DANIEL ARSHAM
WILLIAM HARDEN
RICHARD PHILLIPS CARMEN VILLAIN
G AV I N M c I N N E S
BILL POWERS
ICEAGE
free
P ho t o b y T h o ma s L aw
Ph oto b y J a r e d Bus ch a n g
In this, the second issue of Not Not Awesome, we venture down the avenue of diversity. It has always been our intention to offer insights and education from various artistic disciplines. Here we find ourselves talking to painters, sculptors, authors, musicians, curators and photographers. We first sat down with Danish punk sensation Iceage, four young boys ferociously attacking the music industry with ample attitude and a loaded sound. We met up with Richard Phillips at his Chelsea studio and talked about the effects of cinema, media and how he found inspiration in a hopeless place. Rock n Roll musician and former model Carmen Villain caught up with us at a bowling alley to talk about her new album “Sleeper” and why she doesn’t like disco. Gavin McInnes, co-founder of Vice Magazine and author of How To Piss in Public, took us to Gay St, found a Lamborghini to sit on, got naked in a photo booth and explained why he is happy kids are drinking cough syrup. We talked to artist Daniel Arsham about his multidisciplinary practise and if he would work post apocalypse. Plus we have 5 pages curated by Bill Powers and show the work of photographers Jared Buschang and Harry Harvey Gould IV. Rounding out the issue is Australian artist William Harden who shares a variety of his “last times.” Finally I will leave you with a quote from the Gavin McInnes interview - “I don’t believe in yoga, it’s up there with astrology and chiropractors. Yoga is stretching. It is not cardio, its self-indulgent stretching. It’s complete bullshit, sorry ladies but it is not exercise.” www.NOTNOTAWESOME.com @notnotawesome info@notnotawesome.com contribute@notnotawesome.com
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C o nt e nt s
ICEAG E Danish Punk Band Pages 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15
J AR ED BUS CHA N G New York Painter and Photographer Pages 16, 17,18,19
RICHA RD P HILLIP S Fine Artist represented by Gagosian Gallery Pages 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27
HAR RY GO ULD HA RVE Y IV Fine Art Photographer from Rhode Island Pages 28, 29, 30, 31
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D ANIE L A RSHA M Multi-Diciplinary Artist Pages 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37
BIL L P OWE RS Gallery owner, Curator and Writer Pages 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43
GAVIN MCIN N E S Author, Hipster and co-founder of Vice Magazine Pages 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51
CA RME N VILLA IN Rock n Roll Musician from Norway Pages 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59
W IL LIA M HA RDE N
C ontent s
Australian Abstract Painter Pages 60, 61, 62, 63
The band takes the stage. Unfortunately the lights are off. I could have been upset but it was an example of the very defiance that had brought me to their album. The very attitude that epitomizes attitude, likened to the slow motion sway of Jim Morrison or the “fuck off” of Nick Cave. The admirable ego isn’t one to garner praise from all sources. It’s safe to say that while quiet and unassuming in demeanor, Danish punk group ICEAGE have a presence and reputation as being formidable opponents when it comes to media. For a group whose grip on music threatens the very industry, it’s understandable they would keep one foot on the outside. I believe it to be true that when you find a sound which burdens you catatonic and brands you with a memory you have found something of worth. Iceage’s debut album “You’re Nothing” is an instant force, the perfect mess of aggression and sensitivity. Delivered with precision and honesty their live show is a fast explosion of youthful angst, a defiance of categorization and poetic lunge into an all out brawl. Iceage is comprised of Johan Surrballe Wieth (guitar), Jakob Tviling Pless (bass), Dan Klær Nielsen (drums) and Elias Bender Rønnenfelt (guitar & vocals). They approached McCarren Park looking as intense as they are young, what prevailed was communication, the second best way they know how.
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I was surprised to hear you reference The Dirty Three as an influence. ELIAS – Yeah, are you from Australia? I am, and when I think about bands like the Dirty Three I think about a box of Lego. So many bands will use the instruction manual to build an exact replica of the image on the box. I believe to be a standout and break the mold you must throw the instruction manual away and build something intuitive, just like The Dirty Three. When you began playing music with each other, how was the process in finding your sound? ELIAS – Well we just started playing and fucking around. Our intention wasn’t to put something out it was really just for fun. We had some gear lying around and through just playing we ended up with a few songs but we never spoke consciously about creating a unique sound.
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Did you notice yourselves playing like your influences early on? ELIAS – I don’t think we really tried to sound like any of our influences. Of course we were listening to music at the time but when we started playing together we didn’t know exactly what we were doing so it was very hard to replicate other groups. JOHAN – I think no matter how hard we tried to sound like something specific we pretty much always sounded the way we do because it was a mixture of all of us and our skills with instruments. I think when we put ourselves in a room to play music it was each of us individually that created a sound together. You seem to have really eclectic taste in music referencing Scott Walker, Jackson C Frank, Bowie, Three 6 Mafia and the Danish punk groups. If you mold all of them together it must be like throwing multiple colored paints at each other, it will create something unique. ELIAS – Of course, that’s true. But it is not like we are taking this band and that band or the bass out of this song and putting it with something from that song, we just write our music the way we do. Influences seep in there a little but I really don’t think it is something that we can point out exactly. It is very light.
Ic eage
Well you have so many people in the industry confused, no one can really pin down what sound or genre of music to categorize you. They have thrown numerous references at you - post punk, noise rock, metal, harsh rock, hardcore - and someone even said you sound like Picasso painting. DAN – I don’t know about that but I like the reference. I think it is a very good thing to have experts reassessing and thinking about music in a new way. ELIAS – Thank you but it is not something we think about a lot or even listen to. We have done well just doing our thing and we like to keep it that way and not buy into hype. We are very happy hearing good things. I noticed a very interesting lyrical structure, it’s not specific and consistent the way other songs are built. You have a 7-line verse going into a 3-line chorus back into a 5-line verse. ELIAS – Yeah, we don’t know that much about song writing so we just make it up as we go. Sometimes we write strange setups but they always sound like they work to us. I think it just needs to come in and sound nice rather than being precise.
You reference master songwriters like Shane MacGowan and Roland S Howard which has ricocheted a strong poetic depth in your songs. There is a lot of talk about the aggression in the album and in your live show, though I see a lot of sensitivity and vulnerability. The line “raise your fist for the depraved roses” is a very Shakespearian and heroic line. Do you believe Punk music was a force for caring? ELIAS – Punk can be a lot of different things and if you try to think too much into a Punk concert you are misunderstanding it. We just try to write music the way we think
we’re not trying to write our way into the traditions of P u n k music. Although we are we should,
very fond of Punk history it’s not our intention to let it define our music. We are who we are, I think that is Punk enough.
When you recorded “You’re Nothing” did you find that the setup in the studio can breed the same visceral intensity as a live show? JOHAN – It’s a very different process, somewhat incomparable. I think what we try to do when we play live is bring out the core and essence of the songs. Recording is far more vivid and precise. ELIAS – Our live show is much more of a force and its much more confrontational. JACOB – We rely so much on each other’s voice in the studio to construct where as it’s just a surge of that experience when we perform on stage. You feed off the individual’s energy when you’re on the stage. How do you feel towards hearing the precision of the songs post recording as opposed to hearing yourself perform them live? JOHAN – Well of course you get a clearer view of the songs and the sound we are going for. ELIAS – Live is more of a hazy, blurry experience where you just watch the train roll by. The studio is much more focused where you really try to bring the best out in the song. It is much more analytical, we try to develop an understanding of every aspect and bring it all together with the correct feeling. It is very different.
