Philander

Columbia INCITE | Oral History_David Castillo-Philander Harris-3-4-19

Today's date is March the 4th. My name is David Emanuel Castillo. I am the planning system for the Department of Black and Latino Male Achievement. I am interviewing Philander. Your last name, please?

HARRIS:

Harris.

I knew it. I'm interviewing Philander Harris. Philander, do I have your permission to record this interview for the 2019 Art Start Portrait Project?

HARRIS:

Yes.

Yes. He said yes. He nodded his head and then he said yes. So real quick. This year we're focusing on young men of color of Milwaukee. Through the 2019 Art Start Portrait Project these young men will have their images captured and participants will be able to illustrate how they want themselves to be seen with the world. The oral histories component to this will accompany the composite image that goes into the portrait project in which students will share excerpts from this interview with people that attend the opening exhibition. It's important that, Philander, for this interview that you share what you want to share as captured in your words which is why we are recording this. So with that said, we're going to get started. Tell me about the most memorable childhood experience you can recall.

HARRIS:

When I was first born I was born prematurely. My mom thought I wasn't going to make it. And then she kept praying and I made it. And then when she thought I was dumb I rolled my eyes at her.

How do you hear about this story?

HARRIS:

She told me.

Your mom told you? OK. So you just shared you were born prematurely.

HARRIS:

Yes. Had to stay in the hospital for months.

OK. I was about to say what's more you can recall from that story?

HARRIS:

Huh?

What's more that you can recall from that story?

HARRIS:

Like, what the most memorable part of that story? That part?

Was memorable or just stuff that people have told you about that story that you've heard.

HARRIS:

The born prematurely part?

Yeah. You saw that you rolled your eyes at your mom?

HARRIS:

Yeah. 'Cause she thought I was dumb.

OK. Anything else?

HARRIS:

No.

No? OK. What has stood out to you about yourself throughout your life? What makes you you? Or, so what makes Philander, Philander? And how would you describe yourself? If you want to just start with the first question. What has stood out to you about yourself throughout your life?

HARRIS:

What has stood out? That I am funny and smart. I'm a ladies man.

Your ladies man? What you mean by that?

HARRIS:

Like, when I'm interested in a girl I start to act a little bit different just to impress her.

OK. What does that look like?

HARRIS:

Let's say a new girl come to our school. Very pretty and smart at the same time. Philander going go over there and introduce his self to her and get to know her a bit.

OK.

HARRIS:

I bet you like four months into the year I'm go hit on her.

All right.

HARRIS:

I'm going to try to date her, basically. Try to date her.

So you're going to ask her out?

HARRIS:

Yeah.

OK. What makes you you?

HARRIS:

What makes me me? My dad and my momma. And the reason I say that is because they birthed me. Like I got they features and I'm a ladies man. I like ladies. I'm all funny. I think I'm gorgeous. I think I'm going to be in WWE be one day. And that's what makes me me.

OK. All right. How do you describe yourself? You just so funny.

HARRIS:

Yeah.

What else? You said funny.

HARRIS:

Fun. Cool. Talk to much.

Talk to much?

HARRIS:

Big head. I like to motivate people to do the right thing and always telling somebody to do the right thing.

What you mean by a big head?

HARRIS:

Got a big head.

OK. I don't know. I wasn't sure if you meant literally big head or if there's more meaning to that.

HARRIS:

Yeah. I've discovered I got a big head.

So you bring up WWE. What was what got you into wrestling or WWE?

HARRIS:

So my brother, he had people that go over their house with. They cool with him. He just fits with them and they cool. We all cool. And my sister on her dance team. And her son, he was at a wrestling just I was. I was like, I used to watch it back then when it was on Friday nights and Monday nights. And then that's when I started back watching it. I don't know, it's same. It's at night. And it just became everyday thing for me. And I figured that I want to be like somebody like Roman Reigns. I want to fight against all odds and be another Daniel Bryan. And I just want to be a cool person. I want to be strong, and big, and buff, and just running over everything. And I just love WWE so much but if Vince McMahon don't take me I'm just going to have to go to a different promotion.

How were you when you got interested in it? Was this recent or were you like much, much younger?

HARRIS:

No. I was much younger. I was about like seven years old when I got into it.

You just met some wrestlers I'm guessing.

HARRIS:

Yeah.

I don't know who they are. You mentioned one of them overcoming all the odds. Who is this wrestler?

HARRIS:

Two of the wrestlers came over all the odds, Roman Reigns--

Who?

HARRIS:

Roman Reigns and Daniel Bryan.

All right. Tell me about the first one.

HARRIS:

Roman Reigns?

Yeah. Tell me about him first and then you can tell me about Daniel.

