Interview

with Ms Mackie

by Uma O’Hara & Emma Owen

Uma and Emma took the opportunity to interview Ms Mackie who joined the SHS community in January as Deputy Head.

E - Firstly, how are you finding your time at SHS so far and have there been any key moments or school traditions that you have experienced that have been particularly memorable?

MM - Yes, the school is very fast paced, there’s a lot going on but in a very productive way. For me, the Winter Dance was stunning! That was a very key moment for me as I remember sitting in the theatre and just thinking-‘ WOW! This could never happen in a mixed school and I was very proud to be a part of the school.’ I also love the little things that happen within the school, such as the ‘Know your lemons’ campaign and walking past and seeing activities such as that going on, especially during Period X.

U - Are there any particular aspects that you feel passionate about, that you have perhaps experienced in other schools that you want to encourage here?

MM - Working with students in focus groups: for example we have just done the Undivided Survey and, after getting those results I think we need to do a lot of unpacking with the students about what they want to see change and what they see as the great things about this school. In the past, I’ve worked with students post survey, doing a lot of what I’d call ‘drilling down’ to get to really know what the student feeling is and then making changes wherever possible…. and I say wherever possible, as its not realistic to promise change over night, as some change takes a long time and you have to track it over a period of years.

U - What has influenced your passion behind these aspects – has it been from past experiences or any particular role models?

MM - No just different experiences. For example, in my last school we had a Rainbow club… we had a ‘Rule the School Day’ where students could offer whatever they wanted as workshops and people signed up to it. A Rainbow Club grew which was the first time it had ever happened in our school- so it was something that was grassroots and grew from the ground up. It was brilliant and led to a whole series of cross school LGBTQ+ awareness raising sessions with parents, staff and students- it was fabulous! It is responding to things that the student body has bought to my attention. We also had a really lovely initiative called ‘Mental Health Warriors’, where throughout the pandemic, mental health rose right to the top of our agenda. We trained a group of students and they were our mental health ambassadors – so anything to do with mental health, they were the group we would call on – whether it was informing parents, needing a workshop, talking to the students lower down the school or educating staff. Those were the two groups I really worked with most passionately over the past 4 years. They were great initiatives and they tapped into what was going on at the time - it’s needs driven, it’s not something that we think you should be doing, it’s something that students come to us saying this is what needs to happen, how can you help us make it happen?

E - From your experience of living in China, did you have to adapt your teaching styles to fit in within the lessons, or were lesson techniques rather similar?

MM- In my last school, we had a very specific way of teaching. From teaching all years from nursery to year 13, we had the same approach which consisted of ‘I do, we do, you do’. For example, ‘I do’ was directed teaching instruction where there was no expectation for the students to know the topic. The ‘we do’ is the practice of topic, completed together in class and lastly the ‘you do’ is the independent work for the student. Because we were a second language school, it was important that the students have a grasp of the language. This specific style of teaching allowed them to understand which parts of the lesson were for listening, taking part and practising, as well as working independently. This school teaching model was new for me, however, and it gave a lot of clarity and made you really think through every phase of the lessons which followed this style as ‘what am I expecting my students to be doing and what are they expecting me to be doing?’ So over a course of lessons, there had to be practice work, teacher instruction and independent study and research. I really liked that approach as it was very specific and I have taken that with me back to England as I think it helps balance the teacher- speak and the studentspeak every lesson.

E - How did you overcome and adapt to these challenges and do you have any advice for students taking on new challenges?

MM - Never be afraid of change! Some people are frightened of change because things are cosy and secure, but I think change can be really exciting. I remember a quote “Change is scary at the start, messy in the middle, glorious at the end”. I don’t think people necessarily need to be afraid of change, but if you’ve been at a school for 14 years, you settle into a rhythm, and if someone brings a notion of change, you may feel unsure and concerned about it. But I think that being open to change allows you to be open to new experiences. There are always different phases of change, such as going off to university, so we have to allow our students to practise changing and adapting within school. So don’t be afraid of change. Change is good!

NOW MOVING ONTO LITERARY BASED QUESTIONS:

E - Starting with the basics, what is your favourite novel and why?

