L.A.
Could you tell me a little bit about “Letters to Live By”? So, “Letters to Live By,” man, that’s the name of my first volume for my lettering reference guide that I put out in 2010. It was an accumulation of multiple works that I had. A lot of them were drawn up when I was incarcerated. I saved up a lot of envelopes that I mailed to my girl. There are a lot of alphabets in there, a lot of letter forms that have become pretty recognized and sought after in the tattoo industry.
I thought it’d be dope to share those with the community of tattooers. And I know that those letters play a big role in all the writing that goes down in the tattoo industry. A lot of people love those letter forms indigenous to LA or Southern California. So, that's still my most popular book to date, man ⸺ I’ve also heard that “Letters to Live By” has been described as a cultural sanctuary. Yeah, well, that was the catalyst, right? “Letters to Live By.” When I put that book together, it was kind of new to the mainstream tattoo industry. I had been tattooing for a lot of years ⸺ Why was it considered mainstream? What were the differences? Well, before that, I was tattooing only while I was incarcerated, or just underground, or in the
neighborhoods, you know? I hadn’t hit the tattoo industry where I was doing expos and having shops with the public walking in and stuff like that. So, the mainstream side of things, I just mean tattooing at expos and things that are different from where I was used to tattooing at ⸺ So, the cultural sanctuary part of it, how did that come about? The cultural sanctuary part of it, I think “Letters to Live By” was initially put together just to introduce my lettering into the industry. Being at expos and shops with walk-in clients was a bit newer to me. When I put that book out, I was pretty fresh out of prison. I might have still been wearing an ankle bracelet or something ⸺ How did you come up with the name for “Letters to Live By”? I had this book and people were like, “Oh, cool. You got all this dope stuff. What are you going to name it?” And I’m like, “Oh, shit.” So, I didn't have a name for it and didn’t even know where I was going to sell it. I called my brother for help to come up with a name on the spot. And he’s like, “Bro, you've been lettering your whole life, man. That's what you do. You fucking letter. That's you." Everything you touch is letters, and without saying it, people can see your stuff and recognize it without even having a signature next to it. They know that's your style.
So, he suggested, “Name it ‘Letters to Live By.’ That’s what you do. You live with lettering. You live by lettering." And the name was just kind of born to put on the book for starters. I didn't even realize that it was going to create a movement that would take me around the globe doing lettering seminars and merchandise. It kind of exploded unexpectedly into something I didn’t even realize was possible ⸺ How did the book impact your career? I didn't even realize that it was going to create a movement that would take me around the globe, like doing lettering seminars and merchandise. It kind of exploded unexpectedly into something that I didn't even realize was possible. To this day, I still feel like putting that book out as an authentic LA hand style guy, you know, kind of took me up on a different level pretty fast ⸺ And when you say "pretty fast," could you elaborate on that time period and its challenges? Certainly. At that time, I believe MySpace was around. It was harder to get known; there was no instant fame or anything like that. You had to put in a lot of work for people to know you. And I had already been doing so for a few decades, doing lettering in neighborhoods and all these places in LA. What happened was that I brought all these letter forms that were purely LA, recognizable as LA, and could even be labeled as gang writing. I love all forms of letters, but the strong letters that I put out are very distinct, a gang style of letterings born in the neighborhoods of LA. They were like our version of calligraphy, I call them, you know, like hieroglyphics in the neighborhoods. They were really sought after ⸺ How did you realize the impact of your work? Early on, I realized that I had put something into a book that was kind of sacred, and a lot of people were going to view these letters and start saying, "Wow, I want to see more." It created this hype and buzz. I remember when I started traveling, a lot of people were drawn specifically to those letters, even the most illegible ones versus the fine, fancy script. It was just something different, something new, and they started becoming very sought after. I wasn't the inventor of these letters; they had been in our culture for a very long time, dating way back into the early 1900s, when people were scribing on the sidewalks in LA ⸺ Can you share more about your personal connection to these letter forms? Growing up in downtown Los Angeles in the Pico Union District, when I walked out of my house as a young boy, everything was letters to live by. We all wanted to mark our names, our walls. That's where we expressed ourselves. So, I was very strongly influenced by those letter forms as a kid. Now, as a young teenager, I start tattooing and putting these letters on that are very popular in our nation, very popular in our neighborhood. They came naturally to us, something that was practiced a lot amongst our neighborhoods ⸺ How did the perception of these letter forms change over time? I didn't realize that outside of our neighborhood, the only time people got to see those letter forms was on the Internet, maybe a quick glimpse in Teen Angel magazine. They weren't like New York graffiti, which had exploded worldwide. Even for us in LA, when New York graffiti came, we were amazed; it was different. So, I feel like that timing really