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TAKEN FROM ISSUE 50 OCT-NOV 2013
Interview with Leee John PROMO EDITION
LEEE JOHN talks to Fitzroy
From the heart of north London Leee John had ambitions from early on to make it as a performer. Living a dual life as a clubbing teenager and a session vocalist became a way of natural life until he found his own distinctive falsetto voice as the front man of Imagination. He's travelled around the world, had his own TV show, acted in a famous Si Fi series and can still boogie like he used to at Crackers in Wardour Street W1. Talking about Music & Lights..Leee John bares all.
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You were born in 1957 in Hackney, East London, so how was life up until you hit the clubs as a teenager? My parents came from St Lucia and my mother used to do floor shows there where they had dances and my father was an engineer so there was always music and parties in the house. They moved to Highbury, North London and later we were one of the first black families to move to Finsbury Park until I moved to the States in 1968. London in the early 60's evokes memories of Bluebeat, Rocksteady and Ska which I soaked up like a sponge. I sang and was in the school orchestra playing the violin and the recorder and then my parents split. I went to America and joined the glee club and became involved in the choirs. I got my first record deal aged thirteen with Worldwide Records in New York who were like a cartel that had a performing arts side for young kids. This was when the musical Hair and the Jackson 5 were big in the late 1960's so any kids that had spunk would shine. Although I was very shy when it came to performing I'd turn into another person. My period in the USA was very formative as at the time I arrived Martin Luther King and Robert F Kennedy had been assassinated as well as one of the Black Panthers. My mother hadn't even realised I'd gone to America as my father took me illegally out of the country and I remember sending postcards to my mum informing her of seeing so many coloured people, which was the terminology used then. Motown was huge with Shorty Long Here Comes The Judge, Love Child by The Supremes and Psychedelic Shack by The Temptations, being tunes I remember hearing. The Jackson 5 had already done I Want You Back and were now singing ABC and The Love You Save with me and my cousins doing all the moves. I was heavily influenced by Sly & The Family Stone and I listened to Laura Lee, The Persuaders, Denise Lascelle and the acts on Hot Wax Records. Soul Train was on every Saturday morning so I was absorbing all of this. Isaac Hayes won an academy, Ali was fighting Joe Frasier and this was a great time for black people in America around 1970-72.
When I came back to live with my mother it was a completely different scene. My cousin Stephanie was really into reggae and took me to blues parties in Turnpike Lane north London which was a completely different world. Whilst in America I was listening to Lady In Satin by Billie Holliday because at the time when Lady Sings The Blues with Diana Ross came out I couldn't find the soundtrack but discovered Billie instead by default. I loved Eddie Kendrick and bought My People Hold On album with Girl You Need A Change Of Mind and I emulated him because Eddie had such a good tone. Once I was back in London I was buying imports from Contempo Records in Hanway Street and One Stop. I was still singing whilst at school aged fourteen to fifteen and with my friend Russell we went to loads of places including Eddie Grant’s studio in Stoke Newington. Eddie advised me I had something that wasn't quite right but to keep working at it. Around that time I met Roy Fisher who worked at EMI who had Snazz Records around 1974 and we did a track as Russ and Lee with Gonzalez as the backing band and some female vocalist called Thunder Thighs who sang on Lou Reed’s Walk On The Wild side. We started going to Tottenham Royal and bunked off school to go to Crackers with George Power Friday lunchtimes. Dancers of the time were Trevor Shakes, Bassey and Dez Parkes. I moved with members from Light Of The World and Nat Augustine whose parents were also from St Lucia. We went to a community drama group called the Huenora Strolling Players which Victor Romero Evans was part of too. Myself, Victor Romeo and Nat Augustine formed a group called The Detonators and then I left. This was just before disco and there was a lot of session work around which became a way of earning for me way before Imagination. I was trying to discover myself and it was an amazing time as the club circuit and the record industry knew me. I was always sending in demos and sometimes doing sessions for Elvis Costello. I was managed by Great Count Music whom the producer Trevor Horn worked for and it was his song called Got To Be Good that got me the deal with Red Bus and Morgan Khan liked it. Got To Be Good had a huge production and this was meant to be the first single for Imagination.
You mentioned upon your return to the UK going to a few clubs and mentioning characters like Trevor Shakes and Dez Parkes. Hearing this during that early period always makes me wish I was there with all the fashion and music and how integral the dancing was. Kenny Wellington also explained this from his budding musician experience but as an aspiring singer how was it for you?
