FROM THE EXTERIOR TO THE INTERIOR

In conversation with Architect / Interior Designer, Marco Emilio di Mario

Marco Emilio di Mario: qualified as an Architect (trained at the Mack) now works as an Interior Designer and teaches at the Glasgow School of Art's School of Interior Design.

Marco has an in-depth level of work experience for someone of his age, spanning three different countries: Scotland (Glasgow), England (London) and Italy (Rome and Milan). Within the Creative Allies context of MACMAG 48, Marco has worked within various interlinked sectors including Architecture, Interior Design, Theatre Set Design and marketing cosmetics. He has also worked in a freelance capacity for private clients.

MACMAG: Hi Marco, could you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Marco Emilio di Mario): I am Italian-Scottish and grew up in Glasgow. My family are all from Rome and I studied at GSA for five years. I did my Part 1, worked in practice for a couple of years and then came back to GSA to do Part 2. After graduating, I moved into a variety of different things and ended up focusing on Interior Design as my main career path, and that's what I have been doing for the last 10 or 11 years. I returned to GSA four months ago to undertake a position as a tutor.

MM: Could you tell us about your process of transitioning from one role to another?

MEM: It was quite natural. A lot of the time it was purely circumstantial that I ended up working on projects in those fields. I think that modelling part time for quite a number of years, whilst studying, ended up being quite influential in the path that I took. It really helped me to develop an interest in fashion, in the industry and that culture. Of course, one of the main places where all of that happens is Milan, and that is where I ended up moving to and then getting into Interior Design.

In terms of the freelance work, whether that has been theatre set design or marketing for cosmetic companies, that was also quite natural because the education I received at GSA taught me to be very versatile, and taught me a wide range of skills, which I was able to then apply in various contexts. With the type of work that I was doing at The Mackintosh School of Architecture for my fourth and fifth year projects, there was a big focus on imagery and telling the story of your projects. With that you become very proficient in programmes like Photoshop, InDesign and Illustrator. These can then be used and applied to other sectors, which is how I ended up doing some work with Cult Beauty many years ago, working with their marketing team to prepare images for the relaunch of their website.

MM: What influence, if any, did studying Architecture have on your career? In particular at GSA?

MEM: I would say that GSA, as a school, prepares you for that kind of versatility. I remember thinking that at the time. Sometimes the review formats, that GSA is quite well known for, could be really brutal, but looking back now, it really made me realise that it was preparing me for going out into the real world. I think whenever you are educated in that way and when there is a big focus on you presenting your work and standing there as people either praise it or tear it to shreds makes you tough. It makes you prepared to go out there and deal with different types of situations. I think that is one of the most valuable things that I learned at the Mack because it allows you to sell yourself; not just in architecture, but in various other related fields.

MM: You mentioned working in Italy. What were the differences in work culture in the different countries you’ve worked in?

MEM: The working culture in Italy is very different, in some ways for the better, in many ways, its worse. I think that what has been really interesting for me is to really experience the “made in Italy” culture. We collaborate with so many artisans and smaller skill manufacturers and carpenters that still work with their hands, and have been working in that way for hundreds of years. Whereas, in countries like the UK, Ireland, Scotland, and the US because of the economic changes that have taken place in these countries over the last 50 years many of these skills have died out.

MM: So, you are saying there was more focus on traditional skills over production linestradition versus industry?

MEM: Exactly, I think that there is a sort of mass production of many components now in interior design and architecture as well. It is quite prevalent in northern European countries and in the US. I feel as though in Italy it is something that we have managed to keep at bay, and we do focus on the traditional craftsman artisan way of working. I would argue that it leads to a much stronger collaborative team. I think it is something that is still very much in demand from clients, hence why we are commissioned to work all over the world.

MM: Having been to Italy a few times, it is something that you feel within the culture itself. The idea of things being done a certain way and respecting that tradition. Would you say that you have found that Italy has more of a collaborative mindset than you have seen in the UK?

