Today's paper: Wednesday, Oct. 16th by The Daily Princetonian

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Wednesday october 16, 2013 vol. cxxxvii no. 89

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In Opinion Rebecca Kreutter argues that writing seminar could use a revision, and guest columnist Duncan Hosie calls for more women to run for USG office. PAGE 4

Today on Campus 5 p.m.: The USG offers a free BodyCombat fitness class. A raffle for a free punch card will also be held. Dillon Gymnasium.

News & Notes U. to test emergency notification system

the university will test the Princeton Telephone and Email Notification System and the blue-light tower emergency broadcasting system this Friday. The announcement, which was sent to all undergraduates on Monday, comes a week after a report of gunshots in Nassau Hall prompted a major police response and an order to clear the area around the building. PTENS messages were sent to the University community during the incident through texts, emails and phone calls, but the bluelight towers were not used to broadcast messages. The blue-light towers were installed in the summer of 2012 and allow the University to broadcast emergency notifications to individuals unaffiliated with the University community who may be on campus. These individuals would not otherwise receive PTENS messages in the case of a campus emergency. The University last tested its notification systems in April.

Town no longer hiring sharpshooters to cull local coyote population

a proposed coyote-culling effort is no longer in consideration for the town of Princeton. Town officials, who had previously proposed hiring sharpshooters to reduce the growing coyote population in the area, decided against the idea Monday at a council meeting. The town’s Animal Control Advisory Committee recommended that the town council reverse the decision made earlier this month to launch a controlled hunt, The Times of Trenton reported. While researching the issue, the subcommittee determined that controlled hunts are typically ineffective in suburban areas like Princeton. Instead, officials will launch a public education campaign to inform residents how to deal with coyotes. The town of Princeton is estimated to contain 80 coyotes in two separate packs. Coyotes have been sighted by the Institute for Advanced Study and by the Princeton Community Village area, although these sightings do not necessarily represent the location of the packs. A dog and a few cats have reportedly been killed by coyotes.

ACADEMICS

Seminar traces history of slavery at Princeton

HUMAN NATURE, HUMAN RIGHTS, HUMAN DUTIES

By Catherine Duazo senior writer

Under the guidance of three instructors, five undergraduate students in HIS 402: Princeton and Slavery are working closely with historical documents in Mudd Library to attempt to understand how slavery influenced the early development of the University. Following the 2003 appointment of the Steering Committee on Slavery and Justice at Brown by president Ruth Simmons, Princeton is among a number of other universities that are now researching how slavery shaped their own educational institutions. History professor Martha Sandweiss teaches the class alongside University archivist Daniel Linke and postdoctoral fellow Craig Hollander. Sandweiss said that when she arrived at the University about four years ago, she was surprised that nobody had yet done a study similar to those conducted at Brown and elsewhere in Princeton, given the University’s reputation as the “most Southern of the Ivies.” “It was the school where Southern planters felt safe sending their sons, so it seemed to me there was probably an See SLAVERY page 3

SHANNON MCGUE :: SENIOR PHOTOGRAPHER

Roger Scruton, a visiting professor of philosophy, lectured on human rights in the Friend Center on Tuesday afternoon. LOCAL NEWS

Temporary supports not used before Dinky demolition By Patience Haggin news editor

Turner Construction Company, the firm leading the development of the Arts and Transit Neighborhood, did not make use of temporary supports to hold up the canopy of the Dinky station on Sept. 19, the day the canopy collapsed onto the railroad track bed, Turner Vice President

for Communications Chris McFadden confirmed to The Daily Princetonian Tuesday night. Turner’s summary incident report, authored by project executive Edward Card, was submitted to the University on Oct. 7 and to the town council on Tuesday. The report did not disclose that the demolition did not use the supports. Prior to the project, the com-

pany had determined that temporary supports were unnecessary. However, the company has found through its investigation that the structure was internally deteriorated in ways that were not previously apparent, McFadden confirmed. In the wake of the accident, the University has made plans to conduct a peer review of the demolition plans for the two structures

that are yet to be removed from the site, University Spokesperson Martin Mbugua confirmed. The plans, developed by Turner and its subcontractor LVI Demolition, will be reviewed by a team including a licensed engineer and a third-party project manager. The overhead canopy attached to the former Dinky station building collapsed on Sept. 19 as See DINKY page 2

LOCAL NEWS

ACADEMICS

U. hires Simpson Thacher & Bartlett for court tax defense

Firestone begins assigning lockers to seniors

By Patience Haggin news editor

The University has hired Simpson Thacher & Bartlett, one of the largest law firms in the world, to defend it in a court challenge to the school’s tax-exempt status. The firm, which was also involved in the 2002 lawsuit brought against the University by descendants of the Robertson family over donations made to the Wilson School’s graduate program, regularly represents major corporate clients. The University has also hired New Jersey-based firm Archer & Greiner as co-counsel.

University Counsel Hannah Ross and University Vice President and Secretary Robert Durkee ’69 both confirmed the hiring but declined to be comment on the decision. Neither Simpson Thacher & Bartlett nor Archer & Greiner responded to requests for comment. The University currently does not pay property taxes on most of its land, in keeping with an exemption granted by New Jersey law to educational institutions. The challenge began in 2011, when a group of local residents sued the University to challenge the tax-exemption status of 19 campus buildings, arguing

that the facilities were used for non-educational uses. The plaintiffs have now added an additional charge alleging that the University is not qualified for the tax exemption because it in fact makes money and distributes profits, especially proceeds from patents registered by the University. Since this charge was added, the case has gained increased media attention, including an oped on the suit published in The Wall Street Journal last summer. The case appeared before a New Jersey tax court judge in June, when the University See LAWSUIT page 2

By Do-Hyeong Myeong contributor

Seniors are being assigned new lockers in Firestone Library starting this week, according to an email sent to a portion of the senior class Tuesday morning with instructions to pick up their locker assignments. The email instructed seniors to stop by the library’s Privileges Office for their assignments by Nov. 30. Lockers not picked up by Nov. 30 will be reassigned to students on the waiting list, the email said. Rising seniors were asked to apply online for a locker last spring, which are assigned based on students’ department and application date, accord-

ing to the application. According to Firestone’s website, locker assignments are usually sent out some time in September. Director of Library Finance and Administration Jeffrey T. Rowlands said that additional assignments will be sent out later this week. Until last year, seniors in the humanities and social sciences were traditionally assigned blue metal carrels as they wrote their theses. However, due to a number of inconveniences — safety requirements, energy efficiency, increase in student body, accessibility to disabled students and access to wireless Internet — the library decided to replace the old metal carrels with new lockers and open See LIBRARY page 3

