51st State Interview by Paul Foden.

51st State

That’s What It’s About!

Paul Foden collars Exeter’s 51st State for a bit of a natter by the bins ... classy!

“... we’ve come back refreshed, with a different mindset.”

The first interview that I did for Eighth Day was with Plymouth’s Butt Plug Babies in 2019, for their self-published album ‘Going in Dry’ release gig, which was held beside these very same council skips, close by tonight’s venue, Plymouth’s The Nowhere Inn (Go Nowhere - Be Nobody!)

That was just a couple of months after I first saw 51st State play there, when Exeter cousins Justin Woods on drums and vocals and Noah Burton on bass and vocals made such a driven, tight as fuck noise, played with such élan and punch that it still resonates with me today and I think very fondly of that gig. So, I was going to name this article “Where’ve You Bin?”, or “Skip to the Punch”, or some other piss-poor pun-based nonsense, which would be very typical of me, yeah? Rubbish!

Anyway, this long-awaited return to the venue, on Saturday 29th January, more than lived up to expectations, preceded by fellow Exeter band The Maisonettes and SCVMFVZZ, a new local band of two, whose drummer, Billi, is the bassist of the aforementioned Butt Plug Babies, this being their debut gig. There! The square is circled!

So, both support bands fucking smashed it good and proper, The Maisonettes playing a super-tight set, while SCVMFVZZ dropped in a very good though nervy performance, setting us up nicely for 51st State. But, before all that, it was interview time!

So, this is your first gig back at the Nowhere since before COVID?

Justin: Yes, and it’s the first time since these guys have owned it, which is pretty cool.

Noah: It’s a good little place; very homely.

Justin: Matt, who runs it, saw us at The Pit and Pendulum [Plymouth] as part of Plymouth Punx Picnic, then he asked us if we could play the Nowhere, but we were busy for the next few weeks after and we never play the same place too often. Noah set this one up.

Noah: It is a bit like coming home for us.

Is your songwriting a combined effort?

Noah: It’s a combination of different songs, different things, in terms of some songs are just one person, but we collaborate on ideas and see how it goes.

Justin: Yes, and we did a couple of new ones recently, with music videos, for which Noah had really good ideas. It was just in his head and he kind of went ‘This is a great idea for this song’. We made it to work around, and it came out amazingly.

Noah: I saw Justin on Christmas Day and had this one called ‘Ignorance is Risk’, and I had it figured out. So, if we come out with good lyrics, we send each other photos of them and knock them around, and they come out quite nicely. We played another gig in Bristol on Thursday night, and we’re in a practice [session] the day before, trying to play it through the whole way. We had three or four minutes left in the practice room and we played it right, just that once in those four minutes, and we were happy with that.

Justin: It’s funny, because we had started playing it, and it was pretty simple, then over the course of us discussing the structures, it just became hideously complicated, but I think it benefited from that.

Noah: Yes, they can be complicated for a little while then, when you’ve played them a few times, they become less complicated, and you just go with that.

Justin: It’s part of being original, I think, because if you’re playing at the edge of your abilities, and you’re pushing yourself, then you come up with something better.

But you also need to know where to say “That’s not working” and try something less complicated, perhaps?

Justin: Yes, the original thing I started

playing on the drums was a little shuffle kind of thing, whereas the actual song was coming back from a million miles from that. But it’s great, in the end, because we both have creative input.

Noah: Yes, I mean, if it’s a band there’s multiple people, so the best thing to do is combine your efforts.

Yes, in most bands, it’s usually a nucleus of two people that write all the songs, anyway, although sometimes other members pitch in with something they think is a bit good.

Noah: We probably balance each other out, where we go so far then communicate a bit.

Justin: You have to make space for the other person to do their thing and, when you only have two instruments, you want to play them as big and as interesting as you can to keep the overall sound full. You play it as a band, not as just somebody that plays one instrument.

Well, you’ve been doing it now for how long?

Noah: Oh, a long time. Because we’re cousins, when we were kids we used to have bands that we’d play in, then we kind of made this band about 2007-8, and we’ve been doing it [ever since]. Occasionally, we’ll play some songs from then, as a trip down memory lane.

Justin: We played one at practice last night and thought “Actually, this is a really, really good song”, but maybe some of their lyrics need a bit of updating now.

You played a gig on Thursday, I believe. Where was this and how did it go down?

Noah: It was at The Exchange in Bristol. There’s a larger venue upstairs, and the smaller basement downstairs.

Justin: It’s quite cool. I think Dean, from Zero, started putting on a Thursday night thing called Shitty Futures Promotions, and it’s really

good because downstairs is sixty people capacity.

Noah: So, it was pretty full on Thursday.

Justin: And everybody that was there wanted to be there, because of COVID, and all that business, so the people that come actually want to see that band.

Noah: Because there were quite a few bands that had to drop out because of the COVIS [sic*] on the day, two other bands played; a growing band called People Eater, I think it was their first gig, and System of Slaves, which were Thrash, heavy. That was cool. They were on because of bands dropping out and giving them places.