MEM: Not necessarily a more collaborative mindset but I think it is a more collaborative process. In my experience working with English clients, people are very much in their roles. They are not willing to step out of that role, whereas I think in Italy because of the way in which we develop a project, we require the collaboration and input from the carpenters, the artisans, the lighting designer, or even the 80 year old furniture restorer. We recognise their value, and that is why it becomes a team effort. We are obviously in charge of the concept, but we need these skilled workers and artisans to help realise our concept for us. I think that in the UK there is maybe less crossover and the rules are very defined. I would argue people are maybe a bit afraid to step outside of that.

MM: Was it difficult to transition back to working in the UK?

MEM: Well it has been four months, so it has been fairly recent. Obviously I am in Glasgow and in a teaching capacity for the moment. Myself and my business partner launched our own studio last year, called House of Belvedere. We have a couple of projects in London, but again we are following that same format. We are using an Italian millworker, we are sourcing a lot of our pieces in Italy and it is really about us bringing that “made in Italy” brand to other parts of the world.

In terms of the transition, it has been fine. I have been really enjoying working here again over the last couple of months. One thing I will say about Northern Europe, in a working context, is the efficiency. It is fantastic compared to other southern European countries, the efficiency is really great here. I feel as though there is a lack of excess bureaucracy here, which in Italy can sometimes hinder projects and really slows things down, and so that has been a quite enjoyable aspect of working here again. Things just seem to be done a lot more quickly.

MM: How would you say your range of experiences in modelling and designing have influenced you as a designer, as a teacher or even as a person?

MEM: I think that my design style is quite eclectic, which might be a reflection of having had quite an eclectic career over the last 10 or 11 years. It has given me a stamina and an ability to work with clients and sites all over the world and to deal with difficult situations because I have moved around and learned a lot over the last decade. It has influenced me, making me quite a strong character, and I think a lot of people that are close to me would describe me like that as well. I am not the kind of person that gives up or throws the towel in.

MM: Would you say it is also a self-confidence thing as well, that you know you can do it because of your experience?

MEM: Yes, but again I would have to thank GSA for having taught me about selling yourself and really standing up for your design and for the work that you are putting up on the wall. Something that I have been really urging my Master of Interior Design students to do is to really get involved in the review process, not to just sit there staring at the floor when their colleagues are presenting their work because the studios are a safe space. You know you are not going to get fired from your degree or find yourself in a really difficult situation, so I think in that sense I really urge all of them to use that process, and to do so in this space as it is a really great opportunity to hone these skills, to become a good communicator and to become good at selling your concept, your brand and your design.

MM: Was it ever your plan to be working in education, in particular in interior design?

MEM: I was keen to pursue the path of interior design because I feel as though some of the creativity from architecture is becoming lost. Architects now have got so many different stipulations that they have to follow that there is less creative control over a project. Some of those restrictions do exist in Interior Design but I do not feel as though it is to as great an extent. I feel as though you have got much more creative freedom working in the world of Interior Design as opposed to Architecture.

I ended up teaching in Interior Design rather than in an Architecture school because I very much identify as being an Interior Designer now, rather than being an architect. Whilst I did my five years of architecture at GSA, it has not been my job title over the last number of years, so this is very much the profession I identify with. I would not ever rule out working in an architecture school because I think that there is a lot of crossover. One thing that I would be keen to see would be more collaboration between Interior Design and Architecture students in various schools. I know there has been some collaboration at GSA in the past.

MM: How does it feel coming back to GSA after 11 years?

MEM: It has been very different, the building that we are sitting in now did not exist. Obviously, the fire in the Mackintosh building was major. In subsequent visits after the fire, I did not ever come anywhere near Garnethill because I could not bear to even walk past it. On my first day here in a tutoring capacity, I was being given a tour around the Reid Building. Having avoided seeing the kind of charred, blackened scaffolding covered remains I was suddenly been led through the building, and having it right in my face.

In some respects I think it feels a bit like a homecoming. I started at GSA when I was only 17 years old, so I did a lot of my growing up in this school. It has been a really positive experience so far.

I have been really enjoying it.

MM: Our edition is titled “Creative Allies”, in your opinion, do you think architecture is becoming more interdisciplinary?

