20 minute read
Up Stage: Passion and Inclusivity in Theater
Garden Theatre greats Joe Walsh and Roberta Emerson talk passion and authenticity in their new take on creative acting spaces.
Story by Heather Anne Lee
Photography by Fred Lopez
The Garden Theatre’s rich history is in the midst of a historical and creative reckoning. Developing a voice for the voiceless and positioning itself to be a stage for all, by all.
Recently, The Local sat down with Joseph Walsh and Roberta Emerson, two key personalities driving this evolution, to have a conversation about friendship, diversity, inclusivity, and passion for theater arts.
The Local: How did the partnership between the two of you begin?
Roberta Emerson: He’s a stalker.
Joe Walsh: (Laughing) She’s not wrong.
The Local: Well, that’s a whole passion unto itself, right?
[Laughter]
Joe: So, I first met Roberta after a stage reading in Orlando. I was the new kid on the block, and I wanted to engage with the community, so I started seeing everything that was playing. Nothing was too big or too small. It was really important to me to experience what the greater community was working with …
Roberta: Talk about passion! I can tell you from experience that this community is not used to an artistic director who is willing to see everything. So when you see somebody at every show, every event, every reading, you start to wonder, “Who is this guy?”
Joe: I felt like it was important. How could I ask the community to support the Garden Theatre and what we were doing here if I wasn’t willing to support the greater community? I remember seeing Roberta do a reading, and I was blown away. I had to meet her. So there she was, standing by herself before the actors came out, and I walked over and said: “Excuse me, I need to know you.” It was so awkward.
Roberta: It really was. And that’s when I thought, “He’s a stalker.”
Joe: It was horrible. So awkward. And, of course, she politely said, “Oh, thank you so much,” and turned back to her friends. Not one of my better moments. But then I went to see Nine Cities at Penguin Point. And Roberta was tour de force. We were in this tiny room, in this amazing little theater in the Oviedo Mall of all places. I’m surprised it had any walls left, it was just such an amazing performance and such a great conversation starter, for the community and for everyone. And that’s when I thought, “I’m going to go back and do this right.”
Roberta: And you didn’t.
Joe: Nope. Still awkward. (Laughs) Mark Edward Smith had sat next to me, a local director who knows Roberta as well, and he made the introduction. And I’m standing there, staring at this woman, with tears in my eyes, saying this performance was so amazing. And she still doesn’t even know who I am. So, I just decided to send her an email and asked her to meet for coffee. I laid it all out: I wanted to talk about local theater, and the Garden’s place in it. How we might partner to make a difference, to build a partnership that of itself is inclusive, that can then create a change within the community. It was a lot.
Roberta: And at that time in my life, I was so jaded. Jaded by the Orlando community. Maybe that’s not the right word. But no one was doing work that I truly felt was inclusive. There were so many things I thought needed to be done, but people weren’t listening. And yet, I agreed to meet with Joe. I can’t even say why, exactly. But when we sat down and started talking, I just gave it to him straight: “Here are the issues, here’s what’s wrong, here’s what I think.” I didn’t really hold back in that conversation. And so, of course in my head, I’m like, “He’s either going to run for the hills because he doesn’t want to actually get into that fight or he’s going to stay.” And not only did he stay, but we’ve kept that conversation going every day since.
Joe: And I’m so grateful for it. I need to be able to have conversations that I don’t have the tools to have. I need someone I trust to call me out. And right then and there, an hour and a half into our meeting, she did just that. It really did change everything for me in my perspective of what this relationship is and what building inclusive theater is.
Inclusivity is such a keyword for you. When you say that real, true inclusive theater was lacking in this community, what does that mean to you?
Roberta: There’s been a big movement in theater towards this discussion, right? But people get hung up on the diversity side of it. As if casting people of color, or gender nonconforming actors, is enough. But that’s not the point. I get so annoyed with the word “diversity,” because it’s so easy to throw out there. The better question is how? How are we diverse? How do you tell me what diverse means without actually using that word? For me, the most important part of diversity is inclusion.
Joe: So often people of color, women, gender nonconforming, and gay individuals are brought into spaces just to give the illusion, the picture of diversity, without actually being diverse.
