Rationale

Four years ago, Rationale came into view and with his first single “Fast Lane,” it seemed like that’s exactly how his career was going to go. However, after releasing two EPs, his debut album, and selling out his own headline tour as well as supporting some of the biggest British acts of the moment, Rationale somewhat disappeared. And maybe that was a little bit intentional.

Now he’s returned with his new EP High Hopes and while it might be interpreted as a new direction for the singer-songwriter-producer, the results of the shimmery and bright production is just another facet of the multi-dimensional artist that he just hasn’t shown the world yet.

THE RAD was the first outlet to interview him back in 2014 and four years is a long time to let people grow but also remain the same. On a Sunday back in October, before the release of High Hopes, Rationale hopped on the phone to talk about his creative process but also to simply catch up with an old friend.

Do you normally get depressed on Sundays because the week’s about to start?

I think I’m just depressed most of the time [laughs]. There are waves of happiness — my job is based on things that come into my head and there’s no way of telling it’s going well until you’re miserable. So everything’s great! I’m super, super fun to talk to right now [laughs].

Ok great, so nothing’s changed since I last talked to you.

Hey! Hey!

We haven’t talked in a couple years and right off the bat it’s basically, “I’m really depressed. Things are going terribly.”

This is who I am! This is what it is! No, no. I’m alright actually. How are you?

Well, I’m….you know.

Ha! Should we put off the interview and just talk about how depressed we both are?

I mean we could do that. I assumed we’d have two separate conversations. The one where I ask you the questions I’m supposed to and you answer the way you’re supposed to, and then the real talk conversation about how we’re really doing because it has been awhile since we’ve spoken.

One thing that is interesting though is that you sound more sure of yourself now than back in the day [when we first met]. You sound super confident. Nowadays when people are doing well in life they’ve got this — not pompous but you’re not nervous in the slightest. I love people; I love people’s personalities. Because I spend time on my own I’m probably more impressed than I should be.

Well I’m glad I sound like I’m doing something right.

I also love those personalities that come off extremely confident but are secretly crying themselves to sleep at night.

Yup, that’s me.

[laughs] STOP IT! That’s not good, that’s like therapy. Which, I do that by the way [go to therapy].

You’re always a dangerous one to talk to.

Because we end up talking about feelings?

No! Because...well you just did it. You told me I sounded super confident compared to the first time we first spoke and I was thinking about how the first time we spoke was in this type of situation where we had never met [but talked on the phone]. And that was like...four years ago?

Yeah!

Which is a….really long time when you think about it.

Well I guess it depends how you’re quantifying it, right? Are we talking about album cycles or…

I think that’s just a long time to know someone...as an adult?

Yeah, that’s true.

Four years when you’re in school is something that just happens. You end up knowing people for decades because of your environment. But as an adult, despite our location, we find a way to come back to each other because of our group of friends and the industry we’re in. We could’ve never spoken again.

But that is also quite indicative to who I am, in terms of never talking to people again but now I’m trying to talk to them at some point in time. I’ve become quite accepting of my ways and I’ll probably end up very lonely.

Why do you think you do that?

I think I’ve learnt now that I’m so obsessive with what it is that I do that I become quite involved in it and I also become quite reclusive in that sense. But I think [not talking to people] is something I am addressing in life because I’ve realized — starting a conversation and never finishing it but knowing throughout life that conversation was really, really good. Or starting a movie that was really, really great and the climax was really, really got good but now I’m just going to go to the loo for a minute but never finish the movie but knowing for a fact you couldn’t just press play on that again. My excuse has always been that I have to go off and be creative but...I probably just feel too much. I get too involved with people’s personalities. I almost [stop talking to people] so I don’t end up disappointed. I’d almost rather take a snapshot of where I was in that time then go back to the studio. The funny thing about that is in a four year period, for example with you, at my age, the amount of special people in my life and the people I really care about are probably dwindling. When you’re older you start to realize what real friendship is and what love is and that’s an interesting place to be.

To answer your question about why I do that or why I did that with relationships with people. I don’t know. I’ve always been obsessive with what I want to get out of music. It’s actually quite unhealthy.

