Pass It So We Can Find Out What’s in It

By John R. Berg, PRP

The presiding officer of a legislative body has been widely quoted as saying “we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it” (https://youtu.be/hV-05TLiiLU). This raises the question of whether it is best to adopt something first and then fill in the details, or to fill in the details before adopting it.

The normal parliamentary procedure in the adoption of a motion involves amending it before it is adopted. Some may ask, “Why take all the time to amend something if it may not pass anyway?” The primary reason can be expressed in the idiom, “the devil is in the details.” While many members may approve of a general concept, they might not approve of it when specific details are included. The majority might agree to apple pie for dessert, but some may not want walnuts or too much cinnamon in it, or some may want apple pie with no sugar added. What about adding ice cream, or perhaps a slice of cheddar cheese? A specific type of apple pie may not receive majority support while generic apple pie more likely would.

It can be very frustrating for members to have originally supported a general concept, only to realize that they cannot later support it in its final form. Two thirds might approve a bylaws amendment to achieve an admirable goal by modest means, only to realize that the subsequent measures to implement it, adopted by only a majority, become grossly objectionable. A Pandora’s box can be opened when something is approved without knowing the details that will follow. For this reason, the general rule is that a motion is amended before it is adopted. Hopefully, it also will be read by those called upon to vote on it.

In purchasing a new car, does the wise buyer first agree to purchase the car, then negotiate the features, price, and terms? An experienced car salesperson would say that psychologically the buyer actually does agree to buy the car before filling in the details. The buyer does not

always realize this, which is to the advantage of the salesperson. The same holds true in politics and deliberative assemblies.

Ascertaining an assembly’s receptiveness for a specific motion often can be accomplished informally before the meeting. Robert’s Rules of Order Newly Revised, 12th ed. RONR does not permit straw polls (the taking of a non-binding preliminary vote) because they neither adopt nor reject the measure, and are meaningless and dilatory (45:72). Going into a committee of the whole, as suggested in 45:72, is one method to allow a vote that is not final. In addition to going into a committee of the whole, there are other methods to test the prospects of passage for a particular measure. The two most commonly used are the main motion to Commit and the secondary motion to Postpone Indefinitely.

The main motion to Commit introduces a main motion on a new subject and, at the same time, refers it to a committee where it can be considered in more detail and be perfected before coming back to the assembly. “If the referral is pursuant to a subject on which the assembly has already taken some action” it is an incidental main motion. RONR 13:6. These two differ from the more common subsidiary motion to Commit which refers a pending matter to committee. RONR 13:1. The main motion to Commit would be defeated if there was not majority approval for the general concept expressed in the motion. Thus, the committee has some expectation that their work will not be in vain if they can come up with a final version of the motion that can receive majority approval from the assembly.

The motion to Postpone Indefinitely can be used when the main motion is already on the floor. If a member feels that there is not sufficient support to adopt the motion regardless of how it may be amended, that member could move to Postpone Indefinitely. This provides the opportunity to defeat the motion without risking its adoption. If Postpone Indefinitely is adopted, the main motion is rejected, and time consumed in perfecting it with amendments will have been saved. Since Postpone Indefinitely is debatable, including the merits of the main motion, and amendments to the main motion are in order before voting on Postpone Indefinitely, the Previous Question can be used to hasten a vote on Postpone Indefinitely. RONR 11.

Objection to the Consideration of a Question also could be used as a way to kill a main motion before there is any debate on it. This is not commonly used because it requires a two-thirds negative vote on the question put as “shall the motion be considered?” It is undebatable and typically would be used only when widespread disapproval of the motion is anticipated. RONR 26.

A fourth method of testing the possible approval of a motion can be through the use of the agenda. RONR 41:58-62. This is useful in meetings

in which there is a tight agenda and significant items of business are put on an agenda that is approved at the beginning of the meeting. If there is substantial disapproval for a specific item, it is simply removed from the agenda by a majority vote. This is a much lower threshold than the two-thirds vote required to adopt Objection to the Consideration of a Question, and accomplishes the same result. It also is debatable, which Objection to the Consideration of a Question is not.

If an item removed from the agenda were reintroduced later in the meeting under new business, the chair could rule the motion out of order because the assembly already would have decided not to consider the motion. On appeal, that ruling could be reversed by a majority vote. Alternatively, the agenda could be amended by the motion to Amend Something Previously Adopted. RONR 41:63, 35:1-2.

There are other instances in which something is adopted, and the details added later. A motion with a blank could be adopted, in which case the assembly must proceed to fill the blank before taking up other business. RONR 12:105. The preferred method is still to fill the blank before adopting the motion.

A second instance would occur when a motion to Commit does not include details as to the composition of the committee. Again, if adopted, the assembly must proceed to fill in the details before taking up other business. RONR 13:10-14. A motion to give instructions to the committee could follow, even at a later meeting. RONR 13:22.

Whether the details are added before or after the adoption of a main motion, RONR still provides the most efficient method for deliberative assemblies to make decisions in a fair and orderly manner.

When asked if you want the apple pie for dessert, ask for the specifics before saying yes, otherwise accept what is served to you. NP

John R. Berg, PRP, was president of the Washington State Association of Parliamentarians 2017-2021 and has served as parliamentarian for a number of national organizations. In 2019 he was elected to the board of directors of the South Kitsap School District in Washington State and now serves as its vice president.