November/December 2015
Dance Central A Dance Centre Publication
Content Re-Discovery A conversation with Shay Kuebler Page 2
Dance In Vancouver An Invitation by Mirna Zagar Page 7
Feeling Moved Pirjetta Mulari Page 8
Work. Not Practice. A conversation with Jo Leslie Page 12
Welcome to Dance Central
This issue of Dance Central is published as Dance In Vancouver is about to launch. It features an interview with guest curator Pirjetta Mulari about her experience selecting artists work by media, and an invitation to the event by The Dance Centre's Executive Director, Mirna Zagar. The Thinking Bodies series continues with a conversation with Shay Kuebler whose Radical System Art company will be premiering GLORY at Dance In Vancouver. In the Critical Movement department, we feature former Montreal-based choreographer, director and dance dramaturge Jo Leslie, who is now living in Victoria and recently collaborated on the development 4OUR with Joe Ink. in a conversation centred on her thoughts about dance dramaturgy and her upcoming work. As always, we thank all the artists who have agreed to contribute and we welcome new writing and project ideas at any time, in order to continue to make Dance Central a more vital link to the community. Please send material by email to members@thedancecentre.ca or call us at 604.606.6416. We look forward to the conversation! Andreas Kahre, Editor 2
Dance Central November/December 2015
Shay Kuebler Radical System Art was formed in Vancouver, Canada, in February 2014 to support and develop the work of Artistic Director Shay Kuebler. The company is building upon the creations, productions and relationships that have been created through Shay Kuebler’s years as an independent artist and collaborator in Canada. His work has crossed the boundaries of theatre, multiple forms of dance and physical performance including works for Les Grands Ballet Canadiens, CitieBallet, Ecole de Danse de Quebec and The Place School of Contemporary Dance in London. He is also one of the founding directors of 605 Collective. His choreographic work has been commissioned for national and international festivals such as The Canada Dance Festival, The Dancing on the Edge Festival, The International Dance Festival of Brazil and The Baalbek Arts Festival in Lebanon.
Thinking Bodies:
A conversation with Shay Kuebler
Re-Discovery AK: It looks like you are madly busy at the moment. Is this a good thing? SK: It is a bit crazy; I am in between three projects, dancing nine to five every day in Montreal, preparing for a new work and doing administrative work for my company, but I feel very fortunate: this is what I have wanted to do ever since I started in Martial Arts and theatre when I was five. I feel very lucky to be involved in so many projects with different people and companies and age groups; I will be working with students from NYU this year, as well as my own company and more senior artists, and will explore all the new ideas I have been exposed to. AK: You started your own company last year? SK: Yes, in 2014. I have been doing work as an individual artist for some time, and it felt like this was the right time to formalize it as a society company. AK: You were one of the founders of 605 Collective. Has your involvement come to an end or are you still connected? SK: I was one of the founding members, back in 2007, and I am still connected to Josh and Lisa, the other two founding directors. We talk and catch up on each others work, but I am taking a hiatus from the collective. I feel like I have a limited amount of time to really push myself as a performer and choreographer of my own work, and I felt that I needed to have a bit more freedom to fully explore what I want to do. I have so many interests outside of the scope of 605 that I felt it was time to step out and find my own voice. AK: Comparing 605’s and your work, there is a very different flavour. How does it feel to be working on your own, as opposed to in a collective process? SK: It is a hard thing; collaborations and working collectively, especially when you have three people who are jointly choreographer and artistic director. The central thing is to give everyone an equal platform to discover their own ideas and to research them. There is always a little pressure brought on by the fact that you can only take so much time for everybody’s ideas, and the necessity to make sure you have really clear conversations outside rehearsal, and catch up on everybody’s Dance Central November/December 2015
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Thinking Bodies:
A conversation with Shay Kuebler
but I also wanted to make sure there was clarity and a vision for transmitting that to an audience, so I asked Alex. I really respect him because he has done so many different things with performance, theatre and dance, and I hope to get him back onboard in the summer for a new solo show based on body building culture. It’s a full length piece, and it needs to be rigorous in the
individual work. I feel very fortunate to have had the time I
development of the character and his emotional states.
did, because it put my focus on working on my work as an artist, which was different from Josh and Lisa, and it made me
AK: What is your background in theatre?
recognize what I found important and what had strength in my work.
SK: I started studying at Stage Polaris Theatre Academy when I was about five, where we did traditional scripted work, physical
AK: You present your work, especially in the context of the
theatre, and plays. I did young plays like Charlie and the Choco-
company, with a very strong emphasis on specific themes
late factory and a couple of intensive summer programs with
and situations; some resemble research proposals. Is that
Rapid Fire Improv theatre—I really loved it; it really connected
how it works for you?
to me because of my background in martial arts sparring, where you take all the things you have learned technically and try to
SK: I want to rediscover my craft and the form with every
use them in the moment, in a fluid way. Then I went on to high
piece I am working on. The new piece I am working on, titled
school theatre programs and some private classes.
