Alter Ego #124 by TwoMorrows Publishing

Roy Thomas’ Incredible Comics Fanzine

No.124 May 2014

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Edited by ROY THOMAS The first and greatest “hero-zine”—ALL-NEW, focusing on GOLDEN AND SILVER AGE comics and creators with ARTICLES, INTERVIEWS, UNSEEN ART, P.C. Hamerlinck’s FCA [Fawcett Collectors of America], MICHAEL T. GILBERT in Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, BILL SCHELLY’S Comic Fandom Archive, and more!

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SUPERMAN issue! PAUL CASSIDY (early Superman artist), Italian Nembo Kid, and ARLEN SCHUMER’s look at the MORT WEISINGER era, plus an interview with son HANK WEISINGER! Art by SHUSTER, BORING, ANDERSON, PLASTINO, and others! LEONARD STARR interview Part III—FCA—Mr. Monster—more 2011 Fandom Celebration, and a MURPHY ANDERSON/ARLEN SCHUMER cover!

MARV WOLFMAN talks to RICHARD ARNDT about his first decade in comics on Tomb of Dracula, Teen Titans, Captain Marvel, John Carter, Daredevil, Nova, Batman, etc., behind a GENE COLAN cover! Art by COLAN, ANDERSON, CARDY, BORING, MOONEY, and more! Plus: the conclusion of our LEONARD STARR interview by JIM AMASH, FCA, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and more!

MARVEL ISSUE on Captain America and the gang! MARTIN GOODMAN’s Broadway debut, speculations about FF #1, the INVADERS issue that never was, interview with Golden Age writer/artist DON RICO, art by KIRBY, AVISON, SHORES, ROMITA, SEVERIN, TUSKA, ALLEN BELLMAN, and others! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER and BILL SCHELLY! Cover by BELLMAN and MITCH BREITWEISER!

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ALTER EGO #117

ALTER EGO #118

ALTER EGO #119

3-D COMICS OF THE 1950S! In-depth feature by RAY (3-D) ZONE, actual red and green 1950s 3-D art (includes free glasses!) by SIMON & KIRBY, KUBERT, MESKIN, POWELL, MAURER, NOSTRAND, SWAN, BORING, SCHWARTZ, MOONEY, SHORES, TUSKA and many others! Plus FCA, Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, BILL SCHELLY, and more! Cover by JOE SIMON and JACK KIRBY!

JOE KUBERT TRIBUTE! Four Kubert interviews, art by RUSS HEATH, NEAL ADAMS, MURPHY ANDERSON, MICHAEL KALUTA, SAM GLANZMAN, and others, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, BILL SCHELLY’s Comic Fandom Archive, FCA’s Captain Video conclusion by GEORGE EVANS that inspired Avengers foe Ultron, cover by KUBERT, with a portrait by DANIEL JAMES COX!

GOLDEN AGE ARTISTS L.B. COLE AND JAY DISBROW! DISBROW’s memoir of COLE and his work on CAT-MAN, art by BOB FUJITANI, CHARLES QUINLAN, IRWIN HASEN, FCA (Fawcett Collector’s of America) on the two-media career of Captain Video, MICHAEL T. GILBERT in Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, BILL SCHELLY on comics fandom history, Cat-Man cover by L.B. COLE!

AVENGERS 50th ANNIVERSARY! WILL MURRAY on the group’s behind-thescenes origin, a look at its first decade with ROY THOMAS, STAN LEE, JACK KIRBY, THE BROTHERS BUSCEMA, TUSKA, ADAMS, COLAN, BUCKLER, ENGLEHART, MERRY MARVEL MARCHING SOCIETY, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, FCA, Golden Age Blue Beetle artist E.C. STONER, unused Avengers cover by DON HECK!

MARC SWAYZE TRIBUTE ISSUE, spotlighting FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America)! Salutes from Fawcett alumnus C.C. BECK and OTTO BINDER, interview with wife JUNE SWAYZE, a full Phantom Eagle story from Wow Comics, plus interview with 1950s Dell/Western artist MEL KEEFER, MICHAEL T. GILBERT in Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, and a SWAYZE Marvel Family cover art from the 1940s!

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TwoMorrows. A New Day For Comics Fans! ALTER EGO #120

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ALTER EGO #123

X-MEN SALUTE! 1963-69 secrets, rare ‘60s BRAZILIAN X-MEN stories, lost ‘60s XMen “character sheet” by STAN LEE, ROY THOMAS on the 1970s revival, art and artifacts by KIRBY, ROTH, ADAMS, HECK, FRIEDRICH, and BUSCEMA—plus the MMMS fan club story, interview with Golden Age writer ED SILVERMAN, FCA, Mr. Monster, BILL SCHELLY, and JACK KIRBY’s unused X-Men #10 cover!

GOLDEN AGE JUSTICE SOCIETY ISSUE! Features on JOHN B. WENTWORTH (Johnny Thunder), LEN SANSONE (The Atom), and BERNARD SACHS (All-Star Comics inker), art by CARMINE INFANTINO, BOB OKSNER, HOWARD PURCELL, STAN ASCHMEIER, BEN FLINTON, and H.G. PETER, plus FCA, Mr. Monster, and more! Cover homage by SHANE FOLEY to a vintage All-Star image by IRWIN HASEN!

Farewell salute to the COMICS BUYER’S GUIDE! TBG/CBG history and remembrances from ALAN LIGHT, MURRAY BISHOFF, MAGGIE THOMPSON, BRENT FRANKENHOFF, “final” CBG columns by MARK EVANIER, TONY ISABELLA, PETER DAVID, FRED HEMBECK, JOHN LUSTIG, classic art by DON NEWTON, MIKE VOSBURG, JACK KIRBY, MIKE NASSER, plus FCA, Mr. Monster, and more!

DENNY O’NEIL’s Silver Age career at Marvel, Charlton, and DC—aided and abetted by ADAMS, KALUTA, SEKOWSKY, LEE, GIORDANO, THOMAS, SCHWARTZ, APARO, BOYETTE, DILLIN, SWAN, DITKO, et al. Plus, we begin serializing AMY KISTE NYBERG’s groundbreaking book on the history of the Comics Code, FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America), Mr. Monster, BILL SCHELLY and more!

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Vol. 3, No. 124 / May 2014 Editor Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor

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Michael T. Gilbert

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Editorial Honor Roll

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Cover Colorist Tom Ziuko

With Special Thanks to: Mark Lewis Heidi Amash Stephen Moore Pedro Angosto Brian T. Morris Ger Apeldoorn Amy Kiste Nyberg Richard J. Arndt Janet Olsen Bob Bailey Barry Pearl Mike W. Barr Bill Pearson John Benson Bill Peckmann Mike Burkey Steve Perrin Nick Caputo John G. Pierce Dewey Cassell Jay Piscopo comicartfans Robert Policastro [website] Warren Reece ComicBookPlus Jon Riley [website] Randy Sargent Jon B. Cooke Peter Schilder Ray Cuthbert Anthony Snyder Justin Fairfax Thomas Suhling Shane Foley Aaron Sultan Janet Gilbert Jeff Taylor Jennifer Go Dann Thomas Glen David Gold Hames Ware Dave Gutierrez Mike Zeck Neil A. Hansen Jeff Harnett R.C. Harvey Allan Holtz Sean Howe Dr. M. Thomas Inge Jeff Jaworski Glen Johnson Jim Kealy Alan Kupperberg Dominique Leonard

This issue is dedicated to the memory of

Dan Adkins & Les Daniels

Contents

Writer/Editorial: Herb, The Hulk, And Me . . . . . . 2 “Super-Heroes Are So Damned Boring!” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 Still, Herb Trimpe talks to Dewey Cassell about drawing them for three decades at Marvel!

Seal Of Approval: The History Of The Comics Code. . . . . . 39 Chapter 1 of our serialization of the 1998 book on comics censorship by Amy Kiste Nyberg.

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt! . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 55 Michael T. Gilbert presents Dr. M. Thomas Inge’s look at “strange bedfellows” of the 1950s.

Comic Fandom Archive: A Mask, A Cape, And Steve Perrin . . 61 Bill Schelly chats with one of early fandom’s most prolific and talented writers.

Tributes to Dan Adkins & Les Daniels . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 67 re: [correspondence, comments, & corrections] . . . . . . . . . 70 FCA [Fawcett Collectors Of America] #183 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .73 P.C. Hamerlinck introduces more of Otto Binder’s memoirs—and the revolt of the comics. On Our Cover: No, it’s not really a coincidence that the cover of this issue of A/E—a partial recreation by star interviewee Herb Trimpe of his cover for The Incredible Hulk #181 (Nov. 1974)— repeats the theme of the very recent Back Issue #70. Y’see, we had a totally different cover all ready to go (see above & below), when we discovered that the resolution on the scan we had wasn’t of sufficient quality to allow it to reproduce well enough. So we scrapped that one, and it was publisher John Morrow—who was definitely aware of the then-upcoming BI cover—who suggested we use this one instead, of the several Hulk-related images Ye Editor proffered. We’ve got to admit, it fits—especially since Herb chose to discuss the 1974 origins of The Wolverine with Dewey Cassell. Thanks to Aaron Sultan for this sterling piece. [Hulk & Wolverine TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.] Above: And here’s the Herb Trimpe commission illo we originally intended to use as this issue’s cover— as provided by art dealer Anthony Snyder. (Visit his website at www.anthonysnyder.com/art) We had the black-&-white image he sent us scanned and eventually colored—with a backdrop of numerous examples of Trimpe Marvel art to frame it—but then we (meaning Ye Ed) couldn’t locate the actual photocopy Anthony had sent, which the publisher felt we needed for better reproduction, nor could Anthony provide a better copy, since by then the art had been sold. So we decided to utilize the above figure—as colored by Dave Gutierrez—as our contents page illo. [Hulk TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.] Alter EgoTM is published 8 times a year by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Eight-issue subscriptions: $67 US, $85 Canada, $104 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in China. ISSN: 1932-6890 FIRST PRINTING.

writer/editorial

Herb, The Hulk, And Me

obody asked me, but I’m going the spill the beans about Herb Trimpe anyway:

He was an absolute joy to work with. I remember well the day in 1969 that Stan Lee dumped the pencils for the entire story for The Incredible Hulk #120 on my desk and said to me, “From now on, you’re writing Hulk!” I said, “Okay”—because that was what I always said when Stan “asked” me to take over some comic he didn’t feel he had time to write any longer. I came in on the middle of a continued story, whose second half had already been plotted: Maximus and some “evil Inhumans” were locked in combat with “Thunderbolt” Ross and his troops, with the Hulk first on one side, then on the other. I had certainly never lusted after scripting Ol’ Greenskin’s adventures, not even when Jack Kirby had been laying out the pages… and though I had dialogued halves of two earlier issues penciled by Marie Severin, I’d never given a moment’s thought to the possibility that one day I might become his regular chronicler. Nor was I especially looking forward to it now. To me, the best part of the assignment was being teamed up with Herb. Working with him was infectious and enjoyable. He was such a fabulous storyteller that, already in that first dialoguing job, I found it easy to choose the words to put in the characters’ mouths. (And not just “Hulk stomp!,” either.) A few days later, when I mentioned to Herb that, for our first full issue together, I’d like to adapt the Golden Age creature The Heap, from the long-defunct Airboy Comics, for the Hulk’s next opponent, he remembered that original four-color muck-monster and was enthusiastic about doing so. When first the pencils, then the inks, were turned in, it showed.

The ideas flowed easily, from month to month: the Thing as guest star (you can’t beat a good Hulk/Thing fight—never could!)… The Leader and his Murder Module (the word “module” was all over the newspapers in those heady days following the first moon landing)... the near-marriage of Bruce and Betty, with the Hulk and The Rhino splitting the role of Dustin Hoffman… a battle with Hulk’s old teammates, The Avengers… a re-match with The Glob (the name Stan had given our Heap reincarnation)… and especially the story in which the Hulk and Bruce Banner became two separate entities who, naturally, hated each other (the tale grew out of my desire to do a “Mort Weisinger/Superman story”). When we jointly agreed that the Hulk should have a new teenage pal to replace Rick Jones, and that he should be AfricanAmerican, Herb’s designs for Jim Wilson were flawless and made the character come instantly alive. And when we decided it would be fun to have Jade-Jaws (my addition to his roster of nicknames) become the “golem” of an oppressed foreign country— partly inspired by his occasional sobriquet “the green golem”—we managed to craft a well-remembered two-parter with nary a monster or super-villain in sight—aside from the Hulk, of course.

As I began to get more and more occupied with editorial duties, I did seek out some plotting assistance on Hulk. First I purchased a synopsis for a twoissue “Moby-Dick in space” storyline from my good friend Gerry Conway (I paid him, but didn’t bother to credit him, any more than I’d later take a byline for my plot for his Tomb of Dracula #1, so I guess we’re Radical Sheek even). Soon after that, I invited This Trimpe/Severin page from The Incredible Hulk #142 (Aug. 1971) science-fiction writer Harlan combined the styles of the social-commentary cartoon Feiffer (by Jules Ellison to plot a “Hulk” tale; his F.) with a Joe Maneely-style thin-line rendering of the background art. very fine storyline, which built Script by Roy Thomas. Did Marie Severin perhaps do the coloring? She on the theme of Ray Cummings’ often colored her brother's work at Marvel. Thanks to Barry Pearl. early SF story “The Girl in the Since Herb often worked in the [© Marvel Characters, Inc.] Golden Atom,” gave the Marvel office, sharing a space with John Universe Jarella and many Romita and one or two others, I could plot with him, as I had with another epic adventure for years to come. Doc Samson was a Marie on Sub-Mariner, just by strolling in, pulling up a chair, and reasonably original character I wanted to do, although his name the two of us yakking for a while. Most of the germs of plot ideas was inspired by Doc Savage and his costume by Captain Tootsie were probably mine, but I suspect some came from Herb. What (as Herb recounts on pp. 25-26 in this issue). mattered was: by the time we got through kicking ideas around for fifteen minutes, maybe a half hour, we usually had enough figured out that he could start drawing. And if he had any plot problems later that we needed to iron out, well, he knew where to find me, at least two or three days a week: in the office just down the hall with production manager Sol Brodsky (later John Verpoorten) and Stan’s current corresponding secretary.

And then came the immense fun of Incredible Hulk #142, which introduced a Valkyrie who was not simply an evil Asgardian goddess in disguise—and which arose from my admiration for New Journalist Tom Wolfe, who gave us his blessing to put him into the yarn. Herb instantly got into the spirit of the thing, a

writer/editorial

takeoff on the Leonard Bernsteins and their January 14, 1970, Park Avenue party celebrating the Black Panthers, which Wolfe had skewered beautifully in his article, then book Radical Chic. Herb’s Jules Feifferesque page featuring inker/production man Tony Mortellaro (see facing page) made the whole story worth doing, for me personally! A couple of issues later, having become busier still, I departed The Incredible Hulk with some reluctance… not because I’d particularly miss writing the Jolly Green Giant (I’d never grown overly fond of scripting Hulk’s monosyllabic dialect), but because it meant Herb and I wouldn’t be working together on a mag any longer. Oh, we got together briefly on “Hulk” stories once or twice later, including in the second issue of What If, and even a whole run of Fantastic Four Unlimited issues in the ’90s… but those were just temporary liaisons. From 1969 through 1971, we had truly been in sync, and had produced some episodes that, I like to think, consisted of a bit more than just the Hulk smashing something.

Not too shabby for an odd-couple combination of a barnstorming biplane pilot and a guy who gets nervous when he’s more than three feet off the ground. But then, I was never the type, either—as Herb definitely was—to be mistaken for Alan Alda when he went running in Central Park, during the heyday of M*A*S*H on TV. (At least one guy yelled out to him, “Hey, Hawkeye!” And they weren’t talking about an archer.) Me, I was never mistaken for anyone but John Denver… and that was only once, by a tip-hungry maitre d’, the day after a Denver special on TV. When Herb and I were teamed up again, a couple of years back, to do a Hulk/Jarella story for the limited series Heart of the Atom, it was a pleasant reminder of a time when the industry was all about having fun and meeting the deadline and maybe selling a few comic books, without the pressure of coming up with a “megaevent” every year to keep the stockholders and corporate bosses happy.

Not that there’s anything wrong with the Hulk smashing something, mind! Herb and I never particularly palled around. He generally took the evening train back to Peekskill, while I walked or took a subway or cab up to East 86th Street, so our paths didn’t often cross outside of office hours, except at the occasional party. I don’t have a single photo of the two of us together, unless the whole office is there, as well, like in the 1971 Rolling Stone spread. But working with him on The Incredible Hulk for two years was an undiluted pleasure—a great experience for me, and an even better one for Marvel. I no longer recall the precise numbers, but I do know that, based on sales figures of issues done by Herb and me in tandem, the Hulk print run was increased no less than twice during our run on it. (Not that the mag hadn’t already been selling quite well, thank you, under the old management of Lee and Trimpe!)

Sure, I miss not writing a monthly comic book anymore. It’s what I lived for, for several decades. It kept my adrenalin pumped up. But mostly I miss not working with guys like John and Sal Buscema and Gil Kane and Barry Smith and Marie Severin and Gene Colan and Rich Buckler and Ross Andru and Neal Adams… …and Herb Trimpe. Very definitely Herb Trimpe. Still, it was great while it lasted. And it lasted, come to think of it, a fairly long time. Bestest,

COMING IN MAY

125

Golden Age “Air Wave” Artist

LEE HARRIS! —And That’s Just For Openers!

Art © DC Comics

• Miraculous art montage by HARRIS of his “Wizard of Wireless” hero from 1940s Detective Comics—and his parrot Static! • RICHARD J. ARNDT interviews JONATHAN LEVEY—son of LEE HARRIS (real name: JOSEPH LEVEY)—about his father’s classic work on DC’s Air Wave & Lando – Man of Magic, MLJ’s Green Falcon, and Fox’s The Flame! Not to mention—the unsolved mystery of DC’s Tarantula, with never-before-published illo! Plus art by GEORGE ROUSSOS, JERRY ROBINSON, HAL SHARP, et al.! • Continuing our sensational serialization of AMY KISTE NYBERG’s Seal of Approval— including the 1948 Comics Code and the coming of DOC WERTHAM! • Plus: FCA with OTTO BINDER & MR. TAWNY—MICHAEL T. GILBERT on his early strip Inkspots—BILL SCHELLY with STEVE PERRIN, Part 2—& MORE!!

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“Super-Heroes Are So Damned Boring!” “Happy” HERB TRIMPE On His Years With Marvel Comics—And The Incredible Hulk Conducted by Dewey Cassell

NTERVIEWER’S INTRODUCTION: There are those quiet people who work largely in the background, who don’t seek fame or notoriety, but who get the job done time and again, making a big impact without making a sound. Herb Trimpe is one of those people. He worked for Marvel Comics for almost 30 years, commencing only a few years after the resurgence of super-heroes began, starting out in production but quickly proving his artistic ability drawing Westerns. As an artist, he exhibited a remarkable gift for storytelling. He drew stories for Marvel featuring classic characters like Nick Fury and Ant-Man, and off-beat characters like Killraven and Son of Satan. But he was also the premier artist on The Incredible Hulk for nearly eight years. He literally defined the iconic character for a generation, helping to make the green goliath a household name.

I had a chance to talk with Herb about his background, his passions, his pet peeves, and his favorite comics, from the beginning through 1974. Like all the members of the Marvel Bullpen at the time, he was given a nickname by editor Stan Lee: “Happy” Herb Trimpe. After hearing him talk about his various accomplishments during the course of his career in a modest and matter-of-fact way, it seems perhaps that a more appropriate moniker might have been “Humble” Herb Trimpe. Here, then, is an interview with the man behind the monster—and so many other characters beloved by the fans of Marvel Comics. (This presentation is compiled from interviews conducted in 2012 and 2013.)

“So That’s The Family History” DEWEY CASSELL: When and where were you born? HERB TRIMPE: In Peekskill, New York, May 26th, 1939, on the Hudson River, an hour and a half from New York City. CASSELL: So, what does the “W” stand for in Herb W. Trimpe? TRIMPE: [laughs] It is “William.” Actually, they named me “Herbert,” after my dad, even way after the name wasn’t popular any more. And they named me “William” after his brother, my uncle. So it’s all family-related names. I wish they’d been a little more original. I would rather be a “John,” actually, or a “Fred,” I think. CASSELL: “Herb” is very distinctive, though. TRIMPE: Yeah, actually, it works as “Herb,” but it doesn’t work as “Herbert.”

Cover Me! Herb Trimpe (top) at a Big Apple Con in 2008—and his most famous cover ever, for The Incredible Hulk #181 (Nov. 1974). See pp. 26-27 for some little-known facts about this cover and the 1974 origins of Wolverine. Thanks to Herb for the photo. [Cover © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

CASSELL: What did your parents do? TRIMPE: My dad did various things. He was primarily a skilled sheet metal worker. That was his job during World War II, working in shipping yards in New Jersey. When World War II was ending, we moved back to Peekskill. My dad had to leave New Jersey because we lived in an area below sea level and it was very damp and he wound up in the hospital with pneumonia as a very young

“Super-Heroes Are So Damned Boring!”

A Family Album (Far left:) Herb’s father Herb Sr., his mother Annie, and himself, sometime in the first half of the 1940s. (Center:) His mom today, with a great-grandchild.

man. It nearly did him in, so we moved back to New York State, when I was about five or so. And then he worked at various places. There were a number of companies around that are no longer there. You know, American industry is not what it used to be. [chuckles] You could live in a small town and go to work in a local factory, but it’s not doable any more. He actually wound up retiring with a very good pension from the Peekskill Public School System, where he was a—I don’t know what they call it now—maintenance engineer. In those days, they called him a janitor. So that’s where we wound up. I don’t know if he actually retired. I don’t think he had reached 65 yet, but he got sick from working around asbestos for too long and wound up contracting lung cancer, and that took about two years to finish my dad off. And my mom, who had been a stay-at-home mom when I was in elementary and junior high school, worked in a local supermarket in Peekskill at the time, back in the meat packing department. When my dad died, she was kind of on her own. By that time, my brother and I were grown up and out and married. She lived alone for ten years after my dad died and then at 70, she remarried. It was an old friend of hers and my dad’s, actually going way back to elementary school, whose wife had also died of cancer. They just started hanging out and wound up getting married. They were married for 14 years and then he died. She lived by herself up in Peekskill for a while. Then we bought a bigger house in Hurley after renting for three years in Rhinebeck, New York, and she moved in with us. My wife Patricia’s mom is with us, too, so we’ve kind of got a mini-old-folks’ home here. [Dewey chuckles] The only other thing I can tell you about my mom is she always wanted to play golf, so she’s very hip on all the tournaments that take place and she has her favorites. And she loves to watch Dancing with the Stars and both The Bachelor and The Bachelorette, which she gets very opinionated and steamed up about. [chuckles] So that’s the family history. CASSELL: You told me that you had a brother, named Mike, right? Were you the only children? TRIMPE: Yeah, we were. And we were seven years apart, so it was quite a gap. It wasn’t a brother you could interact with much in the early years, because of the age discrepancy. But when he got into high school and I was in my twenties, then we did a lot of stuff

(Above:) Herb’s brother Mike, posing with Herb’s biplane. Thanks to Herb for these photos.

together, mostly playing baseball or just talking about baseball or talking about movies. But we were very close and stayed in contact on a regular basis. Yearly visits, sometimes twice a year, because he was living in Virginia with his family and I was still up here, but we always stayed in touch. We played tabletop gaming, war games. CASSELL: Oh, really? Any favorites? TRIMPE: Well, he was a Civil War re-enactor. You know, it’s quite a commitment, actually. It’s almost like being in the military, because they have meetings and you have uniforms and you have to buy all your own stuff, and you join a unit, just like you would have at the time. If you were from New York, you’d be in a New York unit. If you were from Virginia, you’d be in a Virginia unit. It kind of works the same way, depending on what state you’re in. So he was a member of a Virginia unit and my nephew Mark was, too. My nephew’s still doing it. He’s a big Civil War buff. I never saw any of the re-enactments, but I saw plenty of the people, a lot of the friends that were involved in it, and actually got to shoot some of those guns, like a rifle musket and a cap-and-ball pistol. CASSELL: Oh, wow. So, what was it like shooting one? TRIMPE: A black powder pistol is big, it’s heavy, and it makes a cloud of smoke every time it fires that obscures everything within ten feet. [Dewey laughs] Not to mention the noise. It’s hard to believe. And also, since the barrels of the pistols were unrifled, it was like throwing a knuckleball. There was no direction on the ball when it came out, so it could do anything. It could go up, it could go down. He put up a board in his back yard that was maybe ten inches wide and two feet high. He just propped it up against a tree and I stood maybe 25 feet away from it and couldn’t hit it. [mutual laughter] They were only really effective at practically point-blank range. An unrifled musket is about the same thing, except you’ve got the length of the barrel, so you’ve got a little more positive direction. That’s why they shot in blocks of a hundred or 200 people at a time, so you would hit something. A musket is not rapid-fire, but you can really hit something. There’s a famous story in the Civil War where a sniper studied the movements of one of the Union generals during the war. He just sat in a tree for a week and watched what this guy did in his camp through binoculars.

“Happy” Herb Trimpe On His Years With Marvel Comics—And The Incredible Hulk

A Family Album: The Next Generation (Or Two) (Above left:) Herb’s oldest daughter Melissa—a pic taken in 1978, when she was a teenager.

TRIMPE: Melissa was the only child from my first wife. Melissa is married to a jazz vocalist and is 48. Alex, Amelia, and Sarah, are 40, 37, and 35. Their mom is Linda Fite, who worked for Marvel and wrote The Cat. Natalia, my step-daughter, is 24.