I had a lot of things going on as I was doing theatre on a Thursday and the George Canning pub in Brixton where the Cool Notes played. Friday lunchtime we'd go to Crackers and Saturday night the Birds Nest, who for me had one of the best nights in Waterloo, Paddington and West Hampstead. With your fifty pence ticket admission we’d be all dressed up although I’m not sure how we were able to afford to. There would be convoys of cars and this was all a street thing as there were
no mobiles. Fashion wise we'd wear green or purple trousers, when Kung Fu came in we exaggerated that fashion and the Gatsby era with Zoot suits, plastic sandals and sailor canvas shoes from Laurence Corner for 99p just to dance in. A lot of the clubs were on Sundays as the venues didn't like to have too many blacks in town so the clubs we went to before we hit London’s west end were in north London; Bumbles, Tottenham Royal and Royalty in Southgate. We'd walk in the club dancing, even passing your coat to the cloakroom attendant was a dance move lol. We’d be hearing Crystal Glass-Crystal World or Donald Byrd and the Blackbyrds. We were so free and it was fun, even describing it as I speak I'm recalling how colourful and vibrant it was and also the girls who could really dance. There were friendly dance offs and I remember Fitzroy Gaines who was good and I called the mechanic because of how he danced. Everyone had their own moves because we were all characters. The music was always on import like £15 for an album, then the west end wised up when George Power was on the pulse. He had a mixture of black, white, Turkish and Greek kids travelling via word of mouth and again, remember we had no mobiles back then. Clubs like Gilly’s and Billy that changed to Gossip and upstairs at Ronnie Scotts were running these kind of nights. Then you get your Chris Hills and the all dayers thrown in and there was this thriving club scene. When people discovered Greg Edwards with his bathroom call on the radio which hadn't been done before, and then he's djing at the Lyceum, the whole country’s music spectrum changed. Programmers were following Greg’s music formula, which they didn't want to do prior because black became the in thing. Some of us became artists in how we adored the Americans but in our own light because we had the Caribbean, reggae, calypso culture. Groups like Hi Tension, Light Of The World, Midnight Express which Errol Kennedy came from and TFB which Kenny Wellington was part of. This whole north east with a bit of south London collective started to grow, Junior was part of that and David Grant’s cousin (who was always by the till) Joe Gibbs had a shop and he later managed Light Of The World...bloody hell bringing back some memories. I remember we won two dance competitions, one at Tottenham Royal where they gave us 20 albums and the other one was when Philadelphia International was doing a dance competition. That’s the one I had with Dez that he mentioned in his interview 5 years ago. It was at Crackers and at the time Dez Parkes and Trevor Shakes were known by everyone as the kings on the dance floor. I also was just doing my thing and the crowd got into it. When the crowd decided and chose us as the winners we got all the albums. I think the crowd were trying to get different dancers to win and be acknowledged because Dez and Trevor always got everything! We enjoyed winding them up and Dez always reminds me of that when we chat. It was a great time and everybody took pride in how they dressed whether they were a soul or reggae head. Everyone seemed to enjoy it when the parties were mixed with reggae and soul. What was important for me was I’d always look at the album sleeves and read who played on it.
