27 minute read
Dub Pistols Interview by Alice Jones-Rodgers.
What the Fuck Could Possibly Go Wrong? On the Frontline with Dub Pistols
Interview by Alice Jones-Rodgers.
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The self-proclaimed “World’s most successful unsuccessful band”, Big Beat survivors Dub Pistols are currently planning to launch their ninth album, ‘Frontline’. However, with the release of previous albums having been hampered by such things as the backlash against the music scene that the band had been born out of, leading their debut, 1998’s ‘Point Blank’ to be described by one particular unimpressed journalist as “the sound of Fatboy Slim’s sweaty jockstrap”; international terrorism; inter-band warfare; the search for a new record label and a global pandemic, it was perhaps inevitable that the release of ‘Frontline’ would also be anything but straightforward.
In fact, despite Dub Pistols now being a slickly drilled outfit, their latest creation was due to be with us by the time that this issue is released, but will now be released in March 2023. Well, what else would you expect from them? But, the struggles that ever-charismatic head Dub Pistol, Barry Ashworth and co. have had to endure only go to make this outfit more endearing and ‘Frontline’ is proof that great music has the ability to overcome even the biggest and most unexpected of challenges.
Not that the last three decades have been without their highpoints of course, with Dub Pistols having once been snapped up by the mighty Geffen Records, undertaken major sold out world tours; collaborated with musical greats such as The Specials’ Terry Hall, Gregory Isaacs, Busta Rhymes, Horace Andy, Planet Asia and the Freestylers and, more recently, having ran their own highly
successful festival, Mucky Weekender. Yes, the Dub Pistols story is one with just as many twists and turns as their inimitable sound and we recently caught up with Ashworth for the full unabridged version, complete with its latest and equally fascinating chapter.
Firstly, hello Barry and thank you for agreeing to our interview, it is lovely to speak to you. Let’s start at the here and now, because next March sees the release of Dub Pistols’ ninth studio album, ‘Frontline’. What can you tell us about the recording of the new album and its content?
I mean, for me personally, obviously I’m going to say this, but I think it’s our best work to date, by miles! I mean, people always say that and I think that you’ve got to believe that everything you’ve done is better than the previous, otherwise there’s no point. We’ve always worked with lots of different guests, but I vocaled a few tracks myself, which I don’t normally do, which I’m really pleased with and we’ve got everyone from like Demolition Man, Ragga Twins ... I mean, the list of guests is insane, you know! And I’ve been working with the Freestylers as well on producing. We’ve brought in lots of different people to work on lots of different bits of production and things and it’s obviously out on ... I’ve started my own label [Cyclone Records, named after the band’s 1998 debut single ‘Cyclone’ (‘Point Blank’)]. Yeah, I just thought it was time that I took my life into my own hands, so I’m quite excited about that.
So, how did starting your own label, Cyclone Records actually come about then?
It’s something I’ve wanted to do for a very long time and I think it’s something that the industry has sort of ... you know, I’ve sort of got myself into a position now where instead of giving away 50% of the royalties, that I can afford to take on the PR, the pluggers and the way that the whole
industry is run now, there’s no difference to me running it than, you know, just taking an advance off a record label to give them a massive 5% of your income. It just makes no sense to me anymore. You know, we’ve got a big solid fanbase, we’ve got a big database and, you know, we’re almost like a cult thing anyway, so it’s not like we’re something starting out that needs a hell of a lot of money throwing at it, you know, so I just made the decision that it’s better to take my life into my own hands. At least now, instead of getting 50% of the royalty, I’ve got 50% of the blame! [Laughs]. I’ve got no one else to blame if things don’t go right apart from myself, you know!
How have you found the preparation for releasing the first record on your own label?
Well, my original plan was to bring it out in September to coincide with my festival [Mucky Weekender], but that fell flat on its face, but again, it’s just taking its time with manufacturing these days, it just takes forever. So, the album is not actually coming out until March, but it’s on pre-sale now and we’re starting to release singles from sort of mid-November [‘Nice Up’, featuring Freestylers, was released on the 18th of November] through to March. Yeah, it’s quite a build-up and obviously that’s because the album is supposed to be out. So, yeah, its all go though! Now we’ve actually got release dates and we’ve got everything set up, we’re pushing forward. As I’d sort of messed up the launch, I sat back, put all my ducks in line and thought ‘alright, let’s try again!’ [Laughs].