ACADEMICS

Yavetz ’14 provides novel framework for why satellites stay in orbit By Corinne Lowe contributor

In the course of writing his junior paper, astrophysics major Tomer Yavetz ’14 developed a novel theoretical framework for why satellites stay in orbit around the Earth. Over the summer, Yavetz cowrote a paper with his adviser, Institute of Advanced Study astrophysicist Scott Tremaine, that was submitted in September to the American Journal of Physics. Taking into account different effects that result from the fact that the Earth isn’t perfectly spherical, along with the effects of the moon and sun on satellite orbit, Yavetz’s paper provided an explanation for how satellites remain in orbit even with all these imperfections in the gravitational field. “We just basically compiled all those together, and we tried to say why is it that when you add those all together you get satellites that stay up,” he explained.

Sukrit Ranjan, a Harvard graduate student studying astronomy who wrote a review of Yavetz’s paper in the daily scientific journal Astrobites, said that the paper made an original contribution to the literature on satellites. “As far as I’m aware, this article is one of the first that really breaks down these perturbations and looks at them rigorously and analytically and says, ‘Here’s a theoretical framework for why these satellites are stable,’ ” he said. Tremaine said that he first came up with the idea for Yavetz’s JP while reflecting on extrasolar planets, his area of expertise, and how their orbits are often similar to those of satellites around Earth. Yavetz said that he found Tremaine’s idea the most interesting of the options available for his JP. “Because there’s such a wide variety of configurations in extrasolar planets we know of and other planets and solar systems we know of, I began thinking about what the general properties of See SATELLITE page 3

ARIEL FUTTER :: CONTRIBUTING PHOTOGRAPHER

Tomer Yavetz ’14 developed a theoretical framework for why satellites stay up in his junior paper. Yavetz and his adviser submitted a paper for publication in September.

The Daily Princetonian

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Wednesday october 16, 2013

Turner did not disclose lack of temporary demolition supports in report to U. DINKY

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a result of an intentional attempt to remove the canopy that went awry. The report was submitted in response to requests that Council members made last month for an investigation into the cause of the collapse. On the day of the accident, construction employees cut a two-foot section of the canopy connecting it to the station building, with plans to remove the canopy over the next two days. The collapse, which occurred around 4:30 p.m. after the workers had left for the day, prompted a search-and-rescue mission to determine whether any workers or students had been trapped under the canopy. Industry standards stipulate

that temporary supports such as lumber or scaffolding should have been used to support the canopy before its removal, according to Barry Schmidt, the president of Schmidt Construction Consulting. “Relocating an old structure is not routine. So there’s always a high probability of something going wrong, but that should be understood by those involved,” Schmidt said in reference to the accident, adding that the weakness in the structure may have been related to the canopy’s age. The procedure used to remove the Dinky canopy was rare and should have been supervised by a licensed engineer who specializes in this procedure, Schmidt said. He added that it should have been the engineer’s responsibility to ensure that there were suffi-

cient temporary supports in place to hold up the structure. Prior to the removal procedure, Turner and LVI employees inspected the canopy structure and determined it was sufficient to uphold the canopy, McFadden said. The companies did not call upon an engineer to design and install a temporary support structure of any kind. Turner subcontracted the demolition work to two firms: The canopy demolition was contracted to LVI Demolition Services, Inc., while the platform demolition was contracted to EIC Associates, Inc. Representatives from Turner and LVI made plans for the removal of the canopy at a walkthrough meeting on Sept. 5, the report said. They planned to raise workmen in a scissor lift under

Plaintiffs in suit contend U. does not qualify for tax-exempt status LAWSUIT Continued from page 1

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requested to have the case dismissed. The judge denied the request, attorneys representing both sides of the case have confirmed. The buildings whose exemption is challenged in the suit include McCosh Health Center, Frist Campus Center, Richardson Auditorium and McCarter Theatre. Also included is 48 University Place, which houses several student publications, including The

Daily Princetonian. In 2002, the University was sued by the Robertson Foundation over a 1961 $35 million donation given by the Robertson family to fund the Wilson School’s graduate programs. The family had asked that the money be used to educate graduate students preparing for careers in government, and their descendants alleged in the suit that the University had instead been using the funds to train students for a broader range of careers, including those in the private sector. The University reached

the canopy to cut a section of the wood rafters that attached the canopy to the south Dinky station building. This section needed to be removed prior to demolishing the canopy in order to avoid potential damage to the station building, according to the report. Demolition work and debris removal for the canopy structure was scheduled to be completed over two days, beginning on Sept. 19. Representatives of Turner and LVI met at 7 a.m. on Sept. 19 to plan for the canopy demolition scheduled for that day, where they reportedly reinstalled the site fence to ensure the site’s security and reviewed the equipment to be used in the procedure. LVI workers cut a two-foot wide section from the canopy at approximately 2:30 p.m. They left for

the day at 3:15 p.m. About half an hour later, an LVI foreman and a Turner superintendent visually observed the canopy structure and found no evidence that the canopy was exhibiting stress or had become misaligned, according to the report. A senior project manager for Turner also saw no evidence of stress when he observed the structure at approximately 4 p.m. Turner learned of the collapse at approximately 4:30 p.m., after it was notified by the University’s Department of Public Safety, the report states. Turner then notified LVI of the incident and had the site cordoned off. Emergency rescue teams from multiple state and local agencies searched the area to confirm that no one had become trapped under the debris. They completed their

search at about 9:30 p.m., when the University and Turner began cleanup operations. To continue the debris removal process, representatives from Turner and LVI met at the site on Sept. 20 at 7 a.m., where they again reconfirmed the site’s security and reviewed the equipment to be used for the debris removal. The removal was finally completed by LVI at approximately 1:30 p.m.. Turner is one of the largest contractors in the nation, according to the Engineering News-Record. On Monday, a man was killed in an accident on a Turner-managed construction site at Levi’s Stadium in Santa Clara, Calif., according to CBS San Francisco. It was the second death to occur at the site. Turner’s summary report will be discussed at an Oct. 28 meeting of the town council.

