25 minute read
Speaking Truth to Power: A Discussion with Dov Hikind
Assemblyman Hikind, your wife, Shani, told me that you met in the JDL office in 1973.
That’s true. I had just come back from Russia, where I went there to protest for Soviet Jewry. I was involved in the JDL [Jewish Defense League]. Back then, I was out on the streets doing what no one today ever does, because when you believe, when you’re fighting for something, you do whatever you have to do.
With Benjamin Netanyahu and Ehud Olmert
You’re a nice Jewish boy from Williamsburg. How did you get involved in the JDL?
I was in Torah Vodaas at the time. And I began to read in the newspapers about Soviet Jewry. I wondered: What is that all about? No one in yeshiva ever spoke about it. There were 3 million Jews being spiritually annihilated in the Soviet Union. Why was no one in an uproar about that?
It still really bothers me to this day. Back then, we would demonstrate against autopsies. The yeshiva would close down, and everyone would join those protests. But I used to think about the 3 million Jews in the Soviet Union who couldn’t practice their Judaism and couldn’t leave.
I saw what the JDL was doing. They were doing things that rock the boat – things that Jews don’t usually do.
One night, there was an all-night vigil outside the federal courthouse in Brooklyn, because the next day, a Friday, Rabbi Meir Kahane was going to be sentenced for violating parole. I remember I was out on a date that night. I took the young lady back to the Bronx after the date, and I came back to this all-night vigil and stayed there the whole night so I could get into court the next day.
What happened in the court that Friday really influenced me. When Rabbi Kahane appeared in front of the judge, Judge Jack Weinstein, who was always a mensch, I expected him to be repentant. Usually, if you appear in front of a judge about to be sentenced, you say chatasi, you say, “Look, I made a mistake.” But Rabbi Kahane did just the opposite. He told the judge – I’ll never forget this – “One day, all of us, including yourself, will have to face the Judge of judges.” And he basically said that he had no regrets doing what he did.
I was one of the few people who got into the court that day and I heard what he had to say. It blew me away.
I was also influenced by my parents being survivors of the Holocaust. My mother went to Auschwitz in 1944 with her mother and other members of the family; they went straight to the gas chamber. My father was in forced labor camps. And in the beginning, my parents really never spoke about it, but the Holocaust and what they went through was part of my DNA.
Rabbi Kahane would say that we’re supposed to care for each other, right? The words are very nice, but if you don’t do anything, it’s all dishonest. So I got involved – and I mean, day and night I was involved. I lived Soviet Jewry. I literally lived outside the Soviet Mission on East 67th Street. I chained myself to the Soviet Mission with 10 other people and got arrested for a Jewish cause. Whoever heard of such a thing?
I used to say that Hashem can only be proud if Jews are getting arrested fighting for their people.
I even got arrested in Ottawa at the Russian embassy there. We went to Toronto first to speak there and spent Shabbos there. We didn’t even know anybody. We just met people on the street. They invited us for Shabbos. After Shabbos, five of us went to the Soviet Embassy in Ottawa, the capital of Canada, and we got
arrested. I went inside with somebody. Two other people chained themselves outside the embassy, and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police arrested us. All this was done for one purpose: to bring attention to Soviet Jewry. Let my people go.
I started learning karate and using nunchucks. The biggest problem is fear. If you get rid of the fear, you can do anything, but if you’re afraid, you do nothing.
What did you need to learn karate for?
I was involved in fighting for Jewish poor. This was one of the issues in those days. All the money from the federal government was going to everyone but poor Jews. And there was an image that Jews were all rich, right? There was a lot of antisemitism in those days, but JDL stood up. JDL didn’t run from the antisemites.
With Holocaust survivors at a Chanukah event with President Trump at the White House
Now, these days, how often do we watch these videos that come out and you see four guys standing, watching another Jew getting smacked in the face and no one is doing anything? That’s not a mitzvah.
I know we’re in golus. But there is something wrong with Jews not defending themselves. Then we get a reputation the Jews are easy targets. Remember, the antisemites come into Jewish communities. These incidents aren’t taking place when a Chassidic man in walking into another neighborhood and getting attacked. They’re happening in Boro Park, Crown Heights, Williamsburg. The perpetrators are not afraid. And also, of course, there are no consequences, but that’s another story.
So you’re suggesting we should fight back against these perpetrators.