Roberta: You can bring as many diverse-looking people as you want to into your fold, but if they don’t feel like they have a seat at the table, if you’re not listening to their voice, then you’ve done nothing for inclusivity. You’ve done nothing but invite them into a culture that is already traumatic and you are making it more traumatic. If you’re going to bring me into the space, you’re going to have to listen to what I have to say, and the second you’re not going to do that, I’m going to walk away.
Joe: That’s why advocating specifically for inclusion is so important. We’re bringing new perspectives in here because we need to change how we work. It not your face we need. It’s your voice, your perspective, your thoughts. We need to change how this community views who you are, who we are.
The Local: What gave you hope that the Garden Theatre was going to be receptive to such bold ideas?
Joe: We’re very passionate about this idea of inclusion, but there’s also that other part of it, which is, you have to service the theater as part of the community. You have to give it to them in a way that they will embrace and accept.
Roberta: If they don’t, they’re just going to get walked over a little bit. And I don’t mean that in a negative way. Hear me out: Yes, we have to service the community. We are serving people, that’s what theater is. But service doesn’t mean I’m giving you what you want all the time.
Joe: However you give it to them, it has to be authentic. And I have to say that our theatre community is receiving it. Our audience has grown.
The Local: That’s fantastic! By how much?
Joe: There are 300 more subscribers this year than last. So by being inclusive, we are inviting everybody into the space, and I have made it very clear that by including one, I’m not excluding another. Here’s the thing: Inclusion is for everybody, whether you see it that way or not. We are only stronger together. And we’ve become more and more powerful. I’ve actually been really impressed and moved by how much this community has embraced the work we’re doing at the Garden. And that work has to be clear and consistent.
Roberta: I’m going to add to that because that’s all on the inside. Theatre talk. Our vision. But it hasn’t been all nice. There’s been pushback. Why did we choose that show? Why did we cast those people? And that’s going to happen everywhere. When you’re being so intentional and when the people inside understand the change, it’s really easy to look at the people outside and go, what are you pushing back? And let’s have that discussion.
The Local: Let’s clarify here: Was the pushback to your vision for the Theatre, specifically, or was it just the idea of inclusion?
Joe: You’ve asked two very different questions. One is, people have said, have you always been like this? Have you always wanted this? For me, personally, the answer is yes. My parents did instill in me an openness, a willingness to push boundaries, something that is truly important to me as an adult. But I don’t think I identified it until I had a friend like Roberta, who said to me at one point, “Your eyes are open now. What are you going to do with it?”
Roberta: Once you see or witness an inequality, you have to decide: What are you going to do with that?
Joe: You can never unsee it. And now, I’m part of a bigger conversation. I have been blessed to be invited to Roberta’s table, to CFEA’s table. I have been embraced in a way that has taught me so much, and that’s where the center of our work starts. I don’t think it started on purpose. I don’t think it started intentional. I think it started as the right thing to do. And then you see pushback and then you realize that not everybody sees it the way you do. So now it becomes intentional because you have to answer the pushback and you have to work harder.
The Local: How? What’s a recent example? What kind of pushback is happening?
Joe: For example, look at the sign on the front of the theater. Love is love. Black lives matter. Science is real. That sign was put up to say, “If you come into this space, even for just these two hours, you agree to these terms.” We did it to protect our actors. And I have had people screaming in my face in the lobby over that sign.
The Local: Really?
Joe: Yes. They haven’t even seen the show. They’re just reacting to the sign. I have to explain that that sign is not for you, that sign is for the actors. For their safety. If we’re going to create a safe space for these actors to tell these stories on our stage, we must work with them, and enter into a covenant.
Roberta: I love that you’re so shocked by this. You’re like, “Really?” But it’s true. I was called the N word right outside of this theater not even two years ago. Because I accidentally bumped into someone. Accidentally. Simply dropping my child off at camp here.
The Local: Wow. Just wow.
Roberta: But your reaction is the way it is because, I assume, you’re just really good human beings. My reaction is I live that all the time. And yet I became the first Black director to direct in the Garden Theatre, the very theater I wouldn’t have been allowed to attend just 50 or so years ago.