(Above right:) Herb with his kids Amelia, Alex, and “pilot” Sarah. (Inset, far right: Their mother, Linda Fite, Herb’s second wife; taken at a New York comics convention in 2001. Linda was a Marvel staffer and writer in the late ’60s and early ’70s.) (Center:) His present-day wife Patricia and daughter Natalie.

And he got his routine down; coming out of the tent, going over to the tree, putting up the mirror, shaving, rinsing his face, going back in the tent. Every day he did it, same time every day. He had a rifle musket with a sniper scope on it and he shot and killed this general a mile away. That’s pretty amazing. That’s counting for windage and everything. CASSELL: So what did Mike do for a living? TRIMPE: He had a commercial studio, and at one point he had three people working for him, and they did everything. This was in Charlottesville [Virginia]. He did work out of Washington, out of Richmond, then some places in Charlottesville. He was like a little production/ad agency. They put together brochures and catalogs, and he did illustration and the whole nine yards. He did fairly well. There were ups and downs, there were points where he was doing it all himself, and then he finally could hire somebody back again. That kind of life is not easy, but he started it here in New York state, working for a guy in a studio over in Mount Kisco, I think it was. When he decided he had enough of New York state taxes and moved to Virginia, he set up a studio in Charlottesville. And then, eventually, he rented space in town, had a great little art studio there. Actually, I’ve drawn comic pages in there on visits. CASSELL: How many kids do you have, and how old are they?

”I Strictly Inked Backgrounds [For Tom Gill]” CASSELL: Where did you go to school? TRIMPE: I lived in Peekskill until I graduated from high school, and then I lived in New York for a little while. I went to The School of Visual Arts for three years, mostly interested in courses in cartooning and “the strip and continuing art,” as they called it then. And unfortunately—or fortunately—the school is changing its format from strictly cartooning and illustration to a fine-art school that is a huge accredited college now. It was just a hole in the wall on First Avenue and (I think) 23rd Street, and the building was probably a firetrap. The floors creaked, the walls seemed shaky, [laughs] it was an amazing piece of work. I think that building is long gone by now. I spent three years there. I worked with one of the instructors at The School of Visual Arts after I graduated from there—Tom Gill. CASSELL: What kinds of things did you do for Tom Gill? TRIMPE: I strictly inked backgrounds. I didn’t do any penciling whatsoever. He had a right-hand man working for him and another guy in Long Island. We used to get together down there and have a pretty good time. I usually brought the work home, but the pages would be all lettered, with all the foregrounds, figures, and so on, inked. I think his partner Bernie did most of the penciling and Tom finished off the figures in inking and I finished off the backgrounds in inking. That’s really all I did. He was working for Gold Key at the time and it was mostly the Western stuff, Bonanza and Lone Ranger and Tonto.

“Super-Heroes Are So Damned Boring!”

Occasionally, they would do some movie adaptations. I think we did 20,000 Leagues under the Sea or Journey to the Center of the Earth or maybe both. He used to get those kinds of movie adaptations that Gold Key would pick up. But I never really went beyond inking backgrounds. It was very limited and a very low-paying kind of thing to do, but I’d make a trip down there and pick up the pages and take them home and work on them for a week and then bring them back. It was in Rockville Centre, Long Island. It’s about a two-hour drive. CASSELL: What kind of reference did Tom have to work with in doing the Gold Key comics? TRIMPE: He had movie stills. He had stills from all those TV shows, stacks and stacks of 8½” by 11” glossies on all that stuff. Complete runs of stills that had been taken for an entire show. But you couldn’t lay out a story with just the stills alone. He didn’t copy the photos, but the reference was extremely thorough. CASSELL: How long did you stay with Tom Gill? TRIMPE: I inked backgrounds for about a year. I did that, actually, until my draft number came up, and then I enlisted in the Air Force. CASSELL: Why did you choose the Air Force?

Mysterious Inking Tom Gill (top of page), around the time Herb Trimpe worked for him— and a pair of splash pages on which our interviewee may have labored as a young man: Dell/Western’s Jules Verne’s Mysterious Island #1213 (1961), in the Four Color series, based actually on the Ray Harryhausen film... and a story from Boris Karloff Thriller #2 (Jan. 1963). Herb probably inked backgrounds on one or both of these—indeed, the Grand Comics Database credits him with inking both—but of course not even Gill (or the scripters) received a byline. We now know, thanks to Robin Snyder’s magazine The Comics!, that Paul S. Newman wrote the latter. Thanks to Michael T. Gilbert for the scans. [© the respective copyright holders.]

TRIMPE: Back then, the military draft was on, and every male eighteen and over had to consider that in the early 1960s, in making their plans. This thing in Vietnam was starting to get complicated. So it was pretty much an accepted thing at that point: you could either go to Canada, or get a college deferment, or just dive in and enlist. I had friends that were in ROTC in college, but I was past that at that point. When my number was coming up for the draft board, I made a preemptive strike and enlisted for four years in the Air Force. So I gave up two years in the Army for four years in the Air Force, thinking I was outsmarting the draft somehow. As it turned out, I spent six months in basic training and then training as a weather observer between Lackland Air Force Base in San Antonio, Texas and then up to Chanute Air Force Base in Illinois, where I went through almost a six-month period in Weather School. I became a weatherman.

“Happy” Herb Trimpe On His Years With Marvel Comics—And The Incredible Hulk

After six months in the Air Force, I was promptly assigned to an Army detachment at Fort Benning, Georgia, and I spent the rest of the next 3½ years basically in the Army anyway. [laughs] That didn’t work out so well, especially since we were attached to the 11th Air Assault Battalion Experimental unit, which became the 1st Air Calvary Division. And when they went to Vietnam in ‘65, we went with them. So I spent a year in the Central Highlands of South Vietnam and we pretty much worked shift work and fed weather [information] to Army aviators, of which there were probably more than there were in the Air Force at that time because helicopters were a very large part of the Army. We fed pilots weather information on various operations that they carried out in the field. Sometimes, we went into a landing zone and fed them weather information before they came in, so they wouldn’t get any surprises in terms of winds or humidity levels. After that year was up, I was at the end of the tour, so I came back to San Francisco, and then back to New York eventually.

“Let Sol Brodsky Take A Look At It” CASSELL: When you were going to The School of Visual Arts, was it your intent that you would go into comic books, or did you have something else in mind? TRIMPE: My interest was always comics. I can’t remember what it was called, but when I was ten, I did several installments of a baseball strip and I colored it with crayons. I didn’t really buy comics except occasionally; they were usually something Disney. But I had two cousins—they were on opposite ends of the pole in terms of their interests, but they both had stacks of comics and Big Little Books. One of them lived near where I went to junior high school, and I used to have lunch at his house and we’d pore over the comics while we were eating peanut butter and jelly sandwiches that my aunt made and glasses of milk and chocolate chip cookies. School was about a block and a half away, so that was easy. I had some interest in comics, but it wasn’t really until I stumbled across one of my high school buddies from 10th grade who was an EC fan. He bought the 10¢ ECs and he had the Mads from the time they went from comics to the 25¢ issues, and that got me. To this day, I think what EC was doing is what a comic book is all about. After Superman or Batman, those originals—what can you really do after that? You’re really just fooling around with the same formula. You’re changing the colors and you might be altering the powers here and there, but super-heroes are so damn boring! I can’t believe they actually caught on to the degree that they have, especially going as far as the Hollywood blockbuster movies. It just shows you how wrong I have been in making judgments about certain things like that. [Dewey chuckles] CASSELL: So you were a big EC fan? TRIMPE: EC was it for me. None of this continuing story or continuing thread. It was just plain five-, six-, seven-page length stories, right to the point, two or three of those between the covers. To me, it was just the best,

You’re In The Air Force Now—Or Are You? Herb in a Jeep “about to head out”—juxtaposed with two drawings he did while in the Air Force but largely attached to the Army, as he details: one of a “night light” in his tent, the other showing antennae atop Hon Kong Mountain in Vietnam, with “condos” seen below. Thanks to HT. [Art © Herb Trimpe.]

especially Aces High and some of the war titles that guys like John Severin were working on. I was much more aware of the EC line of comics and artists. I wouldn’t have known Stan Lee if I tripped over him in an alley. I had no knowledge of anything that went on at Marvel. It wasn’t until my last year in the Air Force, when I was 26 years old, that the mom of one of my buddies in Vietnam, sent him a Care package, and in it were some comics. One of them was a Thor, and that’s the first Marvel comic I had ever laid eyes on in my entire life. I didn’t pay attention to the names, but now I know, just chronologically, that it would have been written by Stan, and I still remember the inking style. It was Vinnie Colletta, no question, and penciled by Jack Kirby. I thumbed through it, and [then] I actually read it, and I thought, “This is pretty cool. This is quite a nice slant on the kind of Superman and Wonder Woman thing. This is really refreshing.” So, that kind of got me interested. CASSELL: How did you get the job at Marvel?

Sol Brodsky, from the 1969 Fantastic Four Annual. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

TRIMPE: A friend of mine from The School of Visual Arts, John Verpoorten, was working at Marvel. I’d known him before—in fact, when I left Tom Gill to enlist, he took over and started working for Tom himself. By the time I got back, he had wound up at Marvel as

“Super-Heroes Are So Damned Boring!”

Just Kid-ing! Last issue, in conjunction with our interview with writer Denny O’Neil, we printed the splash page of Trimpe’s first Marvel art job—“Shoot-Out at Hooker Flat” from Kid Colt Outlaw #134 (May 1967). This time, we’re showcasing that issue’s cover, done by Herb (a vote of confidence from Stan Lee?)—and two of his pages from that story. The first sequence shows him working hard on getting the Kirby action feel down pat; the second displays an ambitious attempt at an overhead shot. Thanks to Nick Caputo. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Happy” Herb Trimpe On His Years With Marvel Comics—And The Incredible Hulk

Dick Ayers—from the Famous Comic Book Creators card set produced by Eclipse in the 1980s.

Still Kid-ing Around! The next issue, #135 (July ’67), Trimpe drew the cover and two “Kid Colt” stories, scripted respectively by Sol Brodsky and Denny O’Neil. Meanwhile, Marvel reached the final issue of its quasi-revival of Magazine Enterprises’ Ghost Rider, with HT inking Dick Ayers’ pencils for Gary Friedrich’s story for #7 (Nov. ’67). Thanks to Nick Caputo for these splashes, and to the Grand Comics Database for the cover scans on this and the preceding page—as well as numerous other images accompanying this interview. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Super-Heroes Are So Damned Boring!”

the production chief. [A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: Actually, in the late 1960s, Sol Brodsky was still production manager, with John Verpoorten as his principal assistant until Brodsky left to co-found Skywald in 1970.] I did take some samples up to DC, but I didn’t have anything current. It was all stuff I’d done in art school or done for fun. So, I got talking to Verpoorten, and he said, “You should bring whatever you’ve got up to the office and let Sol Brodsky take a look at it,” because Sol was screening incoming artists, of which there weren’t very many, I can tell you. It wasn’t like now. CASSELL: What was your first assignment at Marvel? TRIMPE: When I brought my work up and Sol Brodsky looked at it, I immediately got work inking Westerns freelance—Kid Colt, Rawhide Kid, Two-Gun Kid—and that worked out good. CASSELL: Do you think Stan had you ink Westerns as a try-out for penciling work? TRIMPE: I don’t think he saw inking as a lesser form of the artwork where you could take an amateur and have them do it, since inking takes quite a bit of expertise in itself. But, saying that, I did start out inking Westerns at Marvel over top of Werner Roth and Larry Lieber and guys like that. I think I inked some of Dick [Ayers]’s stuff and it was quite enjoyable. So I don’t know if that was by design or just because they needed inkers on the work, because the number of Western titles was quite extensive in the mid-’60s. There were [several] Westerns out of less than twenty

Here’s Looking At You Again, Kid! From time to time, Trimpe would return to Westerns, if only to draw covers for comics that were often all-reprint, as per the original art for that of KCO #155 (Sept. 1971)—or for a commission illo, as per this rousing trio of Kid Colt, Ringo Kid, and Rawhide Kid. Courtesy of Jeff Jaworski & Michael Dunne, respectively. [© Marvel Characters.]

“Happy” Herb Trimpe On His Years With Marvel Comics—And The Incredible Hulk

Those Magnificent Men And Herb’s Flying Machine (Above:) Sooner or later, everybody got a look at Herb’s biplane! Seen at left is artist & production man John Verpoorten (pre-mustache); at far right is their friend and one-time fellow art student Stu Schwartzberg, later a writer and artist for Marvel parody mags. The other gents are unidentified, though Herb himself is probably one of those in the background. Pic courtesy of mutual friend Bill Peckmann. (Right:) Another machine of passing importance to Herb: Marvel’s 1970s Photostat machine, of which he became the first staff operator. (Schwartzberg was the second.) Photo taken by Robert Policastro in 1971.

overall titles. When you included the romance magazines, they took up quite a percentage of the total output of titles in the mid’60s. And they were good books to work on, too. CASSELL: I heard that at one point you ran the Photostat machine. TRIMPE: I got a call from Sol one day and he said, “We’re not going to send galleys out to copy anymore. We’re going to do all that stuff in-house and we’re getting this big photographic device that we can shoot text or pictures on.” This was when cut-andpaste was actually cut-and-paste. And it was about eight feet long and it had a bed to put the work on, and a huge adjustable camera, and you could feed the paper right into a developer and then a fixer and then into a dryer. And he said, “We need somebody to operate that—there’s a technician coming in from the company— would you like to take the job?” And I said, “Sure, it sounds good. I’ll do that.” So that’s when I started working for $130 a week, and I did that for maybe six months. CASSELL: Did you continue to do any artwork? TRIMPE: During that time, I did ink some Westerns on the side, and then I did “The Phantom Eagle” with Gary Friedrich and some other odds and ends. CASSELL: Did you enjoy doing the Westerns? TRIMPE: Yeah, because I liked Western comics. Actually, I think the first full-length story I did was “Shoot-Out at Hooker Flat.” It was in a Kid Colt comic. [INTERVIEWER’S NOTE: Kid Colt Outlaw #134, May 1967.] CASSELL: Did you have reference for what horses looked like or different styles of guns? TRIMPE: I made ‘em up. I made horses up. [Dewey laughs] I draw terrible horses. I didn’t really use photos much. That might have been one of Jack’s influences, because Jack just made everything up out of whole cloth. He just invented it, and I think I was doing the

same thing. And we were asked to look at Jack. Not so much “draw like Kirby”—that wasn’t it. A lot of people voluntarily drew like Kirby, like Barry Smith had a strong Kirby [influence] in the beginning, as did Jim Steranko, but they both took it one step further. They both went into their own realm after a while, and they were both unique and unusual because of that. Me? I didn’t know where the hell I was going.

“[Stan Lee] Saw The Big Picture” CASSELL: What other artists were working at Marvel at the time? TRIMPE: Most of the guys in place were a generation before me, and they were solid craftsmen. When I came into Marvel, I had to squeeze in between guys like Romita, Colan, Kirby, John Buscema, Don Heck, Bill Everett. These guys were excellent artists. They had grace and style. Inkers like Sinnott and Giacoia—nobody can do that today. Nobody knows that kind of brushwork and the kind of things they did with ease, it seemed. It was magnificent-looking art. If you see an original Buscema page, it’s just astounding work. It’s incredible. So when I was coming in, I was the piker of the bunch. I came on around the same time Barry Smith came in and shortly after (or maybe before) Jim Steranko. We were the more-orless contemporaries in the ’60s. Of course, I couldn’t draw anywhere near any of them. CASSELL: What was it like working with Stan Lee? TRIMPE: I was an excellent storyteller, and I think that’s what sold Stan. Because Stan’s genius—never mind the dispute between characters and who created what—his revelation to comics was having the artists visualize the story. I heard him say early in the game that it’s primarily a visual medium. And this was coming out of a writer’s mouth, mind you. So Stan was not a small guy. He saw the big picture. He realized that if you didn’t have the story, you didn’t have really anything. I was still drawing in the Jack Davis style when I got to Marvel. Stan put his foot down on that immediately. No more nine panels on a page, and scritchy-scratchy cross-hatching. Jack Davis’ stuff is fantastic, but he had this cartoony adventure style, and there just wasn’t any room for that at Marvel. They were deep into the super-hero genre, and rightly so for the time, because it was exploding.

“Super-Heroes Are So Damned Boring!”

Marvel was well on its way to overtaking the #1 company at the time, DC. They were like the “little brother” or the black sheep of the comic world. But Stan had this brilliant idea of throwing the storytelling into the artists’ lap. First of all, for the guy drawing the book, it’s the most fun. I know a lot of guys worked from full scripts, but I know they were all happy to latch on to the lead that Stan was taking. Giving the artist the freedom to direct is really what it was. Even though the writer may have come up with the plot, as in a movie where the writer comes up with a script or a plot, the director is the one that tells the story and they’re usually the ones whose name is the biggest on the screen, and that’s what we were given. Some people don’t consider it a privilege. They think we should have got paid more money for it, [chuckles] but I wasn’t thinking about the money at the time. I was already making more money than I ever made in my life, starting at $135 a week, and within a few months, I was making $200 a week, so I wasn’t complaining. To have that option, to be able to tell the story, pace it, decide panel size, panel spacing on the page; to me, that was the most fun of all and I was a natural at it. I just fell right into it. CASSELL: When you were working with Stan, did you have story conferences where he would talk about what he was looking for? TRIMPE: They were the first months at Marvel, before he started to slide more of the work over in Roy’s direction. Because Stan was writing all the books when I came on, or Roy might have just been hired and was starting to pick up a lot of the slack on those books, because Stan was going crazy. [chuckles] That’s a hell of thing to have to do, write all that stuff in one month. But anyway, we did the story conferences in his office. Nothing written down, just [talking it over with] Stan. That was the way it worked. The only thing written down was what I wrote down after the conference. When I sat back down at my desk, I threw together what we had talked about, and then structured 20 pages or 18 pages, whatever it was, of artwork out of that. It might be ten sentences of plot, and I would take that and flesh the whole thing out into a story. I got to fill in a lot of intermediate action to bridge the story. Stan saw the artist as the visualizer and the pacer of the story. There is an interview with him for the London show last year [2012] on their website, and he said right there that he hired artists that could tell stories. He makes jokes about it: “because I was trying to get out of the work.” Even with Roy, I don’t think I ever got a written plot. Since I was in the office at the time, he’d just come in and sit down and we’d discuss the plot and I’d write down what I remembered and evolve a story around it. The artists are the people who are drawing the pictures, and a comic book is primarily pictures with the story in support of it. Because if you don’t tell the story in the pictures, there’s no way you’re going to make it up in the dialogue. CASSELL: It was certainly a novel approach. TRIMPE: Keep in mind that Stan’s a writer. Most writers that I

Wanted: An Inker (Above:) In the early days, Trimpe also did a bit of inking of others’ work. On this dynamic page, he’s inking X-Men artist Werner Roth in Kid Colt Outlaw #138 (Jan. 1968); script by Denny O’Neil. “The End of an Outlaw!” turned out to be somewhat prophetic, since the mag became mostly a reprint book after this. Herb told supplier Nick Caputo that Roth was very easy to ink, since everything was there in the pencils. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.] (Left:) Marvel editor Stan Lee, in a photo from the 1966-68 period. Thanks to Sean Howe. [© the respective copyright holders.]

know wouldn’t make that concession if you had a gun put to their head, because they want the recognition and the power. They want to be the controllers of the story. There are a few people who visualize very well and they can hand you a script and it makes sense. Larry Hama’s a good example, because he can draw. When I got scripts from him for G.I. Joe, it was a breeze. But if you get a finished script from a writer, and especially if you’ve already established your own ability to tell a story, now it’s costing you more time and work. You have to analyze that script, seeing it through the writer’s eyes, then reinterpret it so you can tell the story in a way that you’re comfortable with. It’s a pain in the a**, [Dewey chuckles] and it also goes against my original concept of comic books as we practiced when I was in art school, and that was as a comic strip artist—creating, writing, drawing, and inking your own stories. To me, that was what a comic book artist was. There is something interesting, but insulting, [laughs] about the nature of

“Happy” Herb Trimpe On His Years With Marvel Comics—And The Incredible Hulk

Barbarian At the Gates John Romita’s photo card from Eclipse’s 1992 Famous Comic Book Creators series— and the cover of Conan the Barbarian #33 (Dec. 1973), which was a collaboration between Romita and Trimpe. Both men reportedly worked on both pencils and inks, so we won’t attempt to figure out precisely who did what! Since they were working in the same room at the Marvel offices, they probably passed the art back and forth. [Card © the respective copyright holders; Conan cover © Conan Properties International, LLD.]

breaking the comic book—the presentation, the format—down into separate assembly lines. But for me, following a complete script was a nightmare. It slowed me down. CASSELL: How big were the Marvel offices at the time? TRIMPE: Small. [mutual chuckling] As you’d come off the elevator, turn left, and go in the door, to your right would be the receptionist. And you’d walk straight down the hall and the first right was the Bullpen. I was in the Bullpen with John Romita, Marie Severin, and Tony Mortellaro primarily. An extra-desk artist would come in sometimes. Like John, I was in one corner. They were partitioned with the low partitions like you see in the offices, a wall up to your waist or higher, and then a glass on top of that that you can’t see through. And I’d say the area we were in was at the biggest, 12 feet by 14, something like that. That was on one side of the hall. The other part, across the hall, was elongated. That was where Morrie Kuramoto was, who was a letterer, and another production assistant. But that place was not deep—it was as long as ours, but it wasn’t as wide. There was a doorway in back that was where the camera was, and that’s when the third person from School of Visual Arts came in, Stu Schwartzberg. Both John Verpoorten and I hung out with Stu. He took over my job in the copying and the

Girls, Girls, Girls Marie Severin, as per that same card series—and the office cartoon (circa early 1970s) she did of Herb Trimpe and his, er, admirers. Herb claims not to have noticed this going on. [Card © the respective copyright holders; cartoon © Marie Severin.]

“Super-Heroes Are So Damned Boring!”

stat room. That was a full wall because you had to have darkroom conditions in there when you were developing stuff, since the pans were out in the open on this machine. The fixer bath and the developer bath were both large trays, end-to-end, behind the camera. We had to have it totally dark in there except for a red light. And if you kept walking down the hall, past those two entrances, you’d go straight into Stan’s office. John Verpoorten was to the left in the production department, where they did all the schedules and piled all the returned artwork. And I think Sol Brodsky was off to the right. [chuckles] So it was very small. The last Bullpen I saw at Marvel, when I was in there at some sad point back in the ‘90s, the Bullpen area was huge. It was like a classroomsized room. CASSELL: There is a Marie Severin cartoon of you that shows a bunch of women from the Marvel Bullpen fawning over you. Any truth to that characterization? TRIMPE: Maybe she was noticing something that I didn’t see. I’m wondering how you came upon that one. I have a bunch of drawings she did, but I’m not sure where they are. Quick brush sketches on newsprint or scrap paper. I believe I was the primary target for her quick wit and incisive drawings. I have offered in the past to return them to her, but she only wanted me to send copies. That’s Marie. CASSELL: Was Marvel a good company to work for? TRIMPE: When I started working there, it was a mom-and-pop organization, basically. It was in the days when Martin Goodman and Stan were still in charge. Martin Goodman was the publisher of Magazine Management, of which Marvel was only one of the divisions. They had several things that they did, pulp magazines and so on. And in those days, I went in and I told Stan I needed an advance on my salary. “I need about eight hundred bucks.” And he said, “Let me talk to Martin.” [mutual chuckling] So he came back with a check for $800, no interest, taken out of my salary a little bit at a time. CASSELL: Wow. That’s amazing. TRIMPE: That’s the kind of company it was—unheard of by today’s standards. And it was the [late] 1960s. It was like the 1920s, when you used to go to a bank and tell the banker, “Hey, we’re busted and I need a break on the mortgage.” And he says, “Sure, Harry. No problem.” [chuckles] It was that kind of thing. It doesn’t exist anymore. Of course, comics are very big for their britches now. Everybody thinks they’re very important. When I got worried about stuff, [editor] Tom DeFalco always used to say, “Herb, it’s only a comic. We’re supposed to be having fun. If we’re not having fun, what’s the point?” That’s my attitude about the whole thing. And of course I am totally lost in the shuffle because of that. CASSELL: So back in those early days, where was Martin Goodman? TRIMPE: When I started working there [at Marvel], our offices were separate from Martin Goodman’s office and the rest of Magazine Management. He was actually across the street in another building. He was a good guy. He was like the old-time publisher type. And his son Chip worked for him, also. I don’t know what he would be up to now, but he’d probably be my age or almost my age. Chip Goodman was a good guy. He was kind of a novice, though. He didn’t want to be a hard-ass. He was always pleasant, but a lot of stuff was being delegated to him from Martin’s point of view, by the time I was doing the inking. Then, when I was

actually hired on, we were not there anymore. We were in the other offices. [A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: Sadly, Chip Goodman died in 1996.] CASSELL: I know that Marie Severin and others did some illustrations that were used in the men’s magazines that Martin Goodman published.

A Chip Off The Old Block This photo of Martin Goodman (on right) and son Charles “Chip” Goodman first appeared in Adam Parfray’s 2003 book It’s a Man’s World. It was taken at a 1966 party given for Magazine Management editor Bruce Jay Friedman when he left the company to pursue a successful novel- and screenwriting future. [© the respective copyright holders.]

