20 Questions with Simon Oliver Sensei

Ihave been wanting to do 20 Questions with Simon Oliver Sensei for a number of years now — primarily for two reasons: 1. His pedigree, knowledge and skill are second to none! This was self-evident from having seen him teach at Kaizen a few years back, as well as after hearing him tell an inspirational story about his journey and his teacher at the British Martial Arts Awards in 2018. 2. We have a common connection [indirect in my case] — His teacher Terry O’Neill Sensei and my teacher Erle Montaigue were good friends* .

With Oliver Sensei’s busy schedules [both family and teaching] it was difficult to meet up and I had hoped to catch up with him again at Kaizen, however, with Covid and lockdowns — it would be another couple of years before we finally managed to meet earlier this year in Nottingham during Kaizen 2022, where I had the privilege to teach on the same mats as him.

Oliver Sensei’s martial lineage is literally like reading a Who’s Who and his martial journey is no less. If I were to start listing everything here, it would most likely fill up the entire magazine and then some! My advice to those who wish to learn more [and I recommend that they do so] is to visit Oliver Sensei’s website [https:// simonoliversensei.com/wp/] it is highly informative and contains excellent information for martial artists!

Oliver Sensei transmits his wealth of knowledge in a softly spoken manner, yet fierce in demonstration and he is funny with a great sense of humour. In a world where most modern martial artists stumble from dojo to dojo looking for the ‘ultimate technique,’ Oliver Sensei brings kata to life both, in the dojo and the street! He is fluid, powerful and grounded — this is a man who has not only studied his art, he understands it as well and at the highest level.

* Erle would often mention O’Neill Sensei in class and publicly acknowledged him in his book Advanced Dim-Mak: The Finer Points of Death Point Striking “for making me famous and for his friendship”. Erle’s work and articles would regularly grace the columns of Terry O’Neill’s Fighting Arts International [see opposite].

LH: So, we are here with Simon Oliver Sensei.

Oliver Sensei, welcome to Lift hands Magazine sir and thank for taking time out of your extremely busy life to talk to our readership. Before we begin, please give a brief introduction to our readers on your background and the fact that you have studied under the legendary Terry O’Neill Sensei.

SO: Yes, Terry O’Neill was my Sensei since the age of 14. Although I have moved between different styles, he has always remained my Sensei! I get to see him as often as I like, especially after what we have just been living through. He’s not been so well, but he was a major influence on me and completely directed and changed my life. I would have ended up a bad lad if it hadn’t been for O’Neill Sensei’s influence!

LH: Well, funnily enough, a few years back I heard you tell the story about the car! Please tell us this story. I believe it is really inspirational about the true role and meaning of Sensei.

SO: [Smiles] Oh yeah! So, I ran around with a couple of guys and were well known as car thieves and one day we found this very nice Mercedes estate at the back of a building and it had a set of very nice alloy wheels on it. I was in the process of taking them off and suddenly I was elevated off the ground! Erm, that was O’Neill Sensei’s car! Instead of giving me a good hiding… he knew my father, who was also in the nightclub business — as a musician. He had seen me running around with these kids and I had already been training for a while in different styles before we moved back to Liverpool. He took me back to my mum and then the life began really because after that he gave me free lessons for several years and I was there at the opening of his own dojo, and trained with him ever since!

LH: And he gave you an option didn’t he when he took you back to your mum?

SO: Oh yes! Yeah! It was either I was going to go back to mum or I was going to end up in the Mersey [River], head first!

LH: So, you opted to train!

SO: [Laughing] Yeah, yeah! My swimming was good, but not that good!

LH: I find this story very inspiring! It’s brilliant! I mean that’s what the old teachers did — they put people on the right path! It wasn’t about, you know — “What are you doing? Nicking my car?” Boom! Being the tough guy. It was like, ok young kids — need some direction!

SO: Exactly! I mean he didn’t have to prove anything. His reputation was already established and well known and added on as these things are — to me he is a legend!

LH: Absolutely!

