Ahmad Jamal by Alvin Carter Bey

American Jazz Pianist, Composer, Bandleader, Educator

July 2, 1930

Ahmad Jamal was born July 2, 1930, in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Before he formed his first trio in 1951, Jamal worked in Pittsburgh.

This is the radio interview with Ahmad Jamal by Alvin Carter-Bey on September 28, 2014.

ACB: We have a legendary piano stylist and I want to say Chicago’s own. The great Ahmad Jamal is here at WHPK. But he’s from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and lives on the East Coast, when he’s in the United States. Good afternoon, sir. AJ: Alvin Carter-Bey, I’ve been waiting for you, my friend. Thank you very kindly. I have been preparing for you with your erudite self. ACB: Listen, You’re such a wonderful man and we really appreciate you. AJ: Well, I appreciate your contribution to the culture of the world, Mr. Alvin Carter-Bey. ACB: Thank you very much, sir. AJ: You’re delving into one of the world’s greatest art forms, American Classical Music. You coined that phrase for someone, I think. ACB: Hey, listen, for you. And I got into a little trouble. I had a lot of different discussions. Just recently, I read something about Gray Bartz dismissing the word Jazz altogether because he thought it was a word of profanity and it should not be used. AJ: He’s well-versed in the sodash, defined as profanity in Webster’s Dictionary. That’s correct. Gary Bartz is a scholar. ACB: So, you’re saying that he’s on target in respect to AJ: Yeah, sure. That’s one of the definitions of jazz and a word that I don’t think correctly defines what we do, you know. Ellington didn’t call himself a jazz artist. John Coltrane didn’t. At least, I don’t think he did. I don’t call myself a jazz musician. I call myself an artist who plays American Classical Music. I’m not paranoid about the word Jazz because what we’ve done is sophisticated. But Jazz is not a sophisticated word. It was never meant to rise to the status that we know it as a worldwide cultural. Thousands of youngsters are learning this artform in the United States. You’ve heard of Berklee School of Music and the New School. Juilliard has Jimmy Heath as a graduate and tenured professor. He taught there for years. The late Dr. Yusef Lateef taught at Amherst, [where Archie Shepp taught]. People are studying this musical art form. It is powerful music. This is powerful stuff. ACB: I’m glad that I am a part of it and it’s a wonderful thing that you do. We listened to some tracks from your recording in 2008. It’s magic in the piece. What’s the name? AJ: Arabesque ACB: Arabesque. Where did that come from? AJ: It’s a Moorish ornament design [or style that employs flower, foliage, or fruit and sometimes animal and figural outlines to produce an intricate pattern of interlaced lines] with Arabic writing in the background. Also, it is a dance where you’re standing on one leg extending the other leg horizontally. I used certain tonalities that are reminiscent of the Arabic scale. That’s why I called it Arabesque because it is based on musical tonalities. ACB: Was this Idris Muhammad’s last date with you? AJ: No. He was a great drummer. What a loss. He was a great man, a great character, and a great drummer. I think he did more recording, after that, I’m not sure. I have over 60 records. I lost count. ACB: We played your early Okeh recording, That Gal in Calico, which

took us back some years, when Miles Davis was saying that you were a great inspiration to his song styling and how he wanted one of his piano players Red Garland to sound just like Ahmad Jamal. AJ: Well, you have to get that from a compilation. If you dropped that record it would break. Those were acetate recordings I made in 1951. I have both of them framed. So, you must have gotten that from the compilation that John Hammond did that included Gal in Calico. You have the old acetate recording? No. ACB: Yes. This is actually Okeh epic. AJ: Are you kidding me? ACB: Oh, no. I kid you not. AJ: On 78? ACB: Yes, we do have a 78. AJ: I’m going to come and get it. It’s worth some money. ACB: Oh, well, I better try to hold on to it then. AJ: I will be in Chicago on October 10, 2014, at the Chicago Symphony Center. ACB: We’re looking for a great turnout to welcome you, Mr. Jamal. AJ: My second home, Chicago. I know a little bit about that town. ACB: You were here for how long? AJ: 12 years. From 1948 until 1960. ACB: And you had Club Alhambra? AJ: I did. With 43 employees in one of my more adventurous years. ACB: Did you regret having a show club? AJ: It was a nightmare for me. ACB: Really? AJ: 43 employees. I bought that building and gutted it out. It was a learning experience. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. These things make you the person that you are, today. Hopefully, you have a positive finish, regardless of the negative things you may get involved in. The restaurant was a negative thing for me. ACB: Tell us about AJ. Describe yourself. AJ: You want me to write a book? ACB: No, no. Give me a minute or two. Let people know who AJ is. AJ: 84 years young. My daughter thinks l am 18, but I’m not. I’ve been around. We just left Tokyo. The artist, whom we co-manage with Yamaha Music Foundation, wanted me to be on stage with her, again. I presented her with George Wein and Talla Penja, in Perugia, Italy, and in Marsiac, France. Irony is a pianist, who is making a lot of waves. She wanted me to come to Tokyo. I’m going to Prague, after I leave Chicago. Then, I’m going to stay home for the rest of the year. Because the old man is backing off now, Al Carter-Bay. I’m going to stay home and work on my publishing and enjoy my house. ACB: So how would you describe your personality? AJ: I can’t describe it. You’ll have to describe it. ACB: Well, I think you’re a wonderful person. AJ: I am an introvert who has become an extrovert. I was withdrawn but I’m a talkative, outgoing person, now. I am different from when I was in Chicago, in the early years. I was very withdrawn with a lot of responsibilities. But, after hardship, there’s ease. I had a lot of hardships, a lot of knocks and bumps on the road. But that’s what makes a person. Sometimes, you have to have pain for gain. No pain no gain. I had a lot of pain. ACB: You’ve been with this music for a long, long, time and still hanging with it. AJ: I’ve been with a lot of things a long time. I was in Egypt, in 1959. I planned the trip when I was 11 years old. I almost stayed there. I didn’t because my mother was still living, I wanted to go back but I went to Sudan, in 1959, which was reported on the front page of the New York Times. They wrote about what I was doing in Egypt! ACB: Well, it’s a great place but I don’t want to go back right now. AJ: No, It’s not as peaceful as it was then. In 1959, it was peaceful. I spoke at Al-Azhar University and had a wonderful host, Dr. Sharodoby, who’s gone now. My host in Sudan was Ex-minister of the interior Sheikh Ali Abdul Rahman. He’s gone. A great man in a great experience for a young guy only 29 years old. I left the Blue Note, after we sold out, and I had $2.50 in my pocket. I fulfilled a lifetime dream, a childhood dream, by going to Egypt. I left the Blue Note in Chicago, where we broke all the records with just three pieces. But that’s the strength of that record. We did it at the old Pershing Hotel in Chicago. My career was launched in Chicago. ACB: That particular record of 1958, was that your best-selling record? AJ: It still is. ACB: Okay. So, has there been anything else, since then, that you think would go beyond that in terms of your talent, your artistry? AJ: People asked me what is the best record I ever made. I said, “The next one.”

ACB: Okay. Okay. Okay. AJ: Is that a good answer or not? ACB: Well, I found the Naked City Theme [2008] to be a great one. AJ: Well, there’s been no parallel as far as record sales are concerned like the historic recording at the Pershing. It doesn’t happen

anymore. The great Diva Shirley Horn was a friend of mine and one of the most talented women that I ever knew. She made a record Here’s To Life with Robert and Johnny Mandel that should have been on the charts, until today. It doesn’t do that anymore. I had record sales on the charts are 108 weeks. That doesn’t happen anymore. There is too much of a glut on the market. Independent record companies no longer exist. There are only a few big conglomerates. But when we made The Pershing that was in an era that is not coming back. Shirley’s record Here’s To Life should have stayed on the charts for 108-110 weeks like The Pershing but that doesn’t happen anymore. Very rarely. ACB: Well, you know I wish you forever life. And are you enjoying what you do? AJ: If you don’t make discoveries every day, you’re dead. You might be walking around but you’re dead if you don’t make discoveries. So, I enjoy life because I’m happy to say I make discoveries, every day, mostly about myself. ACB: Okay. AJ: And when I make discoveries about myself, I may make discoveries about others like Al Carter-Bey. I made a discovery about you now. ACB: Oh, man, listen. AJ: Discoveries every day. And when you make discoveries, everyday, life is interesting. It took me a long time to get there. ACB: Is James Cammack still performing with you?

AJ: He’s going to do Prague with me but Reginald Veal is going to do the Chicago date. ACB: Would that be a trio? AJ: No, I’m using my small ensemble of four pieces. ACB: Manolo Badrena? AJ: Manolo, Reginald Veal, Herlin Riley, and myself. ACB: Oh, that sounds like a great group. AJ: I’m taping at the Prague with the Saturday Morning group. ACB: Okay. AJ: The one with Blue Moon that was nominated for the Grammy, Whatever that means. ACB: You’re listening to WHPK 88.5 FM Hyde Park Chicago, streaming at www.whpk.org. We’re talking to the legendary piano stylist of American Classical Music, the one and only Ahmad Jamal. Several weeks ago, you and I talked about a particular word that is Ebonics from the black or African American words ‘fitnah’. That is in a song you wrote entitled, It’s Magic. A lot of black people use the word ‘fitnah’. They say, “I’m fitnah go to the store. I’m fitnah run an errand.” But it’s I’m fitnah. So, where did this word come from f-i-t-n-a-h? AJ: It’s an Arabic word meaning many trials or testing. It may be a word that we used as people who came here as slaves who did not speak English. They were speaking something else. So, fitnah may be a word that was the residue of what they were speaking when they came here. There’s a connection. It may be one of the words used in Arabic. ACB: Well, that’s often. AJ: You’re telling me that this is a word that you’re familiar with? ACB: Very much so. AJ: We use that word in the AfroAmerican community. We weren’t speaking English when we came here. It may be a carryover. We spoke when we came here, could well be. There are many other occasions where that happened. ACB: Well, it’s a word that locked into the community because certainly 99.9% of the African-American community says fitnah. It’s wonderful and I’m going to play fitnah next. But listen, thank you very much. We look forward to seeing you October 10th at the Chicago Symphony. AJ: Is that your birthday? ACB: Yes, sir, that is my birthday. AJ: I don’t celebrate birthdays. I don’t think you do. I don’t celebrate my own birthday but other people do, so happy birthday. ACB: Thank you. AJ: In advance ACB: Well, other people celebrate my birthday because of someone like you. But it’s enjoyable because each day is a birthday so long as I’m still alive and well. It’s always a pleasure to talk to you and I can’t wait to see you in concert. AJ: Al, thank you. ACB: Thank you very much. Have a wonderful day. Thank you very kindly, sir. AJ: Have a good one. ACB: Sure, bye-bye AJ: Chow ACB: The great Ahmad Jamal, here at WHPK. And we were speaking of fintah, so we want you to listen to this here at WHPK.