Do you revisit the album often? ELIAS – I listened to it a lot after we had finished recording and mastering. We needed to be happy with what we had done and make sure it came out right. After the pressing it was done and I left it alone for a while. JOHAN – Then it’s a done work and we try to move on. JACOB – Also we are playing the shows all the time so we don’t want to get fed up with it, you know. It needs to be put aside and not abused to the point of distaste.
Is it something you think about listening to as an analysis, to massage out flaws for next time? ELIAS – Yeah we probably would be able to find flaws in our work but usually it’s not what we are thinking about when we are touring our album. We want to keep the excitement and if we were to over analyze the album we might be in danger of losing it. JOHAN – I think the album came out exactly as it should at the time we made it and the state of mind that we were in. I think trying to find flaws right now would be quite easy, especially considering the time that has passed. We have heared it so many times that I am not sure when would be the right time to revisit it, maybe before going into the studio for the next album would be a better time for that critique, it does bring up an interesting element. ELIAS – Of course we are more occupied with writing new material now, which is our priority.
You are introducing new aspects to your music. In “Morals” you used the piano which you haven’t done before. Are you moving forward, not only lyrically but also instrumentally? ELIAS – Yeah we are, especially doing a song like “Morals” we got even more into thinking about what we can do in the studio, maybe some violin parts. It definitely opened up our thinking toward composing our songs with various techniques. What are your thoughts regarding the current state of music and the effect the internet has played within its offering of such reach? JACOB – It is quite difficult because it has positives and negatives. It allows you to hear music that you may not have a chance to without that reach. ELIAS – It is very saturated and extremely accessible, but if you bother trying to criticize it I think it is a waste of energy. There is no point in trying to look back on how it was when you needed to search hard for one specific thing, you need to deal with how it is now. People talk about how England developed a specific and iconic sound in the 70’s and America in the 80’s, do you think music from Denmark has had a Danish sound in a similar context? ELIAS – Yeah I think there is something, not every band sounds the same, but I feel there is an over arching similarity that can bind it all. JOHAN – There is a feel within a general creative state of mind that I think breeds a Danish sound. p. 13
ELIAS – Being from the same environment and having different style outputs can still feel quite similar. JOHAN – Of course the 70’s had the 70’s sound and the 80’s with the 80’s, I think the Danish sound can still come from anywhere so I am not sure if it necessarily is as severe as it was. You can put the state of mind and the environment that we find ourselves in which you will see a Danish thread throughout, its so different cause it spans a lot. ELIAS – Especially because we
its not the Grunge days or the Mo-Town days, don’t have the days anymore,
it is coming from all angles so its very hard to bottle it as a specific thing. Well back when it was all about going to your local venue and not knowing who was on the bill, or flipping through records and buying in hope, now we see ourselves able to find anything at anytime online. You can access so much new music by even turning on Pandora. ELIAS – I think it is still very important to have local meeting points, making sure you find yourself in the physical environments of music. JOHAN – I think we find ourselves very lucky to be at the place we are and having many friends who are like minded musicians. We appreciate it very much being able to access not just music in general but educated minds. ELIAS – Our friends are not fucking bloggers, they are people who still care about music a lot, and they buy records and support the real essence. Maybe in some environments it could be a shitty time but we are in a good place. JACOB – We find ourselves very lucky.
I c e a ge
Does music need to understood completely? So you are happy with where you are at now, knowing that you have just sold out the Bowery Ballroom. JACOB – Well we are very happy that we have the opportunity to go around the world touring our music and meeting new people. JOHAN – Of course we do appreciate people showing up and by doing that they are supporting and helping grow our sound. That’s a very nice and confirming feeling, however it is not paramount to us. Do you talk about the future? JACOB – No. DAN – We don’t talk much. JOHAN – We just do what we do and it takes its course. ELIAS – It is not so calculated. What frustrations do you deal with in the studio? JOHAN – It is very rare that we have frustrations, I think it is more of a release of frustrations. We have been playing together now for quite a long time, we have become so much better at expressing a thought into something musically substantial. Especially in the studio, we are much more comfortable than we have ever been, both with each other and ourselves so I don’t think we have, or at least acknowledge, our frustrations. Did you begin writing all your songs in English? JOHAN – We have always been writing in English.
Is it important to keep songs in your albums that are written in Danish? JOHAN – No, that was just specific for the one song in “You’re Nothing”, it wasn’t even supposed to be lyrics for a song, it was just happen stance. ELIAS – It wasn’t in there so we could reach as many people as we possibly could being a Danish band. I just noticed that I had written it in Danish and it worked with the song but we definitely didn’t have it purposely in there. JOHAN – I think writing in Danish can become harder because there is no distance in it, it is very straight. It can be very intimidating. Are you getting sick of the labeling? Has it ever been important to you to class yourself in a category? ELIAS – People get way too caught up in trying to develop a reference to other bands. It is much more important to know the way the music makes you feel. I don’t really care too much. JOHAN – People just become so much more comfortable when they can better describe whatever it is they are talking about. I guess for some that way is to reference other people as similar instead of trying to figure out an internal way to describe it.
be
ELIAS – Yes to some extent. I get pissed when I see kids at a punk concert and they are not into the context but just the fact that they are being seen with the kind. You can tell when people don’t get it, but I am not complaining. Ok, thank you for your time. ELIAS – Thanks for showing your interest, we appreciate it.
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Yo u ’ r e N o t h i ng c o v e r art
w w w. j a r e dbu sc h a n g . t u mbl r. c o m /
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ww w.jbuschang.tum b l r.com /
One can always find an affinity within obsession. All of us at one point in time have found a repetitious act, an addiction and/or simple fascination within our way that robotically propelled us to seek a fix. When we look at art, and in particular the work of one artist, it is probable you will find their innate traits. They are autobiographical signs of intrigue on view for us to step inside another’s psyche. Richard Phillips found his muse neatly packaged and discarded outside a cemetery. It came in the form of magazines, hundreds bound and sitting on the street begging for an open mind. The significance of such a find ricocheted into Richard’s signature aesthetic, found media. His work is immediately identifiable through its hyperrealist form and subject, yet via its re-introduction as physical objects into the foreign realm of fine art we are privy to a new experience and an ever-changing visceral reaction. Large-scale oil paintings stare back off the wall with stern looks of helplessness, humor, ridicule, sensitivity, shock and awe. All of these reactions repel advances of judgment without understanding the articulate context and reason of such communal display. Phillips has come from the academic school of thought receiving his MFA from Yale where he quickly moved from sculpture to painting. An open mind and affinity with collaboration has lead Richard to a broad range of artistic opportunities. He has featured on hit show Gossip Girl (where multiple pieces of his work hang on set), executed product commissions from brands including Montblanc, MAC Cosmetics, and Jimmy Choo - the last of which licensed two paintings for now coveted handbags - and all of this while hailing representation from Larry Gagosian. While institutions and purists may deem some of the above “anti-establishment,” you can rest with the notion that Richard Phillips is in an open relationship with art and he treats her very well.
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pho t o | Tho ma s Law
Li n d se y I I I - O i l o n l i ne n
Ok RICHARD PHILLIPS - Oh this is cool what is this? It’s an Olympus recording device. RICHARD PHILLIPS - Ok, we need to get one of these, not the one we keep getting, they don’t work. It’s easy, couple of buttons. RICHARD PHILLIPS - Have we started?