Look, I know what it takes. It takes someone to say the kind of things that need to be said. We need to stand up. We need to fight back. I do a lot of radio shows – Sid Rosenberg on ABC and Joe Piscopo. Literally, I’ve done Sid Roseberg every week for the last four weeks. And I say the things I’m telling you. On Sid Rosenberg, I said, “Jews have to start learning how to defend themselves the way we did in the old days.”
How did you keep up the drive to be involved with Soviet Jewry when you almost didn’t see anything coming out of those efforts?
It’s so interesting what you’re asking because people used to say in those days to people like me – I was, what, 19, 20 years old – “You really think you’re going to make a difference? I mean, you’re talking about Soviet Union, the USSR, the United Soviet Socialist Republic. You think you can make a difference?” But one of the things Rabbi Kahane used to say, and it’s something I have never stopped saying to this day to people out there because very often people will do nothing because they can’t see how it’s going to make a difference… The answer to that is that that’s not the Jewish way of thinking. We have a responsibility to do our acharyus. We have a responsibility to do our part, whatever that is, for each person in their own way. Maybe I can do more, maybe you can do less, but everybody can do something. Doing nothing is not an
80 option. Rabbi Kahane used to say that our responsibility is to do The Jewish Home | JANUARY 12, 2023 our part. The rest is in the hands of the Ribbono Shel Olam. The truth is, because of what JDL did – we used to go to Soviet cultural events and disrupt them because how could people enjoy these events when Soviet Jews were suffering – establishment groups were forced to do things for Soviet Jewry. They would organize annual marches in Washington and that was because they felt pressure because the JDL was raising awareness for Soviet Jewry. In 1973, Alexei Kosygin, the prime minister of Russia, was coming to meet with President Nixon. I’m always looking for that extra thing that I can do. And I said to myself, “What can I do that’s a little more than what I’ve been doing?” I raised the money, and seven of us, one young lady and a bunch of other people, we said that we’re going to Russia. We worked with an organization, Al Tidom, that was involved in bringing siddurim, tefillin into the Soviet Union. When we got on the plane to go to Russia, the seven of us sat in seven different locations on the plane so no one would know that we were together. We figured the KGB would never know that we were together. We wanted to go to Moscow and protests at Lenin’s Tomb. We took along pillowcases. Why? Because we wanted to make signs. How do you make a sign? You can’t take a paper with you. So we took these white pillowcases and figured that we would just cut them open and we would write “Free Soviet Jewry” on them. That was our goal. We had a plan to do the “extra.” We didn’t think of how dangerous it may be. When we got to Moscow – I’ll never forget – it was the only time in my life I was in Moscow. But I didn’t get too far because the KGB arrested us at the airport. How they knew about us, I don’t know. But they literally separated us and took us to what was called a detention hotel.
Were you frightened?
From what I remember, it’s a very long time ago, 1973… Was I frightened? I don’t think I was frightened.
My parents had no idea where I was going. My mother always used to say to me when I was involved in different things, “Far vus di, Why you? Let someone else do it.” But I would say, “Ma, you went through what you went through, and I have to do whatever I can for other people.” But for her, it was very difficult. I mean, the FBI, when I was not around, once came to the house. It terrified my parents.
What I was doing at the time was non-stop. It wasn’t like, “OK, I’ll see you in six months, we’ll demonstrate again.” It was constant.
Speaking out for the community
How did your involvement in the JDL lead to you running for office?
I ran in 1977 and then I lost, but I was elected in 1982.
When Shani and I met, we never, ever discussed running for office. By the way, my field – my BA, my MA, I studied a lot towards my Ph.D. at the City University – is all in political science.
I never thought about running for office. But someone came to me in those days and said to me the following, “Dov, if you run for office, you’ll be able to continue doing the things that you care about as an elected official.”
“We took these white
And I can tell you that, baruch Hashem, I think that in my career, I’m proudest of that, to this day, people know that if you came to us, we would do everything in the world to help you beyond the call of duty. That was our motto. The people that I hired knew that it wasn’t just going through the motions. You had to do everything possible to help.
I’m also very proud of always being there to speak out and stand up. I was a Democrat, but it meant nothing to me, and it doesn’t mean anything to me today – nor does being a Republican mean anything to me. I follow my heart. How can I be a loyal Democrat? I used to think of Franklin Roosevelt and what a disaster he was for the Jewish people – and he was the ultimate Democrat in the 20th century. We have a lot more in common with Republicans nowadays.