SO: And, of course, he lived the reputation of being a tough man, but if you got to know him, he was actually a very intelligent man. Extremely articulate, very well read. A great teacher! A great inspirer of men! The first thing he said, which was a great lesson to myself was, “I’m a human being, just like you and you need to understand that, but I have learned some things before you have!” And that is the real meaning of Sensei — the one who has gone before.

LH: Absolutely wonderful! I first heard about O’Neill Sensei funnily enough from my teacher Erle, they were friends as you know and knew each other. I believe, O’Neill Sensei was one of the first to call him across and also feature him in his Fighting Arts Magazine?

SO: Yes! The wonderful thing about Terry, which was completely unique was that he was open to any martial influence! He was not blinkered at all and he encouraged that in all his students. We were all taught to go train with everybody and anybody. Take what you can and make it yours! Erm, and that meant that we all had a very open mind and that came from him. His martial arts magazine featured a lot of martial artists that people had never even heard of! He was the first to feature articles on Malaysian martial arts, Indonesian martial arts, Filipino martial arts. He was the first to give an open platform to the Chinese systems and with some seriously senior Chinese martial artists! For instance, you are talking about your sensei — Sifu Montaigue was one of the first ever people featured who knew the in-depth study of Tai Chi and that made his magazine very unique. But that was him! That magazine was a complete reflection of how O’Neill Sensei used to think — and still does!

LH: Yes, it’s brilliant and having seen you a few times, you reflect him in many ways!

SO: Oh yes! I’m a carbon copy, it has been said — I just don’t have the abs! [Laughing]

LH: Oh yeah! [Laughing hysterically] I’ve seen that insane photo of his and often look at it and wonder, Christ, how long was he in the gym to get those abs?

SO: Well, the bizarre thing about O’Neill Sensei — At different periods of my life I spent a lot of time actually living with him — he had a problem keeping weight on!

LH: Really?

SO: Yeah, so he’d go to the gym and you’d be working like crazy to maintain some definition — he could keep that definition very, very easily! He always looked cut and I remember stories around Arnold and other famous bodybuilders at the time, they’d be jealous because they’d have to train like crazy to get that cut, but Terry could maintain it all the time!

LH: Wow, Wow! Ok, well here comes the fun stuff. We ask 20 questions. Everyone gets the same 20 questions and the great thing about them is that the answers we get are unique. There is no right or wrong answer… it’s just putting you on the spot!

SO: Ah… you’ve come prepared! Ok, Fire away!

LH: Ok, so here we go, your 20 Questions. If you could have personally witnessed anything, what would you want to have seen?

SO: Oh, Wow! That’s a great question. Several different answers. If I am looking at it from a martial perspective, I would like to have been around in the early days of Miyamoto Musashi. People say that it must have been an horrific time, but to have been involved with that skill of fighters, because they had a very simplistic view to life and to combat, and some of the things I teach in my sessions about keeping things simple, I see echoes of what is attributed to Miyamoto Musashi. The other thing is that I would like to have been around when Motobu Sensei was teaching. Erm… because I think he gets a lot of bad press and those people I met who did know him and having conversed with them, give a very different view of him and how good a person he actually was.

LH: That’s interestingly different from anything we’ve heard before. All right...What would you do if you were invisible for a day?

SO: Well apart from the obvious of sitting in Victoria’s Secrets changing rooms, if I was invisible for the day I’d love to spend some time around the Houses of Parliament listening to conversations in some of the back rooms, and to see if I could somehow influence them to change some of the things that are happening!

LH: That’s really interesting and different once again! As a child, what did you wish to become when you grew up?

SO: [Laughs] Bizarrely, I wanted to be a Rag n Bone Man! A lot of people probably reading this won’t even know what one of those is… it was a guy who used to come around and he used to have an old wagon, usually pulled by a horse. So, the horse was a big attraction — I’ve always been into animals and I get that from O’Neill Sensei as well — Erm… and he would trade a goldfish for any old junk you had. This seemed like a great job to me, I mean I didn’t have great job aspirations or anything… [Laughs] anyhow, I ended up studying law!

