Music Business UK – Q1 2022 by musicbizworldwide

Q1 2022

ARTISTS THINK IT’S ALL ABOUT THEM. IT IS.

In this issue... 14

Caroline Elleray & Mark Gale

Ben Lovett

The BRIT Awards 2022

Fraser T Smith

Producer

Natasha Mann

Universal Music UK

Rich Castillo

Atlantic Records UK

Fred Again

Ashley Page

Page 1

Sophie Kennard & Becci Abbott Black

Frame

Second Songs

TVG Hospitality

Producer

Contributors ADRIAN SYKES

Adrian Sykes is a widely-respected UK music industry veteran, having made key contributions to the history of Island and MCA over the past four decades. He is also a successful entrepreneur and manager, having founded Decisive Management – which looked after Emeli Sandé before, and throughout, her multiplatinum debut album campaign.

JACK NEEDHAM

Jack Needham is the Senior Staff Writer for both Music Business Worldwide and Music Business UK. Needham has written for the likes of The Guardian, the BBC and Mixmag, and was previously freelance Staff Writer for tech and culture publication Wired. In this issue of MBUK, Jack interviews British music production royalty, Fraser T. Smith.

ANIQUE COX

Anique Cox is the manager of BRIT Award-nominated Bree Runway, and a member of the Music Managers Forum’s 2022 Accelerator Programme. Prior to entering talent management, Cox worked at labels such as Island and EMI. In this issue, Cox discusses what she’d wished she’d known about the music business earlier in her career.

MARK SUTHERLAND

Mark Sutherland has been covering the music business for over 25 years. He is a Variety columnist and writes for publications including Rolling Stone and Kerrang!. He was previously Editor of UK trade title Music Week. In this issue of MBUK, Mark pens our lead interview with Caroline Elleray and Mark Gale, the co-founders of Second Songs.

EAMONN FORDE

Eamonn Forde has been writing about all areas of the music business since 2001. He regularly writes for IQ, The Guardian, The Big Issue, Q, Music Business Worldwide and The Quietus among other titles. He completed his PhD at University of Westminster in 2001. His latest book, Leaving the Building: The Lucrative Afterlife of Musical Estates, is out now.

RHIAN JONES

Rhian Jones is a successful writer who often focuses on the music industry. In addition to writing regularly for MBUK and Hits Daily Double, she is a Contributing Editor for Music Business Worldwide. In this issue, Rhian interviews the founder of Page 1 Management, Ashley Page, and Frame Artists’ Sophie Kennard and Becci Abbott Black.

CONGRATULATIONS TO OUR 5 BRIT AWARD WINNERS

HOLLY HUMBERSTONE - RISING STAR SAM FENDER - BEST ROCK / ALTERNATIVE ACT BECKY HILL - BEST DANCE ACT OLIVIA RODRIGO - INTERNATIONAL SONG OF THE YEAR BILLIE EILISH - INTERNATIONAL ARTIST OF THE YEAR

WELCOME

EDITOR’S LETTER You’re a British talent manager looking after an artist who suddenly skyrockets to fame and glory. I’m not just talking about a fleeting UK Top 10, either: I’m talking Grammy wins, streams in the billions, a global arena tour. What do you do next? For some British managers, the answer is expand... with precision and caution. Jonathan Dickins and September Management, for example, had a handful of enviable clients (Jamie T, Paul Epworth) before Adele blasted her career (and to a lesser extent, her management company) into the commercial stratosphere. It would have been shallow but lucrative at this stage for Dickins to use Adele as a calling card to lure a bunch of lesser melismatic pop stars to September. He didn’t. Instead, while ensuring that her 30-ness retained all the focus she needed, September began carefully reinvesting its Adele proceeds into hand-picked development projects – building robust live fan bases for artists who are now major successes, from Rex Orange County to Glass Animals (the latter managed by September’s Amy Morgan). Another UK management company that has trodden an even more pragmatic (nay tentative), path of expansion is Stuart Camp’s Grumpy Old Management. Grumpy was formed when Camp amicably split from his employer, Rocket Music, in 2018, taking superstar client (and best mate) Ed Sheeran with him. By that stage, Sheeran’s Shape Of You was already Spotify’s biggest track ever; the redheaded troubadour’s place in music’s superstar league looked unshakable. Yet Camp didn’t rush towards bulking up his roster. Instead, he continued to focus, almost singularly, on his biggest client. Eventually, supported by ex-Warner exec Gaby Cawthorne, Grumpy struck sensible partnerships with external talent managers, bringing the likes of Maisie Peters and Griff into the company’s roster.

Tim Ingham

“Without Dua Lipa, can TaP now rely on artists like Lana Del Rey and Dermot Kennedy to fuel a global business that meets the ambition of its founders?”

It has been an altogether brisker trajectory for TaP Management. The company, co-founded by Ed Millett and ex-lawyer Ben Mawson, started out managing Lana Del Rey, before adding Dua Lipa to its roster eight years ago – when Lipa was quite literally working as a waitress in a cocktail bar. Many of the ingredients for Lipa’s success since that point (this being the artist with the US’s biggest track of last year, remember) should be credited to TaP, whether that’s picking the right label home (Warner Records), or ensuring that TaP itself had a strong presence in the US – enabling more direct influence on DSP gatekeepers. Amid Lipa’s rise, TaP expanded with aggression: It now has offices in the US, UK, Germany and Australia; it runs both an independent record label, and a publishing company (to which Lipa is signed). And in the middle of pandemic 2020, TaP launched a global sports talent agency, TaP Sports. It’s even taken on the daunting task of finding, and breaking, a 2022 Eurovision entry for Britain. With the shock news that Dua Lipa has now departed TaP, the company finds itself at a crossroads. Can it rely on its other artists, including Del Rey and Dermot Kennedy – to financially fuel a worldwide business that meets the fierce ambition of its co-founders? Could new additions to the TaP roster (recent rumours suggest London Grammar may be one) help reinvigorate the company in the post-Dua era? Or will a degree of right-sizing now be necessary, as TaP looks to rebuild itself up to the kind of scale to which it’s become accustomed? Meanwhile, we shouldn’t forget that Adele, Ed Sheeran and fellow British US-conquerer Sam Smith all have something in common: to date, each of them has stuck with the same manager/s who supported them through their early days. With her split from TaP, Dua Lipa has now broken that pattern. Just like her ex-management company, she too faces the unknown.

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Photo: Alamy / PA Images

Jamal Edwards collecting his Member of the British Empire (MBE) at Buckingham Palace in March 2015

TRIBUTE

JAMAL EDWARDS MBE 1990-2022

n Sunday, February 20, 2022, it was confirmed that Jamal Edwards, SBTV’s widely respected – and seemingly universally liked – founder, had tragically passed away at the age of 31. Edwards’ mother, Brenda Edwards, subsequently disclosed that her son had died of a sudden illness. It’s difficult to quantify the huge impact that Jamal Edwards and his influential youth media brand has had, not just on the modern British music industry, but on global popular culture. Edwards founded SBTV in 2006 when he was just 15, naming it after his own MC name, Smokey Barz. It went on to help launch the careers of many of the UK’s brightest stars – many of whom have gone on to become some of the market’s biggest cultural exports. SBTV started with Edwards uploading videos to YouTube of his friends rapping, after he received a camera as a Christmas present. The brand that grew from the SBTV channel quickly became one of the UK’s key new music discovery platforms. In 2014, Edwards’ influence was recognised with an MBE for services to music. Just some of the British rappers-turned household names championed by Edwards and SBTV over the years include Stormzy, Skepta and Dave. SBTV also showcased the talent of artists like Jessie J, Rita Ora and Ed Sheeran early on in their career trajectories. Sheeran, for example, delivered a memorable rendition of his hit You Need Me, I Don’t Need You for SBTV back in 2010 on his acoustic guitar. “EVERYTHING was recorded on the spot LIVE,” reads the video’s caption. “Loop pedal business.” Five years later, that same loop pedal business saw Sheeran perform three nights at Wembley Stadium, to 80,000 fans each evening. SBTV’s role in his rise is unquestionable. In a statement published on Instagram in the days following the news of Edwards’ passing, Sheeran wrote: “Jamal is my brother. His light shone so bright. He only used it to illuminate others and never asked for anything in return.” Added Sheeran: “A star’s light shines for millions of years after they go, and his will continue to light up every dark moment, we are all witnessing his power. I would not be here without him, professionally and personally. There will never be anything close to what he is, but I’m so grateful to have existed within his orbit. My brother, come on.” Other artists to pay tribute to Edwards in the wake of his passing included Dave, who tweeted: “Thank you for everything. Words can’t explain.” AJ Tracey added that Edwards had achieved “west London legend status”. n

Photo: James Barnes for Music Business UK

LEAD FEATURE

SECOND NATURE Caroline Elleray and Mark Gale made their name as A&R extraordinaires working with artists like Coldplay, The xx and Little Simz during nearly two decades at Universal Music Publishing. Now the married couple are launching their own venture, Second Songs, in partnership with Sony Music Publishing…

he music business might have gotten used to working remotely in the last couple of years, but for at least one industry duo, home has always been where the art is. Over 20 years, Caroline Elleray and Mark Gale – partners in life and work – have forged a golden reputation as spotters and developers of songwriting talent. And, despite holding down senior roles at Universal Music Publishing UK for most of that time – Elleray as SVP, A&R and Gale as VP, International/A&R – they’ve never been afraid to get away from the office. So, when Rex Orange County wasn’t a fan of major music company environments, they courted him in their South West London abode. Bastille songwriter Dan Smith – another Universal signing – became a regular visitor to their kitchen. And, having both left Universal in 2021, even the HQ for their new publishing and management venture, Second Songs – while just down the road from their actual residence – feels more like a cosy family home than a gleaming corporate edifice. Memorabilia from their stunningly successful careers – which have encompassed signing the likes of Coldplay, Keane, Chvrches, The xx and Little Simz and, in Elleray’s case, very nearly becoming Oasis’ manager – lines the walls. And they proudly point out the sofa where their latest signing, Scottish singer-songwriter Blair Davie, first sat to wow them and his now-agent Jon Ollier of One Fiinix Live with his heartfelt anthems (Davie is now managed by Natasha Gregory and Mark Bent at Mother Artists). Despite Davie’s obvious talent – the new song Elleray and Gale can’t wait to play MBUK as soon as our interview ends, produced by Second Songs management client Steph Marziano (for whom they’re on the verge of sealing a publishing deal with a leading indie) sounds like an instantly beguiling hit – the artist and his songwriting partner Kyle Fummey are the sort of gutinstinct signings that might not attract the attention of a datafixated major music giant. “I can understand why it would be difficult for a corporation to sign this boy,” sighs Elleray. “He’s a young lad from Perth and 15

there is nothing going on yet, there are no streams, but in our opinion he is a world class artist.” Second Songs is the vehicle whereby Elleray and Gale – also involved with music industry mentoring programme In The Loop – can put their money where their mouths are. In partnership with the might of Sony Music Publishing, following an introduction by Elton John/Ed Sheeran business manager Jim Doyle, Second represents a best-of-both-worlds set-up for the duo: the muscle to be competitive, with the liberty to follow their intuition. “We wanted more freedom to do things how we want to do them,” grins Gale. “Already in the first couple of months we’ve been able to engage with both people we used to work with and with some new people, and have a lot more flexibility.” Elleray and Gale are an intriguing study in complementary styles. Elleray wears her heart on her sleeve (and Rex Orange County socks on her feet), while Gale plays his cards close to his chest. She admits to being disorganised, while he’s across all the details. It’s a combination that has won them countless admirers in the business. “Caroline and Mark are the kindest and most attentive in the game,” Caius Pawson, founder of the Young record label, tells MBUK. “We spent a beautiful 10 years working together on The xx and whoever gets to work with them for the next 10 years has a lot to look forward to.” “Mark and Caroline are the most focused and talented publishers,” agrees superstar songwriter Jin Jin. “I’ve been so lucky to work with them both from the very start of my career and I have truly been on the most amazing journey with them.” “I couldn’t be prouder, happier, or more excited to see what Caroline and Mark achieve with Second Songs,” adds Bastille manager Estelle Wilkinson. “They are the best there is; they spot early, nurture gently, encourage and sit with you through thick and thin – I cannot wait to watch them fly!” No wonder Elleray, having worked with Coldplay since the very beginning, will continue to work with Chris Martin and co as a creative consultant (the band’s publishing remains with Universal). “Caroline and Mark have the best ears in the music business, not to mention the biggest hearts,” says Coldplay’s co-manager and creative director, Phil Harvey. “Their pure love of music shines through in everything they do. Coldplay have been incredibly lucky to have them at the heart of our songwriting and music-making since 1999. It’s impossible to imagine life without them.” For their part, Elleray and Gale maintain that they are “very ambitious – but more on behalf of the people we look after than ourselves”. But it’s clear, as they settle down with MBUK over tea and mini-croissants, that the crowded world of music publishing has a new, very serious player, both home and away…

So how does it feel to be out in the wild after so many years at Universal Music Publishing? Caroline Elleray: It’s a leap of faith. We want to do things the way we used to, which was find talent very early, be passionate about it and try to persuade everyone else to be as passionate as us. Because it does feel like, at the corporations, there’s a lot of pressure to sign things that are successful on TikTok and that’s never been necessarily [what we do]. Did you not already have the freedom to sign who you wanted? Mark Gale: Funnily enough, when we had one of the first conversations with [Sony Music Publishing bosses] Tim Major, David Ventura and Jon Platt at Sony they said, ‘We trust you’ and we were like, ‘Wow – we’ve not actually had that an awful lot’. That was a really powerful thing for them to say, and so far that’s exactly what they’ve done.

“We’ve never sat there and slagged off a competitor. If you get to that stage, you’ve lost it already.”

What will be different about the way you work at Second Songs? MG: We’ve got all this experience, but a whole lot of bandwidth as well. We’re used to having big teams and big rosters and suddenly we’re out on our own and we’ve got all this time and enthusiasm.

CE: When you’re in a big position at a company you don’t have the time to connect with everyone; you leave it to the sync department or international department. Now we can contact all those music supervisors we know and the contacts we’ve amassed over the years. At the moment we’ve only got one writer to send them, so he’s going to get attention I guess! Do you miss Universal? CE: Yeah, there are people there we’ve worked with since we started. But there are also people we’ve known for 20 years at Sony. We’re familiar with the A&R team, they’ve been adversaries in the past, but now they’re part of our gang. They’re massive allies now, it’s exciting. MG: From the first meeting, there was a really good balance of ambition, but also professionalism. Everything they promised they followed up on immediately afterwards and that’s what we needed, that support network. CE: And they’re massive! MG: Yeah, the international thing is essential. If you haven’t got an office in Nashville or South America or Australia, then you’re up against it. How will it feel the first time you’re up against your old colleagues for a deal?

LEAD FEATURE

Blair Davie

Photo: Alexandra-Waespi

Rex Orange County

CE: It’ll be conflicting, but we’d probably go for different things anyway. And I want every member of that A&R team to succeed and eventually be bosses, because they’re fantastic at their jobs, because we trained them! MG: In any case, never in 20 years have we ever sat there and slagged off a competitor. If you get to that stage, you’ve lost it already. And what we offer is quite different now: we’re two experienced publishers, but with plenty of time to focus on the people we’re working with. How often do you disagree with each other? CE: Because we’re husband and wife, people might think it’s a bit weird, but we’ve done it for 18 years and – touch wood! – never fallen out at all! It’s funny but our tastes seem to be very in tune. We signed lots of things together at Universal. If you do disagree, who tends to win the argument? CE: I am still a bit naïve, while Mark’s quite practical so he’ll talk me round like, ‘Oh, don’t do that Caz…’ MG: It is pretty rare though. If there is something we’re not sure on, we talk it out and eventually come to the right decision. CE: He’s not a tyrant, 99 times out of 100 he will gently

persuade me in the right way, because I can be a bit too impulsive. MG: (Laughs) Please don’t make ‘He’s not a tyrant’ the main headline! What made you want to do management as well? MG: Really, it was meeting Steph. I got to know her at Universal and was a big fan. I bumped into her at a show and she said she was looking for management. We’d always had a good connection, so we had a couple of chats and it felt like a really natural fit. It also gives us an opportunity to work with artists and writers that maybe aren’t quite ready for publishing, or are already published. Is the idea to stay a boutique company? MG: We’re not planning to grow too quickly, it’s just based on the music we find that we love. But there’s a lot of music we love at the minute, so that could change fairly quickly! When you’re really passionate about an artist, that shines through more than anything. It’s less about selling them something and more about connection. Everyone knows about your successful signings, but have you ever signed any horrendous flops? MG: (Laughs) Even when someone’s not been commercially 17

Photo: James-Marcus-Haney

Coldplay

successful, there’s still been something we’ve liked about them musically. CE: Jamie N Commons is a good example of someone who’s never sold records particularly, but he turned over £1 million in sync income. I still hope that one day he’ll have a records career, because he has the capability, the voice and the chops. But we genuinely haven’t had many failures. Even though between us we must have signed 100 songwriters, I can’t think of many who haven’t made a living out of it.

CE: We’re just incredibly respectful of their talent and what they can do. We never take that for granted. We haven’t got a magic formula, but we try to always trust in their instincts, rather than think that we can do that better than them. The best writers are also the best editors of what they do. Chris Martin would always ask, ‘Which one do you not like?’ And how do you tell Chris Martin one of his songs is a bit shit? CE: (Laughs) Oh my God, you can’t! Thankfully, he’s never written a bad one!

“We want to sign the writers that Merck [Mercuriadis] will want to sign in 20 years!”

Any signings you’re particularly proud of? CE: Obviously Coldplay. And I was very proud of Keane, because for two years nobody would touch them with a shitty bargepole, basically. When they won two BRIT Awards [in 2005], I stood on one of the balconies bawling my eyes out. I was with the RCA sales team and they were like, ‘What’s wrong with her?’ But we still feel like we’ve got a lot to prove. I want to have those moments again, and I’m quietly fucking determined to have those moments again! You clearly have great relationships with your writers. What’s the key to that? 18

MG: Being honest in your relationships with people is always really helpful. But it’s more of a guiding process than a nitty-gritty, ‘Rewrite the second verse’ kind of thing.

