler: [00:04:27] I was skipping school. My grades were decreasing. But when I came here, I saw the increase in my attendance at school. My grades went up. I'm not in the streets doing nothing I shouldn't be doing.
Q: Okay. So, when did you move out to Milwaukee? How long ago was this? Is this something that's relatively new?
Schuler: [00:04:55] Yes, I've been in Milwaukee for a year now.
Schuler – Session #1 – 7 Q: Oh, wow, okay. I didn't know that. I thought you'd been in Milwaukee for some time now. So, I mean, you got me real interested on this whole Gary conversation that you're talking about. I've seen images of Gary. They look pretty bad. But at the same time, I don't want to, like, base those images—like, I don't want to—these images that I've seen, I don't want to, like, right away make the conclusion that that's Gary, Indiana. So, like, if you could, like, paint a picture for me of, like, how Gary looks, like, the good, the bad, the ugly, like, give me a full picture. Don't give me that, like, picture that, like, people stereotypically think of. Because I see that you love Gary, Indiana. And so I want you to paint me the picture of, like, what is it that you love and also paint me the picture of, like, man, what is it that—speaking to what you said about how, like, it's kind of—it's become Scary Gary. Like, paint me that whole picture.
Schuler: [00:05:53] Well, on the good tip, it's people who care about you. You have people in the streets who see you down, they help you up. They lift you up. And, like, one thing that I love about Gary is the home baseball games because it brings everybody together, no matter if you're a drug dealer, a killer, or just a random person out here trying to get at how they live [phonetic]. But on the bad note, you go over on the east side of Gary, over to 19th and Colfax, that's one of the most—roughest parts of Gary. You got Colfax, you got 5th Avenue, you've got the Bronx, you've got Glen Park. Those are your four major gangs. Those gangs do not get along with anyone. So, whatever beef there is, whoever's around during that time, they've got to pray, because they could die.
Q: And that's where you're—is that what your dad was trying to get you way from?
Schuler – Session #1 – 8 Schuler: [00:07:17] Yes, and I was going down the wrong path where I would have ended up either in jail or dead.
Q: Okay. All right. Well, let's see. [unclear] get these moments of silence and—it's always good to have silence, though. Never a bad thing. So, I guess my next question would be, given that I know you, right, like, I—through—by virtue of the department I'm in and the work that we've done at Washington, which has gotten you involved, how do you feel about how everything's unfolded since leaving Gary?
Schuler: [00:08:03] I feel great about it. I mean, it gave me a lot of opportunities that I couldn’t get in Gary.
Q: Okay.
Schuler: [00:08:15] The Black and Latino Male Achievement Group, they kind of helped change my life because they gave me—they saw the light in me and they want me to succeed. A lot of people out here don't want to see us young black males achieve.
Q: Tell me more about that. So, I want—I mean [phonetic], tell me more about that. Like, what are the signs that make you believe that? And I'm going to ask that because when we say that, right—like, I say that for me, I'm not black, I'm Mexican. And I'll say, like, that's a message I've given to y'all [phonetic], like, brown—they don't want to see us brown—black and brown males
Schuler – Session #1 – 9 succeeding. People, when I say that, look at me like I'm tripping, like I'm on some tip, you know? But it's, like, no, it's real. So, like, for me, what is that makes you feel that way?
Schuler: [00:09:10] Just really the conversations that we have. It helps boost my confidence. And when a person has high confidence in themselves, they achieve greater. Like, during the beginning of the year, with me being a freshman [phonetic], I didn't want to do my work. I'm a freshman. I want to learn the school. But during this program, I noticed, like, life is too short to goof off. So, I started going to all my classes, doing my work, getting involved in extracurricular activities, things to help better my life so I can be able to get the knowledge to pass it on to someone else.
Q: Once again—so, you kind of—you hit, like, the positive and I don't want to sound negative. But, like, when you say that, like, they don't want to see black male successful, like, what is it that you see that makes you genuinely believe that? And this is, like, outside of our program. Like, what is it that you see that makes you feel that way?
Schuler: [00:10:25] Every morning, I'll wake up and I'll watch the news. And I hear about another young male dying or a young teenager, he got pulled over by the police in a high-speed chase in all these stolen cars. That's what makes me kind of believe, like, oh, well, we're tearing ourselves down anyways. We're making them, the people, feel like—we're proving their point. And we shouldn't be providing their point. We should be providing them wrong.
Q: Okay. So, this is basically, like, what you see on the media.
Schuler – Session #1 – 10
Schuler: Yes.
Q: Like, the—what—the messages they send about black people.