I ran 18 times in 36 years, every two years. I used to get the Republican line very often – the Democratic line, Republican line, and Conservative line. I used to get more votes on the Republican line than the Democratic line.
When I was in politics, I was involved in so many things. Israel, Gush Katif, fighting antisemitism, standing up.
You were the only frum Jew in the Assembly, no?
Shelly Silver was also a frum Jew. Put it this way, I was the only one who wore a yarmulke, that’s for sure. And I didn’t do it because I was more religious than any other person. I always believed that I don’t take off my yarmulke for anybody. I’m a proud Jew. Anywhere in the world Shani and I go, I don’t wear a cap. I wear a yarmulke. And we travel a lot. I don’t let the antisemites be victorious by catering to the antisemite.
I supported Republicans often, which in politics is probably the worst sin you could commit. With Rudy Giuliani, I was literally the only Democratic elected official that supported him back in 1988 when he ran against David Dinkins and lost, and then he won four years later. I used to do the opening act for him to a lot of Jewish audiences as a Democrat. And then with Al D’Amato as well. I was there for him in 1991 when he won – they didn’t have the results till 12:30 at night, and I was on stage with him. The only other person was his mother. He ran against was Bob Abrams, who was the attorney general at the time. But that was the period after the Crown Heights Riots when Jews were beaten up. I used to say to anyone who wanted support: “Where were you during the Crown Heights Riots?” I said this to Attorney General Bob Abrams, whose kids went to yeshiva, and he was running against Al D’Amato. I said, “Where were you when Jewish blood was being spilled?” I got no answer. I supported Al D’Amato. The following year, I supported Giuliani. And the following year, Pataki. And I asked Cuomo, “Where were you? You were the governor. What did you do?” And of course, I knew what he did. Nothing.
82 changed so much so drastically in those 36 years. What are your reflections on that? In Albany, things have changed dramatically in the The Jewish Home | JANUARY 12, 2023 last four years because when I left Albany, the Republicans controlled the Senate. With all this sickness of radical progressive policies, the Assembly would vote for it because the Assembly was very liberal, Shelly Silver was very liberal, but the Senate was Republican, so they would always stop it. But now, both the Assembly and the Senate are overwhelmingly Democrat. Bail reform, which is a disaster for the people of the State of New York and for the Jewish community, is because of this radical progressive legislature, even though most people are not that progressive. But everybody’s afraid of them. They run the show.
Is there any way you think that New York is going to swing back?
I don’t think so, but there may be one last hope, and that’s the presidential race in 2024.
You supported Trump?
Only the second time around. I had a problem with Trump the first time. I didn’t support Hillary, either. I voted for Ryan.
I came up with a video saying that I’m voting just because I could not vote for Trump because of his behavior, the way he treated people, insulting people, denigrating people, I just couldn’t deal with it. I said to myself, “Is it OK to support someone like that?”
During his four years in office, he was the best president ever for Israel, no question about it. So, I supported him when he ran again. In fact, there’s a video you can find where his son, Don Jr., said it was the best video that anyone did for his father because I was honest. I said I had problems with him, his behavior, but he’s been a great friend, so I supported him. But all that has changed now completely. I don’t support him now.
Speaking on the floor of the Assembly
You believe that 2024 may swing things around in New York.
I recently spoke to Christine Pushaw, one of the top aides to Ron DeSantis. I told her that I think De Santis could actually win New York in 2024. Zeldin lost by just five points, but he helped the Republicans become the majority because Republicans won four seats that could have gone to the Democrats only because of Zeldin. If someone like DeSantis was the candidate of the Republican Party, it could have a ripple effect big time, I believe.
Other than that, I don’t see any hope. Antisemitism in the last few years is really on the rise in the state. If you go back to four years ago, that’s when things suddenly started happening. acts of hate in New York are being perpetrated by minorities. We did a study and noticed that 70% of all hate crimes are perpetrated by people who are black, not white supremacists. De Blasio always used to talk about white supremacists in New York. It’s almost unheard of that you hear white supremacists indulging in hate towards Jews here in New York. Other parts of the country, it’s another story, but it’s mainly blacks here. No one wants to talk about it. No one wants to face it.
But things have gotten out of control. It’s an avalanche of hate, and where’s it leading to? What’s going to be? Nobody knows.