CE: It’s not about trying to put our personality or beliefs all over something. We just let them do what they do brilliantly. How has publishing changed since you first came into it? CE: When we started it was, ‘Oh, it’s just a bank, nobody does anything in publishing – do your record deal and then get a big fat cheque from EMI Publishing or whatever’. All the publishers

LEAD FEATURE

Caroline Elleray received the Sir George Martin Award at MBW’s A&R Awards in 2017

used to play golf together! Then it changed so publishing became more proactive. It does feel like it’s slightly going back to, ‘You just have to pay an absolutely massive cheque’, but that’s in records as well. Artists like Central Cee and Little Simz can do what they do on their own, because of streaming. MG: We’ve worked with a lot of artists now who’ve retained their rights on masters but signed to us for publishing. We’ve witnessed MySpace and iTunes and SoundCloud and Spotify – all of those things have disrupted things and given artists more of an outlet and more control, but we’ve managed to still find artists that can do well and that we’re excited about. People still want to sign publishing deals, which is good. With the rise of catalogue buyouts, do enough people still believe in the traditional publishing model? MG: Yes. Especially as the people we’re working with are generally at the start of that career. CE: We want to sign the writers that Merck [Mercuriadis] will want to sign in 20 years! If their circumstances mean that they need a heap of cash right now, then I suppose [a buyout] makes sense. Ultimately, it’s their property to sell or retain. MG: It’s definitely an endorsement for the music industry and

songwriters and publishers in general. If people are feeling like that [is a good investment], then that’s a good thing. That’s not been happening for the bulk of the years I’ve been doing it! Most of the artists you’ve worked with write their own songs. How do you feel about the trend for multiple co-writers? MG: I don’t think we’ll ever work with an artist who’ll have 16 writers on a song but, at the same time, I worked with Jin Jin at Universal and she brings a huge amount of value as a songwriter to the artists she works with. But, certainly, with the artists we’re working with and most of the artists we’ve worked with in the past, they’ve been the driving songwriter. There might be collaborators here and there, but the core of it is from those songwriters. And ultimately, where do you want to end up with Second Songs? CE: We want to have a brilliantly successful, but manageable roster. If we’ve been able to hire a few people and let our writers and artists achieve everything they want to achieve in a healthy, happy way, surrounded by people they trust, then that will be great. I’m actually more ‘glass half full’ than I’ve ever been at the moment. I’m not pretending it’s going to be easy, but it’s the only thing we can do. I’m not trained in anything else and neither is Mark – there are no alternatives. n 19

INTERVIEW

‘THE PANDEMIC REMINDED PEOPLE HOW MUCH THEY WANTED TO BE AT A SHOW’ Ben Lovett’s music venue company tvg Hospitality has raised $50 million in a funding round led by former KKR Partner Nat Zilkha and Gibson Brands. Here, the Mumford & Sons musician and entrepreneur explains how his firm plans to spend that money…

ive music is coming back, and Ben Lovett just raised $50 million to prove it. Following two years of uncertainty around the live entertainment sector due to the pandemic, Lovett’s music venue venture tvg Hospitality won a gigantic vote of confidence in February with a multi-million dollar funding round to expand its business. As a member of Grammy Awardwinning band Mumford & Sons, with a festival-headlining live music career on his CV, alongside three US No.1 albums, Lovett has seen his fair share of mega-sized audiences in the UK and abroad. But he’s now turning his attention to the club and theatre market in the US and UK with London-born tvg. In London, the firm’s portfolio already includes Omeara (320 cap), which launched at Flat Iron Square in 2016, plus Lafayette (600 cap) in Kings Cross (opened in 2019), as well as The Social (250 cap). Having cracked the US market as an artist, Lovett’s now looking to do the same as a business owner and one of live music’s newest independent impresarios. “I’ve always been a huge fan of America,” Lovett tells MBUK. “I’ve lived in America on and off since 2010. I have that wideeyed, British, land of opportunity approach to the States, still.” Lovett’s enthusiasm for the US market and for the live music industry as a whole caught the attention of his backers in this $50m round, who include Irving Azoff, Downtown’s Justin Kalifowitz and Andrew Bergman, Red Light Management founder Coran Capshaw, veteran artist manager Ron Laffitte, major-league agent Tom Windish, and star songwriter, Ryan Tedder.

Other investors include LionTree, Goldman Sachs, John Howard, Pete Muller and multiple partners from KKR. Tvg says that it’s already in development on numerous projects across the US and UK, including in Washington DC, London, Nashville, Austin, Detroit, New York and Los Angeles. The company has also already partnered with the City of Huntsville, Alabama on the Orion Amphitheater, a brand new 8,000-capacity music venue scheduled to open in May this year. Lovett has been firmly embedded in the independent music community for more than 15 years, initially with the

“We learned through adversity that we really loved this business.” Communion club night, followed by Communion Records and Communion Presents. He says that the goal for tvg is to stay “medium-sized”. He acknowledges, however, that, “this is now bigger than some of the initial ambitions I had and shared” with his brother [Greg] and father [David] when they “started out as a small family business” back in 2015. “Our dream is to get up to a place where we’re as big as we can be without losing that personal touch,” he explains. “We want to keep things as non corporate as possible, and as human as possible, because that’s what the music industry needs.”

In spite of the firm’s new war-chest, Lovett says that tvg has no desire to compete with the giants like Live Nation and AEG – nor does it plan to muscle in on grass roots music scenes in the US. “Companies like Live Nation and AEG, we see as being great partners,” says Lovett, “as we do the thousands of independent promoters [in the US]”. Lovett adds: “We want to provide a platform in which [promoters] can come in and work with their artists inside [our venues]. And if we go into a city where there’s an existing room that everyone loves, it’s not our intention to take business away from them.” Here, Ben Lovett details his ambitions for tvg, and his view on the future of live... Tell us about the significance of tvg securing funds from such a wide range of industry figures. It started during the pandemic; 2020, for us, was a year of survival, resilience and trying to figure out how we were going to come out the other side. We had hundreds of staff in London. We immediately had zero revenue as soon as everything closed down in March. When 2021 came around, and with it the [UK] Cultural Recovery Fund, that support [meant] we could take a view about what the future held for the company. What we learned through the adversity of the pandemic, was that we really loved this business. We wanted to make it strong and successful. Something became a universal truth, which was, no matter what people had managed to adjust to in their homes, we were still desperate to go and have a beer with a friend and go and watch a show in real life. 21

We started having some conversations with investors with a view to growing the company. Initially, we imagined that we were going to go down a more traditional institutional route. And then, after about three months of talking with some of the larger private equity companies, we thought it would actually be better to work with a much larger group of strategic partners who can both advise us, but also help support the growth of the business. We started reaching out to people and explaining who we were and what we were trying to do. It was incredibly well met. It’s a collection of believers, that’s the term that we use internally. Would you say that such a significant round of funding coming so soon after live music’s post-lockdown return is indicative of the industry feeling bullish about live music’s future? Yeah. As of right now, if you speak to anyone on the live music side, everyone’s feeling very confident that things are going to come back. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t recovery and damage and there’s definitely been casualties through the last couple of years. But in terms of: Will people go to more shows, or will more people go to see live music in 2022 than ever before? It’s shaping up that way. And you know, it’s been trending this way for the last 15-20 years. People love live music and spending time with their friends, and doing this stuff in real life. As the technological revolution has been taking hold, people have reacted by going to more live gigs than ever, and it seems [like a good sign] in terms of shows going up and ticket sales.

get six months or [a few] years down the road. This really sets us up well for the next five years. Your new Orion amphitheatre in Huntsville looks really impressive. It feels like a serious statement of intent. When we got asked to go to Huntsville, to meet with the mayor and the team there, I just gave them a very pure and unabashed vision of what bringing culture to Huntsville on a large format might look like. It was quite different to what they had originally envisaged for an amphitheatre. I guess they liked what we were saying and awarded us the contracts to design and build this amazing facility. Now we’re going to be operating it for the next couple of decades. The size of the venue is interesting: just before live music paused because of the

people are discovering their favourite musician, really the challenge is: can we build enough venues fast enough to meet the demand? Because there’s such depth in the backlog of artists who want to perform in venues. There’s just not enough venue inventory. How much of a priority is that middle class artist demographic for tvg? Of course, I’ve had the great honour of seeing the level of success that my band has had, but that’s not where the majority of musicians live, in terms of expectation, ambition or reality of where their careers go. Over the last 16 years with Communion, [we’ve] worked with artists of all sizes, and [tvg is about] wanting to make sure that we’re creating enough of a roadmap and landscape for [that level of artist] to thrive. So yeah, we’ll probably be focusing on small listening rooms, clubs, up to theatres and just taking more of a democratised approach to live music.

“People have reacted to the technological revolution by going to more live gigs.”

Are you looking to raise more funding in future? This funding will get us to exactly where we want to be in terms of bringing on equity partners. Hopefully [most of the] shareholders will be the team behind this company for the foreseeable [future]. This isn’t just to 22

pandemic, in summer 2019, AEG’s Rick Mueller said more artists in the US were now able to sell 2,000 to 4,000 capacity shows than at any time in history. Does that reflect what you’re seeing in the market now? Yeah, for lots of reasons. There’s a big diversity in tastes and preferences, and people are discovering more artists than ever before. [Also] there’s tens of thousands of new songs going up every week and new artists being launched. In amongst all of that, there’s a new burgeoning middle class of musicians, and they have their own fan bases. It’s not just dictated by a few gatekeepers, as it was in the ‘90s, which meant that only a certain number of artists could ever break through to that level. Now, whether it’s on any of the DSPs or however

In tvg’s funding announcement for the $50 million round, one of the quotes that stood out was that “rather than attempting to compete in a mature music industry with entrenched players, tvg has created a way to partner with the industry and build for the future”. What differentiates tvg from other players in the market? We’re really trying not to take anything away from anything that already exists. We’re not disrupting [the live business]. We’re whatever the opposite of disrupting is . We’re coming in with open arms to collaborate and support what’s already in place, whether that’s with management companies, promoters or agencies. All of these people who have come in to lock arms in this industry in the future. It’s reflective of the fact that we’re trying to be solely accretive to the landscape of live music. If there’s a demand in that city for more venues, we will provide it. If there’s a venue

INTERVIEW

that has a gap, let’s say a 1,500, to 2,000 capacity venue, then we’re going to try and provide the gap, so that artists don’t have to go and play a cut down room the next time they go through that city, or avoid it altogether. [We want to] make sure that there are strong ladders for artists to grow with their teams. The key bit is that we’re here to help grow everyone’s businesses. I see it as really giving back to this industry that has been such a huge part of my life. I wouldn’t be here without it. Tvg is also in development on numerous other projects. What are your ambitions in terms of the scale of the company? And you mentioned that Live Nation is a partner, but do you see them as a competitor in any way? No, we really try and work closely to not clash or get in the way. Live Nation is a hugely successful, multi-billion dollar enterprise. We’re still a small privately held independent family business. It’s not in our interest to try and compete, we’d much rather work with them as a partner, and as probably one of our biggest clients, especially in what we’ve seen in the programming for the Orion amphitheatre. It’s going to be slightly driven by our creative capacity, because every single one of these venues is going to be unique. Our goal is not to roll anything out and to repeat prior successes, we want to try and come up with a concept that speaks to the city that [the venue] is in, and the size of the room and the architectural parameters of the space. It takes a lot of firepower and energy to do it that way, rather than just saying, ‘Here’s the McDonald’s model’ and then we drop it into every city in the world. We are ambitious, and we want it to grow, but we also want to stay medium size. I don’t want us to get to the point where we’re not regularly tweaking the experience that’s being had at the venues. At the moment, a day doesn’t go past where I’m not in the weeds on what’s going on at Omeara, and Laffayette, and The Social in London, and all of our preplanning that’s going into The Orion.

The Orion Amphitheater

Lafayette in Kings Cross

It’s no secret that independent venues had a very tough time over the past two years. There were reports of venues being concerned about having to sell controlling stakes to survive. How healthy do you think the independent venue landscape is right now, at the beginning of 2022, and particularly in the US as you start making steps into that market? When it comes to the US, obviously the Save our Stages Bill was a huge victory for everyone in NIVA (National Independent Venue Association). We were really cheering on the efforts in that endeavour. A lot more venues would have shuttered had that bill not been passed. There have still been a number of casualties, and some great venues have unfortunately gone under. But I want to try and stay optimistic and hopeful for what the future of independent venues looks like.

There’s such a demand for these spaces and I don’t think that that’s going to drop off. Live music-wise, all the pandemic did was remind people how much they wanted to be at a show. Now that’s starting to happen again. There’s a chance to do things better. [The pandemic] shook up some of the industry in a good way in terms of some of the politics that sometimes gets in the way of things between agencies and promoters. I’ve seen a lot more open mindedness to collaboration. This tvg fundraise story really is testament to a willingness to not have to be the sole owner or the sole backer, and there is a world in which people can share the table and do what’s best for artists and fans, which is really what all of us should be thinking about every day. Sometimes that can get lost. I’m hoping that we’re an example of how you can bring people together, and people can see the bigger picture. n 23

The BRIT Awards 2022 It felt big, it felt thrilling, and it sure felt fiery. The BRIT Awards returned to the O2 Arena on February 8 with some blistering performances, and some very worthy winners...

All pictures: John Marshall/JMEnternational

Winners included Little Simz (Best New Artist) and Sam Fender (Best Rock/Alternative), while Anne-Marie and Liam Gallagher performed live

GALLERY

Ed Sheeran performed two songs on the night, while BRIT winner Dave was joined on stage by peers including Giggs (pictured bottom left)

Becky Hill (bottom left) won her first ever BRIT, capping a memorable night for Polydor – whose other domestic artist winners included Sam Fender and Holly Humberstone

Adele won three BRIT Awards at the 2022 event. Her performance of I Drink Wine has been viewed over 6 million times on YouTube

GALLERY

BRITs: All the winners Album Of The Year Adele – 30 Artist Of The Year Adele Best Group Wolf Alice Song Of The Year Adele – Easy On Me Best New Artist Little Simz Best International Artist Billie Eilish Best International Group Silk Sonic Best International Song Olivia Rodrigo – Good 4 U BRITS Rising Star Holly Humberstone Best Dance Becky Hill Best Rock/Alternative Sam Fender Best Pop/R&B Dua Lipa Best Hip-Hop/Grime/Rap Dave Producer Of The Year Inflo Songwriter Of The Year Ed Sheeran

Dave’s guitar shot out actual flames. In addition to Giggs, he was joined on stage by Ghetts, Meekz and Fredo

Ed Sheeran collected the BRIT award for the year’s Best Songwriter, while performing alongside Bring Me The Horizon

THE GREAT ROCK N(FT) ROLL SWINDLE Eamonn Forde raises some concerns over a potential music biz bubble – in which the non-fungible get filthy and furious… In May 1980, The Great Rock ‘n’ Roll Swindle film was released. In it, Malcolm McLaren took a phantasmagorical, if not outright Stalinist, approach to the history of his former management charges, the Sex Pistols. In his narration of the film – which structurally is, in modern parlance, a ‘hot mess’ – McLaren renamed himself The Embezzler. He posited that the band was entirely his creation and that he alone, as the great situationist auteur, was stage managing every movement and syllable to simultaneously goad, satirise, undermine, delegitimise and bleed dry the music business. He called this grand act The Swindle and outlined his 10 (retrospectively defined) lessons to explain just how he pulled off such a daring heist. Rewatching the film over four decades on, one is put in mind of many things currently gripping the modern music industry, but none more so than NFTs and how they have shifted, in the space of a year, from being a hugely exciting creative and commercial force into being hijacked by a new generation of crypto grifters. (Legal notice: I am in no way suggesting that all NFTs are a scam or towering follies, but rather that scam artists are increasingly flocking to them like carrion crows. These people are stripping NFTs of their original purposes and benefits.) This is unquestionably a boom area for the business and every week brings some new NFT launch that has generated some seriously eyebursting sums of money (while creating what is claimed to be the world’s first NFT music label) or stands as a serious strategy statement linked to Web3 in general and NFTs in particular. Yet there is a duplicity cracking open at the very centre of the music NFT gold rush that risks soiling the entire enterprise. The Sex Pistols (first time around) barely lasted two-and-a-half years and the media storm that engulfed them (from Bill Grundy in October 1976 to Johnny Rotten walking out in January 1978) was a fleeting 16 months. We are really only a year into NFTs as something the music industry is getting its head around. The precipice looms. 34

Applying McLaren-esque thinking, we can see how NFTs have had a similar trajectory – coming from the underground and exploding into the mainstream consciousness before collapsing into confusion, recrimination and accusations of being ripped off. Replace EMI and A&M with assorted Silicon Valley evangelists who are then superseded by unregulated and hedonistic crypto bros looking to make fast money through whatever means they can and the narrative arc is unnervingly similar. Let’s revisit those McLaren lessons to see how well they fit ‘the new NFT paradigm’.

“There is a duplicity cracking open at the centre of the NFT gold rush that risks soiling the entire enterprise.”

LESSON 1: HOW TO MANUFACTURE YOUR NFT Barely anyone in music knew, or cared, about NFTs until early 2021 when Grimes made $6 million selling digital art. Then, like major label A&Rs seeing a new scene bloom on indie labels, they all piled in. No one was quite sure what to do so they just copied what everyone else was doing. If you hadn’t made an NFT, ran the proposition, did you even exist? LESSON 2: ESTABLISH THE NAME ‘NFT’ ‘Non-fungible token’ is an ugly and clunky phrase and no one is quite sure what ‘fungible’ actually means. There will inevitably be mushroom jokes. ‘NFT’ is a lot slicker and if you repeat it enough times then people will stop asking what the letters stand for and thereafter be terrified to admit they don’t actually know. LESSON 3: SELL THE SWINDLE This is the point where honourable actions, or even just panicked bandwagon jumping, get corrupted by opportunistic outsiders. Bless Ozzy Osborne’s demonic heart, but his CryptoBatz collection was quickly hijacked by phishing scammers who were intent on fleecing innocent buyers. Scammers also sailed into OpenSea to digitally loot and plunder. The RIAA is currently chasing down HitPiece for mass infringement of musicians’ IP rights in what it says is “little more than a scam operation”. Even HMRC in the UK is seizing NFTs as evidence in

a complex VAT fraud investigation involving a multitude of alleged fake companies. The swindle for McLaren hinged on one group, meaning it could only have so much impact. The swindle in NFTs is beginning to feel industrialised.

The last laugh? Johnny Rotten and the Sex Pistols have reformed three times since their split in 1978

Photo: DFP_Shutterstock

COMMENT

LESSON 4: DO NOT PLAY, DON’T GIVE THE GAME AWAY This ‘less is more’ approach (out of necessity when the Pistols were banned from playing various cities in the UK) created a mythology around them and fixed in people’s minds the notion that they were just too dangerous to be put in front of the public. The closest the NFT world gets to this is trying to create false scarcity by offering NFTs in a 24- or 48hour window. That’s less about danger and more about desperation. NFT (Faux-Limited Edition). LESSON 5: HOW TO STEAL AS MUCH MONEY AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE FROM THE ARTIST OR INVESTOR OF YOUR CHOICE After taking legal advice, there is nothing we wish to write here just yet. LESSON 6: BECOME THE WORLD’S GREATEST TOURIST ATTRACTION ‘NFT’ was unquestionably the buzz term of 2021 and saw everyone in music try and launch an NFT collection – or at least kick the (non-fungible) tyres. Like a panicked crowd, the stampede grew exponentially greater, but most were unsure where they were actually running to; or even why. LESSON 7: CULTIVATE HATRED, IT’S YOUR GREATEST ASSET This is all down to the bloviation of the tech bros. ‘You don’t care about NFTs, dude?’ they will bellow, between chugs from an oversized Champagne bottle that costs more than your car, while standing somewhere repulsively expensive in Palm Springs or on top of a garish skyscraper in the UAE. ‘You only hate us because you ain’t us. Yeeeeaaahhhhhh!’ This has none of the curdling menace of McLaren’s take on The Society Of The Spectacle. It is less Guy Debord and more guys who are boorish. LESSON 8: HOW TO DIVERSIFY YOUR BUSINESS The rebranding process is already underway as NFTs get rolled into the catch-all term ‘Web3’, which encompasses cryptocurrency, the blockchain and tokens. Like the wildcatters in the oil industry,

“Johny Rotten’s words echo down the years, ‘Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?’”