Justin: It’s almost the modern way now, where you’ve got the gig, and then the gig evolves, as long as you’re up with the ethos and the promotion of that band.

Yes, you need something in common with the bands, not necessarily just from a musical point of view.

Noah: Yes, you need other things in common than music, maybe it’s sense of humour, where you can bounce off each other.

Justin: We’ve been together to gigs, or played gigs, where the whole venue has been all Grindcore bands, which can be heavy, a whole night of it, four hours, or whatever.

Noah: Yes, you need to mix things up a little bit or run the risk of it becoming samey.

Justin: For illustration, Dean was saying that one of the bands that he was looking to book, to fill the slot, was a seven-piece Ska band, but he decided that it would be a bit way-off for the gig.

Noah: It’s great to be out and about now.

Justin: Tonight will be great because we have SCVMFVZZ and it’s their first

gig, and we know Billi from Butt Plug Babies.

Noah: And The Maisonettes; they’re an Exeter band, and I think we’ve played a gig with them before, as we’re both Exeter bands.

Justin: They’re kind of friends with The Cavern, and they’ve definitely done DJ sets there after gigs. A little while ago, when we were doing music videos, they were going to do a livestream gig with The Maisonettes, but they only had one song written at the time.

With us all going through the lockdowns, inhibiting everything, not being able to get out and see or play something like this, now we’re getting back towards that vibrant and creative scene, it’s great to have it all back, even tentatively.

Justin: It’s been a bit of a reset button. Where you said we met, at a Nowhere gig a few years ago, now that’s all a bit of a blur, looking back. When a gig happens now, I’m really excited for it because it still feels unusual and a bit fresh.

Noah: The COVIS gave us an enforced break and we’ve come back refreshed, with a different mindset.

Justin: In the time that COVID and Lockdown posed us, we’ve explored different ways of making music, different approaches, because whereas before we were gigging all the time, you didn’t really have time to explore different ideas quite so much.

Noah: It allowed us to make videos, which was really good fun, because we wouldn’t have spent that time doing them.

Justin: And that’s really worthwhile as we had a great time filming it with friends, whereas when you’re in the hubbub of daily life before, we just wouldn’t have had the thought to go and do that.

Noah: You’ve got a set amount of

energy, so it was nice to do some videos and spend the energy on that. We had two groups of people doing the videos. It was a fun way to link up with people.

It’s networking fun time!

Justin: That’s right. It gets you out of your little world, with a friendly atmosphere, celebrating other people’s strengths. One year, we said ‘Yes’ to every invitation or request, and we ended up doing over fifty gigs. Whereas now, we’re not sure that we want to play, on a Wednesday night, the same place we’ve played so many times before.

Noah: Depends on how straight a drive it is more now, but as long as it sounds good fun, then we’re okay. We did drive to Bradford for one of the big ones, once, but it was well worth it as it’s a very long way. It was really good, though. You’re only young once, but for a very long time, hopefully. That one moment is stretched.

You’ve got to appreciate it, when you’re still young.

Noah: Yes, but there’s a good mix of ages, on the Punk scene, and cutting across the ages has got to be a good thing, hasn’t it?

Justin: It’s a good excuse to get out, though, because whatever your musical output, it’s valid, so you’re not constrained by the genre.

Noah: It’s more about bringing ideas because, if you can bring the idea with a bit of style, a bit of panache, then you’re winning.

Justin: And the audience appreciate that, as some of the Punk bands we like are completely different to other ones. It’s a case of whether you want to pigeonhole yourself, really ...

Noah: If you’ve got a certain sound, for example, some people want to go for the Discharge sound, and why not?

I saw them in the Underground in

Mutley [Plymouth] in November.

Justin: Loud?

Just a tad, yeah!

Justin: We played with them in Exeter, and they were fantastic. The guy [Cav] doing the soundcheck here, just now, as we’d finished soundcheck asked what style we play, ‘Well, we play Punk Rock music like that. That is what we play!’ and he was like ‘Well, that was quite good. I’m down with that!’ So, I asked him what music he was into, he said ‘Rap’. So, there is this crossover of influences going on all the time, whoever you meet.

You’ve been doing this for fourteen years now. Have you ever thought about expanding the band with a guitarist or a keyboardist? Or is it the case that it would add more problems regarding writing, recording and gigging?

Noah: Sometimes I get that idea, but then I think maybe that should be a different band. Also, me and Justin are quick at organising ourselves, and the practicalities mean that this works better for us, when we practice, organise gigs.

Justin: Now that we’ve been playing so long together, we know what each other plays like, where I can tighten out the drums, and Noah will drop his sound out for that, then come back in for the heavy bit, because we’re on the same wavelength. Also, when you say expand the band, we have done collaborations.

Noah: Our friend, Simon, a poet, did some stuff with us and we had Miscellaneous Ben doing other stuff.

Justin: Yeah, so we are open to that kind of thing.