helped elevate my name. At that time, I was very new in the tattoo industry, and it helped people start buying my book, thanks to the help of an individual named Wendy Belzel. She believed the book was amazing and would do really good ⸺ How did your book's reach expand internationally? Little did I know, distributors in Europe and elsewhere would get their hands on that book because those lettering books sell globally. People started buying the book, and a few years down the road, as I began traveling, I realized people knew who I was because they had seen the book. It was almost creating this lane for me that I hadn't even explored yet. When I got to London for the first time in 2012, as nervous as I was, people were waiting for me to come over and tattoo them based on these letter forms. It created the movement, the hashtag, the letters to live by. I ended up building a website off of it and creating a merchandise line without intending to. It started with, "Hey, you should make some shirts," and all these crazy things came of it, creating a cool movement for many years around the world. I traveled to Brazil, Copenhagen, and started painting with all the local graph heads everywhere, doing my art everywhere ⸺ Would you say that that unites people? It definitely does, man. I come from a place where lettering on walls was very dangerous. Like where I lettered, and the type of lettering that I practiced was different from graffiti. When I marked on the walls, I had to be looking over my shoulder. If I was doing something on a wall, that was large scale, I had somebody watch my back to ensure that kids from the next block or a couple of streets down didn't come and shoot me, bro. It's very different from practicing that art as a teenager to practicing it now as a grown man in a positive light and form. I saw the unity it created, and it opened up my eyes in a different way. There was no more paranoia, no having to look over your shoulder, if that makes sense. A lot of people see the letters and are very intrigued by where they come from.
And a lot of the seminars really tested my ability to decide what I wanted to share and what I didn't want to share as an artist. In the beginning, I thought I would only share certain things and leave out some of
the negative aspects. But honestly, the beauty of the story is that the negative and the positive of it all ties together. The fact that I'm doing very good things and positive things with my art, despite its background possibly being frowned upon by some people. Some might think these kids are just vandalizing or scribbling on walls or doing gang writings. However, it does unify people because it was proven. I had to prove that to myself and to the world that through my art, through my letter forms, we created a significant movement. We literally traveled around the world, tattooing in every country, just with letters, making a living off of it. We built a company and created a group of followers that wanted to be part of our movement ⸺ So, let's talk about the museums and the Scratch exhibit. Right. And here's another good conversation to build off of when it comes to what these letters can do and where we can take our art, if we're looking at things with an open mind and an open heart. When the Scratch exhibit came out, I was already traveling. I had gone to Europe multiple times, Scandinavia, all over. I still feel fortunate and blessed every day that I think about that, to have been able to travel like that with my art ⸺ That exhibit seemed to be a turning point for you. Yes, I really had no clue what would come of that exhibit. I have a really good friend of mine, a man I consider a mentor, named Duffer. He invited me to be part of this huge exhibit curated by the Getty at the El Segundo Museum of Art. They were putting together a book called "The Book of Friends," or Liber Abicorum, in the Getty Research Institute. About one hundred and fifty artists contributed to this book.
They decided to curate a show for a large group of artists in El Segundo. At this point, I was fully immersed in tattooing. I felt like I was excelling in that area, painting very minimally, drawing a lot. The way I paint now was very minimal and still in the early stages. My friend invited me to be part of the show. Being from an art crew called K2S, which stands for Kill to Succeed, I agreed, though I could only be there a few days each month due to my travel schedule ⸺ It sounds like this was a moment of growth for you. Definitely. Initially, I was thinking with a closed mind. He explained the significance of the show, emphasizing that there was no money involved. At that point in my life, I was just starting to get on track, doing positive things for the first time. I was focusing on the financial side, having recently become financially stable through art, staying out of jail and trouble. My friend sat me down and explained the prestige behind the show, mentioning the involvement of the Getty and art collectors.
Honestly, I was nervous about the caliber of artists I would be working with. Despite considering myself top-notch in the tattoo industry and being fearless, I doubted myself. But after considering it, I committed to the project. My friend put it simply: these shows happen every year. He advised me to join them next year but to be part of this show with them that year. So, I jumped on board. We painted for about 30 days straight, with probably about 100 artists there.
You know, we give it our all. Everybody. I mean, every single mural in there was top-notch. I got so hyped, man, I started tagging the floors, and even the floors were completely turned into murals, man. And this was probably 100 feet across each side, maybe 28, 30 feet high. Like, this whole museum was encapsulated with panels because the whole show got taken down afterward and put away.