Telemetry, is going on the premise of the human body being a receiver/ transmitter/satellite of energy, music, sound — and
AK: Are you comfortable speaking and being on stage in a ‘the-
from that it plays with a language influenced by jazz culture
atre body’?
which is one of our original Western forms of dance, so we are playing with swing language, bebop, funk, fusion—foot
SK: Yes, and I have really been missing it. When I first ap-
work kind of jazz–soft–shoe–tap dancing. It’s a huge mix of
proached Karoshi, people said ‘It’s so theatrical’, but the piece
things but I feel that each piece is an opportunity to develop
needed it. I had the opportunity to perform in my friend Danny
my craft. After Telemetry I have an idea for a piece that may
Nielsen’s show, where I had some scripted character work, and
be more theatrical and deal with a mixture of a Kurosawa
that was one of the hardest performances I had to do in a while,
Samurai film, Shakespeare, videogames and cartoon charac-
but I love to express myself that way as well as physically. The
ters. I don’t often get these opportunities to do just my own
two connect; you can do great movement, but if you embed it
work, with just my dancers, my company, and when they
with reasoning and added purpose and intention, the audience
appear, they are very important: It’s an absolute necessity,
will connect further.
for myself and for the community, to rediscover what we are doing.
AK: Some performers are comfortable in both the actor’s and the dancer’s body, and some claim that the two are similar but
AK: Speaking of the theatrical aspect of your work. Alex
different. How do you experience it?
Lazarides Ferguson mentioned in a recent conversation with Dance Central that he had been working with you as a
SK: I have spent so much time in physical body that when I am
dramaturge. He mentioned you as an example of a choreog-
in character I am always in my dancer body; they aren’t that
rapher who had a very specific idea of what he wanted from
separate, but when you do scripted work there is a different
a dramaturge, which is not all that common.
focus. On the other hand, scripted work is also like choreography, with points and marks to hit, and a rhythm. I don’t have the
SK: I will always hearken back to my roots in theatre and
same level of investment in theatre work, but I feel they meet in
martial arts, and when I was making Karoshi, a show about
the middle, and as I get older, I think my work will include more
Japanese culture, there had to be real investment in the char-
theatrical aspects.
acters' development and the storytelling aspect, although it’s non-linear. The characters feel pressure, and are at a break-
AK: There is also a strong media component, in your dance work
ing point. I wanted to show this without making it too literal,
and in how you present your company. Do you create and edit media content yourself?
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Dance Central November/December 2015
"It’s an absolute necessity, for myself and for the community, to constantly redisover what we are doing.
Dance Central November/December 2015
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Dance Central The Dance Centre Scotiabank Dance Centre Level 6, 677 Davie Street Vancouver BC V6B 2G6 T 604.606.6400 F 604.606.6401 info@thedancecentre.ca www.thedancecentre.ca Dance Central is published every two months by The Dance Centre for its members and for the dance community. Opinions expressed are those of the authors and do not necessarily represent Dance Central or The Dance Centre. The editor reserves the right to edit for clarity or length, or to meet house requirements. Editor Andreas Kahre Copy Editor Hilary Maxwell Contributors to this issue: Shay Kuebler, Pirjetta Mulari, Jo Leslie, Mirna Zagar Photography: David Cooper (cover), Shay Kuebler, and others. Dance Centre Board Members Chair Ingrid M. Tsui Vice Chair Beau Howes, CFA Secretary Margaret Grenier Treasurer Matthew Breech Directors Geoff Chen Susan Elliott Anusha Fernando Kate Franklin Kate Lade Anndraya T. Luui Josh Martin Starr Muranko Dance Foundation Board Members Chair Linda Blankstein Secretary Anndraya T. Luui Treasurer Jennifer Chung Directors Trent Berry, Kimberley Blackwell, Janice Wells, Andrea R. Wink Dance Centre Staff: Executive Director Mirna Zagar Programming Coordinator Raquel Alvaro Marketing Manager Heather Bray Venue and Services Administrator Robin Naiman Development Director Sheri Urquhart Technical Directors Justin Aucoin and Mark Eugster Accountant Elyn Dobbs Member Services Coordinator Hilary Maxwell
The Dance Centre is BC's primary resource centre for the dance profession and the public. The activities of The Dance Centre are made possible bynumerous individuals. Many thanks to our members, volunteers, community peers, board of directors and the public for your ongoing commitment to dance in BC. Your suggestions and feedback are always welcome. The operations of The Dance Centre are supported by the Canada Council for the Arts, the Province of British Columbia, the BC Arts Council, and the City of Vancouver through the Office of Cultural Affairs.
