Columbia INCITE | Oral HIstory_David Castillo_Gregory Griffin-3-4-19
Q:
Today's date is March the 4th. My name is David Emmanuel Castillo. I'm the Planning Assistant for the Department of Black and Latino Male Achievement. I am interviewing Greg, last name please.
GREGORY
Griffin.
GRIFFIN: Q:
Greg Griffin. Greg Griffin, do I have your permission record this interview for the 2019 Art Start Portrait Project?
GREGORY
Yes.
GRIFFIN: Q:
Yes, perfect. So just real quick, to provide some context. The Art Start Portrait Project, The 2019 Art Start Portrait Project, this year we're focusing on young men of color in Milwaukee, in particular black and Latino males through a creative process in which we get to know the young men, we will be able to create a composite image and this composite image will essentially capture how the young men want to be perceived, they will share with the world at our opening exhibition named Boys and Men Of Color Week. Their oral histories component is also a part of the 2019 Art Start Portrait Project. So to accompany their composite image, they will also have a transcribed text that comes from this interview. And particularly the text, it will be text that the young men will choose. So not the entire interview will be in the Portrait Project but, at the end of day with the men, what the young men decide to choose from this interview will go into their portrait project. So with that said, we'll get started. Tell me something about your life. Where were you born? We'll start there. Where were you born? Where?
GREGORY
I was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, at St. Joseph hospital, May 17, 2005. Where I grew up
GRIFFIN:
when I was little--
Q:
I'm going to need you to, just because it's kind of muffly.
GREGORY
Where I grew up when I was little, it was kind of rough. Some of my friends, like, are
GRIFFIN:
[INAUDIBLE] gang violence and stuff like that. One of my friends got killed. And my mom
moved me from the area where all the bad stuff was happening and put me in a better neighborhood. And make sure I was straight. And had my part and do good in school and stuff like that. Make sure I didn't get into trouble or follow the footsteps as people in the community, they're not setting a good example for younger people in their community. Q:
OK. So your friend passed away, right?
GREGORY
Yeah.
GRIFFIN: Q:
And that triggered kind of for your mom to move?
GREGORY
Yeah.
GRIFFIN: Q:
Do you miss your old neighborhood?
GREGORY
Yeah, a lot, because that's where I have a bunch of my friends, a bunch of good memories
GRIFFIN:
and stuff like that. I like the house better. But the neighborhood I'm in now is better. And it better for me to stay out of any you know, any stuff that's going to put me in a wrong direction for the future.
Q:
You say you have a lot of good memories there. What are some good memories?
GREGORY
I used to play football in the backyard, bike races in the summer. I could do a lot of stuff, water
GRIFFIN:
gun fights, stuff like that.
Q:
You don't necessarily have that in your new neighborhood?
GREGORY
Nah, nah. I don't really know that many kids in my neighborhood. No.
GRIFFIN: Q:
How do you feel about the new neighborhood you live in now?
GREGORY
It's peaceful, quiet. Not a lot of noise going on a stuff like that.
GRIFFIN: Q:
OK. Who have been the most important people in your life?
GREGORY
My dad, mom, my older brother. My older brother sets a good example for me and stuff like
GRIFFIN:
that. Like I follow in his footsteps to make sure I'm going on a good path and stuff like that. And my dad, he [? waited ?] for me here and there, like he makes sure and I'm not getting in trouble or stuff like that. Like stuff he tells me, I take it to heart because any situation he could give me in the wrong place. One slip up can make you go to jail or even worse, you're dead. So I just have to keep myself away from all that.
Q:
OK. So how do you think people perceive youth, young people, young people such as yourself?
GREGORY
Well, sometimes I think they care about us more than they do themselves. Because we are the
GRIFFIN:
future and we are making the world a better place. And sometimes, we just get, like, looked over it as like, because we're younger we're not we're talking about or stuff like that.
Like staying in [INAUDIBLE] place, you don't know what you're talking about, and a lot of other stuff. The young youth, we have great ideas to help the world a better place than most adults will. And I feel like the youth, it'll just help the world be a better place. Q:
So you say that the youth got better ideas and the adults.
GREGORY
Yeah.
GRIFFIN: Q:
Do feel like the adults listen to those ideas?