HARRIS:

He is a powerhouse. When I saw him, I was like, Yeah, he going to be WWE top guy. And he just got a great look. Something that I have pictured on me. I just picture his body with my face with it. He was just super cool and I just looked up from ever since. He got leukemia and when he came back I was so excited 'cause he was so cool. He was just fun to watch. Seth Rollins, him too. Seth Rollins and Daniel Bryan.

OK. Now tell me about Daniel Bryan.

HARRIS:

He-- now, like he don't like nobody. Well, they got a storyline so they fake like they don't like nobody. But really he a cool person. He got a kid and I want to be him. 'Cause it was like Wrestlemania 31 or 32, he literally had to fight two matches and one night and guess what he did? He fought two matches in one night and beat both them. And one of them was for a championship and he won both the matches just to get to the other match. And that was just so cool to watch him do that because it was like, man, I want to be like either of them bros. I want to be any wrestler. I just don't want to be a jerk wrestler. I don't want to be somebody like

Vince McMahon don't take me series. So that's what I want to do, I want to get strong so I can be a one to be reckoned with. Q:

OK. You brought up the wrestler that had leukemia. So he had leukemia and he came back?

HARRIS:

Yeah, four moths. It was back in October and four months later, he comes back.

What does that mean to you? Like this wrestler in particular, him getting this leukemia. It seems like his career is a wrap. Right?

HARRIS:

No. not no more.

Not no more? But then he comes back. What does that mean to you?

HARRIS:

It means that sometimes-- 'Cause he had leukemia for 11 years. He had it for 11 years he got diagnosed with it when he was 22 years old. Throughout those 11 years he was dealing with leukemia and he put it in remission. And then that's when it was cool to watch him. I was like, Man, what happened to Roman Reigns? And that's when he came on show the next night and said, My real name me Joe. I was living with leukemia for 11 years. And he didn't know if he wanted to share with the world because it was so hard for him. And then when he left I thought leukemia was a storyline. Like I thought that he really didn't have it. I thought it was just a storyline.

You thought it was part of the wrestling?

HARRIS:

Yeah. And then that's when I looked up on the internet and it said-- First of all I asked my sister what is leukemia. She bigger than me. She like 19 or 20. And then I asked her what is leukemia. She said leukemia is a blood cancer. So I looked it up. What is leukemia? And that's what they say it was a blood cancer and I was like, dang, Roman Reigns really got leukemia. There ain't no telling when he going to come back. And then I got that notification on my phone that was like, Roman Reigns will be appearing to address his and adjust his leukemia status. And then that's when I was like, Yes.Roman Reigns is coming back. Roman Reigns is coming back. And then that's when he's like, shall we get to the good news?

I mean you're telling your story, man. It's all good.

HARRIS:

He told the world that he was in remission. He said, the good news is I'm in remission, y'all. And I was just so excited to hear that because I knew what remission means. I know that he was on his way back. And it was just so cool. And then moments later his former show partner was again beat down and then that's when he came back. Straight out of the gate Superman punching everybody he sees. It was just so cool to watch him. He's Back Into action. When he addressed that he had leukemia I was hurting because I something bad was going to happen to him. I thought he was going to die. But that's how I realized-- He said he wanted to tell the whole world that when life throws a curve ball to him he's the one who want to swing for the fences. That's what he did. He said he didn't swing for the fences, he hit a home run. Which means that I know he did good. So that's a lot. That's when he's like, [INAUDIBLE] I'm in remission y'all. And I just enjoyed watching that. So I will continue to watch to watch it until I get there.

It seems like that quote really stuck with you, right?

HARRIS:

Yeah.

Why did that stick with you?

HARRIS:

He was out for four months. I thought he was going to be out for a year or two because the world's saying he's going to be out for a year or two. But then when I saw him on planes going to football games I knew he was in good condition. Then he came on RAW that night and I said he was in remission. It was just super cool to watch him. He inspired me to get into the WWE. Because I want to be that one that just fights against all odds because I enjoy watch him. And when I go to the WWE, if I go, I don't want to be a jobber. I want to be a main event player. So in order for me to do that I got to be, first me, but at the same time I want to be another Roman Reigns.

OK. OK. I want say since we started the interview, you brought up against all odds. What are the odds that you think you're up against?

HARRIS:

I feel like if I'm trying to be another Roman Reigns and a [INAUDIBLE] he going to put me up in two on one handicap matches because that's what Roman Reigns had to fight to get to the top. He was just a main event player his whole life. If I want that same treatment I'm just going

to have to fight against all odds and then enjoy my time because it was just so cool to watch. I don't care where nobody says, I love WWE and I always will because it was just so fun. And I want to be able to tell my kids that winter whatever they want to do, whatever they put mind too, if they want to do it you could do it. You go chase your dreams. And if that means moving to Atlanta just for you to chase your dream, so be it. Because my momma allows me to chase my dreams. So that means that if my kids want to chase their dreams then they are just going to have to be like that because I love to chase my dreams. I want them to chase their dreams just like I chase mine. Be the best you could be. Q:

All right. With that said, now I'm going to ask you, who have been the most important people in your life?