THE TERRORIST’S DILEMMA

a settlement with the Foundation in 2008 that allowed it to retain the endowment but pay certain fees to the Foundation. The town of Princeton is also listed as a defendant in the suit, as plaintiffs allege that the town tax assessor has incorrectly listed the properties in question as taxexempt. Local lawyer Bruce Afran, who is representing the plaintiffs, also represents several clients in unrelated suits challenging the University’s move of the Dinky station.

CORRECTION Due to a reporting error, the Oct. 15 article “U. debate on climate change grows heated at physics colloquium” implied that professor Michael Oppenheimer attended the Oct. 10 talk given by professor William Happer GS ‘64. Oppenheimer did not attend. Due to an editing error, an earlier version of the Oct. 15 article “Online courses ‘here to stay,’ argues Bowen” misstated the position of former University President William Bowen GS ‘58 on the relationship between online education and state funding. He believes cost savings made possible by state funding are not the driving force in reducing state funding for education. The ‘Prince’ regrets the errors.

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JENNY JIANG :: CONTRIBUTING PHOTOGRAPHER

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Jacob Shapiro, an assistant politics professor, spoke about his new book, “The Terrorist’s Dilemma: Managing Violent Covert Organizations,” on Tuesday afternoon in Dodds Auditorium in Robertson Hall.

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Wednesday october 16, 2013 LOCAL NEWS

Falafel restaurant Mamoun’s to open Princeton location in January By Emily Tseng managing editor

New York-based falafel restaurant Mamoun’s may open its Princeton location in January, owner Hussam Chater said Tuesday. Chater, who now oversees all aspects of his father Mamoun’s business with his brothers Kinan, Galal and Nedal, had previously estimated a fall 2013 opening date for the newest branch of his family’s restaurant chain. Mamoun’s serves Middle Eastern cuisine, including falafel and shawarma sandwiches, tabbouleh and baba ghanoush at budget prices, according to its website. The Princeton restaurant will occupy the storefront at 20 Witherspoon St. between the Subway sandwich shop and local Greek deli Olives. The family purchased the building last year, the Times of Trenton reported in July, and has received approval from the town’s Historic Preservation Commission to figure out how its storefront might conform with town standards for historical buildings. “We’re in the permit process right now, and we’re hoping for a quick turnaround so we can begin construction,” Chater said. “We’d love to open as soon as possible,

but with the way construction processes go, realistically we’ll be opening in January.” The new falafel restaurant will be opening on the site of what used to be a mattress store. Converting that “clean slate” space to a restaurant will take more time in permit-processing than expected, Chater explained. The Princeton restaurant will be the chain’s sixth location, after its flagship location, one more New York City location on St. Mark’s Place, one location in Hoboken, one in New Haven, Conn. and one in New Brunswick. Chater said he expects the Princeton restaurant to look more like the chain’s roomier Hoboken and New Haven locations than its smaller New York City “hole-in-the-wall” falafel joints, but he added that the Princeton location will “look fancier than Hoboken.” “In all other locations, we were always constrained by the site we had and the way the spot was built, but here we have an empty slate,” Chater said. “We have a lot more to work with.” Expanding to Princeton has always been a goal, Chater said. “If we had a choice, we probably would’ve opened in Princeton first,” he said, “but space and opportunity as it turns out was

more available in the city.” “It’s a very special town,” Chater added. “It’s got a lot of history, a lot of robustness.” The Mamoun’s business model is ideally suited for college towns, Chater said. One of the locations in New York City is located near the campus of New York University, the New Brunswick location is next to Rutgers University and the New Haven location is close to Yale University. “Our brand is a simple, homelike environment,” Chater said. “I think college towns appreciate it, and older generations do as well.” Chater also said he hoped prices at the Princeton location would be “very, very close, if not the same, to prices in the city,” but added that it would depend on how market conditions develop once the restaurant has opened. “Hopefully volume is the same as in New York City and we’re able to keep the prices the same,” Chater said, “but unfortunately it’s very hard to replicate the volume of people who come through in the city at these locations.” A falafel sandwich at Mamoun’s in New Haven and New Brunswick currently costs $3.50, according to menus on Mamoun’s website. The same sandwich costs $3.00 at both New York City locations and in Hoboken.

Personal lockers replace metal carrels LIBRARY Continued from page 1

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wooden carrels as part of the Firestone renovation project, University Librarian Karin Trainer explained in an Oct. 14 interview. Some seniors, while indifferent to the slight delay in locker assignments, expressed disappointment at the lack of formal explanation or official update of the situation. Slavic languages and literature major Jae Kyu Lee ’14 said that, as of Tuesday, he and the majority of his friends had not yet been assigned a locker. While Lee explained he personally does not think this delay

is problematic since it is “still early in semester and many seniors haven’t got to intense research level yet,” he said he was quite confused about the delay. “I wish I at least heard some news or update so that I know what’s going on and when can I expect to get my locker,” Lee added. Trainer explained on Monday, a day before the locker assignments were released, that the library was “still experimenting with the lockers.” “Everyone who’s writing a thesis will have a locker very soon,” she said. She added that an additional 120 lockers will be assigned by the end of this week. Along with individual locker

assignments under new library arrangement, each student will also be free to choose any of the unassigned open carrels. Unlike the old carrels, which were shared by two or three students, both lockers and carrels are now available for individual use. According to Trainer, the new carrels have better lights and more electrical outlets and are accessible to students with wheelchairs. Six prototypes of the new carrels can be found on Firestone’s A floor. The replacement of old carrels is part of phase 2A of the Firestone Library renovation. The phase is intended to be finished by the end of this year, according to the Firestone renovation website.

Yavetz ’14 used manual calculations SATELLITES Continued from page 1

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stability in satellite orbits are and how that plays out in the case of the Earth,” Tremaine said. After Tremaine reviewed the JP and suggested theoretical additions, he and Yavetz cowrote the paper. Yavetz’s JP differs from other publications in astrophysics in its use of manual calculations rather than the computational simulations that dominate the field, Yavetz said. “It was a lot of penciland-paper calculations,” he explained. “I love these. I think these are the most intriguing

and fun problems to work on.” Ranjan said he was also excited by Yavetz’s reliance on manual calculations. “That was something really exciting to me because I thought the age for that kind of science had kind of passed,” he said. The published paper could help astrophysicists understand what configurations of other planets and stars will be stable, Yavetz said. “It’s an interesting teaching problem. And it’s certainly an interesting thing to think about when we’re starting to imagine other worlds,” he noted. “We could easily imagine a world where the way things work out isn’t the way things work out here and you wouldn’t actually be able to have satellites.”