GREGORY
Most. Usually they just-- you know, they'll know that you're-- they will say you don't know what
GRIFFIN:
you're talking about, acting like your ideas-- like you have more ideas that might seem crazy. But that's what you got to aim for to be good in life. Say if you wanted to live on the moon without any space gear, and stuff like that, you will have to work hard for that. And adults will say that's not possible, or something like that. And over years, there can be a way that's actually possible for you to live on the moon, and stuff like that.
Q:
That's why because you just said that, right, like how it's crazy, but if you believe it-- I don't know. It just made me think of Colin Kaepernick and the commercial when he says that. So with that said, right now I asked you how do you think people perceive youth. So now I'm going go get more specific. How do you think people perceive youth of color in Milwaukee?
GREGORY
It's like as we just-- we're like any ones in the community. Mostly our Black people are killing
GRIFFIN:
each other, and a lot of drug dealings and stuff like that. A lot of violence is because of us. And all of us get looked at like that because other people-- we get judged because our skin and what we have done in the past, and stuff like that.
Q:
OK. So you said people judge you based off the past.
GREGORY
Yeah.
GRIFFIN: Q:
What do you mean by [? goal? ?]
GREGORY
You know, slavery. And sometimes usually want revenge or some serious stuff for stuff for no
GRIFFIN:
reason. And other stuff like it'll be Black people killing White people or stuff like that, or how Black people get shot for no reason, get pulled over by the police, and stuff like that, like we're out to get them or it's our fault. So that's what I'm saying, basically.
Q:
OK. That said, how do you want others to see-- Because right now what you describe, a lot of it is just stereotypes, right?
GREGORY
Mm-hmm.
GRIFFIN: Q:
So then how do you want others to see--
GREGORY
I want just to--
GRIFFIN: Q:
--see Black people?
GREGORY
I want them to see us as everyone else, as we have equal opportunities to have jobs, and stuff
GRIFFIN:
like that. Or we are better, we can do more than them. We're just not normal. We can do more. Say it's a lot of Black people are homeless or stuff like that, and don't have homes. And then there's some Black people with mansions, a lot of stuff, a lot of money. We can do more. Black people worked harder than anyone else on the Earth. It's hard to say, because it's harder for a Black person to grow up than a White person. A White person doesn't have any limits or anything, but a Black person does. They can't say say certain stuff or do certain stuff because they'll get in trouble, or stuff like that. And dang, I don't OK.
Q:
No. I know what you're getting at, though. I feel you. I feel you. What would be an example, I guess--
GREGORY
And example?
GRIFFIN: Q:
--of what you're talking about?
GREGORY
Well, I was watching a show the other day and they it said because the White person was the
GRIFFIN:
coach of the-- or the dad was the coach of the son. Right? And he said the son doesn't have to work hard because he's the son of the coach. And the Black person then got looked over, and he was better than the other person. But I liked it because he was Black, and he had to work harder and harder. They're going to see the people who have more in life than a person who has less.
Q:
I see what you're saying. OK. What do you think-- this is not part of the questions I have here, but I guess what I'm trying to ask is what do you think needs to be done to get people to-there is a word you used. I can't remember how you worded it right now. But what do you think needs to be done so that people can see Black people, not according to a stereotype? So really see them that they do have positives that they bring to the table, what do we got to do to change that, to change people's perception, basically?
GREGORY
We got to just stop violence and stuff. A lot of stuff that we do, it's actually our fault. But mostly
GRIFFIN:
it's really not. Because we get looked over because we have lesser money, or because of our skin color. And we have to be better, in general. Like, be better-- we have to get noticed. For reasons there is basketball players that they're just not basketball players. They have the community. They donate to charities, make schools, stuff like that, they come to schools and a bunch of other stuff. Black people do more than we get noticed for. And I feel like that's not good. Because we are-- most of the reason life is the way it is now, half of food we eat, it has come from Africa and stuff like that. You got a think about it. If it wasn't for Black people, half of the stuff you do today or eat or stuff like that, wouldn't be in your life right now.
Q:
OK. Now I'm kind of making this specific to you. What are your dreams for the future?