NFTs have done the hard work for themselves so are happy to sit back and let others take it all to the next stage while they reap the benefits. LESSON 9: TAKING CIVILISATION TO THE BARBARIANS This was McLaren’s twist on neo-colonialism as the Sex Pistols played the US on their disastrous last tour, suggesting their brutal chaos was there to shock a dozing nation out of its backwards slumbers. There is a subset of NFT evangelists who present NFTs as digital’s highest stage of evolution and use derision to convince disbelievers that their Luddite leanings are holding their own development back. Shame is used as both carrot and stick. LESSON 10: WHO KILLED BAMBI? ‘Never trust a hippie’ sang Tadpole (aka Edward Tudor-Pole) in The Great Rock ‘n’ Roll Swindle’s cinema lobby sequence. ‘Never trust a tech bro’, should be its modern incarnation. Even the Trumps are now hawking NFTs. This can only ever be a foreshadowing of darker times ahead. Johnny Rotten’s final words at the Sex Pistols’ (then) last show, in San Francisco on 14 January 1978 still echo down the years. “Ah-hah-hah!” he jeered, on his haunches, staring down the audience, “ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated? Goodnight.” The band’s closing act on stage was to play an apposite cover of No Fun by The Stooges. Were it to happen today, they’d perhaps retitle it No Funge. 35

WHY THE ‘TORTURED ARTIST’ CLICHÉ NEEDS TO GET IN THE BIN Rhian Jones challenges a well-worn music industry trope, and surveys the damaging effect it can have on creative careers... For many years, the idea that great suffering leads to great art has prevailed. Heartbreak albums are, arguably, amongst some of the best, and there are countless songs about loss and the most challenging things we, as humans, have to go through that cut straight through and leave you breathless. I get this gut-punch while listening to Amy Winehouse’s Love is a Losing Game, for example, and, more recently, Yebba’s October Song from her astounding debut, Dawn, which recalls a memory about her mum who she sadly lost to suicide. There’s no question that musicians who pour their hearts and souls into their work have a deep connection to their emotions, which in turn helps listeners tune into theirs. There’s also evidence that alongside that gift comes a certain emotional sensitivity in the way musicians move through life. As Elton John manager David Furnish said in the previous edition of this magazine, “Artists are the most sensitive of people — if you prick them, they really bleed.” Fellow manager Ashley Page backs this up in his interview elsewhere in this magazine: “You are dealing with, on a very personal level, very emotional people, and rightly so — the greatest songs are written because people are emotional.” Scientific studies have looked into this and found similar conclusions. In his book, Creativity, which explores the creative process and lives of creative people, psychologist Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi noted that “the openness and sensitivity of creative individuals often exposes them to suffering and pain yet also a great deal of enjoyment”. What I’ve found gets confused, though, in this conversation, is the difference between emotional sensitivity and mental ill-health. Musicians who are unwell might be branded as ‘tortured artists’ whose problems are just part and parcel of life as a creative. This is compounded by studies that say 36

“What gets confused is the difference between emotional sensitivity and mental ill-health.”

musicians are at a higher risk of developing mental health issues than the general population. It’s easy to look at all of this and come to the conclusion that a creative and emotionally sensitive brain is predisposed to developing mental health issues, but it’s a reductive idea that ignores the complexity of health and risks discouraging those suffering from finding support. In addition, research has found no such concrete link. For example, a study published in 2012 of more than a million people in Sweden found that, aside from authors, who had a higher prevalence of experiencing bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, people in creative professions were no more likely to have a psychiatric disorder than those in the control group. And alongside the high-profile examples of so-called ‘tortured artists’ are many others who’ve also created brilliant work while maintaining a generally balanced state of mind. In reality, the causes of mental ill-health are complex. They span a multitude of factors, including genetics, environment, upbringing, trauma, deprivation and stress. Between 2017 and 2019, a lot of much-loved musicians sadly

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Photo: Ricky-Alvarez

Yebba’s acclaimed debut LP, Dawn, was released last year

died to suicide, including Chester Bennington, Chris Cornell, Avicii, Keith Flint and Scott Hutchison. During that time, some fingers were pointed towards the music industry as the sole cause, and while that has a certain level of validity, it’s also not the complete picture — we know, for instance, that suicide is the leading cause of death for men aged under 50, whether they work in music or not. Mental ill-health is quite prevalent, generally — research from charity Mind says that one in four people in the UK will experience a mental health problem each year. Alongside studies and articles delving into the commonality of mental ill-health in music are others that say similar about other industries. In finance, for example, a 2018 study said that 62% of financial sector firms saw an increase in mental health related illness, which was partly due to the ludicrously long hours and demands of the job. (I once had a conversation with a young banker who was telling me about how common it was to get a taxi home from the office in the early hours of the morning, have it wait outside while you took a shower, before getting back in and returning to work — it’s not hard to imagine the impact this culture would have on health.) A 2019 article titled ‘Inside Fashion’s Enduring Mental Health Epidemic’ laid out similar challenges due to low wages and pressure. Neither of the above examples suggested that

“Sensitivity alone doesn’t result in selfdestruction. For me it’s an ‘and’ rather than an ‘equals’.”

the suffering of those working in the respective industries had anything to do with the innate make-up of the workers. What does make sense, however, is that if you put an emotionally sensitive person into a highpressure environment, and don’t give them the support they need, health problems are likely to occur. This is especially true if that person has had a traumatic upbringing and/or existing mental health issues that have been left untreated. Sensitivity alone doesn’t result in selfdestruction. To me, it’s an ‘and’ rather than an ‘equals’. Amy Winehouse was an incredible lyricist because she was emotionally intelligent and sensitive and she was struggling with addiction and an eating disorder. Scott Hutchison was also a brilliant songwriter who had a deep connection with his innate creativity and he suffered with depression and alcohol misuse. Suggesting that one equals the other, for anyone, is going to be unhelpful for the development of the music industry’s approach to health and wellbeing as it risks not getting to the root cause of any problems and therefore being able to help solve them. As the pandemic hopefully fades into history and the music industry gets back on its feet, doing away with this well-worn cliché will only help it emerge stronger and more ethically sound than before, while ensuring long-term sustainability for the talent it works with in years to come. 37

‘WHAT I’M TRYING TO DO IS SHINE A SPOTLIGHT ON BRILLIANCE AND ADD WHAT I CAN’ British music production royalty Fraser T Smith has enjoyed commercial success and critical acclaim in abundance (as well as picking up a fair few awards on both sides of the Atlantic), but he is as hungry as ever to make timeless music with incredible talent…

raser T Smith is holed up in a rustic, barn conversion-like home studio when we speak. It’s the best place to be on a day where the sun barely peeks out from the clouds. Upholstered beams hold up the ceilings and MIDI keyboards line the desk behind him. This pocket of English countryside found in Buckinghamshire – only an hour’s train from London, but far enough away to feel like it’s plucked from an Enid Blyton novel – is where Smith has recorded some of the biggest records to ever come out of the UK. Before we ask a question related to his life as a producer, someone who’s helped craft the sound of Adele, Stormzy, Dave and Drake, Smith opens up about some of his first loves. There’s football talk, obviously. Smith also reminisces about taking work experience jobs in Manchester as a 17 year old, solely to visit the landmarks made famous in Smiths records, hiring a car to tour Salford Lads Club, Strangeways Prison and random ‘Cemetry Gates’. Liam Gallagher and bucket hats are mentioned, inevitably. Smith, however, is not largely known for his contribution to Manchester’s music history. Instead, he has had more than a hand in shaping what is arguably the most seminal, vital sound to come out of the UK in decades: grime. Two of the genre’s leading figures, Dave and Stormzy, owe a large chunk of their success to Smith and his guidance. Smith executive produced both of their debut albums, and co-wrote Stormzy’s Audacity and Dave’s Funky Friday. Since then, Smith has won three Ivor Novellos in four years for his various works

with Dave. “If it wasn’t for Fraser,” said Stormzy in 2018, while presenting him with a Best Producer Award, “I don’t think I would have ever been able to realise the artist that I could truly be.” The likes of Stormzy and Dave are modern products of grime’s origins. It came from London. Clashes filmed on shaky camcorders were distributed on DVDs named Lord of the Mic. MCs spread their name on the sadly now defunct Channel U, a sort of UK-version of Yo! MTV Raps where anyone – literally anyone – could send in a music video and see it on TV. Smith was there at the time, working with the likes of Kano and Tinchy Stryder

contributed to 18 Number One albums and eight Number One UK singles. Oh, and he’s won a Grammy, too. Shortly after Dave brought gospel choirs and flaming guitars to The BRITs 2022, Smith speaks to MBUK about his life, career and hopes for the future… You’ve been described in past interviews as ‘UK rap’s secret weapon’ and that you bring the ‘Midas touch to grime’. How does that sound? Do you feel like a secret weapon? What I’ve always tried to do is work with great artists across the board, and for artists to really feel that when they step in the studio, they feel very safe, creatively. I’m always looking at ways that I can help and be of service to an artist. When I first started working with Kano back in the early 2000s, I was aware that I wasn’t trying to jump on the back of those early grime records. I wanted to look at how I could add what I do into the mix. With artists like Kano, Dave and Stormzy, they’re such visionaries that they really want to bring something new to the table. It’s become this crazy match between me and the artist, where they’re looking to move into different areas and I try to support that, while being very respectful of the heritage and the music that they’re coming with. I think ‘secret weapon’ is flattering, but what I’m trying to do is shine a spotlight on brilliance, and to add what I can. Maybe there’s a sonic I can add, or a musical breadth. I can buy Dave a guitar, and then see

“I’m always looking at ways that I can help and be of service to the artist.”

in trying to bring this then-underground genre to the masses. Mainstream audiences weren’t entirely ready for it, though. Naturally, some records were watered down incarnations of the frenetic roots they grew from. But Smith was a bridge from grime’s first tiptoes into the public consciousness, to the BRIT-winning, chartdominating, Glastonbury-headlining status it enjoys today. Then, there’s his work with Adele, Sam Smith, Gorillaz and Florence and the Machine, making Smith a producer who can walk the line between the overground and the underground, and someone who’s achieved two No. 1 US singles, and has

how he’s taken that on. When I watched his [2022 BRITs] performance, it felt like I was having an out of body experience. It was like a dream to see. When I first bought him the guitar, he didn’t know one end of it from the other. Then, he went away and practised, woodshedded for hours and hours to get to that point. That’s so culturally significant, in these days of minute-and-a-half songs. I really respect [that], and I love artists like PinkPantheress for what she’s doing to the industry. There is another visionary, but the fact that Dave can play a guitar solo, that probably lasted longer than a PinkPantheresse song, at the BRITs, to shine a light on [on-stage collaborators] Giggs and Ghetts, and to play keys, acoustic guitar and electric guitar. That for me just showed what rap music can do. That’s what’s always drawn me to that genre. I can show Dave a piece by [Gabriel] Fauré, we can talk about Pink Floyd, or we can talk about who’s the new hottest rapper. That for me is always what I’ve been about, which is diversity and breadth in creativity and in music.

Kasabian frontman, Tom Meighan, left the band after he was convicted of domestic assault in July 2020]. I’ve seen Serge’s vision of how he wants this new incarnation of Kasabian to sound. I’ve been there to support him through the tough times, as well as the great times. I’ve seen him step into the role of the real leader of this band. When Serge talks about what he wants Kasabian to be, a cross between Travis Scott and Iggy Pop, they’re the references that start sparking me up. It’s not driven by A&R, it’s not driven by TikTok, with all due respect to all the brilliant A&Rs out there and the great platform TikTok is for creativity. But when you’re able to become musical partners with great artists, I have to step up and match them. I’m definitely not

War by Kaiser Chiefs, there was a massive hole where [former drummer] Nick had been. He was the Paul McCartney to Ricky’s John Lennon. There was a hole there where someone needed to come in and suggest melodies, chords, and work with the band in that way. The thing I try to do is work out where the weak spots are, and then try to fill those in. It’s like a midfielder role. Is that something you’ve had to learn over time? I start off with the question, how can I help? When you’ve had a long career, artists will come in for different reasons, so it’s about cutting to the chase. Where’s the weak point? If it’s lyrics, let’s not worry about melodies until we’ve gone in on the lyrics. If it’s lacking rhythm, then they’ll write the song and I’ll programme the drums and get some beats going. Let’s break it down. That’s what keeps me interested and fresh, in that I’m constantly having to push myself. There’s so many facets of production and songwriting, that to get really involved in one specific area is where you really push yourself. You also have to read how a particular artist is on a particular day, and the role is going to change depending on how they’re feeling. It’s ever-changing. That’s the draw.

“I try to work out where the weak spots are and fill them in. It’s like a midfielder role.”

It takes a certain type of confidence to do a minute-and-a-half solo at the BRITs, knowing that your fans will be patient with it and will enjoy it. It goes back to what you said earlier, about wanting an artist to feel safe. Going back to your days with Kano and Craig David, a lot of the records you’ve been involved in have not only tapped into a cultural zeitgeist of the moment, but they’ve helped push the culture forward. How do you continue to tap into that? When looking to elevate artists in general, I’m always looking at who is coming into the studio with the vision. If an artist comes in with an incredible vision, then I’m just there for however long they need me to push them, support them and elevate what it is that they do. I’ve just finished the latest Kasabian album, and I’ve been working with [lead singer] Serge quite intensely. [Former 40

someone that is content just to sit at the side of the studio and not support. It’s kind of to do with what you say about a ‘cultural zeitgeist’, but I’ve just been very fortunate to be around great artists. I’m actively looking for new artists, especially now with my label, 70Hz. By doing that, I’m tapping into some sort of zeitgeist, because I’m able to shine a spotlight on incredible talent. And that must always, in some way, shine. It doesn’t always have to be a Dave or a Stormzy. It could be [Peckham singersongwriter] Cosmo Pyke, whose first EP we did. It could be Claire Maguire, whose record didn’t really take off commercially, but there was some kind of zeitgeist around her that we captured. With Kasabian, have you had a similar experience before? Where a band has had to change everything that they’ve ever known almost overnight? When I worked on Education, Education,

Are there days where you just have to let an artist have a day off to walk around the countryside to make things feel right? If an artist is caught in a rut, then that’s about the expectation of the artist and the pressure they’ve put on themselves, or the pressure they feel from the industry or the label. We’re all trying to write five great songs a week, but ultimately, we’ll all die with just a handful written on our gravestones, or on Wikipedia. The aim is to get one of those, and if it takes a week, then that’s okay. A hit can be a hit, but like you said there

INTERVIEW

Dave at the BRITs

are songs that will outlive you. Are those the types of songs the ones you’re always aiming for in the studio? It’s really good to challenge any idea. The song is like a fighter, and you’re putting it in the ring. You may know that fighter is the champion of the world, but you need to put it through a few rounds to test it. The biggest songs I’ve ever been involved in have not necessarily been the smoothest, but I don’t want to jinx the future. I want to allow someone to walk in and then in five minutes it’s done, but when you know you’ve got something great the stakes feel a bit higher. What are some of those songs that stand out for you? Set Fire to the Rain felt almost perfect, but we couldn’t get the pre-chorus. I remember Adele saying she couldn’t get it, and at the time when Adele smoked, she went over to the kitchenette, smoked

cigarettes and furiously wrote ideas in a notebook. When she finally got it, it was a eureka moment. On Broken Strings with myself, James Morrison and Nina Woodford, it was quite a quick, almost Motown-esque song in the beginning. I don’t think the vision was fully realised from the first writing session we had. Colin Barlow came in and flipped that vision into a slightly different type of feel That for me was brilliant A&R, because I don’t think that that song would have been that song without Colin’s input. That was him suggesting another record and a reference; it was visionary thinking. Blinded By Your Grace was initially a grime tune, but I could tell that Stormzy was pretty tormented with the uncertainty of what it should be. We got together one Sunday night, just me and him, and I started playing the chords that ended up on the record. That opened up something for him, and he felt like he wanted to go into another room to

come up with the ideas. That pretty much was how that song was written, but over the course of months. And it just came at that point on a Sunday night. So, is there a recording in a vault somewhere where Blinded By Your Grace is a grime tune? Yeah, it was a completely different take. Sometimes you just need to turn things upside down and start again. But again, Stormzy’s vision is incredible. When it comes to one track, he’s probably got 10 references in his head. That’s what makes him great. That’s what makes all artists great. These artists are visionaries, and they are successful for a reason. Artists like Stormzy or Dave obviously have very important things to say on a record, and that’s key to grime and UK rap in general, the lyricism drives 41

Smith produced / co-produced four tracks on Stormzy’s Heavy Is the Head album

a lot of it. For you as a producer, do you just sit back and let them say what they need to say in the booth? Or are you actively trying to bring that out of them? With Dave, we would go through lyrics and concepts at the very beginning of the record. He would go into the granular details of the lyrics, bring them back, and so forth. With Stormzy, we’d work on melodies and edit them together. When something’s not broken, you don’t have to fix it. When the bars are flowing, then you should let them flow. But the studio can feel like a very vulnerable place to lay down those first ideas. So when help is needed, then I’m right there for them.

why was 2020 the year to release that? I didn’t think I could bring anything else to anybody else at that point. I had worked on Kano’s Made in the Manor, then [Stormzy’s] Gang Signs and Prayers, then [Dave’s] Psychodrama. I just had to just develop myself in other areas. I had worked so intensely on

people and record them answering those questions, just to give us different points of view. I had a whiteboard where I would write down the names of everyone I wanted to interview. From that, it ended up as this whole movement of music that’s 52 minutes long, which is meant to be a journey through the 12 questions. The answers certainly don’t give us the full picture, but we have some pretty incredible answers from people such as [activist] Albert Woodfox. When he answered what the cost of freedom is, having been incarcerated for 44 years in a six by four foot cell for 23 hours a day, that’s a pretty incredible answer. And we asked the same question to Dave, Es Devlin, Stormzy, and Katrin Fridriks, who’s an Icelandic abstract artist. We’ve now expanded that into a podcast, asking those same questions to people

“I remember hearing Fight The Power and feeling how powerful music could be.”

After so long producing massive records, with 12 Questions, your first solo project, 42

those few records, I didn’t want to go back to traditional writing and production. In the beginning, I had these 12 questions that I thought would be great to develop as part of a short film or some kind of documentary. I didn’t know what that was going to be, but I just knew that I wanted to interview

INTERVIEW

Is it exciting to have your own project, something that you can just experiment with and allow to mutate in your own way? It’s the best thing. Being able to spend time writing my own music, writing my own hooks, working on my own artwork, and having all that expression allows me to be clearer with artists. I’ve obviously been there for the artists that I’ve worked with, but I think every writer and producer should have something of their own. When you’re in the studio, you can sometimes become exhausted helping artists out. It’s the best thing in the world, but it can also be draining. In order for me to progress, it’s really important to sit down and think, ‘What is the next step? How are we going to move this forward?’ It makes you feel very replete and very fulfilled, and then when you work with other artists, you can really be of service to them. I know you had those ‘12 questions’ to begin with, but after working on so many records, was it hard to chisel down what you wanted it to sound like as well? I managed to get to the core of what kind of music, given free rein, I would make. In a very crass way, it was blending hip-hop and guitar-based music. I’ve always been a huge lover of rhythm, but especially hip-hop. That was something I wanted to put firmly into the record. Hip-hop is a very formative genre, though. Was that the case for you? 100%. I remember hearing Public Enemy’s Fight the Power, and really feeling how strong and powerful music could be. I remember going to see [Spike Lee’s] Do the Right Thing at the cinema when I was really young, and that just blew my mind. Those moments are seminal, and it’s

Photo: Shutterstock Dfree

like George the Poet, Kae Tempest, Jamie Oliver, Fatboy Slim and Julie Adenuga. It’s become an incredible part of my life, and it started with these questions.

Adele attending the Grammys in 2013, where 21 won Album Of The Year. Smith won a gong for his production on Set Fire To the Rain

probably the same when a 12 year old today hears a great Stormzy song, or Black by Dave. Watching that video, you can see how powerful that is. Those are seminal moments. It’s a time when you’re so open to influence. Is that a feeling you try to bring to the records that you work on? When you’re on a bus and some kids are playing your tune out loud on their phone, is that a big marker of success for you? I remember when Tinchy Stryder’s Number One came out [in 2009], and I remember walking past a local Budgens shop in South London, and some kids were playing that record off their phone. For me, as a commercial sign of success, seeing people react to your music like that is an amazing feeling. As a creative, getting art and commerce

right is probably the biggest challenge. But there’s a point where the intersection of art and commerce meet, and the songs that I’ve written that I’m most proud of have definitely done that. Dave’s Funky Friday, Black or Set Fire to the Rain are all cultural moments that I’m very proud of having collaborated on. I hold my head up high, and I don’t think anyone sold themselves short on those projects. Even looking back to Number One by Tinchy, at the time, it was seen as super commercial, but the fact was that UK rap music had to be commercial for it to go on to radio. We did what we had to do, but I still listen back to those records and think, that was a time in a place, and I’m hugely grateful to have had all those incredible moments. n 43

KEY SONGS IN THE LIFE OF…

Natasha Mann The former Island MD and now Director of Diversity & Inclusion at Universal Music UK talks us through the five tracks that mean the most to her – and which have had the biggest impact on her life and career to date... 44

PLAYLIST

atasha Mann spent 12 years at Island Records, working with artists such as Mumford & Sons, Disclosure, Catfish & The Bottlemen, John Newman and PJ Harvey among many others. In the process she rose from Marketing Manager to Managing Director. Last year, however, she decided she wanted to step away from labels. It is, she concedes, quite a tough move to make, with some execs perhaps feeling a little lost away from ‘the frontline’. But sometimes there are bigger battles to be fought than those based on chart positions. And for Mann, timings and passions aligned as, almost exactly a year ago, she was named Universal Music UK’s first ever Director of Diversity & Inclusion. She says: “It was an interesting pivot, but it also felt quite natural. Diversity is something I have always tried to be vocal about, in all of my positions here. It’s also something I’ve always talked to David [Joseph, Universal UK Chairman & CEO] about. “I love the company and have always felt really championed and supported here, so I knew this was the right move at the right time. “I remember feeling incredibly proud to work at Universal when the Creative Differences handbook was launched in 2020. And now I’m excited to work

alongside the team to continue to ensure that we are not only celebrating neurodiversity within the company, but also continuing to educate ourselves on the experiences of our colleagues from that community. “We are working very closely with our UK Taskforce For Meaningful Change on some initiatives and

already within the company can apply to move into the A&R sector. You can work in marketing or the post room, and if you feel that you have what it takes to be an A&R, you can apply to be on this programme, which is a mixture of on-the-job learning, mentorship and courses, “David's really passionate about it, in fact everyone's behind it and everyone feels like there needs to be a bit of a shift in terms of diversity in that area of the business in particular. Because it also taps into wider issues. "For instance, if we zoom out even further and look at where Presidents of labels and companies come from, it is quite often A&R.” Generally, Mann is equal parts optimistic and realistic about her new role, and the road ahead. “There’s no denying that there’s still so much to be done, but we're fortunate to be part of an industry that is so fast-paced. By the very nature of what people are doing in their day jobs, they’re always adapting and pivoting, trying new things. “In that sense I think that challenging ourselves and our business in the areas of diversity and inclusion, finding ways to improve things and questioning how things have always been should be relatively easy for us. It should be second nature, in fact. We should be at the forefront of change.”

