Hit the emotional hot button with content by GenooMarketing

Hit The Emotional Hot-‐Button With Content Watch the video & see blog post Kim Albee: Hi. This is Kim Albee. I'm here with Dan Hill, who's the author of "Emotionomics -‐-‐ Leveraging Emotions for Business Success." Dan Hill is a recognized authority on the role of emotions in consumer and employee behavior and an expert in facial coding as an aid in measuring people's decision-‐making processes for the consumer insight testing. He is the founder and President of Sensory Logic, a scientific, research-‐based consultancy that specializes in enhancing companies' sensory-‐emotional connectivity. Dan is a frequent speaker at business conventions across the globe, and also, an author of "Body of Truth -‐-‐ Leveraging What Consumers Can't or Won't Say." Welcome, Dan. Thank you so much for talking with me today. Dan Hill: Absolutely. Happy to be here. Kim: What we're going to explore in our conversation today and what you explain so well in your book is the fact that if companies can't connect emotionally with their customers, they're making a huge fundamental mistake. As you say, if you can't engage people emotionally, you're not going to get much action out of that. You're not going to get much regard from them, for your company and your brand and all of that. I wanted to start out by just asking you a big old, broad question, which is "What is emotionomics?"

What is Emotionomics? Dan: Emotionomics is really based on the breakthroughs in brain science in the last 25 years. I think we know this in our gut, but we sometimes make a wrong play in business. We think people make a decision from the head, but they really make it from the heart. The breakthroughs in brain science have at least three absolutely astonishing revelations. One is the conservative estimation that 95 percent of people's thought activity isn't fully conscious. In other words, we're going a lot on the intuitive, gut-‐level reaction. Secondly, the emotional brain sends 10 times as much information to the rational brain as vice versa. It's like a trade imbalance. It's as if the emotional brain was China and the rational brain was Cuba. What that means is that the value proposition that we talk about in business is essentially emotional judgment, when it's all said and done. Yes, you can look at price. You can look at © 2015 Genoo, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

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testimonials, but does it feel right? Does it feel like it's going to make a difference for me? That's an emotional judgment. The third fact. Everybody feels before they think. The emotional brain came into existence before the rational brain. Our emotional responses happen five times more quickly. There is no such thing as objectivity. As the famous banker J.P. Morgan said, "A man and a woman make a decision for two reasons, the good reason and the real reason." The intellectual alibi, the justification, and the actual gut-‐level decision that drives market share.

How do companies know if they’re hitting that emotional hot-‐button? Kim: We're going to talk about this more, but what is the way in which companies can start to grapple with understanding whether they're hitting that emotional hot button or not? Dan: Probably the way that I'd go is to follow the path of evolution. The origin of the brain, literally, a small node on the top of the spinal column, our sense of smell, but from there, visuals took over half. The brain is devoted to processing visuals. If we are talking about the role of emotions in marketing, the first thing is you have to get engagement. The joke that has to be explained to you is never as funny as the joke you just get. You've got scientifically speaking, a very small window. From the time they see the stimulus to having an emotional reaction to it, you've got three seconds or less. It is in football terms, "Hut, hut, hike," and the play is on. Make the connection quickly, or you probably won't make it at all. That brings us to the importance of doing the visual correctly.

What to think about in terms of visuals Kim: Talk to me about visuals. How do the visuals...I'm talking to, say, it's mostly an online audience, we have websites, or landing pages and that sort of thing. Talk to me about how visuals, what to think about in terms of those visuals? Dan: Obviously, you were talking small to midsize businesses here. The thing I would warn any company against in terms of its online marketing, is don't imagine for a moment you can just go grab some clip art, for instance, and post it to the site. It's going to signal, obviously, lower quality, but most importantly, it's not going to signal authenticity. We have engaged in eye tracking studies for the last half decade. We know the three principles that are most important to making your visuals work. The first thing is, you have got to have a dominant visual.

