LadyJustice Ingrid Simler

Lady Justice Ingrid Simler

Dame Ingrid Ann Simler, DBE, The Rt. Hon. Lady Justice Simler is a Judge of the Court of Appeal of England and Wales. She is the lead Judge for Diversity. At the Bar Dame Ingrid was recognised for her expertise across a range of areas including employment law, tax litigation, public and administrative law, and human rights. Here she talks to Modern Insurance about her career and passion for equality, diversity and inclusion.

QTell us a little bit about yourown experiences joining the profession and how it’s changed since then?

AI was a barrister for many years before becoming a judge. However, I started my career at a common law set where I did a little bit of everything to begin with. Progressively I got onto the Government Treasury panels, which enabled me to specialise and experience new areas of work. I became a specialist in employment, public law, and tax litigation.

I was appointed the standing counsel for HMRC in 2002, which was fantastically interesting, though sometimes scary! Then in 2006 I took silk, which meant doing a lot more appellate work in the Court of Appeal and often in the Supreme Court. There came a point for me where, having been a member of the Bar Council and chaired the Bar Council’s Equality and Diversity Committee challenging the lack of diversity in the judiciary, I felt I had to put my hat in the ring. So I applied to be a judge in 2013. I didn’t expect to get it, but I did and I became a judge in the Queen’s Bench Division which deals with work across the whole spectrum of the law, from the most serious criminal trials, murder trials, and serious sexual offences, to contractual disputes, to judicial review challenges to public authorities and government, and sitting occasionally in the Court of Appeal.

In 2018, I was promoted to the Court of Appeal, however I didn’t take up my role until June 2019. By statute, the number of places in the Court of Appeal is limited, as is the High Court, so you can only have 38 judges in the Court of Appeal. I had to wait for Sir Brian Leveson to retire and I stepped into his shoes. Sitting in the Court of Appeal brought further variety of work and, in addition to all the other areas of work, I’m now dealing with appeals from cases in family matters and cases in what would traditionally be called the Chancery Division, now the Business and Property court. It’s hugely varied, interesting, challenging, and actually a huge privilege. The most amazing thing for me is that having had a wonderful career at the Bar, I had the opportunity when turning 50 to start a whole new career, which has been equally amazing so far and I have no doubt will continue to be. Rather than this being an icing on the cake career situation, it feels as if it were a whole new career. Although I‘m still dealing with the law, and I’m still in court, sitting on the other side of the bench is a very different experience to fighting the case for your client. There are different pressures, different responsibilities, and it’s surprising how different the experience is. I also thought, prior to becoming a judge, that it must be very lonely but I was very wrong about that. It’s been collegiate and my fellow judges are supportive, friendly, and obviously very intelligent.

QCan you share with us anyparticular challenges during yourcareer?

AFrom a gender perspective, there have been huge challenges during that time - despite the huge strides being made, I don’t think they have all been resolved. When I was called to the Bar in 1987, the numbers of men and women were pretty close to equal at entry level. That applies to the solicitor side of the profession too. The difficulty is the attrition rate; when you look at the number of women at partner and QC level for the Bar, the female representation is significantly reduced. I think 16% of women are QCs, whereas for

Collaboration between the different parts of the legal sector is imperative if we’re going to achieve a better and more diverse representation of different people in the judiciary

solicitors it’s 33% of partners in smaller firms and 29% in larger firms. I would suggest that’s largely a consequence of women having to balance their wish to have families and careers, and they either choose to leave altogether or choose to go into an area, or a job, that they see as more family friendly. That I see as the main challenge.

The Bar is a self-employed profession. When I started, there was no obligation on chambers to make arrangements permitting women to return after maternity leave, to provide them with any sort of support during that period, or to do anything to accommodate their different needs. That has changed immensely both at the Bar and on the solicitor side but I think the challenge is to ensure that the working environment and the culture, which was never designed to accommodate the needs of women, changes to meet their different needs.

Another thing I benefited from, and we need to ensure this happens more often, is the huge degree of sponsorship I received both from men in my chambers, and women, although there weren’t as many of them. In general I think men get a higher level of sponsorship than women and we need to redress that imbalance so that talented women receive encouragement and support, and are considered when opportunities arise.

QYou are one of the fewwomen to head a barristers’ set at the UK Bar and you were the first woman to be appointed President of the EmploymentAppeal Tribunal since its creation; what has it been like to be a female professional paving the wayin the sector?

AMostly it’s been irrelevant that I’m a woman. The two areas of law that I’ve worked in were very different. Employment is quite female dominated. There are many women solicitors and a lot of women barristers, and I had no sense that I was a minority. Tax litigation was different. There were very few women solicitors on the litigation side then, though that has probably changed now as it’s such an attractive area of law. But then, I was constantly against male QCs and other male barristers, and in front of male judges. There were many occasions when it felt like I was the only woman in the courtroom!