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Yes. You asked a question at the beginning of your lecture at Christies, “What possible role in this day and age, can painting play in our culture?” Have you come across a definitive answer or at least an answer on behalf of your own work? RICHARD PHILLIPS - Yes, I think. Painting is traditional conventions as much as they can be seen as antiquated, useless and out of date. I think it is exactly that position that gives painting its greatest advantage and most possibility. The last body of work I did became the antithesis of the film (First Point) on one hand, but on the other it became the thing that galvanized what was happening in the film and made each of the images into lasting moments that reflect back onto the idea of the cinematic image. Within an exhibition the paintings became as much about holding the idea of the whole film in one image as it was when you viewed the film, the paintings existed if only for a split second. So I think that the type of painting I am doing is an element of how painting creates a different physical experience, it places us in a different location in terms of being present with art. It affirms and confirms the notion of our presence and artistic experience in real time. It’s not just a projection on a wall or a reflection but a palpable physical experience. The images that are related to “from media” or that have come and gone “from media,” especially with my last body of work, all the images have been seen online or shown as films so the paintings just became these place holders for experience. The idea of the placeholder for experience, but set up with a convention of large-scale iconic or even cinematic painting, it became almost an Avant-garde composition.
Mas k - O i l o n c a n v a s
The word “academic” holds such strength in both painting and art in general. Right now it seems to be very important, more than ever in history where we see most of the successful young artist as MFA graduates. It can be a very stern world of razor sharp eyes, however I have noticed a sense of humor in your work which I think breaks that taboo. I would reference the “sunburnt” piece and also the “mask” as humorous, yet you do this while keeping your intentions regarding the history and the discipline very pure. RICHARD PHILLIPS - Well I think a lot of it has to do with understanding the location of subjectivity. That it is not worked out entirely in the painting but brought to the painting with each person that avails themselves to that experience, finding that space of subjectivity in people through the conduit of an artistic agreement. That being between viewer and object or installation. There is a lot to work with and the rules are wide open. There is this sense of when you create instability and question the notion of how these images are positioned, whether it’s an end point or another beginning. Painting confers itself as a type of guarantor of art. In a way it is just a fallacy that has been created by professional institutions to keep them in business by guaranteeing this.
A pivotal moment that charged your fascination with found media was when you came across discarded fashion magazines in front of a graveyard in the East Village. It must have been a very iconic image to find these neatly packaged, discarded materials as if it were a loved one being laid to rest. Would the Richard Phillips today still pick up those magazines? RICHARD PHILLIPS - I was actually thinking about that the other day. I was in the East Village at the art store New York Central and one of the great things about that store used to be that right around the corner on 12th street there was a great place called Gallaghers. The owner of that store, Michael Gallagher, was a consummate collector of magazines and in particular fashion. The idea that all of these fashion magazines, going all the way back to the 50’s were always there. I would spend days looking at every single magazine, going back in time. In a way it became so much about editing. When I came across those first stacks I noticed that the one image I had of the mask was backed up by a lot of other images of that time and style, especially in context to the style of photography and the chances that were being taken. Photography was far more Avant-garde than the art making going on back then. The answer to your question would be yes, absolutely. If there was that resource. I mean, we now have online. You can order tear-sheets online which I actually did recently, but there is nothing to say about the discoveries one can have when they look through tons of old imagery using your hands, touching and smudging the ink. Its that visceral reaction, the sense of having so much and editing it down to really find out. It really is the same way the editing process is with a photographer. Its hard to find the really good image from the not so good ones and even then, what are you saying.
It brings up an interesting idea that from the time you picked up the magazines and started working from photographic advertising, to now using the cinematography to capture stills of Lindsey and Sasha, there hasn’t been a huge noticeable technological change when looking at them. RICHARD PHILLIPS - Yeah, and back then they were doing all the post production work in the darkroom.
N e w M u se u m - O i l o n c a nv a s
That’s definitely an aspect that separates the weak from the strong, to have just as much art in your choosing imagery as you have in making it. RICHARD PHILLIPS - Well I think great photo editors are ultimately the artists in a certain sense. Of course you need great pictures to choose from. Even now with postproduction work, especially when we are working on the films and media images for the films, dealing with an image to make it more than what is it you really need to imagine it beyond conventional limits. When we went in to the film we decided to work with the best possible people just like buying the best possible brushes for your painting. You can do shitty paintings with shitty brushes and that can be an expression, but for me it is more about trying to put it past reason, to imagine art beyond reason.
So with time and technology changing rapidly, the fundamentals are the same. RICHARD PHILLIPS - Even the way I am painting is different. At that time postproduction was done by the photographer and their team. I would just choose the image that was most appropriate, re-crop it, sometimes change a few things with a pen and that would be that. I would then scale up the drawing onto the canvas and then paint on top of that. What I am able to do now is take hi-res pulls from the film and output them on to canvases in Germany and have them shipped here. They are essentially my drawings as I composed them on the monitor, I worked with the lighting tech, and then we take that image and put it into further post production with an eye towards how it works best for the painting. This is after the video editing process and conferring with many different people in the team.
It speaks about growing and diversifying as an artist. Trying new things, exploring foreign territories and acquiring new skills. With the work you did in cinema and then pulling from cinema to create paintings you are versing life with art, skin with paint. Do you feel like you have to re-invent yourself constantly? RICHARD PHILLIPS - Oh definitely not. It was far more to do with total chance. Well you do need an open mind to take on such chances. RICHARD PHILLIPS - The opportunity to do the film was a simple question from a friend of mine. Then the opportunity to work with the actors was just because people had seen work of mine which was shown to them at the right moment. Working with somebody as talented as (filmmaker) Taylor Steele was just because I had been asked to be a judge at the New York Surf Film Festival. I met him at the director’s party and we watched his film Momentum which he screened for the first time in a theatre. When I began thinking about doing a film I called him up and said “Taylor, I don’t know how to make a film at all, would you like to join me on this project?” and he said yes. We just went for it. It wasn’t about diversifying my way because I was just making paintings and it was great, but when this came up it clicked in my mind it just seemed to be a very exciting forum. Last summer when we showed First Point for the first time at Basel. I was speaking to the director of a museum and he said “its very interesting that young directors seem to be going away from cinema, looking at other things for inspiration, where as you on the other hand are going towards it and fully embracing it.” I responding by saying “well I am not caught up in it, I don’t have a cinematic background to be concerned with responding to.” It’s literally the same way as my paintings have been about responding to the strengths of forms that existed. It is so much about saying yes and moving forward with full force.
The importance of collaboration in art has always been rooted in that open mind and willingness to contribute and take contribution. RICHARD PHILLIPS - Yeah, in my earlier work it is as though the photographers, the printers, the editors, the darkroom, the graphic designers, the models, the prop stylists, hair and makeup all made up the single image from which I would work from. In this case it was the absolute other way around, all of those people became my direct collaborators and I worked with and along side them to produce my work.