TRIMPE: Well, they went even further than that. When they did Confidential Romances and Strange Detective Stories or whatever the hell they were doing there, [chuckles] all these pulp titles, they used to take our pictures. They used employees’ photos to be the axe killer, to be the cop that made the arrest, to be the wife of the victim—we were the characters in those stories. That would be people in the office that they were taking pictures of.

“I Have A Pilot’s License, You Know” CASSELL: You mentioned earlier “The Phantom Eagle.” How did you get that assignment? TRIMPE: Well, I have a pilot’s license, you know. Back in my mid30s, I was living in England and did Iron Man and gave up The [Incredible] Hulk. During that period, I was also taking flying lessons and I got a license in England. When I came back, thanks to a reciprocal agreement they have between countries, I was able to convert it over to a U.S. license without having to take a test again. I bought an airplane eventually and flew it for 14 or 15 years. It was actually a World War II Army trainer. It was called a primary trainer, a PT. It was a PT-17. It was actually built by Boeing, taken over from the Stearman Company in the ‘30s when they went out of business. It was never referred to as a Boeing, though; it was always referred to as a Stearman. So Boeing manufactured these things for the Army, the Navy, and the Air Force, and they were used to give pilots their first 60 hours of flight training. After the war, they were sold off at very cheap prices. A full tank of gas and five hundred bucks, take it away. Otherwise, they were going to burn them up. A lot of them were sucked up by the agricultural business—the [crop] dusters and sprayers of the world bought these airplanes and converted them. It was a two-seat airplane—a biplane—and the student would sit in the rear cockpit, instructor in the front, and communicate via hand signs, or there was a mirror on the upper wing where the instructor could see your face in the back and determine whether you were getting ready to jump or something. But there were no radios. It was all done through gossports, which was a rubber tube and a funnel thing that looked like you measure stuff with. [chuckles] The ends were plugged into your helmet and you talked to each other through this rubber hose, and that’s the way they trained combat pilots in World War II with this airplane. Then when they went over to dusters, they sealed over the front cockpit, put a tank up there for chemicals, put spray lines

“Happy” Herb Trimpe On His Years With Marvel Comics—And The Incredible Hulk

and his dad and Bob Layton for rides. They came up to where I was keeping it in a hanger. I took these guys for rides on a day where there was a storm moving in, and the wind was so bad that we actually had to get on the ground at one point and get it in the hanger before we got blown away. But Shooter still remembers that and he was kind of overjoyed by the whole thing. [laughs] So it was a well-known fact, me and this airplane. So, about Marvel Super-Heroes, Gary says, “I want to submit a story. I’ve got this character, The Phantom Eagle. It [was the name of] an out-ofcopyright character that they did back in the ‘40s and so we can use it.” So he plotted a story and I designed the character, which nobody remembers, although I actually have gotten one or two commissions for The Phantom Eagle. I have to say that what I’d like to do is redraw it. I know [Howard] Chaykin and somebody else did it a couple years ago. It just didn’t have the same flavor and they tried to dull it down a bit, and get rid of the colors. This because a super-hero World War I pilot isn’t just ridiculous to begin with. [chuckles] But I would love to redraw that first issue.

along the bottom wings, and they were used to dust crops all over, mostly in the U.S. And then came a time in which they were gradually of interest again. They were no longer obsolete airplanes. Suddenly, they became antiques, so a lot of them were converted back to civilian use and that’s what I got. I got one that was a duster and a sprayer. It was converted back to civilian use. It had a blue fuselage with yellow wings and yellow tail surfaces, with a 220-horsepower Continental radial engine. It was very dependable and basically used as a sports plane and we had a ball. I had a very good time with that for quite a while. So everybody knew that. I think [Jim] Shooter’s got a thing on his [web]site about the time I took him

Fly Like An Eagle Herb and his PT-17 (top left) and writer Gary Friedrich (left)—flanking the cover and an action page from their “Phantom Eagle” tale in Marvel Super-Heroes #16 (Sept. 1968). Thanks to Bill Peckmann for the Trimpe photo, and to Dewey Cassell for the comics scans. The Friedrich photo is from the 1969 Fantastic Four Annual #7. This story was reprinted in the hardcover Marvel Masterworks: The Incredible Hulk, Vol. 7. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Super-Heroes Are So Damned Boring!”

That would be a fun thing to do, because there’s a lot of it I wouldn’t touch that looks good to me. But the rest of it gets so wooden and stiff after a while. I don’t know if it was the deadline, I guess I was trying too hard or something. At any rate, except for the more recent, latter-day version, it was a one-off and, unfortunately, it didn’t turn out like Wolverine did as a one-off. [chuckles] CASSELL: I thought it was well done. Why do you think it didn’t catch on? TRIMPE: Aviation just doesn’t work in comics. For me, it did with EC and the aviation stuff that George Evans and Jack Davis and Wally Wood did. Oh, Wally’s airplanes were pretty weird, but Jack Davis did great stories. I wouldn’t mind doing a war story, actually. That would be kind of fun, but it’s not politically correct anymore, I guess, to do that kind of thing, CASSELL: Yeah, that’s true. TRIMPE: Even though it’s more and more politically correct to fight wars. They just don’t want kids reading war comics. They want it to be a surprise. [chuckles] So when they turn eighteen and the recruiter comes around

Into The Wild Green Yonder (Above:) Herb was itching to draw The Phantom Eagle again, so writer/de facto editor Roy Thomas happily obliged him in the time-travel story in The Incredible Hulk #135 (Jan. 1971). This is the closest the masked World War I aviator and Ol’ Greenskin ever get to actually meeting in the story, whose villain was Kang the Conqueror. Inks by Sal Buscema. Thanks to Barry Pearl for the scan. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

The Eagle Has Landed! (Right:) One-time acclaimed EC artist Jack Davis, in a photo appearing in one of that company’s early-1950s comics— and (far right) a color illo he did two decades later of Trimpe & Friedrich’s Phantom Eagle as a gift for Herb, as arranged by his buddies Bill Peckmann and John Verpoorten. [Photo © William M. Gaines, Agent; Phantom Eagle TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Happy” Herb Trimpe On His Years With Marvel Comics—And The Incredible Hulk

to the high school, it’s all new to them by that time.

“Hey, Trimpe… You Want To Draw The Hulk?” CASSELL: How did you get involved with the Hulk? TRIMPE: I inked a couple of “Hulk” stories in Tales to Astonish that Marie Severin did. And then, for some reason, Marie went on to bigger and better things. Stan had other plans for her. I don’t know if he wanted her to do more coloring or what, but I had been working in the production department for about six months—and doing freelance on the side, which included the infamous “Phantom Eagle”—and he stuck his head in my cubicle one day and said, “Hey, Trimpe… you want to draw The Hulk?” I said, “Oh, okay.” To me, it was more of a steady gig. CASSELL: When you started inking The Incredible Hulk over Marie’s pencils, did you have any inkling that they were going to want you to take over the book? TRIMPE: Well, no. I do think that the inking I did on that was really building a foundation for going further, although, at the time, I had no idea how long that would be. We just didn’t think in those terms. It was just, “Oh, it was a job? Okay. What’s next?”

Take Me To Your Leader! (Above:) Stan Lee and Herb Trimpe worked in tandem on The Incredible Hulk #115 (May 1969). Thanks to Dewey Cassell. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

CASSELL: How was it picking up where Marie left off? TRIMPE: I don’t think I ever had a serious hitch except when I started penciling The Hulk. There was a little transition period when I was doing layouts, and I was kind of falling into the EC style. I did about four pages and showed them to Stan and he said, “Ehhh, let me get Frank [Giacoia] to lay this out and you follow that. And that’s the way I want you to do it from now on.” So I said okay. I tore up the pages and I threw them in the trash, right in the Bullpen, and Frank laid out the story. I followed Frank’s lead and I tightened it and it was fine. But the first complete issue that I penciled was laid out by Frank Giacoia, who, of course, was an inker. That was [The Incredible] Hulk #109. These were the days when inkers were first-rate pencilers. They pretty much are today, too, but he was an excellent penciler, as is Joe Sinnott. And I kind of got it right away.

Herby In The Middle (Above:) Trimpe’s first brush with The Incredible Hulk occurred in issue #106 (Aug. 1968), when he finished up breakdowns by then-regular penciler Marie Severin, which were then inked by George Tuska. Contrary to the conversation between himself and Dewey Cassell, however, Herb never inked any “Hulk” stories penciled by Marie, so he was probably thinking of this one-shot assignment. The splash page was scripted by Archie Goodwin. Thanks to Stephen Moore. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Stan had no complaints and from that point on, never really said anything about any layouts or storytelling again. He asked me a couple of times when I was going to learn to draw [mutual laughter], but other than that, there was no real critical discussion as to the content that I was doing. I was trying to follow Marie’s Hulk, and I think I eventually got around to it after a year or so. Stan was absolutely correct, but in retrospect now, I’m looking at that stuff and it has a quaint quality to it that I think a lot of the fans liked, because they still continue to ask for signings and pictures and drawings, and the collectors seemed to have maintained an interest.

“Super-Heroes Are So Damned Boring!”

CASSELL: When you started working on The Hulk, were you still doing some production work as well? TRIMPE: Yeah, I was on staff. I did production work plus inking, plus I started penciling The Hulk while I was on staff. I was getting a flat salary, plus extra for the work that I was doing freelance that went over the amount of salary that I was getting. If I exceeded that, anything on the side, I could voucher for it. Say, if I was making $200 a week and I was getting $50 a page, I would only need to do four pages a week to justify the two hundred. But of course that’s not nearly enough to match the schedule, so if you were doing ten pages a week, those other six pages would be freelance and could be vouchered, so it was a good deal. It’s kind of like overtime. Obviously, the faster you were, the more pages you turned in, the more money you were going to make.

your quota, as well? TRIMPE: Yeah, that worked. I had an inking rate. I could apply the inking to the quota, or once the quota was matched, I could apply it to freelance and voucher it. It was an interesting way to work. CASSELL: When did you start working at home? TRIMPE: I worked in the office for six months maybe, probably not more than a year, after I started The Hulk. Actually, if I looked at the issues, I might be able to tell. I was inking Marie in the beginning and it was not unusual that if I were working on that stuff in the office, I would very likely take it home on a weekend or an evening, and work there also, so it was a mix of things that were going on at that time. It was pretty active in the Bullpen. There were a total of maybe ten or twelve people in the entire office, and it got pretty hectic. It was hard to draw, and so one day, Stan said, “Well, why don’t you just work at home?” So I said okay. I stared working in the city, in my apartment, but as if I were still going into the office. And I was still getting paid exactly the same way. Now I was working at home, under the same conditions, basically getting a page rate that matched my salary.

I was working that way practically until I left. I got a check every two weeks. And it was very comfortable, and it was fun, and working in the Bullpen was a blast. I couldn’t wait to get to work every day. At that time, I was living in Peekskill and I was commuting. I hated to commute. I didn’t have the patience for it. So I was glad when I got to the office and I stayed late and we hung around, went over to the bar or whatever, and it was a lot of fun.

CASSELL: Sounds like a great arrangement. A few years later, Marvel changed hands, right?

CASSELL: If you both penciled and inked a story, did that count towards

TRIMPE: Goodman sold Magazine Management. He [later] retired

But Did They Use Green Ink? (Left:) While it’s true that Frank Giacoia did layouts for Herb to pencil over in Hulk #109, that was actually done after two exciting issues that had been penciled by Trimpe himself, beginning with #107 (Sept. 1968); inks by Syd Shores. (Right:) #109 (Nov. ’68) was inked, as #108 had been, by John Severin. Scripts by Gary Friedrich and Stan Lee, respectively. The Trimpe-Severin team would move from triumph to triumph in The Incredible Hulk. Thanks to Barry Pearl for the scans. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Happy” Herb Trimpe On His Years With Marvel Comics—And The Incredible Hulk

and Marvel was taken over by Cadence Corporation. That began our corporate career. And in those days—in the early ’70s— Cadence was a very good corporation. It’s not like today at all, by any stretch. We had full insurance in every area you can name, including psychiatric and dental and eyeglasses and everything else. They had a pension plan that was out of this world. You could put aside as much as 6% of your income and they would add 30% to that. So actually, when I came out of Marvel, I had a pretty good lump sum in my IRA—75% of it was destroyed in the crash beginning 10 or 12 years ago. But I have no complaints. We had benefits and it was like a real job used to be, for a brief period of time. [chuckles] But not anymore. CASSELL: When you first started on the book, why did you try to draw the Hulk like Marie?

was just trying to draw and keep up with what some of these other guys were doing, and failing miserably, in my opinion, most times. But there wasn’t a whole lot of criticism from one artist to another on how they drew the character. Everyone had their own stamp on it and Stan really didn’t have a problem with that, unless it was so far off base, like he had three eyes or something. Other than that, it was pretty much accepted. If you look at the jump from [Steve] Ditko’s Spider-Man to John Romita’s Spider-Man, or even back to Kirby doing Spider-Man, the look of the character is much different. CASSELL: There was a point, after you’d been drawing the title for maybe a year and a half, when you developed a very distinctive style for the Hulk. Did you just evolve into that? TRIMPE: I started out overly simplified. He kind of looked like a great big green dwarf. [Dewey laughs] But

TRIMPE: I had looked at Marie’s pencils and I inked a couple of them, so I just assumed that’s the way the Hulk looked, and I tried to draw the Hulk like Marie did. Actually, I think she was one of the, if not the best Hulk artist. Of course, Kirby basically created the look of the character and you can’t deny that. But I think Marie really launched into the more modern-day Hulk, as far as look and style goes. As for myself, I wasn’t thinking style, I

A Heap Of Trouble For The Hulk Roy Thomas’ first full-issue work on The Incredible Hulk was on #120, dialoguing a story plotted by Stan and Herb. The next month, in #121 (Nov. 1969), he and Trimpe revamped the Golden Age monster The Heap (from Hillman’s Airboy Comics) into what became—The Glob. It pre-dated both Marvel’s Man-Thing and DC’s Swamp Thing. Seen here are an amazingly faithful re-creation of the cover, and a battle page from the actual comic. Thanks to Anthony Snyder and Barry Pearl, respectively. Roy’s photo comes from Eclipse’s Famous Comic Book Creators card series. [Page © Marvel Characters, Inc.; card © the respective copyright holders.]

“Super-Heroes Are So Damned Boring!”

Don’t Harp On It! A commission sketch of The Harpy, a character Herb drew in The Incredible Hulk #168 (Oct. 1973). Thanks to Thomas Suhling. [Harpy TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

after that stage, which were the early ones and probably the ones that people would like to buy, I got better. I got better at the drawing. The change in the look of the character was just a function of the improvement in the drawing, basically. I wasn’t trying to do anything in particular. I never really consciously developed a drawing style, because what I did naturally was very much influenced by EC Comics—little panels, a lot of close-up drama. You never saw a splash or a two-panel page in EC, and that’s pretty much what I leaned towards, sort of a cartoony adventure style like Jack Davis. That was what I liked and I tended to do it more naturally. With the super-heroes, we were drawing more realistic, more illustrative kind of stuff, and it was completely unnatural to me. It still is, you know. CASSELL: Well, you do it very well. [chuckles] TRIMPE: Oh, after years, you get it down. It’s like your signature, you just scrawl it out. [chuckles] But it doesn’t mean that it’s any more exciting or fun to do. It just means you’ve got a formula, which is pretty much what I have now as far as drawing the Hulk or drawing Wolverine goes. CASSELL: Marie commented that she really viewed the Hulk more from the perspective of the monster side, the tragic monster. TRIMPE: Well, she didn’t do it that long, for one thing, so I never thought she had a chance to really evolve in a way that might have been comfortable with her. I think she was actually trying to follow in the Kirby mold in a sense, though the character itself was more

Color Him Colorful! (Left:) Back in A/E #108, we printed one of the three unused cover layouts which Herb generously gave to young pro hopeful Warren Reece circa 1970. Here’s a second one, done in blue pencil for The Incredible Hulk #130 (Aug. ’70). Thanks to Warren for the copy. (Right:) A Trimpe-drawn Hulk print (on green paper) from a bit later, signed by Herb for fans. Thanks to Dewey Cassell. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.] These two drawings flank a freeze-frame from Jon Riley’s documentary Herb Trimpe, We Love You, which was actually filmed in the Marvel offices circa 1970. Hopefully, Dewey Cassell’s upcoming TwoMorrows book on Trimpe’s career will fill you in about this offbeat doc. Thanks to Alan Kupperberg. [© Jon Riley.]

“Happy” Herb Trimpe On His Years With Marvel Comics—And The Incredible Hulk

Len Wein at 1971 New York Comic Art Convention, courtesy of Mike Zeck via Pedro Angosto.

John Severin, from the 1969 Fantastic Four Annual. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

his jaw’s too big for them. His whole physical structure would be totally at odds with each other, as far as the physical growth goes. [chuckles] Truthfully, I never thought of it that way, but I’ve had a lot of dental work done, so I’m kind of tooth-conscious. I’ve had so many root canals, I could actually do one myself. I know the whole procedure. [Dewey laughs] So, yeah, if the guy looks like a brute, then he should have teeth that look like a brute, not like Arnold Schwarzenegger, that goes to some Dentist to the Stars and has everything re-implanted and perfect like some sort of robot or android. That was part of it. The other part was that I always wrestled with his hair. I couldn’t quite ever decide how I wanted the hair to look. I loved Kirby’s hair because it was a little bit of hair on top. I think that was accurate in terms of what the character might look like. CASSELL: I always thought you did a good job with the hair and even with the proportion. One of the things I notice when you see other people drawing the Hulk is that frequently the head is out of proportion to the rest of the body. You always seem to get it right.

TRIMPE: Yeah, it’s ridiculous. There’s something about early cartooning that, if you’re going to show a big, strong guy, the thing to do is give him big thighs, big forearms like Popeye, and definitely a little head, because a little head accentuates the body size. It makes the body look bigger with a smaller head. So they’ve been leaning in that direction and I don’t know why. When Kirby and Lee came up with the character, the Hulk was what he was supposed to be, a distorted human being with an illness, basically, a The Bigger They Are… serious illness that affected growth hormones to the max. So Trimpe put vertical panels to good use in The Incredible Hulk #145 (Nov. 1971), the that’s the way I consciously, or subconsciously, always first issue scripted by Len Wein; page reproduced from the original art, courtesy of thought of the Hulk, that he was a monster. What people in Stephen Moore. Inks by John Severin. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.] the 18th century would have called a monster. But really, a or less her own. She didn’t copy Kirby. There were times in my person who was born deformed would have wished like anything early days when I oscillated between thinking about Marie’s stuff to be like everybody else. That’s the way I saw the Hulk, that’s the and then trying to draw like Kirby’s old Hulk. I was always flipway Roy saw the Hulk, and I think that’s the way Len saw the flopping back and forth, changing the weight of the line on the Hulk. It was an abomination—no pun intended—for the Hulk to inks. It’s a heavy line this month, a thin line the next month, trying be what he was. That’s the human side that he never lost, and to look like John Severin the next month—God, it was exhausting. that’s why there was a theme of pathos and humanity that ran Good thing we had a team in the publishers’ softball league to through the Hulk’s character. relieve some of the tension. I wasn’t into going to the bars there Now I don’t see it that way. I don’t see the humanity in the after work and drinking yet. That stage hadn’t developed. Hulk, especially now. His thighs got really big and his head got CASSELL: One of the things that I liked about your Hulk was that there really small. And every time you see somebody doing a was realism about it. For example, when you drew the Hulk, he didn’t commission, he’s always enraged, crazy enraged. In our stories, a have perfectly straight teeth. good part of the time, he was not enraged. He was stumbling his way through a forest or fishing himself out of the ocean or TRIMPE: Oh, how could he, right? [chuckles] A critter changing wondering what the f*** was going on here. [laughs] from the form of a rather slim and average-sized human being into something eight feet tall and 2,000 pounds? That means he goes It’s not a new theme, the Hulk. It’s the idea of dual personality. through a teething process that by no comparison does a baby go It exists in fiction, it exists in real life, and the full forms are schizothrough, even with their first teeth and as much pain as they go phrenia and multiple personalities. I think that’s one of the reasons through. They don’t fit in his jaw, or they’re too big for his jaw, or he’s successful. Nobody can identify with Captain America, but

“Super-Heroes Are So Damned Boring!”

artwork in the entire comic that really has to tell the most. Or conversely, tell the least, to make you interested in the story. But it has to be interesting, there’s no question about that. Now, that Ka-Zar cover [The Incredible Hulk #109], that’s a good example. At first, I laid out that cover and Stan rejected it. And I can’t remember who, but somebody else laid that cover out, I finished it, and John Severin inked it. That happened a couple of times along the way with the covers. They were not designed by me, they were laid out by somebody else and I finished it.

“It Was Done On An Assembly-Line Basis” CASSELL: Speaking of inkers, did you have a favorite?

Way Before Watergate Above is a real anomaly we thought you ought to see, even if it has to be printed at near-postage-stamp size from an image in an online auction: an unused version of the cover of The Incredible Hulk #147 (Jan. 1972), with Bruce Banner’s bitter half attacking President Richard Nixon (and Vice President Spiro Agnew) above the title “Kill the President!”—juxtaposed with the published cover, on which the pair were replaced by Betty and Gen. “Thunderbolt” Ross. We’re not sure if it was Marvel itself or the Comics Code that deep-sixed the original version of the cover (probably the former)— though Nixon and Agnew remained in the story inside. Thanks to Glen David Gold for forwarding this. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

you can definitely identify with a character like the Hulk, especially in those days, in every decision you make, because you’re torn. You don’t know which way to go with it. “Should I do this? Should I do that? If I do this, what’s going to happen, and if I do that, is it going to change everything?” Not to even get into the area of people with illnesses they can’t control, which is basically what the Hulk has. He is a human stricken with a horrible disease, and his struggle is, “I’m in it, but I’d rather not be. So don’t mess with me in the meantime.” [Dewey chuckles] He doesn’t take kindly to being prodded and pushed and studied and examined and tied up and tied down and carried off somewhere and pummeled with tank guns and infantry assaults, and he gets mad. It makes him mad, so then he uses his disease to an advantage, his strength and power, which is something many of us tend to do, actually. [laughs] You know, the thing that we don’t like most about ourselves, sometimes it comes in very handy. I think that the basic roots of The Incredible Hulk can go very deep, in terms of the human condition, and I think that’s one of the reasons I liked it. I really liked it, and I liked the stories that we did, filled with pathos and remorse and all those other things that make life sad sometimes.

