FIFTH WARD

An Interview With Bobby Burns

5th Wards New Alderman

Evanston Magazine Bobby Burns the incoming fifth Ward, Aldermen. Congratulations on your win Alderman Bobby Burns, how you feel about it?

Alderman Elect- Bobby Burns It feels good. It was a, you know, it was a team win. It was a community win. You know, I was thankful to have the support of the former aldermen current alderman, you know, earn both of those had good conversations with them about. You know, my vision and my work ethic and my style of leadership, as well as a commitment to continue the work that they started.

Evanston Magazine You have this great responsibility now what are you gonna do with it?

Alderman Elect- Bobby Burns I feel tremendously fortunate. I know the real work starts now. So it’s time to get to work. Evanston Magazine Give us a few brief plans that you have for your ward out in Evanston?

Alderman Elect- Bobby Burns Absolutely, we want to run a professional and responsive constituent Service Office. What that looks like is simply getting back to people in a timely fashion, recording all of their constituent service requests, recording all of their concerns and issues. Then, we need to follow with them, making sure that we’re working with them to track any requests they submit to the city.

(To see more of this section of the conversation please go to EvanstonMagazine.net)

(Transitioning to the Reparations Conversation )

Evanston Magazine Prior to you winning the Aldermanic seat, what was your involvement in the reparations?

Alderman Elect- Bobby Burns You know, I had the honor of drafting the first memorandum, City of Evanston memorandum, in collaboration with this City Clerk’s office and divine re the current clerk draft in the first memorandum that made a case for local reparations. After the resolution, they went on to pass the restorative housing program. Alderman Simmons came to Devon Reed, in the clerk’s office pretty early on for support. You know, I being the former deputy city clerk in the city, folded me into that conversation, and we got to work. So I was there from the beginning and helping to frame the case for making arguments for local reparations. I continue to participate in the community discussions and town halls around getting a better sense of the injury as well as what the repairs should be.

Evanston Magazine What’s next?

Alderman Elect- Bobby Burns I am one of the Aldermen that sits on the reparation subcommittee. The city voted on it yesterday but announced today that they are adding four community members to the reparations subcommittee.

Evanston Magazine Do you know who they might be?

Alderman Elect- Bobby Burns Well? I believe Carla’s sudden was added. I think another is named Claire McFarlan- Barber Bonnie Lockhart, and then aldermen, Simmons as a citizen will round out that group as the fourth community member.

Evanston Magazine Sounds like some awesome choices there. So you kind of walked into the present part of what I wanted to hear about the reparations issue. Presently you guys are structuring it so that it continues to flourish. We’ve got national and international attention for these moves made in Evanston, I think the whole community is moving forward. My question to you is what do you think the future of this movement should look like? Where would you like to see this issue go in the future?

Alderman Elect- Bobby Burns I think number one, just making sure that we build a process that will allow those who were injured to determine the injury. We can do that through a truth and reconciliation process of having them tell their stories. Recording the citizen’s experiences of discrimination, and prejudice here in Evanston is so important. It’s making sure that the injured party those with either directly injured or the descendants of, ultimately get to determine what “repair”, looks like for their household. We need a participatory process that allows that same injured group to offer different ideas and suggestions on how future reparations money should be allocated. I think that the budgeting process, it should allow for a mechanism to determine which ideas go forth. I’ve suggested, the best way to do that would be through a majority rules system of voting.

Evanston Magazine How is the gathering of funding for the program going?

Alderman Elect- Bobby Burns We need more money in the fund right now. The city has identified one source of revenue. The fund we’re getting is a beginning however, we’re seeing individual contributions, as well as contributions from partnering organizations step up. The reparations funds’ primary source of revenue is through the sale of legal cannabis in the city of Evanston. Right now, we only have one dispensary. The process of issuing new licenses is a state function and right now, that whole process is hung up in court and other litigation. So we don’t know right now the next time we’ll see an additional dispensary added to Evanston which would bring in more revenue. I think another priority has to be to determine how we continue to fund reparations.