Schuler: Right.
Q: If you had some thoughts—I'm kind of, like, deviating a bit here—but, like, if you had some thoughts to share with the media, what would you share with them in regards to that?
Schuler: [00:11:25] What I would share with the media—I would probably fight—at the media, [laughter] because I would be fighting my word on a good tip of how those young men who were in that stolen car could've done better. But they thought they were—they have the mindset that, "Oh, we're not going to be anything better anyways." So, why not just go out here and do this and go out here and do that? But, no, it's more than that. Some of these males grew up in homes without a father. So, they had to find a way to help moms out. So, they went out to go do the extra when really, all moms want you to do is go to school, graduate, then get a good paying job, "And then come back and help me." It's basically, like, two wrongs don't make a right. But it's going out—this is [phonetic] young black—young males, us going out and doing what we see the next young male do. That's being a follower. You should want to make a stand for the world and say, "No, this is not the right path to go down. You want to go down path A, not path B, because path B going to lead you in some trouble. Path A going to steer you to riches and love. Going down path B going to get you either in jail or in the box."
Schuler – Session #1 – 11
Q: Okay. So, you kind of allude to this—of, like, right on with what you just said of, like, you know, males are in a situation where it's, like, they don't have a father figure, their mom's struggling, so they go do this when, really, their mom just wants them to go, like—
Schuler: Right.
Q: —take care of themselves the right way. And then, you kind of—as you spoke, you were talking about, like, coming back and helping out. Do you have any plans to do that, whether it be for, like, Milwaukee or for Gary? Or, like what are your future plans in general?
Schuler: [00:13:59] Well, me wanting to be a lawyer, you know? I would go back home to go to school. So, I would probably go to Notre Dame. And then, I would come back to Gary and be a defense lawyer for all the males who are going through these trials and they're being committed to a crime that they didn't commit. And that might help them think, like, well, if I'm being accused of this, then let me show them I can do different. That second chance could save a life. And that life could save another.
Q: Yes.
Schuler: [00:14:42] It's a chain reaction. Here, in Milwaukee, I probably would come back and help the school systems, especially Washington.
Schuler – Session #1 – 12 Q: Why is that?
Schuler: [00:14:59] This is my home [unclear] [laughter] but, Miss Terry, our principal, she—a lifesaver. She helped me through some hard times. And she steered me down the right path.
Q: Speak more on that.
Schuler: Well—
Q: And I'm going to tell—I'm going to ask you why [phonetic], speak more on that—and if I have your permission, I will share this portion of the interview with her, not the entire thing. Just, like, the positive you have to say about her, because I think she's a phenomenal school principal and I feel sometimes that she thinks she isn't doing enough. I think for her to hear that I think would really make her day. But just speak more on that, like, her guiding you down the right path. What does that—or, like, what did she do and has she done that for other kids in the school, as well?
Schuler: [00:16:02] Oh, well, for me, it was really kind of—like, I was always getting into fights. And Miss Terry, you [phonetic] look at me, like, "Come on, now. He can do better than that."
Q: Yes.
Schuler – Session #1 – 13 Schuler: [00:16:17] And she used to help—like, make it to the point where I didn't get suspended. She did [phonetic] take the rap for it. That's, like—most of these principals out here wouldn't do that. They'd be strict on getting you suspended. But Miss Terry, she—like I said, she [unclear] people who'd give you a second chance. And that second chance helped turn my grades around, my attendance. It opened up a door for me during this Art Start program that made me also think about going into modeling. And if I went into modeling and I achieved that dream, of course I will come back and help Miss Terry out. This school would be totally different. I would help donate money into field trips, a new science lab. We already got a new kitchen. Why not help raise [phonetic] [unclear] Miss Terry, if I could, one day I want to come back and just have a lunch with Miss Terry so Miss Terry'd be—so Miss Terry knows someone at this school actually cares.
Q: So, you say the science lab, you say you got a new kitchen in the [phonetic] science lab. Why a new science lab? And I want you to know I'm [phonetic] kind of asking the question that I think I got the answer to, but I just want to hear it from you.
Schuler: [00:17:58] Well, a new science lab because science, it helps open the opportunities for other people. And the science lab we've got now, it's not actually a science lab. So, we don't really do science. We do research. And I've always wanted to dissect a frog, so why not have a real deal science lab where you can do that in?
Q: Okay, I see what you're saying. So, you don't really do science. Kind of speak more to that besides just, like, dissecting a frog. Like, what do you envision going on in a science classroom?
Schuler – Session #1 – 14
Schuler: [00:18:40] Chemistry.
Q: All right.
