INTERVIEW WITH REAR ADMIRAL (RTD) O.O. JOSEPH RDSF CHAIRMAN

What were the societal values that shaped your generation and do those values still exist today? Are they still relevant in light of contemporary societal expectations and imperatives?

Background

Tell us about your background – childhood, family, and education.

I am Retired Rear Admiral Oladeinde Olusoga Joseph, born 75 years ago. I was born in Aramoko, Ekiti. My father, a soldier who fought in Burma in WW 2, did not allow me to stay too long in my village. I started school in my village before we moved to Osogbo, where he had started working at the Ministry of Works after he was demobilized from the army.

I come from a family of five, just like my nuclear family today. If my elder sister was alive today, she would have been 82. I attended a catholic school in Oshogbo, briefly, before my family moved to Ibadan.

The Western Region was developing at that time and because my father wanted to give me a sound education, we moved to Ibadan. I would say I grew up and schooled in Ibadan.

I attended a Methodist primary school in Ibadan where things were not necessarily too religious but basic family values were of help. The school gave birth to Methodist High School, Ibadan and I was among the first set of students of the school. It was very hard and harsh. It was not difficult to fish out whoever could not live on the front line. We protested to the principal because we thought the food we were given was not good enough. We walked 5 miles to the principal's house.

The principal listened to us and begged us to not cause any trouble as the first set of the school. The following Sunday in Church the preacher, Mr. Ojo, preached on ''Godliness with contentment is great gain". That word did a lot in my life. He ended the sermon with "Be your brother's keeper". Those things are very difficult to find these days. It is not the fault of people who do not look too satisfied. The system is not helping the situation much. The sermon got me to a clean and clear position of seeing things differently. These are values that are very difficult to catch and it is hurting our society right now. It makes us look like there are no values to hold on to which is not true.

When I was a Lieutenant Commander, my father visited me because he was ill and needed to see the doctor. One day he insisted on following me to the office. I sent my driver back home to pick him up. My father was in my reception for two hours. One senior officer came to tell me there is an old man at my reception. I said that is my father. I introduced him to my father.

My father said he had seen enough and said we will talk when I get back home. When I got home, he came and sat with me at the dining table and asked me to tell him the nature of my job. I was Director of Personnel at that young age. My job was to recruit, train and post those I have trained and get reports from people they are working for, update their records and promote. My father asked if these people come back to say “thank you” and he gave me some advice.

He said I should not accept “thank you” from nine out of ten of them. He explained that if the one I received “thank you” from goes into the society to speak ill of me, the other nine will lynch him. I took that advice and it worked even as I went on to become a governor. I had a lot of goodwill. When I was sick last year, an individual gave my son 10 million Naira. Those are values that I hold onto up till now and I passed them to my children.

“...Mr. Ojo, preached on ''Godliness with contentment is great gain". That word did a lot in my life. He ended the sermon with "Be your brother's keeper". Those things are very difficult to find these days.”

What do you think is wrong with society, particularly, the way youths are nurtured, and how do you think this can be addressed?

I am a father and a grandfather. I remember when my first son graduated from the university. I insisted that he should work in some places. I told him to have a lot of patience. Youths nowadays do not have patience. It is difficult to blame them because our values have also changed.

The system is not providing for our youths. They become restless and troublesome to society because their expectations are no longer met. The government is daily becoming irresponsible. They promise things and they do not do them.

Society is upside down. I was one of the beneficiaries of Obafemi Awolowo’s free education policy and I know the kind of relief they gave to our parents. We keep praying that God in His wisdom, will be able to make corrections.

My daughter-in-law is a Consultant Oncologist at LUTH. She told me that when she is interviewing doctors for job positions, 95% of them are already writing exams to travel out of Nigeria. Even if government trains people, they eventually lose them. The system is not providing enough for them to grow and there is no way we can do it except we change the educational system in such a way that every graduate will find consolation in what they are doing.

“The system is not providing for our youths. They become restless and troublesome to society because their expectations are no longer met. The government is daily becoming irresponsible. They promise things and they do not do them.”

