Interview 10 and

DO DIFFERENT GENERATIONS RESPOND DIFFERENTLY?

Yes, there is quite a generational divide in views on same-sex relationships. Younger people have a much more accepting and open engagement with the issue. It’s much more a normal part of life for them than for older generations. Generally our young people wonder why we need to have these conversations and older generations feel uncertain as to why we are even contemplating a change in perspective.

But that’s not absolute. There are younger people who come with a traditional expectation and there are older people who have changed their minds. As a society we’ve come a long way and Christians are recognising that the world we live in is quite different from the way it was 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

SHOULDN’T WE TAKE OUR LEAD FROM THE BIBLE?

A Let’s Talk session is a faith-based facilitated conversation with various steps. It looks at the big picture of where we are in society and then goes into a reflection on what the Bible says. What we discover is that people have come to different perspectives because they interpret the Bible differently, which makes the conversation more complex. When you hear someone interpreting the Bible in a different way from you, it comes as a surprise. So part of listening to each other is recognising that people interpret the Bible on different grounds.

There is a big difference between interpreting the Bible simply as a literal document and recognising a whole range of different genres. Some of it is poetry, some of it is history, some of it is theology – and you have to handle different genres differently. The truth is that, from the very beginning of the Christian Church, the Bible has been handled in more ways than just the literal way. There is also room to differ on what the Bible text first meant to readers in the culture within which it was written and how that meaning translates for today’s world.

DO YOU THINK PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THE ARMY’S CURRENT POSITION?

There is definitely a lack of recognition of the distinction between how someone is orientated in their sexuality and how they actually live it out in practice. Those are two aspects that need to be given careful consideration. There are undoubtedly many people in The Salvation Army – among our congregations, soldiers and officers – who would say they are orientated with same-sex attraction, and that is not an issue. However, The Salvation Army has a traditional expectation that marriage is between a man and a woman and that human sexuality is heterosexual. That fundamental question is inevitably at the heart of the Let’s Talk conversations.

HOW WOULD YOU ANSWER SOMEONE WHO SAYS THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT THINGS TO FOCUS ON?

The reality is that, as a culture, we are quite hung up on sex, beyond what is healthy. We see it on our TV screens, in films, in newspapers, in literature – it’s a major preoccupation for us. We’ve allowed that preoccupation to creep into the life of the Church, but we do need to take a bigger, broader perspective on what issues are most critical. That is not to belittle the subject, but to call people to step back and look at the nature of where our culture is at the moment, and not just be drawn in by strident voices calling us in particular directions. That can help to balance our perspective so that we aren’t preoccupied with particular areas. As Christians we are living in God’s Kingdom and trying to see and respond to God’s priorities.

WHAT MIGHT THESE CONVERSATIONS LEAD TO?

There is a benefit to having these conversations but, depending on where they stand, people want there to be an outcome. The problem is we’re not at the place where we’re all totally agreed on what the outcome should be. That’s definitely the case internationally. A human sexuality symposium is being held in Singapore later this year and undoubtedly these subjects are going to be discussed further. It will be interesting to see what the outcomes are from that.

l To explore this and other challenging topics, the book To Be Like Jesus by Lieut-Colonel Dean Pallant is available from sps-shop.com priced £10 (plus postage and packing)

ON AND OFF THE PITCH

Continuing a series on Salvation Army chaplaincy in diverse settings, three sports chaplains tell George Tanton they are not only there for the players

‘CHAPLAIN, I buried my mother this week.’ Those words met Major James McCluskey as he sat down among the home supporters at Forfar Athletic FC, one of Scotland’s League Two football clubs.

Sports chaplains hold a unique position in Britain’s sporting landscape. Usually working within football and rugby communities, they are a reassuring presence on and off the pitch, not only to players but also to the groundskeepers, coaches, supporters and executive board. Impartial and usually unpaid, they feel they are called to provide pastoral and spiritual care to all those involved in their club, which is typically embedded in the community they represent. Sports Chaplaincy UK, the governing body, explains that many of these chaplains also undertake ‘traditional functions’ for their clubs, such as conducting funerals and weddings.

Major Cliff Allchin (Leeds Central) is chaplain to the Dewsbury Rams, a semi-professional rugby league club in West Yorkshire. Cliff provides guidance to the whole club, including staff members and their families.

‘Near the start of the Covid-19 pandemic I conducted the funeral of the club president,’ he says. ‘The club secretary is from Ukraine, so she has gone over to Poland to try and get her family back safe. When she does get back, I’ll be making a beeline for her to make sure she’s OK.’

Unusual circumstances led Cliff into sports chaplaincy: ‘I was stationed at Mirfield Corps, which is near Dewsbury, and the chaplain asked for our worship group to lead a carol service at the club. That fell through but he and I became friends. When he was diagnosed with terminal cancer he asked if I would take on the chaplaincy.’

Some chaplains, such as James, already have an emotional investment in a particular club. A Forfar Athletic season ticket holder before he began as chaplain, chaplaincy became an attractive proposition when he retired as a corps officer. James is now dubbed ‘the 12th man’ at the club.

‘As far as supporters are concerned, I was quite well known around the stands as “the Salvation Army officer”,’ he says. ‘But now they recognise me as the chaplain of Forfar Athletic Football Club as well.’