Schuler: [00:18:43] Because chemistry is, like—you've got to have a bond [phonetic], two people working together in the chemical environment, succeeding. That's potential. And having a science lab, it can—you can have science fairs, people can do projects, science projects, volcanoes. Some people here never made a volcano. With a science lab, you can do that. Make a child's [phonetic] first chemical explosion. I know, I watch it on—I used to watch it on TV. I just went, "I want to do that one day." I get to high school, I'm, like, where's the chemistry lab at? We don't have one. So, it could be someone down the line [phonetic] who'll want to do chemistry, they come to Washington High School, but there is no chemistry lab, no science lab. I want to help that happen.
Q: So, I'm hearing—this is really making me joyful right now—is you're not even thinking about you and, like, what you didn't get to have. You're thinking about—I mean, you are thinking about that. But it's, like, "How can I—I didn't have this, how can I make sure other people have that?"
Schuler: Right.
Schuler – Session #1 – 15 Q: Okay, I'll [phonetic]—I'm talking a little bit about your Art Start project, because the Art Start project—because I was thinking about what you said today in the session that we had this morning. You were saying how you want to be a defense attorney, basically.
Schuler: All right [phonetic].
Q: Or a district attorney, a D.A. And then, I'm thinking about your Art Start project and your Art Start project, what I got was you wanted to be—
Schuler: Right, I wanted to do—
Q: —a rapper—
Schuler: Right, right.
Q: —or a model. So—
Schuler: [00:20:38] Well, I mean, it's—that's just a hobby that I want to pursue but not everyone makes it. That's why I had that backup plan. But during the Art Start program, that's what I really want to do. So, I wanted to envision what that would look like to motivate me more on, "You can do this. You can do this." And one day, it might actually come true.
Schuler – Session #1 – 16 Q: Okay. Thinking about that, I'm about ready—I'm about—when you do your—what [phonetic] your concept was for your Art Start project, speak to that—not necessarily your concept but, like, the power that that project has.
Schuler: [00:21:38] The power that that project has—it helps motivate me. It helps motivate others, because it is me being the young black male. And the little shorties coming up and they see that picture, thinking about [phonetic], "Oh, well, he did it, I can do it, too." So, it has the power of bringing together brotherhood, especially in the picture I got. It's a little picture that I could remember forever. I'm not going to go into detail. That's to be revealed. But it shows how us, as civilians, no matter what the race is, we can come together and succeed.
Q: Okay. You talk about brotherhood a lot. Why is that so important to you?
Schuler: [00:22:35] Brotherhood is so important to me because us as brothers, young black males, we've got to look out for each other. They already stereotype us as not being able to make it. But the more we stand up for one another and we look out for one another, we can always succeed and show the people wrong [phonetic]. We can defeat the stereotypes and the hypocrites who talk down on us and try and instill in our head that we aren't going to ever be nothing.
Q: Okay. So, just—on brotherhood, do you think—and this is up to your interpretation. Like, the black community that you see, do you think they have it?
Schuler – Session #1 – 17 Schuler: [00:23:32] Some communities have it. But my community, especially, we don't have it because—
Q: You're talking about, like, where you live?
Schuler: Yes.
Q: Okay.
Schuler: [00:23:43] We don't have it because every summer the whole street'll be filled with nothing but fights. We'll all fight each other and we can't talk things out and come up with a suggestion that could help make it easier on both of us. That way, you're not bleeding, I'm not bleeding. You're not hurt, I'm not hurt. Then, maybe one day we can look back at that and laugh.
Q: How do you think the segregation of Milwaukee kind of plays a role to those things that you see?
Schuler: [00:24:30] The segregation of Milwaukee plays a big role because when you go out there in Silver Springs where all the Caucasian people stay—well, you got some blacks that stay out there, too—when you go out there, it's, like—it's a calmer environment. But when you come down to the low numbers, like 40th and Center or 29th and Burla [phonetic], it's start to get rough because down here, it's a lower income commodity [phonetic], I guess, if you want to call it—but also, there's a lot of crime here. I've never seen this much crime. Well, I have but not as
Schuler – Session #1 – 18 bad as it is here. You've got kids in—coming down Rice Street in stolen vehicles, highly [phonetic] stolen vehicles. And just a few weeks ago—no, last month, it was some teenagers who were in the vehicle and they killed three people. Now, three of those teenagers were my—I consider my boys. One of them out, the other two got forty years. But they kind of got blessed, because they could have got life. And I'm just glad that I wasn't in that car with them.