Family And Parenting

With your wealth of personal and professional experience tempered by your upbringing and the values of society while you were growing up, how do you think the family unit, community, society, and the nation at large could better mesh in a more wholesome manner?

It is becoming more difficult daily. Each of my three children has a minimum of two qualifications. My daughter went to England for her MBA and she did not get a job. Even if you get invited for an interview, you will be told that you have no experience.

It is frustrating to the family. Even if I do not expect that she should take care of me, I expect that she should be able to make life comfortable for herself.

The correcting effect is getting people to look for means like RDSF, to take the stress off families, and give them some relief - but it is also temporary. It is very difficult, and that's why people always consider relocating abroad, where the welfare system is better organized. Few of them come back.

You have been married for 48 years. Can you share with us some of the marital values that have kept your marriage?

It is not an easy one. I was 27 and my wife was 25 when we got married. I was working so also my wife. We were growing and were able to manage. It is a very long story. I have had a very good marriage. My wife was an orphan from age 6. We had grown together. It's humane that when you grow older you know if you don't keep the person, you are with, there's no place to run to. It puts a lot of pressure on you to make things work. It is about the commitment to make it work.

On parenting, many parents are eager to choose a career path for their children and this sometimes leads to an estranged relationship. What advice do you have for young parents regarding this issue?

I was a Navy Commander in Port-Harcourt when my two children were in secondary school. I was thinking of how to guide them and my wife was putting pressure on me to get my son into the Navy so he can replace me. I told him about an upcoming Navy interview and he went - but he did not take part in the interview because he was asked to take off his clothes. I thought maybe he would go in at an advanced age. After secondary school, I took the Nigerian Defense Academy form and filled it out for him. I saw that his interest was not that. My last son never showed any interest at all. He wanted to be an Engineer and showed early signs of it. I think parents don't have to insist on what their children must be because as they grow up, they have their thoughts and passion. Give children the chance and opportunity to educate themselves and let them be able to find value in their chosen career path; just encourage them. That is the best advice I can give.

have been assigned to do and still manage to pay adequate attention to your family.

What advice do you have for our readers on ensuring a work–life balance?

For example, every Navy Barracks I know have strong welfare programs to keep the families focused and reduce stress while their spouses are away. What can be done is nothing more than having more organisations helping to relieve the emotional stress of people. The government must be focused and think along that line; to get officers focused and committed.

PERSONAL VALUES, ETHICS, AND CULTURE

You had a long and illustrious career in the Navy culminating in your selection as Military Administrator of Ogun State and promotion to the rank of Rear Admiral, what would you say were the values and ethical practices you held dear that led to your selection as governor and your promotion to the rank of Rear Admiral?

I was the Military Governor of Ogun State. I was not trained to be a governor but I was lucky to be governor because the military found itself in government and I was picked based on my vast administrative experience. Some duties were forced on our wives and children because it was tough. Personally, for us to get into the system and society, and to understand what the government wanted and what we as individuals can do makes it tough. To the grace of Almighty God, some of us were successful. Remember what I started with? If you are godly you will be contented.

The military is a tough profession that places great demands on the time of officers and soldiers to the detriment of their family life. What was your secret to ensuring the cohesion of your family and what would be your advice to our readers on maintaining a worklife balance?

I think it is the Grace of the Almighty God. I remember I was going on a course to the United States of America when my last child was born. I took my bleeding wife to the hospital and from there I went to the airport. He was born in my absence through a caesarean operation. You just must pray for an understanding spouse. My marriage had to be postponed twice because I was at the sea. For me, it worked positively but not for many. It is not easy to give your best to the job you

The military is known for conformity, in what instance could you say you broke with tradition in pursuit of a greater good and what was the outcome?

I did not do any business while in the military. It was not necessary. They had things for us to do. I didn't have any course to leave the job and do something else. My wife still claims she married the “ wrong” man. I was very committed. I had colleagues who were doing other things but some of them didn't get to where I got to.

