24 minute read
Always Be a Student: An Interview with Rich + Tone Talauega
by SDC Journal
BY DANI BARLOW
Rich + Tone Talauega are brothers, collaborators, and multi-hyphenate creatives whose work spans live shows, tours, television, and film. One constant among the forms of entertainment they touch is their natural curiosity. They spoke over Zoom with SDC Foundation Director Dani Barlow about the influences, inspirations, and lessons learned that they have carried with them from street dancing to Broadway, where they are currently represented as curators of Michael Jackson’s style for MJ the Musical.
DANI BARLOW | I know that you grew up street dancing and dancing in the church in Richmond, California. I’m curious if you considered that choreography. How did you know who did what moves, and when?
RICH TALAUEGA | We didn’t even know the word “choreography” existed. It was like, “What does that mean? Is that a French word?” I don’t know if you know about Malcolm Gladwell’s 10,000-Hour Rule? [In his book Outliers, Gladwell writes that the key to achieving greatness in any skill is practicing for 10,000 hours.] Coming into the business, unbeknownst to ourselves, we were putting in our 10,000 hours.
We came from a neighborhood called North Richmond, which was pretty much the ’hood; we didn’t have any access to dance studios or dance classes. We were ignorant of that whole world, but we were highly inspired by our community—Richmond, Oakland, San Francisco. The Bay Area is where a lot of styles were birthed, and the late ’80s, early ’90s, was the golden age of hip-hop. This was also around the time of the big street dance craze that was going on—breaking and popping, which started in the late ’70s, early ’80s.
We were part of a dance crew of seven or eight and we called ourselves Housing Authority. What would happen was Tone would come up with a great idea, and then someone else would have a great idea, then I would have a great idea. All of us had great ideas, and we started connecting them. Now, mind you, we didn’t know what we were doing. But you know how you start to create a syllabus, a vocabulary of movement that you always go back to and kind of remix for another show? It got to a point where the system of movements that we created became choreography.
DANI | Were there certain artists or mentors that helped inspire or develop your dancing?
RICH | Our older brothers got us into dancing, so we were highly inspired by them, but we were also very, very inspired by what was going on in the world of music and whatever we could catch on video. This was before the days of social media, iPhones, everything, right? Back in those days, people used to record videos on VCR tapes and people would borrow the tapes. We would see a four- or five-second clip in a video, and we were like, “Oh, that’s cool. We love that. We can do that.” Another thing, too, we’d just be inspired by watching cartoons. One thing I would say about hip-hop street dance, or whatever people want to call it, is that a lot of people along the way have been inspired by what was going on at that moment, in that time, right? Whatever you consumed—whether it was Bruce Lee, Bugs Bunny, robots—anything you consumed, your mind just went there, and you started to put moves together. Next thing you know, you started a style.
TONE TALAUEGA | Our two older brothers were responsible for bringing the culture of street dance into our household. There’s a thing in street dancing that is called battle dancing—where somebody goes off against somebody else—and they would do two-man routines, practicing in the front yard of our house. They were our first inspiration. Then you had local street legends like the Electric Boogaloos, Popin’ Pete, and Boogaloo Sam, who came a generation before us. We regard them as the top of the mountain in terms of street dance. They were responsible for creating the funk style called Boogaloo from Fresno, CA, which— along with Locking, from Los Angeles—were the two styles that were at the focal point of early street dance culture. The Nicholas Brothers, who performed in the 1930s and ’40s, were also a really huge influence on our upbringing in terms of the world of dance. To this day, I can’t imagine anybody doing the type of routines that they did.
Travis Payne and LaVelle Smith Jr., who discovered us, were a very integral part of building our skills as choreographers. They were the ones who took us under their wing and started showing us the ropes on how to put a performance together for recording artists—whether it was a tour, a 30-second commercial, film, TV, or live. We started to understand that there was a method behind choreography, whether it was staging, knowing how to pull focus on stage, knowing how to tell story with movement. They sat us down, and were like, “Look, if you guys are serious about this, you need to study X, Y, and Z.” So, we started getting hip to Bob Fosse. We started getting hip to, obviously, Michael [Jackson]’s genius in terms of how he would create a stage performance.
Their methods were unconventional because they would take a little bit from the ballet world, they would take a little bit from the street world. We also influenced them, because when they saw us dance, we introduced them to a whole new language of movement. They would take a little bit from what we did, and then they would mix it up and create a hybrid. We picked up a lot from these guys, but we put our own spin on it. We were taking a little bit of influence from the streets and a little bit of influence from what they taught us, and also trying to match the sort of acrobatic, high-energy vocabulary that the Nicholas Brothers did. We tried to put that all in a pot and create our own style.