I am guessing that the preparation for the release of ‘Frontline’ must be a little easier than that for the release your last album, ‘Addict’, with that having been released on the 16th of October 2020, during lockdown? We imagine that with not being able to get out on the road at that particular point in time to tour ‘Addict’ and promote that album must have been a very unusual experience for you. Just what was it like putting out an album in the
midst of all that pandemonium?
Yeah, I mean, it was heartbreaking. We’ve also got a documentary [‘What the Fuck Could Possibly Go Wrong?’], like about the history of the Dub Pistols, and the release of the last album [‘Addict’, 2020] was to coincide with the release of the film, which was kind of like a redemption film, because, you know, we’ve had quite a chequered and colourful past. My company’s called What the Fuck Could Possibly Go Wrong? LTD! So, basically, like the idea was to release the album and, like I said, it’s a career that you’ve destroyed yourself, mostly, finally pulled the pieces back together, finally launching the album and having a sold-out festival and then, just as it was about to happen, you know, we sailed off into the sunset and then the global pandemic struck and it was like, ‘Not again!’ [Laughs]. It’s been a rollercoaster ride and, like I said, you know, to get to our ninth studio album and, like I said, this year’s festival was absolutely incredible and to be still playing all over the world, then I think yes, it’s been a rollercoaster ride, but every line on my face is because I’ve never stopped laughing! [Laughs]. I think it’s like a boxer, you know, if you stay on the canvass then you’re out, then the fight’s over, [laughs] but if you keep getting up, dusting yourself off and going again ...! I don’t think I could do anything else, I’m unemployable! [Laughs]. And, like I say, we’ve got a very loyal fanbase that I’m really grateful to, they really support us through thick and then. You know, during COVID, the amount of support we got, you know, just through people buying merchandise was incredible.
You have obviously now been back out on the road for some time and the ‘Frontline Tour’ of the UK and Ireland began at the Boileroom in Guildford on the 30th of September. It is a sixteen date tour, which winds up with a pre-Christmas fixture at Club 85 in Hitchin on the 17th of December. At the time of this interview, you are just that one date in to the tour, but it follows a whole
Dub Pistols on stage at Mucky Weekender
host of Summer festival appearances, including the third instalment of your own Mucky Weekender festival on the 9th and 10th September at Vicarage Farm in Winchester. Have you been able to gauge any sort of audience reaction to the new material from ‘Frontline’ and which tracks from the album have you been most enjoying playing live?
Yeah, I mean, we started bringing in some of the tunes during festival season, you know, at Mucky [Weekender], we get a lot of our guests together because I book them for the festival, so I can actually get most of them on stage to perform and, yeah, the tracks have been going down absolutely, yeah, massive! You see people who have never heard these tracks before just going absolutely crazy! Yeah, and I’m very excited about it all.
We mentioned your Mucky Weekender festival there, which has just enjoyed its third year. Where did the idea to stage your own
Barry (left) with Leeroy Thornhill, formerly of The Prodigy (centre) and Happy Mondays’ Bez at Mucky Weekender. Photograph by Paul Windsor
festival come from and for you, what have been some of the highlights those three years so far?
Well, I mean, obviously, we’re a massive festival band and I started promoting clubs back in 1987, so I started off as a promoter and it’s something I always wanted to do and then someone showed me some land one year, their own land, and said they’d like to have a festival and look, I’ve always been a bit a chancer, so I thought ‘alright, I’m going to give it a go!’ And we started off very small, I think the first year was 1,200 [people] and then the second year obviously, we moved and we doubled in size and then COVID came along and had a massive effect on the amount of people that could actually turn up from bought tickets and this year was like a coming of age, where it really became, you know ... I don’t want to call it a proper festival, because that was always what we’d first do, but this year, we felt like a grown-up festival. So, like, it’s got a massive and really lovely community of people who are all sort of ... I don’t
know, there’s not one fight, there’s not one piece of trouble there, everybody’s just there to see it all and it’s just grown into something really lovely, you know. Tickets for the next one [in 2023] have gone through the roof already, so it’s already underway!
