14 minute read
Ti Zhou - Joe Cribb Correspondence on Sino Kharosthi Coin
tell me which coins in your books are not your own collection? If possible, could you please also inform me where they are now stored so that I can further get in touch with them.
2. I learn from Professor Dai’s article written in 2015 that
a hoard for Sino Kharosthi Coin was found near Kashgar in 2012, which you also mentioned. I want to know if there are coins in your books coming from this hoard?
3. You mentioned that there is a camel coin in your collection, but you did not attach its picture. Could you please you share it with me?
4. Are the 651 coins listed on the table on page 22 all your collections? I am writing a new article on Sino Kharosthi Coin, which will be published in the collection of papers published in Germany. I hope to express my thanks for your help in the acknowledgment and mention your numismatic collections open to the public.
In May 1984 when I wrote a coin-related article for the first time, I studied numerous coin photos, the number of which was far less than those I am learning now. My new paper aims to update the research conclusion in May 1984 and add new reading materials and subsequent discussions on this issue by Chinese scholars. To research on Sino Kharosthi Coin is exciting and your works have made significant contributions to the research.
I am looking forward to your help.
Dear Mr. Cribb, I’m thrilled to see your email. I admire you a lot because when I researched the Sino Kharosthi Coin
(Hetain Horse Coin) at the very beginning, your article published in the fourth issue of Chinese Numismatics in 1987 was the merely academic material I had access to, which has done me a great favor.
Sino Kharosthi Coin was discovered at Kashgar hoard in 2012 (not sure about the exact location). Due to the increase in the amount of objects, I felt that some varieties were not yet studied by scholars. Therefore, I wrote down my opinions in Xinjiang Numismatics (internal journal for exchange among members of Xinjiang Numismatics Society). As Professor Dai jianbing appreciated what I wrote, he helped collect my writings to publish them. I am just an ordinary person in China. The reason why I am willing to consume time and energy to research Sino kharosthi Coin is that I am born with
passion for the Chinese culture and can recognize the coins minted in Xinjiang (western regions) two thousand years ago.
As I can’t understand English, I will answer your questions and reply you after my friend ’ s translation.
Dear Mr. Zhou,
Thanks for your prompt reply!
I learned Chinese fifty years ago while I can barely understand it now.
I get to understand your email with the help of Google Translate. I read your article published on JEAN, but I haven’ t seen any published articles about Xinjiang coins. Due to the Covid-19 pandemic, all museums and libraries in London have been closed, so I don’ t have access to the latest issues of JEAN and other numismatic magazines. There are many Sino Kharosthi Coins in the British Museum, which may be helpful to you. You can search for information at: https://www.britishmuseum.org/ collection/search?keyword=Sino-Kharoshthi.
Some of the information on the website is inaccurate, but the pictures are clear.
Looking forward to your reply!
Dear Mr. Cribb,
I can now understand the meaning of your emails as my friend has translated them into Chinese. The answers to your questions are as follows:
The pictures shown in the book A New Probe into Sino-Kharosthi (Hetain Horse Coin) written by me and edited by Professor Dai Jianbing are basically my personal collection, with the exception of Pic 2, Pic 3 and Pic 4 on page 63, all of which are a new variety of horse coins with Chinese characters "Zhong Wu Zhu" found in Xinhe County in Aksu Perfecture in recent years. I call them Kutsi Horse Coins, which are provided by my friends who are coin merchants. The pictures of coins, including those on page 78, are taken by myself as illustrations, but I'm not sure if those coins still belong to my friends. The picture of the Camel Coin on page 88 and page 123 is a collection of a museum in Xinjiang’ s Hotan Perfecture. It is unknown who shot this picture and there is no picture of Shanghai Museum in the book.
2. As for the doubted Kashgar hoard found in 2012, we do not know its exact origin yet. There are several versions of its origin. one is found in the reconstruction of the old city of Kashgar, one is found in the construction site, and the other is found by farmers in the suburbs. At first, Kashgar coin merchants thought it was Kushan coin or heihan coin. Because of the
serious corrosion, the coin merchants did not know it, thought it was worthless, and ignored its relevant
important information. Most of my collection comes from this hoard. Unfortunately, it is not clear how it was discovered.