MEM: That is quite a tough one to answer. In certain situations, I would say no - in others I would say yes. That is purely based on my career experience so far. Within a lot of our projects, especially the ones that we undertook abroad, we would have a local architect in place that would oversee the site when we could not be there, and some of these local architects would also have their own design practices with their own concepts, proposals and their own visions. In that sense I would say yes, it is becoming more interdisciplinary, the architects that I have been in contact with and worked with over the years have got this kind of vision of their own studio I suppose, but then also have the project management side of things that they would do on our behalf. So, in that context I would say yes.

MM: Then would you say that Interior Design is becoming more interdisciplinary in comparison?

MEM: I would say that Interior Design has become more interdisciplinary compared to architecture, and the reason that I am saying that is because I think within Interior Design you have now got a whole host of different genres. I am aware that obviously certain architects will also design certain typologies of buildings but I think Interior Design is being pushed more into embracing technology, social media, and virtual reality in a way that architecture is not. Because of that, we need to be more on our toes in order to satisfy. This is purely my experience, but I think that clients of architecture would not really expect to put on a VR headset and go for a tour around their building, I may be wrong about that. Whereas, increasingly with Interior Design clients they want to put on a VR headset and walk around what is going to be their brand's boutique, hotel, restaurant or home.

MM: Would you say the new technologies such as VR and renderings, that are getting better, are pushing people to be more creative? Do you think technology is a tool towards more creative practice?

MEM: I would argue that it is actually going to hinder creativity because I think the expectation from clients now is moving more and more towards a photographic type render. That is what they expect. Designers might be less daring, because it could be more important to have the photographic render which the client expects, as opposed to a client seeing a rendering and going: “what on earth is that?”

One thing that I really advocate, and I am a bit of an old soul and a bit old fashioned, but I really advocate the use of more traditional methods. With any projects that I am doing we still work a lot of the time using watercolours, which I think is a really important tool. I think that with watercolour you are not going to have the realism necessarily of a render, but you are going to have the atmosphere and soul which you might not necessarily have otherwise. I also believe that it gives you more creative license when looking at the design of a space or of a building for that matter as well.

MM: What advice would you give to students that are doing architecture or another course that doesn’t necessarily fulfil enough of their creative purpose in practice?

MEM: Especially in the last couple of years of my education, and I think I speak for everybody when I say at times, as we all do, you can feel a bit disillusioned from a process. I think with architecture education in particular, it is a long process and a lot of the time you can really doubt whether or not you are doing the right thing. Ultimately my advice to my younger self and to anybody that is at that point in their education, is to persevere and to really embrace the aspects of the education at the Glasgow School of Art. Things like the studio culture, the review culture as well, they are so important because they teach you life skills that are invaluable whenever you are out there working in practice and because it is a creative degree, I think you are able to use those skills and apply them in a whole host of different situations Even if you do not graduate and go into a studio, because a lot of people including myself, do not go down that path, you can still end up with some really interesting experiences that you might not have imagined having at the start of your study.

MM: As you have experienced the school from both a student and staff perspective, do you think that there is enough exchange or alliances being formed within GSA as an art school and in particular, between the art and the architecture students?

MEM: It is one thing that I would like to see more of, especially across the different schools. The biggest difference that I have noticed in the School of Design is that it is really fantastic for these cross collaborations. I have only been here for four months and I have already seen the School of Design organise workshops with people in practice, with developers that are undertaking major projects in Central Glasgow. So many of the electives and workshops are attended by not only interior design students, but students from fashion, textiles and silversmithing.

@houseofbelvedere / www.houseofbelvedere.com

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Glasgow offers a rich political, economic, historical, cultural and environmental framework from which to examine its International and metropolitan relationships as well as the everyday life of the city.

Implicit in the Design Thesis lies the evidencing of its impact on the urban environment. The form it takes, the spaces it creates and the character it assumes are to be critically informed by the geographic, topographic and climatic situations as well as the prevailing cultural, political, economic and social circumstances previously noted. Through a city investigation task at the start of the academic year, the students sifted through these complexities in the search and the opening up of architecturally related opportunities within the fabric of Glasgow.

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