Shootin' the Bull with Jennifer Hill - Hi/ Cattle Company

Derek: OK, let's get to it! Tell us about what you do.

Jennifer: We have a fifth-generation cow-calf operation up in the Nebraska Sandhills. In the last 13 years or so, we have also added a seed stock operation, raising both Black Hereford and Angus. In addition to that, I host a podcast called the Black Hereford Chronicles.

D: Black Herefords? Tell us more.

Jennifer: You know, our cow-calf herd goes back many generations, and so there's a little bit of almost everything mixed in there. In the last like 40 years or so, it had been kind of nailed down to that very standard Hereford/Angus cross. Everybody wants that heterosis, the Baldy calves top the market every year. It’s just kind of the standard.

About 13 years ago, my husband and I were walking around a Cattlemen's trade show one day, and tucked in a small corner was a little booth for Black Herefords, and we both went, "Oh, that's a thing?". We took their literature and visited with them. When we got home, my husband really started doing some research on what the heck a Black Hereford is. It just floored us! Something kind of kind of clicked in us that day. We wanted to know more. The need for Black Herefords was really emphasized when we sold calves that year. We sell the bulk of our commercial calves at the sale barn, doing our part for price discovery, and I know I drive the sale barn guys nuts. I tend to argue with them a little bit . They love to sort the red calves off, and then they'll go even deeper and sort off the black calves with too much feathering; they'll get pulled into a different pen. Having small pens that have been sorted out is kind of the kiss of death and when you're selling in a live auction like that; you really don't want that sort; you know that price is just gonna collapse. So, I would fight with them to try to get 'em to leave the reds in. Sometimes I would win. It was

just always this dance with those guys every time. So, we saw this Black Hereford thing and thought we could still be getting that heterosis mix on our herd and pulling in those Hereford qualities we love and not have to fight the sale barn guys. It was at that point we just jumped in. There weren't a whole lot of bulls on the market at the time; the genetic base was limited, so we decided to start from the ground floor, making F1s with the Angus and Hereford genetics that we really believe in. It's been a little slower going, doing it that way, but the proof is in our calves.

D: Excellent. Then how soon after you started doing this did you say, wow, we did the right thing?

Jennifer: I always did. No . Some of our Angus genetics come from a local producer here in the Sandhills, TD Angus. They do an annual feed test yearly for calves sired by their bulls. The first year of the test, we said, why not? We were still 600 miles away, but we figured we’d throw a pen of calves on the trucks and ship 'em out to Nebraska and see how they feed. We had no idea what our calves did beyond the sale barn, and as a rancher, you always wonder. So, we threw 'em out there just kind of on a whim, and lo and behold, we won the yield grade test! Then we did it again the next year and won again. It was really fun to watch all of these Angus producers squirm a little when the award went to some calves with white faces .

D: Fantastic, what did TD Angus think of this?

Jennifer: They laughed, mostly. Trey Wasserburger knows it’s his Angus breeding that's in there. So, it's a testament to both ends of it. It’s just been super powerful for us as producers to be able to see that carcass data and know where we're at, what we're doing great at, what needs improvement.

D: Oh, I bet. So then, was it different looking out there through your window and seeing all these white faces after a while?

Jennifer: It's calving season that gets me. I love Black Herefords, but something about the little red babies is so cute. Right? So now, with calving season, there's nothing red out here anymore. But it's a hundred percent worth not to have to fight for the same paycheck for the same genetics based on hide color.

D: Right. So, let's come back to that hide color question. Black is a winner all the time, at least according to everybody these days. However, we’ve seen a rise in Hereford prices in the last year or so, and we love to see that too.

Jennifer: I know Certified Angus Beef drives some red producers nuts, but it has done an amazing job for all producers, not just Angus. What they have done should be studied and taught to every breed association and in marketing classes at every university. They single-handedly increased the demand for beef, not just Angus beef. But one side effect of it was this massive demand for black hide, and they moved the entire industry in that direction. Like it or not, it’s the market we operate in. Color matters.