Q: That's deep, yo. That's really deep. [unclear] brother [phonetic], I think, recently, you know, before luncheon, we were talking about some kids and we were wondering if they were in our group, in our luncheon—
Schuler: [00:26:40] They were.
Q: They were? All right.
Schuler: [00:26:43] Well, one of them was.
Q: One of them was, all right. So, really quick, I'm kind of, like, super deviating and that's fine. Oh, I heard you say Notre Dame. Why Notre Dame?
Schuler: Why?
Q: Yes.
Schuler – Session #1 – 19 Schuler: [00:27:03] Well, Notre Dame is kind of like a family school.
Q: Okay.
Schuler: [00:27:07] My dad graduated from Notre Dame. My mom graduated with her master's degree in nursing. My granddad—
Q: From Notre Dame?
Schuler: Yes.
Q: Okay.
Schuler: [00:27:16] My grandma graduated with her MD [Doctor of Medicine]—well, yes. Well, is it MD? I think it's doctor [unclear]—
Q: Her PhD [phonetic] [Doctor of Philosophy]?
Schuler: [00:27:30] Medical—yes, PhD.
Q: Oh, her MD. So, yes, her MD—if it was a medical doctorate—
Schuler: Yes.
Schuler – Session #1 – 20
Q: —her MD.
Schuler: [00:27:35] And she's a doctor. My uncle graduated from Notre Dame, but he does music. He's a music producer.
Q: Okay.
Schuler: [00:27:45] I want to graduate from Notre Dame, because it's a good law school.
Q: Okay. All right. Real quick, let me see what we have [phonetic]. What's something that you really, I guess, want to just get off your mind, share in this interview, whether it was about your school year, anything that's gone on recently that you just want to talk about and just—no filter, just let it all run out. [unclear]
Schuler: [00:28:27] I guess I'll stick with the school year, then.
Q: Okay.
Schuler: [00:28:31] I don't want to get too deep in it [phonetic]—
Q: [unclear]
Schuler – Session #1 – 21 Schuler: [00:28:33] So, it was first day, freshman year.
Q: This year.
Schuler: [00:28:39] In this year. So, the first day I walked in, I'm thinking I'm cool. I walk in, go to class. I've got a friend [phonetic] [unclear] and he was, like, "I want to be here, but [phonetic]"—and so, we left class. I'll never forget. We left class.
Q: That was the very first day?
Schuler: [00:29:02] Very first day. Very—
Q: First day of the school year?
Schuler: —very first day.
Q: Okay. [laughter]
Schuler: [00:29:06] We left class. Boom. We went back to my house. Pa's says, like, "Boy, what are you doing home so early?" Said, "I wasn't feeling it today." It was, like, "All right, well, it is the first day. So, you've got to get used to it." So, we went in the room, played 2K and did us, you know? Do what we do. [laughter] Just having fun, chilling. Then, we go back up to the school, like, right before school was out. And we get into a fight. They tried—they actually tried
Schuler – Session #1 – 22 to jump us, though. It was, like, ten of them. But we both did boxing, so we weren't worried about it. So, we're knocking them out left and right, boom. Right hook. We're standing back to back. [laughs] Catching them. But then, my boy, he got hit in the stomach and he got—he already was having, like, kidney problems.
Q: Oh!
Schuler: [00:30:07] And he passed out. So, I couldn't just let him stay there. So, I'm trying to fight them off by myself. And it wasn't a pretty sight. So, we end up—I end up actually picking him up and carrying him on my back to St. Joseph's Hospital.
Q: Which is off of—
Schuler: [00:30:30] I think that's—I think—I know it's off Burleigh. I think that's—
Q: Oh, I know which one you're talking about, like—
Schuler: Yes.
Q: —it's, like—
Schuler: [00:30:37] Right down there.
Schuler – Session #1 – 23 Q: Yes, it's not that far from here.
Schuler: [00:30:38] No, so I carried him, running like this, running to the hospital. We get him there and they saved his life, to the—from that day forward, that was when Miss Terry intervened in my life. And she changed my life.
Q: You're good, Des [phonetic]. Come on, man, you know that we've told you, as men, we're good to [phonetic] cry, bro. Don't feel like you can't do that and be vulnerable here, man. Thank you for sharing that with me, Des. So, your boy was legit? You would have lost your boy, then, that day.
Schuler: Yes.
Q: Yes. So, Miss Terry intervened, what did that intervention consist of?
Schuler: [00:31:26] It was rough.
Q: Was it like a Big Mama talk?
Schuler: [00:31:28] Yes. [laughter] It was one of those, "Boy, you know you can do better than this."
Q: Yes.