Mo st Wa nt e d Kr i st e n St e w a r t - O i l o n c a n vas
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The films you made were set in California. I was curious if that change in environment going from the isolation of a New York studio with such urban sprawl to the coastal aspect of California - does it infiltrate your work? RICHARD PHILLIPS - That’s a great question. I have always wanted to live in California. I have always wanted to be there on a daily basis and wake up, surf then go to my studio. Just live the way my friends do, in total joy rather than surfing in a 5 x 4 wetsuit in the wintertime, then come to my studio in the middle of the city. It made sense when the opportunity for the films came up. California was the natural place because it’s all set up to do it. Everybody was there and also the language was there. Plus it was built into that environment and it was a perfect opportunity to go there and have a purpose without getting caught up and not being productive. Make the project be about the things that would otherwise wreck my artwork and existence, turn that into my art. It was interesting how everyone just agreed. Also finding the dark side of it, the vacuum that exists behind it was something that was also very palpable. I have always felt that about Los Angeles. I haven’t lived it but I have definitely always felt it. That Mulholland Drive feeling? RICHARD PHILLIPS - Yeah, he has captured it like no other. When you bring in those people like Bergman or Goddard you reference such hallmarks of cinema. In particular how the representation of actors at critical points in their lives becomes a statement about society on a larger level. Its about the struggles of ones own state of mind. I asked the question because I know you did a brief teaching stint in Knoxville. Then you came back to the Metropolis of New York and it changed your practice. RICHARD PHILLIPS - It did. There is something about the South and in particular Tennessee that is about stories, about narrative and about going beyond ones state whether through religion, athletics, drugs, alcohol or whatever it is. It’s literally about how one can project ones
self beyond ones self and the stories that unfold from that. When I got back to New York it was interesting how all of that was just stripped away. It’s that sense of true alienation amidst this large mediated place and how it confronts your state of mind. That cosmopolitan sense was something that eradicated narrative and made it unnecessary. The stories would be told whether I was there or not, so here we had to think about things differently and project things differently. That vacuum of space has its own abstract quality. I think of it as a temporal sculpture that is quite beautiful. It seems much of your reference material comes from the publishing world or the world of media. What is New York as an added source to such reference, and does hit hold extra significance for you? RICHARD PHILLIPS - It has to do with the pressure that’s put on individuals to create images that inspire and also create images that are reduced to their core essence. In New York, the pressure to do things with precision creates interesting results. It is with that looming background that one endeavors to negotiate their existence. Do you believe you can understand an artist through the work they produce? Or to word it differently, are all of your paintings in someway autobiographical? RICHARD PHILLIPS - I don’t think strictly speaking...actually yes. In its true essence it would take on the lies, deceptions and hypocrisies as much as it would any positive contribution. Beatirx Ruf once said about my paintings that “it was involved in productive misreadings.” So the idea that painting doesn’t tell the truth, that they can be setup to read in a multitude of ways. Like propaganda, you can intend that to happen and control it to a certain degree, which is a very important part of my work. It accounts for the possibility of misreading it and starts to weight it, throw the balance off and not try to predict outcomes but to guide outcomes in different directions.
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That misreading of your art has come up against some scrutiny within certain feminist groups. You must find it frustrating to have your work read as singular objects when viewed in the context of an entire show. They are then part of a larger conversation between various relative works. RICHARD PHILLIPS - One of the ideas of my shows is that they can use a diversity of imagery or technical approach in order to start a conversation. Works perform certain roles that have limits. Taken out of context or read flatly will say the worst about them. It is important that it does raise questions and point to those inconsistencies in our society and certainly some have been called on in terms of feminist concerns and some have been called on as the opposite.
Well it can be very important to confront the viewer with such topics through your art and you also confront them with the large scale of your paintings. RICHARD PHILLIPS - My scale is definitely an important part of that. It has to do with our hopeful state in creating physical reaction. As much as I love things in different scales I don’t do it to try to blow people away. But I feel it does have a familiarity to it especially with cinema and media now. Finally, why don’t you frame your work? RICHARD PHILLIPS - I don’t really think of them as framed or unframed. I guess it is a convention of modern painting as so much modern painting is framed. The paintings I have seen of mine when the owners have framed them, its awesome, its great to see what it does, it really makes them into pictures. There is a lot to be said about that and its great that you bring that up now, it is something that I would further consider. Thanks Richard. D o u b l e - O i l o n c a nvas
Mac e by Ma l l o r y We st o n
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w w w. ha r r y go u l d h a r v e a y i v. c o m /
P e n i s N e c k l a c e by Le sl i e B oyd
Harry Gould Harvey IV
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View of the exhibition “DIG” in 2011 at Store Front for Art and Architecture, New York SNARKITECTURE “Dig” 2011 - Sculpted EPS foam 3 x 7 x 3,5 m / 10 x 24 x 12 feet Photo: Peter Ash Lee Courtesy Galerie Perrotin, Hong Kong & Paris & OHWOW Gallery Los Angeles
He is not an architect. Many journalists have spoken to the contrary however factually Daniel Arsham has no academic training in the discipline. He is however purely adept in the thinking of an architect. In each creation he manifests you will see an architectural molecule. Daniels multi-disciplinary career has been steadily on the rise since his early days as a co-founder of art spaces The House and Placemaker in his native city Miami. Currently based in Brooklyn, Daniels work is forging it’s own path through the art world. His project Snarkitecture is an investigatory bridge between art and architecture, allowing his hyper-unreal mind an opportunity to use scale and function within a larger context. Long time collaborators Merce Cunningham and Jonah Bokaer have commissioned his genius to craft set’s that integrate into their respected dance. Finally, Daniels fine art practice is an amalgamation of conceptual painting, drawing and figurative sculpture creating worlds of infinite possibility for the viewer. The day no one is looking is the day he will cease being an artist, may I suggest you look.
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Photo: Guillaume Ziccarelli Courtesy Galerie Perrotin, Hong Kong & Paris
Can you talk about your palette? I understand through various mediums and materials you have remained quite true to a very soft, sensitive tone. Is this because your work can be very literal and confronting for the viewer? DANIEL ARSHAM - My palette is often very muted in tones of black and white. This is primarily for two reasons - one is because I am almost completely color blind, and two is that I am often intervening into architectural surfaces. I work with walls and ceilings a lot which are most often white. This white palette is something I can find consistently throughout the world in architecture.
Your work bridges many forms of the creative outlet. Stage, architecture and crossing mediums throughout fine art. Can you talk a little about diversity as an artist? DANIEL ARSHAM - Cross-disciplinary practice has always been of interest to me. I am not an architect. I am interested in many different sorts of possibilities but I also understand that it is impossible for me to be good at everything. Collaboration has always been something that I have used in my work with other artists. I had a long collaboration with a choreographer named Merce Cunningham who had a very particular and somewhat peculiar way of working in which he would create the choreography, I would create the stage design, and the musician would score
the piece. None of us knew what the other was doing so it was collaboration without any direct knowledge or communication. I have also continued a long-term, sustained collaboration with Alex Mustonen in a practice called Snarkitecture. In many ways this allows me to expand certain ideas that I work through in my own practice both in painting and smaller scaled sculpture and move it into a more architectural scale like the project we did with the Marlins Ballpark in Miami.
“REPLICA�, 2009 Set design & performance in collaboration with JonahBokaer and Judith Sanchez-Ruiz at the New Museum, New York
Inspiration comes rapidly through keeping your eyes open. An artist must pay attention to everything, sometimes doing so innately. How does your filter system for such information work and what is the process of trapping the pivotal concept and turning it into a work of art and or project?
DANIEL ARSHAM - I keep a sketchbook, and I take a lot of photos. Things will often be present for me years before they become parts of my work. Often times I will bring items into my studio where I have a very large white table and I will lay out the items, all the assistants in the studio think that I am crazy but I will sit and stare
at this stable for hours. Looking at different objects, thinking about their relationship with each other and what I can coax out of them. I do think that my job, my goal as an artist is to re-interpret the existing world, to create an alternate possibility, to generate new forms and to develop alternate realities of the everyday.