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Walt Disney called it the "weenie." It's his term for something like Cinderella's castle. You get to the theme park. You know what's the dominant visual. If you go page-‐by-‐page through your website, you should say to yourself, "Do I have a clear hierarchy?" What's the most important on the page visually, second most important, third most important? It's got to be a flow for the eye. That's one thing. The second thing we see from eye tracking is it needs to be implied change or motion. The reason change is so important is because typically people are coming to you for one of two reasons in your marketing. They've got a problem and they want to solve it, or they are doing well but they want to do even better. It's the change of status quo ever since threats and opportunities get people's attention. Think about the dominant visual. Think about whether there's a story line of motion and change to how the fanatics and visuals are laid out on your website. The third one brings me back to the clip art, which is faces. People are overwhelmingly attracted and engaged by the faces of people who are depicted. It may be yourself as owner, it may be employees, it may be customer testimonials, whatever visuals that you use that involve faces, don't rely on cartoonish clip art, it will not engage as much, and if it seems fake, then, you've violated the central emotional precept of all business, which is trust is the emotion of business. If it doesn't feel authentic and real, then, why should they believe the offer?

What is Facial Coding? Kim: That was a lot in what you just said. Talk to me a little bit about facial coding and what you've learned just in that sense. I know that all of us, even small business owners, we deal with people on a day to day in person basis, what is the facial coding, we all have an intuitive sense when somebody's with us, when they're not, what their mood is, but how does that inform how we think about coming up with our marketing? Dan: The first brain is sensory, but the second brain and really dominant brain is emotional. The way in which we understand other people is indeed through the faces. Charles Darwin was the first scientist to take emotions seriously, he figured it had an adaptive advantage for us, and indeed it does. It tells us who is on board, who's with us, who's against us, and when we meet someone in person, there are actually seven core emotions that people reveal in their face. There's a true smile and a social smile, they're different. A true small involves the muscle around the eye which relaxes, it gives you the twinkle in the eye. The social smile, less reliable, just around the mouth itself. © 2015 Genoo, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

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But there's also surprise, and then, you move into the negative emotions. We're talking anger, we're talking sadness, we're talking fear, we're talking disgust, and contempt. Typically, if you're in a business meeting, I can warn you that the negative emotions will probably flit across the face very quickly, and then, disappear, it's called micro expressions. People are signaling they've got a resistance; they've got a problem, an issue with what you're presenting. If you just go with the words alone, you may miss the fact that they have betrayed a little moment of, "I'm not with you." Those are the signals you've got to pay attention to on the face.

Understanding the 7 Primary Emotions and the Emotional Intensity Spectrum Kim: When you talk about the seven core, or primary emotions, you also talk about that emotional intensity spectrum. Can you say a little bit more about that to understand you've got surprise and happiness on that positive side, and then, you've got all the negative, the other negative side, but what's the range of intensity there, and why is that important? Dan: Let's start with the positives. A true smile is really the equivalent of joy, and a brief flashing micro smile is probably mere acceptance. You will make a lot more money from the true smile. Let's jump to the negative side; maybe one that's most important is disgust through all its variations. Contempt is really almost like a moral judgment that they don't respect you, and I would consider it very much related to disgust. But if disgust is bad taste or bad smell, and quite honestly, what the face reveals there, is a nose wrinkle, the upper lip curls if it can't get away from something fast enough, that's disgust. It's bad taste, bad smell. Boredom, on the other hand, which can be very important to one's marketing efforts, boredom is in effect no taste. I think it's shocking how often if you look at the way in which people market it's very conventional, and it's not differentiated, it's not interesting; it has essentially no zest to it. People react with boredom, which is a low-‐grade version of disgust, which really means rejection.

How much negative emotion do you want to play with in marketing? Kim: What's the thing to focus on in marketing? There's some people who would say you want to...when people are really going to make a change, it's when things get bad enough, and then, they're going to be motivated to shift into a change gear.

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How much of say the negative emotion do you want to play with there in your marketing, as opposed to all the happy stuff? Dan: You actually do want to play with some of it. What we've seen is too often corporations are very keen on the solution, because that's where they're going to make their money and the chance to be the hero. But if you don't empathize with people's frustrations, it's as if you're not listening to them, then, you're not setting up the value of the solution nearly as much, because then, the journey is being way down in the valley of the problem up to the mountain top of the solution. That's a dramatic change. You should use the negative emotions; five of our seven core emotions are negative. We're very oriented toward bad news and paying attention to it, because it's a survival issue. To not play with those, reduces the color palette of emotions down to merely levels of happiness. That's not going to be as compelling for people, and I think you're right. What I quite often use is, it’s not that people see the light so much as they feel the heat. Let them know you feel that same heat, that you care about it. I think that will take you a long ways.

