KS That's great. So I handed that in, that was like 20% of it, and I did well in that ,I got a first in that one. So I got that sort of banked and now I'm on to the next stage. G Well done. KS Thank you, which is into the, sort of, so that one was all like all my research,so I was sort of gathering research and understanding like the context of what I was talking about, and then now basically, this submission is all about, kind of idea generation. So it's to do with trying to work out how I can fix the problems, which I've come across, and notice from the insights that I've gained, not obviously that I can fix them completely, but just sort of what you interpret is going to be the best kind of aim or goal. That's kind of how I like how I think of it in my head, this is what you're like trying to achieve, or you're trying to implicate, within what you've been, within the realms of what you've been researching, and what you've been noticing. So yeah, basically, a part of this submission is also to do with getting, sort of experts or within that area, or people who in your consumer bracket to kind of respond to some of the ideas that you have been looking at. So I have had five, because you have to write them in like statements, it's like, they term, like they call it like a big idea, which is like what they, how they describe it in like marketing. So it's kind of like a statement that sums it up, really. So the idea is that you would have three, and then you kind of test them and work out which ones work well and pick one, I had five because I had so much going on. And then I spoke to lots of people who I felt were in my consumer bracket and then made sort of one idea which I thought took the best parts of two of them and brought that together. So now I'll just share with you the idea as it stands at the moment. And just kind of ask you some questions like surrounding it in terms of how you think it sounds and what you think it, if you think there's any strengths or weaknesses or how relevant you think it is, just wondering if I can share my screen, because then I can put the to be honest I can, you know, the, the chat, I can just copy the statement and I can just put it in there G It will share now. So it's basically looking at solutions and like, grouping them into a statement, like the main solutions. Yeah, KS exactly that. What I'll do is I'll just send this into the, into the chat, there you go, and then you can just read it in there. So is it okay also, just if I record the meeting as well, and just so I can take some quotes from it, I can just record it on my phone, if that's okay. Okay, that's great. G Yes KS Yes, so the idea at the moment, I don't know if you can see it in the chat, but it, I'll read it out loud. So it's fostering a positive and hopeful attitude that emphasises necessity, over urgency through discourse that is digestible, and encourages a dialogic outlook. It sounds so
pretentious. When I read it aloud, I think, Oh, my goodness, it's so long. It's got so many words in it, but just you know, quite wordy. But, so it's sort of split into three parts, I would say. So the first part, the idea of fostering a positive, hopeful attitude, I suppose that sort of one part in itself, is about me noticing that, I think, that there is a there's something in the idea that people are quite easily put off from talking about, you know, in this case, in regards to what you talk about environmentalism and and fast fashion, it can be about anything, though, can be about women's issues, race, you know, all sorts of things. I think they can be off putting, because they, G Because it pushes people way off KS So I think the idea of fostering a positive and a narrative that's more hopeful, and that's kind of more, it sort of focuses less, yet focuses less on the negative realities and focuses more on what it could be. G Yeah. KS And so this part is obviously important that emphasises necessity over urgency. So I've kind of been looking at you know, all sorts of things and I think that most of the time when the when you're trying to communicate If something and it comes across overwhelming or too confusing for this demographic, it's because the brand or the charity or whoever is putting that messaging out there, is trying to communicate a sense of urgency, they're trying to say we need to act now. Like, it's so important. And I think that just flipping that slightly, to become more of a necessity for individuals, over the idea of collective urgency is slightly more manageable for people to be able to think about. So what I mean by that is, instead of kind of saying, oh, you know, we're all gonna die, because the planet is just slowly coming to, you know, a, like a boiling point, like a tipping point really, where we won't be able to reverse the damage that we've done, that's communicating a sense of urgency. But by kind of saying, if you were, this is not thought through, but if you were saying, you know, we love our planet, this is all the great things the planet does, how much do you rely on the planet, you know, kind of like trying to speak to them on a more personal level that encourages them to see it as a necessary thing for them to do rather than an urgent thing that must be catered to. So that's that part, and then through discourse that is digestible, so that's just bringing kind of, the tone of voice to be more understandable and slightly more informal and personal, so that people can just relate to the way you're speaking to them easier, rather than speaking in quite broad terms. And then encouraging a dialogic outlook. Dialogism is something that I have been looking at, which I'm not sure if you know about it, I didn't know that there was a word for it especially, but it, the term kind of is to do with the idea that you can be, two things can exist co dependently, when they can exist together, even though they're contradictory. So it's kind of about the idea that you can be strong, and you can be confident, and you can be passionate, but you can also be gentle, you can also be empathetic, you can also be vulnerable. So it's about encouraging the idea that these two things, which I think society tries to separate quite a lot, especially also between men and women, the idea that men are strong, and they don't talk about their feelings, and they don't