But I didn't realize the magnitude of that show. And to make my point, the day of the opening, the crowd that came to that show was a whole different crowd than I had been used to witnessing at any tattoo event or things of that nature. It was art collectors, gallery owners, people from museums, photographers, and interior designers, people that I hadn't mingled with before at that level.
And the people that I met during that time, I mean, I'm just being honest, man. Some of them are my great friends now, but they were a little intimidated even to approach me for a photograph. And they're like, "Excuse me, sir, may I take your picture?" cleaning their cameras and all, man. And kind of thinking like, these guys are in a room with people that kind of look, maybe a little intimidating to them or whatever. We ended up becoming great friends with a lot of those people. And that was probably my best introduction into the fine art world.
Like, since that show, the friendships that I built and the shows that I participated in have been nonstop. It was like consistent growth. And I got a taste of something different. Right. So, it reignited a different fire in me, man. I just got a taste of a whole new world. As much as I love tattooing and spray painting these walls, this feeling that I had from that show was something new. And I wanted to get more of that, man. The introductions that were made and the people that I was introduced to at these shows took me on a different journey. They opened up my career to meeting people who wanted me to paint their hotels or collect my art, put me in gallery shows, different things.
And bringing that idea to some tattooers are like, "Forget that. Let's just do this show. We're going to kill it." Right. You know, at that point, 'killing it' was consistent. If you go, you visit another country and you think, "Wow, look at where I'm at. I'm tattooing here in Rome, right in Copenhagen." And that's a beautiful thing. But there's always more. Right. You just have to be able to see that there's a lot more. You can always climb that mountain, and there's somewhere higher to go, and higher to go. And I think that changed the way I thought; it opened up my mind in a way that I didn't even expect.
Around that time, I went full-fledged, like now I'm juggling tattooing and painting full-time because I fell in love with painting way more than I had, or it reignited that urge to paint.
So, where a lot of people might tap out on that idea, I went all in, man. I tattooed all day. And afterward, I would go and paint in a studio almost all night, man, for a few years nonstop. You know, and I think the same is if you stay ready, you don't have to get ready. Right. I really feel like I took that saying and made it a reality, bro, because I was accumulating so much art, painting every night, every night. And there was no real purpose. I wasn't painting like, "Oh, I'm going to sell all these pieces or anything." I was just painting because I just got a taste of that ability to express and started experimenting with a lot of art. And I think when these shows came knocking on the door, I was ready, man. And it's been a nonstop growth spurt ⸺ What would young you,
14, 15, 16-year-old you, think if he saw you now, and if you could see him now, what would you say? That's a very good question, man. If Little Sleeps could see me now, Big Sleeps, right at this age, I think he wouldn't even be able to fathom it. My mind was in a different place at that age. I think the only connectivity that existed was my passion for art. I say art because I almost feel like I'm talking about two different people. The way I thought, you know, and the way that I existed in the world back then was totally different. But I think one can't be without the other, right? As negative as my younger years were, and as much, you know, trials and things like that. You know, trials and tribulations I experienced as a youngster, I put myself in some pretty rough predicaments.
You know, my upbringing was amazing. My mother was amazing and taught us good morals. But as soon as I left my home, I was exposed to the L.A. gang life, right in the '80s and in the '90s, which was something to reckon with.
And, you know, it shaped me to be this individual that thought a certain way. I think if I was to be able to really see the metamorphosis or where all that hardship would have taken me, I'd never believe it. I mean, there would be no way to even fathom traveling there, just thinking in a positive way.
You know, they say diamonds are formed under pressure. I think during the process, you're very unaware of what beauty might lie ahead if you don't throw in the towel or give up. I never gave in, man. Despite the many mistakes I made as a youngster and the many obstacles I faced, I always tried and tried. The most I ever thought I would see the world was through a National Geographic magazine in a prison cell or a jail cell because that was my escape.
Like just looking at magazines or books in jail. As a kid, you never know what's going to come. And the way I grew up, I didn't even think I was going to live to be 20 or 25, bro. I put myself in that mindset, maybe to psyche myself out, and really had this attitude about life that kind of resonated with the environment I was in. But, you know, if I could see myself now as a kid and give guidance, I think I do that now because I go back and take the time to do a lot of workshops with kids in my neighborhood where I grew up that are still experiencing those types of things ⸺ And what would you say to yourself? I'd honestly say, you know, there's something past that finish line that sometimes we can't see, right? Sometimes there's light at the end of the tunnel, but sometimes that light is so far away you can't even catch a glimpse of it ⸺ So, how do you convince somebody that there's something better at the end of that road, on the other side of that mountain? I just tell myself not to give up, man. To keep pushing. And those words might go in one ear and out the other, man, because, you know, my brother and my family always tried to give me good advice, and I never took it, right? I wanted to learn on my own, and it was a rough learn, for sure. It was a very hard bargain. I chose some crazy roads and had to deal with the consequences.