View of the exhibition “Reach Ruin” in 2012 at The Fabric Workshop Museum Philadelphia (USA) “Thinking Glass Figure” 2012 Broken glass, resin 73,5 x 99 x 63,5 cm / 29 x 39 x 25 1/4 inches Photo : Carlos Avendaño Courtesy Galerie Perrotin, Hong Kong & Paris
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Your work seems to weave surrealism, figurative sculpture, realism and minimalism. All these genres are rich in history yet you have fused all into a signature that is very much Daniel Arsham. How important to your discipline is the injection of questioning ones self and surroundings? DANIEL ARSHAM - When I am creating my work I am not thinking so much about its context in relation to art history. I will go through these periods where I am very focused on a particular way of thinking. This could be thinking like a photographer, thinking like an architect or thinking like an archeologist. I try to set my viewpoint from that position and to develop a narrative out of a very specific set of rules. Most of the work that I am completing currently has a very archeological viewpoint to it. This comes out of my interest in the practice and how history can be altered in a way. Archeologist’s are like artists where they find objects, they invent a story, they reassemble things from the past and from the present, and ultimately a fiction is created as they are often wrong. Sorry I got off track a little. Questioning ones surroundings is one of the main things you have to do both as an artist and a person.
You create public commissions, have solo shows, create work where hundreds of people come every night for a specific duration, and collectors purchase pieces for their homes. You have said, “Architecture is nothing without the person that experiences it.” How is your handle on the arduous creation and the relinquish process in art? DANIEL ARSHAM - For me my work is often directly imbedded in the architecture, it becomes part of the space. In some ways I am able to go back to works and see them long after they were created. I may see them in a private collectors home or I may see them installed publicly. These pieces are very much tied to a specific time period and a way of thinking. Relinquishing my works is often not hard for me. In some ways, once I have made a work and I have spent enough time with it in the studio, it is done for me. My interest is in the process, and my thinking and my drive is always on the next piece, the next project.
Collaboration is a massive aspect in your larger work and art in general. Can you talk about the act of collaboration, the importance and the degree to which you currently collaborate? DANIEL ARSHAM - I spoke a little bit about my collaboration with Merce Cunningham, which was collaboration without any direct communication. My other collaborations are very different from that. I had a long-term collaboration with the choreographer Jonah Bokaer. We work in the opposite means of what I do with Merce. Most of the stage designs I propose to Jonah are things that can directly interact with the dance and can inform the movement. They are objects that have a movement potential behind them, so we have created works with 10,000 ping pong balls, we have created works that use very large white rolls of paper, we have used sand and a substance I developed called a non utonion substance. All of this experience in collaboration informs and allows me to get inside other ways of thinking. Theatre is different to art and also different to architecture.
“5 floating volumes” 2011 Gouache on mylar, frame 73 x 101,5 cm / 28 1/2 x 40 inches p. 36
Courtesy Galerie Perrotin, Hong Kong & Paris
Do you think you understand yourself and surroundings more through your experiences and work? How much of what you do is a self-analysis and how has it changed your life? DANIEL ARSHAM - My work has certainly changed my life. I hope that it has done the same for others. My work is not about myself.
I WOULD LOVE TO SAY I WOULD CONTINUE TO MAKE WORK IF THERE WERE NO VIEWER, IF I WAS THE LAST PERSON HERE, BUT I DON’T THINK I WOULD. My work is very much about the viewer, about people’s reaction to it and how they experience it. About the world that can be generated and formed around not just individual pieces but the building of a little universe of alternate possibility.
w w w. e x hi b i t i o n a . c om /
BILL POWERS is the co-owner of Half Gallery in New York. More recently, Powers co-founded ExhibitionA.com - an online art site that commissions editioned prints for affordable prices. A former editor-in-chief of Blackbook magazine, Powers has affected the publishing world with artistic contributions to magazines that include The New York Times, W, Paper, Vanity Fair, Muse, Details, and Purple Fashion - a magazine he still contributes to. He has also penned a novel titled What We Lose in Flowers, a fictional story partially inspired by the lives of Julian Schnabel and Peter Beard.
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Sebast ian Bl a c k p a in tin g , s h ow n a t Bo de ga G a l l e r y i n P hi l l y
S am Fall s banner I f irst saw at Karm a B o o k s do w n t o w n
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The cover im age o f Lu c i en Sm i t h’s Good Vi b r a t i o n s b o o k
A p ainti ng fro m Dani el He idk am p ’s “ Sne e ze B u ds” se r i e s
P revio us page
A William A na s t a s i p ock e t d r a w in g fr o m t h e H a l f G a l l e r y sh o w
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If you read his memoir How To Piss In Public you will understand the magnitude of Gavin McInnes’s sadomasochistic lifestyle and his fearless approach to challenging every taboo society has pinned. He co-founded Vice Magazine for reasons of voicing such views, he penned his novel for reasons of proudly divulging such experience, and he has an advertising agency (Rooster NYC) specifically tailored to pushing all boundaries. I caught up with him and quickly knew I was intellectually swimming with a shark, so I did what anyone would do, I frolicked. Do you have gay tendencies? GAVIN MCINNES: What? My God, you accidentally hook up with ONE tranny a million years ago and you’re a fag for life. I know you’re kidding but that really did happen to me. GAVIN MCINNES: Really? I thought that kind of shit only happened in song lyrics. No, I met her wasted at a bar and took her home and when I felt down there, it was a penis. GAVIN MCINNES: Was it hard? Yep! GAVIN MCINNES: Huh. Interesting. Every time I see one in porn (not that I’m looking for that!) they seem flaccid. I always assumed it was the estrogen killing their erections.
Well this guy seemed ready to go. GAVIN MCINNES: So what’d you do? I just got the fuck out of there and he was yelling “I’m sorry. I’m sorry” when I left. GAVIN MCINNES: You know what I don’t get about trannies, in New York at least? No. GAVIN MCINNES: What’s with the way they’re all tomboys after a while? The deal is, you’re a woman trapped in a man’s body. You’re busting to get out. You can’t take it anymore. So, you get the operation and become a woman. Now you’re just in a sweat shirt and jeans? I thought you were a pressure cooker about to explode. So, you’re a tomboy trapped in a man’s body? Isn’t that just a slightly effeminate man? Doesn’t drag cover that? If you’re Sarah Silverman trapped in a man’s body, you’re basically just not a tough man. No need to get surgery about it.
What are you doing in LA? Are you on one of those celebrity-spotting tours? GAVIN McINNES - Yes, I just took some time off from the family, got a star map and am seeing different houses. I saw Judd Apatow’s house, Jimmy Kimmel’s house and I am on my way to Patton Oswalt’s house now.
Same with their reporters. GAVIN McINNES - 24 staffers a day are peacing out. They don’t even have a set office anymore. You just rent a desk before you die of old age.
It was either that or checking if your hands were as big as James Deans. GAVIN McINNES - Yeah, exactly. Actually, I’m here with JB Smoove doing a project for The Economist where we do pranks on college kids. I am pretending to be the author of a self-help book called Skim it 2 Win It. I am telling kids they don’t need to read. They don’t need to go deep. They can just skim it.
They should report on the state of 60 Minutes reporters. Do they even know what’s going on? GAVIN McINNES - I think the generation gap has never been bigger. I’m 42 and can barely wrap my mind around Twitter and Instagram.
Why would you be doing this is LA, doesn’t everyone just smoke weed and play Frisbee? GAVIN McINNES - LA is dumb. You know how you have Chinatown and Korea town? Well, LA is dumb town. It’s cool if you like palm trees more than taxis. But taxis can get you from A to B where as palm trees will just make you want blonde hair. GAVIN McINNES - If you watch the news here, it’s 80% weather and they include weather in St Louis and everywhere else in the country. They don’t actually have news and when they do have it, it’s from yesterday. It is because they like to pretend they are interested in more than themselves in LA? GAVIN McINNES - It’s such a fucked up town. The reason we had to do it out here was JB was doing a bunch of pilots and he didn’t have time to come to New York. I think The Economist want to get younger readers. Their clientele are dying of old age. Every serious news source is losing customers. Like 60 Minutes fans, I think one dies every 60 minutes.