D: Yes, true. I agree that the CAB folks are probably the smartest people in the business.

Jennifer: One of the things I love about how they did it was that they didn't tear anyone else down. There wasn’t any of the “Angus is better than X”. It was just “Angus beef is great”. I've always really admired that in their marketing, but it shifted everything. Because of that, it became a race to figure out how we capture that market premium but still reap the benefits of heterosis in our calves.

D: Interesting. So now, do you find people have been relatively offended by the fact that you have moved from red to black?

Jennifer: It’s been 13 years now, so I get laughed at a little less than I used to, but it used to be an awful lot. Many of those old-time line-one Hereford breeders are just appalled by what we’re doing and probably always will be. But in general, we see more acceptance with the younger generations who are starting to make those breeding decisions. Most of our Black Hereford buyers are looking to break out of tradition. If you look at agriculture as the big picture, the younger generation that is coming up (and only in Ag do we consider 40 still the younger generation on its way up, right?) but that up-and-coming younger generation is beginning to realize that they can’t market like Grandpa did. They can’t run their businesses like Grandpa did because it's not the same world anymore. The markets just aren’t the same as they used to be. If your marketing plan still looks the same as it did 60 years ago, you're leaving a lot of money on the table. The people who get that are the ones who understand Black Herefords.

D: Yes. The quiet ones make the world go round. Jennifer: Yep. Black Herefords have taught me

to have thick skin. It requires a lot of education for people to understand what it is. I’m willing to be called silly names if it means that I can also promote something I believe in. I like to ask Hereford people if they think Noah took a purebred Hereford onto the Ark and if that's where all our cattle came from. Hey, every breed comes from somewhere !

D: Love it. OK, introduce us to your family.

Jennifer: My husband Logan and I are the primary operators. His parents live nearby and are still occasionally involved. They love coming out for brandings. We have two kids, Addie is 14 and Cooper is 12. They're heavily involved in the operation.

D: What are they good at? Strengths & weaknesses.

Jennifer: Both kids are so great about doing the hard work. There’s been times when we didn’t have a crew and probably could’ve used one, and every time they step up and amaze me. Addie is an excellent horsewoman. I've never seen somebody that connects with horses and really all the animals like she does. Cooper is a numbers guy.

Last year I had to go down to town for an accountant's meeting that he wound up getting dragged to. When it was over, he was super pumped and excited, saying that these people talk about numbers and money all day. He thought accounting was the most amazing thing . He’s very interested in the business side of the ranch.

Outside of family, we’ve got a wonderful hand who feels like family. One of the great things we’ve found about ranching in the Sandhills is that everybody is willing to work together. We get together for brandings and help when you’ve got big things happening.

D: So that brings up another question. Can you talk more about your big decision to move to the Sandhills from western Colorado?

Jennifer: Yes, we just passed our second anniversary here in the Sandhills. It was the hardest decision we ever made. The whole family sat down and came to the same conclusions. I don't think any of us have ever had to make such a gut-wrenching choice. My husband was the fifth generation at our place; his family ran so deep there for over a hundred years. They were there before the town was there, and that’s as deep in a community as you can get.

But, at the end of the day we were a federal lands ranch with a large portion of our place on BLM land. So, our land was contiguous, but the private wasn't connected, which is pretty common in the west. The problems with federal lands ranching just kept getting worse and worse every year.

It finally just got to the point where it felt like, as a rancher, you're already fighting so many battles with the rest of the world. Then we also had to fight the feds for every little scrap, and that was rough. We were losing grazing because the BLM tied our hands. We couldn’t manage the land properly. No burns and huge numbers of wild horses. On these big western operations in rough, rough country, it doesn't matter how many AUMs the BLM cuts you down to, you still need the same amount of labor to work that property. You have to cover every inch of ground, whether there are two or 200 cows out there. So, we just kind of hit the breaking point.