Wow, that’s brilliant! Is there anything you can tell us about Mucky Weekender 2023 at this stage?
Only that it will be bigger and better. I’ve already started to put offers in for other bands. The early birds [tickets] sold out in like fifteen minutes and we’ve already sold like 33% of the tickets for the next year of the whole of the tickets and it took me forever to sell this amount of tickets last year, so it just really shows that there’s good feedback, so, yeah, it’s been brilliant!
It is incredible how quickly Mucky Weekender has grown in stature over such a short space of time.
Yeah, once again, like I said, that’s
Barry (right) with Blaine Scanlon in Deja Vu
down to the people and the community and the support, it’s phenomenal! Because when we started our campaign this year, we didn’t spend a penny on marketing and I put a few offers in for acts for next year, but I haven’t got anything back in, you know, confirmed or anything yet, so ...
Let’s go back to your pre-Dub Pistols days to those days when you first immersed yourself in club culture, because your career began nearly a decade before you formed Dub Pistols, when you ended up in Ibiza in 1987, didn’t it? How did you end up in Ibiza and how did that experience inform what was to follow?
It did indeed. Yeah, I started club promoting in 1987, then I started my first band [Deja Vu] and was signed to Cowboy Records, which was Charlie Chester’s [and Dean Thatcher’s] back in the day and, you know, I ran some of the biggest nights, I guess, in London during, you know, the late-’80s and through the ‘90s and then, you know,
Deja Vu
doing the band thing and I think the Dub Pistols started in ‘96, I think, but that was off the back of ... the Big Beat scene had blown up, with The Chemical Brothers and Fatboy Slim, etc. That had blown up and just as ... we [Dub Pistols] signed a deal to Universal / BMG and just as our [debut] record, ‘Point Blank’ [1998] was supposed to come out, you know, the Big Beat scene died, as things do, and went from being NME heroes to ... I think one review called us ‘the sound of Fatboy Slim’s sweaty jockstrap’! [Laughs]. And then, literally, we got a deal in America and went to America and spent the next four years there. You know, just as everything falls off a cliff, there seems to be a bouncy castle at the bottom that we hit and bounce back up again! But, it was indeed 1987 that I took my first trip to Ibiza. I wanted to be a professional footballer, but I broke both my sort of ankles in various different places over a short period of time, where after I came back from one injury, I got another and I went to Ibiza just to go on holiday and that was the ‘87 thing, took a load of pills and never went home! [Laughs]. My football career was over and I was all pilled up! [Laughs].
You mentioned your football past there and in Eighth Day, we have recently started a new feature called ‘Football Rants!’ Do you still follow football and what are your predictions for the 2022 World Cup, which will be about half way through by the time that this interview goes to print?