“There needs to be a shift in terms of diversity in that area of the business.” programmes which I feel will be crucial for our black colleagues and which will in turn benefit the wider company.” Due to maternity leave, there was a bit of a gap between Mann taking the job and really getting stuck into the role late last year. She’s well and truly up and running now, though, with one of her biggest initial projects having just got underway. She says: “There had been lots of conversations during my Keeping In Touch Days, and one of the big ones was around women in A&R, which is a major focus of mine. “As a result, we’ve just launched a programme through which women

1. The World Famous Supreme Team, Hey! DJ (1984)

2. End of a Century, Blur (1994)

I was very young when this came out, but if I think of songs that were always on repeat in my childhood, this is one of the top three, definitely. My mum just absolutely loved this track, and me and my brother always enjoyed dancing with her in the living room to it. I remember her dusting off the vinyl sleeve, with this incredible and super-evocative artwork. It’s just stuck forever in my memory. The hook is also one of those hooks you can’t forget. I don't know if I would say I grew up in an especially musical household, but certainly the radio was always on and there was always music of some sort. And it was a good mix because my dad and my mum had slightly different tastes. My dad loved artists like Courtney Pine and Joni Mitchell. My mum loved people like Anita Baker and Sade, so it felt there was a nice melting pot of stuff going on in that house in North London.

It was only when I went to secondary school that I started to develop my own personal taste in music, like most people, I guess. And, looking back, I think I was really fortunate that at the time; although to some extent there were tribes, everybody kind of listened to everything. That’s why I would find it hard to say what my favourite act or genre of the nineties was, because I was genuinely listening to Blur's Parklife album

I remember this song in particular was the one that was played at the end of all of the house parties or the sleepovers. It’s a really beautiful track and I think it's actually quite a mature song for us to have been tapping into, because it’s quite melancholy. It didn’t sound like anything else out there, and that really resonated with me. Also, Blur and The Spice Girls really remind me of watching The BRITs when I was young, all those awesome performances. Those iconic nineties artists, I thought they were incredible. I feel quite privileged to have grown up in that decade. On the one hand you had Goldie and Bjork, and then you had The Spice Girls and All Saints. I had to include something from that era because that was when I started to properly fall in love with music.

“This song was the one that was played at the end of all the house parties and sleepovers.”

on repeat, but also the Spice Girls and the Prodigy and Aaliyah. Growing up in North London, I had a mix of friends from all walks of life. A lot of them had older sisters and one of them was a real Britpop head. She had an NME subscription, so we’d always be reading her copy.

3. Jill Scott, Golden (2004) I picked this because it really reminds me of when I started working. My first job out of university was in Soho, at a

PLAYLIST

lifestyle PR company called Shilland, and there was this record shop nearby called Deal Real. It was this tiny, tiny place, off Carnaby Street, but it was so important in terms of what was going on at that time. You could go there in your lunch hour and genuinely bump into Kanye West buying some records; it was awesome. You know when you land your first job in music, and you think, ‘Oh my goodness, this is really as great as I thought it was going to be!’ Sony Music was still there at that time, and it just felt like such a vibey area of London to be working in. On Friday nights, Deal Real used to do this open mic night, where people could come and do a little freestyle. And occasionally people like Lupe Fiasco or Kanye would turn up, Jay Z turned up one time. The DJs on those nights would invariably warm up with this track. It’s also a nod to the end of my university days, when I was listening to a lot of Nu Soul from America. Plus it reminds me of 1Xtra starting up, which was so exciting for the UK black music scene. There’s a lot of memories all mixed up in this one track

of my closest industry friends, like Briony Turner [Atlantic], Joe Kentish [Warner], Ben and Daniel Parmar [PMR/EMI]. It felt like I was really part of the business, and in the right place at the right time, which was just so cool. It was such a brilliant crew of people that I was bumping into at all those gigs. I remember meeting Johnathan Dickins for the first time at an Adele gig. I think that might have actually been the first time he'd seen her live. She was, and is, such a glorious artist and I almost can't believe I was lucky enough to see someone like Adele play at The Barfly.

5. Disclosure, What’s In Your Head (2013) I couldn’t have this list without including a track from Disclosure. I remember hearing them for the first time on Annie Mac’s Radio 1 show and just thinking, ‘Oh my God, who is this?’ I then had to find out everything about them, listen to everything they’d done. I remember realising how young they were and being even more impressed, and more and more interested in their story. I got wind that we [Island] were trying to sign them and I basically pitched to Ted [Cockle] and Darcus [Beese], saying if ever there was an act that was made for me, this is it. Thankfully we did sign them, through PMR, and so I did get to work with them and it was every bit as perfect as I’d thought it would be. Sonically, I was interested in everything they were trying to do and all of the references that they touched on really resonated with me. I also just loved them as people, they were just so lovely and normal – but so exceptionally talented. The managers, Jack [Street] and Sam [Evitt] were also brilliant, and great to work with. Jack had actually done work experience for me when I was at Toast. And with PMR, obviously I’d got to know Ben and Daniel in the YoYo days. It was one of those projects where everything comes together, everyone gets on and everyone on the inside has the same ambition. We were all their champions, within the label and out in the world. Also, I really went on a journey with Disclosure, because for the first album [Settle, 2013] I was Island’s Marketing Manager, and by the time the last one [Energy, 2020] came out, I was MD. When you meet Guy and Howard, you know straight away that they're the deepest music lovers. And the ambition at the start was to kind of cement them as a credible, seminal act, which is absolutely what they are. To have such sustained commercial success on top of that was just a dream. n

“I almost can't believe I was lucky enough to see someone like Adele play at The Barfly.”

4. Adele, Hometown Glory (2007) This is my favourite Adele song. If Jill Scott’s Golden was the soundtrack to my first job, this represents the time when I felt like I was properly in the music industry. I'd set up my own company after Shilland, with the woman who had been my boss there. And because it was our own thing, I got catapulted into the world of A&R and scouting artists, looking for new business; that was so exciting for me. In some ways it was an extension of that Soho scene. It was a time when most artists, irrespective of genre, were playing one of two venues: it was either The Barfly in Camden or the YoYo night on Thursdays at Notting Hill Arts Club. I met people there who are now some

She even thanked me for ‘spreading the word from the beginning’ on the liner notes of her first album [19, 2008], alongside Richard Antwi and Felix Howard, which is beautiful company to be in. Obviously I never ended up working directly with her, but I still always think of her as one of the most important artists that was around at the start of my career. To have a voice like that, and then on top of that, write lyrics the way she does. I think that’s why I'd place Hometown Glory as my favourite Adele song, because it's just so raw and she wrote it when she was so young; it's such a beautiful song and one that can really connect with millions and millions of people around the world. And on top of all that, everybody wanted to be around her, because she was just so funny and such great fun to hang out with. Everybody wanted her to do well. And in fact everyone knew she would.

Numbers

you need to know Q1 2022 was a quarter replete with major new financial milestones for the music business – and a gigantic deal or two. It also brought with it a huge piece of news for the UK market specifically, as Sony finally wrapped up a big acquisition in Blighty. Here are five important data points from the past three months to lodge somewhere in that hippocampus of yours…

ANALYSIS

$20 billion: The majors’ milestone

At time of going to press, Universal Music Group was yet to announce its Q4 2021 financial results. It doesn’t matter: In just the first three quarters of last year at UMG, combined with the full-year performance of Sony Music Group and Warner Music Group, a magic milestone was reached: The three major music companies jointly surpassed $20 billion in revenue across their recorded music and publishing divisions in 2021. The stat was calculated and revealed by Music Business Worldwide, and translates to just over $2 million earnt per hour. Sony Music had a particularly memorable 12 months: According to MBW’s analysis, Sony Corp’s recorded music and publishing interests generated $7.5 billion in calendar 2021, up $1.4 billion versus the same number in 2020.

Adele’s 30 was Sony’s biggest-selling project globally (ex-Japan) in calendar Q4 2021

Sony’s annual music revenues in USD $m: Calendar year n Music Publishing n Recorded Music n Total (publishing + recorded music)

7491 6047

5766

4606

1725

1441

2020

2021

Source: Sony investor filings / Music Business Worldwide analysis

10,000:

Kanye West goes niche with latest release strategy Everyone has an opinion on Kanye West. That opinion may or may not include a healthy dose of respect – or, indeed, chagrin – over Ye’s decision to release his new album, Donda 2, exclusively on his own Stem Player. Stem Player, which was co-developed by the star’s Yeezy Tech, allows users to split music into stems, i.e. isolating drums, vocals, bass, samples etc. In a press release issued on his behalf in mid-February, Ye claimed that his company had generated $2 million from these Stem Players in just three days. With a $200 price-tag, that’s 10,000 players sold in 72 hours. Hardly blockbuster scale – but with millions of dollars being made, does he care?

Kanye West

225:

Sony’s long wait to find out that, yes, it is allowed to acquire AWAL after all

BRIT-winning artist Little Simz releases her records independently through AWAL

Two hundred and twenty five. That’s how many days it took the UK’s Competitions and Markets Authority (CMA) to provisionally clear Sony Music’s acquisition of AWAL from Kobalt Music Group. The CMA opened its inquiry on July 1, 2021. That inquiry then moved into the more serious Phase Two stage in September, before, on February 11 this year, the CMA greenlit Sony’s acquisition. Sony Music paid $430 million for both AWAL and Kobalt Neighbouring Rights in a deal struck in early 2021. The CMA is now turning its attention towards a market study (not the same thing as an investigation) into the wider UK streaming market. We will be watching it closely…

ANALYSIS

$750 million: Music’s latest big-money fund is go

The BlackRock/Warner/Influence team for the new fund

It seems like barely a week goes by these days without a new copyright-acquiring fund cropping up. But the most recent big-money arrival has a few head-turning features: Warner Music has teamed with BlackRock to launch a new fund worth $750 million. That money will be spent by US-based Influence Media, which has already deployed some $300 million of it, according to the Wall Street Journal – including the purchase of rights from songwriter/producer, Tainy. The following sentence deserves a touch of (grammatical) capitalisation: BlackRock, across its global portfolio, looks after $10 TRILLION in assets. Influence Media is led by its founder and CoManaging Partner Lylette Pizarro, and its CoManaging Partner Lynn Hazan.

58%:

The number that reflects a very lucrative year for BTS’s music biz home Who was the world’s biggest recording artist in terms of revenue generation in 2021 and in 2020? BTS. According to the IFPI’s latest Global Recording Artist of the Year Award, the Korean boyband beat all-comers to once again claim the annual crown last year. There were two British acts in the IFPI’s Top 10 for 2021: Adele (at No.3) and Ed Sheeran (at No.5), which is a step up on 2020, when there were… zero. It makes sense, then, that BTS helped drive record financial results for BTS’s label/management home, HYBE, in 2021. According to investor filings, HYBE generated over USD $1 billion in revenues last year… a number that was up by a whopping 58% year-on-year.

BTS with their IFPI Award

BPI Chief Executive Geoff Taylor outlines five goals and measures he would like the industry to adopt, including a ‘BRIT School for the North’, environmental responsibility and unity across sometimes fractious sectors…

FEATURE

n My Manifesto, we ask a wide range of execs to play the role of politician. For some, it’s more of a stretch than others. For Geoff Taylor, you suspect, it’s not a huge leap. As the CEO of the BPI, he advocates for the biggest record companies’ shared goals, but also deals with their differing opinions and big personalities. He may not be a real politician, but realpolitik is undoubtedly part of his job. It’s perhaps no surprise then that Taylor’s five-point Manifesto below is not only well argued, joined-up and focused on business and infrastructure – but also achievable (another clue that he’s not an actual politician). And yes, he does tackle the streaming pay-out debate (“an almost cartoonish tale of goodies and baddies”), but that’s in Point Five. To paraphrase Adele’s request to Spotify, no skipping…

1. Making British music global

We have an enviable record of breaking British acts around the world, and right now with Adele and Ed Sheeran topping global charts, there’s every reason to feel good about the UK’s export success. We have less than 1% of the world’s population, yet 1 in 10 global streams are by a British artist. Yet despite other brilliant recent successes, such as Dave, Dua Lipa and Glass Animals, the reality is that as the streaming business becomes ever more global, competition is intensifying. As MBW has reported, the global market share of UK artists has slipped from 17% in 2015 to around 10% now. Algorithmic curation of playlists is strengthening the grip of music from strong cultures with larger populations, such as the US and Latin America, while home-grown rap dominates the charts in many countries, making it harder for overseas acts to penetrate. The UK’s fastest-growing genre of the last few years, British rap and grime – some notable exceptions aside – has also proved harder to break internationally

than most other genres. The stakes have never been higher. As The BPI reported in its ‘All Around the World’ report last year, the global recorded music industry is forecast to grow to over $40 billion by 2030, as developing markets surge in value. Annual overseas earnings for UK labels could double to more than £1 billion by then, if we play our cards right. Think how much more label A&R and marketing investment into artists and new music that could help fund. That’s where export support comes in. To seize this opportunity, we need a significant expansion in the UK’s successful Music Export Growth Scheme. Since launching in 2014, MEGS has awarded over £4 million to around 300 largely independentlysigned artists, generating over £51 million in UK exports – a return of £12 for every £1 invested. As the UK carves out its role as an independent trading nation, Government should invest in a sector that not only generates an outstanding return but which boosts the UK’s soft

while also increasing the funds available for investment into the next generation of talent, which is the future of our business. The industry should be united now in its effort to persuade Government to double MEGS funding and support the global growth of British music as a key priority.

2. Levelling up opportunity for young people in music – and creating a ‘BRIT School of the North’

Zooming right in from global to local, our second building block must be to help unlock the untapped potential of young people all around the country. The DNA at the BPI is a belief in the power of music to transform lives, and we passionately believe that every child should have the chance to play and appreciate music. I’m proud of what the BPI has been able to do to invest in and support young talent. In my time here, we’ve raised more than £15 million for good causes through the BRIT Awards, donated mainly to our industry charity the BRIT Trust. A lot of the money raised has gone to the amazing BRIT School in Croydon, which the BPI helped to set up in 1991, but we also support other educational causes such as the brilliant East London Arts and Music Academy (ELAM), where I am a founder governor alongside the inspirational Will Kennard from Chase & Status and now, Selina Webb from Universal Music UK, who are generous supporters of the school. Both institutions have inspiring cultures that encourage students to find their own creative identity, be that in music, film, games or other parts of the creative economy. In so doing, they also motivate students to work harder at core subjects which will aid their career. We need to extend these opportunities to more kids around the country, regardless of background, so our ambition is to use our experience and connections to design and fund a new creative academy in the style of The BRIT School – free

“If we don’t compete hard, the UK could lose its status as the second major exporter of music in the world.” power. And we should be imaginative in supporting MEGS with a dedicated music exports office, to provide essential contacts and strategic advice to music businesses targeting overseas markets and an ambitious programme of international artist showcases. Other countries already have support in place. If we don’t compete hard to promote our music overseas, we’ll be left behind and the UK could lose its proud status as the second major exporter of music in the world. Global growth of recorded music, driven by streaming, is the big opportunity on which the whole industry should be focused. It represents the best chance of significantly growing UK artist incomes

to students – in the North of England. This could form part of a new network of creative schools supported by the industry. Such action is sorely needed. In 2019 research for the BPI showed that state schools in England had seen a 21% decrease in music provision over the previous five years, while access to music in independent schools rose by 7%. The data also showed the gap to be widening among poorer pupils, with just one in four schools in deprived areas offering music lessons. Not only is this unjust, it inevitably weakens the talent pipeline of artists and session musicians coming into our music community. This means an effort by our industry, as well as persuading the Government to prioritise creative education, to ensure it is adequately funded and resourced, and to design a National Plan for Music Education that is ambitious and effective. Alongside UK Music, the BPI is engaged in discussions with DCMS/ DFE to this end. What better tribute to The BRIT School in its 30th anniversary year than to begin the work to establish an exciting, new academic institution, reflecting its vision and values, in one of the powerhouse cities of the North?

member labels on equality and inclusion, worked with DiVA to create the BRIT Trust-funded BRITs Apprentice Scheme to provide more industry opportunities for young executives, and taken action to improve diversity at board level. Other trade groups have also acted and UK Music’s reporting on representation in the industry as a whole shows signs of encouragement. But there is so much more to do. While there have been improvements in the overall representation of women within our industry and the numbers reaching senior level positions, and some progress

support in place to help prevent and address this, but, in collaboration with DCMS, the MU and other trade groups, we are working to establish guiding principles and structured support at industry level, so that if any individual feels they cannot turn to their own organisations for help, there are well publicised alternatives to provide advice and assistance. We all understand that true inclusion goes beyond diversity in terms of gender and ethnicity; we also need to make sure the industry is a welcoming place for individuals however they identify, including those who are Non Binary, LGBTQ+ or who have a disability. We want our business to be a place where anyone can realise their true potential and BPI will continue to work to realise that ambition.

“If we turn in on each other, we risk being trapped in the zero sum game of arguing over fractions of the pie.”

3. Building a more diverse, respectful business

The BRIT School and ELAM are powerful engines of social mobility, helping young people from all backgrounds succeed in a creative career. But there is still plenty of work to do to ensure our industry reflects the whole of our country and that it is welcoming and fair towards anyone who works in it. In the last few years, some real progress has been made towards greater diversity and justice in our industry. The BPI transformed the BRITs Voting Academy and created its Equity & Justice Advisory Group (EJAG) of industry executives to advise on issues relating to inclusion and intersectionality. We have established a wide-ranging programme of training for 54

on the gender pay gap, there is still a way to go. And one major issue has barely been addressed: the under-representation of women as recording artists throughout the business. Despite equality of talent, Official Charts data for 2021 reveals that around twice as many men in the UK currently achieve any level of chart success as female recording artists. The drivers behind this situation are, we believe, many and complex, both internal and external to the industry, which is why The BRIT Awards and BPI are undertaking new research to understand the causes of this disparity and then help identify where we can best intervene and take action to promote greater equality. This is the right thing to do as a matter of justice, but with the payoff that it will ensure we have access to the very best talent the country has to offer. We know that harassment and bullying can play a profound role in discouraging people and in preventing their potential from being realised. Record labels, especially those with greater resource, already have developed structures and

4. Using the power of music to tackle climate change

It’s not enough for our industry to be fair, it also must be sustainable and contribute to a better future. The COP 26 summit has put front of mind the need for all industries to take effective action to reduce carbon emissions. The music industry must take a leadership position on this vital issue. Music fans care about this. It means not just taking our own action to respond to the climate crisis, but using the power of music to help inspire others to do so. As a recorded music sector, we must first accurately measure our carbon footprint, taking into account all aspects of our activities. Then we must set scientific, measurable targets to reduce it, with a clear plan of action to achieve our goals. That is why the BPI has worked closely with AIM, independent and major record labels and members and other industry partners to launch the Music Climate Pact to commit to actionable climate targets on which they will report regularly. The Pact, developed with support from the UN Environmental Programme, marks a significant step in aligning the global

FEATURE

Photo: Hugo-Comte

Dua Lipa had the most-streamed track in the US last year with Levitating, according to MRC Data

music business, and the measures already taken by individual companies, around an industry-co-ordinated strategy.