Like so much of the US, that land has been

drought-impacted, but that's cyclical, right? You can roll with that. But it's also a wild horse area where they aren't managed, which takes what grass there is.

One of the interesting things about having so many generations on the ranch was having historical knowledge of the land. My father-in-law had all these pictures and stories from his dad and grandpa of the area. He would compare what it looked like 60 years ago to now. It was wild to see how the pinon and juniper trees had really taken over a lot of the range and limited grass production, and that’s because you can't burn anymore. When that land was all Native American, when the first ranchers came through, they burned all the time. Now, you can't do that anymore because everyone's worried about a fire getting out of control. I understand where they're coming from, but without those burns, it becomes so forested and there’s no grass, meaning you’ve drastically increased your fire load. It doesn’t work for the land on any level, for production or fire prevention.

Sometimes, the BLM would tell us they were cutting our grazing, but most of the time, we had already done it; we knew what the range could handle. The BLM rangers aren't out there very often; at least in our area, they weren’t.

D: Yeah the BLM is so mismanaged it’s hilarious. They are just a bunch of kids, and they hire more of their buddies and have no idea what they are

doing. They fire all the experts that used to be on the payroll, and everybody’s as green as possible because it’s trendy and woke. Pun intended.

Jennifer: One of my favorite BLM stories was a big fire we had in 2012. It burned down a border fence between us and a neighbor, way out in the middle of nowhere. I’m sure the federal government spent millions of dollars putting it out. We needed to rebuild the fence. It was a total mess; we’re losing cows back and forth to the neighbor. This is big country, so we’re talking weeks every fall just cleaning that mess up. Well, the fence was on BLM, so of course, there's a bunch of paperwork and studies to get that done, even though we were rebuilding a fence that already existed. We paid for an archeological study to try and speed things up and filed the paperwork to get the BLM to do their NEPA and waited. Every time I asked, we were told it wasn’t a priority. We moved in 2022 before that paperwork had even made it to anyone's desk. All of that, just to rebuild part of a fence.

D: Of course, that brings us to the next question: how did the move go? I can’t imagine that would have been easy, let alone moving to smaller pastures.

Jennifer: Yes, it was challenging on so many levels. We moved three generations of people, five generations of junk, and hundreds cows over 600 miles. We were so exhausted. I think it took me a year to recover .

D: How did you coordinate moving all the cattle?

Jennifer: We did three trucks at a time. My in-laws moved out about a month and a half ahead of us so that they could be here and receive the cows. As we gathered off the winter range; we pregchecked and loaded them up .

D: How did you find the new location?

Jennifer: It was a family that was sizing down and had decided they needed a change, so we did a 1031 exchange to keep it simple. When we were in our window, there were four ranches on the market in the Sandhills. My husband was real set on the Sandhills and that's where we were going. So it was, all right, we got A, B, C, or D. Here we go!

D: Did you end up with your first choice? Also, what made your husband want to go to the Sandhills?

Jennifer: He'd been out here a lot. We've been buying bulls from out here forever. Plus, he had some family that was in the area, and we both fell in love with the idea of a ranching community. When we were in western Colorado, we were an oil field town, so we were kind of the odd man out as the ranchers. When the kids started school there, I had three rules for them. 1.No corral language 2. Don’t pee on a bush at recess 3. Don’t blame the town kids, they don’t know any better. Out here, we don’t need rule #3 because most kids come from similar backgrounds.

D: Next question. Did you have a different career?

Jennifer: I was a public school teacher when we

were first married. So, I have a background in public education. I went back and forth with public education and the ranch for years. When we moved, I told the kids not to tell anybody that I had a teaching license because small districts are always desperate for teachers .

D: They sure are, but I get it. OK next, what do you think about today's cattle industry?