My predictions for the World Cup, oh God! Based on what [Gareth] Southgate’s been doing lately, not very much! It’s not looking good, is it? I mean, to be honest, international football drives me crazy! I mean, my family are all Scousers, I’m first generation Mockney, so the first thing I had done was being put in a red shirt, so I’m a Liverpool supporter. So, that’s my team, we carried my grandmother down to ‘You’ll Never Walk Alone’ [Rodgers and Hamerstein, 1945 / Gerry and the Pacemakers, ‘How Do You Like It?’, 1963] when she died and I
remember Roy Hodgson was in charge when she died and I phoned up TalkSPORT and I said, ‘My grandmother’s just died and the only reason I’m glad she’s dead is that she wouldn’t have to watch this team, because it would kill her!’ People were calling me telling me to get off the radio, [laughs] saying ‘Barry, what you doin’?!’ I know, I know! So, predictions for the World Cup, let’s see ... an early bath, I hope! Mind you, not much of the Liverpool team are going to be there. He’s obviously not going to take Trent [Alexander-Arnold]. You know, I’m just hoping that we get our players better. You know, the whole Qatar World Cup for me just stinks anyway, of corruption, and FIFA just drive me nuts, so I haven’t got many good things to say about it. The whole thing is a fraud, it’s total, absolute corruption at the highest level and, you know, look at how good Liverpool were last year compared to what’s happened this year and I just think the players are knackered because they’ve just literally played every game that you could possibly play last season and then been rushed back and it’s like, they just don’t look ... they look awful and so off-pace. But yeah, it’s not being looking good for Southgate and I keep going on about [Harry] Macguire and I think he got lucky last year with the European championships [Euro 2020] taking us to the final and again, [Southgate] blew it with his selection, but this year, I can’t see us doing anything to be honest. I think the Women’s Football, the way it comes through and the whole way it’s supported, everything around it just feels a lot better, doesn’t it? I just really thought the Women’s Football is coming on so fast. I mean, you used to watch it and don’t get me wrong, I’m not being sexist, it was just a poor standard, wasn’t it? But you saw some of the goals some of the girls scored in this year’s [FIFA Women’s] World Cup and it was like, ‘Wow!’ [Laughs]. Yeah, I was delighted!
Prior to Dub Pistols, during the early to mid-’90s, there was your band Deja Vu, who released several singles and the 1995 album, ‘Gangsters,
Tarts & Wannabees’. For those who are unaware of Deja Vu, how did that band come about and could you tell us a bit about those few years?
We made one album [‘Gangsters, Tarts & Wannabees’, 1995], we did a few television appearances, we had a hit with a cover of The Woodentops’ [1986 song] ‘Why Why Why?’ [UK#57, ‘Gangsters, Tarts & Wannabees’]. It was all about me being ... you know, obviously, I was massively into the [Happy] Mondays and The Stone Roses and the Manchester scene and it was all about the vibe for me, so I just thought ‘well, if they can start a band, so can I’, do you know what I mean? And there was a few bands, there was like Deja Vu, If, Airstream and Natural Life and we were supposed to be London’s answer to the Manchester scene, but it just never really took off, do you know what I mean? Like I said, we had one album and everything fell apart and that was kind of it really! But, it set the scene, it set me on my way.
So, from there, how did you end up putting together Dub Pistols?
I got bored of the sort of House scene as it was and the Big Beat scene was fresh. Listening to the Chemical Brothers record, ‘My Mercury Mouth’ [EP, 1994, the duo’s second and final release under the name The Dust Brothers], I just thought ‘this is fresh’ and there was the Wall of Sound [Records] thing out and I just thought I just wanted a change of direction, you know, and to start doing a different kind of sound and that was it at that time. It was only ever supposed to be DJ cannon fodder, it was never supposed to be band, it was never supposed to last as long as twenty-five years! But, like I say, that’s only because I’m unemployable and I won’t give up!
That era was the time of Big Beat and you were quickly being mentioned in the same breath as acts such as The Chemical Brothers and Fatboy Slim, but by the time you had released your debut album, 1998’s ‘Point Blank’, that scene was already falling out of favour somewhat in the
UK. Luckily though, you began attracting a lot of attention in the US and signed to Geffen Records. Did the speed with which that whole Big Beat scene came and went in the UK take you by surprise and how did gaining popularity in the US and signing to Geffen Records come about?
Yeah, I mean, like totally! I remember being broke ... and really broke! And our record label [Sunday Best] had sort of given up! But, like I said, you know, ‘Point Blank’ had just come out and it was just at the end of that scene. I guess it’s a bit like Dubstep, it was one of those things that blows up, you know, everything’s massive and suddenly, it just drops off a cliff and out of nowhere, Jimmy Iovine, who started Death Row Records, had heard this track we’d done with Planet Asia and said it was the best thing he’d heard in fifteen years and the next day, I flew out and did a million and a half dollar deal and we were away in America, you know. Yeah, I mean, I blew it all [the million and a half dollars] in about a year and a half! I came back and thought I had, I don’t know, a hundred and twenty grand left and I was about sixteen grand overdrawn! [Laughs]. And obviously, just as our second album, ‘Six Million Ways to Live’ [2001] was coming out, we were Geffen [Records] and Universal’s number one project at that time and number two on Billboards [US charts] and then, you know, 9/11 happened and the world changed and the record never came out! You know, it’s just Dub Pistols all over! Like I said, one minute, everything’s going really well and the next thing ... I’m always waiting for someone to come round the corner and hit me around the face with a bat! You know, it never quite happens! I call us the most successfully unsuccessful band ever! [Laughs].