Joe: In the 1930s, when it opened as a movie house.
Roberta: And even when I was allowed in, I had to go through the back door. Do you see what I’m saying? That history is still here. Yes, I can direct a play. Yes, I can walk in through the front doors. But there are still people who don’t believe I have a right to be here.
The Local: So, let’s bring this back around. With such experiences, not just in Winter Garden, but being jaded with Central Florida theater in general, why answer Joe’s email to begin with? Why give him a chance?
Joe: Good question. Maybe she just likes stalkers.
[Laughter]
Roberta: What I realized right away is that this is a man who understood that giving me power, giving me a voice, doesn’t take away his.
The Local: I love that.
Joe: That’s my real passion. We’re talking about passion, right? It is the rehearsal space we can create that we have 100% control over. The way we treat actors and the way we inspire them to use their voices. That is something nobody can take away. And the more of us we find, the stronger we get. Two years after Roberta and I had our first conversation about the spaces we wanted to create, I’m watching it in front of me.
Roberta: This space is about education. Everyone walks into this space to learn, including the director. Everyone walks into this space with the intention of creating a positive and respectful and open rehearsal environment where we work hard together.
Joe: Once we find people that create that space, we want to keep them, we want to nurture them, we want to develop them. I think we first saw glimpses of that during Man of La Mancha, but even more so last night, during rehearsal for The Mountaintop. I left last night so excited because it was a conversation that happened two years ago with Roberta that I was watching come to life with another human being.
The Local: And what now? Now that the conversation is finally coming to life, what’s next?
Joe: Beauty and the Beast. Yesterday in the first production meeting for reviewing The Beast, I said, “This is actually the fruition of the work.”
Roberta: Yes!
Joe: This is actually the most important thing we could be doing because you can choose to come to The Mountaintop. Directed by a Black director about Black people. That’s expected. And unfortunately, the people who should see it, won’t. But the people who come to see Beauty and the Beast … well, that’s for everybody. And when everybody comes to see Beauty and sees a representation of themselves onstage, that can change the world.
The Local: So, Roberta, you’re directing Beauty. What’s your lens on it? What are you bringing to this iconic show that people are going to walk in already having expectations of?
Roberta: I love Beauty and the Beast. It’s been my favorite Disney movie since I was, like, 8. And now, I have a chance to take the ultimate Disney classic and reinvent it in a way that represents everybody. When I grew up, I didn’t have Moanas, Tianas, and Mulans. It was Cinderella and Snow White. So when I had to imagine what it would be like to be a princess, it was harder for me to put myself in that situation than it is for my daughters. Now we have a chance to take this show and make it look like their imagination, not what the expectation is. And it doesn’t make it any less magical. It doesn’t make it any less Disney. It doesn’t make it any less anything. You’re going to get Beauty and the Beast, but it’s going to look like the world as it is today.
The Local: What is it about directing that draws you in?
Roberta: The voice. I have a voice, I can shape something.
Joe: Very few directors watch like Roberta does. To watch Roberta in a rehearsal space is to watch love and care spill out from every fiber of her being. I went in and watched so many evenings, just even for five minutes, just to stand in the room and bask in it. I think that’s the secret of her success. Roberta’s able to care for everyone and everything within a production when it’s hers. What she is going to do with Beauty and the Beast is truly revolutionary.
The Local: Beauty, in a way, is a kind of culmination of your relationship over the last couple of years, but we know that that relationship isn’t ending. It’s only just beginning. So paint us a picture of life after Beauty and the Beast.
Joe: I mean, you know…
Roberta: We haven’t gotten that far.
[Laughter]
We’re going to make you think about it.
Joe: It’s ever-evolving. It’s continuing the conversation and partnering to make sure we are evolving with the world. We do have a new season planned, but we’re still waiting for it to be approved by the board. But conversations are already happening amongst ourselves, where we’re baking the rooms we want to create into the work, into the teams, into everything. And you know, Roberta is always pushing us to ask, “Where’s the intentionality in this decision?”
Roberta: Yes. And the other question is, “Can you support that decision?” Which is often the harder question.