You had a writing partnership with Ashley Ingram just before Imagination and were in a group called Fizz? Oh god yeah we used to do Ronnie Scotts. These were nice guys from Golder’s Green but they couldn't play the funk. I brought Ashley in and he was playing Earl Klugh and George Benson riffs and played bass and guitar. We managed to get a review in Blues and Soul but that’s the beginning and end of it to be honest. Once the British band emerged you could see we had our own thing but the industry wouldn't support us so we had to hit them bam in the face to get their attention. Yeah Morgan said that he had to make an impact with you guys like an American group would, which explains what happened when you appeared on Top Of The Pops. I was prepared to go out there and stroke the piano but Morgan insisted on me showing more leg. I thought oh my god what’s my mum gonna say but I went through with it. I didn't anticipate the impact that performance would have but what it did was open the doors for British acts to be taken seriously. Every label was now signing acts like us and taking the risk after Body Talk. Simon Edward Bell signed Wham as a white Imagination concept. George Michael took over from me in Fizz when I left them singing the songs that I wrote. How did you meet with Errol? I took the track Got To Be Good to Red Bus which was sent to America to be a multitrack and it got lost. When I approached Morgan he wanted to know who’d be in the group or was it gonna be just me as a solo artist; I wasn't sure and was writing with Ashley. Delroy Murray from Total Contrast was around me at the time and he could have been in Imagination but he was more in tune with what he wanted musically than I was. I was asked to replace Patrick Booth in the group Midnight Express and that’s where I met Errol. I decided to have a trio like The Police then get a session musician in because at the time there was always ten people in a group and no one got paid. I got introduced to Tony Swainn who encouraged me to write what was Body Talk in its infancy. I wrote this on my mum’s kitchen table and between the cassette player and my mum’s clock radio I dubbed the music back with an Akai 2 inch equipment to make sure it was right before I took it into the studio with Morgan. Between Ashley, who hadn't recorded before but was very talented and multi instrumental and myself, we learned from each other as an interchangeable team. Errol came in a few months after the deal was signed then Body Talk was being circulated on a white label. Everyone thought we were American and with the help of Steve Walsh the record got exposure. Robbie Vincent, Froggy and various others were instrumental in pushing it and it was one of the slowest tempo records of that year but everyone was into it. Our first PA was at Watford Baileys behind Kelly Marie, which was me and Ashley without Errol. We had reviews in Blues & Soul and Black Echoes and Errol came on board then. We got to number 44 and then someone dropped out of Top Of The Pops. That drop out changed our lives because that’s how we got the call to do that infamous Body Talk performance and not many knew that, but that’s why Morgan said we gotta work the www.thesoulsurvivors.co.uk
stage. The next day the papers and the radio were talking about the performance, which to me was like George Clinton’s P Funk ethos being raunchy even though the song was slow. Sometimes the dress image took away from what we did musically because now we had an image to live up to. Tony Swainn, an incredible and underrated producer, listened intently and gave us a good sound. We had so many firsts, like the amount of shows we were on as a black group at the time being on programmes like Ebony and Lenny Henry. We performed for royalty and to my knowledge before any other black group unless you’re talking about Shirley Bassey. Princess Diana asked us what we were wearing as her friends were asking but we were told to tone it down. I was still very close to the club scene and at the time we were going to Monkberry’s and getting tapes to keep up with what was happening and ended up having a studio in my house. I wanted to change the groups dynamics and worked with D Vas since 1986. Between him and Adam Penzay they learnt the craft of my studio stuff with the new synths and drum machines and we worked on it when I came back. Technology was taking over and we no longer needed drummers and other players. What’s this with the Dr Who acting gig? Did you ever see it? (No) It was when Peter Davidson, the youngest Dr Who of the time, was in it and I played a space pirate. My review in the papers said Leee John goes from one costume to the next or does all he really have to do is step into Dr Who and he’s ok ?lol. I did it with Linda Baron and Keith Baron and it was a great experience and I recently did a film called Doman. I’ve done loads of bits and pieces, like a chat show for two years on LWT introducing Mica Paris, Courtney Pine and interviewing Narada Michael Walden. When was this? Remember it’s only recently we have late night TV but this was in 1989 and it was called Leee’s Place. So this was a vital period and I had LGCC on there too. I’m in talks with Sky about doing it again, back then I had Adelaide Hall who sang with Duke Ellington on there too. After Body Talk, even though I bought the album, I only really liked Burnin’ Up. Body Talk came in handy doing mix tapes for girls cause they liked it (Leee burst out laughing). But Burning Up was the one and to be honest it was hearing Dez Parkes spin it that reminded me of its greatness when we both guested at Bobby & Steve’s Club Zoo in 1990. The rest of the album to me was more geared to the commercial appeal of the group’s future pop success. Louie Vega’s excitement a couple of years ago when I gave him the 30 years of Brit Funk Soul Survivor issue was priceless. He asked “Is that Leee John who sang Just An Illusion, Music & Lights and Changes? Wow we used to play them tracks all the time in New York as they were huge.” With that it made me listen to those tracks again and appreciate the songs, moreso now, (Oh I see) when I first saw you live at Middlesex & Herts in 1984.
