International Women’s Day: banking on women (Part 2) – men must be on board

In the second part of these feature, female executives talk about achievements and challenges, as well as the culture changes needed in the financial industry to allow more women to advance in their careers and take on senior management positions dominated by men.

Are there any women currently in the structured products industry you would like to mention for their achievements, successes or attitude?

Maryline Mertz: “The structured products industry is not short of talented women and I'm particularly glad to host the panel at the SRP conference on International Women's Day. It’s a cause I care about. The other women on the panel definitely deserve a shout out. Being a French citizen, I've always looked up to Christine Lagarde as a role model that has had an amazing career (and I feel closer to her because I am French). But my top heroines are typically outside banking, simply because this is how you get motivated and inspired. One of the people I have taken a lot of inspiration from is Serena Williams. I had the pleasure of playing with Serena once at a charity event. And she's amazing for a personality trait you will recognise a lot in the financial sector, which is that she does not stop when she gets a trophy. She wants to know what comes next. When she wins the Roland Garros, she wants to know how she's going to win Wimbledon. Obviously now she's retired, but you can already see that she continues to be inspiring in the venture capital market.”

Isabelle Millat: “I’ve worked with many inspiring women and can’t quote them all. I will choose to single out my colleague Veronique Sabbah, who spearheaded SG UK’s signature on the Women in Finance Charter. And I would also like to pay tribute to the younger women I now have the privilege to manage or mentor: with their talent and potential, they are the future of our industry!”

Anna Pinedo: “There are quite a number of notable women in derivatives, especially in the legal departments of banks, and there are structured products teams led by women, like Vanessa Simonetti at TD Securities.”

Armelle Loeb: “I would not choose just one role model because I have had many, and this has been a collective effort. Nowadays, many women have broken glass ceilings and are now part of boards and hold senior decision-making positions. As a matter of fact, I'm working with more and more women on a daily basis on the client side and they are very good at their jobs.”

And a question just for Maryline – did Serena win?

“Yes, actually she did win! Like she has 23 Grand Slams! So, this as well is very interesting. Everyone is very focused on debating whether Federer, Nadal or Djokovic should be regarded as the greatest of all time. The fact is the person with the most Grand Slams in the Open Era is Serena Williams, but we completely forget to mention that there is a woman who has actually done it before the man.”

How much harder do women have to work in banking and financial services to achieve the same as men? Do they need extra superpowers?

Diana van Maasdijk: “Well, we deal in data - If you look at the lack of gender balance particularly at high levels of financial services you have to conclude that women have a harder time to make it to leadership in this sector. Our global report last year showed that there is a leaky pipeline in financial services – the more senior you go the less women there are till just 19% of executives are female. These numbers might be improving but it’s going far too slowly. So, it’s a statement of fact that women that make it to senior positions are doing something to defy the odds and should be congratulated on that.”

Isabelle Millat: “In spite of the progress made, women in most industries still feel they have to achieve more than men to demonstrate their worth, or that they’re not granted the benefit of the doubt. We must be relentless in our fair promotion of women to leadership roles and in our mentoring efforts, both to level the playing field, and also to make sure we encourage women to continue asking for more responsibilities and promotions, as well as to voice their vision for the company. In fact, I believe than standing out in the crowd (or maybe just out of a conference panel!) because of one’s differentiating characteristics, for instance one’s gender, can be turned into an advantage, to make one’s messages heard and remembered!”

Anna Pinedo: “Over the years, the environment and the opportunities have improved and it is wonderful to see many more women in the legal departments of investment banks supporting the derivatives and structured products trading desks, and the structuring teams. There also are more women on the trading desk, on the structuring team, and involved in sales and distribution. Likewise, there are a number of women involved with the structured notes platforms in the US. Women in banking and financial services will continue to have to work harder given that they are still in the minority, and there are fewer existing formal and informal networks within the sector.”