Joe: Yes. But so important. If you’re doing this work, you have to ask the question and be able to answer it. And sometimes it’s answering it to my friend Roberta, and Roberta to me. I think a good example of this was during Man Of La Mancha. That journey was terrifying. There was a moment that I got scared and Roberta said, ‘You chose it.’
Roberta: You can’t back down now.
Joe: Right. You have to bring this conversation to the stage, and having that support, that mutual support, having someone to have those conversations with is so important.
Roberta: I think I remember there was a question where you were like, “Well, is this too much?” And I was like, “Yes. But that’s what you chose to do.”
Joe: I am a middle-aged white man. [Laughter] And I had to ask myself the question and I had to ask the team the question, and I had to ask people that I trust the question, “Have I conceptualized myself out of this production?”
Roberta: Right.
Joe: So, I called every single actor and I asked them that question. I told them what the concept was, and I asked them if they felt comfortable being led through the process by me? Was I the right person? And I knew that I had to be prepared for the answer because if I didn’t go in prepared for the answer, the way I asked the question was going to sway the conversation, which meant that they wouldn’t feel comfortable to tell me what they thought.
Roberta: And that’s why I told him he was the right person. Not many people are willing to do that. Joe is a middle-aged white man, but it took his voice to amplify everybody else’s. It took his voice to make other middle-aged white men listen.
Joe: And one day we will get to a place where that is not needed.
Roberta: One day, it won’t matter whose voice comes first, but he was willing to use his voice, to educate, to inform, to enlighten, and to love everyone else’s. See what I’m saying? It was the same thing he did for Godspell. I hate Godspell with a passion. And somehow, he takes this story that’s not made for everybody, and made it exactly that. And suddenly you’re like, “Wow, OK.” All it takes is for somebody to be willing, and able, to flip something and amplify someone else. And you’ve got a whole other insight into something. I will never see Godspell again because it will never be, it won’t be his Godspell.
[Laughter]
Roberta: That’s what I love about him. He’s so passionate, and so willing to take risks. Not for himself, but for us, with us. He wants things to be the way they should so much—probably even more than me. And so to put myself around someone who wants it that much, he’s willing to fight for it, but he gets so passionate. Then, when people walk out—and they did—that hurt him. That hurt him to his soul because he can’t understand why. But I remind him that it’s OK. You’re going to get that when you’re doing what needs to be done. If you didn’t get that …
The Local: Then you weren’t pushing at all.
Roberta: Exactly. Then you aren’t doing the right things. You’re not doing it for the right reasons. So the story isn’t about that, the story is definitely about who this man is and what he is doing for this community, because you know what, those people who walked out will come back. They will … they have to.
Well, there are 300 more subscribers.
Roberta: Right.
Joe: But as an audience member, you are getting exposed to so many different stories and different ways of storytelling, that’s exciting. Another place that is the future of this theater and other regional theaters is how exciting it is that we have an opportunity to not always hit the mark. We have an opportunity to be interesting, to do something different, and to not always hit the mark.
I love that.
Joe: Yeah. We’re pushing hard. We’re pushing hard at this show. We’re pushing hard at whatever it is. And two actors said that’s why I’m here. I came here to be in this space. And I thought, well, that is success. That’s the action the community is talking about, coming to the Garden to have a different experience and to have an experience that is educational all around.
The Local: Anything about this conversation you feel like we didn’t address?
Roberta: I will—and Joe’s going to hate me for it, and I don’t care. I hope you amplify who he is.
Joe’s the driving force.
Roberta: He is. [Tearing up] But I don’t know, I honestly do not know, what would happen to this community if he ever decided to leave it. And he could because he’s that good … He’s never wanting his own accolades, but sometimes it just needs to be said, “Joe, you did this. You do this. You are this. You don’t have a seat at the table. You are the table.” And I think he deserves that.
The Local: You guys are each other’s biggest fans here.
Roberta: He’s one of my favorite humans.
Joe: The funny thing is…
The Local: …the stalking paid off. (Laughs) Turns out, what started as a story about theater and inclusivity is really just another wonderful love story.
Joe: In so many amazing ways.