Oh, that’s brilliant! I was going to ask you about that, because the follow-up album to ‘Point Blank’, 2001’s ‘Six Million Ways to Live’, had the misfortune to be scheduled for release in the aftermath of 9/11
and with its references to world events and political content, it was deemed unfit for release, only eventually being released four years later on Distinct’ive Records / INgrooves. What are your memories of that particular time and how did ‘Six Million Ways to Live’ being pulled from Geffen’s release schedule affect the band, because there was a fairly long gap between that and the release of your third album, 2007’s ‘Speakers and Tweeters’, wasn’t there?
I mean, massive, because it’s really hard to write new material knowing that you’ve got an album there that has never come out. It probably took two or three years to get the record back off of Geffen, because even though they said they would let me go, they didn’t, you know, they held me. I think it’s the same with all these record companies. To be fair, it wasn’t their fault, do you know what I mean? But that’s neither here or there. They fully supported us up until that point, but, like any of these things, they don’t want to let you go and somebody else making it successful. But, for us, it just meant there was nothing we could do. You know, it was just like ‘there’s no point making another album, because I’ve got one that hasn’t come out’, so that’s why there was a massive gap. And then when it did finally get released, it was trying to convince people, because I thought we’d get out of that deal and walk into another deal with no problem whatsoever and everyone was like ‘Well, if the biggest record company in the world has let you go, why would we take you on?’ [Laughs]. Oh well!
So, as we stated earlier, ‘Six Million Ways to Live’ was eventually released in 2005 on Distinct’ive Records / INgrooves and following that, 2007’s ‘Speakers and Tweeters’ was released on the Sunday Best label. Did you find it hard work convincing another label to take you on after parting company with Geffen?
Very much so, yeah! It took a while and luckily, I got to judge a band
competition on the Isle of Wight with Rob da Bank [DJ and co-founder of Sunday Best] and I hitch-hiked a lift back off him, to London, and made him listen to my album [‘Speakers and Tweeters’, 2007] and he said, ‘I love it Barry, but I don’t think we can afford you!’ And I just said, ‘Look. it’s not about the money, I just want the record released’ and he signed us and away we went! Like I say, never give up!
Around the late-’90s / early-2000s, you also became one of the go-to outfits for bands looking for remixes of their newest singles. Dub Pistols remixes around that time included Ian Brown’s ‘Dolphins Were Monkeys’ (‘Golden Greats’, 1999); Limp Bizkit’s ‘My Way’ (‘Chocolate Starfish and the Hot Dog Flavored Water’, 2000); The Crystal Method’s ‘Do It’ (‘Drive: Nike + Original Run’, 2006) and Moby’s ‘James Bond Theme’ (‘I Like to Score’ and ‘Tomorrow Never Dies: Music from the Motion Picture’, 1997). Do you have particular favourite Dub Pistols remixes from over the years?
I think that one you just mentioned, Ian Brown, ‘Dolphins Were Monkeys’ [1999] was certainly one of our favourites. I don’t think that ever actually had an official release, because the idea was that we’d remix that and Ian would come and sing for us because he was into us and then suddenly, his career took off again and he never turned up! [Laughs]. We’re still mates and everything, you know, but back in those days, as well, everyone wants you to remix them. We were probably getting three or four offers a day back then and we used to get paid a ridiculous amount of money for them, but, you know, it’s like anything, you go from being flavour of the month to nobody’s ever liked you! Do you know what I mean? So, yeah, it goes in waves, you know. And now I guess most people ... I mean, I’ve just remixed Prince Fatty, I really loved that and that’s coming out shortly, but mostly these days, you know, as you know, the money in the music industry for sales is totally different compared to when Dub Pistols first started. I mean, everyone from Limp Bizkit to ... they
used to send us letters saying that we were their inspiration, which was kind of mind-boggling, because they were one of the biggest bands in the world, so it was like ‘Wow!’