MM - There was a book I read called ‘Bone People’ by Keri Hulme which was recommended to me by a friend years ago. It was one of those books that when you pick it up, you can never put it back down. I think I read it within 24 hours whilst on holiday. One of the reasons why I loved it was that it was tied to the mysticism of the Maori culture in New Zealand - it was fascinating to me. The story is about a wild, bohemian Maori woman who goes to the beach one day and finds a shipwreck. She discovers a little boy who had survived, completely isolated on the beach and realises that he is mute. The book explores their growing relationship and the discovery of why and how the boy came to be on her island. I then visited the place where it was set, this beautiful and wild beach, and felt connected to the history and culture that this book explored. Other books that I like are ‘The Book Thief’ and ‘The God of small things’ by Arundhati Roy. Her use of language is phenomenal. It is set in the backwaters of Kerala, India, where I travelled years ago so can imagine the context. Her invention of language is just simply dreamy and sublime. Literature has definitely had an influence on my travels. Travelling is part of my blood, it’s my biggest passion in life and I’ve been travelling prior to when I was 18. Some of my favourite places are Tibet, Ladakh, Yemen, Syria. In particular, sacred places. I remember visiting temples in Palmyra in the Syrian desert which were over 4000 years old and then seeing them later destroyed by Isis. When you’ve been to a place like that where people have deliberately tried to annihilate a culture, it just sticks with you. I’ve travelled lots in the Middle East and made many memories, such as in Oman, putting turtles into the sea after they had just hatched, camping on the beach for my son’s birthday and opening oyster shells and finding pearls inside.

U - So is there a particular genre you are interested in and what interests you about it?

MM - Literature wise, I like stuff that is linked and rooted in a culture, particularly if it is places that I have visited as I see literature as the window into the culture and soul of the nation.

E - Do you find that some of the literature/ books that you read are different to your experience of the place?

MM - The Arundhati Roy was just so perfectly representational of the place. I don’t know how I would have felt about it had it not been. I think I would have felt slightly cheated, but then I would have thought, I am the visitor so perhaps my perspective is wrong or unauthentic, as she is the person who lives there. I would assume that her presentation is authentic and maybe I had only got a very superficial representation of it, however I’ve never read literature and thought that’s not right. This highlights the question of whether you should read literature in translation, for example when fantastic Japanese literature that is so rooted in the Japanese culture is translated. Can literature be properly translated from one language to another because the words chosen are so specific and deliberate? I don’t know where I stand on that, I think there’s value (in translated literature); I don’t think you can perhaps get the same intent, I guess it depends on how good the translation is.

E - How has literature influenced your life as a whole, including plays, art, music, novels and poems?

MM - I’m a French and German specialist and whilst studying the languages at university, we read literature from the Medieval to modern for both languages. The insight (through text media) has changed me. In literature, it’s the voice of an author, there is an emotional connection, a human connection to what you’re reading. There is a book by Franz Kafka which is about a man waking up one morning as a beetle. This just prompts you to think why would this author have the idea of that storyline? And why is it a German author? Would an English author ever come up with that idea? It creates the idea of an author being a product of her nation and culture and I think that’s how it’s shaped me. The idea and notion of the insight within culture which is different from your own. There is something about German literature which is particularly German and there’s something about French literature which is typically French. The importance of literature is the insight it brings you within these different cultures.

U - Do any of these works connect with a monumental time in your life and how so?

MM - As I generally select works relating to the countries I am travelling to, they are always associated with holidays, in particular summer holidays. So, not momentous periods in my life but I always associate literature with being on holiday and therefore that notion of having lots of time on your hands, so for me literature is almost a luxury and I know it shouldn’t be but it is not an everyday part of my life. If I am reading a book and I can devote myself to it its because I have the luxury of time so it is always a very positive association. When I was doing A Levels, the methodical autopsy of a text almost put me off literature. For A level English, I did John Donne and whilst I appreciated what I got out of the autopsy, it would never inspire me to pick up John Donne’s work for pleasure because it was almost clinical. Whereas when you are reading for pleasure, you interpret it as you wish.

E - How important is literature in your teaching?

MM- I teach Year 7 German at the moment. And we’re learning the topic of brother and sisters, however, and we link this to The Grimm’s fairy tales. Such as saying two stepsisters in German, and being able to link it to Cinderella. In my past teaching with older year groups, we have always used literature as a vehicle to understand the topic that we’re studying. For example, whilst studying WW2, it’s natural to bring in an extract from Anne Frank’s diary to spotlight her lived experience.

U - Other than your subject’s literature are there any particular topics you enjoy reading about?

MM - My main interests are the art and literature that goes with a culture. I am an avid collector of the textiles and jewellery of the places I have travelled to. Wherever I travel I always buy textiles and jewellery as they are so unique to that culture. I am also interested in the intangible heritage of different places, such as festivals, dances or rituals. I noticed Mr Bunn has just taken a delivery of Gamelan - when I lived in Indonesia and often travelled to Bali, I learnt much of their culture- Bali somehow doesn’t exist in my mind without Gamelan, it is part of the fabric - it accompanies every ritual in every temple. So when I hear Gamelan it transports me back to Bali.