5. Fostering industry unity to confront challenges together

Many in music have faced immense challenges in recent years, suffering the icy blast of the Covid pandemic on top of the uncertainties and new realities of working outside the EU. These have seriously affected the live sector, artist incomes and perhaps the optimism and harmony of the entire business. Yet I believe the right way forward is to unite in overcoming those challenges. If

we turn in on each other, we risk being trapped in the zero-sum game of arguing over fractions of industry pie. The more effective way to increase creator incomes is to work together to boost international touring and exports, and to grow the total value of the streaming economy. The streaming debate has become at times an almost cartoonish tale of goodies and baddies. With the focus directed entirely towards the position of artists and creators, the essential work and financial support that labels contribute every day to the success of their artists is often overlooked, as is the passion and commitment of the teams in independent and major music companies. As the discussion continues, we need to recognise that all parts of our music

ecosystem contribute something of value, whether artists, labels, publishers, session players, producers, songwriters, or managers. I believe that dialogue, respect and creativity can yield consensual ways forward and the BPI will approach the Government working groups with that mindset. Such an approach will be more effective and more flexible than clumsy interventions that risk prejudicing the future, by making the UK an unattractive place to invest in music. A healthy recipe for British music requires entrepreneurialism, risk-taking and investment, as well as talent – plus the vital antioxidants of trust and collaboration. As we set off in the long global streaming race, we’ll need all these ingredients to power our way to the podium. n 55

‘I LOVE THE PRESSURE, I LOVE THE DEALS, I LOVE THE WIN’ MBUK’s partnership with the excellent Did Ya Know? podcast continues, with Adrian Sykes interviewing Atlantic Records’ Rich Castillo about his experiences, ambitions, passions and gripes within the UK music industry…

ich Castillo and his three siblings were raised in Nottingham in the eighties and nineties by their single

mother. It was an upbringing that taught him important lessons and instilled core values. He says: “My dad had left before I was born, so I grew up with a bit of resentment in that sense. I always felt like my mum had to constantly do the job of two people. And if she could do that, then I’ve always thought I’ve never really got that much to complain about.” Even now, one of the things he enjoys about the record business is when things go wrong. “I always manage to find some sort of pleasure in the process of rectifying situations. I feel like I’m just cut out to do this, because of my character, and what has happened in my life to date.” And also, you suspect, because he’s rarely dealing with what the real world would call actual problems. There were also lessons to learn and plenty to absorb outside the family home: “We have a really good palette of culture in Nottingham. We’ve got a big Jamaican community, a big Indian and Pakistani community; I grew up around a lot of diversity. “I also went to a Baptist church, so I was raised around gospel music. And my mum, being Jamaican, played a lot of reggae music. I grew up doing chores to Lovers Rock. If I heard Freddie McGregor, I knew there were jobs to do!” Having been in management, records and publishing (and a boy band, more on that soon), he is now back in label land as A&R Director at Atlantic UK, a label which Castillo describes as “the leaders when it comes to introducing domestic repertoire to the rest of the world”.

He works across the company whilst simultaneously building his own roster, including Tion Wayne and Darkoo. Career highlights to date include discovering and breaking N-Dubz, working in Canada for Universal Music, returning to the UK to be part of the new Polydor and a flurry of big name signings at what was then Sony ATV. Future highlights, he hopes, include running a label and winning a Grammy. First though, about that boy band… When did you start thinking about getting into the music business? I went to college to do a performing arts course doing choreography and music and auditions for local pop groups would come in on our notice board.

I think that’s where I got the music bug properly and at the end of the summer we decided to try and go to London and get a record deal. There were people worse than us doing a lot better. We got a book called Showcase International and we went through it calling about 200 to 300 management companies in this book, and we managed to get a meeting with a guy called Richard Park, who was on [TV talent show] Fame Academy at the time. He agreed to work with us. So we move to London, we rent a two-bedroom flat in Stratford, we record a single – and then he pulls a plug before the song comes out. We’re all in London, with what we thought was gonna be a massive record deal, and suddenly we’re scratching our heads wondering how we’re going to survive. We all signed on, whilst doing all sorts of other stuff. We’re sneaking into nightclubs, getting on guest lists, still managing to get drunk and live a semi-decent life on benefits. We figured out a system of how we could survive in London, literally on about £20 a week each. We were in debt up to our eyeballs, but we looked at everything like a challenge: London will not beat us. My dole officer eventually said, ‘I’ve got to put you on a course, or you’ve got to show me that you’re looking for a job’. I said I only wanted to be in the music business, because I’d got the bug at this point. So they put me on a course, I think they called it the New Deal for musicians, where I did two days a week of college and then the rest of the time I’m supposed to be looking for a job.

“I couldn’t sing, but I could dance, I was in decent shape and I could blag it...”

I went for an audition for a tribute band that were going to spend the summer in Spain, touring hotels. We were going to get paid what seemed like loads of money, we were going to meet loads of girls, we were going to have the best time. It was a no-brainer! And that’s what I did, I joined a group that got sent to Spain, to Majorca and Menorca, for a summer. We were a tribute band to Motown and to the popular boy bands of the time. I knew I couldn’t sing, but I could definitely dance, I was in decent shape and I could blag it, so I just thought fuck it!

Luckily for me, my dole officer also happened to be a member of the MMF (Music Managers Forum), and he heard about a role going at Shalit International. I had an opportunity to get in front of Jonathan [Shalit]. He quizzed me a bit, and then at the end of the meeting, I’m like, ‘Oh, by the way, I’ve got this group, we’re amazing, you should check us out’. Jonathan turned around and said, ‘To be clear, I’m not interested in your music at all, but if you want to get into the business side of it, I’m open to giving you an opportunity to work on a temporary basis here’. I said, ‘Amazing, how much money will I get?’ He said he’d pay my expenses. I knew I could creatively manipulate that to work for me [laughs]. What that meant was, for my first three months of working for Shalit, I was out every fucking night at gigs, on expenses, because that was the only way I could afford to eat. My job was basically to support anything the other guys are already working on, and the first thing was with Jamelia. As part of that I got introduced to Jamie Nelson, who is integral to what I’ve done so far, and not long after that I got introduced to Joe Kentish, who was working underneath Jamie at the time. So yeah, Jonathan gave me my shot. And obviously as soon as I started to show a bit of value, he took care of me, but at the start… my first salary that I agreed with him was twelve grand a year. But listen, I was so excited, I couldn’t believe my luck. I could not believe that I was in London getting paid to work on something that I thought was fun.

down, not complain, get stuff done and not be a burden, be an absolute asset. And what did you learn from your time working with Jonathan? I learned that when it’s go time, he really, really goes. If there’s an opportunity to win on a project, he will lean in so hard. When I was with Jonathan I came across this group called N-Dubz, and that was the pivotal point on my whole journey. I came across them at the In The City music conference in Manchester. I remember I turned up in a suit thinking this is how we do it in the music business. I had no understanding of what was okay and what wasn’t, standing there in a threepiece looking like Shalit’s sidekick! I remember sort of stalking this band for months. They already had a manager, who was one of their dads, and they had little deal with Polydor, for a single. But I just really believed in these kids, I always felt like they had something that the UK had not had before. The dad sadly passed away and the next person to get involved had to be someone

know I was doing it; I was just getting the job done – organising sessions, talking to top-liners, bringing in engineers, I just leant into it because it was a necessity. And by time we did the second record for All Around The World, there was no day-to-day A&R person. We would just send tracks in and they’d go yes or no. Then, when you’ve had a hit album, all the big guys come in and the land grab starts. I was leaning towards Island, because I was close to Darcus [Beese] and for the second record [Against All Odds, 2009] we went through their system in order to get a bit more of an international approach. Let’s celebrate the success of N-Dubz for a minute: one double Platinum album, one Platinum album, two No. 1 singles and six Top 10s. It was a wonderful achievement, and that’s when you really land, isn’t it? Yeah, because people were asking who’d made the record with them. Labels are constantly putting out music and they need people who understand the processes and who can also communicate in an executive environment. I had a masterclass from Jonathan Shalit, I worked with a bunch of kids that really needed reining in and guiding, and this was over a period of four to five years. It was relentless persistence. Apart from the music, I’m dealing with the police, I’m dealing with baby mothers, I’m dealing with social workers… What I learned most from that was that our job as A&Rs and as executives is equally if not more so about making sure the person is fit to record and fit to be able to perform at their best.

“I was married by then; I didn’t want to be up at 4am trying to get people out of jail.”

Was that the point where you thought that a long-term career on the business side might be a reality for you? Yeah, definitely. Within a few months of working on the Jamelia stuff, I felt like I could add value. I’ve been raised in culture, I understand the pop side of it, I’m driven, I can navigate and steer people. I just needed to roll my sleeves up, knuckle 58

who had been around them and knew them. So, because I’d done that work, and with Jonathan having broken Jamelia and Big Bruvvas, it just made sense. They didn’t have any real champions within the label [Polydor], so we were able to navigate them out of that situation and then drill into a proper album [Uncle B, 2008], which was the first album that I made myself. It eventually went double Platinum, which is incredible. Your management role crossed over into A&R, which then leads you to work with All Around The World… On the A&R side, as a manager, I didn’t

Is that holistic viewpoint still prominent in the way you work today? I think so. And I think in black music, especially, or anything that’s coming out of a genuine culture where life is a lot harder in general, our job is to help them be their best selves. We’re looking at mental health support, we’re looking at financial education, we’re looking at supporting the managers around

INTERVIEW

them and we’re making sure the lawyers around them have their best interests at heart. I learned the hard way about all that, because some of the stuff we had to deal with along the way with N-Dubz has bled into everything that I do now.

Darkoo

I’m really interested to explore what you look for when you sign an act? Obviously talent is key. But I’m looking for ambition. I’m looking for a point of difference, and I’m also looking out for where the pain is gonna come from. What will be the problem? It’s about work ethic and ambition. The talent has to be there, but talent without the work ethic is just pointless; we’ve all been there. I’ve been super excited, and then the artist just wouldn’t want to see it through, because they haven’t got the work ethic. Where did the N-Dubz success lead you? All Around The World get a big label deal with Universal, and they start running the catalogue department. I stop being a manager, I go in-house. I’m married by now, I don’t want to be waking up at four in the morning trying to get people out of jail. I meet David Joseph, he’s supersupportive and he, Matt [Cadman] and Cris [Nuttall] bring me in as a full time A&R exec. It’s all going really well, and then I get a call from a guy called Max Hole, who used to be Head of International at Universal, saying there’s an opportunity in Toronto to go over there and basically help stop the Americans stealing their [Universal Music Canada’s] signings. That’s the long and short of it. Shawn Mendes had just signed to Island Records in the States, and he lives about a mile away from the Universal office in Toronto. And they’ve had The Weeknd, Drake, Justin Bieber, Alessia Cara and a bunch of other hugely successful pop artists coming out of Canada that are not signed to the Canadian office. They go directly into New York, because the advances are a lot higher. My job was to stem that flow, give people a reason to want to stay, and allow the Canadians to have some ownership.

I move to Toronto and instead of fighting the Americans, which I quickly find out is pointless, I try to do joint deals with them, so that we at least had some skin in the game And then what happens is that the guy who hired me left and I get a new boss, who was a lovely guy, but he didn’t hire me. And he came in saying that he’s going to run the A&R side, but he wasn’t an A&R guy, and at that point, I’m like Jesus Christ… So I hit up David Joseph again, who was always great, he kept checking in on me while I was out there. He was amazing and supportive even when I was abroad. The following week, I get a call from Ben Mortimer, who is just about to take over from Ferdy [Unger-Hamilton] at Polydor, and I came back to join him and Tom March. That was 2016, and what was Polydor like then, under new leadership? Between Ben and Tom, their mentality was,

we are going to kill everybody. We were like a pack that were going to go out there and just dominate. We all had to really level up. And there was a camaraderie between us which was incredible; it was great to be a part of that. How did you make your move away from labels and into publishing as Senior Director of A&R over at Sony ATV? It was interesting, because my frustration at Polydor at the time was that we were winning, winning, winning, but we kept getting new people come in at a senior level. I felt like the boat was being rocked regularly, even though we were doing what we should have done. Publishing was something I’d always wanted to get into, because of the focus on the writer and the behind the scenes stuff, away from the commercial end. I also wanted the opportunity to lead a team, and to develop people. That was probably my main reason to go to Sony ATV. 59

I liked the idea of trying to turn publishing into a bit more of a rock n roll thing. My ethos was, I wanted to turn the best writers into rock stars. If a writer had a massive year, I wanted us to scream about it. That was the energy I was bringing. I’m going to make some big signings and I’m going to shout about them. I’m going to make sure that people want to sign to us because if they do their profile’s going to go through the fucking roof. I think that we started that process, and in that period, I managed to get D-Block done, I got Pa Salieu done, I got TMS done. I was only there for six months in the end, but during that period we definitely got a lot of signings in. Before we talk about where you are now and what you’re up to, it’d be nice to go back and talk about what the business looks like to you and where we’re up to as regards a lot of the cultural issues that we find ourselves in, maybe starting with going into meetings with Jonathan Shalit, as a Black man, what was your impression of the music business back then? As a Black person, the first thing I clocked was that there weren’t many Black people in the buildings. Jonathan was really good at putting me in front of Presidents from early on, but whenever I went into these places, you never used to see black people working there. And so, for Black culture, Black music, to be heard and to be taken seriously… It was a time when it was all guitar bands. Someone said to me recently, people like to sign a reflection of themselves, because if they don’t, then they don’t understand it, which I think is part of what was going on then. I think a lot of these executives didn’t really understand or appreciate Black culture, and therefore weren’t interested in supporting it. But I’ve always looked at everything as an opportunity, and I figured, okay, if no one is that, then maybe I could be that. Maybe I’m the person, maybe I’m part of that transition. Maybe me coming here today is the first step towards it not being like this. 60

Tion Wayne

As frustrating as it was, I was always like, how can I make this work for me? So that’s what I did. But it wasn’t right. And even now, at the three major companies, there isn’t a Black person leading any of them. There are a few Black presidents, but comparative to what we’re doing in the business, definitely not enough. Is it going to change? It has to, yeah. In your formative years, who were the people that you looked up to and who you went to for advice? Darcus, definitely. There have been times when I’ve called him and needed to speak to him and he’s always made time for me, talked me off the ledge or stopped me from really cussing someone out, he’s been brilliant. Joe Kentish is someone who I saw from very early, doing really well, and who gets it. He’s amazing and he always finds time for people. [Warner Music’s] Trenton

[Harrison-Lewis] has always been super, super helpful. There are other people, but for me personally, these are the people I go to if I’ve got a problem. [Stellar Songs founders] Danny D and Tim [Blacksmith] are also always really helpful, they give good counsel. Do you think the economic success of acts like N-Dubz has been part of the catalyst for a greater acceptance and a resurgence of black ambition and black opportunity in record companies? I think it’s contributed towards it. I think there’s loads of things around the world that have played a part, but I think within the UK that sort of success squashed the commercial argument, squashed the line of, ‘Yeah, but it doesn’t sell’. We could be, like, It does sell, so then what is it? ‘I just don’t like it’. Well, that’s not a good argument. So yeah, I do think it’s made a positive difference. But I still think we’ve got a long way to go.

INTERVIEW

Were there any challenges that you faced on a personal level as a Black person in the business? Yeah. And it still happens all the time to people, I’m sure. To have an understanding of what you do culturally in music, and then be told by an indie guy, or a dance music guy, to tweak your records, or to change your records, to have someone else gatekeep your culture, that you’ve been raised in and that you’ve proven yourself in over and over, that can get frustrating. You’ve got to understand that at a record label, the ultimate say is with the President. Your release can’t go out without the President giving you that green light. And some of the frustration I used to get was, you’re telling me to change this, but you don’t understand what we’re trying to do with it; I feel like you’re just getting involved for the sake of it.

And then having Austin in the mix, who has been at Spotify, has been at Apple, there’s nobody more informed than him around strategy, around data, he adds massive value to what we do as a company. And also being a fellow Black person at a senior level, who is able to move the dial on things internationally, I’ve never had that in my working life. I’ve also got a team of people that I work closely with and I have my own roster – Tion Wayne, Darkoo… You’ve been a manager, you’ve worked in labels, you’ve worked in publishing, which one would you choose if you could only ever do one? You know, I love all my children [laughs]. But the record business side of it, the pace

As long as I’m in the business, I will always try and help and mentor and develop and bring people through. Do you have any regrets in your career so far? I wouldn’t say regrets. I do sometimes wonder, if I’d played things a bit differently, where would I be? I’m at the age now, approaching 40, where a lot of my peers are maybe heading to President level, and sometimes I think, Oh God, I need to keep the pace up, I need more hits so I can get to that place sooner. Ultimately, though, I think your journey is your journey, your race is your race, and you can’t look left and right, you have to keep moving forward. I do sometimes question whether I should have done more at this point, because I’m quite hard on myself. But I really feel like if I do my job properly, things will come

“My dream is to win Grammys with artists we find in the UK, and who are world-beaters.”

Let’s talk about where you are now, Director of A&R Atlantic Records; what are you up to? Yeah, so I work closely with Austin Daboh, who’s an amazing person, and [Co-Presidents] Briony Turner and Ed Howard, who are incredible. Between them they’ve sold more records than pretty much anyone I know. For me, going to Atlantic was about the quality of the records. Atlantic have been known over the years for delivering on artist propositions, and not just in a single market, they’ve seen things through to Grammy level on a regular basis. And for me, one thing I’ve never got so far is that Grammy thing, and I’m desperate; I work towards it every day. My dream is to win Grammys with artists that we find in the UK, and who are world-beaters. Being part of a team of people that are so invested in the artist’s story and proposition was something that I couldn’t turn down.

of it, the cut-throat side of it. I love the pressure, I love the deals, I love the win, I love the kill. So, I think the record side of it is something that I’m just not gonna be able to shake off, ever, because I just love it. Even when it’s going wrong, How important is it for you to kind of hold your hand out and lead the next generation through? It’s everything for me. I can’t do what I do without there being better ones behind me coming through. And I think I’ve got an obligation to leave the door wide open. In fact, I’ve got an obligation to actually drag people through the door with me.

What ambitions are there left for you to fulfil? Obviously, I want to be a President at some point down the line, but I still feel I’ve got work to do to prove myself in that role. And then I would like, at some point in my life, the opportunity to have the choice to stop. And has the journey been everything you thought it was going to be, to this point? Way more, way more. I didn’t expect what I’ve had and I’m really grateful. I didn’t expect anything. I’m not from an affluent family. I’ve managed to go on nice holidays and buy a house, these are things I couldn’t have dreamed of as a teenager, genuinely. So yeah, I’m grateful for where I am, but I definitely know there’s a lot more in it. I feel like I’ve done a decent amount, but not nearly enough. n

This interview is taken from a new podcast series, Did Ya Know?, which tells the often unheard stories of key figures in the British music industry, and is focusing initially on pioneering executives of colour. The team behind the new pod includes Stellar Songs co-founder Danny D and Decisive Management co-founder Adrian Sykes. MBUK and our sister brand, Music Business Worldwide, are proud to be partners and supporters of Did Ya Know?. You can listen to it wherever you find your favourite podcasts.

