AN INTERVIEW WITH SARAH DIVER: UNDERSTANDING SHE, THEY, US

by She, They, Us

In this article, we introduce Sarah Diver, the founder of the Mazama affinity group, She, They, Us. After relocating to Portland during the pandemic, Sarah completed the Basic Climbing Education Program (BCEP) in 2022 and quickly became an active member of the Mazamas. Her passion for climbing and community led her to establish the She, They, Us group in 2023, alongside several dedicated volunteers, following her completion of the Intermediate Climbing School (ICS).

Since its inception, She, They, Us has garnered considerable interest, creating a welcoming space for women and femmeidentifying individuals in the climbing community. Sarah has expressed her delight in witnessing the group’s growth and often engages with those curious about its mission or eager to join. Through her leadership and experience in organizing activities specifically for women and femme-identifying climbers, Sarah aims to illuminate the significance of this affinity space within the broader Mazama community. In this interview, Sarah shares her journey, insights, and the impact of She, They, Us on outdoor activities and inclusivity in climbing.

What is an affinity space?

We see the word “affinity” a lot in descriptions of the natural world and in science, and the Merriam Webster dictionary refers to a few definitions as, “sympathy marked by community of interest” or “an attraction to or liking for something.” The word, “affinity,” to me captures something important, which is the idea of different, unique entities or individuals coming together under a broader shared purpose or quality. Sharing an affinity for something is not an erasure of one’s uniqueness, but rather, a celebration of that.

An affinity group is simply a community of people who gather together because they share a common experience or identity. In the workplace, this is often called an employee resource group (ERG). Different groups can have different goals, from creating policy changes in an organization to socializing, and an affinity group often self-identifies its goals. The beauty of an affinity group is that there is no one “right” way to be in community with other people. Like all relationships, it is something that grows and takes on new meaning with each iteration. What may be a priority for the Melanated Mazamas or the Queerzamas may not be a priority for She, They, Us— and that’s what makes affinity spaces great!

Why did you create She, They, Us?

The simplest answer is that I created She, They, Us because I personally benefited from those types of organizations early in my climbing career. I wanted to pay it forward as a volunteer with the Mazamas.

Before moving to Portland, I lived and worked in New York City for six years. Leaving my home state of Colorado and finding myself smack-dab in the middle of the concrete jungle, I was desperate to get outdoors. I found it difficult to make friends who shared my love for carrying a heavy pack several miles over rocky trails day-in and day-out, so I turned to the internet to find a community of like-minded people. As a single woman at the time, I didn’t feel comfortable backpacking or leaving the confines of the city with strangers I met online. Through a women’s hiking Facebook group, I discovered the Outdoor Women’s Alliance (OWA), a nonprofit designed to connect women interested in the outdoors. With OWA, I was able to find a safe space to meet up with other backpackers, but I also was introduced to other activities through guided experiences OWA offered, like rock climbing in the Adirondacks and ice climbing in New Hampshire. Signing up for these types of activities led me to join a climbing gym for the first time and feel more confident in improving my skills. I was totally hooked on climbing after those experiences, and I never would have thought to try these types of activities if it weren’t for the opportunities and safe learning environment with experienced mentors that the OWA provided. In other words, I didn’t imagine that someone like me with little-to-no experience climbing could even get started in the sport. Learning to climb ice and rock alongside other novice women made me feel like I could try and fail without judgment, a point I will return to later on. This was invaluable to my success later on in the Mazamas. I would later go on to lead women/femme-identifying backpacking trips for OWA, and through my connections with OWA, join an all-female fundraiser climb of Mt. Adams, where I raised money to support breast cancer research through Jody’s Climb for Hope. have found my way to climbing in quite the same way, if at all, which is why I started She, They, Us. comfortable enough to apply for BCEP or join a street ramble with the Mazamas, there are probably many still out there wishing they felt “brave” enough to participate. In my view, it’s our responsibility as female leaders in the outdoors to open doors for others who have the desire but not the capacity (for any reason) to participate. As the ones who do feel comfortable climbing with men and challenging ourselves in the wilderness, it’s important to think of the many people who could benefit from our skillset, knowledge, and wisdom – as opposed to saying, “Well I did it, so why can’t they?”

Why does the Mazamas need an affinity space like She, They, Us?

The Mazamas has had a long history of women participating in and shaping the organization since the very early days when ladies climbed Mt. Hood in corsets and long wool skirts. Today, there are countless examples of women in leadership roles throughout the organization, including our Executive Director, and the many female Mazama members and climb leaders learning, growing, climbing hard things, and being active thriving participants in every aspect of the community. I find that many of my closest friends and climbing partners are men, and I don’t think twice about it.

She, They, Us was created to form a new pathway into the Mazamas and support the kinds of folks I hope to see continue to shepherd this organization into the future.

As the many wonderful volunteer instructors in the Mazamas know, all it takes sometimes is one kind word of encouragement to change someone’s perspective of themselves, which can mean the difference between “I can’t do it” to “I can try.” For some people, this type of support best comes from someone with their shared experience or identity. Each of us were beginners in this sport at some point in our lives, and She, They, Us offers just one of many ways for someone to learn how to get outside.