CASSELL: I agree. I think it made the Hulk a very sympathetic character, one you could identify with. I noticed that when you started drawing The Hulk, you also started doing the covers. TRIMPE: Yeah, I don’t know why that was. I think Stan liked my covers. Like I say, I was a good storyteller, which is probably why I got hired, not on extremely able art abilities. After a little bit, I fit right in with the Marvel style of storytelling for super-heroes. And, of course, the cover tells a story. The cover is the one single piece of

With Friends Like These… (Right:) A fairly recent Hulk-vs.-Spidey commission drawing done by Herb Trimpe for Belgian fan Dominique Leonard, who kindly shared it with us. [Hulk & Spider-Man TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

TRIMPE: Me and John Severin. I mean, I liked all of them. Everybody did a fine job, and my pencils were very tight. I might have taken a second glance at covers that were maybe over-embellished—that was unnecessary—but I liked everybody that worked on those covers. If ever I had an idol, I guess John Severin would fall into that category, because he’d worked for EC Comics. And of course Marie, and not because of her ties to John, because I think she was actually a much more versatile artist. [chuckles] Actually, people used to tell her that, and she would get mad. She would defend her brother. It would upset her to tell her she was better than John. But I liked Jack Abel’s stuff, because he had a really nice brush style in the classical sense and the work was always presentable, and it never looked like it was sloppy or rushed, which it did even sometimes when I did it. CASSELL: Did you like inking your own stuff if you had the chance? TRIMPE: Oh, yes. First of all, I didn’t have to pencil as much. [Dewey laughs] That was the big advantage, actually. All through art school, I thought that syndicated comic strips were the be-

“Happy” Herb Trimpe On His Years With Marvel Comics—And The Incredible Hulk

combination of you and John Severin on The [Incredible] Hulk was the epitome of what the Hulk ought to look like. TRIMPE: Yeah, I’ll go with that! [mutual laughter] I enjoyed them. They were fun. And then we did some stuff like a four-part miniseries on Rawhide Kid. He inked the pencils I did, which I only did sort of tight layouts, and those pages are stunning. And yet you put them up for sale and people just... mmp. My rep just got a John Severin page that he penciled and inked, a Western cover. It is magnificent, and he got it for a price that is really embarrassing. Severin could draw, he could draw anything, and he could draw it authentically. But nobody’s interested in that any more. I just have a problem with the notion that if Jack Kirby came into the business today, he wouldn’t get work, [chuckles] because [he and] a lot of these guys look too professional. CASSELL: Why do you suppose that is the case? What has changed? TRIMPE: I don’t know if it’s because there’s a drift towards the amateur side of entertainment, with reality shows like American Idol. It’s like people just want to see normal people doing normal

Iron Horse, Pale Rider Mood, detail… drama, realism… Herb Trimpe and John Severin captured it all in this splash from their 1985 Rawhide Kid series. Script by Bill Mantlo. Thanks to Dewey Cassell. [© Marvel Characters, I

all and end-all of a cartoonist’s existence; it would be the ultimate job in the world to be a syndicated comic strip artist. I know they had help, but basically, they came up with these ideas on their own, and the artist was the person that conceived the story, drew the story, inked the story, and wrote the story. That’s the way I saw a comic book artist when I went to work at Marvel. I found out very quickly that it was done on an assembly-line basis. Well, now it’s kind of gone back again. For years now, there’s been more personal control, more ownership. But I never conceived of the idea that there was a penciler and an inker. There was only an artist, in my mind. [chuckles] You only put enough pencil down to do the drawing in ink, which was the printable version. To me, that was the artwork. The pencils were just the foundation to the house and all the inks were the house. CASSELL: I know a lot of people feel that the

Color Me Reprint! Herb at his drawing desk, in a photo taken by Robert Policastro in 1971— and the color guide for a page in Marvel Super-Heroes #85 (Nov. 1979), courtesy of Dewey Cassell. What’s the common point between these two? Well, the MSH issue was a reprint of The Incredible Hulk #133 (Nov. 1970), a story in which Ol’ Greenskin basically became the “Golem” of a European country and brought down its evil dictator. Script by Roy Thomas; inks by John Severin. [Page © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Super-Heroes Are So Damned Boring!”

things. There’s no real interest in classical drawing. Inking with a brush takes years to really develop chops and know what you’re doing. Look at Joe Sinnott’s stuff when he was inking, or Giacoia, or any of those inkers that could really handle the tools. Don’t let anybody kid you, it’s ten times easier to ink with a pen. You can rough the line, you can make it thin and thick. But a brush is a special thing, especially if you were using feathering, which traditionally is used to indicate a light source. With the use of the feathering or cross-hatching, you can build it to the point, like John Severin did, where everything was almost three-dimensional in the drawings, but there’s no appreciation for that. Can anybody draw better than John Buscema? [chuckles] He was like Michelangelo reincarnated. It’s all beautiful stuff, truly photographically beautiful females and beautiful male bodies, without all this phony bulging muscle/vein thing that makes it look so grotesque. When an artist makes the Hulk look grotesque, that’s really looking grotesque. [Dewey laughs] CASSELL: I think you’re right. I think that inking has almost become a lost art. TRIMPE: It is. I was talking to one of the guys at a show. He had the anatomy [skills] of some of these modern inkers, with the open feathering, fake feathering with a pen where you leave it open a little bit so it’s like a little, tiny arrowhead. It’s so funny. He had every single move down that some of these guys use. I’d rather see just stark black-&-white, like Hellboy. Ahh! That’s good stuff. It’s very good and it’s not grotesque, either. CASSELL: One of the things that always struck me about you and John Severin is that when you worked together, the resulting artwork was the best of both of you. TRIMPE: Yeah, I think you could see my drawing, still. There was no doubt. But I think John also made it look better. He corrected things. I think that’s what an inker basically should do, unless you have a Jack Kirby, where the penciling is so stylized that it stands by itself. You know, Kirby’s pencils could have been photocopied, the pencil line blackened, and you would have everything you need right there. But you’re right. I’m happy it worked out that way. [chuckles] CASSELL: Did you have a favorite villain when it came to The Incredible Hulk? TRIMPE: I liked The Leader and The Abomination. Mole Man wasn’t so bad either. There were others, I guess, but I liked The Abomination because he was like the Hulk, another big, green person. [chuckles] They made a good match, if not physically, at least visually. They looked good taking each other on. CASSELL: Did you ever have any objections about a character you had to draw? TRIMPE: Well, it was never a judgment call. The Hulk was kind of a one-off, a sole operator, and everybody that he ran into was usually pretty interesting. I don’t ever remember having a problem with any of the books, the artwork, or specific issues just based on a villain or a character that was introduced in the story. I think it was too easy. It was early on, and it was fun and it was easy. Some people had more egos than others, but the idea of getting offended because the story didn’t suit your style or the character didn’t work for you, it just didn’t happen. Actually, the biggest arguments I ever heard were John Verpoorten trying to make a deadline and getting inkers on the phone who were still sitting on pages, when the shipping date was the next day. [Dewey chuckles] You’d hear a lot of yelling and

An Abomination Unto Mine Eyes A sketch of The Abomination, one of the Hulk villains Herb says he most enjoyed doing—drawn in this case for Dominique Leonard. So who’s “Tom”? [Abomination TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

screaming. The inker was pretty much the last person, aside from the colorist. In those days, Marie did that stuff in the office and she was so fast it was pretty much irrelevant. But getting those pages back in the office, or a freelancer missing a check somehow, the check didn’t get to him or her and they’d call in and there could be a row. Most people got upset about that stuff. From the management end, it had to do with production. And from the creator end, it had to do with money mostly. [chuckles] It was pretty much nuts and bolts.

“How Did [Wolverine] Actually Come About?” CASSELL: What about the characters that you created along the way, like Doc Samson? TRIMPE: Well, I started to make a list. I actually started to go through some of the names, some of the comics, some of the Essentials, and some of the incidental characters that I just came up with, shooting from the hip. When I hit 20 or 25, I stopped. Most of them are extremely forgettable. But all the secondary characters that appeared in The Hulk [during that time], I designed them. I made them up, if they hadn’t already been established, from Crackerjack Jackson down to Zzzax and all the rest of them. But Doc Samson was strictly Roy Thomas’ idea. The amazing story about Doc Samson is that he’s based on a candy product, Tootsie Roll candy, which featured a comic book character. The ads appeared in comic books in comic strip form, and the hero is Captain Tootsie. And except for the green hair, it looks exactly like Doc Samson. [chuckles]

“Happy” Herb Trimpe On His Years With Marvel Comics—And The Incredible Hulk

Hulk #142.] CASSELL: What about Wolverine? What role did you have in the creation and beginnings of that character? TRIMPE: Well, let me put it to you this way: if by some fortunate or unfortunate happenstance in life, I happen to be the sole survivor of the people involved in the introduction and creation of Wolverine, I will be the sole creator of Wolverine. [Dewey laughs] That I can tell you right now. There will be no doubt about it. And the odds are good. But if so, I’ll let you know ahead of time. CASSELL: Okay. TRIMPE: So the answer, what I’m going to say now, is going to be completely different than if I live to be a hundred, okay? [mutual chuckling] But no, it was a character that was conceived by Roy, designed by John Romita, animated and introduced by me, and given a voice by Len Wein. That’s the basic structure. I [recently] got in touch with John Romita and Roy Thomas and I didn’t tell them [anything], I just said, “How did it happen? How did this character actually come about?” And both of their memories were exactly like my memory. [chuckles]

Maybe They Should’a Called Him “Doc Tootsie”? Roy Thomas has always been proud of lifting much (though not all) of the look for his and Herb Trimpe’s Doc Samson character from Captain Tootsie, a hero created in the 1940s solely to sell Tootsie Rolls with comic-strip-style ads in comic books! Above left is one such, from the back cover of World’s Finest #22 (May-June 1946), drawn by Fawcett “Captain Marvel” artists C.C. Beck & Pete Costanza; writer unknown. And at right: Trimpe’s cover for The Incredible Hulk #141 (July 1971), the issue that introduced Doc Samson to the world, but of course these days they’ve “improved” on the costume. Thanks to Ger Apeldoorn for the “Captain Tootsie” scan. [Captain Tootsie page © the respective copyright holders; Dick Tracy art © Tribune Media Services, Inc.; Hulk cover © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

CASSELL: Oh, really? TRIMPE: Roy said, “This is what I want.” He said, “I always liked Captain Tootsie, and I want to adapt it to a comic book character.” And we used him in The Hulk. He already had the story idea going so I said, “Okay, great.” He actually gave me some samples of the “Captain Tootsie” comic strip. You ought to check it out online. I think he had long hair, it was blond. I don’t remember if he had a lightning bolt or not, but he may have. I think he had a big “T” on his chest. But they’re the same thing, boots and tight pants and short-sleeved shirts, a polo t-shirt where his muscles bulged out, all that. [chuckles] CASSELL: I didn’t know that. What about Jarella, the Hulk’s girlfriend? TRIMPE: Jarella was a Harlan Ellison character, but of course he didn’t do drawings for it. I came up with the look, but he was doing the story. I think he wrote the first one, the one Jarella was introduced in, but I did do the drawing on that. [A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: Ellison supplied the plot, Thomas the dialogue for Incredible

CASSELL: So, how did it get started? TRIMPE: Roy came up with the idea of a Canadian super-hero. He wanted to do it, and he coined the name “Wolverine” because he wanted him to be much smaller than the average super-hero, but a very fierce human being like the wolverine is as an animal. And he said, “I discussed it with Len at a lunch.” I would say Roy had something to do with the plot, too. Then he said, “I talked to John Romita, and discussed the character with John.” John did the preliminary drawings of the character, and there were some adjustments made down the line. And I was there. I might have added some input, I don’t know—it doesn’t really matter. John’s story was that Roy came to him and asked him to design a character called Wolverine, giving him a little bit of background about what his abilities would be. And John said, “I didn’t even know what a wolverine was. I thought it was a female wolf.” [Dewey laughs] So he said, “I got out the encyclopedia.” John looked up the character and he saw what it looked like and he started to fiddle around with the artwork. CASSELL: Did you have any inkling that it would turn out to be something special? TRIMPE: No. Wolverine was a one-off. That’s what we did—we just did these things from the hip. CASSELL: I think you undervalue your contribution to the character. TRIMPE: I don’t feel I had a small part in it. I feel I had a very important part and as storyteller, an important responsibility at the time, in retrospect. CASSELL: What about the cover to The Incredible Hulk #181?

“Super-Heroes Are So Damned Boring!”

Cry Wolverine! It probably won’t surprise you to learn that one of the commission requests Herb Trimpe receives most often is for a scene featuring the Hulk and Wolverine, since he drew The Incredible Hulk #181 (Nov. 1974), the issue that introduced Wolverine (well, not counting a single panel at the end of the preceding issue). We used one such Hulk vs. Wolverine drawing, of course, as the cover of this issue of Alter Ego, and above are two more: a photo of a framed color illustration he did for fan Jeff Harnett (to whom thanks)—and a black-&-white illustration sent to us by original-art dealer Anthony Snyder (visit his website at www.anthonysnyder.com/art). Herb Trimpe at the Big Apple Con in New York City, October 2010.

TRIMPE: When I look at that cover, I’m not sure I did the layout to it. Nobody else has a recollection of that. But the Wolverine character coming at you, that is a John Romita pose. There is no question about it. At that stage of the game, I wasn’t capable of doing a pose like that. It wouldn’t have occurred to me. The one character that does look like I posed was Wendigo. But the Hulk on that cover and Wolverine look like John Romita’s layout to me. I know he did make a change on the face, because now they’re starting to print the original cover with the face that John Romita did not adjust, which was just a redrawn head pasted on the Hulk’s figure on the cover. But now you see examples [of the original]—I don’t know where the hell they’re getting the art from, it must have been from early silver prints. But Stan didn’t like the

And, just for good measure, we’re throwing in a Trimpe Wolverine sketch we retrieved from the comicartfans website. [Hulk & Wolverine TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Hulk head I had on that cover at all when it was finished, and John re-did it. It was stuck on with rubber cement, so we could peel it off. The old head is still there. We didn’t white it out or anything. That was my secret about that cover to indicate whether it was a fake or not, if somebody ever tried to palm off a re-creation as the real thing. Not many people knew that until I started to tell them a couple of years ago. But that’s a Romita head on the Hulk, inked by Romita. CASSELL: I didn’t know that. Was it a challenge making the stories flow from one issue to the next? TRIMPE: One of the nice things is we really linked stories with The Hulk, but they weren’t continuing stories for the most part. The

“Happy” Herb Trimpe On His Years With Marvel Comics—And The Incredible Hulk

Like A Rolling Stone Trimpe’s cover for the rock-and-counterculture magazine Rolling Stone (Sept. 16, 1971), and the photo of him that appeared inside, along with pics of numerous other Bullpenners. Thanks to Barry Pearl. [Hulk TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.; other materials © Rolling Stone or successors in interest.]

with? Yes. Hits deadlines? Yes. But exuding an aura of excitement? I don’t think so—except for maybe what Marie saw in that sketch you had mentioned earlier. But then, those girls weren’t doing the hiring. CASSELL: How long did you draw The Hulk?

place he left off might be the place that he’d start the next issue, but usually each story was fresh. Roy had a strong influence on some of the later writers, making things maybe a little more complicated, planning ahead a little bit. But with Stan, everything was fresh from one issue to another. The characters, of course, the problem that they had in the last issue, they’d still have it in the next issue. But Stan’s approach to plots, when it was time to do another issue, was you’d go in his office and he’s say, “Okay, what did we do last issue? So-and-so is the villain, okay. So we need a villain, and where is Hulk? He was left off in New York City. Okay, so that’s where we’ll start from.” A villain that was available and the location that we left off in the last issue, and it would just go from there. Writers then were plotting the story, but like I said, the artist was directing the story, and then the writers were scripting the story. Most of the writers I worked with, there were never really any changes. They might want an intermediate panel or something adjusted here and there, but generally speaking, it went very smoothly, because it wasn’t a big deal. I suspect that it is now a much bigger deal. We were shooting from the hip, basically. It was a free-for-all kind of thing. That was the good part of it; that was the fun part. CASSELL: Did your storytelling ability give you any clout with the editors? TRIMPE: Just to be clear, I never was a pushy individual—at least as far as a career in comics went—and, although wonderful fans have praised the kinds of things I have done, those doing the hiring never considered me a heavyweight. I’m not being modest. It’s just the facts. Friendly? Yes. Competent? Yes. Easy to work

TRIMPE: I wound up doing The Hulk for about eight years, I guess. I think Sal Buscema beat me out by doing a longer run, in a day when doing long runs on comics was not unusual. It was like getting more than an assignment, it was a job. I actually got myself off The Hulk. I bailed out. Today, I wish I hadn’t. God knows how long I could have kept going. I know I would have been off it by now. But in retrospect, people will ask me, “What was your favorite title?” And I have to say The Hulk.

“You Could Always Pick Up Extra Things To Do” CASSELL: While you were working on The Hulk, you picked up some other artwork assignments as well, like Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. TRIMPE: Well, at one point, the office was very close to our apartment in the city. I delivered the work by hand and sometimes came into the office to work since I was so close. So, especially if you were nearby, you were always close at hand, and you could always pick up extra things to do, because there was always something that had to be done or somebody who had missed a deadline or corrections to be made. It was pretty straightforward. CASSELL: What other comics did you work on? TRIMPE: I had done a short series with Chris Claremont, War Is Hell, and of course I did the iconic and memorable “Phantom Eagle” with Gary Friedrich. CASSELL: Did you create the character Son of Satan? TRIMPE: I might have. I know I had the original model sheet I did, but sold it to a collector. The thing is, creation was a gray area in comics in those days. Even today. If the writer comes up with [Continued on p. 33]

“Super-Heroes Are So Damned Boring!”

Sidebar:

Fingers In The Dike

t may surprise some people to read this interview with Herb Trimpe and find that, while he remembers a lot about working at Marvel and drawing The Incredible Hulk, he does not recall details about, for example, the four issues of Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. that he drew in 1969. The fact is that, for many of his generation of artists, as for most of the members of the ones that preceded it, drawing comics was fundamentally a job—a fun job, mind you, but first and foremost a way to pay the rent and put food on the table. So, asking Trimpe if he remembers creating the villain Bulls-Eye for S.H.I.E.L.D. is a bit like asking William Shatner why the crew of the Starship Enterprise beamed down to the planet in episode 6 of Star Trek. In Trimpe’s own words, it was “just another hole in the dike that somebody had to put their finger in.”

Still, even on his short-term assignments, Trimpe often made a meaningful contribution to the Marvel comic book canon. Following, then, is a slightly more detailed examination of a few of the comic book titles in this time period, other than Incredible Hulk, for which Trimpe provided that finger. —Dewey Cassell.

Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.: As mentioned, Trimpe drew four issues of this title, and an equal number of covers for the book. He had tough shoes to fill, following Jim Steranko, Frank Springer, and Barry Smith on the title. His story layouts reflect a continuation of the dynamic panel designs first put to such effective use by Steranko. And Trimpe co-created (with Gary Friedrich) the villain Bulls-Eye for issue #15, which proved to be the final original story in that first series. While not the same Bullseye who later plagued Daredevil, the two villains did share more than a name. Both were assassins, both used a bullseye on their costumes, and both had unerring aim, although the earlier Bulls-Eye owed his accuracy to his weapon. The Friedrich/Trimpe character died in the same issue in which he was introduced. One other item of note is that Trimpe’s first pencils for S.H.I.E.L.D., in issue #8, appeared only a few months after he took the reins on The Incredible Hulk from Marie Severin. Ant-Man (Marvel Feature): When the new “Ant-Man” series debuted in 1972 in Marvel Feature #4, it touted the creative team of artist Trimpe and writer Mike Friedrich (no relation to Gary). The re-launch of this classic 1960s Marvel hero was exceptionally wellwritten by Friedrich, with intelligent dialogue, and Trimpe’s artwork reflected his gift for storytelling. Stuck in his shrunken form, Ant-Man dons a new costume and forges new adventures while seeking for a cure for his condition. It was a thinking man’s

Don’t Yield, Buy S.H.I.E.L.D.! An action page from Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. #14 (Sept. 1969) and the cover of #15 (Nov. ’69), both by Trimpe. Thanks to Dewey Cassell. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Happy” Herb Trimpe On His Years With Marvel Comics—And The Incredible Hulk

Go To The Ant, Thou Bullpen! (Above:) The splash page of Trimpe’s and Mike Friedrich’s revival of “Ant-Man,” which began in Marvel Feature #4 (July 1972)—and Herb’s cover for #6 (Nov. ’72), in which Hank Pym sported the new costume he’d donned the issue before. Hey, after all the secret identities he’d already had by then (Ant-Man, Giant-Man, Goliath, Yellowjacket), another change of clothes was nothing! For Mike’s photo, see previous issue. Thanks to Dewey Cassell. [© Marvel Characters.]

Hellzapoppin’! Herb Trimpe was involved with Marvel’s War Is Hell comic beginning with #1 (Jan. 1973), seen at near right. Also pictured is an interior page from issue #15 (Oct. 1975) in which the ghost of John Kowalski takes over the body of a fallen G.I. This reminded some people of the DC Deadman hero of a few years previous—but Mars, God of War, had been doing the very same thing in Fiction House’s Planet Comics back in the early 1940s. Script by Chris Claremont. Thanks to Dewey Cassell. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Super-Heroes Are So Damned Boring!”

15, the final issue. Although he did not have a long tenure on the book, noteworthy is the fact that Trimpe inked his own pencils. This was a genre Trimpe enjoyed drawing, as is obvious in the interview.

Quoth Killraven… Trimpe’s cover for Amazing Adventures #20 (Sept. 1973), which featured the “War of the Worlds” series starring Killraven. Those are H.G. Wells’ Martian tripods in the background. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Land of the Giants, with the hero having little more than his wits to fight a series of ruthless villains and enemies of nature. Then after only three issues, for reasons lost to time, Trimpe left the book. Issue #7 suggested that his absence was only temporary, but he did not return. Unlike other series that debuted in Marvel Feature, “AntMan” did not get his own title, leaving one to wonder if things might have turned out differently had Trimpe remained on the book. For more information on Ant-Man, see the Marvel Feature article in Back Issue #71. War Is Hell: This comic book started out in 1973 as a reprint book, at a time when the Vietnam War was still going on. With issue #9, a series of new stories began, featuring John Kowalski, a dead solider whose spirit could possess the bodies of living people. Chris Claremont was the writer for the series. Trimpe drew covers for the series’ first and last issues, as well as #5. He penciled the interior stories for issue #s 13 &

The Son Also Rises Herb’s model sheet for the Son of Satan character (discussed elsewhere in the interview), and his cover for Marvel Spotlight #12 (Oct. 1973), wherein Daimon Hellstrom’s solo series began after he was introduced in Ghost Rider #2, a few weeks earlier. Thanks to Jeff Jaworski and Dewey Cassell, respectively. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Killraven (Amazing Adventures – “War of the Worlds”): Amazing Adventures started out in 1970 as a split book, with The Inhumans and Black Widow sharing the spotlight. Issue #11 saw the focus change to The Beast, former X-Man, who first sprouts his blue fur in this series. Then, with #18, the title becomes a showcase for Killraven, an original character set loosely in the framework of H.G. Wells’ classic novel The War of the Worlds. Trimpe began penciling the covers with issue #19, and the stories with issue #20. He continued to pencil the interiors through issue #24, returning for issue #33. This “finger in the dike” is interesting in that it neither started nor ended with Trimpe, but his work on the series is well-respected by fans. Son of Satan: Daimon Hellstrom debuted in issue #2 of Ghost Rider, written by Gary Friedrich, before moving to Marvel Spotlight for what would prove to be a fairly long run. Thus, Jim Mooney was actually the first artist to draw the Son of Satan, but Trimpe refined the look and feel of the character in Marvel Spotlight #12, where he drew both the cover and the first solo story in 1973. Trimpe penciled the story for issue #13, as well, before turning the reins back over to Mooney. However, given the model sheet of Son of Satan, which Trimpe describes in the interview, it seems likely that he was originally planned to have a longer tenure on the series. Trimpe did return to the character once more in a pairing with the Thing in Marvel Two-In-One #14.

“Happy” Herb Trimpe On His Years With Marvel Comics—And The Incredible Hulk

Surfer’s Up! And here’s the third of the cover roughs that Herb gave to Warren Reece in 1970 (see p. 21), done for The Silver Surfer #17 (June 1970). This sketch is actually quite close to the published version, though some of the buildings and the figures of Nick Fury and his men were altered somewhat. Thanks to WR. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

The Silver Surfer: This is perhaps both the most brief, and most interesting, interlude in Trimpe’s career in comics. John Buscema was responsible for most of the covers and all of the interior artwork for the first 17 issues of the landmark Silver Surfer series. But in 1970, Trimpe drew the covers for issue #s 17 & 18, and the latter bore the interior pencils of Jack Kirby inked by Trimpe. Taking nothing away from the definitive art of Buscema, this final issue of the series was reminiscent of Kirby’s masterful introduction of the iconic character in Fantastic Four, and it is some of the most prized artwork of the late Silver Age. During this time period, Trimpe also contributed to some Marvel humor titles, notably Spoof and the fledgling Crazy Magazine. It is further evidence of Trimpe’s remarkable ability to fill in wherever needed, and do an admirable job in the process. While they may have been just “fingers in the dike” to him, his contributions to such a variety of comics over the course of his career speaks volumes regarding his versatility and adaptability as an artist. It is no wonder Herb Trimpe has so many loyal fans of his diverse body of work.

The Last Time I Saw Parody Herb also displayed considerable ability for inking humor material. In the color Spoof #3 (Jan. 1973) he proved the pluperfect inker for the Marie Severin-penciled “F-F-Frogs!,” which lampooned the recent horror movie Frogs that had starred Ray Milland. The art, coupled with Stu Schwartzberg’s brilliant Kurtzmanesque script and thumbnail layouts, had several members of the Bullpen, including Ye Editor, all but rolling on the floor in helpless laughter. Marie and Herb also contributed art for Marv Wolfman’s fine script for a takeoff on TV’s Kung Fu (starring David Carradine) in Crazy Magazine #7 (Oct. 1974). Thanks to Dewey Cassell. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Super-Heroes Are So Damned Boring!”

title, but as for me getting involved in that, I have no idea. I probably had the time, as far as I can tell. CASSELL: You also did a piece for Esquire magazine back in the early ‘70s, didn’t you? TRIMPE: Yeah, I did a thing for Esquire on Gloria Steinem. She was a female activist during that time. CASSELL: Sure, she founded Ms. magazine, right? TRIMPE: Yeah, Ms. magazine, that’s exactly right. She worked for Playboy at one time. She was a Bunny for a day, or something like that. So, there was a three-page thing that I did for Esquire. You know, the weird thing is this: I just got an e-mail from somebody about two weeks ago. You know Linda Ellerbee from NBC? Well, they have a subsidiary show that she’s a head of, and the woman that runs this other show e-mailed me and wanted to know if I had the artwork to that. [laughs] CASSELL: Oh, you’re kidding! TRIMPE: No… or where they could find it, because they wanted to use it on TV and they had called Esquire. Esquire said, “Yeah, no problem, but you should ask the artist.” I don’t know why. Esquire owns it. But they got in touch with me anyway. And I said, “Yeah, I don’t care. I totally forgot about that.” And I don’t think I ever had the artwork back from it, but I actually think I have the printed pages somewhere around here. I think I was using them in my portfolio as samples years ago.

“Comic Strips Were Always My Prime Objective” Super Is As Super Does The “Radical Chic” storyline that Thomas and Trimpe concocted for The Incredible Hulk #142 (Aug. 1971), inspired by the writings of neojournalist Tom Wolfe, led to Herb drawing this “Superwoman” story for the Oct. 1971 issue of Esquire magazine. Guess DC Comics figured they’d look like “male chauvinist pigs” (a phrase from the third of its three pages) if they complained about the heroine’s name. Writer unknown. [© the respective copyright holders.]