Yeah we did there and Epping Forest Country Club quite a bit. Funny you saying that cause when we went to the States to do Paradise Garage we thought it was Burning Up doing the damage. We had to learn a whole new routine for Burning Up and although Body Talk was out it was too slow. That song started off as a vocal that I wasn’t happy with and so the record company, as usual, just took the vocal off and put it out. Because it was unfinished I thought it could go on the second album but by that time the Dj’s were playing it and Larry Levan was championing the track. When we got to America they wanted So Good So Right. Every song was released as a single off the first album and I questioned how can we surpass this as it was like our own MJ Off The Wall. In the Heat of The Night went triple and it was an interesting period as we had four hits in one year. I understand where you’re coming from on the club scene and listening to it again in reflection that it wasn't so bad. I wanted to work with other people and eventually did but others wanted to keep me in this sound that had been created. When our manager Brian Long died in 1990 it was sad but in a sense a relief as Errol had gone in 1986 and Peter Roy came in, which was good as he’d hung out with Loose Ends and Central Line from going to the same clubs. Music was changing with the Jam & Lewis thing and I wanted to move in that direction. We did a track called The Key which wasn't released but will come out in the future that sounded like that heavy Jam & Lewis production but people at the time were still feeling things like Thank You My Love. We ended the decade on a high with a top 5 hit Just Like It Is with Tony Humphries remixes and David Morales did Instinctual which was number one in the States. I was chatting with Josh Milan at his hotel during his stay for the EOL concert at Jazz Cafe and he asked me to apologise to you about some misdemeanor over a mix for Instinctual in 1987 on RCA. He said he was just a kid and had been passed the mix by David Morales and felt that your voice was not in key with the music but the track was huge in New York. I've listened and seen the video. How did you get away with the erotic water and cherries and breast nipples shots? We went over to the States prior to recording the album Closer. Peter Robinson was A&R then and we went to Philadelphia, San Francisco and all over and worked with Nick Martinelli. We did I Know What Love Is, Closer and one of the last tracks on the album was Instinctual produced by Arthur Baker. We hated the original production and it turned out to be a billboard number one hit and the first mix was by David Morales. It was his first successful mix and he had tuned our vocals wrongly. The bass was in one key and our vocals in another which I felt was wrong, but it was part of the new dance wave in America where the consistent bass went throughout a dance record irrespective of www.thesoulsurvivors.co.uk
what key the vocals were in. We also had a video producer, Simon West, who did big films like Con Air and knew how to make me look good. It wasn't my idea to make the video controversial as you notice I'm dancing a lot, but he inserted for the American market on having a lovely lady with lots of plums and cherries coming off her breast. It was the aftermath of Body Talk’s impact and the management were still trying to exploit that. It went against all the work we had done on the album as Instinctual is a completely different track. It became a big classic record and then Morales went in and retuned it, which is what you hear now. In New Jersey there was a club where I met up with Blaze who were really good and had that kind of Temptations sound going on. We played a few times in New Jersey and Blaze really looked after me. It wasn't an argument or anything explosive with Blaze but Josh you're forgiven and I really admired the Motown album they did, as it crossed over the different sections of music we liked and thought that they should have done much better. Instinctual led me to work with Give Into The Rhythm and working with Tata Vega, Arthur Baker and the late Farley Jack Master. I wanted to ask you about that collaboration with Tata Vega. I didn't buy it but with that production it sounds familiar. Earlier you mentioned being a fan of Eddie Kendricks and within the lyrics you mention My People Hold On which is the title of his first solo album and a fave of mine. My question is what was it like to work with Tata Vega? We had fun with Arthur Baker and he said do the Eddie Kendricks emulation so I did and with Let There Be Love and sang it in London in my tenor voice register and sent it back to be multi tracked. Arthur contacted me and said where's Leee John? Who is this on the tape and I said its me...He said no... get your arse to America you gotta do it again and work on some other tracks. This became a regular thing, people wanting that falsetto sound. I was in awe of Tata Vega who sang in the Colour Purple film. She was really down to earth and told me after Motown she ended up living in a caravan which was quite sad but it was an honour to sing with Miss Get It Up For Love Tata Vega. It's like the Spiritual track with the Collective I really wanted to do the track and they waited for me as I was working in Germany. What happened with Imagination's break up as there were clearly some differences in the group and I think people want to know? Well Errol left the group after a dispute with the management. I had a motto that if you don't turn up for rehearsals you become unable do the show and he didn't turn up. There was some conflict with the management and I didn't agree with how Errol wanted to deal with it as Ashley and I had formed the group. Errol was cool but he had other issues and they created problems in the group. We had a new album and were meant to go on the Tony Blackburn show and Errol did a no show. Ashley and I spoke and he indicated that we didn't need Errol, Ashley also wanted to do more things outside the group which I encouraged him to pursue. After Brian died Ashley and I agreed to part ways and I continued as Imagination as the business side needed to be dealt with which was more me.
