Inferno Magazine 2023

WATAIN

- THE FULL WATAIN EXPERIENCE

THIRD TIME IS THE CHARM, THEY SAY. I DON’T THINK CHARMING IS THE WORD I WOULD USE TO DESCRIBE WATAIN. TO ME THE SWEDISH BAND IS ONE FULL OF MEANING, AND NOW THAT THEY’RE GOING TO PERFORM THEIR ART FOR THE THIRD TIME AT INFERNO FESTIVAL, IT’LL GIVE EASTER EVEN MORE MEANING. TH IS ARTICLE IS BASED ON TWO CONVERSATIONS WITH E., ONE IN SPRING AND ONE IN AUTUMN. WE TALK ABOUT WATAIN, THE NEW ALBUM AND OBVIOUSLY PLAYING LIVE!

When Watain released their new album in late April, E. had been through tons of interviews. And, they had to cancel an American tour in March.

- I must admit that I have no fucking idea of what I was thinking that I would have time to do all the stuff that I do now, while also being away for a month. It makes no sense to me now. Basically, it's like this; we're working on quite a few things leading up to the album release. We're going to publish the final single that will also have a video. There’s a lot of work and the technique is mostly analogue, so it demands a lot of us. Everything is made by hand. I'd say it's pretty old school. I got hold of a team who is truly into the whole apparatus. They have all kinds of machines they will use during the recording. Apart from this, building the stage takes most of the time. If we manage to keep up the pace, we're going to be finished just in time for our first concert in May. It's not like we're out of business despite missing the tour.

So, perhaps it was for the best? E. doesn't really think so …

- Nah, the first week was very frustrating. We had put so much time and effort into this tour, we hadn't been to the States for many years. Damn, I have a hard time formulating these words. But there's one thing with Watain when such things happen. We've always tried to look at this kind of opposition and obstacles on our way as kind of rewarding. We take pride in overcoming such things instead of laying on the ground being a crybaby. We have this kind of war that we had to go into, so that's what we did now. But yeah, it is what it is and it's frustrating to know that Mayhem is still doing the tour and knowing that it would've been a great package and all. I've been in touch with them and they're doing great, having their dream tour of their life. People bought ticket to see both of us, so I guess both Mayhem and the audience go all in when the situation turned out like it did.

So, what about Watain and the upcoming concerts?

- First, we'll do is a festival in Holland in late May. We didn't really book so many festivals this summer because we wanted to put our focus in going on tour in September with Abbath and Tribulation. That will be our main start! But it will be good to do these few festivals before that, to feel the sensation and get a bit back in order. We'll open the new chapter in our ceremonial way, with the new stage setup. The main problem now is that we would need a new tank to transport everything, because the setup is very heavy. There's a lot of steel! We have a great feeling about this, and it's definitely the most ambitious thing we've built for our stage thus far.

Watain played at Rockefeller in Oslo on the 6th of October. The concert at Rockefeller was simply brilliant and it made me think that Easter 2023 is too far away. But more on Inferno later.

The last time we spoke was in connection with "The Wild Hunt". How do you view this album now 8-9 years later? Did people get beyond the fact that you did a couple of tracks with clean vocals? "They Road On" was different and a bold take …

- Well, unfortunately I have a bit of that feeling. When I talk to people about the album, it doesn't take long before they bring up "They Road On". I mean, it's fine, but in hindsight I should've expected that. It is the song that gets most attention and judging by Spotify it is the track from that album that has most plays. If I had known, I'm not sure we would’ve put the track on the album. But the thing is that I actually listened to a demo version of that song yesterday when I was in the car going through some older material for my own sake.

If there's any album that has material that truly transports me back to a certain time and place, it's that album. I don't know why, but I think …

I invested emotionally into that album in another way than previously. I opened up and didn't give a fuck … I just wanted us to write a huge album and kind of drown in it. This is how I view it when I look back at it. It was a big thing for all of us to do that album. Of course, every album is a big thing, but it was an intentionally bigger thing, if that makes sense. I think you can hear it. I can hear it still and I think we didn't miss on that point; I think we made a pretty big album. It was a generous album to the listeners because we didn't hold back anything, and I don't think we fucked up either. There's rich material on "The Wild Hunt". It's a different album to look back on compared to the other ones, that's for sure.

The four albums prior to "The Wild Hunt" were more like step by step in the same direction while Watain's fifth was more like open up a door and seeing all the different paths in front of you. Yet every path would be a path of Watain, to put it like that.