WHAT I WISH I’D KNOWN Anique Cox is manager of buzzing EMI and Motown signing Bree Runway. Cox joined the music industry as a PR intern for Island Records before moving into marketing at EMI, where she met BRIT-nominated Runway, for whom she is predicting global domination. Here, Cox details the lessons she wishes she’d known before starting her career in management... I wish I’d known that a lot of being a manager sometimes can’t be prepared for. It’s all about being reactive and just rolling with the punches. There are several examples of that from last year — one is how Bree and Khalid met and came together. Next thing you know they are in the studio and have recorded a song. That just happened. Another example is while we were quarantining in Mexico to get to America, I received a call with an offer for Bree to perform at the BET Awards and had about three to four weeks from the phone call to when the ceremony was happening. That was a testing time because Bree didn’t have a visa. So, very quickly, I had to get into that with an American attorney. Everyone told me it was impossible and had never been done before — to get a visa within three weeks — but we managed to do it, with a lot of back and forth. We had to fly back to Mexico from LA to activate the visa and there was going to be a possible interview. There was a lot happening throughout all of that and it was a very quick turnaround. These are the things that you can’t be prepared for. I had nerves going into management because Bree is in such an exciting place and I felt a lot of pressure to deliver for her and help her get to where she deserves to be, which is global domination. I did everything I could to try and learn as much as I could. I’m part of the Music Managers’ Forum, which is a great source of support for finding out insights and perspectives and having a knowledgeable community to lean on. But the excitement is just getting in the thick of it, diving into the deep end and getting on with it in real time. With management, there is no job description and every day is different. Half the time it’s just about being proactive, reactive and pre-emptive. 62

“A lot of being a manager can’t be prepared for.”

The second thing I wish I’d known is that while there are a growing number of women in senior positions in the music industry, there are still significantly less women than men in positions of power and leadership roles. I wish I’d been prepared for the fact that I have to prove myself above and beyond and that it would be harder to get support, encouragement and recognition. Bree is in a very pressured position right now and, typically, you might see a bigger management company with older men who have more experience leading the way. That’s the formula a lot of people see as a recipe for success.

FEATURE

I’m not a reflection of that. I’m a mixed race girl from a small northern town and I’m 28-yearsold. So I sometimes find myself in positions where that is a little bit difficult with people who have doubted or questioned me, only later to discover my instinct was right. As a result, management is definitely hardening me compared to how I was at EMI as a marketing manager. I’m a nice person and think it’s important to get on with everybody because when you’re aligned and in a good space with people, you’re going to see the best results. I go into everything with a lot of support but if I’m forced into a position where I need to be bad cop, you’re going to see a different side to me. The good thing is that I’m fortunate to be working with an artist who doesn’t conform. Everything in and around Bree is quite unconventional — her creativity, vision and approach to music. Therefore, everything needs to be in service of that, rather than making her conform to industry norms. That unique sense of pushing boundaries and challenging convention is reflected in her team and her collaborators, and is 100% supported by me as her manager. Also, the world is definitely turning and I’m grateful to be working alongside some amazing women, including Becky Allen at EMI and Ethiopia Habtemariam at Motown. And Bree has two female A&Rs at Motown who are leading the charge. I’d love to see more of that. There is a new wave of managers and talent in the industry that needs to get a bit more of a push, especially females. The third thing I wish I’d known is that work/ life balance and personal wellbeing are crucial commodities. That’s something I’m still trying to figure out! Last year, I didn’t have a holiday apart from in December, which feels like the only time the music industry shuts down. But a break is very important, especially at such an early stage of your career, because if you don’t take it, you will just continue to work in a certain way and before you know it, you’ll burn out. I do feel like I’ve always just worked super hard and gone above and beyond. Last year, I faced a few trials and tribulations in terms of personal health. I wouldn’t say it was necessarily the result of working, but it did make me take a step back and reevaluate how I’m looking after and prioritising myself. It’s tricky sometimes as a manager because, ultimately, the

Bree Runway

number one priority is the artist, and I’m the sort of person who will do anything for Bree. I definitely need to do more to get that balance right and make sure I’m looking after myself. I’ve started doing simple things, like if it gets to nine o’clock and I’m still on email, I’ll turn my phone off. Sending that email at nine o’clock is not going to change anything before 10am the next day. It’s about getting better with boundaries and knowing when to say no, which makes the ‘yes’ all the more meaningful. Anique Cox was interviewed by Rhian Jones. 63

‘YOU GO INTO THE STUDIO AND ALL OF YOUR PLANS FALL BY THE WAYSIDE, BECAUSE SOMETHING JUST REVEALS ITSELF’ Fred Again is a producer who has worked with the likes of BTS and Stormzy, and an artist who has been nominated for a BRIT. But he is best known and most successful as Ed Sheeran’s production and writing partner. He tells MBUK about being mentored by Brian Eno, working on = and his creative ethos…

ou’re a young producer. You’re interested in hits and success, but also in the nature and possibilities of sound. You want to collaborate with a range of artists, across a variety of genres and you’re most often happy to be the guy in the booth rather than on the cover. But you also want to pursue your own, slightly more experimental projects, away from the spotlight and further from the mainstream. Who do you want as your mentor? Well, Brian Eno, obviously, the man who created that template. But, be realistic. Or, be Fred Gibson – otherwise known as British super-producer, Fred Again. The co-writer and producer on Ed Sheeran’s last two albums, Collaborations Project No. 6 (2019) and = (2021) (both of which went to No. 1 in the US and the UK), Fred has also worked with Stormzy, BTS and Romy from The xx. His first credits, however, came on Eno’s two back-to-back collaborations with Underworld’s Karl Hyde, Someday World and High Life, released in 2014. He co-produced both records in their entirety, with Eno, aged just 20. Five years later, Fred had either a writing or production credit on a staggering 30% of all the UK’s number one singles that year and, not surprisingly, was named Best Producer at that year’s BRITs. A year later, in 2020, he released his first solo album, Actual Life, followed by the acclaimed sequel, Actual Life 2 in 2021. His importance within Sheeran’s current creative team, meanwhile, is illustrated by the fact that on No. 6 he produced 12 out of the 15 tracks (including collaborations with Khalid, Cardi 64

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Ed Sheeran

B, Chance The Rapper, Justin Bieber, Travis Scott, Eminem and H.E.R.), while on = he has credits on nine out of 14. Fred tells MBUK about the two most important introductions of his life, becoming one of the most in-demand producers in the world in his twenties, and why there should be no such thing as an off day. Even if you’re having an off day… How did your big break come about? It came about through no intention or plan on my part, that’s for sure. I was working on a bunch of different projects, and I was working with Brian Eno a lot. Some of the people we were working with fell away, one of them moved, one of them became unwell, and they were all duos, so I stepped into these collaborations and ended up focusing on that for four or five years or so.

We met when I was 16. I did a concert of this piece that I very grandly called an Electronic Symphony, for an orchestra, a band and some rappers. Brian came, he was invited by a friend of a friend. It was just a beautiful coincidence. He asked me to join his singing group and we became very good friends. I was working on stuff with him and he would help me with it. And then we made the albums with Karl Hyde from Underworld. It was a real blessing. We’re still very close to this day.

“The most fascinating thing to me about Brian [Eno] is he’s like a kid.”

We have to go back and ask how you came to be ‘working with Brian Eno a lot’?! 66

It must have been hard to believe that, almost by chance, as an aspiring producer, you’re suddenly being mentored by one of the greatest producers of all time! To be honest, I feel that more now than I did then – because I was 17. Funnily enough, Karl was more like that, because he had grown up with Brian’s music, and with Brian on the posters, whereas I hadn’t. In a weird way, that probably worked

INTERVIEW

Fred has produced hits including Headie One’s Ain’t It Different, featuring Stormzy and AJ Tracey

better, because it meant that I wasn’t overly awestruck, I was more, like, come on, let’s make some songs! But, of course, as I get older, I appreciate it more and definitely become more and more grateful for our relationship. What were the most important things Brian taught you? Not necessarily technical things, but perhaps more in terms of the nature of the job. It would be entirely non-technical things, Brian would be happy to hear me say [laughs]. I think the most fascinating thing to me about Brian is he’s like a kid. And I say that in nothing but a great way. When I first started working with him, I was the classical guy, the guy who had the theory, and he would tell me to play something and then be like, ‘Oh my God, that was amazing! What was that?’ And I’d be like, ‘It’s a C-major chord, it’s really nothing to write home about’ [laughs]. But Brian would be hearing how it would sound and how it would work in a particular part of a particular song, he saw everything in a bigger picture. Originally, I sort of didn’t get it, but now, the longer I work in music, and I think this arc will continue for the next 50

years, the more I value exactly that instinct of someone who’s unaffected and not looking for anything other than how it feels. Your next big break was meeting and working with Ed. How did that come about? There’s a guy called Ed Howard, who is Ed Sheeran’s A&R. I’d been working with him on a few projects and he said he thought the two of us would get along, so he introduced us – and we really did! We have a very similar approach, we both come from the school of wanting some sort of discipline, working through it, even if you’re not feeling on top of your game. We enjoy pushing each other. We’ve both carried on writing in times where you just feel a bit like, Nah, I’m shit today. Because things can be alchemic, you can get past that level of feeling a bit rubbish and really good things can just suddenly happen. We’ve learned a lot from each other, for sure. Did you hang out socially at first or was it a professional situation? 67

“I’m just gonna keep making music 10 hours a day and work with people who inspire that process.”

We went straight into the studio, just because, again, the way we think is, we’ll get to know each other through writing songs, let’s kill two birds with one stone. We like to work! It doesn’t need to be too deep, we’ll just get together, write a couple of things and see what happens. And that was what we did, with the beautiful Johnny McDaid. How does the creative process work between the two of you? It’s basically always face-to-face, sat with a piano or a guitar and a laptop. We wrote all of the record before the last one [No. 6 Collaborations Project] with just my laptop and a set of monitors in a house in Nashville. We’ll maybe start something on the guitar, sometimes over a beat, sometimes just a little riff, and then go go go… The main thing for me is to not get into that trap of producing whilst writing; that’s dangerous. 68

I’ve found there is no advantage in getting stuck into production while writing, because all you do is create shortcuts in the writing process. There might be a nice loop to work to, something to give it a sense of pulse, but then that’s it, then you write a song that doesn’t rely on any big thrills or shortcuts, like production cheat codes. So, when you come to produce the song, you don’t have to rely on these tropes as much. It’s more like the song is doing the work for you, which is always a better place to be. Do you, Ed and the team have a meeting at the start of a project, to talk about the sonics of the record you want to make? Yeah, there’s sometimes a chat with some vague intention behind it, and I’m down for those chats, because they can be nice things to kind of frame your inspiration. But 99% of the time, what ends

INTERVIEW

of the biggest-selling artists in the world. Did you feel any pressure to help keep the run going? I mean, I feel a responsibility to try and make good music, the best music I can, with anyone I work with. So there will always be nerves of some sort, based on that. But it’s not, I don’t think, proportional to any scale of success. It’s the same as working on a niche ambient record, or a record with Headie [One]. From what I’ve read, there seems to be this interesting balance in Ed’s creative team between being extremely professional and hard-working, but also making sure it’s really enjoyable, is that right? Yeah, definitely. I mean, I’ve never worked in the studio with Ed… maybe once. We just write and work wherever we go, wherever we are. These kind of things, I don’t think of as being part of the job. I mean, they definitely are, but wherever we are, I’ll just rent monitors and we’ll get going. It’s not a complex dynamic to get right, him and I; we’re pretty simple beasts. I think the main thing is not to be in some public studio where you sort of feel the stress of three engineers wanting to make sure everything’s okay. They’re obviously very well-intentioned, but it just means that there’s a bit too much weight on what is basically just hanging around trying to write a song. With the latest Ed Sheeran album, =, what was the discussion like at the start of the project in terms of production and what you wanted it to sound like compared to previous albums? I think Ed has already said this, but we started trying to make the next scheduled album, Subtract, and then – and this is a good example of what I was talking about – the music revealed itself and it was a whole other album.

up happening is informed by what you end up just doing, which is generally kind of out of your control anyway. So yeah, it’s nice to have a little chat and everyone enjoy a cappuccino while we talk about what we intend to do, but, really, the music has much bigger plans and much bigger agendas than we do. So you go into the studio and write songs and all of your intentions and plans fall by the wayside, because something just reveals itself. I feel very much a servant of that. It’s like working with Brian, we would always do sets of rules and restrictions, which he’s so famous for, but then if there was a moment we got excited about something, about where a song was going, but it was ‘against the rules’, he’d be like, ‘No, just do it man, the rule has served its purpose’. What was it like being parachuted into Ed’s world? Because by the time you started working with him he was already one

How nervous or excited are you when it comes to release and watching how it performs? Yeah, it’s in the past for me by then. I mean, sometimes it’s six months after you’re done. And by then I’m so much more excited about what I made last week or this morning. What are your longer-term production ambitions? I’m just gonna keep making music for 10 hours every day and work with people who inspire that process. In the same way that I could make plans about a song, I could make plans about who I’m going to work with, but I’d rather just kind of go with what happens each day and try and work really hard at it. What advice would you give to a young producer just starting out in the business? Hone the muscle of discipline. Same with inspiration; it’s a muscle and you can train it to be much more powerful. n 69

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Andy Ross with Polly Birkbeck, Reading Festival, 1997

Remembering... ANDY ROSS Andy Ross, former head of Food Records, the man who first signed Blur and a highly decorated general in the Britpop wars, sadly died earlier this year. MBUK gathered thoughts and memories from a handful of his closest friends in the business to paint a picture of a legendary figure… Dave Balfe Founder, Food Records

In 1984, aged 25, I met a young woman who worked at WEA Records. At the end of our dates she wouldn’t let me take her home because, she said, she was still living with her ex-boyfriend. Nevertheless, as our relationship 72

progressed I began to regularly spend Friday or Saturday evenings at her flat, having been assured her ex would not come home until at least 11.30. However, still nervous about him, I always made sure I left before he returned. Weeks went by, until one night I dallied too long and heard the key turn in the door. I braced myself for a confrontation with this man, who’d swollen in my imagination into a boozefuelled brute, who wouldn’t be at all

pleased to see some strange bloke on the sofa with his girl. The man entered the room. He headed for the kitchen, but then he saw me and froze. We sized each other up. Suddenly, a big grin appeared on his face. That’s how I met Andy. By the time his ex had also become my ex, Andy and I had become good friends. He was then working for the Inland Revenue, but at night he transformed into his alter-ego, Andy Hurt - freelance

FEATURE

music journalist. Mainly live reviews for Sounds, then one of the big three music papers, and occasional interviews. I’d just come down from Liverpool and had few London contacts. So, figuring Andy had these connections to what was new and happening, I suggested he join me to help find bands for the record label I’d recently started, Food. I couldn’t afford to pay him so gave him a chunk of the company instead. At that point I’d only enough money to sign an act at a time, put out their first one or two singles while building up their press and live profile, then manage them and sign them to a major. I was midway through doing that with Zodiac Mindwarp when Andy came on board. We did it together for our next discovery, Voice of the Beehive, co-managing them and signing them to London Records. But both these bands proved very difficult to manage - the role of manager being, when push comes to shove, essentially advisory. Andy and I decided sticking as the record label would give us the power to prevent our future bands making the mistakes of the previous two. Our plan was to make a couple of strong signings and parlay that into a label deal with a major. This we did with Crazyhead, who we got to the top of the indie charts with their first couple of singles, and a new signing, Diesel Park West. Their impressive demos combined with Crazyhead’s rapidly increasing profile, and our track record, got us serious interest from several majors. We eventually signed a label deal with EMI. They provided the funding and distribution, we handled the A&R, making the records, and getting the press, packaging and general vibe right for launching and developing the bands. We’d even find the bands their managers. This arrangement worked well. Our next two signings, Jesus Jones and Blur, both sold in the millions. Andy undoubtedly had a talent for discovering and nurturing talent, but he had many other less remarked upon

With Dave Balfe, 2019

skills. Here are just two of them: His journalistic experience and writing skills combined to create wonderful band press releases, especially at the

clichés or tedious self-aggrandising, but in a clever and witty way that Andy knew would pique the interest of jaded rock journalists. In the alternative rock world, first impressions are enormously important to how a band is thereafter perceived, and Andy was a master at presenting the bands creatively and teasingly to the press. He was also the good cop. After many stormy meetings in my office, where I’d got on my high horse with some poor band, he’d entice the disgruntled bunch of musicians down to the nearest pub, buy them a few drinks and talk it all through again,

“He was a wonderful friend, who I loved like a brother. I miss him terribly.” beginning of their careers. He’d come up with some brilliantly entertaining and surprising description of the band that always managed to avoid the obvious

but in far more reasonable tones. He’d calm and charm, listen and persuade. And on those rare occasions when he couldn’t persuade, he’d come back to me the following day and fight for a compromise. He was great at this because it was plain to everyone that he cared about people. Andy was patient, creative, articulate, thoughtful, dryly funny and a treasure-house of obscure facts, both musical and general. But most of all he was kind and caring. But now all that we achieved together in the music business seems trivial compared to the good times we shared, the thousands of hours we spent chatting about music and all life’s myriad daftness. He was a wonderful friend, who I loved like a brother. I miss him terribly.

lifted from. Andy could just spiral off in any direction. Plus, he was unbelievably funny. Not to mention the fact he was a good-looking dude. Andy drank more than most people I knew, and yet never seemed to be particularly drunk. I was blown away. A little while later I was in Record and Tape Exchange in Camden and there was

analysing it. I was just like, yeah, this is what I want. I genuinely thought this is what the music business is about, this is what A&R people are like: intelligent, erudite, funny, harddrinking individuals. I found out, of course, not only that not everyone was like that, but actually no one else was quite like that. Because to this day, I have never met anyone who is even half what Andy Ross was. He was the person I wanted to be and I modelled myself on him. I mean, I could never be what Andy was, not least because he was a lot more handsome and charming than me. But just in terms of the way he worked with the artists, his devotion, his ‘I don’t care what anybody else thinks’ attitude, his unwavering belief and determination to see things through – that was what I wanted to be. He was a complete mentor at a time when I hadn’t even signed my first band. In the end, the first thing I did sign was Blur, and he was a big part of the reason I was able to do that. And Andy wasn’t just like that with the bands that he worked with, that’s what he was like with everybody he met. If you rang him up, he’d give you the time of day, you could be a talent scout, you could be an aspiring photographer, you could be a journalist just starting out – anybody who wanted a bit of a helping hand in the business, he was there. He was just an exceptional human being and really loved other people. He was interested in them and he had that amazing quality to bring out the best in you when you were in his company; there was always great energy and great fun. He never dwelt on the negative, his philosophy was always, how are we going to make magic happen today?

“His philosophy was always, how are we going to make magic happen today?”