Thinking Bodies:
A conversation with Shay Kuebler
SK: I have been fortunate to work with a good friend, Josh Hite, on a couple of projects. For example, in Karoshi he was instrumental in producing a lot of the visual material, but I was really hands on with him to make sure that whenever there was media content, it was really interwoven into the performance language. For example, in Karoshi we had stock market tickers running across the floor, like a video game, and we spent a lot of time to find landmarks to connect the video exactly with the timing of the performance. In Glory, I used GoPros and did a bit of the filming and editing and sound design myself, because it made the most sense. AK: It really shows, because video is often a separate layer. In your work the pace and rhythm of the editing is very closely integrated. Do you set the pace for all the elements? SK: Yes. For me, the central element that connects them is sound. I still have a musical mind from doing tap and hiphop dance and contemporary choreography for so many years, so when we add video work it has to have the same connection to sound and the energy on the stage. Especially for Glory which was about the glorification and sensationalizing of violence in media, the editing and pacing of the show had a feeling like cinematic cuts, sharp, fast, attention grabbing, because that is what is happening with the culture we live in. Media had to be a propeller that pushed the work forward. AK: When your work is placed outdoors, it feels very comfortable in an urban setting, resembling parcours at times. In the context of black box theatre the confinement changes that freedom. How do you work with the difference? SK: I am always trying to use all the potential. In a black box, the parameters are somewhat set, and we try to expand them by adding media and lighting, but there are certain logistical challenges that are always in place and are a challenge but also exciting. When you work,
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Dance Central November/December 2015
continued on page 18
Dance In Vancouver: An Invitation by Mirna Zagar: Here we are, last edition prior to the year's end, and a time to look back on our achievements as much as to look with anticipation to the year ahead. The past year was one of several accomplishments and the past couple of months were as dynamic as the community we serve, dedicated to finalizing the program for the upcoming Dance In Vancouver event. I am confident that we have, together with Pirjetta Mulari, this year's curator, prepared a series of events which will inspire, prompt dialogue and be reason to celebrate. Working with outside curators offers our community a unique opportunity to see ourselves through the lens of the other. It also provides an opportunity to contextualize Vancouver's vibrant contemporary and ever–growing scene within a broader context. Pirjetta's perspective is particularly interesting, I believe, as the Finnish contemporary dance scene is very diverse, and there are some interesting parallels to British Columbia. Working in a context of remote communities, and located on the rim of Norther Europe, they have had to work hard to overcome the notion of isolation, and to connect and be creative regarding building audiences and also building connections to increase touring, both within Finland, and across the Nordic states. Pirjetta is internationally recognized for her contributions to the development of the dance scene in Europe as well as Finland and the Nordic countries. Her connections in Asia are also very dynamic and strong; something we can learn from. I am confident that our community
will quickly warm up to her once you meet her in person and I encourage you to talk to her. Indeed make sure you meet all of our guests, those you know already, and more importantly those who are new. We have guests arriving from as far as Asia and New Zealand. If you in any way are an active participant in BC's dance ecology we encourage you to attend the events, and join in the conversations. Remember, our guests are here to meet you as well as to see your work! This is an opportunity for encounters, learning and exchanging knowledge, experiences and information. Dance In Vancouver is first and foremost a meeting of like minds, of colleagues of all backgrounds who work in dance, and an opportunity to connect to those familiar and those new. Participating in the festival can be the critical first step in one's career towards paving a new path, making the next step. And, if you have been around for the past renditions of Dance In Vancouver, please use this opportunity to reconnect and let the community know of your recent achievements and your plans for the future, using the many formal and informal networking opportunities. To all who have been with us this past year, thank you for your contributions and support! Here is wishing you all the very best in the year ahead. Mirna Zagar
Dance Central November/December 2015
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Feeling Pirjetta Mulari MOVED
DANCE IN VANCOUVER:: A conversation with
AK: Mirna Zagar invited you to curate Dance In Vancouver this year. How long have you known the Vancouver dance community? PM: My history in Vancouver is limited; I was in BC as an exchange student in 1988/1989, mainly in Victoria, and the actual selection for Dance In Vancouver was made through video, in close communication with Mirna. There had to be a lot of discussion, because the program is a wide selection of what is happening in Vancouver, and I feel very humble, because I have seen work only in video, and it might be different on stage of course. AK: It is an interesting approach, especially in view of the fact that more and more people experience dance in a mediated form. How
Pirjetta Mulari has been working as the manager for international affairs at Dance Info Finland since 2005. She has been developing Dance Info Finland’s international work and within that programmes such as Korea-Finland Connection, exchange, co-production and residence programmes between Japan and Finland, and Australia-Finland Dance Exchange. Mulari is active through her job in Nordic collaboration projects (kedja, ICE HOT), and also the Finnish partner for Aerowaves network in Europe. Prior to her current job, Mulari has been working in different managerial positions including Helsinki 2000 – European Cultural City office, Nomadi Productions, Heureka – the Finnish Science Centre and Dance Arena. She has an MA in Dance Studies from the Laban Centre, London, and studies in Physical Education, Law and Cultural Politics from Finland. She worked as a choreographer and dance teacher before turning to arts management.
did you find the process? PM: You could spend a lot more time on it, but we did the best we could, and I am very pleased with the selection. Unlike the applications for other performance platforms, Dance In Vancouver applications don’t require you to show the work you will present, so we received anything from rehearsal clips to sketches, and I felt that we were choosing the artists more than specific works. I think that is a good way to approach an event like this, because it means you end up with the latest work. Mirna and I worked closely; I have known her for years, since we first met in Yokohama in Japan, and we have been meeting in many places over the years. I think she asked me to co-curate because she felt that we are both dealing with similar scenes and share similar values, and like her, I have a background in ethnic dance. The BC scene doesn’t seem so different from what I am used to, and I can really respect the different forms that it takes, so I think we had the best conditions for the process of working just through video. An alternative would have been to interview the choreographers, but that, too, would have been through video, so we worked pretty much with written applications and video. Mirna, Raquel and the staff of DIV were also very helpful in giving me background information about all of the artists. AK: Did you or do you have a sense of the Vancouver dance community, and how it is developing and evolving?
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Dance Central November/December 2015
"Curating is a curious word."