- Yeah, I see what you mean. I don't think we thought about this at all when we did the album. What we did with "The Wild Hunt" was to seek musical wilderness. Wilderness is a word that often comes to me when I think of the album, and that was also a main inspiration when we did it. Seeing how things went on, where we found ourselves when we wrote the following album, it was definitely like you say. We had put ourselves in a situation where we could do whatever the fuck we wanted! Who doesn't want to go there as an artist?

I guess Tore (Necromorbus Studio) doesn't have a hidden button which says, "the sound of Watain", and you just plug in and press record? You have to find each record's own sound, to put it like that. E. laughs.

- You know, he's always scratching his head during our recordings. We've talked a lot about this, and he says that he never knows what he's doing until we're close to the end of the session. It's weird, but on every album, we've had extreme dialogues about what the fuck we're going to do. We agree on certain points, but how shall we work with these points and what we're doing here? We also talk a lot about what it should not be, what the result should not be. We listen to many albums that sound shit in the studio, and we work our way away from that. I’m happy to work with Tore. He's a strange motherfucker, that guy, he's an enigma. He knows he can't fuck up with Watain and he works like he has a knife at his throat! Apparently, it works.

How much time did you spend recording the new album?

- We went into the studio; we spent two days to decorate the studio which is located in a church that Tore bought. Then we drew a pentagram on the floor that was like six meters in diameter, we positioned ourselves in each of the five points since there are five of us in the band now, we plugged in and started to rehearse the songs in that setting. We had already rehearsed a lot since we were going to record the album live, but we rehearsed for a week in the church to get used to the situation, so to speak. Then we pressed record, and we recorded the songs in like two weeks in total.

The obvious point with the album title is of course fast, aggressive track and slower, more profound tracks. But knowing you, there is (probably) more than what meets the ear. Could you elaborate a bit about "The Agony & Ecstasy Of Watain", the title and why it ended up like this?

- Well, it started with the word ecstasy. That's been in my mind in connection with Watain for a very long time. We also had the track "Ecstasies in Night Infinite" already done. But you know me, I'm a sucker for big, epic titles. C'mon, "Trident Wolf Eclipse", "Lawless Darkness", "The Wild Hunt", I guess that's just my language when it comes to album titles. I love big titles like "The Passion Of The Christ", which is the greatest title that I know of. I also like "The Possession Of Emily Rose", "The Ecstasy Of Saint Teresa" and titles that refers to an actual entity. Then I began to toy around with this idea and what if for example Sodom had released an album called "The Agony & Ecstasy Of Sodom"? Or, you know, "The Agony & Ecstasy Of Morbid Angel"? That would've been albums that I would really like to hear. What would they mean by those titles? I would be interested in a title that refers to something outside of a band instead of a title that reveals exactly what is on the album. In the end I think it becomes a very personal and bold title for a band to use, and I will say a bit about the two words ecstasy and agony. They can be regarded as the twofoldedness of Watain. You know, the logo of Watain is…, I only drew half of the logo. The W and the A and half of the T, and then I mirrored it and then it became the logo. These two halves meet at the cross in the centre. So, there's always been this symmetry, the twofoldedness of Watain and the band name is divided into two sections, wat and ain. Wat is Thai for temple, and ain which is Hebrew for the primordial nothingness that existed before existence. I wanted to have this twofoldedness in the title. Agony and ecstasy can represent the emotional duality of sorts. Maybe agony is the existential darkness of humankind, the struggle and suffering of existence, while ecstasy on the other hand is this euphoric state of transcendence, if you will. Both are like emotional anomalies, they're like altered states of consciousness. They're not normal states of consciousness, they're extreme in that sense. They are brought on by intense experience, some sort of trauma maybe, or a climax. They belong to each spectre of emotions in Watain, they are opposites, you know? I boil it down to that maybe agony is the blood and ecstasy is the fire of Watain.

It would be strange if you called it "Agony & Ecstasy" only.

- Exactly. I mean, I wasn't sure about how the title would come across, but the more I've lived with it, the more content I have become. It is very representative in many ways about what this album is about, in terms of honesty as well.

I would've been, I mean, I think it would've been out of place if it only dealt with the fast and slower tracks, to put it like that.

- Yeah, exactly, but it's funny how you put it because for me the agony side of the music would probably be the slower and darker parts, while the ecstasy side would be the fiery, fast, and rampant parts. This is something I love about this title; it's kind of brute, but it still opens up for interpretations on a quite wide scale.