Before you say you don’t understand Instagram, you should hold up. You have a lucrative career as a figurative pancake artist on Instagram. GAVIN McINNES It’s easy man. You get a squeeze bottle and you make sure your mix is a little denser than the directions and you’re done. Just go balls-out after that. There is a whole “dad scene” that’s into pancakes. I am in the bottom 10%. There are dudes out there doing fucking Death Stars, battleships, snowflakes and Mona Lisa’s. There are some serious players out there. My son will ask for a Transformer pancake and it’s just out of my league skill-wise. Even just to draw one with a marker is a whore.
G a v i n Mc I nnes
Well I have some serious questions. What’s the best thing you have inherited from Canada except for the word “out?” (Pronounced oooot) GAVIN McINNES - Good British education. Kind of like Australia, I guess. You end up with a good vocabulary and knowledge of the outside world. The American system likes to focus on American history and States whereas Canada also likes to focus outwards. Canadians are a weird bunch. There is a sense that you don’t want to talk to people because its so fucking freezing but there’s also this drunken Scotch-Irish culture where you are not afraid to say what you’re thinking because you’re drunk. We don’t have a class system either so no posh accents or old money names. We don’t have a Kennedy or a Rockefeller. It taught me to not be scared of anyone. We also like to say “fuck” a lot, swearing is normal. Maybe that’s the Commonwealth. Australians and the British have a similar way. Nothings taboo as far as language goes. GAVIN McINNES That’s a good point. Britain, Australia and Canada. They all say “cunt” as a word for “jerk” right?
You have a fascination with analogies. They are all over your book. You said, “going down on a girl starts like an orchid and quickly turns into a bulldog that just finished off a jar of mayonnaise.” GAVIN McINNES - I think analogies come from people who have been thinking about things way too much. You finished your second chapter “zapped by space guns into a shit hole on acid” by saying “life’s too short to risk getting serious?” Do you still get “the Stupids”? GAVIN McINNES - Well we got “the Stupid’s” from inhaling cooking spray. I don’t get those anymore cause I stopped that in my later years. Apparently you should give that up when you’re a teenager, which I did but I don’t think you should ever start. I don’t know exactly what happens from that kind of high, I think it slows your heart rate and blood to your brain. I can’t think of a time I don’t regret being serious about something.
In Australia, we use it in an endearing way. You say, “Oh Darren, he’s a sick cunt.” GAVIN McINNES - “Oi! Be a good cunt and pass me the cranberry juice.” Americans never say cunt and when you do, their ears burn off.
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Well you got serious in the chapter on Dash Snow. I saw it as a turning point in the book where you changed from advocating or condoning behavior that was rebellious and challenging to a sensitive figure with a moral stance on Dash’s unfortunate demise. Was this something that you consciously wanted in there for your own sake and to somehow protect his legacy? GAVIN McINNES - When people die it’s time to get serious. After 13 friends had died from heroin I started to take it seriously. It’s not a good thing at all but I think it seems to be on its way out. Kids these days are writing songs about cough syrup and how dangerous that is. It’s good, I am glad that we are down to cold medicines as a genocidal threat. I guess with the Dash chapter we were all having fun and going nuts, then you look around and people are dying. You just think wow guys step back a little bit here. Throughout the whole book it definitely had a moral undertone. GAVIN McINNES - A male undertone?
No, moral. M.O.R.A.L. But it definitely had a male undertone too. GAVIN McINNES - Haha ok. It’s hard to tell a male book these days. Women are the only people that buy books. Men who read books usually have them bought by their girlfriends. Yeah there is a moral in it. You don’t have to lie, lying just seems to be such a waste of time. What I was trying to get through in the book was to be fearless about things and not pretend to be someone you’re not. It sounds like I am writing a children’s book now but it is amazing how fake people are, using instagram to make their lives look more amazing than it really is. When people are full of shit, I don’t have time for it. If you’re lying to me and it’s not true then you’re wasting my time. I don’t even like hearing comedians talk about shit that didn’t happen. So do you only watch documentaries? GAVIN McINNES - Well that’s a good point. I do watch movies. That’s a hole in my philosophy. Lets just say your philosophy is like a mesh singlet. It has a few holes to let your nipples get some air. GAVIN McINNES - Yeah that’s what it is. Women look great in my philosophy. Did you do a spoken word tape for people who can’t read? GAVIN McINNES - No I haven’t done that yet. We have a paper back coming out in June and the audio book will come out then too. I want to do it as a radio show and when I bring up my old band Anal Chinook I can play the music. When I talk about a girl I can have some moaning in the background and when I am in bar I can have bar music.
You need to do an interactive version for the kindle and remake a Leatherassbuttfuck clip. GAVIN McINNES - That’s the future of books. Audio books are only good for driving. People drive everywhere in the states, they don’t think a 60-hour drive is far.
Well just think of this before you go on, it’s a comment from one of your interviews. From Aaron - “Good interview, but the dude comes off as a major dick. And what’s with the Nietzsche quote? Rofl“ GAVIN McINNES - I don’t remember that, who is this Aaron guy?
Well planes are a fucking nightmare these days and driving is more therapeutic. GAVIN McINNES - Well I am rich so I don’t do your coach bullshit, I can’t relate. Sorry I am going to have to call you back, oh no wait, no I don’t. How is your make up looking? GAVIN McINNES - It looks wonderful like powdered leather. Like a pancake. GAVIN McINNES - Its funny when I do talk shows and we go out for beers after I forget to take my makeup off. Just a bunch of guys sitting round a bar with tons of foundation on. Sounds like an N’Synch video. GAVIN McINNES - You walk into the bathroom, look in the mirror and think oh I’m a drag queen.
R ight - First ti m e on stage
A bove r ight - Gavin & Dash
What are you doing right now? GAVIN McINNES - Putting a mic on.
I don’t know but here is another one. From StAugstine - “crappy writing as a medium for sophomoric ideas in the service of a toad’s ego: at least the price was right.” GAVIN McINNES - Ha-ha, that’s a review of one of my interviews. That’s the beauty of not lying, you just go “oh well, sorry.” So I wanted to run this hypothetical by you quickly. If you aligned Prada and Occupy Wall Street, instead of having stinky kids with Pitbull dogs in shopping trollies protesting to the banks they were well dressed in a catwalk style protest, do you think it may have worked a little better? GAVIN McINNES - That would have been much better, they needed a clothing sponsor. I like that they are out there protesting and that there is a star on Obamas resume that people are going to look back on like they did when Greece ran out of money. Hang on, we are warming up here, I am going to have to call you back.
(1 hour later.) How was the thing that you did? GAVIN McINNES - It went really well. I told everyone that they don’t need to read. I said there is way too much information out there and you don’t have time for it all so just “skim it to win it.” I wanted to burn down the library but no one came. Too stoned? GAVIN McINNES - Yeah, I was getting all John Belushi from Animal House. And I hope you told them not to skim it when it comes to putting on foundation otherwise you wont look any good. G A V I N McINNES Right, good point. I was focusing more on information, skim information. But when it comes to makeup it’s a whole different story. Men are not using enough makeup these days. Get some highlights, make your eyes pop. Especially if you’re a ginger you’re already in the dumps as far as looks go so get your fucking eyes popping. They need to make the instruments look more masculine. GAVIN McINNES - Yeah like a carpenter’s pencil, or a fucking knife. They should put cayenne pepper in the shit so it burns, then you will get more men putting it on and just charging. They can use the slogan “you won’t look good until you burn.”