When you’re older you start to realize what real friendship is and what love is and that’s an interesting place to be.

It is!

I was speaking to Dan [Smith of Bastille] about it the other day — about the new single and music in general. I’ve watched him over the last four years dealing with his stardom and his success and chasing the next thing after you’ve just done an arena tour. But my complex is a bit different. What comes next after you’ve done well but didn’t smash the back wall like everyone wanted you to? I think I’m in a really great place. I just wanted to write new music and stop singing the same songs over and over.

What has the writing process been like after going on tour and having your debut album?

The writing process this time around has been different because I’m not the new kid on the block anymore. So that made my writing process very, very difficult because it’s a lonely business when you’re pressing a bunch of tiny buttons trying to get the right emotion out of a song. I remember about two months into it I was like, “I’m not doing so great, this isn’t fun right now.” That’s when I knew I had to change my routine because the routine from the last record wouldn’t work. I couldn’t sit there in a room by myself and create stuff. So I started reaching out to my friends and realized, oh shit. I haven’t been around for two years [laughs].

You need to live life to make music.

Yeah, dude! It’s such an obvious thing. Not that I wasn’t having experiences on tour.

That’s not real life though.

It isn’t. I started thinking to myself, I’d really like have a year off and not release music. Unfortunately, the machine doesn’t work like that nowadays, at least at the place I was at in my career. I kept writing but started writing in a way that I was happy with what I was doing but not obsessive and do 12 hour days. That’s bullshit. I got really mad into fitness to make me think about something else and make myself feel good. I started a podcast because I realized me and my friends have amazing conversations and because I felt like I wanted to express myself differently and see how the people who followed me felt about that. And through all that I realized, it’s not bad to work with other people. It’s not bad to reach out.

I say this generally, if you’re in this phase in your career — everyone wants a hit, right? No matter what you say, whichever act you are, everyone wants that massive, gargantuan hit on their own merits and it’s not contrived. Labels want to put you with every person who has a hit in the last five minutes and try to see if something happens but I had been through that road before. I didn’t want to do it again. I wanted to reach out to people that I want to work with and because I’ve asked for that relationship to happen. That’s what I set out to do with this EP. I just wanted to have to some fun and not worry about what it was supposed to do. I had to get through that by rediscovering living. To be honest, if I’m really honest, I’m still learning. I’m still getting those experiences up and trying to write more based on life rather than fictional accounts.

Are you still trying to dissect people and get music that way?

Yeaaaah. That’s still kinda my thing.

That’s why you’re dangerous to talk to! I always feel like I have to be careful of what I say or I’m going to end up as a song.

I think I’ll always do that, to be fair. When I first came out I was pretty much smashing the new music playlists and landing in the top spots. It’s not like that anymore. First off, that’s the game now. Streaming is the game. Music has changed. Some artists can do a pop tune one day and a reggae tune another day and it’s basically chasing playlist love. In the four years alone since I last released music...it’s so hard to sift through and find quality like Future Islands or early Tame Impala. It almost feels like that doesn’t exist anymore or it doesn’t have a loud enough voice anymore.

It’s definitely like that. Since I last spoke to you, it’s weird for me now doing these interviews and talking directly to artists and being friends with artists because now I’m on the label side. It’s so interesting how my brain has changed.

What’s your deal now?

I was just in media for so long and this election just killed my brain and I couldn’t do it anymore. So I transitioned into music fully and now do marketing.

That’s insane! I feel like you’re a different person now.

It’s insane how my brain has changed. Hearing you talk about playlisting — it really sucks that a lot of new artists are D.O.A. now. If you get 10,000 in your first week, I don’t know what to do with that. And it sucks!

Yeah! Yeah! Because we’re such a numbers driven society now, I know that culture messes with creativity and how people view music. Because what makes people excited about music isn’t numbers. The simple, everyday person doesn’t give a shit about how many followers you have on some app or what playlists you’re on. If that song is special and makes someone feel a certain way, that’s the wave. Music will always be about what is good, what is great, what is different. Music’s just got to be honest. That’s all it is.

PHOTOGRAPHY FLORE DIAMANT WORDS APRIL SALUD