Ashley was more creative and went on to work with Desiree and Sinclair. I always wanted to do solo projects and eventually I ended up doing my jazz projects Feel My Soul and touring doing concerts and including classical gigs around the world. It was amazing doing a show without having to do one Imagination song and I can now work in a different way. I did think of getting everyone together for the anniversary but I realise I'm doing the me thing as I did 30 years ago with or without them and sometimes less is more and I'll only do it if it’s lucrative. I'm now doing my fourth documentary and I want to keep educating myself and move in a circle where my friends from Highbury Grove are all in academic positions. I've been approached to do a book on the Flashback documentary and I'm determined to show there is a body of work contributed in the UK that came from our black community that the young generation are unaware of. Emile Forde spent 6 weeks in the charts with What Are You Gonna Make Those Eyes At Me For? but no one knows he's a black man from here. We have pieces on Leslie Hutchinson the bad boy crooner in the documentary also and I just want to show a tapestry of what British blacks have contributed. We've also got Kenny Lynch the comedian-actor singer who had a number 3 hit with Up On The Roof in 1962. He also did Half The Days Gone And We Haven't Earned A Penny in the early 80's. Yes and he also wrote for The Small Faces and Dusty Springfield. We also interviewed Madeleine Bell, Geno Washington and Carl Douglas who did Kung fu fighting in the documentary. Carl who lived here but is originally from Jamaica was in bands in the 1960's as a session guy working on the American bases and also worked for Geno Washington. It's like Eddie Grant; he's done more than Living On The Front Line and Give Me Hope Joanna ..he was integral in the 1960's from being in the multicultural Equals. They were the second group of that nature; the first group to have a No1 hit over here and across the Atlantic was The Foundations. When these researchers, who are aged 25, are working on these soul programme's they have on BBC they always site Loose Ends or Soul II Soul to be the first UK black acts to have a hit in the USA. Imagination were top ten in America and they don't know that history. Osibisa were having top ten albums in the UK and America in billboard in the early 1970's. What's the story of how the group became Imagination? At the time John Lennon was number one in the chart with Imagine and the late great Steve Walsh, myself and Morgan were trying to think of a name. Everyone thought of something with ation at the end and I think it was Steve Walsh who made the connection with John Lennon and the rest is history. How aware are you of the significance of Burning Up as a precursor pioneering sound 5 years before Chicago house with the primal screams and piano stabs and thumping four floor production? I remember speaking with Dez Parkes and him saying that years ago with the piano solos and vocals. In New York there were similar records but I didn't
realise it until much later. Like Dez said it was an early inspiration of what was to become house music. Because of the flamboyant things that you wore sometimes it was hard to figure out if you were macho, camp or both? We were not camp until the British public realised we were not American and with the press and media, they were able to portray us as being camp. When your American, like Parliament and the George Clinton camp wearing nappies and high heel platform shoes, you’re deemed successful, but its another slight on how the British acts are perceived. Jeffrey Daniels pointed out to me that some of the American bands were watching us and started to wear brash outfits. Journalists and media control people's minds by printing a couple of lines which can be that influential. Tell us more about the 30th anniversary Flashback CD coming out on Sony. Basically I'm doing a tour in October and there's full versions of classic Imagination material and there are new tracks, the Art Of Love and The Truth produced by myself and Tony Swainn. This is our first collaboration since the Scandal album. Krash, the other new single, is me and Dvas. I decided to go back to my roots, so to speak, and when we played it to people they all loved it and although I didn't intend it to make the album. It's a bit like what Nile has done with Daft Punk and this time there is no compromise in me doing this and not what people expect. Thanks Leee its been a long time coming this interview. Thanks for jogging the cobwebs and my trip down memory lane Fitz.
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Interview:Fitzroy da Buzzboy Complilation: Anna Marshall The Soul Survivors All rights reserved 2013 Copyright The Soul Survivors Magazine
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