Jennifer: The industry today is full of market consolidation. The packers get the spotlight a lot, but really, we see it from cow-calf all the way up, in every sector. We’ve landed at a time where economies of scale are the name of the game, especially if you’re trying to grow for future generations, like we talked about earlier. But we're also in a time where land prices are outrageous, you know? So, that's the challenge right now. How do you scale up so that you can survive? Especially when you can never pencil out land purchases with cows.

But the things that scare me the most are the threats that we see coming from inside our industry. What we're doing to each other. One of the best examples we see is how some semen companies are moving right now. Recently there was a push in Angus to approve genetically edited semen with improved slick-off genes so it could be sold down south. The more you think through that… so we're gonna send semen to South America where they don't have the regulatory burden that we have, don’t have the cost of production we have, and we're gonna make it easier for them to produce beef that can compete quality-wise with ours? A bunch of money's gonna be made on the semen up front, and then it’s really going to hurt the US producer. That’s an inside threat.

D: Yeah, I know. Everybody we’ve talked to has

Jennifer: Well we're Black Hereford breeders from Colorado living in Nebraska. Being from Colorado now is the same thing as what it was to be from California 20 years ago, plus we traded in our green tractors for orange! We moved into the very insular Sandhills, and for the most part people have been very welcoming, but we are something off the beaten path. But I figure, at some point, they must import somebody that everybody’s not related too . We’re different. I'm very comfortable with people looking at me oddly . Some kids at school comment that Black Herefords aren’t a real thing, but we’re just excited that there are kids at school who know what cows are!

D: Great point! OK, next question, there's a been a lot of ranches closed in the last 20 years. Do you have any suggestions for people on how to keep going in this business?

Jennifer: We're still figuring it out every day, I’m certainly no expert, but one of the things that the move really made us do, and I think made us good at, is looking at every decision very intentionally and filtering it through the lens of, are we doing this cause this is how we've always done it and it's where we're comfortable, or are we doing this because we've researched it, thought it through, gamed it out and we know this is the best decision for the business? I think that the last part is important. It's a business. I know there are a lot of people that love to talk about the lifestyle like that’s enough, and it is a wonderful lifestyle; I wouldn't wanna raise my kids any other way, but it's also business. So, every decision we filter through that lens of ‘is it an intentional choice’ and ‘is it gonna help the business’?

D: Yeah, agreed. It's not a Yellowstone moment; it's real-life and real business. OK, then what would you tell the politicians in Washington if they could hear you?

Jennifer: …go away… Seriously, we've

seen the feds, we lived with the feds. We know what happens when the feds get involved in things. We are deep believers in non-federal intervention as much as possible. Reducing regulations on even the low-hanging fruit, like direct-to-consumer, would be an easy start in cutting back regulations.

D: I agree. Being woke is destroying our whole population from the inside. With that said, do you have any suggestions for local governments that you deal with, past or present?

Jennifer: I’ve always thought that the county sheriff has a lot more power than he realizes. He’s on our side, but I think he can do a lot more than he does. The county sheriff is the guy who can be the backstop against all those laws and regulations that are impeding on our rights. I would love to see communities empower their county sheriffs.

D: Great point. OK, how about something tasty, like what’s your favorite cut of beef?

Jennifer: Oh…the mom in me says a solid pot roast . I can throw it in the crockpot, and I don't have to worry about it. Then I'm not grouchy at six o'clock when everybody's demanding dinner. But, I'm definitely a prime rib girl. Medium Rare.

D: Great point. OK, how about something tasty, like what’s your favorite cut of beef?

Jennifer: Oh…the mom in me says a solid pot roast . I can throw it in the crockpot, and I don't have to worry about it. Then I'm not grouchy at six o'clock when everybody's demanding dinner. But, I'm definitely a prime rib girl. Medium Rare.

D: Perfect. Next question, do you support any industry organizations that you like?