put as much thought into things. And women, you know, are, should be more thinking in that way, the idea that that's, you know, they shouldn't be separated and that they can come together. So that is me sort of just running through what the idea is, I'll just get your kind of initial thoughts on it, and then I'll ask like, just a couple of questions, more, more targeted questions. Yeah. So what kind of your immediate reaction to it? G Yeah, sounds really good. So this is all focused on like the fashion industry, right? And, yeah, so like, you're focused on sustainable fashion and the issues within the industry and how we can bring change, right? KS So the research hasn't been specifically focused on the sustainable fashion industry, but the sustainable fashion industry is one of the main examples that I've looked at in reference to it. So it can apply to lots of different social issues. But fashion, the fashion industry and the environment, the climate, in general, has been a really big part of the research, which I've done. G Makes sense. Yeah, I think this, this can really be applied to a lot of things like a lot of issues that we're facing, should be tackled using as logic, I think, because I agree, a positive and hopeful rather than like an overwhelming and negative idea. That's definitely important, because otherwise people can just not do anything. They just feel overwhelmed. They stop because they think, well it's too big for me to actually make a difference. So that's often what, what you get, and I would say, also, more hopeful in the sense that you also give leeway for change, and you explain there's potential to do things differently, and that we can actually improve things, and it's not all doom and gloom, but there are innovations, there are solutions, a way that we can make this better. So I think this, this solution focused approach rather than just overwhelming people with the facts and the current situation, which is important, but, we need to look towards the future and how these things can change. So, I think talking about the tools that we have in the ways we can bring about change, and, yeah, necessity over urgency… Yeah, I think it's, it's kind of like the initial part, like positiveness rather than, like, just a negative approach, but I think urgency also is a part of it. I think you can be hopeful in positive, talking about something that urgently needs to be done, but I think yeah, maybe more individual approach because as you said, like often often it's it is a system issue and this is to me to change about as an individual it can be overwhelming just thinking about all the things are wrong and like overall and this holistic view, because you can only influence little parts, you can really change your own behaviours and your own lifestyle, so KS Yeah, exactly G Yeah I think that's, that's really important, and then yeah, definitely digestible information. 100%, easy to understand, simple, and, yeah, I like the idea of dialogical outlook, sort of like making a compromise and not having to be a certain way, but using all of our capacities, all
of our scales to bring about change, and that also includes collaboration I think, the different professionals and yeah, it's great. I really like this approach. KS That's good. Yeah, with the, on the idea of people being overwhelmed by things I did, like a poll where I got people to answer. The question was, do you ever feel overwhelmed or confused by social political issues eg climate change feminism, fast fashion, and 91% of people said that they do. So, you know, that was like a really big thing. I just kind of thought that's not good, because, you know, even though, the thing is, I consider myself quite involved in these things. I read about it, but if I saw that I would also probably answer yes, because I think G Yes KS Even though you're immersed in the understandings of it, and the conversations that go on around it, you can still feel that it's overwhelming. G Yeah, absolutely. Especially the more you know, I think. KS Yeah, yeahI agree actually, I think that's one of the things that the idea will have to try and, yeah, I think that the idea once it progresses into the next stage, will have to make sure, I would ask if you agree with this, that it doesn't, because like you say, the more you actually know about something, it can make it, because you obviously are more aware of the facts, it can make you more, what's the right word , it can make you more feel even more sort of negative towards the issues that you're talking about, or make you feel more dejected, because of the realities of it, so I think that's something that the idea is going to have to make sure doesn't happen. The main goal of, of the idea comes from sort of focusing on allowing the consumer to feel happy and confident talking about these issues, and as though they can openly, be comfortable sharing what they've learned or what they don't understand. because, you know, a massive part of my research, also, which I did briefly speak about, last time we spoke was about how people's own interpretations of themselves affects how altruistic they are, how likely they are to put their, themselves into other people's situations. So confident people basically make caring people. When I asked people would you describe yourself as a confident person? And 58% of people said, No. So I think that, you know, that there's a, there's a key thing there. Would you say that that's, you know, true? Do you find that kind of G Yeah, KS resonates? G