My favourite track is "Before The Cataclysm", which is like a train moving slowly, yet not possible to stop, despite the short, calm middle section. It is also the track that brings my memory the most back to "Lawless Darkness". When you write a track, like this, do you always think about what the track needs, no matter if it can be compared to this or that, or is reminiscent of another track or album? Are eventual similarities just a part of the game since you have written seven albums by now?

- It is a part of the game, yes. As we've talked about earlier, I have realized that I have my musical language and I'm quite proud of that. I don’t see it being stolen or photocopied by others, at least not in a very striking way. I'm happy that Watain have these things that become like … hopefully not repetitive but showing signs that you're listening to the band and that you can draw direct lines in between the songs. I must add that I try to look at things at a larger scale and I want to go for things that I feel strongly for, that means something, that doesn't just sound cool. I wish that bands could just do that because that's how you ought to write music. You take the things that you feel strongly for, that makes you sweat a little bit when you have the guitar in your hand, when you start to feel that something is really happening here. You shouldn't do it any other way because it won't be any good. You should always stick to the things that make you feel strong, regardless of whether it sounds a bit similar to other things you've done or not. That's beside the point, since the point is to make something that really feels powerful to yourself.

When I meet up with E. in Oslo, 6th of October, they are preparing themselves for the concert later that date. And as said, it turned out to be another fantastic meeting with Watain’s music. E. also found time to dedicate one track to Metalion, something I know he highly appreciated. Watain also did “Before The Cataclysm” from the new album as well as many other from their strong discography. But how has the tour been, now that you’re reaching the final dates with three more gigs including Oslo tonight?

- Well, at first, I thought it would be hard to get into the touring thing again, because it is a pretty rough situation for mind and body, and you do these things almost every night. It tends to fuck you up a little bit, you know? I’ve been proven wrong. It’s been …, I don’t know if it is the right word, but it’s been quite good to be back again. It’s not like we haven’t done anything those three years off touring. We’ve been writing a lot of music; we’ve rehearsed a lot and we recorded the album. It’s been fantastic to play live again, and I think we’re in a good place now. Everyone in the band is in tune and has a very similar intent and approach.

On this tour you’re doing now, there are four different bands. I read somewhere that this is a co-headling tour?

- Yes, it is on paper, but we’ve played last. This is due to the production, because we have quite a lot of things on stage, so it’s just way easier for us to do it like this.

You said something about building a new stage when we spoke last spring. So, what did you have to do when you came to the smaller venues?

- At some places you have to be a bit creative, yes. We have a fantastic crew, and together we manage to make it work. In general, the stage set was made for venues of the size of Rockefeller, with some 1000-1500 capacity. We did this set on festivals during the summer, but now that we’ve played indoor venues, we feel that it has come to its place. We’ve been able to absorb these ideas into the live context, living with them for quite some time. It has been very powerful to do these concerts. Doing them for so many nights, being up there, being a part of it – it has been more and more meaningful.

This may be a stupid question, but do you feel that the new album is coming more into place doing this tour? I think you play four or five songs from it …

- Yeah, four or five, depending on the setlist. We change it a bit every night. The simple answer to your question is yes. I really like having the songs coming to life, both the new as well as older songs. It’s cool to experience how the details, the twists, and turns, develop, and become a part of us.

Do you think people notice this, or is more something you notice in the band?

- Well, if people have listened a lot to the albums and really pay attention when we play live. I know that I would approach music I love this way. We do play music that is quite detailed, and people would notice if a detail was missing or tweaked a little bit. We do work with our music from the original ideas we have, but during the process we do twist and turn and may end up somewhere else than we originally intended. I think it’s a reward as a listener as well as a performer, to listen, to feel the music and to pay extra attention to the details.

E. told me last spring that they recorded the album as a band, so in that sense I don’t think the songs would be that different tonight compared to the album versions.

- I think this new material has a more direct line between the studio recordings and what happens on stage because of the way we recorded it, in that live setting. We’ve been playing the songs non-stop since we recorded the album. The first thing we did after we got the final mix was to go into the rehearsal room again and perform the whole album.

I’m glad you’ve “Before The Cataclysm” in the setlist. I would imagine it being the toughest song for you to play live. But when I drove into town I listened to the new album and a song like “The Howling” may seem like a simpler track, but there are small changes almost all the time.

- “Before The Cataclysm” is a complex track and there are parts that are stretched out, making it a perfect live song. It’s the song that we’ve been talking about the most as a band, after it was finished. You have the changes in the song, the various moods, and it’s a song that we play quite late in the set, which I think fits perfectly. It’s great to have a song like this that shakes the ground in a way, and it’s also one that is mentally and physically interesting to do as a performer. I usually let out all steam already during the first song, and after that I have to find another power source to tap into something else. One way of doing that is really to perform songs that are really meaningful to you. At least that’s how I make it work.