LH: [Laughing] Well, I guess there is a bit of trade off in that job as well! Ok... What animal best represents you and why?

SO: Oh, an otter without a doubt!

LH: An otter?

SO: Without a doubt! I like fun, I like the playfulness of an otter. I know people often like to associate with the ferociousness of a tiger — I think life is about being happy. We’re not here for that long and making other people happy is something very special as well.

LH: Definitely! I couldn’t agree more. You’re the first one to come up with that… it usually is lions, dogs bears etc, I really like that. Moving on…What is your greatest strength or weakness?

SO: Oh, ok… [smiles] my wife will probably disagree with me on this, but I think one of my greatest strengths is listening.

LH: [Laughing, we look across at Oliver Sensei’s wife] I think everyone’s wife would disagree with that statement!

SO: Yep! But, she gives my some of the best advice in the world and often I don’t listen well enough to it, and she is way more astute then I am, and way ahead of the game — so I think that that is both my worst and best trait. However, I do think that probably my greatest strength is perseverance! When all of the odds have been against me, I have carried on! Sometimes not knowing the reason why? I just have! I think probably my worst weakness is getting frustrated with my own failures.

LH: To me that is also a sign of a mind that wants to learn and continues to learn… it hasn’t settled and said well yeah, I know it and we remain students till the very end — learning… at least those who do it properly!

SO: Yeah, exactly! I’m in my 60s now and I still feel like I’m learning. I enjoy coming to these events and seeing all different martial arts… seeing the youngsters trying things out and when a youngster comes onto the mat, being brave enough to do things… I mean there was a little lad there in the session I’ve just done, following me around and watching stuff , and whoever he came with, he was great and came up and said, “I have to go now.” I’m like great, thank you for coming on to the mats, and to me, that’s what we’re here for, to create a future for other people.

LH: Excellent! What is your favourite memory of any one of your grandparents?

SO: It would be my grandfather. Wow… and its very apt — my grandfather, he fled Georgia in southern Russia. So, he was a refugee who came to this country and spoke very little English, but he was a man with a big heart — he’d help anyone! I remember as a child, spending many, many happy hours with him… A, he would try to ply me with the biggest ice cream, but I think that was just to keep me quiet — but my happiest memories were learning songs when I was a little boy— which I have now forgotten and is a bit embarrassing for me.

LH: Nice… these are some nice memories! How do you want to be remembered?

SO: Erm… well I haven’t got it at the moment because I shaved it off, but I would like to be remembered as having the biggest moustache in the business and someone people enjoy spending time with — that to me is a great way to be remembered. People miss you because you are not in the room anymore!

LH: Yeah [nodding in agreement]… What have you always wanted and did you ever get it?

SO: Ye-es! I was very lucky and bizarrely something happened last weekend. The only real material possession I ever wanted was a Jensen Interceptor FF Mark III. I was very lucky to have owned three of them over the years, so I got my wish three times, and then I sold one to go to Japan and I thought that I’d never see it again. I sold it to a guy that lived in Nottingham, and last week we’re driving around the Park Estate in Nottingham and guess where this Jensen was? It was parked in the same place… it probably broke down the day after I sold it to him [Laughs]… and he’s never moved it but no seriously, I sold it to him many, many years ago and it belonged to the same guy still, and that was very nice to see!

LH: Wow! Ok, you’ve partially answered this question already… Do you know your heritage?

SO: Yes, yeah! I’m very proud of it and I’m very proud of it particularly these days. I came to Nottingham from Liverpool as a student… I had come from a very multi-racial community. My grandfather on one side was Georgian and he married a Persian lady… Iranian, and on my other side of the family one grandmother was Italian and my grandfather was half Greek, half Scottish! So, it was a real Heinz 57 as we call it and I have always been very proud of that multi-cultural background. And as I’ve said, when I came down from Liverpool, the street I had lived on was like a United Nations because most of the kids were the produce of sailors that travelled into the port and had families there… so it was great, I had a very enriched childhood and when I came to Nottingham, I realised how special that childhood was because it was the first time I had come across segregated living! It scared the crap out of me!