While the paper is novel in that it provides a theoretical understanding of what makes satellites stable, Tremaine said that it will not change the way satellites are actually launched into orbit. “The paper doesn’t contain results in the sense that obviously the people who put satellites up — the engineers who design the best orbit for a satellite — understand, whether the satellite orbit is stable or not,” he said. “What we were trying to do was to provide a physical explanation for what properties of the earth’s gravitational field or what properties of gravitational fields in general make a difference between a stable and an unstable satellite orbit.”

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Slavery course follows Brown’s lead SLAVERY Continued from page 1

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interesting story to be found here because Princeton had so many ties to the South, really from the moment of its founding,” she explained. Sandweiss first taught the course during the spring 2013 semester with a focus on the slaveholding practices of University students. This semester focuses more on slavery’s role in the 18th-century financial contributions, like donations and investments, to the University and where the money that built the institution came from. Hollander is working on the project as a Behrman postdoctoral fellow. He was hired specifically to help co-teach the course, as required by his fellowship, and then take over for Sandweiss when she goes on leave in the spring 2014 semester. While Sandweiss offers expertise in public history — or the presentation of research findings and creation of an appropriate vehicle for disseminating information to outside academia — Hollander said that he brings to the class his own expertise in American slavery during the late 18th and 19th centuries. While the investigation into the University’s roots in slavery has been confined to one course, the project at Brown encompassed a much larger scope, Sandweiss said, adopting more of a top-down approach that was organized and paid for by the administration. The Brown committee included faculty members, undergraduate and graduate students and administrators. Along with investigating the university’s historical relationship to slavery, the committee’s 2006 report made a number of recommendations for public

forums and freshman orientation programs to discuss the issue, as well as the creation of a center to continue research on slavery and justice. “We cannot change the past. But an institution can hold itself accountable for the past, accepting its burdens and responsibilities along with its benefits and privileges,” the report read. “In the present instance, this means acknowledging and taking responsibility for Brown’s part in grievous crimes.” Despite the lack of faculty and graduate student involvement in Sandweiss’ project, she said that she believes this is work that undergraduates can do as well. The Brown report was followed by an undergraduate class at Harvard in fall 2007, which investigated Harvard’s own part in slavery. The class made its findings available on a comprehensive website, “Harvard and Slavery: Seeking a Forgotten History.” In Princeton’s course, students will have a similar opportunity to create their own research projects. They will have access to relevant primary sources from Mudd Library, including faculty minutes, trustees’ minutes, files on students and land records to understand how the campus was acquired. Unlike most other courses, the students’ findings will extend beyond a Dean’s Date paper. The class is now discussing how it would like its research to be released to the public, Hollander said. He explained that ideas include creating a smartphone app that would include a walking tour of the University, videos and an interactive timeline. They are currently in talks with the computer science department to collaborate on further developing this project. “We could interface with different departments that ordinarily would have nothing to

do with this kind of public history endeavor,” Hollander said. “We’re going to really make this an institutionalized project.” History major Brett Diehl ’15 said that he enrolled in the course because the opportunity allowed him to discuss a major topic in American history and frame it more locally. “Sometimes doing history with a global perspective is like you’re one in a sea of many,” Diehl said. “This [project] is directly retelling our past and trying to interpret where … [our school’s] roots lie with respect to something that we can all unilaterally agree is pretty troubling.” The course was sponsored in its first year by the Council of Humanities with a grant from the David A. Gardner ’69 Magic Project, and it continued its support of the project with Hollander’s postdoctoral position. Sandweiss said that she will not be submitting student work to the administration, but they will have access to the information when it is made publicly available. University spokesperson Martin Mbugua, responding on behalf of Dean of the College Valerie Smith, whose office oversees the undergraduate curriculum, declined to provide the administration’s perspective on the course. “I think that with something as sensitive as slavery, I think that it’s really positive that they [members of the administration] seem to understand that this should be run by people who understand the material and the context,” Hollander said. “I’m sure we’ll have higherlevel meetings when the time comes, when we’re ready to go live, but I think for right now they’re being very hands-off and very supportive because I think they understand that this should be handled by the experts on campus.”