You know, I spent a lot of time incarcerated. I sharpened up a lot of my lettering skills while incarcerated. While my passion for art never died and it hasn't died even until now. I've caught myself drawing in prison cells, tattooing in jail cells. I've sat there and drawn in hospitals, right? After suffering gunshot wounds from being involved in gangs, and always finding that urge to create and draw. And I don't know if that was a message or just something in my DNA.
Now, that same tool that I used as a pastime became my career and it became a brand; it became me. Big Sleeps just became something different, right? It wasn't even intended to be a brand or a label or anything. It was just me trying to do positive and do art to stay out of trouble, really. And it kind of morphed into something where people would say, "Man, how did you create this career? How did you plan all this?" I'm like, "Here." Like everything came from here. So there were really no mistakes. You can't make a mistake when you're following what's in your heart, bro, you know?
If we went left and there was a roadblock, we... Boom! Go right and then make a U-turn. Just say, in life, if you get lost, what do you do, man? You hit a dead end, you go back, go around, find another road, and you go back again, you get a flat tire, you get off, you fix it. That's how my life's been, bro. You know, I started trying to do these things just to stay off parole and get out of trouble, and all these good things started happening. And I started honing in on that feeling of like, "I gotta follow this, man." And I gotta not be afraid to take these chances in life that present themselves because I might not get that chance again, bro, you know?
⸺ Could you tell me a little bit about how you’re going back and impacting your community and helping out? Yeah, so, you know, how I'm going back to my community and helping out or impacting it, I don't know that you could ever impact it the way you want, you know? It's so much work and so much time involved, but the reality of it is I don't forget where I come from, right? And, you know, every year I go back to the neighborhood where I grew up, to Toberman Park, to Pico Union, and, you know, I give the kids there my time. You know, at first it was one or two artists. Now it's about 70 artists that come out, and it went from a small group of kids to a couple of hundred kids. Initially, there was no money for art supplies, so we were bringing scraps of things. Now, we're giving away backpacks full of merchandise and art supplies. The kids are doing canvases with very high-profile artists and taking those home. It's become an annual event at this park, which is still regarded as one of the most dangerous parks in L.A. We have the presence of LAPD, which shares its resources with us and comes to ensure everything runs smoothly. But I think it's a beautiful thing because we did it from the heart and to spend some time with the kids. When you experience that, sitting there drawing with all these kids, you're able to reflect. I sat at this park as a kid. I did drugs here, we had shootouts here, and I've seen a couple of friends get shot here. But here I am, 30, 35 years later, drawing with these kids and giving them a sense of positivity. When I was growing up, that park had a lot of drug use. We didn't have too many options. This park was dangerous, but everybody knew us there, unlike other parks which were dangerous but where nobody
knew us, putting us in a bad position. Being there, I developed friendships with these kids and saw their purity and their desire to create art and learn.
Now, there's social media and all these other platforms where they start following you, sharing with you, and doing all these things to get your attention. You realize your impact is not just from that one visit but now, knowing I'm an artist. In today's time, social media plays a significant role in everyone's life, whether we're marketing our brands, posting our best art pictures, and everything in between. I've built so many friendships with kids, their parents, and various groups of people at these events.
We're getting restaurants involved, and I've started giving talks at juvenile halls. It has kind of become the new thing, as what Esmore did for me in the Scratch exhibit, lighting a new fire that's been nonstop. This is a whole new chapter in my career. I've done all these things that put me in a position to be incarcerated and all these bad things I didn't want to share, but I always feel like maybe they weren't meant to be shared right away. Now, I see that when I do share them, even with the kids at juvenile hall, and let them know, "Hey, I've been there. I've sat in your chair. You know, I've been here." I feel like that's the right time to share because, "But look at where I'm at today and look at where you could be if you put your mind to something positive." And for me, art is just a catalyst, but now it's not just art. It's not just my tattooing. I've built a brand and done all these other things, but now it's my lifestyle that I can share with them and say, any passion you have could turn into a career, right?