Who can participate in She, They, Us events?

When She, They, Us first got started, we felt it was important to be as inclusive as possible. To put it simply, our affinity space is for historically underrepresented gender expressions in the climbing and outdoor space.

Moving to Portland in 2020, I applied for BCEP thanks to my newfound confidence and passion for ice and rock climbing that I discovered on the East coast. If it had not been for my early positive experiences in addition to the feeling of safety I had through the OWA, I don’t know if I would:

So, if women seem to thrive in the Mazamas, why then do women, femmeidentifying, and genderqueer people need an affinity space?

The answer is very simple: it’s a question of access.

It’s easy to point to the many amazing female and genderqueer people in the Mazamas who are crushing it, and say, “I don’t see a problem here!” It’s exactly what we don’t see that is what She, They, Us hopes to address. While there are numerous examples of women who felt

An affinity space by definition is for people who identify with a particular identity, which does mean some gender expressions are excluded, specifically cismen who have had the most access to this sport.

I identify as a cis-woman1 and female in what most might consider to be a heteronormative way, but expressing femininity and womanhood can take many different forms and do not live within a hierarchy. We wanted to let others who identify as femme, genderqueer, trans, nonbinary or otherwise, to feel welcome. I’ve had to learn from and look to others who know more about gender identity than me to shape language around inclusion for the group, and it’s something I’m still learning more about. One of the beauties of being a leader of an affinity space is the opportunity to learn from the many wonderful people who participate. Together, we teach each other how to be more empathetic and welcoming in the outdoors, which makes us better climbers and humans.

■ Many heterosexual women enjoy recreating in an environment where they are less likely to experience sexual harassment or romantic advances from single straight men.

What kinds of challenges do women and femmeidentifying people face in the outdoors?

As a leader for many She, They, Us activities, I’ve heard many anecdotes about the ways this space operates to create a sense of safety for participants.

I want to highlight a few things I hear repeatedly from those who are appreciative this type of environment:

• In a sport dominated by primarily white cis-men, many women and genderqueer people feel they need to have an elevated level of competency just to be able to participate. Having a place where they can make mistakes, ask questions without judgment, and try new things without the presence of men has been a relief for many She, They, Us participants.

• Many women who were born as female appreciate a space where they can talk about the unique challenges specific to their bodies in the outdoors, particularly in a culture where there has historically been a lot of shame concerning openly sharing about personal hygiene and body functions for women.

• Many heterosexual women enjoy recreating in an environment where they are less likely to experience sexual harassment or romantic advances from single straight men.

Being surrounded by other women and femme-identifying people gives many participants a sense of calm where they can be fully themselves, as there tends to be a less competitive atmosphere.

Some women who have been victims of sexual violence, sexual harassment, and/ or stalking feel more comfortable climbing with only women and femme-identifying people.

Each person comes to the Mazamas with a unique life experience. She, They, Us can be a place to offer solace to those for whom the traditional mixed gender activities feel challenging, overwhelming, or just not what they want.

Where did the name come from?

When a small group of us got together to begin thinking of a name, several people offered different suggestions, and we took a vote on which is the favorite.

She, They, Us won in part because it exemplifies what we do. People who use she/her pronouns and people who use they/them pronouns collectively come together under a “they” plural to become an “us” community.

What kinds of things does She, They, Us do? How can someone get involved?

I send out a monthly newsletter with a round-up of all our activities, which range from climbs, ski tours, and hikes to more casual meet-ups. We have also had She, They, Us learning opportunities like this fall’s multipitch climbing class. If anyone is interested, be sure to check out upcoming She, They, Us activies and events on the Mazama calendar.

This past spring was the first-ever She, They, Us BCEP group, which was led by the extremely talented Christine Troy and Toby Contreras. Our new social media guru, Kris Holmes, was part of that group and now runs our Instagram account (@shetheyusmazamas). Kris does a fantastic job and advertises our latest events! Highly recommend following us on Instagram thanks to Kris.

We host a monthly indoor climb night, which the amazing Julie Tembunkiart helps oversee. This occurs the second Thursday of each month. We meet in the lobby of either Portland Rock Gym or Movement Portland at 6:30 p.m., and we welcome all skills and abilities. You don’t need to be a Mazama member to participate in our climb nights. We also sometimes partner with other femme-focused initiatives both locally and nationally, like SheJumps, Ladies Climbing Coalition, and AIARE’s Professional Growth Network. I love to think of the Mazamas as just one of many places where women and genderqueer people can find resources to get outside.

I’m looking forward to organizing future collaborations, classes, and events with She, They, Us! We always welcome volunteers who want to get involved. Anyone interested in learning more about us can contact us via email at shetheyus@ mazamas.org.

What about cis-male allies?

For events like climb nights, people of all skill levels are welcome, but that space is intended for those identifying as female, femme, trans, or non-binary. We ask that cis-males don't attend except when a particular event invites them to do so. We have some amazing cis-male allies, teachers, assistants, and volunteers who have helped create this space, but not every event and activity includes them