[Continued from p. 28] the name, puts in some suggestions, it doesn’t matter how much the artist does. In my experience, the writer seems generally to get credit for the creation. If you were to count the artists’ first drawing of a character as the actual creation, then I would have created many, many characters. CASSELL: I saw the Son of Satan model sheet. It was great. TRIMPE: It’s 11 by 17 and it was a sketch of the character. And I remember when I did it, I think I did it at the office at Marvel and it was basically just a pencil sketch of the character. Then I didn’t have anything else to do, so I added color and I made a logo and it turned it into a pin-up kind of thing. It looked pretty good. CASSELL: Was it ever published? TRIMPE: No, that was never published. It wasn’t meant to be. It was basically to set up something in my head as to how the character would look. There was no posterity involved in it. I was just saving it for myself to use as reference, or anybody else that might need it for reference. CASSELL: What about Killraven, the character that appeared under the banner of “War of the Worlds”? TRIMPE: That’s right. Yeah, I remember the character well, and the

CASSELL: It’s a great example of something different that you had done. Did you ever do any newspaper comic strips? TRIMPE: Yeah, I did a strip for a Long Island newspaper, Newsday, and they had an off-beat approach. They did a lot of local news and I don’t know if they were soliciting, but they had a page that was really a showcase for comic artists and you could do anything you want with it. Somebody must have talked to me—maybe Stan came around the office and said, “Anybody want to get involved in this?” But comic strips were always my prime objective, even though I didn’t do a whole lot about it once I was working at Marvel. I did a strip for them, about twelve installments, Sunday installments. Somewhere, I still have the originals to that. It was called The Eternal Soldier. It was in the ‘70s, and I had gotten back from Vietnam, and I liked military stuff, liked the hardware and especially airplanes. But somehow, I was compelled, I guess just by the popular thought at the time, so it was generally an anti-war commentary. You’ll look like a fool if you try to do anything that looks like it’s pro-war, you know? So it is kind of an anti-war comic strip during a period after everything has collapsed. They were done in a large size. I think they’re even bigger than 11 by 17. I don’t know if you ever saw it. CASSELL: No, but you’ve intrigued me. And it was a weekly? TRIMPE: Yeah, it was a weekly and there were other artists that were contributing at the same time. And then when the people that I was working with, the other artists who were working concurrently, when we stopped, another batch would get in there, so they did quite a bit of stuff over a fairly short period of time. CASSELL: And you wrote and drew it? TRIMPE: Yep. It was nice, but it’s not the kind of thing that a major national newspaper would pick up.

“Happy” Herb Trimpe On His Years With Marvel Comics—And The Incredible Hulk

Soldiering On The eighth and final installment of Trimpe’s weekly comic strip The Eternal Soldier, done in the 1970s for the popular Long Island newspaper Newsday. Thanks to HT. [© Herb Trimpe.]

CASSELL: Did you ever get involved with any promotional things for Marvel? TRIMPE: A promoter convinced Stan to do a show in Carnegie Hall, which we did. [chuckles] CASSELL: The “Marvelous Evening with Stan Lee” at Carnegie Hall in January 1972? TRIMPE: Yeah. I thought it was pretty good. It was kind of fun. CASSELL: Did you get compensated to do those things? TRIMPE: No. [chuckles] Unless there was food there.

Iron Man Marathon (Above:) A/E’s editor (who was then Stan Lee’s associate editor) recalls Herb Trimpe having to draw this fill-in issue of Iron Man (#39, July 1971) in record time when somebody else screwed up. It sold better than the issues before or after it. (Right:) We didn’t dare leave out this oft-printed self-portrait Herb did in the early 1970s for the licensed Marvelmania organization, showing most of the characters with whom he was identified up to that time. Thanks to Dewey Cassell. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Super-Heroes Are So Damned Boring!”

CASSELL: Well, I appreciate all of your recollections. Any parting thoughts? TRIMPE: All those in the bullpen were just a great bunch, a close knit collection of lunatics in the beginning—Stan, of course, Marie, John, Roy, Tony, Morrie, Stu, Danny, Sol, Flo, Big John, Mary, and many others as the bullpen roster changed. I was lucky. Herb Trimpe worked on a variety of comics for Marvel throughout the remainder of the 1970s and 1980s, including numerous licensed characters, notably G.I. Joe, Shogun Warriors, Godzilla, Transformers, and Indiana Jones, as well as super-hero titles such as Iron Man, Defenders, and Captain Britain for Marvel UK. [For the story on AntMan see the article on Marvel Feature in BACK ISSUE #71.] Trimpe even had a lengthy stint on Marvel Team-Up, an ironic assignment that found him illustrating one of Marvel’s flagship characters with a curious assortment of guest stars such as Dazzler, King Kull, and Professor X. He also dabbled with old characters such as Rawhide Kid and new ones like Spitfire and The Troubleshooters. He did an outstanding Machine Man mini-series with Tom DeFalco and Barry Windsor-Smith. And, as he

moved into the 1990s, he changed his drawing style and won over new fans with his work on such titles as Thor, Fantastic Four Unlimited, and a new version of Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. Then, in 1996, Marvel did the unthinkable and let Trimpe go, after more than 29 years in the Bullpen. He found a new calling as a teacher and began passing on his experience and expertise to a new generation. But it wasn’t long before the call of his fans brought him back to comics, doing commission and attending conventions across the country. For the rest of the story, including insights from Roy Thomas, John Romita, Sal Buscema, Joe Sinnott, Larry Hama, Doug Moench, and Herb himself, look for the upcoming book from TwoMorrows Publishing: The Incredible Herb Trimpe. Dewey Cassell is the author of over 30 articles and two books, including Marie Severin: The Mirthful Mistress of Comics, which was nominated for an Eisner Award. He is currently finishing up work on the above-mentioned volume about Herb Trimpe.

HERB TRIMPE Checklist [The following Checklist is adapted from information found in the online edition of The Who’s Who of American Comic Books 1928-1999, established by Jerry G. Bails, which covers material produced up through 2006. Some additional information provided by Herb Trimpe. Names of features which also appeared both in comics of that title and in other magazines are generally not italicized. Key: (w) = writer; (a) = full art; (p) = pencils only; (i) = inks only; (S) = Sunday newspaper comic strip.] Name: Herbert William Trimpe (b. 1939) writer, artist Pen Name: Herbill [in collaboration with Bill Everett] Education: School of Visual Arts, New York City Family in Arts: Mike Trimpe – brother; Linda Fite Trimpe – former wife Print Media (Non-Comics]: Juvenile books – Fantastic Four (a) c. 1970, G.I. Joe (p) 1983; magazines – Esquire (a) 1971, New York (a) 1979; posters – Hulk (reprint, a) 1978; Times-Herald Record (newspaper) cartoons and spot illustrations (dates uncertain)

The Hulk Vs. The Thing Herb Trimpe strikes his “Hulk impersonation” pose some years back at Marvel. He got his shot at drawing the Fantastic Four, as well—in a circa-1970 revival of the once-popular Big Little Books of an earlier era. The Big Little Books were small, thick publications just a few inches on a side, with straight prose on left-hand pages and art on right-hand ones. Inks by John Verpoorten. Thanks to Herb for the photo, and to Nick Caputo for this interior F.F. BLB art/page. [Cover © Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“Happy” Herb Trimpe On His Years With Marvel Comics—And The Incredible Hulk

License To Stomp In the post-1975 years mostly beyond the scope of this A/E interview, Herb drew a number of Marvel-licensed properties, including G.I. Joe, Transformers, Godzilla, Shogun Warriors, et al. Just to whet your appetite for Dewey Cassell’s upcoming TwoMorrows book on Trimpe, which will deal with his entire life and career, above are the cover of G.I. Joe and Transformers #1 (Nov. 1986), inked by Vince Colletta… and the original art for the splash page of Godzilla #2 (Sept. 1977), scripted by Doug Moench and inked by Frank Giacoia (George Tuska inked the later pages). Thanks to Dewey C. and to original art dealer Mike Burkey, respectively. See Mike’s ads on pp. 54 & 74. [© the respective copyright holders & Toho Company, Ltd., respectively.]

Animation: Zander – layout artist Crest commercials c. 1977 Newspaper Comic Strip: The Eternal Soldier (w)(a) 1970s (precise dates uncertain) Promotional Comics: Captain America and the Campbell Kids (i) 1980 for Campbell’s Soups; Hulk premium (a) with Aurora Models Assistant to: Tom Gill 1960-62 Big Apple Productions: Big Apple Comix (w)(a) 1976 COMIC BOOK CREDITS (Mainstream U.S. Publications): Dell Publications: adaptations (i) 1962; Bonanza (i) c. 1960-62; filler (i) 1962; The Lone Ranger (i) c. 1960-62; Jules Verne’s Mysterious Island [Four Color #1231] (i) 1961; Silver (i) c. 1960-62 Marvel Comics: The Avengers (p) 1970, 1990-92); Avengers West Coast (p)(i) 1991-92; Bishop (p) 1992; Bizarre Adventures (a) 1982;

“Super-Heroes Are So Damned Boring!”

England Swings—To Marvel! Trimpe also illustrated many stories and covers for the reprint comics Marvel repackaged for the United Kingdom in the early 1970s. Seen here are the original art of his version of Jack Kirby’s cover for The Avengers #8 (inker un-certain) and for the second issue of the Captain Britain comic that was launched a bit later. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

The WHO’S WHO of American Comic Books 1928-1999 Captain America (p) 1975-76; (a) 1980, 1984; covers (p)(i) 1969-92; Crazy Magazine (a) 1973-74; Creatures on the Loose (a) 1971; The Defenders (p)(i) 1978-80; Dr. Strange (i) 1967, (p)(i) 1970; Fantastic Four (p) 1992; G.I. Joe (p)(i)(some w) 1982, 1985-88, 1991; G.I. Joe and The Transformers (p) 1987; Ghost Rider (plot) 1967; (a) 1981; Godzilla (p)(i) 1977-79; Guardians of the Galaxy (p) 1992; Hulk (p)(i) 1967-78, 1983, 1989-90, 1991; Hulk, Luke Cage and Iron Fist (p) 1980; Hulk, Luke Cage, Iron Fist and Machine Man (p) 1980; Indiana Jones (p) 1984; Iron Man (p)(i) 1971, 1976-78, 1985, 1989-90; Ka-Zar (p) 1971; Kid Colt Outlaw (p) 1967-68; Killraven (p) 1973-76; Machine Man (p) 1984; Marvel Team-Up 1981-82; Marvel Universe (p) 1983-84, 1987; Moondragon and Mantis (p) 1992; Nick Fury, Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D. (p) 1969, 1990-91; Phantom Eagle (a) 1968; Planet of the Apes (p)(some i) 1976-77; Quasar (p) 1994; Rawhide Kid (i) 196768; Robotix (w)(a) 1986; Savage Tales (w)(a) 1985; Shogun Warriors (a) 1979-80; The Silver Surfer (i) 1970; Skywarriors (w)(a) 1985-86; Skyhawk (a) 1991; Son of Satan (p) 1973-74; Sons of the Tiger (a) 1975, 1994; Spider-Man (p) 1985; Spitfire [2nd version] (p) 1986-87; Spoof (i) 1973; Star Wars (p) 1978; Starblast (p) 1993-94; Sub-Mariner and Dr. Doom (p) 1976; Tales of Asgard (a) 1990; Tales of the Earth Force (p) 1990; Terminus Factor (p) 1990 crossover story in various annuals; Thing and Son of Satan (p) 1976; Thing and Thor (p) 1975; Tor (p)(i) 1983, 1990-91; Transformers (p) 1985-86; Two-Gun Kid (p)(i) 1967; War Is Hell (p)(a) 1973, 1975

Online Edition Created by Jerry G. Bails FREE – online searchable database – FREE www.bailsprojects.com – No password required

A quarter of a million records, covering the careers of people who have contributed to original comic books in the US.

Herb Trimpe’s Hulk art for the back cover of the program book for the 1975 “Marvel Con.” Thanks to Dewey Cassell. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

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Seal Of Approval: The History Of The Comics Code Continuing Our Serialization Of The Landmark Book By AMY KISTE NYBERG

A/E

EDITOR’S INTRODUCTION: In Alter Ego #123 we presented Dr. Nyberg’s introductory overview to her 1998 work whose title is utilized as that of this section. It was originally published by the University Press of Mississippi for its Studies in Popular Culture series, under the general editorship of M. Thomas Inge. With this issue we begin the reprinting of the main body of the book, with the addition of photos and illustrations not in the original volume. But first, here is the author’s “University Profile” from the website of Seton Hall University in South Orange, New Jersey:

Amy K. Nyberg, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Communications Department of Communication and the Arts Profile: I joined the faculty of the Department of Communication in 1993, coming from the Ph.D. program in Mass Communication at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. My background as a professional journalist enables me to share real-world experience with students in my writing, reporting, and editing courses. In addition, I teach a variety of theory and research courses, including Media Criticism and Women and the Media. Since the 2000-2001 academic year, I have served as the adviser to The Setonian, the official undergraduate newspaper of Seton Hall University. My research area is comic books. My book Seal of Approval: The History of the Comics Code was published in 1998 by University Press of Mississippi. My scholarship also includes a number of articles and book chapters on comic books, ranging from a study of comic books commemorating September 11th, published in Media Representations of September 11, to an exploration of the ethical dimensions of the postwar comic book controversy, published in Comics as Philosophy. Education:

· Ph.D., University of Wisconsin-Madison, 1994 · M.A., Northern Illinois University, 1983; M.A., Northern Illinois University, 1986

· B.S., Central Michigan University, 1977. Academic Distinctions:

· Three-time winner of the M. Thomas Inge Award for Comics Scholarship, presented by the Comic Art Comics Area of the National Popular Culture Association

· Consultant for a three-part documentary on superheroes (National Endowment for the Humanities)

· Keynote speaker for the Comic Book in Popular Culture Conference at Bowling Green University, November 2008

· Consultant for the Connecticut Historical Society exhibit on comic books

· Winner of a summer research stipend for research on the history of the National Cartoonists Society The first edition of Seal of Approval is still available through the University Press of Mississippi at www.upress.state.ms.us Our thanks to William Biggins and Vijah Shah, the University Press’ past and present acquisitions editors, for their help—with a special thank-you to Dr. M. Thomas Inge for his aid in arranging for this A/E edition. The text is © 1998 University Press of Mississippi. Since Seal of Approval is, as Seton Hall University’s website says, “a scholarly work Horsing Around on comic book censorship,” the text is extenAmy Kiste Nyberg once sively “footnoted,” though in the ALS style described herself as “an avid which lists book or article or author names, equestrian [who] competes plus page numbers, between parentheses in in horse shows in the New the actual text: e.g., “(Hart 154-156)” refers Jersey area.” This photo appeared with her article on to pp. 154-156 of whichever work by an comics and juvenile author or editor named Hart is listed in the delinquency which appeared bibliography. When the parentheses contain in Roy Thomas’ 2000 only page numbers, that’s because the name TwoMorrows book The Allof the author, editor, and/or work is given in Star Companion [Vol. 1]. the main text almost immediately preceding Amy and her husband, the note. The bibliography will be printed at comic book artist John the conclusion of our serialization, several Nyberg, live in Chatham, NJ. issues from now. (In addition, there are a few notes in the book that are treated as footnotes in the more traditional sense. Those are reprinted with the footnoted text at the bottom of the page on which the number appears.) As we stated last issue, we have kept such spellings as “superhero,” etc., and the non-capitalization of the term “comics code,” as they appear in the published book. “E.C.” is printed with periods, while “DC” is not, again as per the book. However, we revert to our own style in the captions, which are written by Ye Editor, who also chose the accompanying art spots. Naturally, neither Amy Nyberg nor the University Press of Mississippi is responsible for any error or opinion in said captions. In the very rare instances where Ye Ed felt a need to correct or quibble with a judgment or statement of fact in the main text, that is done—and, we hope, clearly labeled—in said captions. Oh, and a thank-you to Brian K. Morris for re-typing the entire book specifically for A/E. Now on to…

Continuing Our Serialization Of The Landmark Book By Amy Kiste Nyberg

Chapter I Comics, Critics, And Children’s Culture

he audience for comic books in postwar America was much different from what it is today. Readers today are more likely to be older teens and young adults, mostly male. Comic book reading has become associated with the phenomenon of collecting comic books, and a specialized market catering to the collector has given rise to comic book specialty shops. But in the 1940s and 1950s, comic books were widely available at grocery stores, newsstands, and corner drug stores, and children were the primary audience. In the days before television, comic book reading was a major leisure activity for children. Partly because of the ubiquitous nature of the medium, children’s fascination with comic books became a topic of concern for parents, teachers, and librarians and an area of investigation for researchers. The analysis that follows of the early criticism of comic books shows that, almost from the beginning, comic book reading was defined as a problem.

Studies of readership made by comic book publishers and academic researchers showed that nearly all children read comic books.1 Comic books were most popular with children in the upper elementary grades; more than 90 percent of the children in the fourth, fifth, and sixth grades reported they read comic books regularly, averaging at least ten comics a month. For this age group, comic book reading appeared to be an activity enjoyed by

The Good, The Bad… Covers of two (probably relatively late) dime novels. They started off lauding public heroes like Buffalo Bill, Kit Carson, et al.—and were soon also glorifying the exploits of outlaws like Jesse James and Billy the Kid. The Jesse James Stories cover seems to be a reprint of an earlier edition, though probably with the original cover art.

both boys and girls. Readership was lower among adolescents and adults; still, 30 percent of young adults reported reading comic books. Their popularity alarmed parents and educators. While the comic book was a new phenomenon, the problems it posed had been faced earlier with the introduction of the dime novel, the comic strip, and the film. Many of the complaints about comics were resurrected from earlier debates surrounding the introduction of these other media. Dime novels, which were inexpensive pamphlets featuring simple stories recounting the adventures of explorers, cowboys, or soldiers, were first published during the Civil War. Historian Merle Curti notes that, although dime novels were intended for an audience of working-class adults, the stories held great appeal for children as well, so publishers began to produce dime novels specifically for the juvenile reader (172). As audiences became more jaded, the clean-cut heroes gave way to “bad” heroes like Jesse James and Billy the Kid. Next, publishers began offering sophisticated crime and detective stories (Hart 154-56). The decline in the literary quality of the stories, along with the addition of more lurid cover illustrations, led to an attack on dime novels by vice societies, formed in many major cities in the years following the Civil War. These groups originally targeted pornography, but after their vice campaigns eliminated or drove much of that material underground, the societies broadened the scope of their work (Broun and Leech 187). The leader in these efforts was 1

Hey, Kids! Comics! A typical newsstand scene from the late 1950s/early ’60s. Thanks to Richard J. Arndt.

See, for example, Nathan Abelson, “Comics Are a Serious Business,” Advertising and Selling, July 1946: 41; Nathan Abelson, “Comics Are a Serious Business; Part II of a Study of Comics Magazines,” Advertising and Selling, August 1946: 80-92; Paul Witty, Ethel Smith, and Anne Coomer, “Reading the Comics in Grades VII and VIII,” Journal of Educational Psychology 33 (1942): 173-82; Paul Witty, “Children’s Interest in Reading the Comics,” Journal of Experimental Education 10 (1941): 100-109; Paul Witty and Anne Coomer, “Reading the Comics in Grades IV-VII,” Educational Administration and Supervision 28 (1942): 344-53; Paul Witty, “Reading the Comics – A Comprehensive Study,” Journal of Experimental Education 10 (1941): 105-9; Harvey Zorbaugh, “The Comics – There They Stand,” Journal of Educational Sociology 18 (1944): 196-203.

Seal Of Approval: The History Of The Comics Code—Chapter 1

Anthony Comstock, the head of the New York Society for the Suppression of Vice. Comstock’s attack on the dime novel, the topic of his book Traps for the Young, published in 1884, marks the first major controversy in the history of American children’s culture. The criticism of comic books also has its roots, not surprisingly, in the criticism of the comic strips that inspired the creation of the “funny books.” Newspapers began printing Sunday supplements devoted exclusively to comics as early as 1894. Early comics were populated by characters drawn from the working class, usually immigrants, and their humor was very physical. The emphasis on vulgar humor (often featuring the misbehavior of urban slum children) combined with the crude production values of the time offended the literary and artistic sensibilities of the middle class. The disrespect for authority and the cruelty of the pranks depicted in the strips also concerned parents and educators, who worried about the impact that such depictions would have on children, and groups in several cities organized a highly focused protest against the comics. In her analysis of early comic strips, Elsa Nystrom notes that while such protests produced a flurry of activity between 1906 and 1911, the growing concern about the involvement of the United States in world affairs and the country’s entry into World War I put an end to the crusade. In addition, the profitability and popularity of the comic strip ensured it would survive despite its critics (201-2).

…And The Ugly! Anthony Comstock, and pages from his 1884 book Traps for the Young. Just so you know: Comstock also wrote a history of contraception.

The introduction of movies created a new target for censors. Film scholars Edward deGrazia and Roger Newman note that almost immediately after the introduction of the silent “photoplays,” concerns were raised about the social effects of films, and various groups began to denounce the irresponsibility of moviemakers. Immigrants and children were of special concern, since

Censors Of The World, Unite! (Left:) By early in the 20th century, self-appointed comic strip censors were up in arms over such outrageousness as the disrespect for parental authority on display in Rudolph Dirks’ popular comic strip The Katzenjammer Kids. This 1900 Sunday half-page was seen in Brian Walker’s 2004 book The Comics before 1945. However, according to comics historian R.C. Harvey, and partly at odds with the statement in Seal of Approval, the first newspaper Sunday supplement devoted primarily to cartoons may have appeared as early as 1893 rather than ’94—although that section (in Joseph Pulitzer’s New York World) also contained “jokes and humorous paragraphs.” And Allan Holtz, proprietor of the online Stripper’s Guide, says that for a supplement devoted “exclusively” to comics, “you’d have to jump well forward to about 1899-1900…. For instance, looking at 1899 editions of the New York World and New York Journal comics sections, each has a half-page to a full page devoted to text jokes interspersed with cartoons. That was typical.” A minor point, and hardly crucial, but we wanted to show how virtually impossible it is to nail down certain “origins” dates precisely. [© the respective copyright holders.] (Right:) In the early 1930s, the Legion of Decency and other groups were incensed by, among many other things, the scantiness of the attire of Johnny Weissmuller and Maureen O’Sullivan in the 1934 MGM film Tarzan and His Mate. The outcome: the 1934 Production Code Administration, which forced Tarz and Jane to cover up in subsequent movies, and which would serve as a model for the Comics Code Authority two decades later. A publicity still was used as the cover of David Fury’s 1994 volume Kings of the Jungle: An Illustrated Reference to “Tarzan” on Screen and Television. [© the respective copyright holders.]

Continuing Our Serialization Of The Landmark Book By Amy Kiste Nyberg

Three For The Road To Adventure Primo panels from three of the top early adventure comic strips, all mentioned in Nyberg’s text: Hal Foster’s Tarzan (for July 3, 1932) and Alex Raymond’s Jungle Jim and Flash Gordon (both for Oct. 7, 1934). The latter two strips originally shared a full Sunday-page spot in newspaper comics sections, and were probably written by Donald W. Moore. Tarzan was scribed by George Carlin, according to Robert Barrett’s 2002 study Tarzan of the Funnies. The Tarzan panel is reproduced from Flying Buttress’ hardcover Tarzan in Color, Vol. 1… the Raymond strips from IDW’s 2011 volume Alex Raymond – Flash Gordon and Jungle Jim 1934 to 1936. [Tarzan panel © Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc.; other panels © King Features Syndicate, Inc.]

risk of lowering their artistic appreciation (Gay 206).

they were considered particularly vulnerable to film’s effects (7). Legislation was introduced as early as 1915 to create a federal film censorship body. The threat of federal censorship led the industry in 1916 to launch its first attempt to police itself. Throughout the 1920s and early 1930s, the film industry struggled with selfregulation, adopting guidelines but failing to devise a way to enforce its standards. The next push for film censorship came from the Catholic Church. In November 1933, at the annual meeting of Catholic bishops, the organization appointed a committee on motion pictures (Martin 32). The committee created the Legion of Decency, a campaign designed to persuade Catholics to boycott ﬁlms that the church felt offended decency and Christian morality. The ﬁlm industry reacted by creating the Production Code Administration in June 1934 and appointing Joseph Breen as its head. Under the new code, studios were forced to submit scripts to Breen for approval and fines were established for violation of the code. Also in the 1930s, concern about comic strips surfaced again as strips shifted their focus from humor to action and adventure. During this decade, strips such as Flash Gordon, Jungle Jim, Tarzan, and others debuted. Many lamented the passing of the “funny” strips, and the popularity of the nonhumorous strip with young readers alarmed some educators and critics. One study published in 1937, an analysis of comic strips appearing in the Boston papers, concluded that many of the adventure strips were not suitable for juvenile consumption. In addition, the researcher argued, children and adults alike who read comic strips regularly ran the

By the end of the decade, though, the popularity of comic books shifted attention to this newest mass medium. The first national attack on comic books came from Sterling North, literary critic for the Chicago Daily News. In an editorial on May 8, 1940, headlined “A National Disgrace,” North noted that almost every child in America was reading comic books. Nearly ten million copies were sold every month, taking a million dollars out of the pockets of children. He examined 108 comics available on the newsstands, concluding that at least 70 percent of them contained material that no respectable newspaper would think of accepting. He argued that the old dime novel could be considered classic literature compared to the comic book, which he described as “badly drawn, badly written and badly printed—a strain on young eyes and young nervous systems ... [that] spoil a child’s natural sense of color, their hypodermic injection of sex and murder make the child impatient with better, though quieter stories.” North concluded his editorial by calling for parents to become aware of what their children were reading and to furnish a good substitute. He wrote: “The antidote to the ‘comic’ magazine poison can be found in any library or good bookstore. The parent who does not acquire that antidote for his child is guilty of criminal negligence.” More than forty newspapers and magazines reprinted the editorial. The Daily News reportedly received twenty-five million requests for reprints of the editorial for distribution in churches and schools across the country, and letters supporting North’s crusade against the comic book poured into the newspaper office. Nearly a year later, the newspaper was still receiving an average of one thousand requests a day for reprints of the editorial (Frakes 1350; North 16).

Bet Their Names Aren’t Rocky & Rocket! Literary critic Sterling North and friends. He had authored a very popular children’s book titled Rascal, about a boy and his pet raccoon. See more about North in Alter Ego #105’s “Tales from the Code,” Part 1.