Some of those kids are talented poets, rappers, and many other things, like football players. I think it's just about applying that discipline and willpower to push forward that drives that ⸺ So, could you tell me a bit about this back piece that you’re working on with Soul Care? Today, I have a back piece that I'm working on here at the studio. I don't tattoo as much because of all the things I have going on. I have a few days of work that I've done—a few days that I tattoo, a few days that I paint, and then I'm involved in running my companies. But today, I'm fortunate enough to have a tattoo sitting here, a large-scale piece, while you guys are in my studio filming.
The guy and I have been planning it for a while. It's a large-scale back piece. Today, most of the outline is getting put on. It's in Spanish. There's a group that comes from the same neighborhood that I come from, and they go by the name of Cycle Realm. They have a pretty famous song called " El Mundo Es Un Barrio," which translates to "The World as a Ghetto." ⸺ So, homeboy’s getting that on his back, right? Yes, "El Mundo Es Un Barrio." It's in a variety of lettering styles. I have two guys with me here at the studio. It's a collaborative piece that's going on his back. I have two talented artists from Mexico joining me to collaborate on it. It's pretty cool. Once the letters are done, there'll be some imagery going on there. Some Los Angeles skyline is going to go on there, along with a gas mask in the background. The gas mask is the logo for the group Cycle Realm. It's a very famous logo, a gas mask with a fedora hat, and a pretty dope image. But the other side will have maybe like a skyline or some imagery of Mexico, Tijuana, or something. It's just showing the similarities in different neighborhoods in the world, like in different ghettos or whatever ⸺ How long are you working on it today? I'm working on it maybe for eight hours today. If I get a chance to work on it that long, we'll be able to see the progress throughout the day. What else do I need to answer on that? That's the first one. I only have a couple of questions left. I want to go back to the letters to live by because that beginning, it was challenging. I was listening to you and the dude's hammering down there ⸺ What about the mural? What’s the first stop? The first stop is going to be Long Beach, California. There's a mural called "Determination." I named it that because when the commission opportunity came and the city of Long Beach approached me, I thought it would be dope not to say yes right away and to try to tie in an extra factor, to bring something to make that mural special. At this point, I'm very busy, and I said, I don't want to just do another mural. My wife and I have this agreement that when murals come to us, or projects of that magnitude, if there's an opportunity to get kids involved or to create a workshop where kids can come and benefit from the mural as well, not just get a paycheck, do the mural, and run off, we'll emphasize that in the contract.
So, this time when they brought it to our attention, luckily, they were open to the idea. We said we'll do the mural. I'll name the mural the whole project. It went on the Long Beach City Transit Wall. It's a pretty big mural. I don't remember the exact size of it, but let's say it's about 20 feet high by 80 feet long or something. I named it "Determination" because we were all able to put our heads together and say, let's get a whole group of kids, get a youth center, create a workshop for the kids, a four-series workshop. I'll teach the kids how to paint murals and how to paint and prep and do letters in a four-series shop like full-day murals. And then they can assist either on that mural or I'll do a project with them painting electrical boxes in Long Beach. And they agreed, and we agreed, and I said, okay, cool.
You know, we did the workshop with the kids. We named it "Determination." And it gave it more pop, man. It was just that special thing about that mural that felt good to push myself even harder. And I wanted to do those workshops every time I landed from a trip. So every workshop that I did, there were four, there were four workshops. I was traveling out of the country, and every time I would get back, the workshop was the next day. So, I was in Denmark for a week or two. And then I came back, and I knew I had to come back and teach those kids.
So there was no chance, no jet lag, nothing. I went to maybe Panama. I don't remember all the spots where I was at, but every workshop was directly after a long trip. I came back inspired. I was on fire, and those kids, they were amazing, man. We did mock canvases and whatever I could teach, I gave them all that. Unfortunately, the electrical box part didn't come through. There were some technicalities with the city approving it and all that. But the kids were all happy at the end. Everyone got their certificates. Everyone got everything. The mural was done. It's still standing there today. It's one of my favorite murals. The colors that I use are way
off of what I normally use. But, you know, once you see it, it'll make sense. Yeah, I wanted to touch on that one, and I could go back to this one and chop it down a little bit. That one just means a lot. The other ones are a little bit more...
So, we're looking at another mural. It's at a restaurant called Garia Tacos, where I did the inside and the outside of the building. And this one is just kind of me having that artistic freedom to decorate their walls. They got the best food in LA too, man. Some of the best food you've ever tried, but I've had multiple compliments. When you look at mural number one that we're visiting versus this one, totally different styles, totally different techniques. And I think that's the beauty of doing these. You get to kind of explore different ways of texturing walls and putting your art on there. Mural number three is a commission mural as well ⸺ What is the next mural that we are looking at? The next mural that we're looking at is in downtown LA.