Maryline Mertz: “I think it's not so much that you have to work harder. It's also that your performance is assessed, no matter how hard you work, against criteria that have been established by men. Let's take a concrete example. If you were asked to do an analysis of a certain trend, very often your performance will be evaluated against the summary, and against your ability to present this summary. So, do you have the ability to speak up? To not be shy in front of an audience? Your performance will probably not be measured against the thirty hours spent before arriving at the conclusion: collecting the data, analysing and understanding the correlations and different trends and different analyses; all that prep work will often be undervalued. But unfortunately, if you don't have this prep work, you don't have the conclusion as well.

So long as women don't reach a critical mass, you're still going to have this bias. So it's also about educating the men. They need to be on board. They need to feel the value. One trait that I have often recognised is you will not find a man more ready to fight the diversity code than a man who has a daughter.”

Armelle Loeb: “I've never really had that feeling myself, but I think this happens a lot to women. In my case, I always have had the support of senior managers, which happened to be mainly men, and some have been real mentors, not just managers. But some barriers are still there, and women sometimes must demonstrate twice as much value as a man just because we are still in a male-dominated environment.”

Has it become easier for women to succeed during your career span?

Maryline Mertz: “Easier? I don't know. Is it a different environment? Yeah. Twenty years ago, I remember very well joining a team of close to 20 people where there was only one woman. And I remember that sole woman telling me I should choose Goldman over other offers because she needed female support. Then ten years ago we moved into a phase where you had more support, first for gender diversity, then for other types of diversity, ethnic diversity and disability champions. There are now also questions about are we doing too much in diversity. I think it's all a question of feedback. We will not always get it right. But what's important is that we listen to feedback and that we measure

Is it a different environment now? Yeah.

and take accountability for it. And over time, we will get better. It's like career success -- it doesn't actually progress in a straight line.”

Armelle Loeb: “The culture of companies is changing and a choice between a man and a woman at the same level is less and less done based on the gender but rather on experience, achievements and skills. Companies value the talent women bring to the table and the pay gap is increasingly being addressed. There is much more understanding and support, and this is helping women to progress in their careers in a way it was not possible before. I have worked very hard and smart for 27 years and believe I’ve been rewarded because I have done a good job. However, I am sure that is very common that more high performer females experience imposter syndrome in comparison to men. I would tell any young woman that is absolutely possible for a woman to have a successful career in finance. It is a very competitive industry and that can be difficult, but I don't think it is more difficult for a woman than it is for men. The only difference is that the work-life balance might be a bit more challenging if you have kids – especially

ALL FOR ONE, ONE FOR ALL

during the first few years. However, most companies now provide the support that women need, whereas in the past women had to give up their careers to dedicate to their time fully on family.”

Isabelle Millat: “In the span of my 16+ year career in the financial industry, I am happy to report that I have seen the environment becoming more conducive to the promotion of women to leadership positions; we must however continue to strive to achieve a lot more, not only for gender diversity, but for all types of diversity, too. When exchanging with women about their definition of success, the words “making an impact”, “acting for people’s development”, or “being useful to others” tend to be a staple; these goals may be linked to women’s prominent role in sustainability positions, and they are for sure an asset to the organizations that employ them.”

Anna Pinedo: “The culture and environment at workplaces has changed in the last thirty years, and also how people view work and define success has changed.”

As well as highlighting how hard they had worked to achieve their in their careers, the women we spoke to were keen to attribute their success to those they had worked with, and in particular role models within and outside their industries.

Mayer Brown partner Anna Pinedo stressed, “To the extent that I’ve been fortunate enough to work with many of the largest financial institutions and on many novel products and structures, I attribute this to very loyal clients—for which I am grateful.”

Pinedo always appreciates the opportunity to work with clients on creative solutions and partner with them to find approaches that work, adding, “I’ve had excellent examples of what it means to be resilient, service-oriented, and practical, and I try to live up to those examples, and take setbacks in stride, and just stay with it.”