HARRIS:

My mom, my dad. The ones that are most important to me. My mom, my dad, my sisters, my brothers. , Basically people that live with me in my household. That's the most important people. And my dad, of course. Because if it wasn't for him or my momma, I wouldn't be here today. So that's why they the most important to me.

Now, how about your siblings. Why are they important to you? I mean aside from the fact that they're you siblings.

HARRIS:

Their important to me because-- My sister just always messing with me. And my brother I just love my little brother. My little brother, he is 10 years old. I'm 13. He looks up to me. And I know it. Just because he don't say it, don't mean he don't look at me. Because he's watching me, trust me, I can tell. I had nights where I was sleeping, my little brother would be scared and he would come down to the end with me. Why? Because he was scared. And I had just laid down because he was scared and he had bad dreams. And I had bad dreams, so I know how it is. But me, I don't wake up but I don't wake up when I have a bad dream. I just let the dream play out and just be scared in my head. That's when I wake up like, Man, thank God that was just a dream. And I love my little brother. I love all of my siblings. So when my brother yelling at me telling me to do the right thing, I know it's not because he wanted to be mean or none of that. He want the best for me. He wants me to do the right thing. He didn't do the right thing, he wants me to do the right thing. I love my family. It's in a rack with me. And the same with my friends. I love when their in the rack with me. Because they just

[INAUDIBLE]. Like when I come to school I come to school mostly happy every day because I know I got the teacher I got and I got to friends I got. And my siblings friends. Everybody in that school cares about me. And I really enjoy it. Q:

So earlier you brought up your older brother, I have reason to believe that's [? Romarion, ?] right?

HARRIS:

No.

No?

HARRIS:

No, it's not [? Romar. ?]

It's not [? Romar? ?]

HARRIS:

I said older brother.

Older brother? The reason why I bring that up though is earlier I saw [? Romarion ?] kind of-he seemed a little frustrated with you, upset with you when you were asleep. You know what I'm talking about? Is that the type of stuff-- the tough love-- not the tough love, but you know that he did that because he cares about you?

HARRIS:

I shouldn't be sleeping. Where do you sleep? They don't play [INAUDIBLE] just get me woke. I was listening, I just wasn't up to look in your eye. I was listening. I wasn't fully sleep. I was listening. I just was lying down. And I know my bother loves me. My brother mess with me every day. It's not 24/7 throughout the day but he mess with me every day.

How is it knowing that you have your brother at your school?

HARRIS:

Fun. Wait. hold up. No. It's not fun because he's just irritating. Like, I need to be by myself. But there's going to be times where I'm going through something. Me and my brother will split up next year. My brother is going to 9th grade and I'm going to be in 8th. We splitting up. He's going to high school at the beginning of his high school career. And I going to be up at 8th grade on my way to high school. When he go to 10th, I'm going to be in 9th and that's just how it's going to play out for the rest of our years. And I'm going to try my best just to get in the same school as him because I look up to me brother. That's why when he do something cool I like follow him. My brother you get mad at me when I used to follow. When he'd get an apple, I'd get an apple

too. When he'd get an orange, I get an orange too. , Like when he get to walk to the store, momma, I should be able to walk to the store. You know why? Because I think I deserve the same privileges. And the apple part and all that, I feel like I should be able to get an apple without you saying something to me. I don't care about you saying that I followed you. [INAUDIBLE] Q:

OK.

HARRIS:

But I like to play it off like when he get an apple I just like wait. I just wait and wait and then eventually I get an apple. And he will end up saying, Bro, you a follower. And then I'm like, So. Yeah, we speaking of [? Romarion. ?]

OK. I'm asking how do you think people perceive youth?

HARRIS:

What do you mean?

How do you think people perceive young people?

HARRIS:

Like, treat young people?

Not treat them. How they see them. How do you think people see young people?

HARRIS:

Like me or younger?

You or younger. It's up to you however you want to interpret that.

HARRIS:

I think not everybody see young people as children or fun. I don't think everybody treats-some people just be trying to rape little kids and do all this just to hurt little kids. It just bugging me. So that's how I see younger people.

OK. How do you think people perceive youth of color?

HARRIS:

Not everybody cares about who's black and who's white but there are some white people that hate black people. And they trying to do all these bad things. Like, cops. Cops, some white cops, they like to arrest black people or get them tickets and do all this mean stuff just keep them off the streets. That's why I'm going to be careful for who I run with and who I be with. I'm trying to live my dreams until I die. I'm trying to just be cool and just have a great life. So in order for me to do that, I don't think nobody should raise everybody off their color. Because they white it don't mean you should talk about them. Because their black don't mean you

should talk about them. It don't mean you should, but oh, my God he's black. I don't think that's cool. Like, if a white person came up to me, He's black. I just don't like it. Q:

OK. How do you think people perceive the neighborhood you live in? How do they see the neighborhood you live in?