It's a more simplified mural; big black matte wall background and just gold letters. We wanted to make this wall very special. And we wanted to be able to see that gold pop even at night with this gold shimmer; the reasoning behind this one, you know, they, they hit me up in the process of painting the mural that we just saw and they wanted some of my art on there. They thought it would kind of help keep band, you know, people from vandalizing that wall and it worked, man. This mural has been standing there for a while. It's one of my favorite murals in LA too. I think I need to be in front of it to really describe it ⸺ Let’s go back to Letters to Live By and then I’m going to ask you if there’s anything else you want to talk about. Are there any pieces, collabs? I know you mentioned in there, some stuff that you've done in Columbia. So, Letters to Live By, you know, it's 2010. I put this lettering book together, right? I didn't have a name for it. We're sitting there finalizing the book. I hit on my brother for a name; we're trying to figure it out and he's like, bro, I mean, that's all you do, right? I've scribbled on everything, drawn letters on everything as a kid. And he's like, name it Letters to Live By. And that name instantly was born there, right?
It was something that was just initially a label that was going to be used to name the book. You know, little did I realize that it was going to turn into a life changing brand for me, right? That it was going to cross continents, cross boundaries everywhere.
At that point, I hadn't left the United States. I had no idea what was waiting for me in Europe or anywhere else in the world, you know, or the type of movement that it was going to create when it came to bringing authentic Los Angeles letter forms to different continents or something. You know, the waves it was going to cause when people started seeing, you know, what could be done with these letter forms. It was amazing, the experience. And I think it opened up my eyes in a different way.
My business savviness wasn't as good as it is today, right? I just was thinking, you know, at that moment of like, I wanted to put out the best letters and all passionate about it. I didn't realize the ripple effects, but I didn't realize that distributors in other parts of the world were going to buy those books from tattoo supply companies and give it to tattooers in other countries and people were going to see them and people were going to be waiting for me to touch down in their country.
Based on the book that I did, most of it while I was incarcerated, most of the things in there, a lot of them in there were letters that I wrote to my wife or like envelopes that I drew and mailed home and she saved them all. And the initial idea for that book was we saved up all this art. And when I first started tattooing at shops and, you know, like trying to do tattoo expos, which I had never done in my previous, you know, previous years where I was tattooing, it was all, you know, underground shops or whatever.
Now I had this little booklet of all my lettering, which was very common in L.A., right? These letter forms were born in L.A.; They come from here. But when I travel out and come visit Detroit or come visit another city, everyone's blown away with those letters. They're like, oh, shit, man, I want some of this and I want some of this. And right away, there was this explosion of like clientele for me. And I always feel like letters to live by was the catalyst, right? The catalyst that opened up my eyes to want to do more. Not just tattoo. You know, I had this book and it starts selling. It opens up my eyes to want to create a brand, right? They're like, man, you do some dope letters. Like you should have shirts. And, you know, it was all something that came from demand, right? Traveling. And it was all born on the spot from here. Me and my wife said, man, let's do some shirts. Oh, that's God right there. But I'll say. She scared my ass.
The cultural sanctuary part of lettering, not just Letters to Live By, but lettering in general, right? And not only in the tattoo world, I think me reminiscing or thinking about letters even as a kid, I've always been fascinated with penmanship, with calligraphy, with hieroglyphics, with just the ability of letter forms being so attractive, even if you can't read it, right? You look at Arabic writing, Sanskrit. You don't know what it says, but it's amazing, right, that a human can grab a pen and do these ancient writings so perfectly, so, you know, with such discipline.
So, I've been lettering since I was a young kid. I remember as a young boy mimicking the letter forms that were in the alley. I've been grabbing spray cans from the auto parts to trace over the letters that I thought were so perfect. They were like stickers to me. Back then, I had no clue that I would be able to master them, evolve them into my own hybrid styles, and to even play a big role in influencing, I could say, thousands of people to follow some of the letter forms that I do, right? And I think the cultural sanctuary aspect of it, or when you think about how letter forms unify people, it's a proven fact, and I've witnessed it firsthand, that when we created these lettering movements, not just on social media but these art nights and these things, all the prejudices and all that get left at the door. Like, when we're there lettering and we're there doing our thing, everyone's vibing and expressing themselves and putting all these things together.
And you go to these other countries and you're bringing some letter forms from LA to Brazil, and they're blown away by it. But you, as the guy that loves calligraphy and loves penmanship, you're looking at what they
do and the risks that they take to go up to these high-rise buildings and scale down 20 stories with ropes to mark their territories. In LA, we were taking risks because people were territorial, and they'd shoot at you for writing in their neighborhoods, and that was normal to me.