Signs and opportunities were there but the military of my time was total commitment. All I heard was "Is it only you". My boss became jealous of me at some point, he did not write my report for two years. My wife would always cry but I told her not to worry and that things will work out fine as the

Almighty reigns. He was forced to write the report and even when he didn’t write it correctly, he was forced to rewrite it. Once you are committed, the system of my time would recognize your effort.

Today, youths say that the pressures and expectations they face are different from what obtained before. Is this position valid and what are your views on the values the youths of today have?

We must review our educational system and keep it consistent. I will relate to my personal experience when my children were growing up. My son had 201 in JAMB and wasn't admitted to any university. His friends with 160 got admitted. I followed him to the JAMB office. These are physical things that affect children.

We must push the system and keep a standard that they must be able to follow. The system must ensure and allow them to attain it themselves so that they can have confidence in themselves that will build the nation. Until we can do that, things are going to be very difficult.

“Our system should not allow lecturers to be on strike for nine months, as this will mean that students will have lost a session . The government must care.”

Enhancing Education

What would you say are the major challenges of the education sector in Nigeria?

Our system should not allow lecturers to be on strike for nine months, as this will mean that students will have lost a session . The government must care.

The educational system should be well structured in a way that it will not interrupt a child’s learning process and delay graduation. Until the government can do that, education will not be stabilized.

While I was Governor of Ogun State, the state university which was eight years old at the time needed to appoint a new Vice-Chancellor. A committee was set up to interview some applicants and they recommended three candidates. You will agree that the person who came first should be given the job but in the real sense of it, all three were qualified.

Different pressure groups had their candidates; including a former head of State. He came to my house to tell me his people had sent him to influence my choice of VC. They had picked the candidate who placed second but I made him see reasons why that choice would not be fair because some other senior positions were occupied by people from his area in the state. He saw reason with me and in the end, I adopted the recommendation of a security committee I had set up on the matter. The person who placed third was appointed Vice-Chancellor. He had been the Deputy VC for five years and the students celebrated. Two hours after the announcement was published, Tai Solarin came to my office and I was surprised because he does not come to the Government House. To my amazement, he shook my hands and said you have handled this well. God was on my side because you must point your society in a direction where peace will prevail.

“The educational system should be well structured in a way that it will not interrupt a child’s learning process and delay graduation. Until the government can do that, education will not be stabilized.”

Education is on the ‘Concurrent List’ of governance in this country, meaning the Government at all levels (i.e. Federal, State, and Local) has responsibilities to manage it. The private sector also plays a vital role in support of education in Nigeria. Yet the sector is deteriorating. Would the education sector’s infrastructural challenges not be better addressed if education was privatized considering the private sector’s expertise in efficient resource utilization?

From my personal experience, we have not done well because we have allowed politics and money to get involved in education. We must begin to reorientate our system to support education. If the primary and secondary education is good and sound, the child will follow through but when it’ s faulty, life becomes complicated. Government cannot fund education totally; some systems must support it, just like what RDSF is doing. The systems will make education have better results than it does today. In Nigeria, we are yet to achieve a good educational system, we talk and do not follow up with action. You cannot completely privatize education because the sole aim will be to enhance profit and you would have disenfranchised some people. Any government in any part of the world must make its commitment to education known. The government must be sincere and committed.

“Government cannot fund education totally; some systems must support it, just like what RDSF is doing. The systems will make education have better results than it does today.”

The emphasis on education in postindependence Nigeria was on such professions as medicine, law, and accounting amongst others to the detriment of particularly Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics. Could this skewed preference be responsible for the present low industrialization of the nation? How can this be addressed?

A few days ago, my carpenter came with his son to say he wants to join the Force. I looked at his result and he had a P in English language. I told him I can help him to sit for the exam but also explained the implication of it. It is the system that must ensure that education is geared toward achieving effective results. Just like this boy, having a P in English language should not limit him but the system should be able to provide a satisfactory alternative for him. The systems should do their best at assisting the government. Let the government do its bit and leave the system to take its course.

Considering the gamut of problems besieging the education sector, how best can civil society and the private sector participate in alleviating the problems?

Like RDSF is doing currently, many others should focus on solving the problem as well. We can see where the government is failing and we should support it however we can. You cannot force the government to do what it didn’t campaign for.