LH: Yeah, I understand that. I mean my family is no different. My father married multiple times and my siblings younger then me have Irish heritage. We kids grew up and married into various nationalities and you can find virtually every continent in my family and when we gather in one room — English is the common denominator that we all speak and can communicate in… otherwise there are simply multiple languages being spoken simultaneously and that is special…

SO: Yes, it is special. I mean at a young age, I spoke a little bit of Russian, a little bit of Farsi and I spoke very little English. I went to school as a five year old and had to learn to speak English! I feel for a lot of kids now that come into this country by some of the most horrific situations.

LH: Do you remember any Farsi still?

SO: No, no! Unfortunately, I’m embarrassing now! My wife probably knows more Farsi then me now!

LH: Funny you should say that… you know when I was a kid, my dad sent me back to live with my grandparents in Pakistan and of course Farsi is one of the languages we learn there — like we learn French or German at school here, we learned Farsi and Arabic with Urdu and English being the standard language! It is a beautiful language, especially the poetry… it is out of this world!

SO: It is! My grandmother used to read me poetry in Farsi. It has some of the greatest writers in the Middle East… using the language of Farsi!

LH: Absolutely! It is considered the language of the kings!

SO: Absolutely true!

LH: Ok… Are you still learning who you are?

SO: Oh God, yes! Definitely! Everyday! My best teacher is stood just there [points at his wife]! I have learnt so much about life from her. We have got a very strong marriage. It has been an education, I was very lucky to meet her… she’s my sensei today!

LH: Brilliant… fantastic! Ok, What, if anything, are you afraid of and why?

SO: [Laughs] Yeah…

LH: [Laughing] Ditto answer to previous question?

SO: I tell you she’s the strongest! My big fear, my really big fear is snakes! I can cope with anything else. Having spent some time in Okinawa, they have a snake there — the Habu — the indigenous Habu [a venomous pit viper]… it’s very venomous. If it bites you, you have a real problem and it’s a snake that we will chase you down the street! I’ve been used to being in India and seeing cobras. Cobras are shy — unless you really trap or corner them, they will go, but not these things in Okinawa — they see you, they’ll chase you! They scare me… so snakes I have a thing about!

LH: Wow! What is the most memorable class you have ever taken? That can be either as a student or as a teacher.

SO: I think that is as a student… always as a student! I think my first class with Yashiro Konishi Sensei in mainland Japan was a complete eye-opener! I realised how much had been taken out of modern karate in one lesson! Was it complex? No! It was like an epiphany moment. Then, I think the first time I walked into O’Neill Sensei’s dojo… that changed my life forever! I would not have achieved half, no less than half of what I have done without that lesson!

LH: Ok… What book has influenced you the most?

SO: Oh, without a doubt, I’m probably not the first one to say it — ‘Moving Zen’ by CW Nicoll! He used to write in such a way like there was someone sat in the room telling you a story and it is a very simple story of a very strong man who had done a couple of major Artic expeditions, he’s done a bit of judo… goes to Japan and takes up karate back in the early 60s and its that journey to shodan, and the way that he writes is like he’s sat there telling you it and the way it changed his life! And, I think that it had a dramatic influence… it was one of the first books I read that made me want to go to Japan. Erm, then an older writer I read was Kazantzakis, who was a Greek writer from Crete. He was one of the first Greeks to write about Japan and about ancient religions and that had quite an influence on me!

LH: Quite a mix there… excellent! Alright, What ridiculous thing has someone tricked you into doing or believing?

SO: [Laughs] Ok, well the most ridiculous thing was O’Neill Sensei — when we are down on a karate seminar in Devon — convincing me that we couldn’t pay the bill and had to do a runner! Erm… and as I ran out of the restaurant, the whole restaurant stood up and applauded me…

LH: You actually did it?

SO: Oh, I did it! I thought we couldn’t pay the bill, so I had got out of the restaurant and the whole restaurant stood up applauded me — they were all in on it! So, that was probably the most ridiculous thing.