3. I have a camel coin, which is bad-looking, so I haven't shown it. I have been searching for an ideal camel coin whose third of Kharo hī must be clear, and I haven’t it yet.
4. The 651 horse coins in the table on page 22 are all my collections. I can also tell you that these coins are collected in recent 3 years. I am going to work with Professor Dai to publish a catalog of a collection of Sino Kharosthi Coins.
Congratulations on the publication of your papers in Germany! It is indeed exciting to explore Hetain Horse Coin. For more than a century, it has always been an eternal topic for researchers to be obsessed with. From the Chinese point of view, the Coin is the first bilingual coin in the history of Chinese coins, the first coin to be counted and weighed, and the first coin built in Xinjiang (Western Regions). Therefore, its historical and cultural value exceeds the value of itself. If you need any picture of horse coins to be used in your new collection of papers, just feel free to email me.
In addition, I’ d like to ask you whether the British Museum you work for has any Khartoum seal found in Xinjiang or India. If so, could you please provide me with some related information?
Dear Mr. Zhou,
Thank you very much for your reply, as well as for providing me with the information about the coins you collect and those beyond your collection while inserted in your book.
I’ m glad that the communication between us can be open to the public, but I hope to read the manuscript before its publication because some terms are difficult to translate, especially some technical terms and people’ s names. Every time I translated your Email with Google Translate, I was amused by some strange translations. For example, my name Cribb was translated as 克萊伯 , 克利珀 , 克裏希 , and 爬蟲 (literally meaning reptile) in Chinese. I’ m trying to learn Kharoshi now. I wonder if you can share with me the Fig. 2 on page 78 and page 62, and Fig. 2, 3 and 4 on page 63 (attached with Fig. 2-5 provided by Ti Zhou), because these coins have enabled me to arouse some thoughtful ideas. I know these coins are not your collection, but I hope you have photos of them. Once I
Fig. 2 Page 62 of A New Probe into Sino-Kharosthi (Hetain Horse Coin): Kutsi Horse Coin weighing Wu Zhu collected by Ti Zhou
Fig. 3 Page 63 of A New Probe into Sino-Kharosthi (Hetain Horse Coin): Kutsi Horse Coin weighing Wu Zhu collected by Asalan Fig. 5 Page 63 of A New Probe into Sino-Kharosthi (Hetain Horse Coin): Kutsi Horse Coin - Wu Zhu ( 五铢 ) cash coin
Fig. 4 Page 63 of A New Probe into Sino-Kharosthi (Hetain Horse Coin): Kutsi Horse Coin weighing Wu Zhu, downloaded on the Internet make some progress in this respect, I will share the results with you. I have been studying the inscriptions on Kharoshi coins since the 1970s, so I can provide some insights for the study of these coins. Meanwhile, I am also communicating with experts who can understand Gandhari to seek for their help as Gandhari is a representative branch of Khartoum.
In addition, the Wu Zhu cash coin (No.1) on page 48 of
Fig. 6 Er Zhu ( 二铢 ) cash coin discovered by Mr. Cribb at an auction house in the US
your book and the two coins on page 93 are helpful for my upcoming publication. These three coins are all new editions which enlighten me. I see a Er Zhu Coin in an auction house in the United States, which is the same category as the Wu Zhu Coin. There is no doubt that the coin is genuine (read the attachment for the photo). The Chinese character "Er" on the surface of the coin is
upside down and weighs 1.25g, which helps recognize it as the Er Zhu Coin (Fig. 6). By the way, I have seen other coins engraved with Er Zhu, but they are all fakes.
As for the Camel Coin in your book, I mistook it coming from Shanghai Museum as I found this picture on the website of Shanghai Museum, but I didn't notice that it was from Hetian Museum Thank you for your correction!
I retired from the British Museum ten years ago. There are many Kharoshi seals in the collection of the British Museum. You can see the relevant collections on the
website https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/ search ？ keyword=kharoshti&keyword=seal.