I think it also goes back to, like to, to ignite change, people need to feel like what they do matters and actually makes a difference. So, yeah, I think I agree, like, the more you know, the more you're aware of what's happening, the more overwhelmed you feel. I mean, it depends where you really look at because you can look at all the innovations and think they're changing, but at the root of it, the more you learn about an issue, the harder it seems to fix and the more overwhelming, but yeah, I agree that I agree what you said about people feeling like they, they need to kinda feel in control a little bit to be motivated I think, KS Yes, that's completely true. Okay, so, um, in terms of the questions which I have here? So this is quite a broad question. But do you? So obviously, because I'm talking about the idea that we need love, we need compassion, and we need empathy to be able to make the world a better place. Do you think that when you put your posts out there, or you talk about an issue? Do you see a difference? Do you think, in more positive, it doesn't even have to be stuff that, that you do, it could be, you know, people that you're inspired by and the way that they talk to their followers? Do you see a difference? Do you think in more positive versus more negative ways of communicating these issues and how it engages people? Because I do see quite a lot of people talking about the idea of like, scare mongering and getting people to be scared about the problem, almost like a shock tactic to make them then want to act versus someone that's communicating like you were saying, the innovations and making it more hopeful. So do you think that you notice a difference within your own content that you put out and the engagement that receives or other people's content that you follow? G Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the posts that go the best for me are the ones where they're quite negative, and why like, intense and extreme and very, also very targeted as well. Like, for example, the post about shein, and I feel like most posts I put out, can seem quite negative. And I think that in a way is sort of powerful. Because like, I think a mix of different things is good. Because if you just talk about the innovations that are the positive, people might seem, seem like there's already other people working on it, and things already getting fixed, and you know, can feel like, oh, great, like, I'm like, this is so inspiring and great, but then, like, I can step away from it and not feel guilty, and I think sort of a level of being scared and being sad and angry needs to be there in order to ignite change, like these emotions can be like, especially anger can be quite motivating. Otherwise, if you just look at the positives, first of all, I think it's gonna sugar coating the issues, because you can talk about innovations and things are being done, but unfortunately so much more needs to be done, especially the scale we need. So I think a mix of the two is good. And especially as an individual can feel very, very overwhelming just looking at the issues, and especially looking at the systemic problems. So I think more hopeful posts definitely, also go well, because you also need to offer solutions to people. That's what I try to do, I try to educate them, but also offer solutions with things that they can do. It's not going to fix the problem, but it is going to make a difference if everyone does it. So yeah, I think, I think negative posts are just, I just KS do think they maybe work on a more immediate level, like people see it G Yeah
KS Whereas hopeful posts, maybe have more longevity in terms of making people think about things, because sometimes I think if you shock someone, like they see it, they're shocked, and then they just immediately like, read about it, but then they just kind of move on because they think oh god, that was depressing. G Yeah. And I feel like it creates especially, I mean, what I've seen in fashion it creates an us versus them, like, this is all bad, and then people who were already like making switches or not buying fast fashion and things like that can feel like, you know, I'm better person who's not contributing to this, and it can feel like people, it can create a huge divide as well, and that also negative, I think, because, you know, there's people that are like, yeah, that's, that's really bad, I'm not contributing to it, and then people are like, this is really classist or I can't, I can't really quit fast fashion or, you know, it can be like, yeah you can create a really big divide, I think, between people who are already on the right path and others who are still learning about it or still don't have as much options, many options or, Yeah, it can feel very, that's why I often get lots of criticism about people, they say, well, not everyone can quit fast fashion and things like that. So yeah, I think as you said, the answers are very immediate as well. But I think it sticks to you if it very strong messaging, it sticks to you more, rather than sort of, yeah, grabs your attention more, and you engage with it more. KS Yes. When I was, I did like, a sort of SWOT analysis based around the, the idea, and one of the threats, which I interpreted, which I feel like you just brought up now, which might be good just to talk about. So I've said, of course, like, the premise of the idea is to make the issues lighter, but it needs to be careful to not to not be misconstrued as making light of the issues, because they're two different things. So you can make light of issues and and you can make issues feel lighter. Obviously you don't want to make light of climate change, or whatever, whatever it may be. It could, as I say, it could be anything. What do you think is the best way to make issues feel lighter without watering down the reality of it, or make, or you know, just making it more sort of understandable and more comprehensible for people. What do you think is the best way to balance that? G I think, really just finding a good balance of solutions, and, like, the good and the bad, because you can't just talk about the bad and the impacts and the negatives, without ever giving sort of like options or, or shining a light on, on what's been done. And I think what works for me is also talking about, like organisations that bring about change, and that are trying to make a difference or things that you can support. Because like if you put ,I think putting out the information out there, it can be overwhelming and negative, and sometimes can bring people down, but if you give them options, or what they can support what they can do with their money, or even, like just sharing a petition or signing something or containing the brand, you know, just giving them a sort of a pathway or sort of like, alternative or just ways they can actually do something. I think that's quite powerful. Because you can bring, we can bring that anger and frustration into action. Yeah, I think that's helpful. KS