North’s objection to comic books has its basis in the reaction of cultural elites to popular culture. High culture is valued for its individuality and aesthetic complexity, whereas popular culture is dismissed because of its mass distribution and its perceived lack of literary or artistic merit. North believed there could be little value in a comic book produced quickly and cheaply for mass consumption and profit. This elitist criticism was influential in shaping public attitudes toward comics, since it was the opinions of the elite, quoted by newspaper and magazine journalists as experts, that appeared in print. Another significant aspect of North’s criticism

Seal Of Approval: The History Of The Comics Code—Chapter 1

was his identification of the comic book specifically as a form of juvenile literature, despite the fact there is nothing inherent in the form itself that limits its appeal to children. Comic strips, which share many of the same characteristics of comic books, are considered appropriate reading for all ages. By first identifying and then denigrating the comic book as a form of juvenile literature, North and other critics were instrumental in helping to shape public perception that comics books were exclusively for children.

The Great Comic Book Herald The most celebrated action characters of the Golden Age are shown on Bob Sikoryak’s cover for Fantagraphics’ reprinting of Jules Feiffer’s 1965 book/essay titled—what else?—The Great Comic Book Heroes. The 2003 edition didn’t include the vintage stories that had graced the original edition, but virtually all of those are now in print elsewhere anyway— something we doubt cartoonist/satirist Feiffer expected when he wrote the original overview. But then, neither did anybody else! We’re just pleased that, for once, DC and Marvel allowed their heroes to appear on the same cover. [Superman, Clark Kent, Batman, Wonder Woman, Hawkman, Spectre, Flash, Green Lantern, Plastic Man, & Shazam hero TM & © DC Comics; Human Torch, Captain America, and Sub-Mariner TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.; The Spirit TM & © Will Eisner Studios, Inc.; Sheena TM & © Paul Aratow or successors in interest.]

This marginalization of comic books, then, goes beyond the issue of high versus popular culture and beyond consideration of form. Two factors are at work. First, reading context played a part in North’s rejection of the comic book. Comic strips appeared in newspapers, which gave the comic strip a legitimacy not enjoyed by comic books. On the other hand, children became the primary purchasers of comic books, which attached a certain stigma to adult comic reading. The second factor had to do with the comic book industry’s emphasis on the superhero genre during the early years of comic book publishing. The dominance of the superhero characters was largely responsible for creating the strictly juvenile audience for comic books. When Superman proved to be enormously popular with children and therefore extremely profitable, publishers rushed to flood the market with their own version of the superhero. Before long, other genres that might have attracted an older readership were crowded out or abandoned. While the superhero has occasionally attracted a wider audience, evidenced by the success of the campy Batman television show in the 1960s and the more recent revivals of Superman and Batman in film and on television, the traditional superhero comic of the Golden Age seemed to have little appeal for adults.

One other aspect of North’s editorial merits discussion: his failure to recognize an essential difference between traditional children’s literature and the comic book. To North and other critics, comic books were just a new kind of juvenile literature with too many illustrations and not enough text. But these critics were

mistaken. The comic book was a new medium altogether, a medium that relied on the interaction of words and pictures to tell stories in a unique way, with its own highly developed conventions of interpretation that bore more resemblance to film than to literature or drawing. Reading comic books was teaching young readers a whole new vocabulary, one that was largely foreign to adults, because adult readers did not immerse themselves deeply enough in this new cultural form to learn its language. The conflict over comic books became generational, not unlike the battle that raged later over rock ‘n’ roll. While the public attention to comics generated by North died down, the arguments in North’s editorial resonated with opinions and attitudes held by teachers and librarians and inspired a lively dialogue about the problem of comic books in their professional journals. Some educators rejected comics outright and sought to ban them from classroom and home, but the majority, perhaps more realistically, looked upon comics as a challenge to teachers, librarians, and parents, who needed to understand children’s attraction to comics and then find substitutes for the undesirable leisure reading material. The journal articles reiterated North’s assertion that children could be weaned from comic books if teachers and parents presented them with attractive and appropriate juvenile literature. Dozens of articles in the professional journals proposed various strategies for how to win the battle against comic books.

“Heroes And Supermen” Not that all three of the above particular editions were necessarily in print when a St. Louis librarian was trying to wean young kids from Superman, Captain Marvel, and Captain America to “Robin Hood, Baron Munchhausen, and Paul Bunyan”—but we hope some of the youngsters read these, too. Hey, by now, for all we know, Alan Moore may have drafted this trio into the latest incarnation of The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen! [© the respective copyright holders.]

For example, the Wilson Library Bulletin reported that a St. Louis librarian was waging a simple, but successful, campaign against “the highly colored enemy.” To entice young readers away from comic books, the librarian selected various juvenile titles and displayed them on shelves labeled “Funny Books” and

Continuing Our Serialization Of The Landmark Book By Amy Kiste Nyberg

“Heroes and Supermen.” Instead of finding the adventures of Clark Kent, alias Superman, children were handed books about Robin Hood, Baron Munchhausen, and Paul Bunyan (“Comic Menace” 846-47). In another article, librarians were encouraged to place new emphasis on book presentation and storytelling hours. In addition, teachers and parents were advised to pay more attention to the “non-literary, non-aesthetic child” in order to encourage the reluctant reader (Bechtel 300-303). Teachers, too, were drawn into the war against comic books. One high school English teacher compiled a list of books that might be offered as alternatives to comics, characterizing his task as “missionary work among my comic-book heathens” (Dias 14345). An Arizona teacher had her freshman English class analyze the comic books they read and generate a list of reading material that had the same appeal as the comics but that, at the same time, was more acceptable. She concluded that since these suggestions came directly from the students themselves, teachers would be able to provide substitutes that were as attractive as comic books. This “gradual substitution,” rather than an outright prohibition, would be the most effective strategy against comic book reading (Kinneman 333-35). One solution to the comic book “problem” came from the publishers themselves, in the form of educational comics. The publishers of Parents’ Magazine announced in its March 1941 issue that they were entering the comic book publishing business. The magazine reproduced the North editorial, and editor Clara Savage Littledale added: “It was widely reprinted. But nothing really happened. Now, however, the publishers of Parents’ Magazine are doing something about it. They have launched, as a substitute, a really good well-drawn comic magazine entitled True Comics” (26). The publishers of True Comics argued that children liked comic books because they were colorful and their format was quick and easy to read. In addition, the stories offered adventure, tales of daring and courage, and a chance for hero worship. The publishers pointed out that trying to substitute good books did not work; children read the books but keep right on reading comics, too. Banning comics did not work because children could read them at a friend’s house. The answer was to substitute reading material that offered all of the same features of the comic book but substituted desirable content (Littledale 26). The first issue of True Comics featured ’Tis True, ’Tis True! “real life heroes” With an April 1941 cover date, Parents’ such as Winston Magazine Press launched its “reality” title, True Churchill and Simon Comics. Artist unknown. Thanks to the Grand Bolivar. Comics Database for this and numerous other covers used with this serialization. [© the respective copyright holders.]

Littledale believed that parents and

teachers would approve of the comics because of their educational value, while children would be delighted with the pictures and stories about “real” people. To add respectability, the publishers of True Comics appointed a junior advisory board of youthful movie stars, among them Shirley Temple and Mickey Rooney, to make sure the magazines would appeal to children, and a senior advisory board featuring such luminaries as George H. Gallup, director of the Institute of Public Opinion; David Muzzey, emeritus professor of history at Columbia University; and Littledale.

One For All, And All For 10¢ 1941 also saw the first issue of Gilberton’s Classic Comics, with its adaptation of Alexandre Dumas’ novel The Three Musketeers. Art by Malcolm Kildale of Lloyd Jacquet’s Funnies, Inc. comics studio. [© 2013 First Classics, Inc. All rights reserved.]

The first issue was a success. Publishers Weekly reported the comic sold 300,000 copies ten days after its publication in early March, and the Canadian edition of 40,000, titled True Picture Magazine, was also a sellout. An extra 10,000 copies were printed for American distribution and an extra 25,000 for Canadian distribution. Although the comic was scheduled to come out every two months, sales convinced the publishers to issue the comic book monthly. Publisher George Hecht actively promoted his new company by releasing circulation figures showing the impact an educational comic could have. At a luncheon hosted by Parents’ Magazine during Children’s Book Week in October 1941, Hecht told his audience that children between the ages of nine and fourteen spent 75 percent of their leisure time reading comic books. The industry offered 125 different titles on more than 100,000 newsstands. Fifteen million comic books were sold a month, adding up to 180 million a year. Hecht compared those figures to the sales figures for children’s books, where sales of 5,000 copies of a title was considered good. A competitor entered the field of educational comics in fall 1941 with Classic Comics; the title of the series would be changed in 1947 to Classics Illustrated. In these comics, publisher Albert Kanter adapted literary classics into comic-book format. By 1946, the company had produced 28 titles and sold about 100 million copies. More than 20,000 schools reported using the comic books. They were also sold on the newsstands, in department stores, and in bookshops (“Classic Comics” 1736). In 1942, Max Gaines, who edited the All-American Comics line for National Comics, brought out Picture Stories from the Bible, which won Catholic sanction and approval from an advisory board of Protestants and Jews. Each story was prefaced with appropriate citations for finding it in the Old Testament (“Biblical Comic” 55). Also in 1942, a comic book designed for distribution in Catholic schools, Topix Comics, was published and featured stories about the pope and about Catholic saints and also included biblical stories (Doyle 556).

Seal Of Approval: The History Of The Comics Code—Chapter 1

The Bible Gaines A Foothold In Comics Debuting for Fall 1942 was M.C. Gaines’ (and All-American Comics’) Picture Stories from the Bible – Old Testament #1, with cover art by Lou Cameron. [© William M. Gaines Agent, Inc.]

The addition of the “educational comic” brought a new dimension to the debate. While there had been nearly universal agreement that better literature should be substituted for comic books, educators were divided over whether introducing a comic book with educational content was a satisfactory compromise. Some educators objected to the form as well as the content of the medium. For example, a Wilson Library Bulletin editorial reminded teachers and librarians that their job was to train

Topix Of Conversation The only issue of the Catholic-published-and-distributed Topix Comics for which we could find scans is Vol. 5, #4 (Dec. 1947)—with thanks to the ComicBookPlus website, which we recommend to one and all who’re interested in mostly public-domain comics reading. The publisher was the Catechetical Guild Educational Society, operating out of St. Paul, Minnesota. The comic was a mix of “serious” and “cartoon” stories. The credits for the cover and lead story, alas, are unknown. [© the respective copyright holders.]

children how to read and make them want to read good literature. The practice of “fighting comics with comics,” while an improvement, did nothing to eliminate the crudeness of the medium with its bad taste in color and design and its sensationalism. The Bulletin editorial argued that the comics reader was “a damaged child, incapacitated for enjoyment of the more serene pleasures of the imagination.” It concluded by expressing skepticism that the “children would be taken in by the attempt to convert their favorite leisure activity to an educational one, noting, “The reaction of children of my own acquaintance to True Comics is that it is a pale imitation of ‘the real thing.’” (“Libraries, to Arms!” 670). Louise Seaman Bechtel, writing for The Horn Book, called the Parents’ Magazine publication a remarkable experiment, but hoped that that magazine would keep its cheap price and informational content while gradually dropping its “imitation comics approach” (298). Others, however, approved of the new venture. An editorial in The Educational Forum titled “Our Comic Culture” suggested that in a society that has been conditioned by motion pictures to acquire information visually, the comic book could serve an educational function. The author suggested that educators were “cultural isolationists” who needed to make an impartial evaluation of mass culture. The editorial concluded, “The comic on the newsstand can show us not a little about how to teach” (84). The popularity of comic books with youthful readers and the ongoing debate among educators brought the comic book to the attention of the academic community. Since the introduction of

Continuing Our Serialization Of The Landmark Book By Amy Kiste Nyberg

content of the word balloons. She concluded that the English found in comic strips carried over into the language of children “too often to be attributed to chance.” This influence was reflected in their use of “faulty English” and the inclusion of stars, exclamation points, and dashes to express profanity and strong language (63-64). However, a study done by Robert Thorndike, an education researcher at Columbia University, of vocabulary used in the most popular comic books revealed that the bulk of language in comics was standard English rather than slang. Comics averaged about ten thousand words of reading matter, refuting the assumption that comics were all pictures and very little text. The reading difficulty was a fifth- or sixth-grade reading level, consistent with the age group with whom the comics were most popular. Thorndike concluded that comics provided a substantial amount of reading material at a level appropriate for a child in the upper elementary grades or junior high school (113). A survey of fourth, fifth, and sixth grade students in Philadelphia in 1938 completed by George E. Hill and M. Estelle Trent showed that the average child read about twenty-three comic strips all the time and reported reading ten more sometimes. Although white children read more comics than black children, the researchers concluded that this was because black children were from homes that did not take the newspaper or subscribed to fewer newspapers. They also found girls read fewer comic strips than boys. When questioned about why they liked comics, the children said they were exciting and full of action. The element of humor played a minor role in their enjoyment. In comparing the reasons given for reading comics to the reasons given (in other research) for selecting movies and radio, the researchers found that reasons given were similar. Noting that theirs was an exploratory study, Hill and Trent called for a more thorough analysis of the field and suggested that studies be done to determine what effect comics had on children’s conduct (36).

Y’see? Thass Jus’ Wot I Wuz Tellin’ Ya! In his article “Words and the Comics” in a 1941 issue of the Journal of Experimental Education, Robert L. Thorndike (see photo on p. 49) reported that, while comic books did utilize slang in spots, they used standard English for the most part—as on this page that contains both, scripted by Jerry Siegel and drawn by the Joe Shuster shop for Superman #5 (Summer 1940). The page is repro’d from the hardcover Superman Archives, Vol. 2. Thorndike would soon become a member of SupermanDC’s Editorial Advisory Board. [Page © DC Comics.]

comic books, teachers and librarians had been making assumptions about the impact of comics on children’s reading. These assumptions can be summarized as follows: comics tend to crowd out reading of a more desirable type; they are too easy to read and spoil the taste for better reading; the adventures are so fantastic that children do not acquire an understanding of the world that comes from better literature; there is little progression of reading experience in comics; the artwork is of inferior quality; and the books are poorly printed on cheap paper and hard on the eyes. Early academic studies focused on establishing reliable readership figures for various age groups and on investigations of the relationship between comics and the development of reading skills such as vocabulary. Some of these studies were of comic strips rather than comic books, with researchers arguing that comic books were basically collections of the strips and conclusions about one could be applied to the other. One of the first studies, done by Florence Brumbaugh, examined the effects of comic strips upon the written English of children. She asked eight hundred New York City school children between the ages of eight and thirteen to draw a cartoon and then analyzed the

In 1941 researcher Paul Witty, whose research efforts would dominate the academic inquiry into comic books over the next two decades, published the first of several readership studies. Witty’s interest in comics went back to the 1920s, when he and H. C. Lehman published The Psychology of Play Activities, which devoted a portion of one chapter to a readership study of the Sunday funnies. In that research, Witty and Lehman found that reading the funnies was the most popular play activity A Witty Response for children ages eight Prof. Paul Witty was, as per Dr. Nyberg, one to fifteen (Witty, “whose research efforts would dominate the “Children’s Interest” inquiry into comic books over the next two 100). He began his decades” after the turn of the 1940s. For the research into comic photo, we thank Janet Olsen, Assistant University Archiver at the Northwestern University Library, book readership with Evanston, Illinois, where Witty’s papers are kept. a study of the same [© the respective copyright holders.]

Seal Of Approval: The History Of The Comics Code—Chapter 1

“Crude, Absurd, Over-Stimulating” As Amy Nyberg records, Scholastic magazine felt in the early 1940s that comic books were “crude, absurd, over-stimulating, and take time which could well be spent on something else. Why do children read them?” Seems to us that the Jack Kirbypenciled cover of Timely’s Captain America Comics #1 (March 1941) should answer all those questions in a glance—but maybe that’s just us. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

age group on which Hill and Trent focused: upper elementary students. His findings, based on surveys and interviews with students in the Chicago suburb of Evanston, suggested that the conclusions Hill and Trent reached about comic strip readership could also be applied to comic books. Witty discovered that reading comic books was the most popular of all reading pursuits, and children chose comics that provided excitement and adventure over humorous ones. In addition, the appeal of comic books was seen to be similar to that of cinema and radio.

In the same issue of Journal of Experimental Education, Witty published a study that compared heavy and light readers of comic books to test the validity of the assumption that comic book reading was harmful and should be discouraged. What he found was that in terms of intelligence, academic achievement, and social adjustment, there was no difference between the two groups. Witty studied their reading patterns and discovered that the amount of comic book reading did not significantly affect the other types of reading done by the children. In fact, some of the heavier readers were following reading programs that were “varied, rich and generally commendable,” while other children who read few comics had inadequate reading patterns (“Reading the Comics” 105-9). One concern about comic books supported by research was the accusation that they were bad for children’s eyes. Matthew Luckiesh and Frank K. Moss conducted studies on twenty-four comic books and found they failed visibility tests. Comic book lettering was poor and of small size, the printing and paper were of poor quality, the lettering was often placed on a colored background, and the word balloons lacked adequate spacing between lines of dialogue. Luckiesh and Moss’s conclusion: “Comic books represent a great step backward in safeguarding the eyesight of children” (24). This review of early research suggests that most of the critics exaggerated the effects of comics. Reading comic books, even to the exclusion of other activities, seemed to make little difference in reading skills, academic achievement, or social adjustment. The attacks against comic books persisted, however. Critics, ignoring the research findings, continued to insist that comic book reading

was harmful and that parents and educators should do whatever they could to re-direct their children’s interest in the medium. Even Witty, in summarizing his research in National Parent-Teacher, downplayed the results of his research, suggesting that it would be a mistake to assume that comic books were harmless. Although his research revealed no immediate effects on academic achievement or behavior, he believed that children were developing reading tastes that were “far from desirable” and that comic book reading contributed to “a decline in artistic appreciation and a tolerance of shoddy experience and language.” Witty recommended to parents that the rehabilitation of children who have “this problem” (reading comics) could be accomplished by providing a good selection of children’s books at home and making an effort to encourage reading that is “accurate, dependable and sound” (30). Why did adults find children’s preoccupation with comic books disturbing, despite evidence that suggests that it was an apparently harmless leisure activity? An analysis of the criticism suggests two reasons why many adults continued to attack the comics: first, adults believed that children’s leisure time should be spent in constructive activities that would improve either their mental or physical well-being; and second, adults were genuinely puzzled over why children were attracted to something adults perceived as crude, simplistic, and lacking in any literary or artistic merit. For example, an article in Catholic World, arguing that a desire to read comic books was neither normal nor necessary, asserted that parents who allowed their children to read comic books demonstrated that they have “lost control” of the child. Comic book reading was characterized as a waste of time and money. The article added: “But such waste is inevitable in children who have not been taught to use their leisure for work as well as play” Parents must realize that “every time their children sit down to peruse a comic book their own failure as parents is being exposed” (Doyle 556-57). In a New Republic article by former Vogue editor Marya Mannes, spurred by her eight-year-old son’s “addiction” to comic books, Mannes wrote that she rationed him to two a week. Her objections to comics echoed the criticism leveled against them in the professional press. She disapproved of her son’s reading because comic books required no effort, no concentration, no imagination, and no thought: “They are, in fact the greatest intellectual narcotic on the market.” She also asserted that comic book reading was a waste of time that could be spent “learning, playing, or dreaming.” Instead, Mannes wrote, “Every hour spent in reading comics is an hour in which all inner growth is stopped” (20-22). Calling comic book reading “a perversion of American tradition” because of comics’ emphasis on wish fulfillment, James Landsdowne condemned comic books for creating children who were daydreamers and loafers. He concluded that getting rid of comic books would bring children back in touch with reality, a necessary step in preventing “a country of doers from becoming a country of leaners” in order to keep democracy strong (14-15). In addition to condemning comics as a waste of leisure time, much of the space in articles about comic books was devoted to offering explanations for why children found comic books attractive. Once those reasons were discovered, parents and educators could then substitute good juvenile literature. For example, Scholastic magazine wrote that comic books were “crude, absurd, over-stimulating, and take time which could well be spent on something else. Why do children read them?” The author suggested that comic books fill a void in children’s lives for adventure and heroic tales, and that comic books were easy to get used to since they followed naturally from the comic strips that children and their parents had read. Finally, comics were popular because parents have failed to purchase good books for their

Continuing Our Serialization Of The Landmark Book By Amy Kiste Nyberg

Advice And Consent On the inside front covers of its comics dated Dec. 1941, “Superman-DC Publications” lauded its new Editorial Advisory Board, which had been introduced the previous month. Because the above page was scanned from Ye Editor’s bound copy of All-Star Comics #8 (Dec. 1941-Jan. 1942), a bit of text may be lost at the right margin, but we figure it’s still readable. Mini-bios of the board’s early members can be seen on the opposite page. [© DC Comics.]

Seal Of Approval: The History Of The Comics Code—Chapter 1

Dr. C. Bowie Millican (1899-?) We were unable to learn much about this professor of English literature, except that he wrote a 1932 book titled Spenser and the Table Round: A Study in the Contemporaneous Background for Spenser’s Use of the Arthurian Legend. It was a study of Elizabethan poet Edmund Spenser’s long, unfinished poem The Faerie Queen. No photos surfaced, alas.

Dr. William Moulton Marston (1893-1947) Josette Frank (1893-1989) Josette Frank, 1978. In 1997 the annual Children’s Book Award, presented by the Children’s Book Committee at Bank Street College of Education, New York City, was renamed the Josette Frank Award. A postscript on the All-Star #8 page mentions a radio address by Frank, a transcription of which DC offered to send to anyone upon request. Comics historian Ken Quattro is currently researching Frank’s life and career for his blog—and, we’re happy to say, for a near-future issue of Alter Ego.

Dr. Marston (1893-1947) was the main person behind the “Charles Moulton” pseudonym that was credited with the creation of Wonder Woman— whose debut had been squeezed into the very issue of All-Star (#8) in which this board was listed. His credentials, which don’t mention that he was also a coinventor of the lie detector, are detailed on that page. Having just become a writer for DC (or, technically, for its sister company All-American Comics), he would soon resign from the advisory board.

children. Two solutions were proposed: first, adults should supply other picture books that would give the child what he finds in the ‘comics’ without its “harmful effects”; second, publishers should develop a wide range of books available at a low price (Aldrich T-1).

Ruth Eastwood Perl (1905-?) This psychologist was the author, among other things, of The Effect of Practice upon Individual Differences (1933), a 55-page study… though we’re not quite certain what of. After 1942, she was no longer listed as a member of the advisory board. Again, no photo available.

Dr. W.W.D. Sones (1912-?) For some reason, the DC page omitted the “D.” initial which was usually listed as part of the name of this University of Pittsburgh professor. In 1944 he would author the article “The Comics and Instructional Method” for the Journal of Educational Psychology, Vol. 18, No. 4. See facing page for additional bio information. No photo.

Nine reasons were listed for why children liked comics in an article appearing in the September 1942 issue of The School Executive. The author, an elementary teacher, noted that while the adult’s viewpoint on the comic magazine had been widely publicized, educators should focus instead on what children believe about comics. He interviewed students in the fourth through seventh grades to produce his list. Among the reasons children gave for reading comics were that they were cheap, exciting, amusing, and easy to read; that children enjoyed collecting them; that children were unaware of other books available; and that children read them because all the other children were reading them. The author concluded that he did not condone comic magazines because they were terrible literature, influencing children’s reading tastes and making children “bloodthirsty” (Reynolds 17). One freshman English teacher, Harriet E. Lee, asked her students to keep track of all unassigned reading and wrote that the results were “disturbing” because comic books topped the list. Lee incorporated units on comic books into her class work, drawing several conclusions from the students’ work and her own observations: comic books are escape literature, discouraging the realistic facing of problems and encouraging wishful thinking; students who read comics exclusively were immature; and comic books fail to provide the “spiritual uplift” and “fine thinking” present in fine writing. Other teachers were encouraged to teach students to be

Dr. Robert L. Thorndike (1910-1990) A professor at Teachers College, Columbia University, NYC, Thorndike was, according to Wikipedia, “a psychometrician and educational psychologist who made significant contributions to the analysis of reliability, the interpretation of error, cognitive ability, and the design and analysis of comparative surveys of achievement-test performances of students in various countries” and a coauthor of the widely used Cognitive Abilities Test. If that didn’t qualify him for DC’s advisory board, we don’t know what would!

James Joseph “Gene” Tunney (1897-1978) Boxing’s Heavyweight Champion of the World from 1926-28. Having been a Marine during the First World War, he was commissioned a commander in the U.S. Naval Reserve in the lead-up to America’s entry into World War II. As per facing page, he was also big with youth in 1941.

discriminating in their selection of magazines and to steer students away from the comics (678).

In an experiment in the Toledo Public Library, librarians selected twenty-five comic books that could only be read in the library and displayed them next to popular books featuring adventure and humor that could be checked out. The children invariably selected books to check out and then took comic books off the rack to read. Librarian Ethel Wright noted the children “were entirely unaware of the literary difference between the two types of reading material which had been made available to them.” When librarians questioned children about why they liked comics, they reported the children were “almost inarticulate” and answered in an off-handed manner that they thought the comic books were funny or exciting or interesting (833).