Noah: If someone brought in a synthesiser, or something like that, or maybe even another bassist, that might be good.

Justin: It’s like you said, Paul, two

people are the cornerstone of most bands and, with us, we’re direct.

When I first saw you here, a few years ago, and how you bounce off each other, some people might say that it’s in your face, but I thought it was kind of ‘wavy’ in your face, the way the music projected into and around the crowd, with your bass loops, for want of a better description ...

Noah: Yes, I kind of get what you mean, with the music that I play, with what are my influences, we live for our moment [on stage], I think, and we’re down with Reggae and Dub, that kind of thing, maybe some Industrial stuff as a pro-active thing, and Throbbing Gristle. I can’t really do a jangly, sixties-vibe thing, so a kind of Industrial Dub would be one way of describing it.

Justin: If you have a wide range of musical influences, and you listen to them intently, you get to learn about textures, and not just about tempo. You

Photograph by Kultureland

get a feel for the different genres and evolve that into your own sound, a bit of that, a bit of this.

Noah: You become a bit like a sponge, absorbing all these ideas, and as you play more you become more competent and, if you like something, it makes it easier to get. With me it’s a very social thing, I’m not that into practicing on my own, so we assess each other when we practice new stuff.

Justin: We’ve always loved it though, haven’t we?

Noah: It’s very good fun. What else are we going to do?

Justin: We’ve always loved playing our instruments, whereas some guys don’t practice for ages and see it as a bit of a chore. I play guitar sometimes, but I’m most at home behind a drum kit.

Noah: It all comes back to whether you’re enjoying it.

Justin: And whether you can see the crowd enjoying it. These are songs that we’ve written ourselves, and we love it. For me, that’s what it’s about.

Indeed, it is. And with that I thanked the band for a super little interview. It was a shame to end it there, but The Maisonettes were firing up, so we had to head back in to catch them. The gig, you ask? It was fucking blistering! You missed a cracker!

*Dig the New Model!

Towards the end of the interview, with the band having taken their name from the New Model Army song ‘51st State’ (‘The Ghost of Cain’, 1986), the subject of that band inevitably came up. Justin Sullivan of New Model Army recently said that his gigs now are mostly the new album and people can shout for whatever they want, ‘Green and Grey’ [‘Thunder and Consolation’, 1989], etc, but they probably won’t play them ...

Justin: ‘Vagabonds’ [‘Thunder and Consolation’].

Noah: Yeah. What’s that one I really like? ‘No Rest’ [‘No Rest for the Wicked’, 1985]. And the one about hunting the Nazis, ‘I believe in getting the bastards ...’

Justin: ‘Vengeance’ [‘Vengeance’, 1984].

Noah: That’s a good song, with some welly behind it.

Justin: The thing is with New Model Army is that it’s really good stuff. The other day, I was listening to playlists and found myself thinking that whatever that sound is, that’s what I want, then I realised it was ‘Carnival’ [2005 New Model Army album], and I thought there’s a lot more artistic merit to their songs than I remembered. When you listen to it with new ears, don’t compare it to the early stuff, just enjoy it for what it is. That’s true for most music, really. He’s definitely exploring different avenues.

Yes, I saw Justin Sullivan at a sit-down gig at the Exeter Phoenix last year, and I saw New Model Army at Bristol SWX in 2019, which was a really good gig ...

Justin: It’s the atmosphere of their gigs now.

But the reason that I asked about New Model Army in the first place, of course, is your band name. Either that, or you’re really into the film ‘The 51st State’ (2001)?

Noah: It’s a good film, to be fair. We got into New Model when we were about fourteen.

I was just talking to my mate, Rob, and he said that you could easily have called yourselves ‘Green and Grey’, or ‘Vagabonds’, or ‘Thunder and Consolation’ [‘Thunder and Consolation’].

Justin: Yes, we considered these options, but naaah, we were in Ilminster and you’re not really aware of the wider world and options.

Noah: It’s just the name. I mean, the band we were called before was The Skeletons.

Justin: These things cease to be what they were and are what they are now. Noah: It’s a fairly strange name, but other bands with the same name pop up every now and then. There’s a Punk covers band from London, that I’ve seen on YouTube, and there’s a ’77 Punk band from up North.

The thing is though, you don’t really ape New Model Army, as your name might suggest.

Noah: That’s good.

Justin: Stiff Little Fingers are named after a song by The Vibrators [of the same name from ‘Pure Mania’, 1977]. They did it, so it seems like a legit idea ... and we had to call ourselves something as we had some gigs booked.

Noah: There was a council-run youth project, with this little bus going around the countryside, where they sorted out some gigs to do and they’d give you fizzy pop and biscuits. We had a guitarist in our band but, for whatever reason, he dropped out, so we got a distortion pedal. So, that’s how we did it.

51st State’s latest release is a six-track album called ‘Plastic’, released in early January as a download on Bandcamp. It is an absolute blast and well worth the purchase, so buy it now!

51ststateuk.bandcamp.com

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