Which of the Secondary Emotions is most important? Kim: In terms of understanding not just primary emotions, but how they combine into the secondary emotions, how important is that to really fine-‐tune your marketing? Is it good enough to just know, "Good, there's these primary emotions. Let's just look at those." Talk to me. How important is it to really get to that fine grain secondary emotional set? Dan: That's probably getting pretty sophisticated. I would say, of these secondary emotions, the most important is pride. You want people to feel like they are indeed proud of your offer, and that they bought it, that they made the right decision. Pride is an emotion. It's a combination of happiness. I got success. I got what I long for, or I cherish what I wanted to embrace. Actually, anger, because anger as an emotion has to do with wanting to make progress. You can look at a lot of athletes or other people. They will show pride as a combination of those two things. It's a very nice place to get to. It indicates that there was success arrived at. Frustration, which is one of the core emotions, I need to bring into this conversation, while pride is great, because you indicated there was progress made.

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When we look for instance, at websites, people's exposure and navigational websites, we find that 38 percent of the emotional response that we've quantified through facial coding, the ability to read faces and know how people are feeling. 38 percent of that response is frustration. People don't feel like they're in control. People don't feel like they're making progress. I think that's one of the key things to making the online presence work better.

From Emotion to Motivation Kim: You then take those emotions, you explain all of that, but then you start to talk about motivations and core motivations, the things that drive human behavior and the reasons why people take the actions they do. How do you go from emotion into motivation? How do you get from one to the other? That's so important when you're developing marketing campaigns and wanting to engage with your customers. Dan: Emotion and motivation have the same root in Latin, which is to move, to make something happen. Hopefully, from a business point of view, to feed the bottom line. How do you get people to move? How do you put some fuel in their tank? There's a couple things that I would raise here. From a pure motivation point of view, we have found over the course of our research, we've been at this for 12 years now, using facial coding to quantify emotional response. We found that marketing efforts that tap into one of two motivations, work best. The first one is simply "me." You enhance self-‐esteem with the person who bought the offer. I know in a B2B setting, there are multiple purchasers in effect of the company. Nevertheless, every person in that decision wants to feel proud. They want to be bolstered in terms of their self-‐confidence. They made the right choice. The other one is the "we." Not just the "me," but the "we," the sense of belonging. Very often, that means I have been into group, I'm with my peers, but ideally, I'm actually with the companies that are on the cutting edge. Not so cutting edge to be falling off the cliff, but the ones who are innovative moving forward, have the best solutions. I think in a B2B setting, that sense that you're safe, because you're in a herd, but you're maybe in the front of the herd, will be the ideal thing to go after. That's from a peer motivation point of view. If I back up and I look at your marketing efforts from an emotional angle, there's three ways you'd tap into emotions.

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One is simply the stimulus itself, whatever you show on the screen. It could be the faces. It could be the dominant visuals, whatever you're using there. In a deeper, long-‐term emotional connection, you want two things. One is the value system of your company should ideally spark something in your target audience. Clearly, still the best example of this would be Apple. They came out with coloring that was much richer than what we saw traditionally. Steve Jobs' slogan is, "Think differently." They have a sense that is your iconic classic that you're a bit of a rebel; you're a bit of an artist. At least for Apple's audience, that value system has connected tremendously. The other one is personality. Does your company project a personality? Quite honestly, I think most companies if you look at their branding efforts, I'm talking about if you're a small company, medium-‐sized, or larger, most companies don't have a personality. You can create that. We respond to people. A company in its entirety should have some sort of personality profile to it. If you don't do those things, you're missing the deeper roots of how to get an emotional engagement.

The Four Core Motivations Kim: When you talk about the core motivations and you have a bit of a diagram around it, which is acquire, bond, learn, with defend being in the middle. Emotions kind of hanging off those different things, like acquire, you're going to enhance your status, your possessions, or your turf. Whereas bond, you're going to form connections, professional, romantic, whatever. Then learn, you become wiser, self-‐discovery, knowledge. How do those three play together in the thinking about how you engage your audience? Would it be like if I'm interested in...if there's a huge need to educate my audience and I go after that learned piece, can I combine learn with bond, learn with acquire, and different emotions there as I'm going through that educational piece or providing a lot of that sort of information. Is that a way to think about it? Dan: Yeah, no. I was looking for the simplest and most profound model of motivations I could find. This one was taken from two Harvard University professors. In the middle of that diagram, trying to help people who are taking this on an auditory basis, in the middle of that is actually defend yourself. Defend your resources, your family, your reputation, whatever. I think that's the most elementary survival element. You can play to it by yourself, but you're right. There are all

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these other three, of learn, acquire, and bond. I don't think you're going to have a solid positioning if you try to encompass all of them. I think that the most extreme is probably going to go to a couple of those, a combination. Let's take, for instance, learn and acquire. Learning is quite obviously about discovery. Yes, in some cases you may have a very different offer in the field. You've got to get people educated. You've got to wrap them up as to what this is about. If in that learning, now, there are people who just love to learn on their own right, and that's fine, but I don't think that's the majority of Americans. Half the household's in America didn't buy a single book last year. To premise your business on the learned motivation alone, I think it probably risky. To tie it into, I learned this, and I acquire status, I am more informed, I'm more advanced, I think that's a cool way to take two of those motivations, and get something richer, in terms of how you position your company.