LH: [Laughing… puts hand on head in disbelief] Brilliant! Absolutely Brilliant! Ok… can we better that, let’s see? Who or what has been the greatest influence in your life?

SO: Oh, well, I keep mentioning… without a doubt Terry O’Neill! Always has been and always will be! He took a rough kid from the streets of Liverpool and gave him some good direction. I had great parents… my parents were very good, but we all go through this stage as kids… one of my own kids did it — they rebel in order to prove themselves. I was going through that rebellious stage and Terry came into my life and he guided me in a very unorthodox way. When I look back at it, I was lucky, I had two great dads — I had my real dad and I had a real sensei!

LH: That’s wonderful! I can relate to that… I can definitely relate to that! Ok… What is the craziest thing one of your teachers has done or made you do?

SO: Funnily enough this goes back to Konishi Sensei actually. Often I would go down to the dojo and he had no sense of time, so there was no set time for the class! You’d come thinking that you were going to be there for an hour and a half and you’d end up being there for six hours! And I think the craziest thing he ever had me do was to do handstands in the rain outside at 3 o’clock in the morning — just to prove a point that I could do a handstand because I had never tried it before, but we had to do it outside in the rain… that was pretty crazy!

LH: Wow! That is different! Ok, now think about this one because it is going to get published — When did you screw everything up, but no one ever found out it was you?

SO: Oh! Is this a confession? [Smiles]

LH: Yes, it is!

SO: Well, I’ve made many major screw ups! I don’t think anyone gets to my age, who has not had something go wrong in their life as a result of their own actions… one of the worst instances I can remember was a friend of mines’s wedding where I was the best man, and of course one of the duties of the best man is to look after the rings. We’d ended up on a stag night in a casino and used the rings to raise capital for gambling… so, I should be going to gamblers anonymous — and they got married with two curtain rings taken out from the church’s vestry that I had managed to find and then had squashed them down to size… put them on and I was in loads of trouble for that! I think it took 5 years to pay for them!

LH: Wow! Wow! I think we might have a photo finish between this and running out of the restaurant!

SO: I had to confess honestly… I guess it was a time when I did get caught out!

LH: That’s definitely one to remember! If someone made a movie of your life would it be a drama, a comedy, a romantic-comedy, action film or science fiction?

SO: I’d like to say sci-fi but I think for me it would be a comedy! I think I have got so many great entertaining moments that have a lot of humour to them. O’Neill Sensei has genuinely been a real sensei and the last big road trip we did together was full of incidents, which when I recount to my students on a regular basis are very entertaining, and they would me a great movie. We’ve done a couple of trips together since, but there was one particular road trip through California which I think would be a comedy and I’d like to recount that!

LH: You should! Put it down in a memoir or something?

SO: There is a memoir coming out, my wife is working on it now.

LH: Excellent! I’ll look forward to that when it comes out. Ok… we are nearly there — If you could select one person from history and ask them one question, who would you select and what would the question be?

SO: Oh, this is a tough one! I often ponder about things that have happened in history. I think, if there was one person that I would liked to have spoken to and have asked them why and this may seem truly odd — Adolf Hitler! I’d like to know why?

LH: Yes… you see, to me that is not odd. I understand that! People will find that odd, but I understand where you are coming from.

SO: Good!

LH: Ok, final question… How would you describe your art in ten words or less?

SO: My art… it is a representation of my appreciation for martial culture!

LH: Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! Thank you so much Oliver Sensei… I have loved every moment of this.

SO: Yes, and it’s been far too long. Let’s not leave it this long again.

LH: No, I promise we won’t. We will meet up and in fact I want one day that we can get together and go see O’Neill Sensei. It’d be great to sit and chat with and just be in his presence.

SO: Yes, I’ll try to sort something. He likes being the centre of attention!

LH: Brilliant… well let me know and I’ll drive up to Liverpool.

SO: Ok… I’ll do that. This has been wonderful.

LH: Thank you for your time.

My thanks to Christine for once again helping record the interview and for her superb videography which allowed me to capture and edit stills from the video.

All images edited and copyrighted © Nasser Butt 2022 Videography: Christine Batcheler.