Schuler – Session #1 – 24
Schuler: [00:31:34] "And you should never have left the school in the first place. You would never have left the school, then you wouldn't have been worried about [phonetic]—this whole incident happened. Then you wouldn't have had to go to the hospital. Then, I wouldn't be talking to you right now." [laughs] So, I'm, like, "Okay, Miss Terry." And she was, like, "Now, go to class. And you'd better be good." So, I went to class and did what I had to do. She pulled up my attendance sheet, like, "Didn't I say go to class?" [laughter] I'm, like, "I did!" [laughter] Then she's, like, "Why are you late, then?" "Because I was talking to you!" [laughter] She was, "Oh, yes, that's right." [laughter] But, yes, this school year's been rough.
Q: Right. No, I know it has. You've had a lot going on throughout the course of a year and it's just freshman year, too.
Schuler: Right.
Q: So, what's really helped you in being resilient with this year? And I want you to think of just, like, you. Just you, you personally.
Schuler: Me?
Q: Yes.
Schuler: Well—
Schuler – Session #1 – 25
Q: Because I want—and I said—because, like, got to—got—you know [phonetic], there's been people along the way or programs. But, like, none of that—like, you've got to take ownership in how you, like—you hear what I'm saying?
Schuler: [00:32:51] Yes, I get you. So, basically what you're saying is, like, how did I better my life though this school year?
Q: Yes.
Schuler: Well—
Q: Or, like, what was it that clicked in your head where you were just, like—
Schuler: Yes.
Q: —"I could have gone this way"—and, in fact, there were times, right, from what—in this [phonetic] interview, like, you kind of wanted to go that way. You were kind of, like, "Yo"—like, even with your dad bringing you out here and leaving Gary to get you away from that, you kind of came out here, first day of school, you were, like, "Man, screw this." I know there's been instances, you know, that I've heard, you know, where it's, like, you want to go that way [laughter] and it's, like, you're leaning there. But there's always something that brings you back. And, like, that—those are the moments where it's literally you making that decision. I want to
Schuler – Session #1 – 26 know, like, what is it that's going on in your head that's making you say, "No, like, this is the path I need to go on"?
Schuler: [00:33:44] Well, the path I need to—I—the way I thought about it was with me being the oldest brother. I've got to set the example.
Q: How many siblings you got?
Schuler: [00:33:55] I got two on my dad's side and two on my mom's side.
Q: Younger?
Schuler: Yes.
Q: All off them?
Schuler: Yes.
Q: So, you're the oldest?
Schuler: [00:34:01] I'm the oldest—
Q: All right.
Schuler – Session #1 – 27
Schuler: —on both.
Q: Okay.
Schuler: [00:34:03] So, I play a major role in the family.
Q: Okay.
Schuler: [00:34:07] But me, mentally, I thought, like, I can't go down this path if I want to be a lawyer. Or I can go down this path to get that experience because I want to be a musician. So, it's kind of, like, which path—going to lead me down the right way? And I chose more so the lawyer side because, yes, I can still go down to the 'hood and chop it up and chill. But I can't be out here selling weed and then, like, that's going to be too out there. That's going to hurt my future. So, I thought about it and I [phonetic] know I can't do that path. So, I'm going to stick to my good path.
Q: Wow [phonetic]. We're pretty much getting close to wrapping this up. If you had a magic wand to end—to solve, like, a lot of the issues you see in your—in the community you live in now, the issues that you saw in Gary before you left out there, if you had that magic wand to do it, what would you do with that magic wand? Like, how would you—
Schuler: It's [phonetic]—
Schuler – Session #1 – 28
Q: —use that magic wand to better the community?
Schuler: [00:35:34] Well, I wouldn't bring that magic wand here. I would bring—I would leave it in Gary. So, I would wish I could just touch the ground and know—and Gary is—just be like it was when Jack was alive. Mike. Because when—during that era, Gary was—it was lit. It was— everybody had a smile on their face. No crime was going on. And it was a beautiful sight to see. Gary was—it was a—what is it called? You know when, like, when you go to go see other—a tourist—
Q: A tourist spot.
Schuler: Yes.
Q: Okay.
Schuler: [00:36:27] Gary was a tourist spot. And now that it fell apart it's, like, damn, where'd all the money go? The tourists were bringing the money in. So, if I could just touch the ground and the world—and the—Gary just shine gold [phonetic], it'd bring money back into the city and it'll keep fluctuating and making the city better.
Q: Okay. Well, thank you, Des. Great interview. It ends there [phonetic].
Schuler – Session #1 – 29 [END OF INTERVIEW]