Besides, there are some other collections which haven’ t posted online yet. The website is: https:// www.britishmuseum.org/collection/search ？ ke yword=Callieri&view=grid&sort=object_uname_ uuasc&page=1#page top
The seals, from northwest India, are produced by Callieri. Relevant information has been posted on the website, but there are no photos. All the Xinjiang seals in Stein's collection are kept in the British Museum, but none of them are inscribed in kharoshi. In addition, some of Stan's collections can be found on the British Library's website, including all his wooden documents. The website is https://www.bl.uk/ collection-guides/stein-collection.
Most of the seals he has collected are included in
these documents, which are also stored in the British Library.
I really appreciate your help. The table on page 22 of your book shows the probable relationship between the number of different types of coins and their average weight, which matches the relationship between the number of different types of coins in the British Museum and their average weight. However, because the coins in the British Museum are more
often than not excavated separately, the degree of corrosion is higher and the weight is lower while your coins, coming from the same hoard, suffer less erosion.
Many of my articles can be downloaded at: https:// britishmuseum.academic.edu/JoeCribb
There is the original English version of my abbreviated articles on the website, which was translated by Yao Shuomin ( 姚 朔 民 ) in 1987. His translation abbreviated the original text.
I wish you all the best in your research.
中英兩位錢幣專家關於 漢佉二體錢的詢複
袁水清 〔西安〕
漢佉二體錢（和田馬錢）在國際錢幣領域是一個複雜但又獨 具魅力的錢幣。錢幣專家周倜著的《漢佉二體錢（和田馬錢） 新探》（圖1）介紹了最新研究成果；2020年3月《東亞泉志》 第18期又發表了周倜《如何識別漢佉二體錢（和田馬錢）》一 文。前大英博物館硬幣和獎章部門負責人喬·克力勃閱知後， 於2020年5月25-28日，先後發郵件3次，向周倜先生就有關 問題進行了諮詢，周先生及時作了回復。二位錢幣專家治學 嚴謹，研究深入。征得同意，今將詢複郵件公諸於世，以 啟迪同道。
圖 1 周倜著 《 漢佉二體錢 （ 和田馬錢 ） 新探 》 封面
克力勃先生的第一封郵件 2020.5.25 19:45
周倜先生，您好！
戴建兵將您的電子郵箱地址給了我，希望您不要介意我通過 這種方式聯繫您。
我對您的漢佉二體錢方面的著作非常感興趣， 很高興能夠從 中瞭解到這麼多新的內容。 但我對其中的一些內容有些不解， 知道這些問題的答案能夠幫助我更好地理解您書中的內容。 我在大約50年前學習過中文， 但是沒有很多機會去運用， 因 此我的中文閱讀能力有限，對一些內容不是很能理解。
以下是我的一些問題 ： 1. 您書中的一些錢幣似乎並不是自己的收藏（ 比如現存於上 海博物館的駱駝錢）。 您能告訴我， 書中還有哪些錢幣不是 您自己的收藏嗎？如果可以的話， 也請一併告知我它們現在 存放於何地？以便我能進一部聯繫。
2. 您提到的2012年在喀什附近發現的漢佉二體錢窖藏， 我 也從戴教授2015年的文章中瞭解到了這件事。 我想知道您書 中是否有錢幣來自這一窖藏？
3. 您提到自己的收藏中有一枚駱駝錢， 但沒有附上它的圖片。 請問是否能分享一下？