Jennifer: We've always been really involved in our local level Cattlemen's. I think they do a ton of good for people. When we were in Colorado, we were very involved there. We're now in Nebraska Cattlemen's; I see a lot of good from the state-level organizations. Years ago, we were highly involved in NCBA, but we have pulled back a bit in

the last few years. It's not about policy decisions or some of the stances they've taken, because if you look at all three major organizations, they’ve all made some interesting policy decisions. I don’t think I’ll ever find a group that I agree with a hundred percent of the time. But it was more an overall feeling that these Cattlemen's advocacy groups have almost become their own micro-industry. There’s a lot of inter-industry mud-slinging between the national organizations, and I get it; everyone feels like they're fighting for our survival. Meanwhile the organizations themselves are cashing membership and sponsor checks, creating their own econ-

These days, it sure feels like it's a for-profit,

Agreed, and very well said.

Then there’s the trade shows that are outrageous. You know, asking ranchers to pay $500 to walk around your trade show is insane. The other thing I've seen is a real lack of a deep-held philosophy they hold, and with consistency. They all like to bemoan the feds, right? They'll all say we don't want federal government interaction until it's their pet project. Whether it's MCOOL or EID tags or whatever the topic of the moment is, they're suddenly okay with government intervention. I really struggle with that lack of consistency in their philosophy, and that applies to every single one of them.

D: Yeah, Beef Checkoff comes to mind as well. What do you think about it?

Jennifer: I think that beef checkoff doesn't break my bottom line. If the funds that you pay to Checkoff are the difference between being in the

red or black, you've got a lot of other issues. So, I don't lose sleep over it. That said, it's not how I would market beef.

D: Yeah, they spend money within the industry but they need to spend it outside the industry. That's why there's so much negativity surrounding their organization. They could learn a thing or two from the CAB folks.

Jennifer: Yes. I shouldn't be seeing their ads.

D: OK, let's talk about your Private Treaty sale that's approaching.

Jennifer: We’ll start marketing bulls in March. Once we've got our official pictures up and ready, I try to hold off selling until then.

We're in an interesting climate for selling bulls. The US cow herd is down. A lot of big sales are super early now. and there’s a lot of guys that don’t pull herd bulls off the range until late, then realize something didn’t winter well. That's one of the beautiful things about private treaties, you can be that source that's waiting in the background saying…I still got you.

D: Where do you see yourself in 10 years?

Jennifer: I better be here. I'm never moving ever again. Nope.

D: Okay, that's fair. Obviously, the kids would be more involved with the ranch or leaving for college.

Jennifer: Yeah. They will be grown, and they better be out by then. They'll be adults. That's weird to think about. I would love to be even more diversified, making more room for the kids. The only way to really add generations is to add enterprises.

D: Do you have any advice for up-and-coming ranchers? We’ve been getting phone calls since a

dozen or so breed organizations recommend our magazine as a “must-read” these days, and we’ll get calls for advice and where they can turn for more experience and/or mentorship, internship, etc.

Jennifer: This is only gonna be relevant to people who have a family ranch, but have the hard conversations and have them now. Everyone needs to know what their role is and what their plan is for the future. Sure, it can be painful in the middle of the discussion, but if you don’t, things will be way uglier 20 years from now.

D: Yes, so true. OK, let’s talk about your Podcast. First, I find it fascinating that you have time to do all that you do, let alone a podcast. Plus, I can see that it’s getting more attention every day.

I host the Black Hereford Chronicles. We've been going about a year and a half, about 50 episodes in. It’s been an interesting program, and I started with a very niche audience. They are so loyal! Seeing how much Black Hereford breeders have supported this show has been humbling. One thing that has really surprised me is how it’s picked up outside of Black Herefords. It runs as part of the Burning Daylight show as well. Side note, I always tell people Burnin Daylight is a great show but don't listen with little ears around .

D: No kidding! But what an advantage to help you reach new listeners.