One leg of Rehoboth Dream Solid Foundation’s focus is education. How can it be better positioned to serve its stakeholders more effectively?

By doing exactly what we are doing now. If you are sensitive to all the issues in education, you must begin to look at how to use its failures to improve for better results. We must do all we need to do to assist the government in its failures. Once you have people in the system and board who are sensitive to that, success will be guaranteed.

Economic Empowerment

Youth unemployment is a major challenge in Nigeria; however, the export of human capital is a veritable source of income to countries such as India and Bangladesh. Why can’t human capital export from Nigeria be seen as a positive development rather than it being seen as a brain drain? Furthermore, what can be done to optimize this window of opportunity?

Once we improve our system that makes what is going on in other countries better than ours, then our youths will not run. Government must ensure adequate provisions of useful facilities for the youths. The Government is in one way or another benefiting from citizens in foreign countries. It is our failed system that is encouraging people to relocate and that is why it is seen as a brain drain. Many people traveling go through a lot of adaptation processes that should naturally discourage them; such as the weather and if they have similar opportunities here, they will stay back.

Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics particularly ICT are professions for the future, how can Nigeria become a hub like India for the development of Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics?

If you take the top ten ICT jobs in the world today, eight are held by Indians. I was trained in India and I know the amount of effort Indians put into their education system; that is what they are reaping now. Nigeria should look at improving its system to a stage that satisfies the local need before it can start exporting. I am aware that we have very qualified Nigerians in foreign countries and it is sad. The system over there encourages them to stay. We are not doing enough to encourage our citizens and it will affect us eventually.

A key driver for the development of most developed countries is the emphasis on technical and vocational training for the youth. Does this contradict Nigerians’ penchant for university degrees for youths at the expense of developing technical, vocational, and entrepreneurial capacity? How can Nigeria develop and optimize vocational, entrepreneurial, and technical training?

You limit a child from learning when you base the child’s success on a certificate. The system must provide for children with low grades an alternative to a satisfactory education. We must place importance on vocational training. In some foreign countries, nobody emphasizes certificates. What you study should not limit you from learning other skills. You can get empowered by attending vocational schools which we are not emphasizing now and we should because that is the only way a country can grow. Vocational training in very key and important.

“You can get empowered by attending vocational schools which we are not emphasizing now and we should because that is the only way a country can grow.

REHOBOTH DREAM SOLID FOUNDATION.

You serve as the Chairman of the Board of Trustees of the Rehoboth Dream Solid Foundation (RDSF), can you share with us what influenced your decision to join the Board even though it is a pro bono service?

When the founders spoke to me about their plans to start the Foundation, I did not hesitate to join. I thank God for the success of the Foundation. I am enjoying every improvement. I’m grateful to be a part of the vision of the Foundation. I will be a part of this till I no longer have the strength to.

What project executed by the Foundation would you consider the most emotional to you and why?

To take a blind child from a terrible position and provide the necessary facilities that go beyond the child’s expectation, such a system is not only enduring but rewarding, because even the beneficiary at the end of the day will feel happy. After reading the Thinking Aloud Magazine, I am encouraged to want to do more. It is difficult to pick one project. My prayer is for God to grant us the light and knowledge of accepting and testing new ideas to do more. I vividly remember the teachers’ appreciation program; it is so rewarding because it flows back to the students we are trying to support. I love the teachers’ award program.

Based on your experience on the Board of RDSF, what would be your counsel to Nigerians interested in joining the board of an NGO or seeking to set up one?

Whatever you can do to draw sponsors to participate in our programs rather than starting their own Foundation or supporting any available NGOs. I will encourage our system to influence and encourage them. Not everybody can start an NGO. I encourage people to be part of a Foundation like this.

The scholarship application portal for the 2023/2024 academic session will be opened on the 1st of April 2023 to give tertiary indigent students across the country the opportunity to apply and be supported by the Foundation. Indigent students who wish to apply should visit our website or follow us on our social media pages for steers. The application process is online and transparent and past beneficiaries can attest to this.