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Opinion

Duncan Hosie

guest contributor

We need more women

Wednesday october 16, 2013

{ www.dailyprincetonian.com }

Revising writing sem

exism thrives at Princeton and in America. Yet misogyny is particularly forceful in one domain of our campus and society: politics. During the 2008 presidential campaign, hecklers confronted Hillary Clinton, encouraging the then-senator to “iron my shirt” and “make me a sandwich.” Marc Rudov, a contributor to Fox News, argued on national television, “When Barack Obama speaks, men hear: ‘Take off for the future.’ And when Hillary Clinton speaks, men hear, ‘Take out the garbage.’ ” The blatant bigotry wasn’t limited to a few isolated reactionaries. Respectable newspapers regularly included updates on Clinton’s hair, dress and makeup. (I don’t recall any stories about John McCain’s ill-fitting suits.) Clinton had to deal with charges from mainstream reporters that she was “shrill” and “emotional.” Lamentably, misogyny continues to follow Clinton. Just last week, elected delegates at the California Republican convention circulated anti-Clinton buttons that declared, “KFC Hillary Special: 2 Fat Thighs, 2 Small Breasts ... Left Wing. And it’s not just Clinton. In 2008, prominent liberals dismissed Sarah Palin as a “goodlooking beauty queen” and a “dumb twat” instead of focusing on her policy proposals. Ostensibly serious reporters asked Palin about whether she received breast augmentation surgery and whether she was neglecting her children by running for vice president. Personally, I believe Senator Clinton lost her 2008 campaign because of sexism from the media and voters themselves. I also believe that sexism contributed, in part, to the resounding defeat of the McCain/Palin ticket. But this sexism does not just impact Clinton or Palin. The double standard that female candidates face, and the lack of popular outrage over the egregious treatment they receive from the media, sends a dangerous message to all American women. It suggests that the highest offices of American government are reserved for men, that women would be better off pursuing other careers and that politics itself is a men’s sport. American politics remains a men’s sport. Consider any level of American government. Municipal level? Among America’s 100 most populous cities, only 12 have female mayors. State level? Five states have female governors. Nationally? One out of every five members of Congress is female. According to the UN 2012 Women in Politics report, the United States is ranked 78th internationally in terms of the number of women elected to legislative or parliamentary bodies. We’re tied with Turkmenistan. Unfortunately, this is Princeton’s problem, too. With upcoming USG elections, it’s time to have a conversation about the role sexism plays in our own campus politics. According to the 2011 report of the Steering Committee on Undergraduate Women’s Leadership, there has been only one female USG president since 1994. In other words, Princeton has only had one female USG president in my lifetime, even though elections occur every year. Additionally, the report notes, “in the past 10 years, a woman ran for USG president only in 2003, 2007 and 2010.” Since then, Catherine Ettman ’13 ran for president in 2011 and faced criticism during the campaign that she was shrill. The report also observed that class presidents “tend to be male,” as do other prominent positions in campus life (for example, the editors-in-chief of this newspaper). Each current Princeton class president is male. And just last week, the freshmen voted in Class Council elections. They elected four males and one female. The one woman elected also received the fewest votes out of the five winners. If we want to increase women in government on the national level, we have to start on the collegiate level. By the time women are in college, they are much less likely to run for office, to win that office if they do run and to consider pursuing politics in the future. According to the Women & Politics Institute at American University, men aged 18-25 are twice as likely to have considered running for office later in life “many times.” The same study found that women aged 18-25 are 20 percent more likely, relative to men, to have never considered running for political office. The study contends that these gaps don’t fade over time; they persist for women’s entire lives. This is not just a women’s issue. I’m a man, and I am equally harmed when our elected public servants, whether they be at Princeton or the marbled halls of Congress, don’t represent all of us. I believe that representative government needs to be, well, representative. Democracy depends on diversity. Ultimately, without full female representation, I don’t think USG or any elected body can truly reflect the people. Women of Princeton: We need you. I hope all undergraduate women reading this column will consider running for USG office. This University has made enormous progress in becoming more accepting of women. Since 1973, graduating classes at Princeton have been co-ed; since 1991, all eating clubs have accepted female members. We still have work to do, though. Of course, misogyny manifests itself in many forms on campus other than just USG elections. But making sure that the public face of undergraduates truly reflects all students is an important, and powerful, place to start. Duncan Hosie is a sophomore from Belvedere, Calif. He can be reached at dhosie@princeton.edu.

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Rebecca Kreutter

opinion editor emerita

reshman year, after dining hall acquaintances have exhausted standard small talk on the weather — “Winter’s coming” — and last Saturday’s happenings — “You will not believe how late I went to bed” — there is one topic left sure to fill any lulls in conversation. Bring up writing seminar, and you’re set. Whether you’re complaining, commiserating or anticipating with dread, the words will flow on paper like they never do at 3 a.m. when the first revision is due. Writing seminar is designed, as its website states, to help students “build a solid foundation for their later work at Princeton, including junior independent work and the senior thesis.” The Outcomes Statement for writing seminar elucidates this goal, targeting thesis development, research and bibliographical skills, organized and expressive ideas, active revision and dialogue creation. While writing seminar does a decent job of addressing the writing aspect of independent work, it prepares students poorly for what it means to do independent research. No matter what type of high school students come from, resources were sparse compared to the diversity of databases, journals, books, audio files, personal notes and more that fill our 13 libraries and countless online platforms. In high school, research consisted of Google quests and perhaps the

occasional key-term search in JSTOR or EBSCOhost. These are the skills we bring to college. Currently, writing seminars attempt to teach students about research. Freshmen venture to Firestone, meet a librarian and have a conversation about Princeton resources. These skills are supposedly internalized in the end-ofthe-year research paper. After dutifully hearing about Princeton’s resources and the usefulness of reaching out to librarians, we turn back to Articles+ and start in with the key terms. This can work for a year or two when papers are based on in-class work, but when junior year comes around these high school skills no longer get the job done. Some may argue that junior seminars are where students can learn more concretely about research methodology. After all, isn’t that what many junior seminars are designed for? For example, junior seminar taught me to search for relevant peer-reviewed journals to see what topics are being discussed in a given field and to create a citation tree to find the most common and influential articles in a topic. By the time junior seminar comes up, however, students are already expected to be ready to start independent, unique, high-level research. At this point, seminars begin to teach students specific research methods related to their concentration. A basic level of research proficiency is assumed. The problem is, it is just not there for most people. In order to better prepare students for independent work, the stated goal of writing seminar, it should focus equally on academic writing and academic research.

vol. cxxxvii

It would be more productive for both students and their advisers down the road if, instead of writing three papers over the semester, students wrote one small paper, spent the next month or more practicing concrete research skills and then finished up with a research paper. The research assignments would necessarily be overly pedantic, asking students to find a specific dataset such as “Ghanaian public opinion on the United States’ war on terrorism.” Professors could assign students a particular topic and have students identify the major names in that field, sketch out the development of the topic, summarize the history and talk about one potential field of research that could be explored. The end goal in these assignments would be high-quality research and would not involve arguing a thesis. This change would require some extra work from librarians and writing seminar professors, but then less guidance would be required in later years. Writing seminar is the ideal time and venue for getting students to think critically about their writing skills and more importantly about their research skills. Freshmen come to campus expecting to make changes to their habits in order to adapt to college, whereas juniors facing JP deadlines rush through with old, inefficient habits. Integrating research into the curriculum would also allow students to learn, fail and relearn research skills without the time pressure of independent work, allowing writing seminar to live up to its mission. Rebecca Kreutter is a Wilson School major from Singapore, Singapore. She can be reached at rhkreutt@princeton.edu.

you just have to pull through

Luc Cohen ’14

editor-in-chief

Grace Riccardi ’14

business manager managing editor Emily Tseng ’14 news editors Patience Haggin ’14 Anastasya Lloyd-Damnjanovic ’14 opinion editor Sarah Schwartz ’15 sports editor Stephen Wood ’15 street editor Abigail Williams ’14 photography editors Monica Chon ’15 Merrill Fabry ’14 copy editors Andrea Beale ’14 Erica Sollazzo ’14 design editor Helen Yao ’15 web editors Sarah Cen ’16 Adrian De Smul ’14 multimedia editor Christine Wang ’14 prox editor Daniel Santoro ’14 intersections editor Amy Garland ’14 associate news editor Catherine Ku ’14 associate news editor for enterprise Marcelo Rochabrun ’15 associate opinion editors Richard Daker ’15 Tehila Wenger ‘15 associate sports editors Damir Golac ‘15 Victoria Majchrzak ’15 associate street editors Urvija Banerji ’15 Catherine Bauman ’15

jon robinson gs

associate photography editors Conor Dube ’15 Lilia Xie ’14

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associate copy editors Dana Bernstein ’15 Jennifer Cho ’15 associate design editor Allison Metts ’15 associate multimedia editor Rishi Kaneriya ’16 editorial board chair Ethan Jamnik ’15