Dance Central November/December 2015
9
DANCE IN VANCOUVER A conversation with
Pirjetta Mulari
What do you think? How is the Vancouver audience? AK: Changing, like the city itself. One constant about Vancouver is that it continually forgets and reinvents itself, driven by external factors such as the global movement of money and people, and the gradual emancipation from the colonial social model. Improvisation and interdisciplinary models
PM: My impression had been that it was much less diverse
flourished here, and audiences moved with the artists, and
than it really is, that it was more American than European
while they have always been small for a city this size, they are
in its influences. I know the Quebec scene quite well, but I
very supportive of the artistic community. They also sense
came to view the Vancouver scene with a fresh look in many
Vancouver’s changed position in the international context,
ways, and I was very surprised by the diversity and versatil-
and they are well informed about visual art. That brings me
ity. It was a very energetic look, and I can see now that this
to another question: You use the term curator, rather than
community is much closer to Europe than the US. Also, I think
programmer, presenter, or producer. What does it mean to
that dance theatre lives quite strongly in BC, and is develop-
you in the context of dance?
ing there, in a fresh and intelligent way in work like Vanessa Goodman's. And I was surprised by the quality of the young
PM: I was just on a panel where we were discussing this. The
artists.
term is so strongly informed by the visual arts, and, I have to say, it wasn't my choice to be a guest curator, as such, but it
AK: Did you have a curatorial concept or theme?
has entered the language everywhere; in Finland we now call people curators as well. It is a complicated concept, because
PM: For me, the most important thing about dance is that it
it comes from another artform, and you have to be quite
communicates, not just about itself but about wider con-
careful when you use the term. A presenter to me is someone
cerns. There was no theme at the start, but what developed
who is working in a venue or festival and works on one edi-
was to show the field in its diversity. Curating an event like
tion or programme at a time. Programmer might be a better
Dance In Vancouver is a bit different than curating around
term, because curator is a curious word and while it is used a
a theme, because it is a platform that represents the entire
lot, I am not sure people understand what it stands for.
community. AK: Do you ‘curate’ as part of your normal working practice? AK: Were there works that surprised you? PM: I am not a presenter as such, because I work as the PM: What surprised me was the quality of the performers,
manager of international affairs at Dance Info Finland, an
of the dancing, and of the ideas, because my idea was so
export organization, so we work on developing the art of
old-fashioned, which was totally wrong. But that shows the
dance, which includes database and statistics, and informa-
fact that for BC companies there really is space in the global
tion for professional artists, and we are very active in building
dance market, if you want to call it that. I see a lot of dance,
support for organizations and artists. I have been doing jury
and I don’t encounter BC artists often on the international
and curatorial work for other dance platforms and networks,
scene, and I think there really is space for them.
and while I am not a presenter, I am at times invited to curate because I work on finding and supporting new talent, and
AK: Do you have a sense of how Vancouver audiences might
I spend much time in the international scene to find artists
respond to the event's programme?
connections, and people that would be interesting to our Finnish colleagues.
PM: No, I don’t. I have a feeling that Vancouver as a city is very future-oriented in many ways, so I expect that audienc-
AK: How do people in the Finnish dance community perceive
es will be very interested and culturally involved, but as I say,
Canadian dance? Is there an awareness of it?
for me the main thing is that art communicates and I really hope that DIV talks to the audience. 10
Dance Central November/December 2015
PM: No, and that is one reason why Mirna invited me, to
"I felt that we were choosing the artists more than specific works. I think that is a good way to approach an event like this, because it means you end up with the latest work." encourage new collaborations. Canada, and especially BC, is so
the network: Before, if you were an African choreographer
far away from our imagination. Montreal is much closer to us, and
without international support, no one would know about
I would say that there is a sense of the Montreal scene in Finland,
you, but now, if you have an internet connection, you can
because artists like Marie Chouinard have performed in Finland,
become visible to the rest of the world. This also applies
but the Vancouver scene is very distant. I am hoping that Dance In
to BC artists, and our task is to create structures to support
Vancouver will be an opportunity to build connections to Europe
them in getting their work seen.
and other Nordic countries. AK: What would you like audiences to encounter when AK: Dance is reaching into media more and more, and artists like
they come to DIV?
Sammy Chien deliberately at the interstice between physical and mediated performance. Do you think the selection process for this
PM: I hope that they feel moved when they come to see
event can help audiences accept more mediated forms of dance,
the work. The world is changing so rapidly, and whether
beyond the documentary aspect? Are you interested in encourag-
you are a professional or an art lover, or come to a dance
ing that encounter?
performance for the first time, I hope that it somehow moves you. You don’t have to like it, but it is good when you
PM: Yes; just recently we nearly got EU funding for a project that
feel that there is something to be processed. I live a very
would reach out to audiences in non-physical formats. Of course
normal life outside my professional connection with dance,
you can never change the real experience of a live body, but there
and many of my friends find contemporary dance difficult
is so much development in filming dance, in VR presence, where
to connect with, and I say: “Please don't try to understand;
you can actually feel the dance, and new technology is developing.
you can just watch and let your ideas flow!” I feel that there
There is also so much talk about sustainability, while we all travel
is nothing in the DIV program that is too conceptual and
so much, that I think it is becoming a very hot topic—how to exist
inaccessible; I wouldn’t call it audience friendly— that is a
as a bodily artform other than on a stage. There are a lot of ways to
bad word, I know,— but there is something for everyone. I
make it work. I am here in Hammerfest in Norway, and there a lot
am also very eager to meet the artists in eye to eye conver-
of dance films, where people are creating work in the forest or on
sation when I come to Vancouver for the DIV event.
mountains. There are so many new ways, and there is a future in creating dance work in that frame. Many presenters are now saying
AK: Thank you!
that social media have become so widespread that it has changed Dance Central November/December 2015
11
Critical Movements:
An interview with
Jo Leslie
Work. Not Practice.