We also need to stop the 2 t-shirt thing. People put on 2 t-shirts and make sure that one is hanging out just below the one on top so you get the idea that they have 2 on. GAVIN McINNES - I am baffled by that. I think it is because men don’t like their nipples to show. How about the kids today with underwear on under bathing suits. What the fuck is that? People will say, “oh he doesn’t like the suit chaffing him.” Actually that’s incorrect, he just doesn’t want anyone seeing the contours of his dick. I used to see surfers wear board shorts over the top of a full-length wetsuit. GAVIN McINNES - What? Are you fucking kidding? I would never stand for that. I grew up in the 70’s when men first started becoming sexy. So we were around 10 years old and we would have on the shortest shorts imaginable, almost with our balls hanging out. We would also be wearing a choker, fucking waffle tee with midriff, long tube socks and feathered hair. I know, a wet dream right? I still have this in my DNA so when I wear shorts I want you to see my gorgeous cock. Men are losing their penis to fashion. GAVIN McINNES - Yes. I almost started a fight at JFK the other day. The way to fly is you get at least 3 doubles in you and you just pass out. So I am trying to get a drink and these fucking guys are taking forever and I am trying to see what they ordered. I realized that the guy poured this weird blue smoothie and water for each of them. Then this librarian looking normal women ordered a Bud. I went to go over and confront these guys and the best way to do this is to pretend you’re a foreigner. I go over with a Scottish accent and say, “what’s going on guys, what are those?” and they say, “Oh, they are blackberry margaritas.” “I noticed you got a water with that,” “Yeah we always get a water with our drinks.” I am just thinking you have got to be fucking kidding me. The penis is dying a horrible death.
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Have you given up on cool and just retreated to a life of corduroy shirts and redwing boots? GAVIN McINNES - Ok just to be clear, the word cool doesn’t mean neat or awesome, it’s like saying Jewish or Amish. It has rules and it goes back to the first two cool people in the world which were James Dean from Rebel Without a Cause and Marlon Brando in The Wild One. It involves being rebellious, being a little violent, being weird and being young. I could argue this forever but you’re not cool after 34. Well let’s not argue, you said arguing is like going to the brain gym and I don’t want you to bulk up too much, it may shrink your penis. GAVIN McINNES - I love arguing. I don’t believe in devils advocate. I don’t believe in Keanu Reeves. I re-read the chapter where you swallowed your own cum and gave yourself an STD. You said you went back to watching Murder She Wrote, so were you actually whacking it to Angela Lansbury? GAVIN McINNES - No, even now with my huge libido I couldn’t get it up for Angela Lansbury. But during the commercials there was a Latino newscaster with too much makeup. I don’t know what it is about newscasters but they make men so fucking horny. I am pretty sure the urge to jerk off came from the newscaster. Also when you’re in your 20’s all you need to do is think of a women’s ankle and you’ll bust a nut. Do you do yoga when you go upstate? GAVIN McINNES - I don’t believe in yoga, it’s up there with astrology and chiropractors. Yoga is stretching. It is not cardio, its self-indulgent stretching. It’s complete bullshit, sorry ladies but it is not exercise. It would be good for shoplifters to sentence them to a month of yoga. The hardest thing about writing a book, go. GAVIN McINNES - Fucking great question. The hardest thing about writing a book is getting it out. Typing it isn’t so hard it’s the proposal that’s hard. If you want to get enough money to make a book then you need a good proposal. Spend 6
months just writing it up, write some mock chapters. Adderall gets it written, women give it balls and pot makes it funny. Then you go over it sober 4 times, fix the mistakes and you’re done. And a heart attack makes you famous. GAVIN McINNES - Yeah. I gotta go, what else have you got for me? I got nothing. I’m over it. I am going to the Book of Mormon. GAVIN McINNES - That’s a great movie, I mean play, I mean musical. Yeah it’s a good umbrella. My mom and dad are here, you want to give them a message? GAVIN McINNES - Yeah, tell them Australia is the last place of sanity in a world gone mad.
“Wrapped Figure” 2012 Fiberglass, paint, joint compound, mannequin, fabric and shoe 200 x 250 x 38 cm / 6.6 feet x 8.2 feet x 15 inches Courtesy Galerie Perrotin, Hong Kong & Paris
Art by D a n ie l A r s h a m
“Falling clock” 2011 Clock, fiberglass, paint, joint compound 152 x 198 x 15 cm / 60 x 78 x 6 inches Photo: Curtis Buchanan Courtesy Galerie Perrotin, Hong Kong & Paris
“Bier Esserin ” , 2 0 0 1 O il o n cam va s 50.80cm x 40 .6 4 cm / 2 0 in x 1 6 in Court esy o f Rich a rd Ph i l l i p s S tud i o
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I got skeptical when I was told she used to be a successful model. Not that there haven’t been exceptions to the rule. Helena Christianson was a fucking babe and went on to be a great photographer. Elle McPherson’s acting however was probably where my skepticism raised its eyebrows. Tentatively I listened to a live track from Carmen Villain’s debut album “Sleeper,” whatever preconceptions I had were burned from my conscious with a full attack of feminine bravado. Her tongue was like a whip that lashed at my ears the same way PJ Harvey’s does. After listening to half a song I said yes to the interview. This 40-second introduction then threw me into the abyss, trapping myself in the Avant-garde sound of “Sleeper.” A multi-instrumentalist and intellect alike, Carmen’s approach is as fresh as her looks. Her compositions came while in her bedroom where she spent time learning every facet that goes into making an album. Being a perfectionist in nature you would think an avenue of structure and precision would be the safest path to creative sanity. Villain however took the road less traveled, a rough track down the filthiest barrio where she collected every sinister encounter and poured it back into her music. A hyper charged experimental reckoning with lyrical justice. I became an instant fan and maybe you will too.
p h o t o | Si mo n S k r e d d e me s
This is a bit of a morbid way to start an interview but Chrissy Amphlett from the Divinyls passed away today from Breast Cancer. It got me thinking about the legacy we leave behind, especially in the music industry. Your music in this day and age will live on infinitely. Do you put that pressure on yourself, the notion that upon release your bound to that music even after death?
It’s also an innate trait in the creative field to not want to relinquish control. We attempt to control our mortality as much as we can but it’s the same control we let go of when we enter a relationship. You have to balance that fear. Do you feel that with your music? CARMEN VILLAIN - Oh man, totally. Music for me when I first started writing and recording was like seizing
of having to get used to not having that anymore. I think I am getting over that obsessive nature just enough to let more people in. You seem to be in the perfect position having all the control be on you as you are going after a sound that is quite experimental. A balance between perfection and imperfection. CARMEN VILLAIN - Oh yeah. I am a control freak and perfectionist but I am not after that perfect sound, rather the perfect mess. It is very intuitive. Was the first show you played live at your friend’s art exhibition in Norway? CARMEN VILLAIN - Yeah, it was weird and good at the same time. I was obviously too scared to pick up the guitar and sing at the same time so I just played the tambourine.
CARMEN VILLAIN - Yeah, I think right now in a way it’s a good thing. I think its kind of nice to have a little pressure to produce something good which will always be out there. After the release you definitely think “oh shit, it is really out my hands” which is scary but hopefully positive. Before you let go of such a precious thing you must first learn to love it and be happy with its existence.
control because I didn’t feel like I was in control of my life at that time. Everything I was doing while I was modeling just felt superfluous, it felt like such a bad way of being. Music became my ultimate control freak project. Starting with my first album, producing it myself, mixing it, mastering it and in the end finally letting go. After the album was released there was definitely a feeling
You were too scared to do it live but when you got home you were playing every instrument on the album? CARMEN VILLAIN - When I was writing by myself at home I was on everything, that was fine for me. I wasn’t very good at any instrament and I had to learn. Then I started learning about recording which was difficult. I have definitely come a long way since then. I try to do as much as I can myself because I think it adds personality to the way everything sounds.
p h o t o | Si mo n S k r e d d e mes
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You must be satisfied with your album. CARMEN VILLAIN - Yes I am totally satisfied with my album and thank you for saying that. I am definitely not where I was when I said that. When I listen back to the album sometimes I just think,
Also doing everything yourself without leaning on professionals who have very knowledgeable ways of approaching music meant you still had that amateurish touch which I think is important to your sound. By doing that you understood the music a lot more so to better direct collaborators. CARMEN VILLAIN - During the recording of the album I tried to do as much as I could without it being detrimental to the sound. I can’t play drums which meant I had to bring people in but ultimately it’s all within reason.