Now, I see a guy scaling a building 20 feet high with ropes to mark it. I'm like, "That dude's nuts." Little did I stop and think, "Wait, I was risking my life just like him from getting shot or something." So, the passion, I think you just get blinded by it. When I was marking up my neighborhoods, I was oblivious to any dangers or anything, and I think a lot of people can relate.
And one of the things I wanted to touch on was when I started doing my seminars and started talking about things that I thought I didn't want to share, that opened up a conversation that people were able to really relate to me and not just see that letter form, which may be intimidating, right? That letter form to a kid that's just learning is like, "Man, I'll never be able to do that style because they're just learning, but they're inspired, but they don't know what question to ask."
You do a seminar, and people in there don't really have an exact formula. One might come because he wants to know what year you started tattooing. One is there for graffiti when it comes to my seminars, but a lot of them want to know my past life. We know these letters come from gang culture.
People start relating to it, and I always tell people, "There's no one ever that's going to be... This is a good point to always make. It never bothers me to give somebody constructive criticism or to take a minute to look at somebody's work because nobody ever starts at the top." I've always been aware of that.
We all get inspired by something, and it takes us a long time to build it. Being a fighter, you have to develop. You have to get punched. You have to get dropped. You develop everything. I think once I start having these conversations about where I came from, all my struggles, and all these things, it starts painting a picture of, "Man, this guy's been doing his art endlessly through hardships, through tattooing, through multiple layers of life."
People start relating to stuff, and people feel like, "Man, I have a connection with this guy because I've experienced it." People start wanting to be part of your movement, and boom, now you're in another country painting with another guy from another country. You start unifying these things. It's created a beautiful movement. I've had this following and this ability to do something I love so much that I used to do for fun and build a full-fledged career off of it. Being able to feed my family, buy my first home, and do multiple things. I'm sitting in the studio, no matter how well I'm doing in life or how successful I may feel like I am, everything is still letters. Everything. This is the sanctuary. This is that unifying factor.
I'm going to finish it with not all the paintings that are hanging in my studio are mine because I love letters so much, and that's what unifies that painting, this painting, that painting, everything. It's all lettering. I feel like that might be the best way to put it into perspective from the way I see things. Letters to Live By, baby. That's the best ⸺ Considering this interview and thinking of where we’re at today with social media, with magazines, what are your thoughts? I never expected to be doing a magazine interview. I thought magazines were kind of phasing out, you know, like a lot of other things, but here I am, you know.
Everything felt right, and it's always about what feels right inside, and I think that's what has gotten us here to sit here today. And for me to be comfortable enough to share and say, you know, no matter where you're at in life, it's always good to still take the time, you know, to face the camera and share your story with people that might be the next you coming up, you know, 10 years from now, 15 years from now, whatever. There are always people, whether you're delivering it through a magazine or social media, that you're inspiring somewhere or another, especially as an artist, man. You know, I know for me it's never been a problem to share with people, have workshops, and do all these things, and I want to continue that.
No matter how successful I may become, whatever that consists of—success—I want to continue on this path and never get blinded by money or anything that could close that door. This is one of the most fulfilling things in my career: being able to go back, sit with a bunch of kids, and share art that I learned or practiced growing up in the neighborhoods. I didn't go to art school; that was later, I took classes. I went and sharpened skills that I developed on my own, sitting in a jail cell, drawing or scribbling letters, or while I was on drugs, doodling away as a pastime.
Whatever, like, there are multiple layers that have built me up, but I think the drive to continuously want to grow and not forget to share it with others is crucial.
Recently, I've tapped into this ability to start doing talks at the juvenile halls, and I'm headed to a prison as well to talk because people there have telephones now, or they can follow you on social media, even if they're doing life in a level four prison.
Some people reached out to me and approved it, and for me, that's a big step because I feel like, as much as I've considered it a big success to tap into galleries and museums and do all these crazy, world-renowned projects, let's not forget about the people who are artists sitting in a jail cell that made a bad choice and they're never coming home. But when they do, they might have that little bit of hope to say, "Man, if this fool can do it, I can do it." Some of those guys know me from back then, and I didn't have the best image as a human being, or I wasn't looked up to in the same aspect that I'm looked up to now. Back then, it was a negative look. People saw me, maybe up here, but in a negative perspective.
