Nation Profile
THOUGHT LEADERS
Narrative and Modern Ideological Warfare
Maajid Nawaz, author
Whoever controls the narrative controls the perception of reality
I
t’s a war over narrative,” says Maajid Nawaz, “and whoever gets to define the narratives around world events gets to define how those events are perceived and how we respond to them.” In this episode of “American Thought Leaders,” host Jan Jekielek and Nawaz, the author of “Radical: My Journey Out of Islamist Extremism,” discuss the World Economic Forum, the erosion of Western liberties, and the ways ideology shapes our world. JAN JEKIELEK: On a Ro-
MAAJID NAWAZ: I’m glad
you began with that quote. That’s the heart of modern ideological warfare. It’s a war over narrative, 52 I N S I G H T April 1–7, 2022
MR . JEKIELEK: You’ve
had a life that I think helps you look at this through a very wise lens.
ate. From the age of 16, I’d engaged in ideological debates. I attempted to undermine open democratic societies from within by ideological critique, not for the purpose of establishing a caliphate in the U.S. or in the UK, but to recruit Muslims who are born and raised in these countries to do what I did. I helped to set up Islamist revolutionary groups in the UK, Pakistan, and Denmark. I was in Egypt when I was detained after the 9/11 attacks. MR . JEKIELEK: How did
MR . NAWAZ: I was an
you begin doing that in the first place?
Islamist revolutionary who wanted to establish a caliph-
MR . NAWAZ: I was born
and raised in Essex in the UK. But how does a 16-yearold from there end up on that path? That was the time of the Bosnia genocide. The Srebrenica Massacre left 6,000 Bosnian Muslims in a mass grave. Islamist revolutionary groups began recruiting young, angry Muslims like me who felt we were being attacked on our own continent. And it was true. The genocide was happening and nobody was doing anything about it. That was the beginning of my journey of anger. We arrived at the conclusion that we needed an
BAO QIU/THE EPOCH TIMES
gan podcast, you once said, “When there’s no such thing as truth, you can’t define reality. And when you can’t define reality, the only thing that matters is power.”
and whoever gets to define the narratives around world events gets to define how those events are perceived and how we respond to them. There’s a concerted effort to destroy the idea that there is any way of agreeing upon truth. Those who push this ideology of relativism and materialism are obsessed with attaining power. If they take power, they can shape the reality they find objectionable into their own interests. And that explains the ideological war we’re in. During the COVID mandates, traditional disciplines that relied on their own set of standards in the pursuit of truth were weaponized to achieve political objectives. Narratives were deployed.