Jo has contributed to over 130 productions in theatre, new opera and dance as movement director, dance dramaturge, choreographer, director and coach. She is an influential teacher of both actors and dancers, an innovator of community projects and programs and a true champion of the Canadian performing arts with input into many aspects of the industry. Born in Halifax and raised in England her career spans 3 decades. Jo began dancing at 4 years of age and at 17 began a prominent career in contemporary dance. A leader in the Montreal dance community she spearheaded dance-music improvisation, toured her dramatic solo work nationally, taught prolifically and worked as a dance journalist (The HOUR, weekly) 25 original works were produced in Canada. She cofounded Studio 303 and the vernissage performance series. Studio 303 has since grown into Canada’s premier training centre and presenter for new dance and performance. 12
Dance Central November/December 2015
Dance Central November/December 2015
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AK: You have moved to BC, after living for many years in Montreal
dance dramaturgs, and I know that has been a part of your
and Toronto. What made you decide on Victoria?
work for a long time. Given the wide range of things you do, what place does dramaturgy have in your practice?
JL: It was Vancouver or Victoria, and Vancouver is really expensive, wet and gray. My partner and I were taking a leap, and we thought
JL: Firstly, I don't use the word 'practice'. I have never come
it might as well be a big one. We also figured that I could still work
around to the use of that word and how it applies to me, be-
in Vancouver if we decided to come to Victoria. That was a year
cause I have been a hired hand for so many years in the theatre
and a half ago.
world and that is very different than being someone who constantly generates their own work. Which I did until 1998,
AK: Are you continuing to work in Eastern Canada?
and the term ‘practice’ was not in use then. In terms of dramaturgy - I had been working in theatre and I had a dance career,
JL: Not as much, although I was presented at the Festival of New
so it made total sense to bring the tools of theatre, the craft,
Dance in St. John’s last fall with a dancer from Montreal—and was
knowledge and experience and vocabulary back into dance.
the animateur—, and that's where I met Joe Laughlin; we had never
The need was apparent. I had gone into theatre in the first place
met, although we had known about each other for twenty-five
because I wanted to work with people who were articulating
years. That connection led to me working on Joe Ink’s 4OUR which
their ideas, and had tools and vocabulary to do that. My modus
was presented at Scotiabank Dance Centre in October. I will be
operandi is discovery and learning, and then figuring out ways
going back to Montreal in 2016 to make a new work with a dancer
to apply what I have discovered. I was very keen, after many
from Montreal and from St. John’s. And I would leap at any chance
years in theatre, to apply that knowledge to dance. At first,
to work with director Keith Turnbull again, on a new opera.
choreographers weren't very open to the idea, but as time went by the European way came to Canada, and people became
AK: What do you make of the West Coast dance scene now that
more open. For me it's always important to help the choreog-
you have had a chance to see it?
rapher articulate their ideas, whether that's in movement or in words, and also to help them translate; my work has a lot to do
JL: I am really excited by the dance scene in Vancouver. Having
with translation; in theatre, I translate the director’s ideas to the
something like The Dance Centre makes all the difference. That's
actors in terms of movement, and to create a physicalization
what I found really problematic for the community in Toronto,
of the ideas. In dance, I am first of all helping choreographers
(being well versed in that aspect, having cofounded Centre 303 in
translate ideas from their unconscious and subconscious that
Montreal, which continues to serve a very important role in creat-
are expressed movement, into words, and bring them to a
ing community). That Vancouver has a centre is a key reason that
conscious level, in order to have a discussion. I also help the
dance is thriving there; it is really wonderful to see. Of course it's
choreographers convey ideas to the dancers in ways that the
much quieter in Victoria, but what I like about smaller communities
dancers can carry them out on an interpretive level. There are
is that with very few artists in any discipline, they tend to work with
many aspects of theatre craft that I feel I am bringing to dance.
each other, and I really enjoy that. I have encountered this in St.
My main objective as a dramaturge is to help the choreogra-
John's, where I have worked very often since the mid 1980s.
pher clarify and articulate their ideas and then transmit them to the performers so they can carry them out with power, clarity,
AK: Did you know the Vancouver community from before?
depth and efficiency. Having a great idea is one thing – communicating it effectively is another.
JL: I actually lived in Vancouver for six months in 1980, and danced with Paula Ross for three weeks and then was fired because "I
AK: Vancouver has developed a particular type of interdisciplin-
wasn't a dancer…” I met Karen Jamieson, Savannah Walling and
ary work in the performing arts over the years. Do you find that
Terry Hunter, and I came here fairly regularly. Later I performed at
there is a difference between the performers here, compared to
the Western Front and Dancing on the Edge, and then came back
Eastern Canada?
as a guest artist for Jennifer Mascall's last project as part of EDAM, which was performed at the Vancouver Art Gallery. Later still I had
JL: I have not been here long enough to be familiar with the in-
four seasons as movement director with Caravan Theatre Com-
terdis artists. There are companies like RUBBERBANDance that
pany, where I met the wonderful Jimmy Tait.
I worked with, who have performers from all over the place. Small communities like St. John’s have very few dancers, but
AK: Dance Central has been running a series of conversations with
Dance Central November/December 2015
13
Work. Not 'Practice'.