Now, I feel like I counter that. There's that yin and the yang aspect in my life where I feel like I always have to go and give back. For me, maybe it's based on where I come from, but I'm glad to have the opportunity to sit here and share this with you guys and to tell everybody, even if you're struggling or doing badly in life, that it goes away. You could push through that and continue doing your art, your music, whatever it is you're doing, and come out on top. ✕
PROOF THAT EVEN STORMS THE STRONGEST
Selected Group Exhibitions
2018 “Ley Lines” - LA ART Show, Los Angeles, CA
2017 “Dark Progressivism” Lancaster Museum of Art History, Lancaster, CA
2017 “Presrciption” Complexcon, Long Beach, CA
2017 “Tattoo Exhibition” Natural History Museum, Los Angeles, CA
2017 “Photos Expo Plus” Chelsea, NY
2016 “Roll Call” LA Louver Gallery, Venice, CA
2016 “Aftermath” Robert Graham Studio, Culver City, CA
2016 “Mojiten” HHH Galery, Tokyo, Japan
2015 “Dark Progressivism: Metropolitan Rising” LA Art Show, Los Angelees, CA
2014 “Scratch” El Segundo Museum of Art, El Segundo, CA
2013 “Alphabet Soup” Boat House Gallery, Los Angeles, CA
Selected Murals, Installations
2019 “Determination” Mural City of Long Beach
2018 “Letter to live by” Mural in Culver City adt district at GRaphaids
2017 “California Dreaming” Los Angeles, CA “LA Art Show
2017 “Legendary York” York, UK
2014 “Free Mind” Breda, Holland
Special Projects
2017 “Unscripted Hotel” Design & Installation, Durham, NC
2017 “Then and Now” Umbro USA, Los Angeles, CA
Speaking Engagements
2018 Panel Discussion, Lancaster Museum of Art History, Lancaster, CA
2017 Demonstration and Lecture for Google, LA Louver Gallery, Venice, CA
2016 Panel Discussion for Fellows of Contemporary Art, Robert Graham Studio, Culver City, CA
Filmography
2015 “Dark Progressivism” Or Rupture and Rebellion” Documentary by Rodrigo Ribera D’ebre and James Yi
2014 “Sign Painters Movie”
Bibliography
2017 De Ebre, Rodrigo “The New Noir” Los Angeles Times: Architecture and Design Magazine 2018 Mural in Culver City art district at Graphaids
Collaborations
Ford Motor Company 2022
Ford Makes Maverick Moves With ComplexCon Debut Featuring Customized Truck, By David “Big Sleeps” Cavazos, Panel Conversations And Giveaway Gaming!
Ford Makes ComplexCon Debut With 2022 Maverick Customized By Big Sleeps
Permanent Collection
“Liber Ambicorum” Book Of Friends - The Getty Research Institute
Los Angeles County Museum of Art
From ESMoA and the Getty Research Institute SCRATCH – A limited edition portfolio
Celebrating the collaborative exhibition includes a print from each artist: Big Sleeps, Prime, Defer, Heaven, Eye One, Cre8, Gajin Fujita, Axis and Fishe with a portrait of each artist by photographer Jim McHugh. Artists’ prints by master printers James Reid and Rachel Robin Reid of Gemini Gel in Los Angeles. Photographic portraits by Jim McHugh printed on INNOVA Art- Baryta paper by Canon USA / Imageprograf Pro-1000. Edition of 55, print size: 12” x 19 1/2”.
Pico Union Memorial Wall, “Names”. (1990 and onward) By @bigsleeps and @tey.
Acknowledgments
This project would not have been possible without the support, guidance, and inspiration of many individuals and organizations.
Special gratitude is extended to design director Deryck Vonn Lee for your unwavering support and for generously extending your time and expertise to help design an amazing piece of work. Your dedication and creativity have left an incredible impact on this project, and I am truly grateful for your contributions.
To Big Sleeps for your time and talent, and to Mrs. Sleeps for your invaluable help in coordinating the event—your efforts were instrumental in bringing this vision to life. To Sage Flores for your coordination of the photo and video shoots, ensuring everything ran smoothly—your hard work is deeply appreciated.
To Victoria Sirakova, whose breathtaking pictures have added unmatched beauty to these pages, and to Denise Medina Makeup for your incredible artistry—thank you for your outstanding contributions.
To the artists, curators, and collaborators who generously contributed their time and talent, your work continues to inspire and amaze. To my friends and family, thank you for your unwavering support and understanding as I navigated this project.
Finally, to the readers, collectors, and enthusiasts of the world of painting, tattoos, and letters, this book is for you. Thank you for keeping the love of art alive.
“YOUR
BE SOMEONE ELSE’S