4. 第22頁的表格共列出了651枚錢幣，這些都是您的收藏嗎？
我現在正在寫一篇關於二體錢的新文章， 該文章將在德國出 版的論文集中發表，希望能在致謝部分對您的幫助表示感謝， 並提及您已公開的錢幣收藏。
1984年5月，我第一次撰寫錢幣相關文章，當時我研究了很多 錢幣照片， 而現在我研究的照片數量已遠超那時。 我的新論 文旨在更新1984年5月時的研究結果， 並加入新的閱讀材料 以及之後中國學者對這個問題的相關討論。二體錢是一個令 人興奮的錢幣論文主題，而您的著作為之作出了重大貢獻。
希望您能為我提供幫助。
周倜先生的第一次回復 2020.5.25 22:17
尊敬的克力勃先生 ：您好！
非常高興看到您的郵件，因為在我最初探討漢佉二體錢（和 田馬錢） 時， 您發表在《 中國錢幣》1987年第四期文章是 我所接觸到的唯一學術資料， 對我幫助極大， 可以說您是 我的崇拜者。
漢佉二體錢在2012年發現了喀什窖藏（ 不能確定準確地 點）， 由於實物量的增多， 感覺有一部分種類和品種是以 往學者沒有研究和涉及的， 因此將自己的一些認識發表在 《 新疆錢幣》（ 新疆錢幣學會會員內部交流刊物）， 承蒙戴 建兵教授的賞識，將已發表的文稿結集出版。
我的身份用中國話叫作一名地地道道的草根， 或者說是普 通的老百姓。 只是對中國文化有着天然的喜愛， 因為我們 能看懂兩千年前在新疆（ 西域） 鑄造的錢幣， 所以願意花 時間和精力從事關於這種錢幣的探討。
您所提的問題，我不懂英文，待朋友準確翻譯以後回復您。
克力勃先生的第二封郵件 2020.5.25 22:52
周倜先生，您好！
感謝您的及時回復，很高興收到您的回信。
五十年前，我學習了中文，但大部分都忘了 !
我在穀歌翻譯的幫助下理解了您的郵件內容， 並期待收 到您的下一封郵件。我在《東亞泉志》上看到了您的文章， 但還沒看到您發表任何關於新疆錢幣的文章。 受新冠病 毒影響， 倫敦關閉了所有的博物館和圖書館， 所以我無 法查閱這本雜誌和其他雜誌的最新期刊。
大英博物中有許多漢佉二體錢， 可能會對您有所幫助， 線上查看網址 ：https://www.britishmuseum.org/ collection/search?keyword=Sino-Kharoshthi。
網站上有些資訊並不正確，但圖片很清晰。
期待您的回信。
周倜先生的第二次回复 2020.5.26 23:24
尊敬的克力勃先生，您好！
我的朋友將您的郵件準確地翻譯成中文， 已經能夠明白您 的意思，現將您的問題回答如下 ：
1. 由我著作、戴建兵教授主編的《漢佉二體錢（和田馬錢） 新探 》 一書中， 所示圖例基本是我個人收藏的， 例外是 P63頁圖2、 圖3、 圖4所展示的是近年來在阿克蘇地區新 和縣發現的漢字書寫的“重五銖”新品種馬錢，我稱之“龜 茲馬錢”， 分別是我的幣商朋友提供， 由我自己拍照作為插 圖， 實物可靠， 但我不能確定是否還在朋友手中， 你明白 我的意思。P78頁的也是朋友的。P88和 P123頁是一張“駱 駝錢” 圖片， 是新疆和田地區博物館的館藏品， 此圖由何 人拍攝不得而知，書中沒有上海博物館的圖片。
2. 關於2012年發現的疑似喀什窖藏， 我們至今不知道它 的確切出處。有幾種傳說版本，一種是喀什老城改造發現 的， 一種是建築工地發現的， 還有一種是郊區農民種地 發現的。 起初喀什幣商以為是貴霜錢幣或是黑汗錢幣， 因 為銹蝕嚴重， 幣商們不認識， 認為不值錢， 忽略其相關的 重要資訊。 我的藏品絕大多數來自這批窖藏， 遺憾的是至 今不清楚它是怎樣發現的。
3. 我有一枚駱駝錢幣， 品相不好， 所以沒有展示過。 我一直 在尋找一枚理想中的駱駝錢幣，它的佉盧文第三個王號必須 清晰，目前仍然在尋找中。
4.P22頁表格中651枚馬錢全是我的藏品， 還可以告訴您這 是三年的數量，我準備聯合戴教授的力量，出一本漢佉二體 錢圖錄集。
在此恭喜您在德國的論文集出版。 和田馬錢真的是一個令 人興奮的主題， 一百多年來， 讓探討者始終保持着熱烈的 癡迷的永恆課題。 從中國人的角度來看， 它是中華錢幣史上 第一枚雙語錢幣， 第一枚倍數互換的計數計重錢幣， 第一 枚新疆（ 西域） 鑄造的錢幣， 因而它的歷史價值和文化價值 超過了錢幣本身的價值。 在您新的論文集中， 若需要馬錢的 圖片，您儘管開口，我將積極地配合您。祝您好運！
另外討教您一個題外話題， 您所供職大英博物館， 是否有 新疆發現的佉盧文印章或是印度發現的佉盧文印章，若有能 否給予我這方面的資料。
克力勃先生的第三封郵件 2020.5.28 22:17
周倜先生，您好！
非常感謝您的來信， 同時也謝謝您提供的關於自己收藏硬幣 的資訊，以及那些刊載於您書中但不是您所收藏的硬幣的資
訊。
我很高興在我們之間的通訊能夠公之於眾， 但我希望在公 佈前先看一下文字稿， 因為有些術語是很難翻譯的， 尤其是 一些技術術語和人名，每次我用穀歌翻譯您的來信時都會被 一些奇怪的翻譯逗樂， 比如我的名字克力勃被翻譯成了克萊 伯、克利珀、克裏希納，甚至是“爬蟲”等等。
我現在正在努力學習佉盧文， 不知道您是否可以和我分享一 下書上第78頁和第62頁圖1和第63頁的圖2、3、4上的硬幣照 片（附周倜提供的圖片附圖2-5），因為這些硬幣讓我產生了一 些有趣的新見解。 我知道這些硬幣不是您的收藏， 但希望您 有相關硬幣的照片。 一旦我在相關方面取得進展， 將與您分 享成果。 我從20世紀70年代就開始研究佉盧文硬幣上的銘