I am interested in art and at half term I went to the Alice Neil retrospective at the Barbicanjust incredible! I visit anything - so I am pretty open when it comes to art. My daughter is an art teacher and for her degree show she did an installation so that wasn’t perhaps a conventional piece of art. I am always intrigued to speak to the artists about their explanation and justification to understand what motivated the artist to produce that, especially if it is something difficult to access. I additionally enjoy observing people responding to art and the intellectual discussions surrounding a piece rather than solely the visceral response.

E- Going back to literature that has influenced your life, where there any key works that you loved when you were a child?

MM - I used to read to Roald Dahl to my youngest brother. We had the entire collection and I’ll always have happy memories of me reading to him. With my own children, my daughter especially, grew up with Harry Potter. As a child myself, I am of the Edith Blyton generation and I remember distinctively reading the Faraway Tree. The Narnia series also resonated with me. Gerald Durrell’s ‘My Family and Other Animals’ really connected with me, that notion of dropping your life in one country and picking it back up again in another one seemed very exciting, like an adventure.

U - Do you think there is an impact on children being both read to and taught to read from a young age?

MM - Absolutely, I think it is critical. It is a critical language bond as you are not only developing their language but also an emotional bond, that intimacy of being read to. I think it is very special and you generally get it when you are a child and perhaps on the other extreme when older people can no longer read, so are read to. So I think reading to someone allows a lovely bond. I think reading to your children is super critical, the best thing you can probably do as a parent is to read to your child every night, until they get to the stage where they are old enough to read to themselves every night. Again that notion of a ritual, that special half an hour every night with your children, I used to read to my children together. My daughter would often read to my younger son as there is three years between them but that was a ritual every night in our household.

U - What were the differences in the teaching of styles surrounding literature in Chinese schools and English schools? Are they taught about English and Chinese literature? Do they do an exam in English?

MM - We were an IB school so you had to study mother tongue and a foreign language. We had many Korean, Chinese and English students. Everybody studied mother tongue, so all of our Chinese children studied Chinese literature and took an exam in it and the same happened with both the English and Korean students. You also had to do a foreign language and an exam in that. The philosophy of the IB is that it is critical for a child to remain in contact with their culture through literature because it is how you maintain your identity, but also connect and remain connected with your host country. The best three ways to keep a person connected to the culture of their own country: literature, food and ritual. I observed English, Chinese and Korean literature being delivered in the exact same methodology- even though I couldn’t understand Korean I could still see that it was a good lesson as I could see what the students were doing.

E - Can you speak Chinese?

MM - A little bit but I can’t speak much Korean; when I lived in Saudi Arabia for 6 years I spoke pretty good Arabic!

E - Do you think social media has had a harmful impact on the way children connect with literature?

MM - Absolutely, I think it’s had a harmful effect on the way that children connect with everything! The attention span of the social media generation is reduced, we know that, it’s been proven. I think there’s an expectation that everything is packaged up neatly in a few minutes which is opposite to literature. We want children to be lost in books, their imagination to run riot, however, social media doesn’t encourage that at all. It’s boxed off, short, clicky. If we are looking at children being encouraged to express things of significance, we need to model it. Therefore, stepping away from Twitter which only allows you to type 120 characters. Social media is the ‘go to’ for children nowadays, it’s what they see, how they act, whereas, when I was growing up, you went to the library and selected a book. That was the norm. Additionally, social media encourages an instant reaction, a judgement, whereas literature is more nuanced than that.

E - Expanding to a wider audience do you think the media has effected modern literature, such as its focus and the quality of the work?

MM - Technology has opened up accessibility, not just for literature but for arts in general, as you can post your own work and achieve an audience very easily. Social media has opened up access to recommendations of literature, as have podcasts. There are some books that I feel have been influenced by technology: the format, the style, the way you are able to digest it. Pre-social media, there was a lack of acceptance perhaps. More writers can achieve success now, without being defined by the conventional writers which are a part of the canon.

U - Do you prefer modern literature or the classics?

MM - I think I would have to go modern.

U - If you could recommend one modern author/ novel to the girls of Shrewsbury High School what would it be?

MM - Every girl should read an inspirational, current, credible, authentic work of a female author with a really good message. At the moment I am reading ‘Citizen’ by Claudia Rankine which I would recommend to all Sixth Formers, as it is a product of its time and a very important read.

BOTH - Thank you for your time today, it was lovely to properly meet you.