"The Nicholas Brothers...were also a really huge influence.... To this day, I can't imagine anybody doing the type of routines they did." —Tone Talauega
RICH | Two other groups I want to add to that were Demons of the Mind from the Bay Area and Mop Top from New York City.
TONE | I would say that we are historians when it comes to the street styles of dance; we like to do a lot of research and a lot of homework, and we love it because it makes us stronger. A lot of people don’t teach the basics of this language in school or in classes. They’ll make money off it, but they don’t necessarily know the history behind it. Michael would always tell us that if you want to be great, study the greats, so that’s what we would do. They didn’t have to be super famous or popular in the commercial world. We found icons and legends within the street world, as well, who didn’t get credit. We would always big them up any time we would do interviews and people would ask us who we were influenced by; we put them on a high pedestal because if it wasn’t for them, we probably wouldn’t be here talking.
DANI | I think it’s so good to be able to say their names whenever you have the chance. Dance doesn’t come out of nowhere, but if you don’t have that history recorded, if you’re not able to speak it, then people won’t even know where to look for it. Being able to say these things in recorded moments is what allows their work—and everything they did that looks like something that is familiar to us, but we don’t know where it came from—to live on.
You created your own style by pulling from different inspirations and doing a lot of research. When you work with artists like Michael Jackson or Madonna, I’m curious how you approach the creative process and meld their styles and their types of music with the unique way that you move.
RICH | When we were starting, we knew that we wanted to be choreographers, and that we wanted to choreograph these artists. We had our dream list, our goals. Then, of course, when it happens, you’re like, “Oh, oh, oh my God! What am I going to do?”
I use Madonna as a great example because she’s conceptual; she’s the Queen of Pop and a conceptual dance artist, if that makes sense. We’ve done four or five tours with her; the concepts that she and her team— including Jamie King, who has been an amazing director for her—come up with help create a nice playground to play in, because it gives us some direction. If there isn’t anything like that, if you don’t come in with a set of rules or a set of ideas, you are kind of just wandering. One thing I would say with choreography is that what helps create movement is ideas and themes and thesis. Even something small, because otherwise, it goes back to just the whole raw, “This is what I feel,” and there’s only so many times you can get away with that.
With every artist we work with, their ideas help us create movement. With Chris Brown, it’s more, “I’m going to have fun with this movement.” It may not be as conceptual as working with Madonna, but it’s something that is going to move. It’s young, it’s a party, and so on and so forth. Now, the King of Pop, that’s a whole other thing right there. You’re talking about the man that actually created his own style of dance—you really don’t stray away from the power of what he created.
When we did “You Rock My World,” it was challenging, obviously. It was our first time actually being choreographers for Michael Jackson. We had the concept, but still—to create movement for that song was challenging. What’s inspirational for us is to make sure that we know how we are going into a project. What is the idea? What is the theme? That is going to inspire the movement.
TONE | Exactly. You create a set of rules within the world that you’re given, and then when you follow those rules, you start to really be creative instead of just going off on a tangent because you want to create eye candy. You work off the narrative, which the good choreographers do. It’s like my brother was saying: What is the theme? What is the world? What’s the zip code that you’re in? When you start understanding that, you start to build a narrative. Then when you start following that narrative, everything starts to make sense as to why you’re moving the way you’re moving.
Music is key because that’s where you get the feeling that enables you to move a certain way. I will say all three artists that my brother was using as examples are all very different zip codes to live in, and the challenging part was how to weave in what you want to say as a creative artist. And to do it in a subliminal way where it doesn’t take away from the narrative, but it elevates it.
DANI | You are multi-hyphenates— performers, choreographers, creative directors, and musicians, to name a few. Did expanding your style and the type of work that you do happen naturally or intentionally?
TONE | I would say it came naturally. My brother and I are passionate about all aspects of entertainment, from lighting to costumes to musical direction to narrative to writing to directing. We were always very curious about the method to the madness. When we worked on projects, whether it was a commercial or a music video or a live tour or a film, we would always be behind the camera, always studying what every other department was doing. It was almost like going to the ultimate film school, but we were getting paid to go to school and we took full advantage of it. We would see why directors would choose certain angles to elevate the dance or the choreography and we would study that, and how lighting, color, costumes, and sound design help push the narrative forward.
We did a documentary feature called Rize, where we featured this new street style called Krumping. We did it with David LaChappelle, who is a high-end photographer/director, a really good friend of ours. That was our opportunity to showcase everything that we’ve learned so far in terms of dance— telling a story with dance, and also directing and producing and editing. At the end of the day, it’s all knowledge. It’s all education, right?
To get better, you have to just jump off the cliff and do it. That’s what we did, and that’s how we sharpened our skills in all these different facets of entertainment. That’s how we fell down the rabbit hole of learning all the aspects of telling a story through art. We took full advantage of where we were at each particular moment in time. Some people can just let it fly over their heads. We took the opportunity; we knew that there was some knowledge going on and being passed around here. It’s either you want to dive into it or not. You can stay in your own lane and just work on choreography and this, that, or the other. We didn’t see it that way. You want to be better at something, you’ve got to want to learn it.