While they were in the minority, some educators took a more optimistic attitude toward the new medium. They felt that comic books presented a unique opportunity for educators to adapt the techniques to classroom use, using comics as a “stepping stone” or “bridge” to better reading. Ruth Strang, who interviewed and surveyed children ranging from first graders to high school seniors, reported that children believed parents took comics too seriously. The children themselves offered a variety of reasons for liking comics. Among them were the desire for adventure and suspense, the desire for relaxation and escape, the comics’ use of art and color, and their low price. Strang concluded that educators, rather than seeking to eliminate comics, should instead work for their improvement and utilize them as an educational tool, advocating moderation rather than abstinence, recognizing that comics meet the needs of children at certain stages of development

Continuing Our Serialization Of The Landmark Book By Amy Kiste Nyberg

understand the attraction of comics, they argued, it would be useless to try to substitute other reading or even to select children’s comic books for them (117).

Pearl S. Buck (1892-1973)

Alice Marble (1913-1990) In 1941 she was still a top-ranked American tennis player. Marble was touted by DC as the “Associate Editor” of the “Wonder Woman” feature, and as the official host (and even author) of the “Wonder Women of History” stories that ran in Wonder Woman beginning with #1 in 1942. She’s seen here in a publicity shot printed in Sensation Comics #9 (Sept. 1942). In mid-1944 her name was added to the Editorial Advisory Board listed in all DC issues. [© DC Comics.]

(342). Josette Frank, a staff advisor on children’s books for the Child Study Association of America, took a moderate stance, suggesting in an article in Progressive Education that comic books had potential in teaching reading in schools. She noted that the language, in terms of difficulty as measured by school standards, was quite respectable. In addition, children could be taught to evaluate their own comics on the basis of story content and good taste (“People” 30). In the spring 1942 issue of Child Study, the official publication of the Association, Frank expanded this idea, pointing out that children should not be made to feel self-conscious and apologetic about their reading tastes. Exposure to a wide range of reading materials was the way in which children learned to differentiate and discriminate among them. She added, “If we use their comics wisely and tolerantly we will find that their young readers will progress to other books and other heroes which will serve these same interests” (76, 90). In the same publication a year later, Frank (writing with Mrs. Hugh Grant Straus) addressed the issue of use of leisure time: “These are a waste of time only if we Dr. Harvey W. Zorbaugh (1896-1965) believe that children’s hours must all be spent in (Right:) This professor of education at New York University and editor of the Journal of ways which will be Educational Sociology was, Nyberg reports, educationally and “one of the staunchest defenders of comic culturally profitable.” books.” He wrote an article which referred to Frank and Straus pointed “the amazing cultural phenomenon of the out that adults do not growth of the comics” and called them a know what the children “great new medium of communication and get from comics “that social influence.” He also served on Fawcett seems to them so Publications’ Editorial Advisory Board, rewarding.” Until musing on matters related to Captain Marvel rather than to Superman and Wonder Woman. educators and parents

American writer and novelist. The child of missionaries, Buck spent most of her first four decades in China. Her novel The Good Earth was the best-selling fiction book in the U.S. in 1931-32 and won the Pulitzer Prize in 1933. In 1938 she was awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature. In fall of 1944 her name was added to DC’s Editorial Advisory Board. In later years she became, as per Wikipedia, “a prominent advocate of the rights of women and minority groups, and wrote widely on Asian culture, becoming particularly well known for her efforts on behalf of Asian and mixed-race adoption.” A wonder woman, indeed!

W.W.D. Sones, a professor of education at the University of Pittsburgh, advocated incorporating comics into classroom instruction. Comics could be especially helpful in working with slow readers and those students who were disinterested and sometimes rebellious toward school subjects presented in a more formal way, Sones argued. He provided a list of activities that incorporated comics in instruction of language, social studies, science, math, and art. He noted, “There are better books to read than comics, but this current outof-school activity may be exploited to improve reading skills, broaden informational backgrounds, and by comparison and contrast, lead to other and more acceptable tastes in reading” (14).

Some educators offered a more spirited defense of comics. Two children’s librarians, in an article published in Library Journal in March 1942, suggested that adults were being “Victorian” and should abandon the idea that children are “wistful-eyed little darlings who are instinctively and innately delicate, untouched by the world.” The reasons children gave for reading comic books amounted to “nothing but a normal love of excitement, adventure and hero worship”;

Major Alford Joseph Williams (1896-1958) (Above:) This pioneer of American aviation served in the Marine Corps during World War I, broke numerous air-speed records in the 1920s, and helped develop the technique called “dive-bombing.” Forced to resign from the Marines because he advocated a separate Air Force (which was not destined to materialize until 1947), he joined the Army Air Corps and trained pilots during World War II. He also served on Fawcett’s Editorial Advisory Board.

Seal Of Approval: The History Of The Comics Code—Chapter 1

their reactions to comics were natural, since “it is entirely human to be excited about the unusual or the sensational.” Most children’s books, on the other hand, are written down to childish levels, and strive to be correct, innocuous, and entertaining all at the same time, the authors argued. While they agreed that comic books represented a mass literature that was “not particularly distinctive,” they did not believe it was harmful (Williams and Wilson 204-6). One of the staunchest defenders of comic books was Harvey Zorbaugh, a professor of education at New York University and editor of the Journal of Educational Sociology. The December 1944 issue of the journal was devoted to the topic of comic books, and Zorbaugh put together a collection of articles that took a generally moderate position on comic book reading. Authors included Sidonie Matsner Gruenberg, director of the Child Study Association of America; her colleague, Josette Frank; child psychiatrist Lauretta Bender; and W.W.D. Sones of the University of Pittsburgh. Zorbaugh opened the issue with an editorial that reprinted Sterling North’s attack on comic books and added: “It is

Conscience Doth Make Heroes Of Us All Dr. Lauretta Bender (1897-1987), a child neuropsychiatrist, is best known for developing the Bender-Gestalt test, considered to be a measure of perceptual motor skills and development. In 1941, says Nyberg, she and colleague Reginald Lourie “described comic books as modern folklore.” She was also, beginning with Summer 1944 issues, a member of Superman-DC’s Editorial Advisory Board. Her life and career were covered in detail by Michael T. Gilbert in Alter Ego #87, 88, & 90. [Photo © Peter Schilder.] In All-Star Comics #22 (Fall 1944), only the mag’s second issue after Bender joined the board, the stalwarts of the Justice Society of America journeyed into the past to help mankind conquer its prejudices at the behest of a good fairy called Conscience. Coincidence? We report… you decide! Script by Gardner F. Fox; art by Joe Gallagher. Repro’d from Ye Editor’s bound volume; hence the slight loss of art & text at extreme left. [© DC Comics.]

time the amazing cultural phenomenon of the growth of the comics is subjected to dispassionate scrutiny. Somewhere between vituperation and complacency must be found a road to the understanding and use of this great new medium of communication and social influence. For the comics are here to stay” (“Editorial” 194). The comic book publishers capitalized on this moderate attitude on the part of some educators, appointing them to advisory boards in an effort to counteract criticism. For example, the Superman-DC Comics Board included child psychiatrist Lauretta Bender, and education professors W.W.D. Sones, Robert Thorndike, and C. Bowie Millican. Pearl S. Buck and Gene Tunney also served as board members. The Fawcett Editorial Advisory Board included Sidonie M. Gruenberg of the Child Study Association, education professors Harvey Zorbaugh and Ernest G. Osborne, and Maj. Al Williams, a famous aviator and author (Abelson “Comics Part II” 82). This strategy would later backfire; the experts who defended comics were denounced by critics as “paid apologists” for the industry (see chap. 3).

The Whiz Kids While Dr. Zorbaugh and Major Williams served on Fawcett’s Editorial Advisory Board at some time, the contents page of Whiz Comics #34 (Sept. 4, 1942) listed four different worthies: Mrs. Eleanor Roosevelt, wife of President Franklin D…. Rear Admiral Richard E. Byrd (polar explorer)… Dr. Allan Roy DaFoe… and the Reverend John W. Tynan. From the looks of this page, the four may have been recruited by Captain Marvel and his three Lieutenants Marvel. Art by the C.C. Beck shop. [Shazam heroes TM & © DC Comics.]

Lauretta Bender and her colleague Reginald Lourie, child psychiatrists at Bellevue Hospital, were the first psychiatrists to go on record about comic books. At a psychiatric association meeting they presented a paper on comic books that was published in the American Journal of Orthopsychiatry in July 1941. Their study was undertaken partly because of the growing concern of parents and educators about comic books and partly to test clinical observations made about disturbed children who also were comic book readers. Bender and Lourie described comic books as modern folklore, noting that the omnipotent superheroes had their parallels in fairy tales; replacing magic with science was simply expressing basic ideas in contemporary terms. Comic books, with their excitement and adventure, offered a type of mental catharsis to young readers that served a healthy purpose. Bender and Lourie concluded: “The chief conflict over comic books is in the adult’s mind” (547-48). These findings were given wider circulation when a summary of Bender and Lourie’s research was published in Science News Letter August 23, 1941, with the headline: “Let Children Read Comics; Science Gives Its Approval” (124). The Bender and Lourie study also would be widely cited in subsequent articles about comics.

Continuing Our Serialization Of The Landmark Book By Amy Kiste Nyberg

These psychiatrists and others who tried to analyze the appeal of comic books by looking for parallels between comic book superheroes and other heroic figures failed to realize that the superhero represented a new heroic archetype. Although those who created the costumed heroes drew on the popular culture of the day, the superhero was a new concept; so new, in fact, that the term superhero was not coined until several years after the appearance of Superman, the first comic book superhero. Superhero characters set comic books apart from the other media and contributed to the comic book’s growth from a newsstand novelty item to a mass medium. In hindsight, it is easy to see the impact these superheroes had on American popular culture as the superhero is updated and reinvented for each new generation. Except for a brief time in postwar America, the superhero genre has dominated comic book publishing. Rather than trying to determine how comic book superheroes were like other heroic figures in American

culture, educators and researchers should have studied the ways in which superheroes are different. Answering those questions would have helped explain the appeal of the superhero and would have gone a long way toward demonstrating why attempts by critics to substitute other reading material were doomed to failure. One generalization about the criticism of comic books that can be made from this analysis of both professional and academic journal articles is that academic researchers were generally more tolerant and supportive of comic book reading than teachers and librarians. This might have been due in part to the familiarity the academics had with research that suggested many of the assumptions held about comic books were not valid. Also, they were more removed from the “problem” of the presence of comic books in children’s everyday lives, while teachers and parents were faced with making decisions about comics in the classroom or home. Criticism by educators and some academics attracted only intermittent public attention in the 1930s and early 1940s. Not until the end of the war would attacks on comics lead to a public demand for action. The most frequently advanced explanation for this delay is that the content of comic books shifted as the industry searched for new ways to entice readers who had lost interest in the colorful costumed superheroes who peopled the pages of the comic books prior to and during the war. The publishers turned to the familiar genres of pulp fiction for their ideas and produced, among others, comic books that featured themes of crime and horror. Although superhero comic book violence took place in fantastic, fictional worlds, the crime and horror comic book stories were acted out in very realistic settings. When this violence was rendered quite graphically and sold to children by an industry that had fewer restrictions than film, radio, or television, these “new” comic books brought down the wrath of the public on an industry that many felt had gone too far in its search for profits.

You Gotta Be A Super-Hero… When she wrote Seal of Approval in the late 1990s, author Amy Nyberg, like the rest of us, had every reason to believe that “the term superhero was not coined until several years after the appearance of Superman.” Nowadays, however, thanks to the late Les Daniels’ 1998 book Superman: The Complete History—published the same year as Nyberg’s study—we know that Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster had used the phrase “The Greatest Super-Hero of All Time!” on a Superman conceptual page they had prepared in 1936—two years before the publication of Action Comics #1! Of course, virtually no one saw that sheet for six decades. If the term “super-hero” saw print—in a comic book or anywhere else—prior to Simon & Kirby’s first “Newsboy Legion” (and Guardian) story in DC’s Star Spangled Comics #7 (April 1942), we sure wish somebody’d tell us about it! Repro’d from DC’s 2010 hardcover The Newsboy Legion by Joe Simon & Jack Kirby, Volume One. That one belongs in every comics fan’s library! [© DC Comics.]

While shifts in public taste and the resulting publishing trends certainly played a part in feeding the controversy that sprung up around this new medium, there are several other possible explanations for why comic books did not attract sustained public attention until after the war. First, comic books were not the product of a new technology in the same way that film, radio, and television were. Early comic books were reprints of comic strips, which had been part of American culture throughout the twentieth century. The “old” technology posed fewer threats than the new electronic media. In addition, public concern about mass media often has roots in the research done by academics, and most scholars engaged in mass media research during this period focused more intensely on the electronic media. Such investigations dominated the academic discourse about media effects and children throughout the 1900s. Of the 242 articles and books that researchers Ellen Wartella and Byron Reeves catalogued, only five studies were done of newspapers, comics, magazines, and reading in general (124). Wartella and Reeves’s overview of research on children and mass media between 1900 and 1960 reveals that there were three distinct “epochs” of research clustered around film, radio, and television, and the three “obviously correspond to the introduction and dissemination of the three technologies” (125). Delayed public reaction might also be attributed to the initially slow growth of the comic book medium. Although the comic book debuted in 1934, it was not an immediate success. It was not until the boom in 1939-1940 that the comic book became a strong presence in American culture. The fact that World War II broke out just at the time comic books became popular in America probably forestalled most criticism. The American public had more pressing concerns. But perhaps the biggest reason why comic book reading failed

Seal Of Approval: The History Of The Comics Code—Chapter 1

to capture public attention and generate public outrage until after the war was that it was not until the postwar period that comic book reading became linked to the rising concerns about juvenile delinquency. This linkage introduced an entirely new element into the debate and shifted the discourse from being one about the impact of comic book reading on children’s culture to broader fears about media effects on behavior. Although earlier critics had mentioned concerns about comic books relating to children’s behavior and the fears that children would imitate what they read, their main complaint was that comic books were not good literature. The explicit accusation that comic book reading was a factor in juvenile delinquency was not made until the publication of the work of a noted psychiatrist, Fredric Wertham, who would emerge as a national spokesman in the debate over comic books. Concern over comic books and children’s culture and worries about comic books and juvenile delinquency, however, both have their roots in the way comic books represented a threat to adult authority over children. Children’s literature did not emerge as a distinct field of publishing until the 1920s, and it wasn’t until then that library schools began to offer specialized courses in children’s literature (Meigs 395-400). But by the time the comic book made its debut, the supervision of children’s reading had been largely given over to teachers and professional librarians in public and school libraries, so it is not surprising that these professionals would be the first to raise the alarm about comic books.

suggests, because evidence suggested crimes committed by children had increased significantly. Juvenile experts had anticipated just such an increase due to the social stresses caused by the war as men entered the service and women entered the work force, disrupting family life (25-28). Gilbert attributed the rising concern about juvenile delinquency in the postwar period to three factors. First, the increased interest in juvenile delinquency meant that more attention was given to the topic in the popular press, making the problem more noticeable. Second, law enforcement agencies, prodded by public opinion, stepped up their monitoring of teenage behavior, resulting in more arrests and generating statistics that supported the notion that there was an increase in delinquency. Third, changes in youthful behavior meant that delinquency was redefined to encompass a broad range of activities not previously considered delinquent (71). Gilbert writes, “The point is a large portion of the public thought there was a delinquency crime wave, and they clamored to understand how and why this was happening” (77). While most professional social workers, psychologists, sociologists, and criminologists denied any direct link between mass media and delinquency, focusing instead on the family environment as the cause, this conclusion did not produce a

The “child consumer” was a relatively minor element in the juvenile fiction market; children did not purchase their own books, and usually the adult making the purchase also selected the books. The major market for children’s books was not individual parents but school and public libraries. In addition, most magazines aimed at children relied primarily on subscription sales rather than newsstand purchases and targeted adult purchasers (Duke 13, 19). The comic book, however, was an alternative to reading sanctioned by adult authority, and children’s leisure reading escaped the control of parents and professionals. The comic book was inexpensive and easily accessible, and children had a wide range of titles from which to select. The fact that adults frowned on such reading no doubt made comics even more appealing to children. The addition of comic book reading to the ways in which children spent their leisure hours also reflected a broader trend toward the commercialization of children’s culture. As historian Stephanie Coontz notes, marketing strategists in the 1950s would target children with advertising, bypassing parental authority to appeal directly to American youth as consumers (171). Historians Ellen Wartella and Sharon Mazzarella studied the emergence of “youth culture” in the United States, noting that beginning in the 1920s, public concern and media attention was given to the emergence of “an autonomous peer-oriented leisure-time culture, a culture independent of adults, outside the home, unsupervised, and increasingly commercialized” (178). In the 1930s and 1940s, high school students increased the amount of time spent outside the home, often with mass media that were beginning to be specifically marketed to them (182). As documented by historian James Gilbert, the concern over juvenile delinquency stemmed in large part from this increasing visibility of teenagers and teen culture in postwar America. Gilbert writes that teens’ speech, fashions, music, and mores puzzled and distressed Americans, who searched for ways to interpret this behavior. In the early 1950s, one theory caught hold of the public imagination: mass culture, including comic books, film, and other consumer entertainment aimed at youth, had “misshaped a generation of American boys and girls” (Gilbert 12-14). In addition, juvenile delinquency became an issue during the war years, Gilbert

As The Twig Is Bent… Reluctant as Ye Ed is to reprint yet another page from his bound volumes of All-Star Comics (yeah, right!), that multi-hero title was one of the earliest comic books to devote an issue specifically to juvenile delinquency after the end of World War II. As it happened, Amy Nyberg wrote a piece about this particular issue, #40 (April-May 1948), for Roy Thomas’ 2000 book The All-Star Companion [Vol. 1]. Script by John Broome; splash page art by Carmine Infantino & Frank Giacoia. Repro’d from RT’s bound volumes. [© DC Comics.]

Continuing Our Serialization Of The Landmark Book By Amy Kiste Nyberg

solution to the problem. The public chose to embrace a more satisfying explanation: the idea that modern mass culture, particularly radio, the movies, and comic books, was turning children into delinquents. Gilbert writes: For many Americans, mass culture in this equation solved the mystery of delinquency. It was an outside force guided from media centers in New York and Hollywood. It affected all classes of children. It penetrated the home. And it appeared to promote values contrary to those of many parents. It seemed, in other words, to be the catalyst that provoked generational conflict. Thus as the movement to control delinquency grew in the early 1950s, one of the most important corollary developments was the impulse to investigate, control, and censor mass culture. (77-78) As a result, the mass media were targeted as causes of delinquency and there was broad public support for regulation of the mass media industries. Elimination, or at least regulation, of mass media was a simple, direct solution to the threat facing American children. Comic books were especially vulnerable because of public perceptions that they targeted child readers and because they were the

least regulated of any of the mass media. The early critics, who focused on the form and quality of comic books, were influential in the way that they first defined comic book reading as an activity strictly for children and then attacked comics for being unsuitable juvenile literature. Once comic books were perceived as primarily a medium aimed at children, the stage was set for later critics to shift the attention from the form to the specific content of comic books, raising questions about their impact on children’s behavior. They represented comics as threat to law and order, rather than simply a bad influence on children’s education, and sparked a reaction where earlier critics had failed. This reaction took two forms. First, usually at the local level, civic and religious groups sought to impose informal controls on comic books by pressuring retailers to remove comics judged to be unsuitable or offensive; second, at the state and national But Crime Does Not Pay Paid! level, many critics sought to impose On sale at roughly the same time as All-Star #40, the formal governmental controls on the best-selling Crime Does Not Pay comic edited by industry in the form of laws prohibiting Charles Biro & Bob Wood for Lev Gleason Publications publication of certain types of comic was, according to some critics, providing the j.d.’s with their reading material! Or maybe it was just a books. The next chapter will coincidence that the word “Crime” on the cover was, examine these efforts in detail. for many years, far larger than “Does Not Pay”? Cover of issue #62 (April ’48) signed by Charles Biro. [© the respective copyright holders.]

Next Issue: Censorship Strategies!

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(Clockwise, top to bottom:) Captain America #76 (May 1954), artist uncertain; Sub-Mariner #33 (April 1954), art by Bill Everett; Fighting American #3 (Aug. 1954), art by Joe Simon & Jack Kirby; The Avenger #1 (Feb. 1955), art by Bob Powell; Samson #14 (Aug. 1955), artist unknown; Shock Illustrated #1 (Sept. 1955), art by Jack Kamen. Splash illo at left adapted from How Stalin Hopes We Will Destroy America (1951), artist unknown, from Pictorial Media, Inc., with a Dr. Fredric Wertham photo cameo. [Respective covers © Marvel Characters, Inc.; William M. Gaines, Agent, Inc.; & the respective copyright holders.]

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

Communism And American Comic Books by M. Thomas Inge When the EC comic books were under attack by the moral crusaders in 1954, the response of publisher William M. Gaines, in at least one case, was to turn against them the weapons of satire. This took the form of a full-page advertisement drawn by Jack Davis and entitled “Are You a Red Dupe?” It appeared inside several of the EC titles in the fall of 1954. The point of the parody was that the American Communist newspaper, The Daily Worker, had recently condemned comic books as capitalist trash and imperialist propaganda. It would follow, then, that those who opposed comic books, such as Fredric Wertham, Estes Kefauver, and the members of the Senate Subcommittee on Juvenile Delinquency, were allying themselves with the Communist point of view. The point was well taken―that those who seek to censor and suppress are adopting the tactics of a totalitarian state―but it was largely lost on the reformers, who probably lacked the ability to appreciate satire, especially that directed at themselves.

Are You A Red Dupe? (Above:) Jack Davis illustrated this EC house ad from Haunt of Fear #26 (July 1954). It was probably written by Bill Gaines himself, although perhaps editor Al Feldstein had a hand in it, as well. [© 2014 EC Comics.]

The ad included a quotation from the July 13, 1953, issue of The Daily Worker which attacked the role of “so-called ‘comics’ in brutalizing American youth, the better to prepare them for military service in implementing our government’s aims of world domination, and to accept the atrocities now being perpetrated by American soldiers and airmen in Korea under the flag of the United Nations.” I have searched through that issue of the newspaper, as well as the weeks before and after, and I have been unable to find the precise quotation referred to by Gaines, or indeed any article having to do with comic books. Where Gaines got the quotation is unclear. This does not mean, however, that the Communist Party did not adopt a hard line against comic books and issue orders against them directly from Moscow. I came across evidence of this some years ago. During the month of August in 1985, I gave lectures in American literature and culture at the annual Poznan Summer School for Students of English

Communism And American Comics Books

Philology at the Adam Mickiewicz University in Poznan, Poland. Senior college students majoring in English language attended from all over Poland to practice their English with native speakers and to learn about new trends in American and British culture. Still under Soviet rule, such information was hard to come by and was gratefully received in Poland. As an afternoon seminar, I offered a series of illustrated lectures on At least that’s what Fredric Wertham, comics’ sternest critic, believed. And that American comic strips man was a doctor, so who are we to argue? and comic books. In [© 2014 the respective copyright holders.] addition to my slides (this was long before PowerPoint), I brought a selection of recent comic book titles and a few weeks’ worth of comic pages from the Washington Post. The seminar caused a good deal of discussion, and soon the students were bringing me samples of Polish comic books, for which there had been a strong tradition in that country despite Soviet disapproval.

Comics Are No Damn Good!

An unexpected gift from one of my students was a small English-language reader for Russian-speaking students. She had

acquired it when she was learning English at a time when Russian was the common language of the entire Soviet Union. The volume is simply entitled English and had been published in Moscow in 1954. She knew that one essay in particular would amuse me. The first two reading selections, with vocabulary and exercises, were devoted to “Joseph Stalin, the Symbol of Peace, Freedom, and Socialism,” and “Books for Soviet Boys and Girls”: “All our boys and girls like books about the way Soviet people overcome difficulties in their work.” The third essay is reprinted here in full:

POISON FOR THE MINDS OF AMERICAN CHILDREN A well-known writer of children’s stories in our country is K. Chukovsky. Chukovsky, who knows English very well, is, of course, interested in English and American books for children. In an article in a Soviet newspaper he wrote about the favorite magazines of American children. These magazines are called ‘Comics,’ and every week millions and millions of comics are published by different publishing-houses. For every American boy and girl, five different comics full of brightly colored pictures are published every week. What is in these magazines? you will ask. Chukovsky writes, “As soon as one of these magazines appears on my table, it seems to me that I am in a den of thieves and bandits.” Before the eyes of the young readers, one of the ‘heroes’ robs ships and banks, steals pictures. Another destroys a railway and then robs the trains; a third is a murderer; a fourth steals things made of gold from museums; a fifth is a specialist in diamonds, and so on and so forth. These are the heroes of stories for children! The most successful children’s writer in America is the one who can write stories showing new or cleverer ways to rob, steal, and kill. All the achievements of science and technique are used by the bandits in children’s comics. The publishers of comics make very

Hero Or Zero?! (Left:) “Before the eyes of the young readers, one of the ‘heroes’ robs ships and banks, steals pictures. Another destroys a railway….” Wonder if the irate Russian writer was thinking of early Sub-Mariner when he penned this particular screed? Or perhaps the many “evil twins” that bedeviled comic book heroes? This cover, repro’d from a Marvel Masterworks hardcover reprint, originally appeared on Marvel Mystery Comics #9 (July 1940). The Grand Comics Database credits it to Alex Schomburg and Bill Everett. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

much money out of these magazines. They make more than publishing-houses in America have ever made before. In all the stories of the comics there is a ‘superman’ who can do anything. To jump over a New York skyscraper is nothing to him. He is a detective, and his work is to fight the gangsters. But it is clear from these magazines that even a ‘superman’ is not strong enough to fight crime in America. The number of crimes committed by children in the U.S.A. is growing fast. There are many reasons for this, but certainly comics play their part. From time to time articles appear in American newspapers and magazines against comics, but these articles do almost no good. One such article ends, “It is useless to tell children not to read comics, and it is just as useless to try to waken even a spark of conscience in the publishing-houses or the writers of comics.” The present rulers of America do nothing to take this poison away from their children, because they want a new war. “Today’s children are tomorrow’s army,” says Wall Street. According to the Wall Street imperialists, American children must be taught that banditism is a normal thing and that modern technique will help them to rob, kill, and commit crimes. But there are progressive, peace-loving people all over the world, and in America, too, who are fighting for democracy. Our country, the first Socialist country in the world, is the leader in this great struggle. In the end American children and all the children of the world will be saved from war and such fascist poison as American children’s comics. Perhaps the article Gaines saw refers to the same article mentioned above by Kornei Chukovsky, a popular author of fairy tales and children’s books in Russia. In any case, it is clear that

That “Uncle Joe”! What A Character! (Above:) How Stalin Hopes We Will Destroy America, an American comic from 1951 (artist unknown). Comic books usually exaggerate, but the real Stalin made Dr. Doom seem like a piker! During World War II, though, President Franklin Roosevelt had tried to get on his good side by referring to him as “Uncle Joe.” [© 1951 Pictorial Media Inc.]