图 2 著作第 62 页图 1 ， 重五铢·龟兹马钱 ， 周倜藏 图 3 著作第 63 页图 2 ， 重五铢·龟兹马钱 ， Asalan 藏
图 4 著作第 63 页图 3 ， 重五铢·龟兹马钱 ， 网上下载 著作第 63 页 图 4 重五铢·龟兹马钱 西域鬼刀藏
图 6 克力勃先生 在美国的一家拍卖行看到的一枚二铢钱
文， 能為這些錢幣相關的研究提供一些見解。 同時， 我也在 與犍陀羅語的專家們通信， 犍陀羅語是佉盧文中具有代表性 的一支，因此我也在尋求他們的幫助。
此外， 您書中第48頁的五銖錢（1號） 及你在93頁上的兩枚 硬幣頁為我即將出版的內容非常有幫助。 這三枚硬幣都是新 的版別， 非常有趣， 讓我產生了一些新的觀點。 我在美國的 一家拍賣行也看到了一枚二銖錢， 與五銖錢來自同一類別， 這枚幣毫無疑問是真品（ 照片見附件）。 上面的漢字“ 二 ” 上 下顛倒，重1.25克，可以判定是二銖錢（見圖6）。（我見過其
他刻着二銖的錢幣，但都是贗品。）
至於您書中的駱駝幣，因為我是在上海博物館的網站上找 到了這張照片， 但沒注意到上面說是出自和田博物館， 所 以我誤以為是來自上海博物館。感謝您的指正。
我十年前從大英博物館退休。 大英博物館的藏品中有許多 佉盧文印章。您可以在相關網站上看到相關藏品，網址是 ： https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/search ？ keyword=kharoshti&keyword=seal。
此外， 還有一些其他的藏品， 但還沒有上線， 網址是 ： https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/search ？ keyword=Callieri&view=grid&sort=object_uname_ uuasc&page=1#page top。
這些印章來自印度西北部， 是由卡利裏（Callieri） 出品， 資訊已經被放在網站上， 但沒有照片。 斯坦因（Stein） 收 藏的新疆印章都藏在大英博物館， 但沒有一枚刻有佉盧 文。此外還有斯坦的部分收藏可以在大英圖書館的網站上 找到，包括他收藏的所有木製檔，網址是 ：https://www. bl.uk/collection-guides/stein-collection。
他收藏中的大部分印章章面都包括在了這些檔上， 而這些 印章也存放在大英圖書館內。
我非常感謝您的幫助。 您書中第22頁的表格展示出了不同 錢幣類別的數量與其平均重量之間的大概關係， 這本身就 是一個非常重要的貢獻。 而您收藏的不同錢幣類別的數量 與其平均重量之間所顯示出的關係， 與大英博物館中不同 錢幣類別的數量與其平均重量之間所顯示出的關係非常對 應， 但因為大英博物館所藏錢幣通常是單獨挖掘出來的， 因此腐蝕程度更高， 重量也就較低， 而您的硬幣出自一個 窖藏，受到的腐蝕較少。
我的許多文章都可以在以下網站下載 ：https:// britishmuseum.academic.edu/JoeCribb。
上面有我縮寫文章的英文原版， 曾在1987年由姚朔民進行 翻譯。他的譯文對原文進行了縮寫。
祝您的研究一切順利。
The Chinese Machine-Struck Patterns by Otto Beh GmbH
Champion Auction
A Numismatic Mystery
In June 1944, the magazine Ch’uan Pi(《泉幣》) in Shanghai revealed the Heilungkiang half-dollar silver pattern collected by famous collector Dai Baoting ( 戴葆庭 ) for the first time.
Forty years later, a Sinkiang SUNGAREI one-dollar silver pattern was obtained by Haru Chang ( 張秀青 ) for USD 40,000 at a Hong Kong auction in 1984, breaking the Chinese coin auction records held by a Hunan silver coin and a Shaanxi silver coin at that time. A few years later, the value of the Sinkiang pattern roared to the top, ranking first among Chinese coins. This was the second known Sinkiang pattern. The first such pattern appeared in the 1930s and was purchased by Eduard Kann, one of the greatest collectors of Chinese silver coins. The Kann Collection was purchased by Irving Goodman in 1971. In 1991, the Taiwan collector Liu Gaizao ( 劉改造 ) went to California for the Goodman Collection Auction and commissioned Chen Jimao ( 陳吉茂 ) to bid. In 2005, Liu sold the Sinkiang pattern to Chen.