Michael always used to tell us to always be a student, because if you think you’re a master, that’s when it dies for you, because you don’t want to learn anymore.
We always took that saying literally and we always applied it to every job that we worked on, including the musical. MJ the Musical was our opportunity to learn real Broadway theatrical language, how it’s done, how it really works. We kept our antennas up the whole time.
DANI | This is not your first Michael Jackson endeavor. You bring a very specific knowledge and skill set to lifting up the legacy of such an iconic artist, preserving the authenticity of Michael Jackson’s movements, but you work with new creative teams each time.
RICH | One thing that can get in the way of the work is ego and not being able to want to work with people. Tone and I harbor the realm of energy of collaboration big time. It goes back to our early days when we were part of a group, you know? “Oh, Tone got a hot move. Okay, well, I got a hot move. Okay, now, let’s put that other hot move together.” It was a collaboration. Fast forward, that concept just kept rolling with us. That’s something that is great about art.
Tone and I are also two individuals. There are things that he focuses on that I may not focus on, and vice versa, so then we have to have a collaboration between ourselves and be able to agree with that before we can agree with the person that we’re going to help. Does that make sense?
DANI | It does.
RICH | It’s like therapy. The more you work on projects, you find yourself being a therapist or a psychiatrist, because the majority of the time you’re trying to help that person believe, or help that person move from point A to point B, or help that director round out their thoughts, you know? Each project that we go to, we immerse ourselves into that project like a halfway-molded piece of clay, and then that piece of clay gets formed into whatever statue it needs to be. Or it’s like a bunch of Lego pieces coming together and you don’t have directions. Then, finally, the director’s like, “Aah,” and you help put those directions together. Next thing you know, you have a guide to follow, you know?
We are blessed and lucky to be able to be curators of Michael Jackson’s dance style. That is something that we hold very dear to our hearts, and that’s something that we have to uphold. It’s a task that was given to us unbeknownst, and we’re trying our best to make sure that we uphold it. We’re very lucky that we’re able to be on these different projects and have his dance style be respected. That’s first and foremost. What’s the constant? The constant is Michael, and the constant is his music, and there’s this other language that he created, which was dance. It’s the moving picture language. That’s what it is. You see it, you get inspired by it without even having to know what he said. That right there is a power, and sometimes we pinch ourselves, “Wow, man, we’re jumping from project to project and we’re upholding this man’s legacy by way of his second language, which is movement.”
The most exciting thing about working on these different projects is that we’re adapting Michael for each generation. That is the cool thing right there, man. Young kids are going to watch this Broadway show and they’re being introduced to Michael, and they’re able to see someone emulate his movement to a degree that is respected within the rules of his style. Michael made it to Broadway and it’s a hit show. Being in that theatre and seeing people of every age and walk of life just be inspired, from the youngest of the youngest to the old cat— you know what I mean?
DANI | This is your first Broadway show. Is there anything about the experience of working on Broadway where you felt this was super different?
TONE | One of the main things was the live music in rehearsal, the freedom to do things in the moment—“Could you do it under tempo for me just to work on this one section so the dancer can understand the pocket that we want the moves to be set in?” My brother and I wish that we could have that on every project. When we got a taste of it in rehearsals, we thought, “Okay, this is how it really should be done in all spectrums of the entertainment world.” That spoke to us because we love live music.
Anything done to track is good. You still have the spirit of it. But the soul, the heartbeat, is when you do it live, and then you can hear it coming from the drummer, and then you get this feeling that you can’t get from playing from track. That would be the number one thing that I took away from my experience working on Broadway: Yes, always do it live. What was cool was that it was a rule; we would use the track music to do a warm-up, but when it was time to work on the actual number, we couldn’t use it. It was exciting to work with the musicians—face to face, hand in hand—and be able to say, “Michael would do an accent here.” Then we would add that accent right then and there.
RICH | On top of what Tone just said, the rehearsal process is what I love. I can say, “Give me two bars before the first verse when da da da da da,” and they go right there. “Can you slow it down about two beats?” It’s just like, “Oh my God, this has warmed my heart.” You know what it felt like working on Broadway? It was like, “Oh, wait, this is what we are supposed to be doing. This is it. This is it.” You know what I mean? It was almost like doing 10,000 hours all over again.
The challenge—that we had to do everything over and over again—was stressful, but it made us better. It made us work... I wouldn’t say faster, but more expeditiously.