Jennifer: Partnering with them really expanded my audience. The beautiful thing about that is that it's introducing the Black Herford breed to all sorts of people who otherwise wouldn't have that information in front of them. The show has been so much fun because it gives me an excuse to ask people who are way smarter than me to sit down and let

me bother them with questions. It's amazing they say yes .

I've really had some interesting conversations. I had Jerald Callahan, who was the CEO of Express Ranches, who just passed away recently. We talked about the difference between club cattle and commercial cattle, and that is such a hot topic, right? That gets people so mad. But I got the guru who does both so well. It was absolutely a blast.

D: Do you happen to know what the percentage is as far as Black Hereford breeders that are listening to you?

Jennifer: At this point, I'm probably about a third of Black Hereford breeders and two-thirds outside. Most episodes are not specific to Black Her efords. I talk to all sorts of researchers. I just did an in-depth EPD discussion with the guys at IGS. Leoma Wells, the Data Genie, comes on, and we talk about the different ways to look at data, manage it, and interpret some of it. So I really try to cover a wide swath of the industry.

There's also a little inside baseball. Occasional ly, I talk about issues within the breed, like should F1s get to play in our show rings?

D: What a talent you have with people. Let me ask if you know how the numbers have grown regarding Black Hereford breeders nationwide.

Jennifer: Membership has definitely been growing. The southeast is super-hot right now. We have a lot of people who are new to the industry and have decided to dip their toes into this, and they're hungry for information. That's why the podcast has been successful. Some of the trends probably exist in other breeds too, but it's more obvious in a smaller breed.

D: Great. Let’s turn the conversation back again to your production sale in the near future, what do you think you’ll need to change and/or add to your program? Also, do you have space that you could use as a sale barn?

Jennifer: We’ve got facilities. When we were in Colorado, we were very limited on how much we could grow our registered herd. We were so spread out, and that made it hard to do it the way we felt it needed to be done. We believe in data collection and helping buyers make bull decisions with their eyes wide open. To be there at calving, get the birth weights, get the yearling weights, to be able to really monitor what makes a registered

cow a registered cow, we just weren’t set up for it. So, when we moved, we decided it was a great opportunity to chase that passion. Go big or go home, right?

D: Okay, I’m excited for you guys. Does this mean you’re 1, 2, 3 years away from a production sale?

Jennifer: Feasibly, we could get away with it in two years. I don't know for sure yet. I wanna make sure we've got the interest in the market and the butts in the seats before we tackle that. The customers we have right now have been so loyal, and I love them. We’ve got customers that come back year after year and buy 5 or 6 bulls. They are great. In some ways, though, that creates a tricky problem. It’s harder to grow new customers when your current ones buy everything! But I wouldn’t trade them for the world.

Yeah. Take the money when it's there. So, it’s a first-world problem. So how many bulls are you going to have up for sale?

With the cow inventory way down and the market way up, we decided this was a good year to get a little weird and see what these genetics will do. We took a big left turn from what a lot of seed stock guys do. We decided we were not feeding a lick of grain to our bulls this year until they were yearlings. That is not normal, I know. But we figured this is the year to really see what our genetics are capable of. We've finally settled; we've been here for two years, so the adjustment that's gonna happen to the new environment has happened. It’s given us the chance to see what really has grit and what doesn’t, then cull accordingly. That’s our thing, “Cattle with Grit.” We really work to provide genetics that will perform, even in the hard years. So, anything that looked at us funny and that didn't gain right, this was the year to test it all and prove our grit. A lot of bulls have grown so big, so quickly that there are structural and longevity issues that flow from that. We really want to avoid that. It might bite me in the butt because there’s truth to the saying, “Cowboys say they don’t want fat bulls, but they sure pay for them.” But if ever the market was right to try, it’s now.

These are the best, most consistent bulls we’ve ever put together. They are gritty. And next year, we’ll have 40 of their siblings available.