“OH F U C K , I DON’T WANT TO GO BACK THERE.”
It does seem like a very autobiographical album as you wrote a lot in the first person. Also, as much as it was autobiographical, it seemed very therapeutic. After all that it must be good to just release it through your live sets. CARMEN VILLAIN - For sure. Getting it done was part of the therapy. It’s weird because I am not in the same place mentally but I can still remember it which helps in the shows. I still understand it all. I guess that’s the thing with music, you will always have now and you will always have back then.
You have said “Most of my songs are about escaping something – escaping this weird vacuum, an unsatisfying world.” Do you still feel you are in an unsatisfying world? CARMEN VILLAIN - Um, not really, not in the same way as when I said that. But I am still in a bit of a weird place. It is better now, it’s not so much about dissatisfaction as about having ground to stand on.
Sl e e p e r a l b u m a r t w o rk
It can be a poignant time in those moments when you feel low and vulnerable you need to find a release. On the flip side, when you are really happy you don’t necessarily want to tuck yourself away and write about it. You want to relish it so those unhappy spells do create nice music. CARMEN VILLAIN - I find it really hard to write music when I don’t feel totally fucked over. Its strange writing music when you’re happy. I am not very into happy music. Some of it is ok but it doesn’t resonate with me. It could be a little too harsh, the juxtaposition between the sound you have and writing happy lyrics to accompany. CARMEN VILLAIN - It could be fun though, to sing about having sex to a heavy, depressing, fuzzy reverb sound. Maybe it could be something for the next album. You mentioned you sleep a lot, more than the average, and you found it an escape. The state of unconscious dreaming, being in a nightmare or even sleep deprivation seems to put you in a state that music can put you in. Being immersed in sound can drift your consciousness away from the literal, which I think resonates with the album as if it’s almost a score to being in that state.
CARMEN VILLAIN - I love being asleep and I love dreaming. To me “Sleeper” was just the state of mind that I was in, not so much referencing directly to act of sleep. I didn’t feel like I was participating, just living under a grey blanket. Sleeping was an escape from feeling like I wasn’t present. The sound really fits with what you’re saying and I am looking forward to seeing it live. Although you must be nervous playing a solo set without your band? CARMEN VILLAIN Oh shit, yes I am. I put so much pressure on myself and there is definitely a purpose for all those layers of experimental sound that is going to be difficult not to hear. You didn’t get into music to be comfortable so you must be looking forward to challenges like this? CARMEN VILLAIN - Hopefully it’s rewarding. I have gotten over a lot of that fear shit now. It’s been a very good tour, being out of my element and pushing myself to the limit.
The obedience track was a real surprise on the album being a 6-minute song with one verse. The whole ethos of the sound being very experimental and structurally interesting. When I was listening to the track I pictured a jam session that breed the idea. I also know that it was a co written track. Can you talk about that song? CARMEN VILLAIN - That’s right, that was the last track we did with Prins Thomas who is a real cosmic disco dude, and
I don’t really like disco music. I was put in touch with him through my label. I hated disco but thought I should just give it a go and see what happens. It became like you said, just a jam which came really organically. In the end we did everything mutually so we split the credits. Looking back it does feel like a slightly indifferent track but it drives it into a different dimension.
Has that step in a different direction breed any new desires? CARMEN VILLAIN - It was totally experimental and so much fun. I think a lot of the writing comes from experimenting so it pushed me way further than I expected. I had no idea what would come of it but it was really nice. Are you searching for more of a push next time? CARMEN VILLAIN - Yeah, I am on the next push now but I can’t tell you what its about but I am there. I just want to get the fuck on with it. The re-invention you have to go through as a musician and as a person, and the surprises you need to constantly deliver are actually really important. CARMEN VILLAIN - It’s good though, the whole thing is to keep going and keep surpassing yourself. So many bands will release something and then wait like 5 or 6 years before the next. Each to their own but I wouldn’t do that. I want to be pretty rapid and keep evolving. Writing and playing. The whole process of releasing an album and playing is amazing but I haven’t had time to lock myself away with pedals and fuck around. I would love to find myself a nice balance where I have time to grow but not make myself stagnant for too long.
It needs to happen without going insane over it. CARMEN VILLAIN - Yeah and its kind of hard especially for me because I am such a neurotic mess. Apparently it gets easier. Then you can go back to sleep. CARMEN VILLAIN - Yeah. Are you getting better at dealing with the unexpected? CARMEN VILLAIN - Yeah, it’s interesting. There is great stuff happening all the time but I am really looking forward to just siting somewhere and trying a bunch of new things with my music. Be a nerd. Perhaps go rural? CARMEN VILLAIN - That’s what I am trying to do.
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When you don’t have that time and your trying to structure sets it can almost feel like a chore. CARMEN VILLAIN - It shouldn’t be a chore it should just be fucking fun all the time. I think when it boils down, the essence is in live music. You record it live, you practice it live and you perform it live. It really is the best thing to do and what you need for your sanity. The key is to be attentive to everything and pay attention. CARMEN VILLAIN - Yes that’s very true.
LA S T p. 60
LAST time you lost something?... Everyday is another gone. LAST song that changed your life?... Happens all the time. ‘Lost in My Head’ by Doldrums changes my life every time I hear it. I prance around like a goose singing at the top of my lungs. It gets me really hyped to start painting. LAST feeling of love?... Flirting with the bar girl 5 minutes ago. LAST time you thought about not trying?... 12 months ago, when I was pennyless, working extremely long and hard hours as a roadie through a Berlin winter. Perpetually exhausted and living off potatoes. That was my pinancle ‘poor, starving artist’ period. I felt defeated. I stuck it out and naturally things got a lot better. LAST adventure you embarked on?... I’ve been living out of a back pack for nearly 3 years now. I don’t stay in one spot for longer then 6 months. My life IS an adventure. In saying that, all of lives are an adventure! LAST time you said “last time?”... Every time I light up a cigarette. LAST interaction with art?... Today. I went on a tourist excursion through Melbourne, gallery hopping. The Rhys Lee show at Utopian Slumps and the Guy Benfield show at Neon Parc deserve a visit. LAST good piece of advice?... Nothing ventured, nothing gained. LAST painting you made?... I made 3 large abstracts using undisclosed materials. We’ve all seen a 2 or 3 tone custom paint job on a car, well these are 6-9 tone. Because of the light, I can’t get a decent photo of them. Depending on the angle or light, they look completely different. Needless to say, i’m psyched on them. LAST worry about the future?... I’m in the process of trying to get a mining job in the Australian desert. It looks like Mars. That’s a worry, but also exciting because I don’t know what to expect. LAST memory of the past?... Reminiscing over earlier in the week when hanging out with old friends and meeting their babies for the first time. Sweet memories. LAST great idea?... To keep having fun and not settle down. LAST time you thought about death? All the junkies I saw in Melbourne today, look like death, therefore making me think of death.
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