NIGHT STAFF 10.15.13

news Monica Chon ’15 Do-Hyeong Myeong ’17 copy Rebekah Shoemake ’17 Anqi Dong ’16 Summer Ramsay-Burrough ’17 Marlyse Vieira ’17 Lily Lesser ’17 design Jean-Carlos Arenas ’16 Gerry Lerena ’16 Morgan Taylor ’15

What a No. 1 ranking could actually mean Marni Morse

contributing columnist

don’t really know what I want to do with my life, but I know I want to change the world. Maybe something small, maybe something big, but I want to make a difference — leave my mark. Many of my freshman classmates share these hopes and ambitions with little idea how to achieve them. But that doesn’t worry me. After all, Princeton is supposed to be “in the nation’s service and the service of all nations.” The faculty and administrators have to be able to provide some guidance over the next four years. Right? It’s the numbers that worry me. According to The New York Times, almost 36 percent of Princeton graduates in 2010 with full-time jobs were in financial services. And that was down from the high of 46 percent in 2006 before the recession. Around campus I see the posters for lectures by Wall Street executives and CEOs of Fortune 500 companies. I can’t even escape the presence of big business in my room. I keep opening emails about finance career open houses and interviews on campus. And I’m only a freshman. Don’t get me wrong. Students who

want to go into financial services and consulting should be able to do so. But the heavy emphasis on these fields makes it seem like more is going on than just providing opportunities to those interested; it seems that the University, by providing ample information and opportunities to interview for Wall Street companies, is trying to convince other students who are unsure of what career they want to pursue that working in finance is a good idea. Maybe it’s partly a prestige thing; we, as a society, value money or think more highly of someone making a lot of money than we think of someone in public service. And Wall Street makes it so easy for Princeton students to obtain those jobs people hold in high regard. We associate income with achievement. It’s like an extension of the competitive college environment; when we graduate, we want the “best” jobs. Companies come to campus and wine and dine the students; it’s very seductive. Public service groups can’t compete. But is this cajolery enough to squash the naive dreams many students walk through FitzRandolph Gate with? We like to blame the mass exodus to Wall Street on students needing high-paying jobs to repay the massive college debt hanging over them. But Princeton and its peer institutions

provide financial aid without resorting to loans. As President Eisgruber has boasted, 75 percent of Princeton graduates have absolutely no college debt, and the remaining 25 percent have an average debt of between $5,000 and $6,000. Princeton students, therefore, are free to go into whatever field they desire, not just one that pays well. We also have a high ranking in terms of alumni donations. U.S. News & World Report ranked Princeton second, with 62.4 percent of its alumni donating to the school. Of course, it’s great that former students love the school so much that they want to contribute funds. It means we have the largest endowment per student in the country and, thus, current students can enjoy a fantastic four years in the Orange Bubble. But, given these statistics, it seems undeniable that the University is benefiting from graduates making a lot of money in fields like consulting and investment banking. Princeton works with companies, making it easy for them to recruit students. After all, the ensuing Wall Street conscription benefits both institutions. The companies enlist bright young graduates, and the school ends up with richer alumni. But is it the students’ interest in these firms that leads the University to encourage the companies to come here, or does the presence of these

firms on campus generate the interest from the students? CNN ranked Princeton as the numberone college in the United States with the highest-ranked graduates based on wages, with an average starting salary of $58,300 and a mid-career salary at $137,000. Yet, according to the same survey, only 49 percent of us think our job is meaningful. Should the University really be steering us into wealthy but unfulfilling adulthoods? I don’t know exactly what I want to do in life, but I know it doesn’t involve sitting in an office crunching numbers. And I really hope that when I am nearing graduation I don’t feel pressured to work on Wall Street and have been presented with viable alternative endeavors. I hope that we students can be more concerned about enriching each other in the classroom and less about making ourselves rich. Maybe when there is less University pressure pushing us in one direction, more students will trade in high salaries for a career they find more meaningful. And while we won’t be number one in average salaries or in donations to the University, perhaps not all number-one rankings should make us proud. Marni Morse is a freshman from Washington, D.C. She can be reached at mlmorse@princeton.edu.

LETTER TO THE EDITOR

................................................................. Regarding “Former U. President Bowen GS ’58 argues online education is “here to stay”” (Tuesday, Oct. 15, 2013) Your coverage of my Stafford Little Lecture, “Academia Online,” contains a serious error. I did not say that online education has encouraged state legislatures to curb funding for public institutions. On the contrary, as I said in the lecture, there is strong evidence that

intelligent use of online technologies can encourage state legislators to be more generous to public universities than they would have been otherwise. (An endnote to my talk — to be available soon on the ITHAKA website — contains a strong statement to this effect by the very able chancellor of the University System of Maryland, William “Brit” Kirwan.) Cuts in state funding for public higher education are a serious matter, but they are caused by factors other than advances in

technology. Wrongheaded uses of minimalist versions of online technology can tempt governors to try and use technology to provide education “on the cheap” — but these temptations can and should be resisted, as all of us work to find more and more effective ways to use technology to improve educational outcomes in cost-effective ways. William G. Bowen GS ’58 President Emeritus, Princeton University

The Daily Princetonian

Wednesday october 16, 2013

page 5

Dual citizen has record day vs. Navy JEREMIC Continued from page 6

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them a lot, and they were recruiting me, and I was really into it.” The summer between his junior and senior year, however, things changed for Jeremic. “Something clicked,” he said, and he decided that he wanted an excellent academic experience in addition to a strong collegiate athletic team. “I was like, ‘There’s more to life than water polo.’ And then I got back to the email and started talking to the coach,” he said. After that it was a nobrainer for Jeremic. Princeton is the closest thing he can get to the best of both worlds, he says — it offers the highest level of academic opportunity and the best wa-

ter polo program on the East Coast. “Everything I would see in a team and what a team would do, that’s what we

“‘There’s more to life than water polo.’” freshman Jovan Jeremic

do,” he said. “We hang out together; we eat together; it’s just like this family that I’ve really strived to have in a team.” The connection he shares with his teammates on land

translates into the water. In the Tigers’ Oct. 12 game against Navy, Jeremic put eight goals in the back of the net, tying for the second-highest in a single game in program history and the most in over a decade. “After you reach a certain point, you read each other’s mind, and that really clicked during that game,” Jeremic said. “I just started receiving the ball at perfect times.” Though Bucknell ruined Princeton’s perfect Southern Division record on Sunday with a 12-5 win over the Tigers, Jeremic and the No. 12 Princeton squad will be in a good position as they play for the Southern Division Championship on Nov. 9. The Tigers will next play for the Ivy League Championship on Oct. 20, in which they are the first seed.