GREGORY
I will make the world just a better place for when I get older, have kids, or my little sister just to
GRIFFIN:
have to be better. That way she won't grow-- that my kids or my little sister will grow up having
difficulties going to school and stuff like that. And my dream when I get older it is to be a professional athlete. It doesn't matter what sort I play. Because you should be happy with anything. Well, not satisfied with anything, but be happy with what you have and not what you don't have. Q:
OK. You said that part of you-- you want to make the world a better place. Right?
GREGORY
Yeah.
GRIFFIN: Q:
So I guess my question is twofold. Trying to think how to ask the first one. What about the world right now-- what is it about the world right now that lead you to make that statement? So what is it about the world right now that makes you feel like this needs to be a better place for my sister, for my kids in the future?
GREGORY
There's people with no food, no houses, anything. They don't have water to drink, clean water,
GRIFFIN:
stuff like that. They don't have homes to go to. They don't have family to talk to. They don't have no one to talk to. And there's a lot of stuff in the world that doesn't really make sense. Why some kids go to school every day and get made fun of, bullied or whatever-- and it has to be better. Because we're just like the other person. We just have less stuff than them, or we don't have as much money or food. You're different because of what you both have. You both bleed the same blood. Well, not the same blood, but you both bleed blood. You both breathe air. You should be equal, no matter what.
Q:
What do you think kind of gets in the way of that, people not seeing themselves as equal to one another?
GREGORY
People judging, or just jealousy and stuff like that, or you not wanting to see someone do
GRIFFIN:
better than you. A lot of stuff like, say there was someone that's better than me at anything, right? But I want to be better than him, so I'm going to hate on him just because they're better than me. I can work on myself to be better and get better at what I was doing.
Q:
OK. And just the other part to my question was you brought up your sister. And you made a statement to the effect of like, so my sister doesn't have to have the same struggles that I have when I'm in school. What do you mean by that? Or tell me more about that. What does
that-GREGORY
Say as Black males, we get judged definitely already because of what our uncle did or cousin
GRIFFIN:
or friend or something did. And it's just hard to grow up. And you get judged a whole lot differently. And it's hard, too, because from how we've been treated and what we do. And I was saying I don't want my sister to grow up with difficulties going to school us stuff like that, like racism.
Q:
OK.
GREGORY
Kids go to school, getting judged by their teachers and stuff like that. And teachers are not
GRIFFIN:
liking them. Racism is still a thing here in America for a while, for hundreds of years. And we still haven't found a way to get along with each other.
Q:
So you made a comment, said you feel like sometimes in the school kids get judged.
GREGORY
Yeah.
GRIFFIN: Q:
OK. What would be an example of that?
GREGORY
So say if you were hanging with a group of people and they were doing something. But the
GRIFFIN:
way-- well, let me rephrase that. So say you know you were with your friends or something and they robbed a store or something. You didn't know it was going on, and you would go to jail with them just because you were in the situation. You get judged because of what they did, not what you did.
Q:
And you feel like our schools do that sometimes?
GREGORY
Yeah.
GRIFFIN: Q:
OK. So I guess I'm still kind of thinking about making the world a better place. I guess I'm going to ask this. If you had a magic wand and someone said here, I'm going to give you this magic wand and you have the power to make the world a better place, the minute you flick it-once you flick it, what would that new world look like to you?
GREGORY
Well, you know how people imagine Heaven to be like. There is no violence or none of that, no
GRIFFIN:
hunger, no world hunger, no depression, nothing. Everyone is happy. Everyone is equal. We
are have the same-- we all are the same towards each other. And I'm saying, like-- hmm. What am I saying? Homeless people no longer be homeless. They have homes to go to. They have family. They have children. And a lot of these that-- diseases, stuff like that, that would be gotten rid of. Cancer, it's just a bad thing to have, anyway. A lot of diseases is unnecessary. A lot of people dying just because of the they want to get rid of their stress or whatever. Or drug addicts, they tend to do drugs because of how they feel inside. And the drug's the only way to get rid of the pain, or whatever. And they get addicted to drugs. They die from it, too. They have a heart attack or something. I'm saying they should get rid of drugs and all, everyone happy. Well, I'm not saying you don't feel pain. But you there's no reason for to be mad, sad, or anything like that. Q:
Or you find better ways to deal with it.
GREGORY
Yeah.
GRIFFIN: Q:
OK. What do you think people need-- this kind of ties into what you're talking about. Right? What do you think people need to make their lives better?