Which Core Emotions should businesses invoke to lead into motivations? Kim: Then, using what you call the "Emotionomics Matrix" what you say is it's meant to give the business world a way to take into account two factors, what motivations cause people to act and how people's feelings will, in turn, further influence their actions. If people use this kind of matrix and that to kind of think about it all, what are the core emotions they ought to really be looking to invoke that will lead right into motivations for them? Dan: We've already mentioned pride earlier, which is fine, but if you go back into that part of my book "Emotionomics," which maybe I'll put a little plug in, for since, we had the flap on the cover of the book, the truth is that "Ad Age" was chosen as one of the top 10 must read books last year. I think I was onto something, hopefully, here in all this that will help people If I'm starting to look at those other emotions, sometimes, you're going to combinations. You might be trying for relief. If you got a financial offer, sometimes people are just looking for security. That might be a case where that middle motivation of defend is really important. Maybe yes, you're going to learn, for instance, because they're learning how to defend their investments better or have a better insurance policy. I think the key thing is that each emotion has its own meaning. I think one of the fallacies we've had for a long time in business is it's all about the rational hard sell. The breakthroughs in brain science are blowing that up.

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But it's not like emotions are soft or willy-‐nilly. Each emotion has its own meaning or what I call its own script to it. Relief, for instance, is a combination of happiness and surprise. You are happy, because you're now in a safe place, and you're surprised that you could actually get there. You thought you were going to have to live in a situation of duress. If you think about that which happens to be in chapter two of Emotionomics, you can think about how people get to that emotion, that payoff. Then if you back it up, how do your marketing materials set up that plotline to get there? Clearly, if you're going to get to relief, there's got to be a surprise element, an “ah-‐ha” moment where I've crossed over from being in the dangerous, bad world to being safely within the threshold of security. Kim: I like the idea of how this all works. If you take an issue, say, an issue that you know your target market has that your company solves, and you figure out which emotion is the most relevant emotion, just like what you were just walking through, and then, you build the story around how that comes to be... Kim: Go ahead. Dan: I'll give you another one. Let's imagine you're a clothing company for a moment. Envy as an emotion is a combination of anger and sadness. You are probably angry, because that person has more status, they've made more progress, seemingly, in the world to you. You wish you had the same clothes that they have, because it signals that they're cool. You have sadness, because you're disappointed, because your status isn't where theirs is. You feel like you've let yourself down in effect. There is, in every case, some way in which you can tap into this. I'll invoke Disney one last time. He was originally a cartoonist. What he thought about is...when he had guests who came to the theme park he always said, "What's the in frame? What's the third frame of my three frame cartoon? What's the emotional payoff?" What I'm giving you here in terms of the Emotionomics Matrix is think about the motivations. Think about the emotion, and then back up to the two earlier frames to build a story that can inform how you build all of your marketing efforts.

Without emotion you are unable to make a decision Kim: Yeah, I think putting that together that way ends up really bringing in that piece where when you hook people and really engage with them, that is emotional. I remember a "CBS Sunday Morning." I like CBS Sunday Morning. I walked down. I was late. I walked into the middle of a segment where they were talking about a guy who had had some sort of brain surgery to fix something or address an issue he had. The surgery was highly, highly, highly successful except for this guy lost his ability to feel emotion. He would © 2015 Genoo, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

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sit for hours trying to figure out what to wear or what tie to put on because he literally could not choose. Dan: I think if we go back 300 years, Descartes famously said, "I think, therefore I am." We've gone on a very rational path, which leads us right to Mr. Spock from "Star Trek," but in reality, we're more like Homer Simpson. We make decisions out of greed and altruism and sympathy and laziness, and probably, even stupidity and all sorts of things we don't want to admit to that don't show up on a spreadsheet, but are absolutely real. The point of Emotionomics is ultimately to say, "We need to bring the humanity back into business." A lot of companies don't get that. There's definitely a competitive advantage in coming across as more real and more engaging. That's really, ultimately, my mission in all this, to help companies succeed. The same thing is true, actually, to jump to the other side in terms of your employees. Will they be excited to be at a company that has no personality, no value system? Not nearly as much as one that has a sense of mission and purpose and personality. That's interesting to people.

