7 minute read
Robert Joseph on the future of wine and retailing
WINE ROBERT JOSEPH
THE CHALLENGE OF GETTING CUSTOMERS INTO YOUR STORE
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Internationally recognised wine correspondent, author, ’maker of wine’, consultant and public speaker, Robert Joseph’s career has spanned decades and attracted plaudits such as being recognised in Decanter Magazine’s 50 most influential people in the wine industry - globally.
Drinks Trade Publisher Ashley Pini caught up with Robert before his upcoming series of workshops with the Liquor Barons Group from West Australia, to discuss his current projects, passion and the rise of cannabis.
Drinks Trade: Having led a distinguished editorial career with London’s Sunday Telegraph, Meininger’s Wine Business magazine and authoring 28 books, what projects are you working on now?
Robert Joseph: Right now I’m working on several projects, not least of which is my own wine business along with some consultancy work, actually working in Eastern Europe on some Wine Australia stuff, and some forwardlooking wine business work, such as the sessions we are doing with Liquor Barons.
DT: How did you transition into the winemaking side of the business, and where did it start?
RJ: It was three of us. Hugh Ryman, Kevin Shaw and I. We found a set of co-operatives in the Languedoc that had 6,500 hectares of varied land - mountains on one side and the sea not far on the other and importantly a very receptive team of people running it. We also had an idea of a consumer-driven wine, rather than the traditional French winemaking rules. Our neighbours all thought we were crazy - that’s how the name the Black Sheep came about. For about a minute, the brand was to be called Mouton Noir, but then a certain Chateau disagreed. The name has become Le Grand Noir.
Kevin Shaw is the man behind the Hendricks label, he is the Johnny Ives of labelling, ultra bright, the go-to man in the UK for wine labels, and with Hugh Ryan, an extraordinarily gifted winemaker, the three of us embarked on getting the winery and distributors to believe in us back in 05/06. Today we’re in 52 markets, and we do 3million bottles, which in Australia isn’t that big, to be honest, but in France, we’re big - as France still doesn’t do brands very well.
DT: Has your varied experience helped you in developing the brand?
RJ: Yes. Take the Australian experience, for example. I’ve always noticed how Australian winemakers wanted to know what the buyers thought of their wine and would actively change their wines in some cases, to suit — recognising that the customer’s needs are paramount. The Californians didn’t do that, and the French didn’t
do that - it was very much the way Australians accessed the UK market. Like that, we are hugely market driven with our wines.
DT: What do you see as the future of wine?
RJ: I’ve benefited from a unique view of the world from wearing several hats. One of the workshops we are doing with the Liquor Barons retailers will feature a slide, which is the Alphabet of Wine. With only has 25 letters. It’s missing the Y, and it’s the Y that doesn’t get asked. Take for instance, why is the only recognised co-ferment of back and white grapes a shiraz-viognier? I remember Peter Lehman telling me he’d done a co-ferment with muscatel and shiraz that had worked every bit as well as Viognier. So why don’t people try different things and why do we presume that the future is going to be the same shape as that we see today.
DT: And for retailers?
RJ: The same applies. Why is this distribution model be the one we are going to have in 50 years. Why should it not evolve? It is already - the online shopping experience, for example, which, in my opinion, is pretty horrible. Some will say that a wall of wine isn’t that much fun, but scrolling through a website isn’t that much fun either.
So why can’t I ask Alexa in my house to buy me a bottle of merlot that will be delivered to my door? Alexa will be able to tell me what I bought last week, last month, and last year. Alexa might say - “do you want that bottle you bought last week?” Alternatively, “do you want the wine you had at your friend’s house yesterday?”. What we’re moving towards is ‘Social Commerce’ - which I’m somewhat obsessed with. The reason for this is that I’ve been looking at the revenues of the social media platforms like We Chat and Facebook and Instagram.
The We Chat platform has similar revenues as Facebook, but with a third of the users; it’s more transactional than advertising driven.
DT: Does the experience change the retailer - producer relationship?
RJ: Of course: brands can sell directly through those platforms, and so the consumer purchasing dynamic will change as we primarily compete. Wineries can deal directly, be it still via the social media platform. The danger of this scenario is that whichever platform has facilitated this transaction, be it Facebook or Amazon, they now know that I purchased a particular wine and can say “you know that nice Bordeaux style “XYZ” cabernet you had last week? Why don’t you try a real Bordeaux?”. Also, that relationship the winery formed turns out to be a one-night-stand, without the consumer necessarily wanting that to happen.
So, on the one hand, we are going to see a way to facilitate purchasing and familiarisation through the platforms, but on the other, we are going to put much more pressure on brand owners to create the interest and then loyalty.
DT: What are the fundamental changes you see?
RJ: Growth in private-label, and challenging the perception of what wine is. The private label growth is advanced in Australia already, and the change in wine styles is starting to gain momentum. Fruit flavoured wines, we’ve seen them fly in recent times. Are they wine? No, they’re not, but they are in wine shaped bottles, and people are buying them. Bourbon barrel aged wines are hugely popular in the States right now. Also, artificial wine, wine with no grapes at all, have recently presented wines that will be taken seriously in years to come. A wine that required far less water to produce.
We also see change at the other end of the scale with “Luxury Wines”, an expression that is not much loved by most wine writers. Often backed by celebratory power with millions of Instagram followers - the wines are not relying on the traditional wine writer endorsement and points system of credibility. These are products that are liquor luxury goods and compete with other luxury items. Some of these luxury wines interestingly are not following the traditional wine “rules”. I call them ‘BOLIP’ because they are bought like perfume.
The challenge is, how do we market and how do we tell people what we’re doing. Australia wine media seem to be more potent than in other parts of the world. I do believe that Australia is one of the most sophisticated wine countries in the world, but even in Australia, there is a shift. We’ve always trusted our friends and family the most, in truth, the only difference now is that our friends and family are people we don’t know. It could be 30,000 people on Vivino or Amazon.
When I go into a restaurant today, I see a sign saying: please rate us on trip advisor. The staff are incentivised to get the ratings because of the significant difference it plays in the success of the venue. It, therefore, has become more important than getting the restaurant critic to visit and review.
DT: In this changing environment, are you seeing a blurring of the lines in categories?
RJ: Well, if I look at the price I’m now being asked to pay for craft beer, or the interest in gin and products like Kombucha coming up then I’d say yes. Mead distilleries are opening every few days in the states and products made one way in one country can be adapted in markets with differing laws - especially with cannabis.
There is a cross over in the way that beverages are made, consumed and marketed. The adage “share of throat” can be adapted to the occasion and share of the moment, or “Share of Buzz”.
Where is that going to come from? Beverages is just one of the products in the competitive mix.
Brands behave differently, too. Penfold’s have just launched their Champagne, and in two years, they will have their Napa Cabernet. Now that’s a weird concept to some, but nobody seems to mind Mont Blanc, a pen company, making perfume or Porsche electric drills and trainers.
I think it’s key to understand who is going to own the retail process? Virtual reality, for example, is huge in the gaming industry. The ability to tour of the Seppeltsfield Winery or the Henschke Hill of Grace vineyard is all possible in the VR world; it’s more a question of will you be doing it at home, where you can reach out and touch the virtual bottles and move it into the basket, or in store where you can actually sample the wine?