TONE | What was fascinating to me were the transitions from scene to scene; in my mind, those were full-out numbers. How they used the lighting, or the quick change of a coat, or how they used choreography and staging to transition, and how that all weaved together. When you see a transition in the show, it goes by so quickly, right? When you see it in rehearsal, you see it was very carefully crafted by Chris Wheeldon. As my brother was saying, we were going back to school all over again, but this is the stuff that we’re geeks about, because a transition would be just as important as the next scene coming up or the scene before.
DANI | I saw it again the other night, and I was like, “Wow, those transitions!” I know there is something expert being done that allows the whole piece to feel like it is one. It’s all the little things that you saw in the rehearsal room that the audience is not catching. I love what you say about always being curious and being a student; that’s a great thing to be reminded of. Often, there is only one director and choreographer in the room, so there isn’t the same kind of opportunity to learn from other choreographers.
I’m curious if you have any lessons you can share for how you have figured out how to work with each other. Obviously, there’s an element that is family, but are there other moments where you’re like, “We know that if we are struggling with something, sitting over in the corner and hashing it out is best” or “We figured out that you take this, I take that”?
"If you don't understand the whole concept of checking your ego at the door, it's not going to work well for you when you're collaborating with other high-level thinkers, creative minds." —Tone Talauega
RICH | Tone and I can both answer this. One of the most important things is cognitive listening, making sure that you are in the moment and being able to listen to your partner, listen to one another. Being able to know how to read the room is another. There may be days where we come in and one of has had a bad day. Knowing how to read the room equates to making sure not to get on each other’s nerves. That’s the main thing right there; once you get on each other’s nerves, ain’t no work getting done at all. You’ve got to be sensitive to that. There’s that and making sure there’s always respect. Tone and I are brothers. We know each other’s buttons to push; we know each other’s everything. Respect is big because if you don’t have that, then there is no team. The T in team is the last letter in respect.
There are times where Tone has a very good idea for one part of the song. When that happens, I have to be able to put my ego to the side and be like, “Okay, he’s hot on that. I may have wanted to do some of that, but no, if he’s hot on that, let him be hot on that. Let me go be hot over here so we can make sure we finish this in the time that we have.”
TONE | If we’re working on a song, I might come in with a frame of what it could be movement-wise and aesthetic-wise, and then my brother will say, “Okay, yeah, I have an idea, too,” but if I’m hot on it, he’ll let me do it. My brother will come in after I’m done, and he will be like, “It’s great, but I think if you were to do this and move these people down at this particular time on this part of the music, I think it’ll be a lot more effective.” After I put my ideas out, I’m more open to it. And obviously, if I did have a thing against what he’s trying to do, I let him finish the idea first instead of butting in and being like, “No, no, no, no, no. I think it should go back to the original,” because that’s the line of respect that you don’t cross. You only cross it when they fully have the idea out in the open. That’s when you can cross the line and be like, “Now that I’ve seen it, I think keep your idea, but hold these guys back for eight counts before they come out.”
Then, next thing you know, we’re shaping together without disrespecting each other as creatives. We didn’t understand that method in the early days, but we learned that over time, working on different projects and working with other people, too. If you don’t understand the whole concept of checking your ego at the door, it’s not going to work well for you when you’re collaborating with other high-level thinkers, creative minds. At the end of the day, you want to learn, but also you want to kind of show off your creativity, your creative skills, as well. It’s understanding that fine line, that imaginary line and when to cross it or not cross it; you only understand that with experience.
Those are the things I will say in terms of what really works with us and how we communicate. Also—my brother would say this too—sometimes he would be the communicator and I would be the thinker.
With certain projects those roles can be switched, and I will be the communicator and my brother will sit back and be the thinker about specific things. But we always go in with those titles first—that my brother would be the communicator of the idea, and I would be the thinker of how to create or what should be presented.
"You know what it felt like working on Broadway? It was like, 'Oh, wait, this is what we are supposed to be doing.'” —Rich Talauega
RICH | The last thing I would say is still being able to love what we do because if we don’t love it, then we need to do something else, or the product is not going to come out the way that we see it in our minds. I think I speak for both of us on this. We still love what we do. It’s like back in the days with our homies in recreation centers or garages or front yards and it’s like, “Hey, did you do that move? Then I’m going to do this move, and we’re going to do it after the boom, boom, boom.” That’s the language of putting things together.
TONE | The common denominator for me and my brother is that we love music. We love making music. We love choreographing the music. As my brother was saying, it always goes back to the early days of how we used to create. We still hold onto that now, but we do it in a much more professional manner. And we always hold onto the idea of finding the little kid in you. Obviously, there are pressured moments where you really need to buckle down and finish something, but also you are always trying not to get too lost in the seriousness of creation. The stuff that actually makes you strong as a creative is just going in and having fun with the music and being inspired by it, or finding other inspirations in other things, and then coming back to the project more inspired to work on it. Always find that little kid in you, man, and always make sure that comes out first.