Alderman Elect- Bobby Burns I would say, just making sure that the restorative housing program is structured in a way where we can provide the right cash benefits for those who prefer it right now. The first program is a housing program that will provide $25,000 to eligible residents. The funds can be used to pay down the interest on a mortgage, purchase a mortgage or, improve their home.

Evanston Magazine What’s the critique of this?

Alderman Elect- Bobby Burns All of that money goes directly either to the mortgage lender or to the contractor. We’ve heard a lot of people say that what repair “looks like”, for me and my family will be a direct cash benefit. For those who prefer it, we need to provide a direct cash benefit. There is a separate fund, held by Evanston Community Foundation. We need to continue to keep eye on that fund and make sure that we are developing ways to come up with viable ideas to use those funds as well.

For more of this interview go to EvanstonMagazine.net Transcribed by www.otter.ai Interviewer Aaron Foster Photo Credit: dailynorthwestern.com (Via Google Fair use)

Bennett Johnson On Reparations

Bennett Johnson is a historic acorn in the tree of Black history. He is one of the men in the room during very iconic moments. He walked and worked with Martin Luther King. He worked and traveled with Muhammad Ali and dined with the Honorable Elijah Muhammad. He sat with Lester Young (Jazz player) and his best friend was the first Black man to become Mayor of Chicago- Harold Washington. His view is one from an educated historic gathering of conversations saved by his very existence. This conversation is edited by Evanston Magazines editing team only to preserve space in this issue.

Evanston Magazine Bennett Johnson, thank you for taking the time out to talk to me. You know, I want to talk specifically today about this reparations bill. Evanston is now a nationally talked about city. As you are one of its most politically astute citizens here is my first question. What do you think? Bennett Johnson I think what happened is really, really important. Not so much for the actual program they put together, but for the fact that it was done. Okay. And the journey of 1000 miles begins with the first step, Right? So, this is the first step. I think we can follow the road and make sure that it ends up in the right place. Evanston Magazine Okay. I kind of agree with that. Also, I know that there’s been a lot of opposition to how it started. I think people believed that it is square one and was going to fix everything. Marx said this in his book, Das Capital. We are going in the right direction. Evanston Magazine 4:43 Yeah. I think it was a good start, and so are you able to put in an application?

Bennett Johnson I’m not sure. Okay, I can use the extra money, but I’m not sure.

Evanston Magazine 5:18 What would stop you. Bennett Johnson I’m more interested in implementing a plan that can help all Black Evanstonians.

Evanston Magazine Okay, well, I understand that and then looking at the way they set it up, and you might be one of 12 people that still factually qualify for this thing. Evanston is growing and young people are moving in, and not many people with maturity are still here from the parameters that they require. So, I think that’s one of the criticisms of the reparations plan. What do you think of that? For the record Bennett Johnson, I think you should apply. Bennett Johnson Well, no, it’s not about me, it’s the City Council, who set up arbitrary dates. Ridiculous. They act like everything started because of a change in the law, right. The white realtors used techniques to keep things segregated that way prior to those important dates.

Evanston Magazine I believe what the program creators picked a group, a time period, that was almost kind of unreachable, because if the people like yourself, you’re 90 years old, you know, man, and that is a phenomenal thing to be, but it’s not very common. So they’re kind of reaching back to people like yourself, and then you start thinking about some of the people in your age group. And I hope you don’t feel like this is in any way a disrespect. But a lot of people in your age group haven’t had the blessings that you’ve had to be still physically fit and mentally competent at 90. I thought that was a big hole in the reparations program. I think that it’s a great program, but it’s the first piece in 1000 piece puzzle. We have a lot of work to do.

Bennett Johnson I know that is not the case.