Years later, five patterns appeared bearing the same dragon design on the reverse and produced by dies with the same coin presses as the Heilungkiang dollar and Sinkiang dollar mentioned above.These five pattern coins were: 1897 Chekiang dollar; 1897 Anhwei dollar; 1897 Fengtien dollar; and undated Fengtien dollars (include both TENG-TIEN and FENG-TIEN varieties). As the prices of the above five rare patterns were astonishingly high, their origin became an important subject of numismatic study. However, researchers failed to find any
The silver-plated copper pattern of Anhwei one-dollar silver coin, produced by dies engraved by Otto Beh, from the 211th Künker Auction in 2012, Lot No. 2529, estimated price 5,000 Euros, realizing 166,750 Euros. The copper pattern of Heilungkiang 20-cent silver coin, produced by dies engraved by Otto Beh, from the 2014 249th Künker Auction, Lot No. 460, estimated price 5,000 Euros, realizing 86,250 Euros.
records about the origin of these patterns. Thus, the source of the five rarest Chinese machine-struck silver patterns remained a mystery.
The mystery was solved when the dies and Chinese-character punches appeared at a Künker Auction (Germany) in June 2012, and the origin of these patterns was recognized as a major discovery in Chinese numismatics. However, the discovery did not come as a complete surprise because there had beenspeculation that these rarities were made in Germany.
The Otto Beh Chinese machine-struck patterns are even rarer than those from the Heaton Mint (Birmingham, England), which first appeared on the market as early as 1975. We believe that the Otto Beh patterns will become one of the criteria for collecting Chinese machine-struck coins, just like the Heaton patterns.
Speculation on the Origin of the Rare Specimens
Heilungkiang Patterns
Although Heilungkiang is a remote area, one-dollar and halfdollar silver patterns were creted bearing the province’s name (however, no Heilungkiang coins are known of smaller denominations).
Because a German mint supplied coining dies to other Chinese mints, some people speculated that the Heilungkiang silver patterns were trial strikes made by a German mint.