Yeah. No, I agree with that. So do you, do you think that this idea which I have written down, how effective do you think that will be in terms of marketing for, if brands were to communicate using that kind of mindset, more? Or if charities, because I'm looking at charities as well, because I think that that's an important part of this topic is how not just looking at brands that are say conscious, so you know, brands that are innovating in a, iin a positive way, so brands like all birds, or organic basics, you know these brands that are really trying to do things the right way, not just looking at them, also looking at the people who are directly talking about the problems. So that could be clean, clean clothes campaign or Fashion Revolution. If you think that they were to operate using this idea which I've got written down, how do you think that would change what they produce? Do you think it would change? Do you think more can be done to achieve that way of thinking? I personally don't think that the idea of dialogic outlook is talked about very much. I don't think that people talk about the idea that you can be strong and confident and you can be passionate about these problems, but you can also be understanding and you can listen you can be vulnerable, because obviously the way how this project started out, was the idea that if you can empathise with a problem, you want to solve it, but I think that a lot of people are put off by the idea of empathising, because they think I don't really want to empathise because I know I don't want to understand it because it's going to make me sad or you know, empathising is too hard for some people, some people don't find it easy to empathise. So that was the original concept. So combining that idea of you can empathise, you can be vulnerable, you can be empathetic, but you can also then be strong and passionate and talk about these problems with determination and with anger, like you say. I don't personally think I see that very much. Do you agree with that? G Yeah, you're right. Yeah, you don't see it very much. It's all about like, fight, do get active, get out there, and yeah, yeah, I think also leaving a space to process information as well, like, yeah, it's good to have that sort of balance between like things to do and learning. But then sometimes you need some space to digest what you've learned, and, because it doesn't happen so automatically, so quickly, where you just learn about something it makes you angry, and you want to act. Sometimes you need to, you read about this, and then take a break, like process it, think about what you can do also, like, I get what you mean about rejecting urgency in that way, as well, because sometimes when we learn about something, and we just want to do, want to fix things so quickly, sometimes we don't really do it the right way, because we don't even take time to think about the right way to do it. So I think yeah, this, this way of looking at things definitely, would definitely benefit people and would include way more people into issues because some people don't, like, we're all, we all have different personalities, we all have different ways, different skills, ways that we can actually help movements and sometimes it can feel like if you don't get out there and protest, and go and get on the ground and benefit change that way, then you're useless and you can't do anything, and you're not good enough and all that. So I think yeah, we need to understand as well, there are a variety of scales and just bringing people together in different ways. Yeah, that's not really talked about enough. I think. KS I think Yeah. G
Yeah, KS that's good. I'm glad that you think so. I think just originally, part of the idea kind of stemmed from the, the thought that I feel like a lot of people don't talk about the personal benefits that you experience from being a nice person and caring about things. I think it's always like, Oh, you're so on your high horse, or, you know, you're quite, you know, you're so moralistic, but I think that people don't actually focus on the idea that it can, it makes you happier to extend empathy to other people. And that poll, which I had, that was that 60% of people basically, don't consider themselves confident. If I asked you, do you, do you consider yourself a confident person? G Depends, in some situations are more than others. But, I mean, it's always, it's a whirlwind of emotions, because sometimes you can feel like you can't do anything, you just little, one, one out of billions of people on this earth and you can't do anything and so yeah, it's it's difficult because you're often only focused on, I mean sometimes I actually hear like only the positives, you know, that that that the, these sort of actions bring you KS Yes G But yeah, I think a dialogic Outlook with help also, thinking about the variety of emotions and feelings arise from this sort of work, this work and just looking at issues in general. So, and I think you need to embrace both emotions.that you can learn from, from different ways of, from different things that come out of like research and learning about things. Both are important because you do need to be empathetic and like actually put yourself in the shoes of people your, your, your research more people who you see are effective, for example, with the fashion industry, but at the same time, it's it, you also kind of have to be strong and and find that motivation to do something about it so I think yeah, you just have to accept that different reaction to it. KS Yeah, that's great. I think I'll stop the recording now because that that will be quite long.
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