Watain do “Devil’s Blood” and the even older track “Angelrape” during this tour. And the band is soon 25 years old. Now, does a song like “Devil’s Blood”, from 2003’s “Casus Luciferi”, feel pretty much the same as a newer song when you perform the during the same concert?

- I feel deeply for that as well as a lot of the older songs we’ve done. I guess I can still relate strongly to the original idea of this song, and I feel that we are able to master it and tap into the song more easily now that we know this song quite well. It is a privilege to write music that is emotional, and energy based, if you see what I mean? There’s this atmosphere, and it is also a quite easy song to get into, you know? If someone puts on “Morbid Visions” by Sepultura, I’m not going to not react. I’m going to feel that song. The same goes for …, or even more when it comes to material you’ve written yourself, a song that you had a quite clear idea about. It is one of the rewards doing Watain, to be able to perform something that actually means something to you, performing material you can’t really be emotionless about. It’s impossible for me to do our songs halfway!

Watain will play at Inferno Festival 2023. But before that they have played at the Abyss Festival in the beginning of November, and they will do a South American tour before the end of the year. It’s still half a year to the festival in Norway, but will it look pretty much the same as now, if you have even begun to think about it?

- You never know, but it will definitely not be the same set as we do tonight. What we like with festivals like Inferno is that people get a chance to compare us to many other bands. I like that and see that as a pretty cool challenge. And perhaps a few people watch us and think “aha, now I get it”. So, with that in mind we’re going to do a performance that is as much Watain as possible, with everything that means. We’re going to make sure that people that haven’t seen Watain before will get the chance to have the full experience. I love playing with Watain in Norway, and perhaps also remind people a bit about how things used to be done back in time and how things can be done if you really want it to.

Have you ever done this popular thing where bands play the whole album?

- We did a short 7-dates tour with Mayhem where they did the whole “De Mysteriis …” and we did the whole of “Casus Luciferi”. That was back in 2017, and it was a cool experience. We also did a 7”-inch bootleg split with Mayhem, with one live song from each band. I like the idea, though I don’t think I would do a full tour like that. I mean, I would much rather see Destruction do all of “Infernal Overkill” than a set spanning over several decades. I haven’t heard their last few albums, but I would go any day to see them doing that album, yes.

In 2007 you played at Inferno, at John Dee, while in 2014 you did your ceremony at the main stage. Do you remember anything from the first gig? I remember a few people reacted on the smell, since they weren’t prepared.

- It was great. If I remember correctly, it was at the ending of the Celtic Frost tour we did. We had been on tour for four weeks when we played at Inferno. We were in a good/bad shape. I remember we enjoyed that pretty much and I also remember that we made a point out of playing at our first Norwegian festival as a Swedish black metal band. It was right after “Sworn To The Dark” was released, and just a few months after Jon passed away. It was intense times.

When we spoke last time, we didn’t talk about the lyrics and I’m not sure if I really want to either. Some things are better left … But you did a trackby-track with Sweden Rock?

- Yeah, and I think I ended up talking more about the concepts than the music. I guess I could write a book about them, though. I think the lyrics are as essential as they could get, and sometimes it’s great to describe what they are about.

When I heard “Before The Cataclysm” and read the lyrics I thought about life and death and Watain and I got this question in my head that I had to ask you. Do you do Watain because you have to, or is it perhaps because you want to leave a mark?

- I think about leaving a mark every now and then as a public performer. But I think it has to do be … meaningful. I don’t know if leaving a mark is the thing here, but how do people leave a mark? It is because they do something meaningful! And that is important to me. We don’t have that much time, and I know people who aren’t here anymore, but who definitely did leave a mark by doing incredible things, you know? I don’t see why we wouldn’t do the same. I’m not here to fuck around, you know?

I also thought about meeting certain people again, meeting those who are worthy.

- It is a special lyric. It is a kind of free form of writing. It is not based on a specific set of approach death, it’s a quite loose poem, I would say. And it’s about death and the afterlife, and perhaps a lot about what’s going in between.

It is named “Before The Cataclysm”, not after…

- Yes, but before can also mean that you’re standing before something! You’re in front of the moment when you face it. It is a special song, and it’s very cool to perform it live and every single word in that lyric I enjoy singing out loud. It makes me think of great things and it’s very easy to get into.

Watain performs at John Dee stage Saturday 8. April 23.30.