GREGORY
Just something to be happy for, and something to be grateful for, and something to-- you can
GRIFFIN:
go home and be happy. Say you had a long day. You were mad all day. You go home, something just makes you feel different all of a sudden. You know how kids, they have a bad day at school. They go home and and play the game, and their mood changes like that. Something just make you happy, make you feel better.
Q:
So now I'm going to kind of bring it back to the way we started the conversation. Right?
GREGORY
Mm-hmm.
GRIFFIN: Q:
We were talking about your neighborhood. Do you think a lot-- well, not your neighborhood. The old neighborhood you lived in. So do you feel or do you think a lot of what goes on in those types of neighborhoods stems from people not being happy with themselves?
GREGORY
Yes, or, what was going on at home. Some people just go out to get away from their parents
GRIFFIN:
or stuff like that, because they probably get abused or anything. Some people live with their friends just because they can't deal with what's going on at home. Some kids run away because they can't deal. A lot of stuff-- kids get kidnapped for no certain reason, just because someone wants to make money. You should find happiness somewhere else. With money, you don't necessarily always need money. There's a bunch of other ways to make you feel happy and make you love something.
Q:
Well, what would be some other ways? If I'm someone-- I'll give you an example. If I'm someone and I feel mad, I hate my life, ain't nothing to be happy about, what would be some other ways you would recommend to someone that came at you and said that?
GREGORY
Whatever you like to do, you got to put your heart to it and make it a-- find a job that will help
GRIFFIN:
you do with that. Say you say you hate your job and stuff, you just want to quit. You want to be by yourself. But what you like to do is something like, say if you wanted to-- you like to take pictures and stuff like that, or whatever. You would take pictures or whatever and make it into a job, post the pictures on social media. And that's what you like doing. You make money off that. And it just makes you feel better like that. Anything.
Q:
What do you do to make yourself feel better or to make situations better for you?
GREGORY
I like to play sports. Or if where I can't play a sport or something like that, I'll probably sing just
GRIFFIN:
to let my emotions go away. Yeah. Like basketball, you're in control of what happens. It's not on anybody else. You are in control. If you lose something-- or someone beats you, that's because you weren't in control. That's how I feel.
Q:
OK. How about with singing? How does that make you feel?
GREGORY
You said what?
GRIFFIN: Q:
How about the singing?
GREGORY
The singing? Oh, yeah. Say if you are like, sad. When you're singing your emotion come out.
GRIFFIN:
So you say what you want to say. It's why some rappers like to do what they do. They put their heart into music because that's the only thing they-- well, not the only thing they're good at, but one thing they're good at and they can find their self happy with doing it.
Q:
OK. You want to drop a bar real quick, or what?
GREGORY
No.
GRIFFIN: Q:
No? [LAUGHS] No, I'm just messing with you. So I guess with that said, right-- you say you're from Milwaukee.
GREGORY
Yeah.
GRIFFIN: Q:
One, what are your thoughts on your city?
GREGORY
Well, it is good and bad. The violence is terrible, the people you actually meet here are good.
GRIFFIN:
You can get influenced very well by someone you just met. Say if you had a superhero, you had to pick someone who influenced your life the most. You can meet someone just today and they influence your life a whole lot, or someone you've known for years and they barely did anything for you. It's good and bad where I live right now.
Q:
What's your vision for Milwaukee? What would you like to see from Milwaukee?
GREGORY
Some people aren't proud of growing up from here, like they know it's a bad place. But you
GRIFFIN:
just had to own it. And you yourself can make the city better by coming back and donating money or something like that to help the city better.
Q:
OK. What's something you would like to see the older generations do for Milwaukee?
GREGORY
You can get together and calm down. There's a lot of tension there between Milwaukee.
GRIFFIN:
People just don't like each other, or something like that. They can get over their beef or whatever, just from sitting down and talking instead of getting a gun and shooting somebody, taking your anger out on something.
Q:
So then just people just need to communicate, just talk?
GREGORY
Yeah.
GRIFFIN: Q:
Yeah? OK. Well, with that said, that will conclude our interview. I want to thank Greg. Thank you.
GREGORY
You're welcome.
GRIFFIN: Q:
Peace out, y'all.
GREGORY
All right.
GRIFFIN: