NASHER PRIZE DIALOGUES
PERFORMANCE AS SCULPTURE Reykjavik Art Museum, Iceland
Featuring artists Ragnar Kjartansson and Theaster Gates, with Markús Þór Andrésson, curator of Reykjavik Art Museum, moderating.
Artists Ragnar Kjartansson and Theaster Gates discuss the role that performance plays in their respective practices in a Nasher Prize Dialogues talk in Reykjavik, Iceland. Markús Þór Andrésson: So, Theaster Gates, born in Chicago,
Ragnar Kjartansson: Yeah, I think I more wanted to do painting
studied urban planning before turning to pottery and developing
because I just liked the idea of painting. Somehow, it was more
his artistic career. He merges this background in everything he
like I liked the idea of being an artist, just the mood of it. And
does today, creating objects and installations of found material
that was what drew me in, and also just the idea of the smell
and transforming the raw material of urban neighborhoods into
of paint and the material of paint. And also, yeah, kind of how
active and relevant cultural hubs within the community.
hopeless it was.
Ragnar Kjartansson was born here in Reykjavik, where he
MA: How so?
studied art and household management. Kjartansson draws on the entire “act of art” in his performative practice. The history of
RK: I really felt like painting was a hopeless thing. After, you
film, music, theater, visual culture, and literature find their way
know, after Modernism.
into his video installations, durational performances, drawing, and painting. So, welcome to “Painting and Pottery”!
TG: Was painting hopeless or were you hopeless?
A wonderful evening on these old beautiful crafts. Humble acts,
RK: Well yeah, I think I was just hopeless … You know, I was
but yet, rich artistic mediums. But I thought it would be great to
just young. But that actually gave me this idea to kind of, like,
start with this. Where have we come from painting and pottery
pretend to paint. Then I felt free. Then I just pretended to be this
in your cases? Theaster, it would be lovely to hear, you started in
painter and I just continued to pretend to be an artist. I also think
this craftsmanship, you still work with it and think a lot about the
I don’t come from material, really. I kind of come from pretense.
day. But in this period, since you started working with this simple material, to what you are doing now, these huge megalomaniac
TG: Yeah. No, that’s great. The other day some people were
projects, which are such a vast way from this origin, is pottery
at my studio videotaping me. And they were like, “Well, we
still relevant? How do the two connect? And was this something
need you to make a pot. Because nobody really believes you
you saw already, when you started making pots, that this was a
know how to make a pot, you just talk about making pots all the
material you could expand into this new domain?
time.” So these people came to my studio and they had some big cameras. It was like, lighting and there was like, 17 of them
Theaster Gates: In some ways. Whatever I’m making today …
and they had these huge cameras. And I was wedging [the clay]
I don’t know what I’m making today. But whatever it’s evolved
and they were saying things in these little like, [quietly mumbles]
into, it feels like there was something in the philosophy of “craft”
“Yeah, you gotta come over there so we can…[trails off] Yeah,
that got me here. So in a way, when you spend a long time with
we gotta, it’s good…[trails off] Yeah, go wide then come in
a material, you either fall in love with the material, or you fall in
closer. Yeah, that’s right, stay there.” And I was wedging. And
love with what the material teaches you. I think I fell in love with
they were like, “Uh, yeah, Theaster, stay there! [hushed] Okay,
what clay was teaching me. So I don’t mind saying I’m a potter.
now if you could just elevate…[trails off] He’s just like, wedging
I like it. In a way, because I feel like all the things that happened
…” And then somebody said, “That looks good.” And then I
as a result of clay, they feel so rich and so beautiful.
kind of put a little extra into it! [laughter]
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