What’s going on with Kanye West and Kyrie Irving and on and on and on, this hate being spread. These people have tens of millions of followers. And if you
look on social media, basically most people agree with them because what these people are talking about, the white supremacists and these black individuals who are preaching all this hate now, they have one thing in common: it’s their hate for Jews. It’s literally all the same tropes – Jewish power, Jewish control of banks, of the media… Both sides are saying the same things. David Duke and Louis Farrakhan could really get along very, very well because they talk about the same thing: the Jews have the power, the control. We’re the communists. We’re the capitalists. We’re everything. You didn’t get the job, it’s because of the Jews, you know that, right? Whatever went wrong, your landlord, he happens to be Jewish, it’s the Jewish people. It’s not your landlord who happens to be Jewish, right? It’s out of control. It really is. need to talk about, first, is Jews learning how to defend themselves. We have a reputation that you can walk all over us and nothing is going to happen. That’s not a good thing. It’s time for tough Jews. It’s time for Jews to learn how to defend themselves through karate and other means. But I don’t see anyone out there today that can lead this charge. I, at least, talk about it. I, at least, talk about where the hate is coming from, but no one else is.
There was just a conference at the White House recently, but it was a total joke. It’s a total joke because they themselves, the Democrats, they have a problem with Tlaib and Omar and AOC and Cori Bush and on and on, who are supporters of BDS, which is an antisemitic movement. They talk about antisemitism. But they are part of the problem in the Democratic Party. And now you have the Republican Party with a guy like Trump inviting Kanye West after he said terrible, terrible things against Jews. This is a guy who’s supposedly our friend inviting an antisemite to have dinner with him. What kind of ridiculous craziness is that?
Trump says – whether I believe him or not – that he didn’t know who this guy was. The guy’s sitting at the table; Trump still has Secret Service protection. He has staff. Nobody checked? And how come he didn’t say anything afterwards? How come he kept silent after he had the dinner?
This is scary stuff. I think Trump is more dangerous now than Tlaib, Omar, the whole group put together.
Really?
Yes. Because he was a former president. And because he has an unbelievable following in the country. Donald Trump, with his silence, is legitimizing these people, and that becomes especially dangerous.
Yes, Trump was good to the Jews, but now we have to stand up and speak out against this.
We did a report recently which got some national coverage. We looked at three years of antisemitic acts and what happened to the perpetrators. We came up with the fact that nothing happened. There were almost no consequences for people attacking Jews.
So that’s something that we can petition our elected officials about and show them that bail reform is not going to work. At least under bail reform, certain acts should not be included. Why can hate crimes not be included?
We recently published this book, “A Brief and Visual History of Antisemitism.” It’s such a beautifully put-together book and so easy to read. But the reason why it’s so important to read this book – and I’m hoping that many local schools will use it as part of their curriculum – is because our kids need to know the facts. They don’t know our history, our basic history. There are so many problems on college campuses. I shudder to think about the average Jewish student confronting some Palestinian or some Jew who is radical-left and being able to deal with the facts. By the way, we have the facts on our side. The history, the facts of what happened in the 20th century with the Arabs, the Palestinians, the facts are there. How did the word Palestine even come about? It was called Judea. We know it goes back to the Romans changing
the name, etc.
Educating our people is so important. Our kids are smart. They’re very smart. They become doctors and lawyers and they’re very successful, but it’s about the Jewish people. They need to know their history. It’s an amazing history and a very sad history on many, many levels.
Which makes it so hard to read about.
Yes, nothing has changed. Everything they said about Jews 1,000 years ago, 500 years ago, 200 years ago, it’s the same thing right now. It’s mamish the same words. Jews are clannish because you won’t let your daughter date my son. I’m not Jewish, but you think you’re better than me. Could you come for dinner? You can’t, right?
Remember, we can also do better. We should have better relationships with our neighbors. We’re supposed to be an example to the world, right? And especially if you’re wearing a yarmulke. Especially if you’re identifiably Jewish.
At the same time, I recently re-read one of Rabbi Kahane’s books about the pride in being Jew. We need to be proud that we’re Jewish, that we’re part of this amazing club.
Let me tell you why. And we could talk about all the difficulty we had in the past, but the fact that we Jews are still here today doesn’t make sense.
It’s a miracle.
If you study your history, it makes no sense for us to still be here. And not only are we here, but baruch Hashem, we have a State of Israel. And yes, I mean, it’s crazy what goes on there, but look at that country. The whole world wants to be friends with Israel. The technology, the brain power… This is the Jewish people.
What’s special about the Jewish people? It’s one thing. What makes us successful? One thing. We’re not better than anyone else. It’s called education.
Is that it? Really?
That’s it? No, but we push our kids to succeed. This is our success. We’re not smarter than anyone else. But when your emphasis is education, education, education, you’ll be successful. When they’re little kids, they’re studying aleph-bais. Where else do you have something like this? That’s the secret. You could do the same thing, but you need parents, and you need a background and a foundation, right? You go into a Jewish home, who does not have a Shas? Who does not have books? Studying, reading. It’s what I did my whole life. Whether you are a secular Jew or you’re a chassidic Jew, it’s all about education.
Well, perhaps we can take it a step further, but I would say it’s not just education in terms of knowledge, it’s also education about our values and giving that over to the next generation.
Well, that’s where Torah comes in. It’s how we treat each other. I always say Judaism is our relationship with Hashem, with G-d, and our relationship with each other. And I always say that Hashem wants us more to treat each other the right way. That’s really the essence. We had a Bais Hamikdash that was destroyed because of sinas chinam.
One of the things I saw all my life is I tell people, don’t be judgmental. Don’t try to protect Hakadosh Baruch Hu. Hashem does not need your help because in the world that we live in your way is the better way. That’s not your business. Lashon hara, rechilus, don’t worry about what others are doing. Think about yourself and become a better person. That’s the essence of life.
It was horrific. And I said to Dovi, “Are you willing to talk about it on the radio?” We used to do the show live. This time, I told him we would tape the show in advance. And he agreed to come on.
That was the beginning of me being publicly involved. Hundreds of people came forward to see me – men and women. I hired additional people. Shelly Silver, G-d bless him, gave me money for more staff. We were the first ones to talk about this, and people said to me in those days, “Forget it. You threw your career away.” A lot was being covered up in our community, and people weren’t happy that I was talking about it.
I learned so much about sexual abuse – why people don’t come out and talk about it right away. What did I know about sexual abuse? No one ever sat down and talked to me about it. But what I listened to and what I witnessed and the things we tried to do to help people – that was the most important thing I did, without any question.
You were in the Assembly for more than three decades. What are a few things that you could say really defined your career?
There are a lot of things… In general, I thank Hashem that I was able to, to a great extent, stay true to who I was and what I was all about because it wasn’t easy. There were times when I would endorse Republicans and the leadership of the Assembly would call me in and warn me and tell me that people wanted to take action against me. Can you imagine that I supported the opponent of the Governor of New York, Governor Mario Cuomo, and I was a Democrat in the Assembly? But I did it for a real reason that had to do with the Jewish people – it had to do with the Crown Heights Riots.
I think the thing I’m most proud of is being the first person in the Orthodox community to talk about sexual abuse, as I did. I had a radio show for 15 years, and I would bring people onto the show. There was a young man, Dovi, one of my son’s closest friends. He used to come to our Shabbos table a lot. One time, he said to me, “I’d like to talk to you after Shabbos, if possible.” He was like 18, 19 years old at the time.
After Shabbos, he came over and he shared with me the sexual abuse that he went through perpetrated by a prominent man in the community and in yeshiva. You and Shani are very involved in so many things. What do you do to relax?
It’s very simple. Read. Go to my night table, you’ll see. I read. Finish. Next book. Next book. I read only nonfiction.
Shina and I go to Israel a lot. I love Israel – I’ve been there 120 times. We have a home there. I’d like to go back tomorrow, and I just came back. I love Israel very much, but if I didn’t have books, I would go crazy.
By the way, what I read gives me heartache because the stuff that I read is devastating. I’m reading a book now by Goldhagen about the Catholic Church. I read about the antisemitism, the hate. I torture myself sometimes reading these types of books, so in between reading books that are like this, I’ll read a good book about John Wayne. The books that I read are mainly reviewed by the Wall Street Journal. It’s the one paper we get here.
If I’m not reading, I’m learning Rabbi Sax. Look over there. There are five of his seforim over there. If I learned Torah the way Rabbi Sax presents it when I was going to yeshiva, I’d be a rosh yeshiva today, probably. He brings it alive. Torah is beautiful, but you also have to have the right teachers.