CONOR DUBE :: FILE PHOTO

Freshman Jovan Jeremic scored three of Princeton’s four goals against No. 2 Southern California on Sept. 28.

Tiger offense jumps in second half Freshman leads undefeated JV squad M. SOCCER Continued from page 6

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Costa additionally managed three shots. In this penultimate nonleague game — Princeton’s only non-Ivy opponent remaining

being American University — the Tigers outshot their opponents by a margin of 12-9, with an 8-1 advantage in corner kicks. In addition to the keeper, three of the four players on Princeton’s backline played the entire 90 minutes. Seniors Chris Benedict and Billy Mc-

Guinness, sophomore Josh Miller and junior midfielder Joe Saitta played the entirety of the match. The Tigers’ next matchup comes as they host Ivy League rival Columbia (5-3-2, 0-0-2) this Saturday at Roberts Stadium at 4 p.m.

KANOFF

Continued from page 6

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only Princeton player to be drafted since 2001. “I thought all along that if he was going to go to the scholarship level it was going to be Vanderbilt, but I think he is such a mature man, he is such a smart kid that if he had this opportunity to go to the top school in the country and play football at a very high level and develop and compete … I felt he was giving it an unbelievably serious consideration in terms of the possibility and when he came up on the visit I felt we really had a good chance because he fit in so well with the type of guy that we’ve brought here to Princeton,” Princeton head coach Bob Surace ’90 said. “I can’t really pick one reason why I chose Princeton [over Vanderbilt],” Kanoff said. “They’re both great schools, but for me, Princeton just feels right.” “When [a kid] tells me, ‘No, I’m fully committed; I’m signing with them,’ then

that’s when you take that as a no, but when they’re interested in talking to us, they’re interested in learning more about us, I take that as we have such a beautiful campus, it’s a great school … The more they learn about us, the more likely they’re going to be to make a very mature decision,” Surace added. Kanoff joins the Tigers as fourth on the depth chart behind juniors Connor Michelsen and Quinn Epperly and sophomore Kedric Bostic. While he has seen few varsity snaps this season, he has lead an undefeated junior varsity squad and, with the way the Tigers have been using their quarterbacks this season, there is no telling when those reps will come. “Chad’s getting better every day … and when we feel he’s better than the other guys, he’ll play,” Surace said. “If we don’t think he’s better than the other guys, we’ll keep working with him and he’ll keep developing. Just like those other guys, he’s very talented. I do think one of the fortunate things is we’re playing multiple

quarterbacks … all it takes is one injury, and he’s gotta feel like [he’s] the numbertwo guy because when you’re the fourth quarterback in our offense you’re really the second-string guy.” This isn’t the first time Kanoff has split time at quarterback. Until his junior year of high school, he shared snaps with a quarterback two years ahead of him. “The coaching staff … plays the guy who gives us the best chance of winning,” Kanoff said. In the meantime, Kanoff spends his time studying the playbook and focusing on his work in the classroom. “I’ve only really ruled out engineering and pre-med … everything else is still an option,” he says, noting that he’s also still deciding which extracurriculars he’ll pursue. No one knows when Tiger fans will see Kanoff taking snaps or where he could possibly take the team in the future, but it will be exciting for fans to see how his decision to become a Tiger plays out.

WOMEN’S SOCCER

DANIELA COSIO :: FILE PHOTO

The men’s soccer team will try to stay unbeaten in Ivy play when they face off against Colombia on Saturday.

T HE DA ILY

Someone take your ‘Prince’? Get your fix online. www.dailyprincetonian.com MERRILL FABRY :: FILE PHOTO

The women’s soccer team (4-4-3 overall, 0-3 Ivy League) will play Lehigh (3-7-2, 1-4 Patriot League) tonight at 7 pm in Roberts Stadium. The Tigers beat the Mountain Hawks 6-1 last season.

Sports

Wednesday october 16, 2013

page 6

{ www.dailyprincetonian.com } MEN’S SOCCER

F E AT U R E

No. 22 St. John’s Red Storm defeats Princeton on road By Andrew Steele staff writer

The men’s soccer team traveled to St. John’s Belson Field in Queens, N.Y. on Tuesday to take on the No. 22 Red Storm (9-5-4 overall, 4-3-1 Big East). The Tigers (4-5-1 overall, 1-01 Ivy League) fell 2-0, breaking their ST. JOHN’S 2 t h r e e PRINCETON 0 g a m e unbeaten run which most recently included a 0-0 double-overtime draw with Brown. Coming into the match, St. John’s held a 2-1-2 advantage in the all-time series. Princeton’s last win against this relatively unfamiliar opponent came with a 1-0 victory in 1995. Senior keeper Seth MacMillan was between the pipes for the game’s 90 minutes. Within the first minute he faced and saved a shot from St. John’s Sean Sepe, who proved to be a huge offensive threat for the Red Storm. At the 9:28 mark, Sepe intercepted a Princeton pass and found the back of the net from 15 yards out.