Evanston Magazine What’s your opinion of the direction of some of the youth that believe that this was no good, or that it should be renamed? Bennett Johnson Well, I just think that the overreacting just like, when you were a kid and you wanted a bicycle, instead of a bicycle they give you a BB gun or a pair of shoes or something like that. You were given something. So, let’s go from there. I think the criticisms are justified; the program is flawed. Evanston Magazine Okay, what do you think the next step should look like? Bennett Johnson Well, actually, I’ve been involved in reparations for quite some time. Years ago Dr. Hycel Taylor and I brought in a lot of high profile people. We brought in university faculty members. You mentioned M.L. King’; his lawyer participated, and a lot of really high profile, committed folk.

Evanston Magazine Martin Luther King’s lawyer?

Bennett Johnson That’s right. He was also the first Black on the New York Stock Exchange. We came up with a plan. Land and housing are the centerpiece of wealth for all; Karl My next question reflects something you mentioned, where some of the realtors around in 1969. Are any of those people still around and can we hold them to some type of accountability?

Bennett Johnson I’m not sure. I was not close to the realtors and everything at that time.

Evanston Magazine 9:01 Okay. I respect that. I do know you were in the business

world at that time. So, I thought maybe you knew one or two

Bennett Johnson I was running a program called Talent Assistance Program, what we did was to help minorities get into business, using volunteers from the corporate community. We started many companies. We helped Johnson Products and Soft Sheen. We found a lot of businesses, some of which are still around.

Evanston Magazine Some of those companies that participated in redlining back in the day should be held accountable monetarily. So, some of those, they should be paying in good faith, there should be documentation. You guys were redlined in 1965; you’re still around here now. We would feel comfortable with you putting together $25,000. Some of those companies may come to terms with that. The more companies that do put into that pot, the bigger the pot will become. Then you know, you get into all the other conversations on how you grow that pot to make it valuable to all Black Evanstonian people?

Bennett Johnson The purpose of reparations is not retribution. We would repair rather than worry about retribution. The concept that I created has been endorsed by several people, is what I call The Freedom Plan. It starts with a real estate investment trust (reit) and a venture capital group, so we have a funds to help people in housing and in the business field. We have a not-forprofit fund for welfare, education and health problem. Then, we can have what they did in South Africa, a Truth and Reconciliation group. In other words, where people can come, and tell a lot of great stories, right? Also, some of the people who’ve been in on the wrong side can come explain where they are now. Bennett Johnson The point being that the Truth and Reconciliation thing would allow people to not only complain, but also to see why they did wrong. Now, the point with the actual money itself, is that a lot of people say give people cash, but if you have a real estate investment trust. That is when you can stay in control.

Evanston Magazine You spoke of a voting trust?

Bennett Johnson Yes, that could be controlled by Blacks. And so therefore, it’s a Black thing. giving control to the Black people. A venture capital group that will lend money and invest in people who want to go into business. A voting trust will be set up the same way in a not- forprofit fund to deal with health and education. The key thing as far as people feeling bad about what they’ve done, is that they can invest and put money into any aspect of the program. Evanston Magazine 14:11 I’m very interested in The plan you put together. I’d love a copy of it. And I’d love to put it on our website. So, people could actually download it and take a look at it, if it’s ready to be looked at.

Bennett Johnson 15:29 I made a presentation to the committee and they ignored it because, well, I’m not sure why. I know that $25,000 in no way can compensate for the historic harms.

Evanston Magazine 16:10 I think anybody with a reasonable mind agrees that that $25,000 to 15 to 17 people is so insulting. It’s just again, one small piece and 1000 piece puzzle.

The conversation turns to anti-retribution

Bennett Johnson We split off the sense of finances by the Black community. I started a group called Minority Real Estate Investment Trust (Merit Trust). The first Black controlled real estate investment trust in the country. So, that’s the kind of concept I would like to get together again. Evanston Magazine 21:42 That sounds phenomenal. What happened to it? Bennett Johnson Well, I was voted out by a group. I’m not sure why? We received a grant, I was the regional head of the Office of Minority Business Enterprise(OMBE), now called the MBDA, the first regional director in the Region Seven—Chicago area, and the Midwest. One of the former lawyers with the law firm, McBride, Baker,… that I worked with created the MESBIC. The name of the lawyer is David Brown. He became the key legal guy with the OMBE in the Department of Commerce. They gave Merit Trust a grant of about a quarter million dollars.