Wow, indeed! So, when you get other artists telling you that you were an inspiration to them, how does that feel?
It’s like anything and everybody, it’s humbling to hear, but I think, as an artist, you never really totally believe in yourself. You kind of feel like a ... I don’t know how to explain it, but it’s always humbling for anyone to ask [for a remix], you know. And I mean, some remixes are really easy to do and some remixes, you start off with an idea and it just doesn’t work. You know, it’s a really weird world, the remix world and I guess now, I’m more of a production, sort of album-based producer now, more than necessarily a dancefloor outfit. I still DJ a hell of a lot, but not as much as the new kids on the block.
Returning to the present day, with all the changes that you will have seen in the music industry over the years, how does being a member of Dub Pistols in 2022 compare to being a member of Dub Pistols back in the mid-to-late ‘90s and early-2000s?
Sober! [Laughs]. Not completely sober, but the Dub Pistols of old were reckless and I would say we definitely had a drink and substance abuse problem! [Laughs]. So, I would say our performances are a lot better, our attitude is better and ... I don’t know, we were very much Rock ‘n’ Roll. We’re still Rock ‘n’ Roll, but, as I said, before, we were reckless, whereas now, we’re about making sure the show is good and then partying, whereas before, I guess we were the team that would come out and run around celebrating winning the cup before we’d kicked a ball! Do you know what I mean? And score an own goal! [Laughs]. Like I say, we’d always snatch defeat from the jaws of victory somehow! So, now, I suppose we’re just a bit more professional in our attitude, because you naturally grow up
and, you know, the recording process is different. You know, I used to spend every day, like twenty-four hours a day in the studio, whereas now I spend eight or nine hours and then I’m shot and instead of recording at full volume with everything, my ears have gone, so you have to control it. It’s a different approach, do you know what I mean? I guess it’s just maturing; it’s just maturing a little bit.
Finally, if the Barry Ashworth of 2022 could offer any advice to the Barry Ashworth who was just setting out on his career in music all those years ago, what would it be?
[Laughs] It’s a hard one, do you know what I mean? Because, like I say, I’ve had so much fun, but unfortunately, I’ve also been the architect of my own downfall. So, would you change anything? I don’t know, because, like I said, I have had a fantastic career which has laughed its way and Rocked its way around the world, but I’ve also been very reckless with money and drink and drugs, so maybe I wouldn’t have done as many of those, or maybe I might have listened a little bit more. The problem is, when you’re younger, you think everything’s forever and, you know, you don’t realise the consequences of your actions at the time. Like I said, we’re successfully unsuccessful, but the only person I’ll ever blame for anything that’s ever happened to us is me. Do you know what I mean? It’s like, I’ll never play the victim in this, do you know what I mean? It was me that took all the pills, it was me that put my hand in the jar, it was me that poured the vodka down my neck, you know ... it was me that spent all the money! [Laughs]. But, I think we’re at the best stage of our career, you know, because we’ve been through it all and maybe we’re not the next big thing, but ... like I said, we’re more of a cult, but we have enough of a following and we’re a different type of outfit now. Like I say, we just do things naively from one release to another. Chaos! You said, ‘What would the new Barry Ashworth say to the old Barry Ashworth?’ Go to bed occasionally! [Laughs]. Go to bed occasionally, rather than staying up twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, always looking for the next party! That would be it, yeah!
Thank you for a fantastic interview, it has been such a pleasure to talk to you. We wish you all the best with ‘Frontline’, all your upcoming live dates and for the future.
‘Frontline’ is released via Cyclone Records on the 10th of March 2023. For all Dub Pistols news, including upcoming tour dates, visit the links below.
