Authors Interviewing Authors

For this month’s Authors Interviewing Authors feature, we have two Madville Writers in Conversation.

Cooper Levey-Baker

Brian Petkash

Cooper Levey-Baker: Brian, we met in grad school, well after we had both decided that we wanted to write fiction, and I realized that I’ve never really asked you what made you want to become a writer in the first place. So, what was it that sparked that interest?

Brian Petkash: I had an inkling early on that I wanted to tell stories. I dabbled in middle school and high school with some, I’m certain, terrible stories. I took a creative writing course in college, churned out some better stuff, although, damn, there were some talented writers in my class and I remember being a bit discouraged, that idea of, “I will not be able to write like that.” But I remember really enjoying the time spent writing them, and every couple of years I’d write something and feel that feeling I felt in high school or college again. And then, while teaching a high school class, I had what I felt was an idea I could run with: a retelling of Henry IV set in modern-day Cleveland. I wrote the first chapters of that, but kind of lost track of it, and realized that I am a writer who needs deadlines. So, off to get my MFA where that story and others took life.

Cooper: That’s interesting that it was that specific story idea that set you off on your career. My urge has always been kind of vague. When I was young, I loved to read and make art, and when I went to college, I realized that all I really wanted to do was read novels and then read about those novels and talk about them with people, and I just had this very indistinct ambition of wanting to write for a living, but I had no idea how to actually do that. I didn’t really know any “writers” at the time. I eventually fell into doing journalism after college and have done that for 15 years or so. I love it, but I’ve always felt this push and pull between the analytical side of my brain and the creative side, and while journalism has enriched that more intellectual part of me, it doesn’t satisfy that unconscious, artistic urge that fiction does.

Brian: What are some of the biggest stumbling blocks you’ve faced doing fiction?

Cooper: Just finding the confidence to feel like I had something to say took me a very long time. I used to think, “Oh, how can I write a novel when I haven’t read all of Flaubert yet,” or whatever. I always thought that to become a novelist you had to have some kind of credentials first. Getting over that took me years. And I also used to think that novels had to be these big, sweeping historical epics, and I never felt capable of writing in that vein. But at some point, I realized that I could write about, say, red tide in a small Florida city, and that that narrow focus would actually make my work better rather than if I was trying to sum up the human condition—which often leads to really dreadful writing.

How about you? Any advice for people who want to go down this insane path?

Brian: I think my biggest challenges were the hits to my confidence that would occur while submitting my work. Rejection is a big part of this path and while I thought I was ready for the sheer amount of rejection, I clearly was not. It could be discouraging. But I found some ways through that. I would reread feedback I’d gotten in workshops and such about my work—the positive bits, of course—and also, every now and then, I’d get a near-miss rejection, when an editor took the time to write that, although they were passing, they liked my writing and encouraged me to submit again. Talking to other writers also helped. I’m in a weekly writing group that hasn’t met much this past year, unfortunately, but they’re an enormous source of encouragement. I found I just needed to keep writing and understand that I write because I enjoy the creative process.

Cooper: That’s the other thing I learned, which was that being a writer means actually, you know, writing a lot.

It might sound dumb, but I always use a sports metaphor. You have to keep practicing, just like an NBA player or another pro athlete. Every chance you get to write, that’s an opportunity to practice your skills, even if what you’re working on at the moment isn’t the most exciting thing in the world. My first “writing” job was writing descriptions of houses for a real estate marketing company, and I tried to treat it like a game—to use even those boring assignments to hone my skills and get better. You’ve got to put in the work, shooting thousands of free throws over and over again with no one watching.

Brian: I had started a piece that I think has the legs to be a novel. I’d started it before Covid, had been about 70 pages into it, and was really digging it. It’s a novel set in Cleveland, like my short story collection, but will zero in on the music scene there. How about you?

Cooper: I had started working on a new novel last year, but I lost momentum on it. I am hoping to pick it up again soon. It’s about a journalist in a small town who starts unraveling a conspiracy that involves a conflict between developers and NIMBYs. There are a lot of books and movies out there that portray journalists, but not many that, I think, reflect what happens in small newsrooms. Also, I’ve always wanted to put all the hours I’ve spent listening to mundane local government meetings to some kind of creative purpose.

Brian: Ooohhh, I like the sound of that (and to your putting those meetings to good use!).

Cooper: Can I ask, with Mistakes by the Lake, what do you want readers to take away from it?

Brian: My hope is that, first, readers will come away with a bit of a breathless look into the history of one American city, a city I love. This ideally comes from both the historical details but also from how the language changes from story to story, decade to decade. And I hope some of the characters’ lives resonate with readers. You?

Cooper: Not that Dead Fish Wind is a 100 percent fun read, but all I want to do is give the reader pleasure. As a reader, one of my favorite feelings is when a book expresses something I’ve felt but wasn’t able to put into words before. That’s such an amazing moment when you feel that shock of recognition in a book. I’m hoping the novel offers that to at least a few people.

Brian: What books do you think influenced Dead Fish Wind?

Cooper: It’s funny how when I reread the book now, I can see these traces of what I was into at the time. Elena Ferrante has long been a huge influence, particularly her novel, The Days of Abandonment. I’d also say Joan Didion’s Play it as it Lays. László Krasznahorkai’s Satantango was a big deal to me, as well, and there’s some of Thomas Pynchon’s early novels in there, too.

What do you like to read?

Brian: Well, I have a giant to-read pile. And it’s full of a variety of books and authors. I’ve been reading a lot of music history-type books, both of the general sort and those specific to Cleveland’s rich musical legacy. I’ve recently become intrigued and enamored by ancient and classic Greek and Roman novels. Books like Apuleius' The Golden Ass and Chariton’s Callirhoe. I have a few more of those to read, including Tatius’s Leucippe and Clitophon. Pat Conroy was a big influence. As were Fitzgerald and Twain. Other influences have been John Dufresne, Denis Johnson, Dennis Lehane, Stephen Mack Jones, Haruki Murakami, Jack Olsen, Richard Price, Karen Russell, George Saunders, and Colson Whitehead. Oh, and Michael Koryta: just discovered his mysteries set in Cleveland and I’m blown away. Not for the least of reasons that he was, like, 22 years old when he wrote those books.

Cooper: How can people keep up with you?

Brian: My website (https://brianpetkash.com/) and on Instagram at @petkashreads (https://www.instagram.com/ petkashreads/).

Cooper: People can follow me on Twitter at @LeveyBaker (https://twitter.com/LeveyBaker). Brian, it’s been a pleasure. Brian: Really enjoyed the discussion, Cooper.