On the attack, the Tigers earned a pair of corner kicks. Junior defender Myles McGinley’s first service met senior midfielder Patrick O’Neil, whose shot went wide. His second delivery found junior striker Cameron Porter, which resulted in a deflected shot. The half-hour mark saw Princeton bring in four substitutes. Shortly thereafter, Jimmy Mulligan tested MacMillan with a shot on goal. While the Tigers’ keeper responded with an impressive save, Mulligan lingered for a rebound opportunity, which he converted for the gamewinner. Junior defender Andrew Mills managed another shot on goal before the 45-minute mark, but the Tigers went into the second half down two goals. In the final 45 minutes, Princeton managed nine shots — and two on goal — to its opponents’ three, none of which tested MacMillan. Porter led the Tigers in shots with five and two on goal. Freshman midfielder Brian See M. SOCCER page 5

How a four-star recruit became a Tiger Rookie Kanoff decommitted from Vanderbilt to join Princeton By Hillary Dodyk & Stephen Li senior writers

At 6 feet 4 inches and 205 pounds, with a rocket arm and laser-like accuracy between the numbers, freshman quarterback Chad Kanoff looks the part of a prototypical pocket passer. In fact, his scouting report is eerily similar to that of current Indianapolis Colts starter Andrew Luck, who was a highly anticipated quarterback prospect when he entered Stanford in 2008 and was drafted first overall during the 2012 NFL draft after a stellar college career. Like Luck, Kanoff is an “excellent athlete for the position” and has “consistent mechanics and production” with “good size and the frame to really bulk up to become a real presence,” according to ESPN.com. The similarities between the two quarterbacks coming out of high school are

Rookie quarterback Chad Kanoff COURTESY OF GOPRINCETONTIGERS.COM

undeniable. Both Kanoff and Luck played in spread option systems in high school, posting impressive statistics both through the air and on the ground — Kanoff scored 85 total touchdowns in his high school career — on the way to garnering identical four-star and 82 (out of 100) ratings per ESPN. However, neither the coaching staff nor Kanoff is prepared to draw comparisons between him and Luck — or other big-time quarterbacks — just yet. “The college game is so different from high school,” Kanoff said. “Even though we run a similar offense, I’m still

learning to be a college quarterback.” Kanoff’s recruitment was one of the most surprising offfield developments for Princeton last year, especially because he wasn’t always set on playing for the Tigers. Kanoff was initially heavily recruited by Vanderbilt, a rising power in college football’s strongest conference, the SEC. “It was really cool at first,” Kanoff said of the recruiting process. “It’s the kind of thing you always dream of … but it got really tiring after a while.” The Commodores entered the picture months before Princeton began recruiting Kanoff because of Ivy League recruiting restrictions. He verbally committed to Vanderbilt in May of 2012, a few months after his junior season, and even signed a letter of intent with the team in February of 2013. The next month, at a late date by college recruiting standards, he changed his mind.

“My only comment is when it comes to any of my players and universities or colleges,” Kanoff’s high school coach at Harvard-Westlake, Scot Ruggles, said of Kanoff’s decision to attend Princeton instead of Vanderbilt, “[is that] at the end of the day, I do not care where my kids go, as long as they are happy.” With siblings at Dartmouth and Amherst, Kanoff and his family were evidently attracted to Princeton because of its academics, but what’s harder to understand is the competitive advantage the Tiger football program had over the Commodores. Vanderbilt has had 14 players drafted in the last decade, including first-round picks Jay Cutler, who currently starts at quarterback for the Chicago Bears, and Chris Williams, who starts at guard for the St. Louis Rams. On the other hand, former Tiger defensive end Mike Catapano ’13 is the See KANOFF page 5

F E AT U R E

8-goal game highlights Jeremic’s young career By Victoria Majchrzak associate sports editor

“The brutality foul requires that the offending player demonstrate obvious intent to injure another player. This is much more serious than mere violence,” the USA Water Polo website reads. “Brutality occurs very rarely.” Men’s water polo is an aggressive sport, but brutalities aren’t supposed to happen — not at a professional

level, not at a collegiate level and especially not at a high school level. The mark Jovan Jeremic bears, however, begs to differ. The scar that runs down the right side of the rookie’s neck has just begun to fade. Jeremic quite literally bears the mark of his sport’s ruthlessness. In his last summer before beginning to play for Princeton, Jeremic got a preview during a club game of the aggression he would see at the post-high school level

of water polo. “My cap fell backwards, but it was still tied around my neck, so I didn’t do anything,” Jeremic said. “I was swimming with it, and this guy comes up from behind me, grabs it, and starts choking me underwater. I was bleeding. I got out of the water, and I was gushing blood down my neck. It literally looked like I had hung myself.” Jeremic, who has scored 36 goals for Princeton so far

this season, emerged from the incident free of serious long-term consequences, but the offending player was not so lucky. The brutality foul he received meant that, should he get two more, he would not be allowed to play USA water polo ever again, Jeremic said. It was a taste of the physicality that Jeremic saw later that summer when he traveled to Serbia, his parents’ homeland, to practice with the national team. “It’s a completely different

style of water polo,” he said. “It’s more aggressive and a lot more lenient with the calls. It’s more fast-paced.” Water polo is also much more popular in Serbia. “It’s sort of like football in America,” said Jeremic, a dual citizen of Serbia and the United States. “You see commercials about it; people get endorsements to advertise water polo. It’s a pretty big thing, actually.” His grandfather, a huge water polo fan, had schemed

ROOKIE ROUNDUP GAMES PLAYED

GOALS

STEALS

ASSISTS

Jovan Jeremic

Drew Hoffenberg

rookie season so far

entire rookie season

SHIRLEY ZHU :: PRINCETONIAN DESIGN STAFF

Men’s water polo junior captain Drew Hoffenberg averaged 2.17 goals per game his rookie year. Freshman Jovan Jeremic is averaging 2.12 goals per game so far.

with his mother to get Jeremic onto a club team in Huntington Beach in order to improve the basketball skills that Jeremic said he lacked. Water polo would improve his ball control and hand-eye coordination and get him in better shape. As he grew older, though, Jeremic began to see that his career as a basketball player wasn’t going to pan out. “‘I’m still a diehard basketball fan, but I realized there’s no hope for me,” he said. “I can’t run; I can’t do anything, so I decided to not do land sports. Water only. And the first second I got in the water, I fell in love with the sport, and I’ve loved it ever since.” A much larger dilemma than basketball or water polo for Jeremic is the United States or Serbia. He says that he gets asked which country he would play for at the national level if given the chance, a question he seriously struggles to answer. “I mean, I grew up here; I’ve lived here for my entire life,” Jeremic said. “It’s the nostalgia that you want to play for your home country, your ‘motherland,’ but then I think, ‘But I was born here.’ It’s really weird. I don’t know.” Making the decision to come to Princeton wasn’t always clear cut either. When Jeremic first got an email from the Princeton water polo program his junior year of high school, he had all but completely discounted the prospect of coming to New Jersey. “I was just like, ‘Nah, Princeton, East Coast, not into that, whatever,’” Jeremic said. “I was really into USC, UCLA, like the big water polo schools, and I was talking to See JEREMIC page 5

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