How well do you need to understand your market? Kim: I'm sitting here going, "If I can engage and really grab the emotional, get that emotional buy-‐in for my target market, it all boils down to whether I'm able to do that or not." Does it all boil down to how well and how intimately I understand that market? Dan: Yeah, I think that too often companies, again, take a factory-‐centric approach whether they use a factor or not. My favorite joke from "The New Yorker" is two women are talking and one says to the other, "But enough about me. What do you think about me?" Kim: [laughs] Exactly. Dan: It is striking how often. if you look at your sales script, your stuff online, you're jumping right to what the offer is. Everyone is talking about customer -‐centric for probably decades now, but it's not enacted very often. If you go back and really look at it from an outside prism, you're probably going to do a whole lot better than failing to pay attention to people. A doctor, for instance, in meeting with a patient typically cuts off the patient after 18 seconds. They're not very good listeners. You'll have a better business if you at least pretend to listen, and in fact, you'll be even better off if you really do.

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The Great Chain of Buying: Stages and Pertinent Emotions Kim: In your book in the sales section or the chapter on sales you have a diagram that's called "The Great Chain of Buying: Stages and Pertinent Emotions." Can I have you walk us through that really briefly if possible? Where we start is you've got happiness, delight, pride, hope going around once. You're creating comfort. You're showing respect. You're being reassuring. You've demonstrated fairness. There's that. Then there's this other cycle, the cycle of satisfaction, which is creating awareness and showing superiority. Can you tell me how all of that works together in the whole sales process? Dan: Sure, let's start with someone who this is a new offer or they haven't bought for a long time, you're not dealing with an incumbent situation. You have to be realistic. A lot of times in those first meetings, you're not going to get the sell. What you're trying to do is peek their instance, to have them remember your phone call, remember your mailing piece. The way recall works is people tend to remember openings, closings, and peek moments. If you're going to be dramatic, you have to have a climax to the story. I think a lot of times people just mumble, mumble, mumble, and everything is just the same. It's like driving across my beloved native North Dakota, and there's no variation in the elevation. You should have a peek to the story. In first approaching someone you have to create a spark of delight. You have to make them remember you, because the odds are you're going to take five to seven meetings to actually close a deal. You've got to give them enough of a spark so there's some hunger and interest for the subsequent meetings. The second place station on that great chain of buying is pride. I think if you can get them to feel like, "Maybe I can't spend the money yet. I'm not ready. It's not that point in my business cycle. But you've made me interested and you've gotten me imbued with the idea that I could make progress, I could get to a better outcome if I take your offer, and I would be happy if that happens." If you can give them that sense of pride, it's a huge motivator for people. The third one is if you get really lucky and you come to someone who needs almost immediately a solution. In that case, I think you can go right to giving them hope. If you can promise them this is going to make a difference and it's not a long term fuse, that it can be done right now, if you can make them both hopeful, and probably not fearful that they're going to make the mistake, then, you can be OK. If I switch over to the cycle of satisfaction, this is something that I've learned painfully myself in business. There are obviously situations people have bought, and probably not so long ago. You'd like to think your solution is superior to the one that they have, the © 2015 Genoo, LLC. All Rights Reserved.

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incumbent solution, but people don't like to feel like they've made the wrong decision. It invalidates them. It takes away the pride and delight and hope we've just been talking about. I think in a situation they've bought pretty recently you might try to subtly unearth if there's any dissatisfaction. If you do that too aggressively you're probably going to make them uncomfortable with the decision they made. You're going to make them feel bad. It is human nature to try to avoid feeling bad about ourselves. We like to accentuate the positive. It makes us feel more psychic energy and attracts allies. I think that's the other thing I would point out. Don't nudge too hard, because they'll just close the door on you. You can create a little bit of envy for what you have, but I don't think you can go much farther than that if someone has bought recently and signals themselves that they're satisfied.

