Q&A with Mildred Morillo

Staff Attorney at NYCDS and new member of NYSACDL

Millie and I are colleagues at NYCDS. She joined our office in December 2019 and recently moderated an office wide discussion related to Black Lives Matter and the system wide effects of racism both inside and outside of the institutions we both work in. I was impressed with how she took on that role of leading and moderating the discussion as one of many first steps within our office to reckon with conscious and unconscious racial bias and wanted to engage in more of a dialogue with her and give her a platform to be heard by all our members.

(CONTENT HAS BEEN EDITED FOR LENGTH AND CLARITY)

JH: Millie, welcome! Can you start by just sharing your path to NYCDS?

MM: I graduated from John Jay College with a bachelor in criminology and went to New York Law School. During my time at New York Law School I also worked as a substitute teacher and began my legal career as a defense attorney with Queens Law Associates in 2015.

JH: What drew you to the practice of law and criminal defense in particular?

MM: My dad owned a bodega in the Bronx in the ‘90s. He was robbed at gun point two times before buying a gun of his own. During a random lotto check, the Continued on next page

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police were tipped off to the gun and my dad was arrested and ultimately convicted of CPW. I was 12 years old. That was the most traumatizing experience to see my dad in handcuffs. It was at that moment that I thought I should be standing there next to him. Right then I knew that this [being a public defender] is what I needed to do.

JH: One of the main issues we are discussing is the issue of racism within the system and in our everyday lives. If you are comfortable sharing; what is your racial identity and how do you see that shaping your experience and perspective?

MM: I am comfortable discussing it. I think there is a difference between race, ethnicity, and national origin and I think that a lot of people get those three concepts confused. I identify as a Black Latina who is American. I grew up in the Bronx and I didn’t really become aware of how much my identity played into my practice until about my second year of practicing law. I saw the differential treatment by some judges in Queens between black female attorneys and everyone else. There were about a handful of judges that made their biases clear.

JH: As women in criminal defense we often experience gender inequality in what is largely still a male dominated field; how do you feel your experience as a Black female lawyer compares to what you see non-Black female lawyers describe regarding inequity in their workplace?

MM: Black female attorneys are the most disrespected group in our field. I can’t tell you the amount of times court officers, correctional officers, judges, prosecutors, and even some of my own colleagues have mistaken me for a client, a social worker, a parent, etc. I’ve gotten yelled at, berated, and humiliated multiple times by judges in front of other non-Black attorneys.

JH: Have you felt comfortable broaching that subject of racial bias in the courtroom?

MM: I haven’t felt comfortable yet to do so. We are talking about the color of our skin which we have no control over and you are in a very vulnerable position to address those issues as they happen. I have had a white supervisor who viewed a judge’s treatment of me and confirmed based on her experience and perception that it was due to my race that I was experiencing that discriminatory treatment. It took her telling me that for me to comprehend that yes that judge was being racist towards me.

JH: It does put people who are experiencing racial discrimination in a tough position to say they need to speak out whenever they experience discrimination in the court system, lets say as Black attorneys. You want to advocate for your client and all of a sudden the issue is about you and your identity. It could feel like an unfair burden to place the people affected by this behavior in the position of having to take it on solely by themselves. That is why I think these discussions are important for white attorneys to have and engage in so that we can all examine our behavior and change our actions as well as addressing racism that we witness without having to wait to be told about specific problematic behavior as it happens to others.

JH: What was your experience as a Black law student; did you see racial inequality in your school experience? In internships? Opportunities?

MM: I was an evening student throughout law school. I personally did not see any racial inequity in my law school partly because the evening division of the law school was comprised of a fair amount of Black and Latino law students. The internships themselves, however, were infested with microaggressions. Students from different law schools were vocal about their biases. It was difficult to not lash out every time I heard discrimination throughout my time there. I remember specific instances of having to educate people on the culture and why its wrong and ineffective to generalize. For the most part, I adapted by keeping to myself and focusing on my work.

JH: What do you feel is your role within the system as a public defender? What do you most hope to achieve for your clients?

MM: It is our duty to tell our clients’ story - not just how it relates the facts of the case, but their experience in the criminal justice system in general. Too many times I’ve been told to gloss over clear facts and evidence of excessive force because “it would confuse the jury”, “not relevant to the facts of the case”, “insufficient evidence of racism”. Unless we have a video, or audio or some other “smoking gun” of clear excessive force, we often times ignore our client’s plead for justice from police misconduct.

JH: Has that changed since recent events?