HARRIS:

Violence.

Violence?

HARRIS:

Yeas. Not everything is violent but most of it is violence. Not everybody is violent. But I got to watch [INAUDIBLE]. None of that happened to me. But it's not just about violence, it's about-The way I think we should perceive our neighbor is with love and respect.

OK. What does that look like to you?

HARRIS:

Love and respect?

In terms of access what would that look like?

HARRIS:

Let's just say two random people get into a car crash and they on their way to die, a random person just go up to them and just show them love and go to the hospital with them. And they don't even know them. They just go because they respect and love people. That's why I feel like that when I eventually die, I want somebody to respect me. I know I'm the most respected person. Everybody in this school respect me. Now, sometimes I might get mad at people but everybody possibly in this school respect me. Beside my classmates because the just classmates. My friends respect me and some other people respect me.

Sorry about that, that was me.

HARRIS:

But adult-wise, adult people, every adult respects me. I can't just say every adult but mostly every adult respects me.

So you say respect and love and I'm going to ask, why are those so important to you?

HARRIS:

Because I don't nobody should be killing each other. I don't think it should be tolerated. I think we should love and respect each other. And care for people who he is. It's basically no disrespect because just not right. I think our humanity should be way better than what it is.

OK. In terms of your community, you feel like there could be more love and respect being shown? Yeah? OK. So now the next question kind of ties in but it's a little bit of taking a different route. What do you what do you think people need now to make their lives better?

HARRIS:

What do I think people need in order to make their life better? School.

OK. School.

HARRIS:

Respect people. Don't disrespect people if you want people to help you out. School. Jobs. Be you and your life will be way better. And you need money. You need money so you go live and support people and support yourself.

You say be you. Why is that? Why do you think that's very important?

HARRIS:

Be yourself. Because copying is never, never an option. When your copying that just shows that you're not a role model or a leader. That just shows that's you're a copy. Somebody kills somebody you going go right and you going to do the same thing because you copied them. You shouldn't copy nobody. That's just not right. That's another reason why I say be yourself and eventually you'll achieve greatness.

Do you feel a lot of people aren't themselves?

HARRIS:

Most people are their self but some people like to copy.

The recorder caught all that. Where have you seen that, we're people copy? You kind of gave an example right now but what's another example you've seen? Where people aren't being themselves. And you can even think of your school. Like, what does that look like in Sherman when people aren't themselves?

HARRIS:

Like one of my friends, she herself but when my friend Keshan came into the game, she was copying them a little bit. And that's when I was like, She's copying. What's the point? And then that's when I said be yourself. And then that's when she eventually stopped copying. That's why. That's another reason I say be yourself. Because you copy, you end up getting caught up in a you end and becoming-Let's just say it's a robbery. You didn't do the robbery but you copy [INAUDIBLE] 24/7. But let's just say you don't copy one time. You don't copy one time. You're life is ruined because you copy so many times that people don't believe that you didn't do it.

I see what you're saying.

HARRIS:

So that's why I just like to be myself.

I see what you saying because the point you just made right now is like here's this one time you didn't copy and you're being yourself but people are not going to see you for that.

HARRIS:

Because you copy so many time.

OK.

HARRIS:

How many questions are on that sheet?

A lot. No, I'm not asking all of them though.

HARRIS:

Wait, how many questions did you ask?

I want to say I asked about five.

HARRIS:

You did not ask me about five questions.

Yes, I did.

HARRIS:

You asked me about 10.

I asked you this one. That's one. I asked you this one. That's two. I asked you this one. That's three. Four. I asked you four. You know you think it was 10? Because some of these have more than one question. I count that as one question. [LAUGHTER] But I'll ask you this last question. And the reason why ask, just give you some context or some background info, I remember when I came here, you were very excited about this project. So I'm going to ask. What was it in that moment and, even now to this day-- because I can still see that you have a great level of energy and excitement. What was it that excited you about this?

HARRIS:

Because you all told me I get to do a background. You all told me I get to do photo shoots. You all told me that I can be in the wrestling holding up championships. And I'm going to look back at those pictures and be like, yep. And look what I'm doing now, holding up that same

championship with that same pose. Just like Mr. David told me I could do. Q:

OK.

HARRIS:

All right, interview over.

All right. Hold on. Give it here.

HARRIS:

Wait. I could play my interview?

Not yet. Let me see. Hold on though. I don't want to fuzz it out. I got to close it out. With that said, you all, about to close out this interview. I want to thank Philander because he's the man. Say you the man.

HARRIS:

I'm the man.

He's the man. He's also a ladies man. So ladies, you better watch out.