What about when they go “another direction”? Kim: In the sense of if you've got a prospect you've been working and they recently just said, "We went this way," the best you can do is be graceful about it, not try to push them or anything, because then, they're just going to slam the door on you. Dan: Yeah, you have to congratulate them on having bought well. You might be able to imply that they could buy wisely by buying you, that you actually have something better, but I don't think you can do more than create that awareness and leave it sit for the moment. I can mention a time I was meeting with a company in Canada and I pushed too hard. I saw anger on the person's face. It was a little bulge in the lower middle of the mouth just below the lower lip. It was the only negative sign during the entire meeting. Everything the person ever said was positive. I left the meeting based on seeing that little bulge that they would definitely not buy, and that proved to be true. Kim: Right, let me just... Dan: Just one moment. Kim: Exactly. It goes by in an instant. That's the in person just paying attention and being present with who you're talking to. What would you say around negation in sales, when it gets around to that? Are there any words of wisdom that you have in that sense? Dan: Fairness. If you look at behavioral economics, which is a fellow traveler to what we do, they have looked at various impulses of what makes people do things.

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For instance, fear is tremendously large. People are twice as likely to react to fear and let the fear inhibit them making a change as they are to hope. To get to hope, quite honestly, in many cases, you simply have to alleviate fear first. Fear is, I think, the most powerful of our emotions. It's very paralyzing. You can't talk someone out of fear very easily, if at all. You certainly cannot attack it head on. You'll just make them feel more panicked. I think that's the first thing. Then if you are really trying to close the deal, the negotiation, it's striking if you look at behavioral economics how much people won't do a deal even if it's in favor of them, if they think it's unfair, like the other side is getting up on them. Justice, fairness, and alleviating fear, those are the two key things, I think, finally, in the crucial last stages of negotiation.

What eye-‐tracking reveals and how to mix-‐it up Kim: Excellent. I know we're coming to the end of our time. Is there anything that I haven't asked you, that's critical, that you're like, "Why hasn't she asked me that yet?" Is there anything else around this whole world that you could say? Last, little tidbit of information for folks and what they can consider. Dan: I'm going back to eye tracking. I'm thinking about if I'm on the Internet and how you lay something out. We did a project for the "Toronto Globe and Mail." It was striking that if you looked at the eye tracking results, people knew where fence line was. What I mean by that is they were using formats where the advertising, the real sales messages, were always placed in the same place on the page. People just instinctively knew where that was. The eye tracking revealed that they go right up to the edge of that, but they wouldn't cross over. Kim: [laughs] Dan: If your website has a mixture of maybe informational content that's trying to help out people who come to the site to learn new things and things that are a little bit more hard-‐sell, I think you've got to be a little more innovative in how you mix it up. You shouldn't do it in the same format, page by page, where the information versus the sell is happening. You should use colors that connect the two parts together so that eye naturally travels across the fence line from one section to another. Even if you use a visual where, say, someone's pointing, that finger, as it's pointing, could lead them up into your hard-‐sell stuff from the informational stuff. There's all sorts of little visual tricks you can play, that can help you get across that divide.

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Otherwise, people have a very natural instinct; as I said earlier, to love to buy, not like to be sold to. If you push them too hard, you're right back to that emotional reaction of resistance, which is frustration. Kim: Exactly. Dan, thank you so much for your time. How can people engage with you, besides buying your book, which I highly recommend, "Emotionomics?" I mentioned it when I was speaking at the James J. Hill recently. People came up to ask me "Who is that author?" and stuff like that. I think this book is a must-‐read for people who are really interested in this subject. It's engaging. It's easy to read. It just really has a lot of really good stuff in it. Mine is highlighted throughout. Besides them buying that, how can they...do you have a Twitter address they can follow you at? How else? Dan: Probably the easiest way if you have a question is dhill@sensorylogic.com. Especially, for small or medium-‐sized business, we do consulting work. The facial coding research is probably a little more higher-‐ticket item than some companies might be able to afford, but you can leverage the insights we've gained over a decade by engaging me as a speaker for half-‐day seminars at your company, with your marketers, or on consulting projects. I guess the only other thing I would say is yeah, I wish James Hill was my grandfather. Then, I probably could just take my time and write books. Kim: [laughs] Thank you so much. This is what you're doing. I love how got into this, as well. I'm fascinated with the whole subject. I think you lay it out so nicely. I'm glad that you're right here in Minnesota. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you taking the time to have this conversation. Dan: I was delighted and happy to do it. Thank you for your enthusiasm. Dan: That's always good to hear. You like to write books for readers that will actually value what you wrote. Fantastic. Kim: Great. Thank you.

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