MM: I certainly hope so. I hope moving forward we begin to elevate their voices and stories more.

JH: You mentioned in a previous conversation that you have been involved in social activism for many years; Can you tell us how you came to that involvement and what that has meant for you?

MM: I started my activism in 2012 when Trayvon Martin was murdered. Once his murderer was acquitted, I organized marches and protests with the student organizations in my law school. In 2013 I stumbled on #BlackLivesMatter on twitter and continued that conversation in law school and anyone who was willing to hear. In 2014, I hosted numerous “Know Your Rights” sessions in the Bronx and volunteered as a mentor in StreetLaw. StreetLaw is a program that connects law students with middle school students in educating them on their 4th amendment right. We spoke about all the injustices in the criminal justice system, the levels of intrusion, and how to try to avoid being killed by the police.

As vice president of the Latin American Law Student Association (LALSA), Vice President of the Criminal Law Society, and NYLS ambassador in MetroLALSA, I moderated discussions relating to police reform with all student organizations. I also moderated the Policing Post Ferguson lecture at the 2015 MetroLALSA Pa’Lante Conference. While working in Queens, I also volunteered in Youth Court. Youth court is a program with consent of the 101 precinct and the Queens District Attorney office that handled select criminal cases involving children under the age Continued on page 48

of 17. I mentored high school students as “attorneys” in either the student or community advocate side.

JH: Youth Court sounds like a great program within the criminal justice system which actually empowers young people and leads to resolution and growth rather than stigma and criminal records. For our young clients of color that can be the difference in a future with potential versus being trapped within a racist system. Hopefully these are the types of programs which continue and are expanded as options in the future.

JH: In your years of activism and being involved in protests have you seen something similar to what is happening in our city and our country now? What do you see driving the current momentum and what would you want to see happen to continue that momentum?

MM: I think that because of the coronavirus pandemic, people are constantly reminded of the gruesome images of George Floyd’s death. People are forced to reflect and assess their own values because of this gift of time we’ve been forced to take. This time, it feels different. Because we’re engaging more, I am hopeful for positive change. For the first time, our governor seems genuinely interested in what we have to say and how we can shape our criminal justice system to reflect our morals. I’m hopeful that Black voices will be heard, considered, and discussed when we shape what our police department should look like.

JH: When we walk into our criminal courthouses again (whenever that may be!); we will likely see once again that our clients are disproportionately Black and Latinx but I think the face of who their attorneys are at least is changing; meaning more Black and Latinx attorneys. What do you think about the change in how the defense bar looks and how that affects how our system functions moving forward?

MM: Diversity, especially in our field, is necessary. Let me put it this way: if all my clients were non-Black, english speaking, American citizens, with little to no collateral consequence, then I can see the flip side argument of diversity being less of a priority — but since our criminal justice system is made up of people like me, the field REQUIRES people like me. I distinctly remember my father having a difficult time communicating with his attorney because of the language barrier. Too many times was I required to be his Spanish interpreter. As an attorney, the evidence and witnesses I’ve been able to obtain and use in my cases is a direct result of me being bilingual, and being able to communicate directly and therefore connect with others. We NEED more Black and Latinx attorneys, not just for the practicality but because we can and have contributed to progress of our laws. Representation matters!

JH: How have bar or professional organization memberships affected your professional development? Are there ways in which you think they could do more to not only increase diversity of membership and leadership but actively fighting systemic racism?

MM: I think these Bar Associations are so important to be a part of. I love

learning new ways to attack a case. Often times I find myself with a lot of unanswered questions because I’m scared that they’re stupid questions. I think “why didn’t I know this? Why am I now just learning this? How do I file this? If I ask a supervisor will they judge me for not knowing the answer?” Professional organization memberships allow the questions to be answered in a controlled educational environment.

As for what more organizations can do; I think that because we are attorneys with specialized knowledge, we have a duty to spread that knowledge for the fairness of others. Attorneys are attorneys 24/7 — that drive for social justice cannot end after the verdict at 5pm. That fight needs to extend at all hours for all ears. There are ways we can collectively end systemic racism; it’s simple. Start from within. In assessing our own contributions to racism, we become aware of how to avoid it moving forward but as attorneys, we must spread that knowledge to everyone willing to hear. We can because we have credibility and therefore a duty to educate. Its not enough to not be racist; we have to be anti-racist and that takes work! That discussion must include our friends from more conservative areas. They might not want to hear from me, but they may hear from you!

JH: Thank you so much for taking the time to talk and we hope to see more of you in NYSACDL! A