…absolutely everybody, who has the intellectual ability and desire, should see the legal profession as open to all, whatever their protected characteristics might be

That can be a little unsettling and intimidating. Nothing that anybody did was conscious or deliberate but there was a sense of not being part of this gentlemen’s club. So, I put on my mask and pretended – and I was quite good at that. After a little while I forgot about it, the case started, I got into my stride and it all went very well - or badly - but it had nothing to do with gender.

There were a few occasions when I felt that I was poorly treated because I was a woman. Once, when I was appealing from the upper tier tribunal tax to the Chancery Division, the judge gave me very short shrift. He wasn’t interested in anything I had to say and eventually the hearing came to an end. I was quite cross and my male QC opponent said that if I wanted to complain he would support me. I didn’t complain but I did appeal to the Court of Appeal and won. At the time I thought it had been an issue because I was a woman, but afterwards male colleagues said they’d had similar experiences with the same judge and it had nothing to do with gender.

I really can’t point to anything in my career where I felt that I was held back by being a woman, or treated differently by being a woman, apart from that occasional sense of being the only one in the courtroom! And the answer to that is you just get on with it!

QYou are a huge advocate for equality, diversityand inclusion; although much has been done to create a more inclusive sector, what more can be done –and is furthercollaboration the answer?

ACollaboration between the different parts of the legal sector is imperative if we’re going to achieve a better and more diverse representation in the judiciary. That’s partly because the judiciary is a feeder career, it’s a second career, and the pool that we fish in for our appointments is the legal sector: solicitors, the Bar, CILEx, and legal academics. Now, if those areas don’t produce a diverse pool at the top, that’s inevitably going to dictate who feeds through into the judiciary.

There are a large number of outreach programmes run by the Judicial Office in conjunction with the Judicial Appointments Commission, or with The Law Society, the Bar, or CILEx, depending on who we’re trying to reach out to. Doing this together is a much more effective means of reaching out to more diverse groups. We have many support programmes for people wanting to come into the judiciary from non-traditional backgrounds. We have various other programmes, including schools engagement programmes, where we reach out to schools

I was constantly against male QCs and other male barristers, and in front of male judges. There were many occasions when it felt like I was the only woman in the courtroom

to inspire girls and children from different minority ethnic backgrounds with visits from Diversity and Community Relations Judges. We have a Pre-application Judicial Education (PAJE) Programme which is targeted at lawyers from under-represented groups to give them the support and confidence to apply for judicial roles.

So, yes, collaboration is essential and we need to do more to ensure that we are focusing on the best programmes to achieve the best results.

QFollowing the success of diversityinitiatives over the last decade, what targets would you prioritise forthe next ten years?

AI had always thought that once you reach 25% representation that’s the tipping point and that things will continue to go in the right direction. I’m still hoping that’s the case. In almost every area of the senior judiciary, and the circuit, we are well into the 20-30s percentages – and 40% in tribunals – for gender balance and we must continue to run the programmes to ensure that level of diversity is retained and increases.

We must also focus on black and minority ethnic representation, social mobility and people with other different protected characteristics. A couple of weeks ago, the Master of the Rolls spoke at an LGBTQ event. The strong message from the panel was that everybody who has the intellectual ability and desire, should see the legal profession as open to all - whatever their protected characteristics might be. My priority now is to see the same or a similar shift in representation for black and minority ethnic, social mobility and LGBTQ+ groups as has occurred for women.

QWhat advice would you give to women who are walking the path of empowerment to become the lawyers and barristers of tomorrow?

AIt might sound obvious, but there’s no getting away from the fact that it’s a career that requires very hard work. However, it’s an incredibly fulfilling career and one that, if you are prepared to work hard, produces huge rewards in terms of intellectual satisfaction and fulfilment. It can be achieved while balancing family life. I have four, now grown up, children and I don’t think they suffered from me being a working mum. So I would say to young women that they have to take responsibility for owning and driving their careers. Nobody else is going to do that for you. You must make the most of every opportunity that comes along. Make the piece of work that you’re asked to do, or the project that you’re invited to work on, the best work you can do because that’s how you create a network of supportive colleagues. Part of a successful career is having a wide network of those who know and respect you, and who will encourage, support and recommend you and so become a source of work. It’s what my pupil master used to call ‘creating a virtuous circle’ – and I like that term.

The Rt. Hon. LadyJustice Simler is a judge of the Court of Appeal of England and Wales.

My priority now is to see the same, or a similar, shift in representation for black and minority ethnic, social mobility and LGBTQ+ groups as has occurred for women