Critical Movements:
the choreographers were creating their movement, in several
A conversation with Jo Leslie
sections, but I came in as much as 6 months before opening, and worked very rigorously with the choreographer and the dancers to create the thread, the through-line, the scenario that would then become the show from these different sec-
the interdisciplinarity that happens there means that the dancers
tions of choreography. At other times, usually later in the
will often work with a theatre director and they all know each
process, I give feedback on certain aspects to further the
other, and they feed into each others’ work. But I can say that
interpretation… I also work as a director in dance, and I find
the dance training looks to be very good here; more progressive
that there is a lot of overlap between these roles, and when
than Toronto.
directing I become very hands-on with the dancers.
AK: Given the interdisciplinary nature of your work, do you find
AK: The last two issues of Dance Cenrtral included conver-
that Vancouver performers, many of whom trained at institu-
sations with dramaturgs Alex Lazarides Ferguson and Heidi
tions like SFU, which fostered a particular model of interdiscipli-
Taylor, who both have much experience working with ‘hybrid’
narity, work differently from their Eastern counterparts, and do
performers trained in theatre and dance, and with devised
you find that you approach interdisciplinary performers differ-
work, which creates specific conditions for the role of a dra-
ently than dancers and theatre artists?
maturge, especially when there is no script, and no choreography but just a space and a working hypothesis to start with.
JL: I cannot speak to that specifically as I do not know SFU
Is that part of your work as well, or are you more comfortable
grads. I have worked with such a range of people; from ac-
in more formal settings?
tors at a Shakespeare production at the NAC and Stratford to collectives and hiphop companies, and within any given
JL: I haven’t worked with companies that create devised work
company there is always such a mixture of ability. Within a
as you describe it, although I have worked with Louise Moyes
group of dancers you will always have some people who are
and her company Docudance in St. John’s. She is an ‘archival
comfortable using their voice, and others who are not. I find it is
storytelling dancer’, who also sings and incorporates video. I
so mixed, because performers are circulating all the time, and
have dramaturged and directed in that kind of interdisciplin-
the different creators they work with impart different tools and
ary context. In my performing career I worked with interdis
approaches to them. One thing I do find, particularly in dance,
artists like Michael Snow and Peter Chin, and very often with
is that there are high expectations put on dancers to do differ-
new music musicians in galleries, studios, and jazz festivals.
ent things which they often don’t have the skills to meet and the
Previous to that—at the dawn of time—, I was a collaborator
choreographers don’t necessarily have the tools to help them
in devised theatre – then called collective theatre—in Toronto,
meet those expectations. As a dramaturge, I create a bridge and
at Passe Muraille and Factory Lab. And of course I created a
I negotiate a meeting place. Performing is performing is per-
lot of work myself as an independent choreographer/dancer.
forming, whatever the medium. The performance MUST suit/
Much later I was hungry for knowledge of language and
serve the material, the company has to exist as one entity, there
directing skills, this led to the ‘formal’ phase of my trajec-
has to be cohesion, integrity, integration, and continuity in the
tory. I have been working in very formal settings, at Stratford,
style of the performance. I tend to all of these factors, regardless
and the NAC, and opera companies in Sweden, Toronto, and
of the performers’ backgrounds.
Wales, but that is something I am looking forward to changing by moving here; to return to creating work myself, and
AK: Do you tend to be part of the creation process, or do you
working with artists in different disciplines with differing ap-
come in once the material has been established, or both?
proaches; theatre which reflects society now.
JL: Anything and everything, depending on the size of the
AK: Do you have a sense of what kind of projects you might
project, the budget, and the vision of the choreographer. The
turn your hand to next?
process I was in with Joe Ink. was very similar to the process I was in with Roger Sinha’s project Sunya—which is at the The
JL: I will be creating some short pieces here, one with a de-
Cultch this week; I was not in there at the very beginning, when
signer and a dancer, and I will be working again with Montreal
14
Dance Central November/December 2015
"In theatre, I translate the director’s ideas to the actors in terms of movement, and to create a physicalization of the ideas. In dance, I am first of all helping choreographers translate ideas from their unconscious and subconscious that are expressed in movement, into words, and bring them to a conscious level, in order to have a discussion."
dancer Jacinte Giroux, who has disabilities due to a stroke she suffered ten years ago. I created a solo for her to get back into the professional milieu, which was a great experience, for her and also for the audience who saw someone with a disability dancing and moving like that, and I will be making a duet for her and Louise Moyes. I will be seeking out performers, visual artists and musicians to create work that can exist outside of a black box situation — museums, galleries, site-specific work, and easing more into directing, that is part of my personal mandate for being out here. I am artist in residence with Theater SKAM this season, which is a wonderful opportunity to connect to the community in Victoria. I am taking full advantage of it. I have already been working with a sound/movement artist Bisia Bellini. This month I am offering a movement class for directors. And will be doing some script dramaturgy and mentoring. I am also teaching at Vadarts and will direct Under Milk Wood there in December. All very exciting! AK: At the NAC, you would have been working with Peter Hinton, who is himself an accomplished dramaturge who works with opera and with choreographers like Noam Gagnon. Does your role change when you are working with a director who thinks dramaturgically? JL: I don’t think that really came into play on the shows we were doing. What I appreciated was Peter’s openness and availability to how I worked, and that with each different show that we did, we took a slightly different approach with the actors, because of the nature of the piece. I also appreciated the amount of time he gave me to work with the performers, which is not something every director is open to, but he saw the benefit of the actors embodying the themes and the story. I also did a lot of work with a director Micheline Chevrier who now runs a company in Montreal called Imago. Over a ten year period, we developed a way of working together within the tight three–week rehearsal framework that really inhibits the growth of theatre in this country, where the actors were in their body from the beginning, rather than me applying superficial corrections at the end. We worked every morning physically with the actors to embody the themes, characters and relationships, and the piece practically blocked itself, because the actors were able to fully explore the physicality of their characters. AK: Are there people in Vancouver that you would be interested in working with, in theatre or dance? JL: Of course, but I haven’t met all of them yet!
Dance Central November/December 20015
15
Work. Not 'Practice'.
Critical Movements: A conversation with Jo Leslie
AK: Do you think of theatre and dance as separate ecosystems, or do you see them as interrelated? JL: Well, they are interrelated in me; whatever discipline I am working in, I am employing the same tools, in terms of the connection of the performer to the material, and where I can go create a bridge between the creator and the performer, so for me it is the same work, although it can change depending on the circumstances, but I always try to find the best way to communicate that specific story with those specific performers and to get them hooked in as deeply and authentically as possible. Nothing can be generalized. I do find a difference in, and actually a lot of misunderstanding between, the disciplines, meaning what dancers often refer to as ‘acting’, is not acting. Choreographers tend to throw words around that have not been examined, the favourite being ‘ theatrical.’ In terms of the communities, Vancouver may be unique or perhaps ahead of the curve, because of the integration between dance and theatre, and how people are approaching work. The main thing is connecting with people, understanding how they think and speak. I worked with a comedian in Montreal, dramaturging her show on a Greyhound bus, and then I go to Stratford to do Taming of the Shrew. I thrive on the differences. AK: In Vancouver, especially with the demise of the Playhouse, there are few large-scale companies left, namely the Arts Club and Bard on the Beach, that have the financial and audience base to support the development of work at that scale. JL: I knew in coming out here that I was making that change professionally, and I am always looking for new challenges. I have been doing the big productions for quite a while and I feel I have achieved what I hoped to achieve, learned a tremendous amount, and now it’s time to do other things. Coaching actors is something I love and will continue. I want to get back to creating new work myself, and I want to see what new work is happening in these different areas, and how I can contribute. I have also been a full-time care-giver this year, so I haven't been able to see as much as I would have liked, but now there is more time. I will be coming over to Vancouver to see new work in the dance and interdisciplinary 16
Dance Central November/December 2015
"Choreo graphers now recognize how useful a dramaturge can be and how it can extend their palette and push their creativity, even though that can be painful."
o s w e w l a e e t n r d r , n h n e "
theatre scene and I am very keen to see what is going
trying out various models, in order to discover what it means
on there.
and how it relates to their work. What is your perspective?
AK: Vancouver dance companies, like their counterparts
JL: I don't have an academic background and I don't come with
in Europe, have developed a range of performance styles,
an academic approach to any of the work I do. It’s very prac-
combining modern, hiphop, ballet, ‘ethnic’ and many other
tical and hands-on, inasmuch as I am also extremely intui-
influences, along with interactive media, text and sited per-
tive, and I am fortunate in that I have thirty-five years of very
formance. How does this development of hybridity in dance
broad experience, so there is always something to draw on,
affect your work?
and I have worked with all the aspects of dramaturgy that you mentioned. Rehearsal direction is not dramaturgy, outside eye
JL: There are expectations on dancers to be able to do many
is not dramaturgy, dramaturgy is not direction. I am a stickler
different things; they are being constantly asked to sing, and
for terminology! I find that the main thing is the connection with
they have no singing training. When I came back to the dance
the person I am working with, if that doesn't sound too simplis-
world after years in theatre, I was surprised to see that the
tic, to find a meeting place where the imagination has free rein
training didn't seem to have changed very much consider-
within the context of a specific idea.
ing what you see on stage. That's where I come back to the question of why aren’t dancers being trained to do what they
AK: If anything it sounds clearer than what sometimes emerges
are expected to do? Often they have to seek out workshops
in the discussion. The increasing crossover between perform-
on their own in order to prepare themselves. They are often
ing arts and visual art has brought changes in terminology that
expected to speak, and again: Where do they gain the ability
are not always the easiest to integrate into what is now often
and the confidence? There are big holes in the training. For
referred to as ‘embodied’ practice. The discussions are interest-
me, my work is always to help the performer connect to the
ing, but working in the room it is more of an analytical than a
material and deliver that in a way that is truthful. I can’t say
creative tool.
that the range affects my work as a dramaturge, because I work in so many areas.
JL: Exactly. I have a lot of somatic work in my own background as well as performance which means I don’t have to talk about
AK: How does dramaturgy fit into the overall scope of your
‘embodiment’ I can get the performers there. In one case I was
work now?
dramaturging a show for World Stage in Toronto, in a remount, and I found myself doing somatic work to help the performers
JL: It has become more central, because of the recognition
connect to the style of movement the choreographer wanted.
of its value. As a movement director in theatre over the past
I was able to help them work with text too. ‘Embodiment’ is
twenty-five years I went through an educational process to
another of those overused words; if you are on stage you better
make directors aware of what could be done. Equally, cho-
be embodied, it's your job!
reographers now recognize how useful a dramaturge can be and how it can extend their palette and push their creativity,
AK: Will you get a chance to see Dance In Vancouver?
even though that can be painful. Dramaturgy is a natural outcome of all of my work and experience to date, it is wonderful
JL: It’s a busy time, but I am hoping to get over there for a few
to be back in the studio contributing to my first love. And I am
days. I look forward to seeing the work.
happy dance has become a more collaborative milieu. AK: Thank you! AK: In Vancouver ‘dance dramaturgy’ has become a common component of the creation process, even if the meaning of the term is still under negotiation; some dance artists use dramaturgs as specialized rehearsal directors, some focus on their story-editing role, some dramaturgs are being invited to work as co-devisers, and some are asked to keep track of the ‘theatrical’ dimension as the work develops; dance artists are Dance Central November/December 2015
17
You always have to improvise, especially in contemporary and in blending forms, which is what I am trying to do, there is no way to put one step after another and have it feel organic or authentic. It’s very important for me that my work feels authentic.