Mike Smith Global President, Downtown Music Services

It’s interesting, because the way I got to know Andy was an early indication of what a remarkable person he was. I heard the first Jesus Jones single, Info Freako, which I thought was brilliant. At the time I was a talent scout at MCA. I didn’t know much about the band. I knew they were on Food, but I was so green I didn’t even realise that was part of EMI. I rang up the offices and asked if they were published. Luckily, I got Andy and not Dave Balfe, because he’d have probably bitten my head off! Instead, Andy told me they were published by EMI, at which point I just asked him to tell me a little bit more about Food. He was very approachable and friendly and said we should meet up for a drink. So, we ended up going out, and straight away I was totally in awe of him. He had an amazing musical knowledge. He was the first person who explained to me that Remi from the Stone Roses nicked everything from Jaki Liebezeit from Can, and then played me the loops that he’d 74

a poster up on the wall, saying ‘New Food Signing Playing at the Bull & Gate’. I just thought, well, if it’s Food, it’s Andy, and if it’s Andy it’ll be brilliant. I went along and that was the first time I saw Blur. The thing I remember about it more than anything else was that there were only about six or seven people there, and Andy was right at the front, almost on the stage. Damon was being very physical, jumping on Alex, smashing things around, and Andy was the one picking it up and putting it back together again. As soon as the gig finished, he would be backstage doing a bit of a post-mortem, and then he took them across the road, downstairs in a Spanish tapas bar and just carried on. I came back the following week. He introduced me to the band and invited me out for a drink with them. He was really instrumental in aiding my courtship of them. That was challenging, because Balfe, I think, desperately wanted to sign them for publishing as well. And obviously Dave was his boss. What was fascinating was just watching the way that he interacted with the band. I remember thinking, So this is what being an A&R person is: discussing every aspect of the song, being with them at every gig, every out-of-town gig, being literally almost on stage with the band, and then as soon as the gig’s finished, you’re backstage

Jo Power Director of UK Marketing, BMG

I’d just moved to London to start a job at Columbia Records and a friend asked if I’d

FEATURE

like to see Chelsea play at home. They were meeting their friend Andy – a big Crystal Palace fan. We met in a pub on the Kings Road. I found Andy great company – and he ran Food Records! Wow! My overriding memory of the day was the three of us stood in the Shed, Palace scoring and Andy jumping up, punching the air….before remembering he was actually in the Chelsea end, surrounded by some rather intense looking home supporters. His tall frame visibly shrank as small as possible as he peered around looking rather sheepish. Luckily those quite feisty Chelsea fans surrounding us thought it hilarious. Of course I then bumped into him literally all the time at various gigs over the next couple of years. The next thing I know, Miles Jacobson was leaving Food to take up a publishing job and Andy suggested I join as A&R/Marketing Manager. There followed a five-year rollercoaster, learning so much about the human and creative side of the business and having a huge amount of fun on the way. It was Camden in the middle of Britpop, and Andy and Food Records was right in the centre of it all. After I left Food I kept in touch with him, and of course Helen, his wife, and I’d look forward to seeing them both for weekend lunches with our ‘Camden Gang’. Beyond the obvious artists he signed, his take on the industry was brilliant. He enjoyed his job immensely. He got the industry and how to use it and never forgot how lucky we were to be right in the middle of it, how important it was to enjoy it for what it was. He enjoyed life and did things his way. I’ve never worked with anyone that people so loved coming to talk to and hang out with. He had time for everyone and celebrated the small wins, not just the No. 1s. He was hugely creative and he inspired people to think differently. Andy was intelligent, caring, understated, generous, fair, gentle, supportive, a great mimic, with a huge vocabulary and a brilliant sense of fun. He cared hugely for

his artists and those who worked for him. Also, his knowledge of music was such he could pick out where musicians had nicked bits of/been influenced by other songs like no one I’ve ever met. Great to have on your quiz team! My favourite memories are of the countless evenings sat on the little stage in the window of The Good Mixer, with an ever-rotating group of people coming and going to hang out with Andy and talk about music while trying to beat him at pool. There was usually a market trader or two from Inverness St and at least one person who’d come to the office for an early afternoon meeting and never got to leave thrown into the mix. I feel very lucky to have had those times during some of the best years of my life. Polly Birkbeck Complete Control PR

From early 1991 to mid 1993 Andy was my boss at Food Records. And one of my dearest friends for over 30 years. I first met Andy backstage at a Metallica/ Cult gig in NYC in 1989. I already knew who he was from his work at Sounds. We’d then bump into each other at the same gigs. He’d not long started at Food Records with Dave Balfe and it was just a three-

practically lived at the Camden Falcon), taking his side when he and Balfey disagreed on single choices and sorting through the Mount Everest of demo tapes. Andy listened to every demo and we formulated a ‘filing system’ using post-it notes stuck on each tape with acronyms which became words like ‘NOCOT’ and ‘GFWII’ (Not Our Cup Of Tea & Good For What It Is) and ‘ODOL’ (Oh dear Oh Lord: which meant shit, basically). Andy would go the extra mile and even take time to meet up with artists whose demos showed promise but he felt weren’t ready to be signed, dishing out valuable advice for their future. He would get excited when he uncovered a band who appeared to tick all the boxes, and with his best ‘This is it’ attitude would attend the make or break gig. I remember we heard a great demo and Andy was all geed up to see them live. The singer came prancing on with bare feet. Andy just turned and looked at me crestfallen and we promptly left. There was another band who had huge potential but Balfey wasn’t convinced. Andy was so keen for them to get signed to any label, he organised a gig at the Borderline and corralled a slew of industry folk and other A&Rs to the show. Unfortunately, the band had vastly overdone the Class As beforehand, ambled onstage and were a chaotic druggy catastrophe. But things like this didn’t phase Andy, he’d dust himself off and find the Next Big Thing tomorrow. As Food records grew, we moved to bigger offices in Camden and more staff were recruited. After nearly three years I was itching to get into PR and standing on the sticky floor at the Bull & Gate had lost its allure. I left, moving literally next door, from Food to Savage & Best PR. I would still meet Andy in the Good Mixer Pub for years to come and discuss the big issues, such as whether or not Badgeman Brown was Blur’s worst song. The music industry has lost a true one-off.

“I’ve never worked with anyone people so loved coming to talk to and hang out with.” person operation. I pestered him for a job. Andy initially started to pay me to go to selected gigs in an A&R scout capacity and report back. A&R clearly wasn’t for me after I pooh-poohed the Manic Street Preachers (‘they’re wearing Dunlop Greenflash!’). Eventually I got a full-time job as his assistant, accompanying him to gigs (we

Photo: Elli Lauren

INTERVIEW

PAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE British-born Ashley Page quit the major record companies 14 years ago to launch his own management company, Page 1 Management. With clients like Joel Little and Jawsh 685, things have gone rather well since…

shley Page, whose Page 1 Management works with Grammy-winners and chart-topping artists, never set out for a career in management. In fact, he actively avoided it. His dad repped acts including The Kinks and The Troggs in the sixties, and Page says he witnessed the job playing a role in the breakup of his family unit: “I saw how it was 24/7, seven days a week and he was never around. When you’re a kid and you don’t have a level of understanding… there was a difficult period. It was the one thing I said I wasn’t going to do.” Instead, Page – who grew up in Surrey and Devon – studied English literature and media studies at university and from there, landed a job in the warehouse of Castle Communications. The company decided it wanted to move into frontline catalogue with acquisitions and Page was offered the opportunity to join the new operation as a promo kid. “The first job I had to do, incredibly, was look after Mick Fleetwood when he came to promote the Live at the BBC album.” He was sold. After a few years, Korda Marshall poached Page to work at Mushroom and Infectious in the international promotions department. He joined at the tail-end of the first Garbage record and went on to work with acts including Ash before leaving to try his luck in New Zealand with his now wife. There, Page found a job at Festival Mushroom Records and Flying Nun, later joining Warner as an A&R when it acquired Festival Mushroom Records in 2005. Over the following three years, Page grew increasingly frustrated with the way he saw artist projects moving along a conveyor belt, and that’s where his mind started to change about working in management. “You see within the system how quickly the record is put out and moved on from, and the artist was just left wondering what was going to happen for the rest of their life. I was too close and too personally involved to continue to watch that happening,” he remembers. 77

“With one of the bands I was looking after, I constantly said: ‘All of these guys have really great and individual things going on… maybe we should offer them a label set-up.’ I was being pacified and told, ‘Yeah, sure, we’ll do it’ and then it was six months of asking three or four times. When nothing happened, I got to the end of the road and ended up leaving.” Page 1 was launched in 2008 to look after that band, who were called Goodnight Nurse, the lead singer of which was songwriter and producer Joel Little, who Page has managed ever since. At the time, Page’s mother had been given 10 weeks to live, so he relocated to the UK and spent every day in a palliative care unit, while working through the night on contracts. Since then, Page 1 has helped take Little from playing covers in pubs to writing and producing for artists including Taylor Swift, Khalid, Imagine Dragons and Lorde (for whom he co-wrote Royals, which secured two Grammy wins in 2014). Today, other Page 1 clients of note include Grammynominated producer and songwriter Drew Pearson (Zac Brown Band, Kesha, Phillip Phillips) and producer and songwriter SIBA, who co-wrote Griff’s UK Top 20 hit Black Hole plus Where Did You Go? by Jax Jones feat. MNEK, which has recently been climbing up the UK radio charts. Page 1 also reps Jawsh 685 – whose Savage Love hit No.1 in 16 countries in 2020 – and singer, songwriter and producer Navy, who has recently been in the studio with Zara Larsson. Last year, Page 1 counted two US mainstream radio hits with Regard, Tate McRae and Troye Sivan’s You (co-written by SIBA) and Tate McRae and Khalid’s Working (produced and co-written by Little). Page 1 also secured a deal with Hipgnosis, which saw Merck Mercuriadis’ company buy 178 of Little’s song rights. Despite the limitations of the pandemic, Page tells us that 2021 was his company’s most successful year to date. Alongside its base in New Zealand, Page 1 has presence in London, New York and Nashville. Page is planning on doubling its size over the next few years. That process has started with the hiring of Danielle Middleton, who joined from Sony Music Publishing as Senior Director last year, and Page will soon announce his first hire in Sydney, Australia. Here, we chat to him about his approach to management, his inability to fit in at Warner, his proudest moments and much more besides.

I read in another interview that you felt you never really fitted in at Warner. Why was that? Maybe I was too headstrong. I was talking to an A&R in America recently, who shall remain nameless, who had moved from management back to work for a major. They said they weren’t sure how long they’d last, because they sat in the first couple of meetings and were so frustrated by how limited the scope was and how some of the approaches weren’t quite correct to really obvious things. [Staff in the meeting] were so institutionalised as to how jobs had already been done within record companies. So maybe that’s the thing — sometimes you can see things that are so much clearer that need to be changed or tweaked and I like the ability to be able to go out there and do that. We should be able to change things, we should be able to speak up and we should be able to do what we need to do. Hopefully I push that onto my team. If Danielle [Middleton] in America decides that there’s something she feels can be done better and wants to try it, I’m fully behind giving it a go. We all have slightly different views and ways of doing things and I believe in my team and that they should have free rein to do what they need to do. Maybe that’s a learning that stems from where I came from.

“Don’t sit there trying to hype a deal to a level that’s over-inflated.”

How did you reconcile your personal adversity to a career in management with the job you find yourself doing today? I’ve always been aware of family being first. Even when I travel, I will never travel and miss my wife’s birthday and I’ve also never missed a Valentine’s Day. I take that very seriously — you constantly have to remember these things. The minute you start to forget is when you start becoming part of the system and forgetting why you started [the job] to begin with. 78

What, in your eyes, makes a good manager? The ability to be deeply empathetic but also to be self motivated enough to know what still needs to get done. You are dealing with, on a very personal level, very emotional people and rightly so — the greatest songs are written because people are emotional. But you have to be able to step back from that and complete the tasks, too. What do you look for in the clients that you work with? You have to be able to get along, first and foremost, and understand each other on a very personal level. This is a long journey — you can’t enter into a management agreement and then, six weeks later, find out that you don’t have the same understanding. When we sit down with a client, we say, ‘Take your time, let’s walk alongside each other for a while and work out exactly what you want to achieve’. There is no cookie cutter template to how this is going to play out — one person’s goal is going to be very different to another. Creating a three-year plan has to be done at the beginning and has to be stuck to reasonably tightly. Being driven is also important. There’s nothing to be benefited from working with people who don’t entirely feel like they want to be doing it. If I’m going to be travelling the world 365 days a year, I want somebody else to feel like they are up there, every day, working for us as well. You’ve got some extensive company values published on your website that centre on wellbeing, mutual respect and honesty.

What sparked the thinking behind devising those and the need to make them clear? Because we are a small company, I think you have to set these things out at the very beginning. You have to have all cards on the table as to how people are expected to work within the company. In this day and age, it would be a shame if they weren’t spelled out. While it is extensive, I think a lot of it should be common sense and about basic respect between all parties. It’s as much for myself and my staff as well as the clients — it works both ways. I hope those sorts of ethics are taken on board internationally as well. I was talking to similar companies recently where there are still some pretty sharp divides between parties and that’s quite difficult to hear. What’s your proudest moment as a manager? It would be hard to look past winning Song of the Year at the Grammys for Joel Little. I wish I’d had more time to stop, step back and enjoy that. In the moment – and I was looking after Joel’s family who were over – my brain was in logistics mode of moving one person to another place, to another place. I enjoyed it when Joel was able to buy his first house and when there’s financial stability, a deal goes through, and suddenly the writer understands that they now have an opportunity to push forward. I’ve also enjoyed the growth of the company. I think the proudest moment is possibly yet to come because I’m enjoying our expansion and bringing new staff members on board, watching it grow and create its own ecosystem.

Jawsh 685

Photo: Connor Pritchard

Drew Pearson

Photo: Yazz Alali

INTERVIEW

How about your most memorable failure? A deal that fell through with a band called Kids of 88 in America around 2009. They were one of my first management clients, we put out a song called My House and all the labels in America started coming in for it. It was a time when Atlantic could take us around the world and Sony were interested too so we were having meetings with them, as well. It was incredible sitting in New York with all these people coming into the room and telling you how the deal is going to be great. We made the choice, with a lawyer who’s gone on to do far better things than us, to clear the runway and just focus on one company, which at that point in time was RCA. The deal had got to that level where they were like, ‘Don’t worry, this is going to happen’. I remember everything going icy cold and quiet and then finally getting the call from RCA about three weeks later that they weren’t going to proceed. I felt like that was the end of the road, like my management career had started and finished within about a year. I think every new manager goes through that moment where they think they are the greatest thing because things start taking off. You’ve suddenly gone from New Zealand to America to New York, you meet all these people and you’re being told how great you are to then have that one moment where the rug is pulled from under you, the trapdoor opens and you’re hurtling through space towards nothing. It felt very quiet and probably the worst moment. You wonder if you can come back from that but ultimately, those great failures are your biggest learning curve. We didn’t end up with another 79

Photo: Elli Lauren

Danielle Middleton, Senior Director, US; Ashley Page, Founder, CEO; Rob Turnham, Managing Director, UK

big deal for those guys, so you end up picking yourselves up and moving on. Why did the deal fall through? I still to this day couldn’t tell you an exact reason other than they just decided not to proceed. And because we’d already told other label A&Rs that we were going with another label, when you suddenly turn around and go, ‘We’re not going with [that] deal anymore’, nobody wanted us. What did you learn from that experience? To potentially get a deal done a lot faster to potentially be happy with the level of it. Don’t sit there trying to hype a deal to a level that’s over-inflated. If you’re lucky enough to be in a position 80

where there’s multiple people bidding on a deal, keep people going until the deal is across the line. Also, you have good days and bad days. I think it’s the same with writers or artists – you see some artists come out of the traps and have No.1s in America right from the get go and then struggle after that. For me, this was a glimmer of hope at the beginning, the rug was pulled and I had to work my way back. It’s a humbling experience that keeps you quite grounded. What would you change about the music industry and why? I would like to see songwriters get compensated to the level that they should be. The reduction in rates makes things a lot harder. It’s a difficult world that songwriters survive in, where they are expected to write a song, day in and day out, and not

be compensated in any way, until it’s possibly released, and then potentially your part is reduced by another producer’s percentage, and then you don’t get some sort of an income for 18 months. It would be nice if, at some point, the service providers and record labels can recognise that without the songwriter, they have no song. How would you like to see compensation change for songwriters? I would like to see a greater share of the [revenue] percentage go to the songwriter, as opposed to having to fight against the digital service provider who’s trying to bring that down. It’s quite staggering in this day and age that you’re having to argue to be paid a little bit more for your songwriter, rather than a little bit less. That’s quite a mind blowing experience. What’s the most exciting development happening in the music business right now? The most exciting development that everyone’s keeping an eye on is to what degree NFTs are going to have an impact and which parts are going to stay with us. Publishers and writers will have to grow and adapt to that and actually enjoy being a part of seeing how we can be involved earlier. I saw recently that Warner has invested in the metaverse with The Sandbox so it’s about understanding where that leaves writers and producers. I think there are so many opportunities — everything that Timbaland has done is quite interesting to watch. There are

SIBA

Photo: Elizabeth Clark Lim

Joel Little

Photo: Jordan Arts

INTERVIEW

a lot of people who are leading the charge and it’s exciting to see which parts will actually end up continuing to grow and becoming part of our everyday landscape. What advice would you offer to someone starting a career in management today? They’ve got to be prepared to be knocked down and continuously get up. Everything is about the ability to work as an individual and to hustle for your client as hard as you can. That doesn’t change and that doesn’t stop, but sometimes it can become eye-opening how much you have to be connected out there, meeting everyone in the world. It’s a long, slow road to meet people, be connected, continuously hustle and don’t stop working. You will get some great wins and you will be knocked down but just keep getting up because the only way to continue in management and to continue growing is to find those opportunities for your client. Unfortunately, that doesn’t come by taking holidays so much and it doesn’t come by not being out and meeting people — you can’t do everything via Zoom, get out and see people as the world opens up. Also, trust your gut instinct. None of us internally here work on algorithms or formulas, it’s just about knowing your music, understanding, trusting and believing. I still think it’s as exciting a time as it’s ever been. The opportunities continue to grow, especially for us, otherwise we wouldn’t be looking at expanding. The work is there and the artists are as creative as ever. It’s fun. And if it’s not fun, don’t do it. n 81

‘WE HAVE LAGGED BEHIND OTHER INDUSTRIES IN IDENTIFYING OPPORTUNITIES TO COLLABORATE’ The revenue flow from licensees to labels to artists is dependent on accurate data and efficient management of that data. And the key to that, says the PPL’s CIO and MBUK columnist Mark Douglas, is collaboration… This quarter, I want to take a closer look at some key developments that have been taking place around the systems that manage the flow of royalty income from a licensee to record labels and artists. As the CIO at PPL, I will focus on the recordings side of things, but there are many parallels in the musical works side of our industry. Before getting into some of the specifics, it is worth looking more generally at the sort of systems that are used for this. In some respects, they are quite unusual. Unlike many businesses, very few of our systems are about repetitive transaction processing, such as you would see in, say, a manufacturing or retail environment. So much of what we do is about data management, trying to turn incomplete or lowquality data into something that is good enough – and complete enough – to act as the basis for allocating and paying out hundreds of millions of pounds. This is true for the repertoire databases that we all manage, but also the matching engines that link the reported music usage data back to that repertoire database. Not many industries have to put so much focus onto this sort of data management, nor do it at such scale. These type of systems have some very interesting characteristics. Firstly, the option available to more traditional businesses, of selecting and configuring a world leading ERP package, is not a path that is open to us. As a result, most, if not all, of the required functionality has to be custom built. Such custom build projects are typically costly, and generally come with a lot of risk around time and cost overrun. Secondly, some of the core functionality is difficult to fully automate. Developing software that can systematically and reliably determine whether the performer line-up on a particular 82

“Not many industries have to put so much focus on data management, or do it at such scale.”

recording is correct is difficult. Especially when you consider that the logic has to work not just for contracted, featured main artists, but also for the large number of non-featured session musicians. Determining whether the stated rights owner for a recording is correct is equally difficult. Using modern technology and approaches, such as Artificial Intelligence, can assist in the job, but getting it to make accurate, definitive determinations, at scale, is not possible. I know this only too well – we use these kind of tools at PPL and they certainly help. We have tools to help us group different versions of recordings into clusters so that we can look across them for inconsistencies in performer line-ups or in rights ownership, but they only take us so far. Beyond some low hanging fruit that we can automate, we need to engage human beings to make the ultimate determination.