Evanston Magazine What happened?

Bennett Johnson Unfortunately, instead of using the money wisely the guys took a trip to China.

Evanston Magazine 23:03 Okay sad ending. Unfortunately, I’m saddened by the fact that this incredibly smart idea that came to fruition was damaged by some fools’, need to take the money to China and go spend it. I think the concept was fantastic. So what give me some more, give me some more of your thoughts on this reparations program now that people are nationally attracted to Evanston?

Bennett Johnson 24:48 Well, I think the fact that Evanston is leading is important. I think other people will pick the reparations concept up across the country. And, at some point, well, like HS 40, which has been in Congress, for I don’t know how many years under John Conyers. And now I think Sheila Jackson Lee is the chair of the committee that needs to go forward. Once that’s done on the federal level, I think everything else will fall into place. The key problem is money. And we spend money to kill people plus more. The main thing is that it’s moving and it won’t stop. It may take 10 years, may take 20 years. But believe me reparation is here to stay.

Evanston Magazine 26:00 Yeah. And eventually it will come to fruition and a solid form. I’m looking forward to it. Have you been contacted by any of the like ABC, NBC, CBS, Bennett Johnson I was contacted and we had a brief conversation. They asked me how I felt about the concept of reparation, I compared with when I played football because we were playing a on a new field.

Evanston Magazine 27:43 I see the importance, I really have great conversation when it comes to talking about what Evanston means to people. It means treating each other fairly. I think that Evanston does still have some forms of covert racism, even overt racism. I think though that Evanston is a place where the conversation is at least being had amongst people. I think that it’s very important, especially right now, when we’re going through what we’re going through in Evanston with the Council, the exchange of the mayor, the school board, and who is presently our chief of police. I think it’s very important for us to continue the conversation and not end up enemies based on color and wealth. In building the magazine I received several endorsements from people across the country, mostly academicians, but also celebs including endorsed by Chance the Rapper.

Bennett Johnson So, let me be clear racism is part of the culture of the United States of America. They had to be Christians. Christians justified slavery by developing a mythology of Blacks being inferior, and slaves had no rights at all, and women as well,

Evanston Magazine 31:29 Well, I don’t know. I respect that. And I believe that also, that’s a slippery slope, I think, especially in an America like this one. And I don’t want to have that conversation. Let’s just walk that race based paradigm, race based teeter totter, let’s leave that one alone. Who’s better than that? That’s never going to be good. So, and I want this to all be about reparations, right? reparations. And I think the bigger conversation if you have a bigger conversation about reparations, yes, that should probably be a part of, but this one, we not going to touch that. Sorry. all due respect.

Evanston Magazine Are you coming out with a book anytime soon?

Bennett Johnson 32:23 No, no, no, I am a book publisher? Evanston Magazine 32:27 I know you’re a publisher. That’s why I’m like, why would you not have all of these things that you have done in a book? All these things that you’ve been a part of need to be documented? You, man, please? Even if you have to just talk about it, and we have to just transcribe it into a book, then it has to be somewhere. Your like Forrest Gump, you walk through all of the black history of America. Bennett Johnson I feel you can’t serve two masters at one time. Experiences and ideas are a whole lot more important and getting results, than I’m talking about who I am. I do agree that there may be some value in telling the story. Because a lot of this the things have been repeated without people realizing the top and that they were done before. That the only value I see in writing a book.

Evanston Magazine 33:28 Okay, that’s awesome. Well, I look forward to either being a part of you writing that book or reading it when it’s done, whoever has the opportunity to get you to do that. Man,they’ll be a rich, because that’ll be a big endeavor.

For specific details please go to evanstonmagazine. net to see the full interview.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai