Interview [with Anna Abrahams / teacher

Beerend Honing: Can you tell me a little bit about yourself and your practice? Anna Abrahams: I do anything I can get my hands on that is related to art as moving image. So I‘ve made films, I’ve made virtual reality pieces, I teach, I‘ve written a lot and I curate film programs and virtual reality for Eye Film Museum Amsterdam. I really love all these things. I started mainly as a filmmaker and writer and now I have shifted more toward curating. But then, every four years or so, you have to leave the KABK as a teacher for a while. And then suddenly for a whole year, I had one day a week free. I thought: ‘Wow, this is my chance. I‘m going to make something again that I really, really want to do.’ I wanted to make a virtual reality piece because this new medium really fascinates me. The subject mat07 [with Anna Abrahams / teacher] ter, I had already carried around in my back pocket for like five years. It‘s called Angels of Amsterdam. Interview

BH: What is Angels of Amsterdam? AA: Angels of Amsterdam is a virtual reality work where you are in a 17th-century cafe in Amsterdam. It‘s a cafe that really exists, and there are lots of people around you, just like in a real cafe. When “I had to turn things around, not see it through his eyes, but tell the you are open for contact and your eyes meet for 10 seconds, somebody comes to you and shares a little bit of their lives. But when you‘re shy and story directly through the eyes of the women.” Anna Abrahams is a writer, (VR) filmmaker, curator at Eye Filmmuseum and she teaches Audiovisual in the you look away, you look in your glass, not so much happens. So everybody has a little bit of a different experience. One of the characters you meet is a girl who came to Amsterdam, and she couldn‘t make a living. Then she did two jobs; she still couldn‘t make a living. But she was really smart: She stole some second year of the Bachelor Photography men‘s clothing, she went behind the church, took off her room‘s clothing, put on men‘s clothes, and then she did the same job and she earned enough money. It‘s still exactly the same. Even though it talks about 17th-century women, it‘s actually about young women now. BH: Did the project change in the process of making? AA: The perspective changed. It started with a book from the 17th century that I found. It‘s called Whores of Amsterdam. The book was about someone giving a tour through the red light District of Amsterdam. And so I had this guy as a starting point. Only after a while did I think: ‘well, that‘s wrong. This man is inviting you to the women, but It‘s the women that interest me!’ So I threw him out. <laugh> It really took me maybe half a year before I finally understood that this was just the wrong perspective. I had to turn things around, not see it through his eyes, but tell the story directly through the eyes of the women. That was a big step.

BH: For the funding of the project, you were supported by the Filmfonds, Stimuleringsfonds en Amsterdam fonds voor de kunst (AFK), and so I was wondering, how does that process of receiving funding look like? AA: Well, when you write for the film fund, you do it in phases. The first phase is research development, so that‘s everything you do before you can start producing. And when they give you this, this means that they trust you already. So then if you do what you say that you are going to do, the chances are quite big that you also get the production money. And then later you can also ask for post-production. The first time I sent the proposal to AFK, I still had the wrong perspective and they were quite critical of it. I didn‘t really understand why, and it was not accepted. And then the second time I changed the perspective and then it was accepted. BH: What were they critical of? AA: They said: ’we are not waiting for another story about 17th-century Amsterdam with lots of prostitutes.’ They thought it was too much of a cliche, maybe. BH: I would imagine it is very difficult as a filmmaker if you always depend on funding to stay true to yourself. Do you ever adapt your ideas or concepts to the application for the funding? AA: No. And I never did. But for now, I don‘t have to live from this because I have a job as a curator, have a job here, so I really do it because I‘m passionate about it. If you have to make a living solely on making, then of course the chances are bigger that you have to adapt to the big funders. They have all these programs nowadays. So they are quite clear about what they‘re interested in. And then there‘s always a little part of the funding that is open. And I go to these open things. But 08 [with Anna Abrahams / teacher] it‘s always good to find out what the special programs of the big funders are. BH: What do you look out for when writing a proposal? AA: Just go to the website of the film fund and see what the possibilities are. I know they have all kinds of things for the first or second film. There are these programs like: five young people can make a film about first love or something. BH: Would they really say what the topic should be? AA: Yes. Also, photography grants work mostly with themes. It‘s different from the Mondrian art fund. They look mainly at, are you graduated from an art academy? Do you have a gallery? How many exhibitions did you have? If that‘s okay, you‘re okay and it‘s less important what your plan actually is. BH: Have you learned anything from your experience of writing proposals?

AA: As someone who has also been on boards for funds, I would say really write it like it is a film. So think visually when you are writing, it‘s not an academic article. give the people that read it the feeling that they‘ve already seen a glimpse of your film. BH: I have one final question. Do you have any advice for our readers?

AA: I’ve always traveled a lot for the films and I think it‘s really important that even though you talk about very distant places, you always stay really close to yourself. BH: Well Anna, thank you for your time. <ends recording> AA: Thank you for inviting me. How long is it? BH: 39 minutes. AA: Okay. Don‘t, don‘t even listen to it anymore. Right now, write down what you thought was interesting.