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PPL recently inked a deal to represent US star Anderson .Paak for his neighbouring rights

Photo: Israel Ramos

And that gets us to the heart of the matter. The systems and databases that we use have required large upfront investments. But more than that, their ongoing operation is costly. Some of this is pure technology cost, but the lion’s share is the payroll cost for the large amount of human effort that is expended on a daily basis, managing the repertoire databases and matching systems that underpin everything we do. For a long time, every Collective Management Organisation (‘CMO’) having their own set of systems and databases was the norm. It was as if being totally self-sufficient was a badge of honour, rather than the result of a properly considered assessment of the economics and risks. To any rational observer, we have lagged behind other industries in identifying opportunities to collaborate and share back-end infrastructure, but things have been changing in recent years. Much of that change has come about quietly, but it is starting to make a very real difference. By shedding a light on some of those success stories, I can hopefully encourage even more focus on them, and drive even greater adoption. First up is VRDB, a project that I suspect many of you have never heard about. Initiated at the start of 2014, this SCAPR (the international trade body for Performer CMOs) initiative had nine of its largest CMO members work on getting to the heart of the collaboration challenge. At its core, VRDB has established a central repertoire database to hold a single and shared view of the truth on performer line-ups. It achieves this by having each member CMO upload the recordings that are commissioned in their country, or where they have at least one performer member included in the line-up. VRDB takes these multiple uploads and merges them into a single, shared repertoire database. Where one CMO’s upload suggests that additional performers should be included in a given recording’s line-up, this is notified to the CMO in the country of commissioning for approval. This alone is a game changer – it centralises the effort to determine who is and is not on a line-up and makes the answer available to all. Indeed, a requirement of using VRDB is that the CMOs must synchronise these amendments to line-ups back down to their local database. By doing this, VRDB removes the need for every CMO to independently assess what the line-up should be. It also removes the annual

“This alone is a gamechanger. It centralises the effort to determine who is and isn’t on a lineup and makes the answer available to all.”

swarm of claim files that were traditionally sent between CMOs. Importantly, it removes cost. It also improves data quality and therefore it improves the speed and accuracy of payments to artists. Unsurprisingly, it was not an easy project, and it has taken time to get to the point where it is now delivering real value. The obvious challenge of getting multiple CMOs to agree on a common set of requirements turned out to be not such an issue. Indeed, after initiating the project in 2014, a live system was launched in mid-2016. The hard bit has been making the fundamental business process changes back in the local CMOs to embrace a fundamentally different way of working, followed by the large volume of data cleansing that then has to take place. The member CMOs have been plugging away at this over the past few years and here, in 2022, a great number have now abandoned the old, claims-based way of working and use VRDB as their primary means of identifying the correct performer line-up on a recording. The second project I want to highlight is RDx. Conceived by IFPI and WIN, the Repertoire Data Exchange is a data hub that sits between record companies and CMOs. At the heart of RDx were three main aims. 83

The first of these was to make it easy for CMOs to gain access to authoritative data about recordings and their ownership, while at the same time providing record companies with feedback about how their data has been ingested, thereby gaining confidence that royalty distributions are based on this authoritative data. The second aim was to reduce costs and complexity for record companies by providing them with a single channel through which they can provide their data. This allows them to retire the plethora of legacy data feeds and formats that have evolved over the previous decades, and ensures that everyone gets exactly the same data. The third aim was to promptly surface competing claims of rights ownership in a recording. RDx does this both at the point of upload to RDx and also when that data is then loaded into a CMO’s local database. RDx notifies all parties involved in the conflict. It requires the conflict to be resolved and for corrected data to be re-uploaded. RDx is a big step forward in sharing and collaboration. And just like VRDB, it is also a big step forward in ensuring that authoritative data is being used consistently in the payment of royalties. But it is arguably only a stepping stone as it is not, in and of itself, a repertoire database. It is a data hub and pipeline to local CMO databases. Whether it evolves beyond this remains to be seen. The potential benefits could be large, but would require agreement and focus to realise. As the VRDB experience shows, changing the very heart of how a CMO operates, with its complex set of tightly integrated systems, is difficult and takes time. In many ways, this is a secondary concern. If RDx remains exactly as it is today, it drives out error, complexity and cost, and for that reason, its adoption by record companies and CMOs must remain the focus. The pipeline of both is looking very healthy and those that have onboarded are already enjoying the benefits. The final area that I want to look at is how we are sharing existing capability or combining data and IT system investments. I touched earlier on how complex and challenging it can be to build the IT systems we need. One consequence of this is that unless you have the necessary scale or resources, it can be difficult to do it well. One solution to this, and it is one we have been pushing at PPL for several years, is 84

“The rest of the world has embraced sharing capabilities without fear or losing relevance or competitive edge.”

not to attempt to build in-country systems, but to leverage existing ones. As I touched on earlier, many industries see it as completely normal to outsource certain back-office activities to existing, established players. Be it motor manufacturers sharing core component suppliers, oil and gas companies sharing exploration and refining capability, or hotel and airline groups sharing booking platforms, the rest of the world has embraced sharing capabilities without fear of losing relevance or competitive edge. Whilst we have been slow to embrace this in our own industry, I have really noticed things start to change in recent times. There are still some large in-country systems investments taking place, but I have seen a real uptick in CMOs looking to offload some of the heavy lifting to those that have the IT systems, databases and scale to do it well. The ones that have done this – and PPL now provides back-office services to six countries, including Portugal, Ireland and Switzerland – have gained access to best-in-class capabilities at a tiny fraction of what it would cost to recreate locally. In a similar vein, I have been encouraged by projects such as Soundsys. Led by IFPI, SoundSys has seen India, Indonesia, Singapore and Thailand pool their investment budgets to build a single system that they then share. Two other countries are in the process of onboarding to Soundsys, with a third in the pipeline. Shared development and collaboration around existing systems is, like outsourcing, a good way to reduce cost and risk around the back-office IT systems. These approaches can free up time and focus to concentrate on vital CMO processes, rather than on managing IT projects. I have talked much about sharing in this article, as I strongly believe it to be the way forward. Our focus must be on maximising the amount of money that flows back to performers and recording rights holders and not on building yet more IT systems or databases that already exist. Whether this sharing takes the form of backoffice services, pooling of investment budgets or in larger industry initiatives such as VRDB and RDx, this must be our continued focus. There has been some really encouraging progress in recent times, but we must not be distracted. We need to build on the green shoots of collaboration and sharing that we have worked hard to achieve.

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THE MOST EFFECTIVE MUSIC INDUSTRY JOBS BOARD IN THE WORLD

WWW.MUSICBUSINESSJOBS.COM

Sophie Kennard and Becci Abbott Black

INTERVIEW

‘IN 2022, YOU HAVE TO BE DYNAMIC AND GOOD AT EVERYTHING’ The co-founders of Frame Artists discuss what makes a good talent manager in the modern age – and how the music biz should evolve in the years ahead…

ophie Kennard and Becci Abbott Black launched their management company, Frame Artists, at a particularly inopportune time. The firm arrived in April 2020, just before Covid-19 hit the music business and decimated touring for the best part of two years. Kennard had just given birth to twin girls so Abbott Black managed the launch alongside two assistants, both of whom eventually had to go on furlough. By the time Kennard returned, her and Abbott Black took the reins and got on with managing nine artists alone for the best part of eight months. Luckily, none of the acts had huge albums or projects going on during that time so the duo didn’t carry the added weight of having to change major plans and deal with the subsequent disappointment. “We were really lucky in that sense,” says Abbott Black. “But it was very difficult and we grafted. We earned no money for ourselves and worked hard on getting brand money, income from streams and when the socially distanced stuff was possible, our artists did well on that.” Kennard says they were also able to use the time to do some of the more meticulous background planning that they usually wouldn’t have the capacity to take on. “We really leant into our publishing deals and made sure that the artists were making the most of their time in the studio. Sometimes, the touring aspect of an artist’s career takes up such a huge chunk of what they do that when that’s taken away, we’re able to go back to the groundwork.” As a result of that work, three of Frame’s artists recently signed big deals; Eats Everything has scored a major label

album contract, Patrick Topping has also signed a soon-to-be announced deal with a major label, and Melé signed a publishing agreement with Defected. In addition, at the beginning of Covid, Chase & Status re-signed with EMI for their upcoming sixth album and new act, Scottish DJ Ewan McVicar, signed a singles deal last year with Ministry of Sound for his Top 20 hit, Tell Me Something Good. McVicar is one of two new acts that Kennard and Abbott Black have taken on, alongside DJ Arielle Free, who presents on BBC Radio 1. So while Kennard aptly notes that

“I decided I wanted to be my own boss and have a better work/life balance.” Covid has been “shit” she also has some fond memories from the lockdown era. “It allowed us to grow Frame slowly and in a really robust way. If we had started now, I would probably not be able to cope with how busy we are!” Before Frame, Kennard had her own management company, looking after acts including DJ Boring, Melé and Chase & Status. Prior to that, she ran Chase & Status’ label MTA Records as Label Manager. Abbott Black, who started her career as a producer for BBC Radio 1, was also in management at Grade, where she looked after Patrick Topping (co-managed with Kennard), Eats Everything, Groove Armada and Richy Ahmed. The duo decided to set up their own company after Abbott Black enlisted Kennard to cover her own maternity leave

— they initially met each other to work together on Ben Pearce’s 2013 Top 10 hit, What I Might Do (Pearce was managed by Abbott Black and the track was released on MTA). “When I came back from maternity leave, my artists were over the moon with the work Sophie had done and suggested we work together,” Abbott Black remembers. “I decided I didn’t want to work for a company, I wanted to be my own boss and have a better work/life balance. I told Sophie I was leaving and she was like, ‘We’re doing it’ and so we joined forces.” Today, Frame has seven team members. Projects this year include new albums from Eats Everything and Chase & Status, both of which will be accompanied by significant festival plays. Topping’s Trick events continue to run and have recently included sold out dates at Cardiff Castle, Newcastle Utility Arena and Edinburgh Royal Showground. He’s also got a residency set to be announced with a revered Ibiza club. Groove Armada will be out on the road for their 25th anniversary tour in April and Frame will continue to build its artist brands, including Melé’s Club Bad, Ahmed’s Four Thirty Two and Free’s Free Your Mind, alongside Eats Everything’s labels Edible and Ei8ht. Here, we chat to Kennard and Abbott Black about their approach to management, female representation in dance music, and the dangers of social media burnout. What are your individual management strategies? Sophie Kennard: I’ve always wanted to try and let the artist be the artist. As a manager, when you have an idea of where you want [an artist] to be and try and put that across 87

too strongly or navigate their pathway for them, you might have short term success, but longevity is what you really need to survive in this industry – and achieving that is about maximising their potential and ideas. The most successful artist and manager collaborations are when you’re lucky enough to find an artist who has that original, innovative, genius artistry and you then help facilitate and amplify what they’re doing.

Chase & Status

Becci Abbott Black: The key pillars for me are honesty and trust. We are so tight with our artists — I’ll probably have 40 calls a day with them all — we know every single thing about them, they put all of their trust in us and we are friends. I pride ourselves, as a company, on being like a family. We’re not a big corporate machine. SK: Also, we say no to a lot of artists and don’t actively seek out that many new opportunities. We’re very proud and happy with our roster. You only have so much capacity as a manager to do the job thoroughly and we’re at a place where our creative bandwidth is fulfilled and we don’t want to compromise on that. In 2022, you have to be dynamic and good at everything. Of course, you find a good lawyer, a good agent and a good press person but, as a manager, our artists expect us to have an expert opinion on every facet of what they’re doing. We want to have skilled employees who can offer everything within our company. Some of our artists have major label deals but lots of them don’t and run their own independent record labels and publishing companies. Being as self-sufficient as possible is the route that lots of artists are finding success these days. BAB: Also, you’ve got to remember the artist is a person and their mental health is incredibly important. We’re really tight with the wives, the girlfriends, and a lot of our artists are parents, which we understand as well. It’s about getting the balance right of making sure they have time off and, if they’re away on tour, that they get the right amount of time at home and the travel isn’t too intense. A lot of our artists refer to us as 88

their mothers; I don’t know whether that’s a good or a bad thing! But it seems to be a good thing for us. What are the biggest lessons you’ve learned as the company’s grown? BAB: Put a paper trail on everything. There’s a lot of information to be taken in and some artists, who put all their trust in you, forget things. So if you do a phone call it’s about dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s. You have to be on the ball. There was a moment last year where we hadn’t put something in writing we should have done and that was a massive lesson for us. SK: I’ve learned from mentors that I’ve had or people I’ve looked up to in the industry to celebrate the wins. Life goes by quickly and you set your targets, they come and go and you’re on to the next thing. It’s so important to celebrate what you’re doing, whether it’s with your artist or colleagues, and we’ve definitely not done enough of that.

What do you look for in new signings? SK: When you find an artist you want to sign, they are streaks ahead of so many other artists that you’ve spoken to in terms of vision, hard work, ruthlessness, sometimes a little bit of arrogance and utter knowledge and dedication that they are going to make it. We had that with an artist we recently signed. Before we had even finished the meeting, we looked at each other and it was so obvious. We were so aligned... they were coming to us for our expertise, guidance, skill, connections and knowledge, they weren’t coming to us saying, ‘I want to be an X or I want to be a Y, how do I do it?’ They knew what they wanted to do. They just needed to be the creative and they needed someone to [build] them a business they could survive off for 30 or 40 years. BAB: We’re also music lovers. We still love going out, going to a festival and watching live music so when an artist sends a track that we love, get the buzz

INTERVIEW

and excitement for and want to work with, there’s no better feeling. SK: We are definitely passion-led managers. Our business manager would probably say to us, ‘You should stop being so emotionally involved in what you do’. We have said no to certain business opportunities because we just didn’t love it enough, even though it could have meant financial gain or added other benefits to our business that would have been a good move. But we are bad liars; we cannot fake something. We have to absolutely love and believe in everything we work with. Management companies have been taking on more artist development in recent years. Would you agree? SK: I definitely would agree, especially in the singer/songwriter lane. There are so many other ways to market these days and you don’t need a traditional record deal in order to find an audience. But I still believe that having a team of people makes a successful artist.

have and they are expected to go on the road DJ’ing, be in the studio making music, promote their music, and also get on social media and be themselves. We pick and choose certain areas to focus on; find your voice and what suits that voice and go with that platform. If your voice is on Twitter, go for Twitter and focus on that. Facebook is redundant these days — it’s a shop window that we would run anyway as the management company. TikTok is the main point of conversation. SK: Also, fans are intelligent people who can immediately see through you spending time trying to do it all just because you feel you need to. The moment that it feels a bit disingenuous, it’s game over anyway. Covid was a really good example of how you can make noise without relying on what you’d normally do, like being on the road or releasing new music. Your whole brand as

so they aren’t huge on there. So we set up a WhatsApp group for their super fans and invited them down to this free event we did at the Oval Space in Hackney, where we took away everyone’s phones and tried to recreate the magic of a past era of rave. We shot all the album creative at the show; securing the album cover, single covers, music videos and more from the night. For fans, it was a once in a lifetime moment; you’re on the album and single covers, you’re in the video, and you saw them play the album pretty much for the first time. BAB: It’s also about doing some blue sky [thinking]. During Covid, Eats Everything drove around Bristol in an ice cream van, playing sets. We had him DJ’ing with Fatboy Slim in his mini, driving around Brighton. A few years ago, alongside Patrick Topping, we came up with the idea of doing city takeovers — we would go and do pop up gigs in a hairdresser’s, a fancy dress shop, in the Guinness factory. We did a pop up on Trinity Square in Dublin, in the university, and had thousands of people. All our artists have a sense of humour and are up for a laugh. So it’s like, ‘What can we do that’s never been done before?’

“We are bad liars; we cannot fake it. We have to love everything we work with.”

BAB: As much as the management role is evolving, the artist has to evolve, too. With Patrick Topping for example, he started as a tiny underground DJ and now, as a team, we’re putting on events for 8,000 people and we’re doing that in-house. We brought in a production manager but it’s all done with ourselves. And alongside label managers, we’re also helping to run our artist’s labels.

an artist these days is digital so if you’re not on social media, how do you still occupy a space? That’s when this job becomes challenging but also really exciting because you have to do things other people aren’t doing and you’ve got to be creative.

I’ve been looking into artists reaching burnout as a result of feeling a need to maintain presence on social media platforms. How do you avoid that? BAB: Artists definitely don’t need to serve all social media platforms. A good example of this is Eats Everything — we completely removed him from Twitter. He likes to get deep into political conversations and was perhaps too vocal. He’s got a wife at home and two young children and it was eating into his life. We were like, ‘Let’s just take it out, you don’t need it’. There’s only so much headspace artists

What are some of the alternative ways that you’ve found to create engagement? SK: For the new Chase & Status album, we’re working with these brilliant creative directors called Crowns & Owls. We were thinking about how we pull together our diverse audience, which spans 18 to 45year olds. The music is one thing to get right but the creative is so important for them to remain relevant in a market they’ve been in for a very long time. While they’ve got a big audience on Facebook, they don’t love social media and came through at a time when Instagram wasn’t really a thing

What would you change about today’s music industry and why? BAB: More women. That is happening slowly on lineups — at Creamfields South, for example, every stage has a woman on it. It’s got to start from the ground up. We’re old hags and have been doing this a long time, but we’re encouraging all our assistants to strive for more. We have someone who said she only wanted to be an assistant and we were like, ‘No, you can be a manager’ and now she’s smashing it as a manager. It’s about having that space to incentivise and encourage women. Support is really key. SK: And having female mentors. While there are more now, there were so few female dance managers when we were both coming through. Also, when talking about the electronic music industry, I feel 89

business, we want to foster more. The industry is not going to change unless people like us actively try harder to improve it.

Arielle Free

like we’re not considered a part of the major label world. Something that Becci and I strive for is more recognition for our artists, for what they achieve and the businesses that they run. It’s amazing that the BRITs brought back the dance category and we’re very grateful to the BPI for doing so because it means that artists like ours have more of a chance. Chase & Status were nominated once for British Group in 2012 but there are very few electronic artists who receive nominations, and that’s not reflective of what the charts are saying. For what dance culture contributes to the UK industry, which is enormous, there isn’t enough recognition. On the whole female representation issue, I have a theory: there would be more successful female acts if there were more female A&Rs and managers working with them. A female act might get on better with a female team due to a greater relatability and understanding of their vision. Would you agree? 90

BAB: I think I would. We’ve just taken on Arielle Free and her previous management company were all men. Two months in, she was like, ‘I can’t even connect and have conversations. They don’t get me.’ There’s just a way you talk with women, you’re very open with different topics of conversation and as much as we’re behind all of our male artists, we are really like, ‘We’re going to smash it with Arielle. We’re going to get her here and do this and prove X, Y and Z.’ Perhaps there’s a bit more fire with the girls. SK: Females are underrepresented in dance music, 100%. We are booking large scale festival lineups with some of our artist brands and it is almost impossible to get a 50/50 split on gender alone. There are not enough females in medium to high tier positions in the dance scene. There are lots, but it’s very competitive; we can’t just book Peggy Gou or Jayda G, for example, because they are in demand, which is excellent, but there aren’t enough. As a

What do you see as the most exciting development happening in the music industry today? SK: It sounds like we’re banging the same drum but it is the awareness of women in the industry. Three years ago, we were not able to have conversations with promoters or label bosses about what they were doing to support younger women, bring women through or mentor someone. Now, we are having those conversations every single day. That is exciting for us because it’s something we feel really strongly about. Previously, I don’t think people thought it was an issue. It was just like, ‘It’s the ‘music industry’ or ‘whatever.’ [Developments] like the Black Lives Matter movement – as well as horrifically sad, tragic moments of people losing their lives to mental health – have allowed people like us to bring conversations about issues we have strong views about, like greater access to the industry, to the forefront. Final question: what are your ultimate ambitions for Frame? SK: We want all of our artists to remain in our partnerships, long term. We want to achieve their dreams for them and we want their successes to be Frame’s successes. We almost didn’t get a website because it’s not about Frame, it’s about the artists we represent. Through that, if we can achieve more in what we’re trying to do when it comes to supporting women and other female managers, great. BAB: I will add that I get to work with my best friend every day. We love working together and personally, I just want that to continue. We entered it as good friends and will leave as even better friends and that’s what I strive for in our company — for everybody to get that feeling of inclusion, support and love. We’re happy, we have a nice work/life balance and we respect each other. We’ve got each other’s back and we’re super lucky to have that. n

DID YA KNOW..., Changing the narrative There is a story behind all of us. There is a reason why we are who we are…

Did Ya Know… The Pioneers, The Podcast. The stories of the executives of colour that have led the way. Available from wherever you get your podcasts.

Music Business UK – Q1 2022

Articles inside

The BRIT Awards 2022

Caroline Elleray & Mark Gale Second Songs

Sophie Kennard & Becci Abbott Black Frame

Fraser T Smith Producer

Rich Castillo Atlantic Records UK

Fred Again Producer

Ashley Page Page 1

Ben Lovett TVG Hospitality