18
Dance Central November/December 2015
Shay Kuebler
Thinking Bodies: A conversation with continued from page 6
in a site specific area, I feel that the limitations expose so many more opportunities, and I want to use the potential of whatever is around me, whether it is a stage or a tiny hallway and find out how it changes your performance. AK: Do you create material mainly though improvisation? SK: Yes, especially when it comes to finding new forms of material. For the new piece, for example, I learned swing language, then we went to improvise with certain handholds and grips—not trying to do the movements perfectly, but to define actual structure of the work by using the technical form. You always have to improvise, especially in contemporary and in blending forms, which is what I am trying to do you, there is no way to put one step after another and have it feel organic or authentic. It’s very important for me that my work feels and is authentic. I want to have a certain kind of focus on stage, where the choreography and ensemble work has a certain recognizable patterning. AK: Do you use outside eyes? SK: Yes. The company is young, and we can’t have someone there full-time yet, but we bring people in to respond. It’s also important for me, a week or two before the performance, to be able to step inside and be a performer. Rehearsal director or outside eyes are extremely important, and you have find someone you can trust, which can be difficult because people sometimes give you information that is somewhat cushioned, and you need the information straight. AK: Do you work with the same person all the time? SK: It's a small group that shifts, but there are three or four people that I really trust. It’s important that people have seen your work long enough and know your vision, especially when I try new things. Sometimes it is hard to have them understand what I am doing with language but they still understand my intention in what I am trying to say with certain elements of the work, with patterns, group numbers, and solos.
Dance Central November/December 2015
19
Thinking Bodies: A conversation with
Shay Kuebler
working on, and Glory and then I go to New York and then Montreal, but I try not to get too far ahead of myself. The next piece, Telemetry, is exploring how quickly the body can transform. The inspiration is digging into jazz language further and working with Danny Nielsen, the tap dancer, to find new ways to utilize tap and house dance. I always have a notebook with me—it’s a habit I have picked up from standup comedians—to record random things that I observe, along with inspiration
‘
from film, clubs, and from observing people.
AK: You describe your work with lights as interactive lighting. How does that work?
AK: Do you spend a lot of time outside Vancouver now?
SK: We have done some experimentation in the past using
SK: Yes, especially this past year. I am outside Vancouver about
contact microphones, motion sensors and pressure sensors
half the year, but I am fortunate because I get to see different
to respond to the performers. In cinema, camera angles can
artists, and work with different people from all kinds of disci-
offer different lenses and perspectives, and create a different
plines, like high divers, parkour artists and others, and I try to
motor response in the audience, because of the proximity to
create a language that highlights everybody’s strength while
the camera. To some extent you can do this in performance. It’s
connecting them.
more difficult because the audience is in a fixed orientation, but I feel that lighting gives you the ability to isolate elements and
AK: How do you find the Vancouver community compares to
bring them into a different focus. With the interactivity we try
the other places you work in?
to feel like the performers, and what they are going through, is affecting the lighting directly, and that their presence is shifting
SK: It’s a great community, the smallest and youngest of the
the elements— sound, light, and the energy in the space.
three big Canadian scenes, and from that come certain great things, opportunities to explore, and more room than you
AK: Do you work with the same designers all the time?
would have if you were trying to do the same things in New York. Vancouver is a great place to foster talent. But wherever
SK: I have been working very closely with one artist for the
you go, the challenges are similar; there are more artists than
last few years, Craig Alfredson. We started working because I
jobs, and more projects than grants. I feel fortunate to be here,
wanted to gain some knowledge with Isadora software, during
in a city that supports younger artists, and with institutions that
research for Karoshi in 2011. Craig was really knowledgeable
support research and pure creation.
with the format, jumped on board for the first work in progress performances, and was so excited about the potential of what
AK: Are you looking forward to Dance In Vancouver?
we were trying to do; for example, we used contact mics in the Taiko drums to move the lighting around the space. We also
SK: Oh, yes. It’s a great event, especially for young talent. Dance
had a booth where I was smashing plates that responded to the
In Vancouver was me my first opportunity to present my own
microphones. This wasn’t gimmickry; I really wanted the drum-
work, to have a residency and a showcase. It’s one of the few
mer to represent a historical form, and when he hit the drums I
places where you get to have a lot of interaction, formal and
wanted to have that action snap us from one reality to another
informal.
and back. We used the lighting as a way to alter the space and the environment the performers were in.
AK: Thank you!
AK: You have a lot on your plate at the moment. What inspires you most at the moment? SK: I come back to Vancouver and I have two pieces I am 20
Dance Central November/December 2015
Dance Central September 2004
3
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November/December 2015