Cap Vs. The Commies! (Left:) Captain America was one of many jingoistic Commie-crushers during the ‘50s. John Romita’s cover for Captain America #78 (Sept. 1954) depicts him defying the “Communist hordes,” particularly a super-Red called Electro! Art by John Romita. [© Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Satire In A Scarlet Vein! Russia’s Krokodil magazine may not be Mad, but fans behind the Iron Curtain loved the satire. This issue is from 1988.

Communism And American Comics Books

The Red Victory!

“Puddles Of Blood”

Freddie Wertham doing what he did best, this time as excerpted from Time magazine, March 29, 1948. [© Time-Warner, Inc., or successors in interest.]

Wertham and his crusaders would have agreed with the alarm expressed here by a Communist writer with regard to their alleged harmful influence on children. The Soviets never allowed the publication of comic books in Russia, and except for an occasional strip in the humor magazine Krokodil, no comic strips in the newspapers. (For an excellent study of the suppression of comics and their resurgence after the collapse of Communism, see Jose Alaniz, Komiks: Comic Art in Russia, University Press of Mississippi, 2010.) Perhaps the Party officials

feared the strong appeal of comics to readers and their potential for subversive opinions. Conversely, the Chinese Communists decided early on to use comic art to their own advantage and published in the 1960s millions of small pocket-sized comic books extolling the virtues and calls to heroism of the Socialist way of life. The great Chinese writer Lu Xun reportedly once wrote an essay praising the cultural and aesthetic values of the comics. I have one other indication of the Soviet response to American comic books. While I was a Fulbright Lecturer at Moscow State University in the fall of 1979, I gave some slide talks on the comics to my American literature students and for the faculty of the school of journalism. Not surprisingly, some of the faculty members knew the name of Stan Lee and the Marvel publishing empire. Following one lecture, a matronly school teacher came to the lectern and asked me that age-old question that never goes away: “Aren’t you afraid that reading comic books will keep children from reading real books?” On that subject, I guess some Americans and Russians aren’t so different, after all! The End

Dr. M. Thomas Inge Rhode Island Red! (Above:) Fighting American had his hands full with this Commie chick! The cover of Fighting American #4 (Oct. 1954), by Simon & Kirby. [© Estates of Joe Simon & Jack Kirby.]

M. Thomas Inge is Blackwell Professor of Humanities at Randolph-Macon College (Ashland, VA) and the author of Handbook of American Popular Culture (1979) and some 50 books on comic strips, popular culture, etc.

Communism And American Comics Books

The Red Executioner! (Left:) By the ‘50s, Blackhawk had graduated from fighting Nazis to Red-bashing. Ouch! That’s gotta hurt! From Quality’s Blackhawk #66 (July 1953). Art by Reed Crandall. [Blackhawk TM & © DC Comics.]

When Hell Freezes Over! (Above:) Careful, Uncle Sam! It’s never smooth sailing when Commies are around! The Red Iceberg was published in comic book form in 1960. Artist unknown. [© 1960 The Catechetical Guild.]

Or Can You? (Right:) You Can Trust The Communists (to do exactly as they say) wasn’t a comic, but its antiCommunist slant was typical of the era. And isn’t that a great title? [© 1960 Dr. Fred Schwarz.]

The Sickle Vs. The Torch Of Liberty! The Catholic Church really hated Godless Communism. Treasure Chest of Fun & Fact, a comic series distributed in parochial schools from 1946 to 1972, featured numerous stories demonizing the Red Menace. This cover is from Treasure Chest, Vol. 17, #2 (Sept 28, 1961). Artist unknown. [© 2014 Pflaum Publisher, Inc.]

That’s it for this issue, Fellow Travelers! Our thanks to Dr. Inge for sharing his fascinating article. ‘Till next time...

Comic Fandom Archive

A Mask, A Cape, And Steve Perrin Bill Schelly Chats With STEVE PERRIN, Prolific Writer For Many Classic Fanzines Of The 1960s Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

Introduction

hen I got back into fandom in 1991 and began my research into its history, I got in touch with Ronn Foss, and Foss led me to Steve Perrin. Of course, I was aware that Steve was a prolific and talented writer whose work had appeared in many fanzines of the early 1960s, such as Fantasy Illustrated, Fantasy Hero, Yancy Street Journal, Jeddak, Action Hero, and his own Mask and Cape. Perhaps his most stellar achievement was his collaboration with Ronn Foss on “The Black Phantom,” an early—probably the first—AfricanAmerican costumed hero of the fanzines. But, as I was about to learn when I interviewed him by phone on December 4, 2011, there was a lot I didn’t know about Steve and his various fannish activities. —Bill Schelly. BILL SCHELLY: Hello, how are you doing?

STEVE PERRIN: You know, breathing, moving, it works. Rolling dice, typing. BS: “Rolling dice”? PERRIN: Oh, yeah. I play role-playing games. I’ve got one this afternoon, after we talk.

Steve Perrin, high school photo.

PERRIN: We moved to Santa Barbara when I was about six. That’s where I grew up through high school. And that’s where I got into comics fandom. BS: How did your interest in comics start? PERRIN: Through newspaper comic strips. From there, I discovered comic books. I read a lot of the Walt Disney’s Comics and Stories and Uncle Scrooge, a lot of things like Johnny Mack Brown and Gene Autry and Roy Rogers comic books because I knew them from television. I had a big thing for war comics for a while; Star Spangled War Stories and so forth. I was young and still didn’t have much money, so I couldn’t get everything I wanted. Then I pretty much decided that comic books were kid stuff and got into reading science-fiction. BS: How did you make that shift? PERRIN: Initially I read some Tom Corbett, Space Cadet books, young adult or essentially young teenager books. I was a big fan of those. Then a schoolmate named Joe Lansing turned me on to people like Robert Heinlein and Andre Norton. I read a bunch of

BS: Oh, I see, yeah. Well, let’s get started with an obvious question. When and where were you born? PERRIN: I was born in the Los Angeles area on January 22, 1946. BS: What did your dad do for a living? PERRIN: Back then, he owned his own company, the Topper Pants Hanger Manufacturing Company. Shortly, either during the war or immediately afterwards, he came up with a design for a wire pants hanger which was very nice and cheap to make. However, it had the slight problem; it depended on people wearing cuffs on their pants, which was the fashion at the time. Among the many things that killed that company was the fashion for not having cuffs on your pants.

Back From The Future BS: Did he stay in that sort of business? PERRIN: Well, my father was 47 when I was born. I have a couple of siblings who are quite a bit older than I am. I used to call myself “an afterthought” until my dad pointed out there wasn’t a lot of thought involved. BS: [laughs] Okay, you were born in the Los Angeles area. And did you grow up there?

Steve Perrin c. 1957–58, about when he began reading more science-fiction than comic books. Soon, the Schwartz-edited DC titles, especially the debut of the “Justice League of America” in The Brave and the Bold #28 (March 1960), drew him back to the four-color fold. Script by Gardner F. Fox; art by Mike Sekowsky & Bernard Sachs. Thanks to Steve for both photos on this page. [B&B cover © DC Comics.]

Comic Fandom Archive

dence that went on for about a year or so. He actually mailed me [on loan] some copies of All-Star Comics and so forth. BS: And what was your first issue of Alter-Ego? Did you get number one or did you come in on #2? PERRIN: I got the number one. Yeah, when I first started writing to Roy, they were just putting the first one together, so I got a copy of that. [NOTE: B&B #35, the first of three “Hawkman” issues, hit the newsstands in the first week of March 1961; Alter-Ego #1 was mailed out by Jerry Bails on March 28. —Bill.] BS: How did you begin to think about contributing to fanzines? PERRIN: Well, I was in my late high school years at this point, my junior, senior years in high school. I was already interested in being a writer. I had already set that as a goal. So switching over to writing comic book scripts and stories about super-heroes was just a matter of a slight change of subject. BS: Were you on the school paper and stuff like that? PERRIN: My senior year, yeah. I was also in theatre arts in my junior and senior year. BS: I had read somewhere that you were a drama major when you went to San Francisco State, so I was going to ask how your interest in theatre came about.

Playing Doctor Steve contributed a prose story of DC’s “Dr. Mid-Nite” (see below) to Parley Holman’s Spotlite #2 (1962), which was complemented with art by Ronn Foss, who also drew the cover. The same issue featured an article on “The Black Hood” by Howard Keltner, and one on “Captain Comet” by Roy Thomas. [Dr. Mid-Nite & Captain Comet TM & © DC Comics; other material © Steve Perrin.]

their books, and branched out from there. I didn’t get into Robert E. Howard much until college. BS: What rekindled your interest in comics? PERRIN: It was the appearance of the “Justice League of America” in The Brave and the Bold #28. This had been a concept that I had always fascinated me as far back as I can remember. Why not have all these super-heroes get together? Somehow, that just grabbed me. BS: How did you get started in fandom? PERRIN: In the letter column in The Brave and the Bold #35, the second “Hawkman” try-out issue, they had people like Jerry Bails and Roy Thomas writing in and gave their full addresses. I think that may have started a lot as far as comic fandom is concerned. [NOTE: The other two letters in that historically important column were from Ron Haydock and Ronnie Graham. —Bill.] BS: It did, for sure. And that was your specific entry point? PERRIN: Yeah, because I wrote to Roy Thomas and he responded, and we started a correspon-

PERRIN: I signed up for a couple courses at the Santa Barbara summer school, Auto Mechanics and Theatre Arts. That’s when I got into theatre arts. There was a very good drama teacher, Mr. John Duerr. He later became a vice principal of the high school. I fell in love with theatre at that point, and continued with it into the regular school year. It became my main focus, besides writing and comic books, for my junior and senior years of high school. BS: Were you an actor? PERRIN: Yep, I did bit parts. In between junior and senior years, I did summer theatre. In Bye Bye Birdie, I played about every bit part there was in that show. Then I finished my high school thespian career doing the Stage Manager in Our Town. BS: Were you also thinking about writing plays? PERRIN: No, although I’m sure I picked up my ear for dialogue during that time. But by that time, I had already gotten into doing fan stuff, so that’s mostly what my writing was at that point. BS: When did you graduate from high school and go on to San Francisco State? PERRIN: 1963.

A Mask, A Cape, And Steve Perrin

Two Dimensions Par Holman’s “Dimension Man” was the first known amateur super-hero comic strip produced for the fanzines in the 1960s. Steve Perrin scripted chapter 3 of the continuing origin story in Spotlite #3. Later, Perrin and Foss collaborated on a high-profile comic strip for Bill Spicer’s Fantasy Illustrated. (See part 2, next issue)

BS: The earliest fanzine credit I have for you is writing for Parley Holman’s fanzine Spotlite. PERRIN: Yep. That was, I think, the first zine that published my work. BS: Spotlite #1, which is dated Fall-Winter 1961, has your text re-telling of the origin of Dr. Mid-Nite called “Guardian of the Night!” PERRIN: That’s right, and then I did a Dr. Mid-Nite pastiche. It was strictly a text story, not a comic strip. BS: [consulting issues of Spotlite] That was in Holman’s second issue. Of course, Ronn Foss also did a character inspired by Dr. Mid-Nite called The Eclipse, which appeared in Alter Ego #5. PERRIN: Yes... I believe mine was slightly before the Eclipse, though Ronn may have been working on his at the same time. BS: I heard that Julie Schwartz objected to fans writing stories of DC’s characters, but the story itself was billed as being published “with their kind permission.” What happened? PERRIN: I’m sure the “kind permission” note was just Par [Holman] assuming DC wouldn’t have a problem. Julie must have written to Par. I heard from Roy about the same time that he and Jerry were asked not to write any more “Spectre” stories like the one in A-E #1, since that was a direct appropriation of a character owned by DC.

PERRIN: It started with Rudi Franke of Heroes’ Hangout. When I was a freshman, I guess, at San Francisco State, Rudi was a senior. I found his address in some fanzine, and I said, “Oh, my God. He’s going to the same school I am!” So I managed to track him down and got invited over to his house in Oakland. I met Bill and Marty through Rudi and it went on from there. [NOTE: Bill and Marty lived in San Francisco. —Bill.] BS: I think you contributed to most of their fanzines, didn’t you? PERRIN: Here and there, yeah, pretty much. We hit it off really well. BS: They were really cranking up their fan-publishing in 1964, launching both Yancy Street Journal and Voice of Comicdom. Bill and Marty started VoC with a report of the 1964 World Science Fiction Convention in San Francisco. Was that when you sort of cemented your relationship with them? PERRIN: I’d say so. That was my first convention.

BS: You also scripted the third chapter of the “Dimension Man” strip in Spotlite #3. How did that come about?

BS: There was quite a sizable contingent of comic book fans there.

PERRIN: [pauses] I don’t remember. That was a long time ago! Either Par or Ronn asked me to do it.

PERRIN: Yeah. Besides Marty and Bill, there was Rudi Franke, Larry Ivie, Don Glut, Johnny Chambers....

BS: When did you first meet Ronn Foss?

BS: Also Barry Bauman, who was part of Marty and Bill’s group, Margaret Gemignani, Paul Moslander, Mike Friedrich, Jeremy Barry, who was a well-known fanzine writer, Bob Metz, and some others. I see in Voice of Comicdom #3 that you wrote a “Meet the Pro!” profile of Edmond Hamilton, who was there. How did that come about?

PERRIN: I first started corresponding with Ronn after his artwork started appearing in various fanzines. A year or so later my parents and I—I was in the 16-17 range at the time—were visiting relatives in the same area where Ronn lived, and I arranged for us to meet. My parents left me off at his place just as he was coming off duty as a postman. I believe he wrote the meeting up in an issue of The Comicollector, which he was editing at the time. BS: “Dimension Man” was, I believe, the first amateur super-hero story in comics form published in the fanzines of that era. He was created by Holman and drawn by Ronn Foss in a 3-part story in Spotlite #1 through #3. It was nicely done, and the first instance where you and Ronn collaborated. Because, later, you guys came together for “Black Phantom,” which made quite an impact.... but we’ll get to later. Right now, I want to ask how you linked up with Marty Arbunich and Bill DuBay, who published a whole bunch of fanzines from 1963 to 1967.

PERRIN: He was the Guest of Honor. He was talking to everybody. I was a fan of his science-fiction as well as his comic book work. So, with all the brashness of youth, I went up to him and said, “Hi. I like your work,” and we got into a conversation, and I thought, “Hey, that’s interesting. I should write that down.” So I did. BS: Your article was well-written, and an important record historically because Hamilton wasn’t interviewed much about his comic book work. What were your impressions of him? PERRIN: He was a very nice, affable gentleman. Like a lot of people in the genre, he really loved knowing that he had actual

Comic Fandom Archive

fans. He was already in his sixties, I think, so he had a long background and a lot of experience at that point. [NOTE: Hamilton turned sixty a few weeks after the con. —Bill.]

zine called Jeddak, which is a reference to Burroughs’ John Carter of Mars series. BS: I don’t know that much about him, only that you contributed to Jeddak.

BS: Of course, he was writing “Superman.”

PERRIN: Well, Paul’s still around San Francisco, pretty much out of the comic book scene. I was rooming with Johnny Chambers, the fan artist and publisher, who was a friend (and still is). And that’s the con where I met cat yronwode, then Cat Manfredi.

PERRIN: And he was writing “Superman,” and if you take a look at that article, I comment on that a bit, and his reaction to writing “Superman.” I also met his wife, Leigh Brackett, in passing, and also Harlan Ellison. Well, it was a science-fiction convention! BS: There’s a photograph of Larry Ivie and Don Glut in costume as The Red Skull and Captain America. Do you remember that?

Voices Of Fandom

PERRIN: Yeah. A bunch of us went off to a side room and Don showed us a bunch of the amateur movies he’d made, including one with him as Cap. But I don’t remember much about it.... I was distracted by all the fan women in scanty costumes.

(Above:) The four-man consortium of fanzine publishers in the Bay Area. (L. to r.:) Bill DuBay, Marty Arbunich (seated), Rudi Franke, and Barry Bauman. Titles emanating from this group included Fantasy Hero, Comic Caper, Heroes’ Hangout, Fantasy Heroes’ Hangout, Fandom Presents, Voice of Comicdom, and Yancy Street Journal. Steve Perrin contributed to nearly all of them.

BS: I take it you’re primarily referring to the nearly nude woman who came as Dejah Thoris? In the photograph in Voice of Comicdom, it looks almost like she was a stripper or something, rather than a fan.

(Below:) DuBay and Arbunich printed 1,000 copies of Voice of Comicdom #2 and it sold for a mere 20 cents, which explains why it found its way into the hands of the majority of active fans in 1964. [Page © Marty Arbunish & Estate of Bill DuBay.]

PERRIN: Well, a gentleman by the name of Bill Rotsler tended to show up with, shall we say, “professional ladies.” BS: Any other memories of that 1964 con? PERRIN: Among the people whom I met at the con who became important to me was a guy named Paul Moslander. He published a

BS: I can see how meeting all those people really influenced what zines you contributed to in the coming months and years. For Yancy Street Journal, you did the ongoing column about Captain America titled “Courageous Captain” beginning with issue #5. Was Cap a particular favorite of yours? PERRIN: Like many of my projects, I thought of the title first and then started filling in the details. Captain America was a favorite of mine, and still is. I think the archaic weapon use is part of the appeal, and I liked the idea of a patriotic hero. (I created a couple of my own named Captain Liberty and Anthem.) Somewhere in there I was also inspired by cat yronwode’s regard for the character and

Jack Kirby’s artwork. BS: I guess this is a good time to talk about how you got involved in what began as Margaret Gemignani’s Mask and Cape. How did that come about? PERRIN: Margaret Gemignani was one of my early correspondents. She wrote to everybody. And Margaret was heavily dyslexic. This was before anybody knew what “dyslexic” meant.

A Mask, A Cape, And Steve Perrin

BS: I always wondered why her writing and her articles were so strange. PERRIN: Yes. She later got professionally diagnosed as dyslexic. But she was very enthusiastic. She was about five or six years older than I was and had been in fandom for quite a while already, science-fiction fandom. So we got this correspondence going back and forth, and she expressed interest in doing a fanzine, and I was interested in doing a fanzine, and I said, “Oh, let’s talk about that.”

Then all of a sudden, she published the first issue of Mask and Cape, which was a mess. It was just stuff that was barely collated and … oh, God. BS: Bad printing, very bad printing. PERRIN: Bad printing and everything else, and she put my name on it as her co-editor. And I’m sort of going, “Oh, my God. She’s going to go down the tubes!” [Bill chuckles] She had pumped out two more issues very quickly, and then I managed to persuade her to let me deal with putting an issue out. And that was the fourth issue. So pretty much, the fourth issue was all me.

A Captain On Yancy Street (Left:) Bill DuBay’s excellent design sense is evident in the cover of Yancy Street Journal #6, Ditko swipe and all. YSJ was fandom’s first Marvel zine. [© Estate of Bill DuBay.] (Above:) Header for Steve’s column in YSJ #7. [Captain America TM & © Marvel Characters, Inc.] (Below:) With Yancy Street Journal #9, the fanzine converted to a photo-offset format much like Voice of Comicdom. It had become so popular that they couldn’t print enough copies using the old ditto method, that extended to no more than 300 copies or less. [Characters TM and © Marvel Characters, Inc., & E.C. Publications, Inc., respectively]

Comic Fandom Archive

BS: I was going to say it looks like it’s pretty much all you, although you have some artists like Rudi Franke. Also, Johnny Chambers did quite a bit for you. PERRIN: Bill DuBay did a nice job on the offset cover. The inside was all ditto. I seem to remember that it was printed on Paul Moslander’s ditto machine. Or maybe it was on Johnny Chambers’ machine. I never owned one.

Mask And Cape (Above:) Photos of Margaret Gemignani (above right), who produced Mask and Cape #1 through #3, are rare. This one is from an early-1970s comicon masquerade. She didn’t let her undiagnosed dyslexia stop her from writing articles about old comic books for her own and many other early amateur publications. On the left is Carole Seuling as Mary Marvel; fan in middle is unidentified. (Right:) While he contributed to dozens of fanzines, Perrin’s only adventure in selfpublishing was Mask and Cape #4 (Sept. 1964). It featured his own super-team, “The Companions of Justice.” Cover by Bill DuBay. [Art © the respective copyright holders.]

Next issue: Steve reveals how his ground-breaking amateur hero “The Black Phantom” came about, his fan association with publisher Bill Spicer, and much more. If you wish to share comments with Bill, you can e-mail him at hamstrpres@aol.com or contact him through Facebook. A special closeup feature on Parley Holman’s Spotlite #1—which had features by not only Steve Perrin, but also Roy Thomas, Ronn Foss, Bill Thailing, and Steve Gerber— is coming in a future issue.

In Memoriam

Dan Adkins Master Of The Brush (1937-2013) A Reminiscence by Bill Pearson

an, stationed at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona, saw my name and address in the letter column of a science fiction magazine. He wrote, asking if I knew any girls. At 17, about to graduate from high school, the only girls I knew were those exciting, mysterious characters in comics and novels. Dan, at 19, somehow managed to find his own girl, a real one, a pretty brunette named Janette Strouse, age 15, who, believe it or not, had a twin sister named Jane. For the next couple of years we were a fearless foursome, Dan and I about equally obsessed with the girls and with science fiction fanzines, including our own, called Sata.

I got a job right out of high school, and a car. Dan was discharged from the Air Force, and was by then the undisputed #1 most popular fanzine artist in the USA. We set out for New York

Dapper Dan & Friends (Clockwise:) Dan & Janette Adkins… one of Wally Wood’s 1960s art crews (l. to r., Steve Stiles, Dan Adkins, Wally Wood, & unidentified… and a splash page from Tower Comics’ T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents #3 (March 1966), credited to Adkins as primary penciler, with additional art/inking by Wood and Tony Coleman. Repro’d from DC’s hardcover T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents Archives, Vol. 1 (2002). [Splash © John Carbonaro.]

City, flat broke but without any doubt at all that we were sure to make a living somehow, drawing pictures. Others can trace Dan’s career as well as I can. After all, I had my own life to live. And I was no longer his closest companion. Janette, on her 18th birthday, got on a bus for New York. They were married for over fifty years, and had a son, Chris, now in his late 40s. Janette passed away a couple of years before Dan, and he never quite recovered from that loss. Briefly, he did succeed in becoming a regular illustrator for the professional science fiction magazines, doing covers as well as interior illustrations, but the pay was low, only about $25 per illustration, not enough to support a family. He took a production job at an art agency, supplying graphics for newspaper ads. Dan didn’t have a big ego, or a grand plan for his life; he just wanted to make a living as some kind of artist. We spent a lot of time trying all kinds of art, including the then-dominant abstract art earning big figures in fine art galleries. We could create abstract art while half asleep or three-quarters drunk or on a [Continued on p. 69]

In Memoriam

Les Daniels (1943-2011) Les Was More... Much More by Jon B. Cooke

es Daniels, the author of such seminal works of comic book history as Comix: A History of Comic Books in America (1971), Marvel: Five Fabulous Decades of the World’s Greatest Comics (1991), and DC’s Complete History trilogy, on Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman (1998–2000), was a gentleman who possessed tremendous, eclectic talents, be they scribing novels and short stories, composing insightful pop culture criticism, typing up horror movie screenplays (albeit unproduced), and, yes, even “furious” playing of the banjo. Les was, until his sad demise around Halloween 2011, an icon in his beloved, adopted home state of Rhode Island, the go-to guy for learning not only about fellow Ocean State legend Howard Phillips Lovecraft or bad movies like I Dismember Mama, but about anything, really. “Doc” Daniels, denizens of the horror writers annual “Camp NECON” get-together will inform you, knew everything about just about everything. Ask fellow “That Damned Game Show” contestants Stephen R. Bissette, Thomas F. Monteleone, and Chet Williamson; in trivia, Leslie Noel Daniels III reigned supreme.

While it’s fitting that the Brown University graduate will be greatly remembered for his scholarship on comics, Les also had an enormous effect not only in the study of horror in popular culture (his unpretentious and inclusive survey of movies, novels, and comics of the genre, Living In Fear: A History of Horror in the Mass Media (1975), blows superstar Stephen King’s Danse Macabre out of the water with its exquisitely crafted prose, accuracy, and refined attention to detail), but as one of the finest fiction writers of his day. His recently passed friend Bob Booth called the author “flat out, one of the finest horror writers” worth reading, and Booth told me weeks before his own death, “Les was just a spectacular stylist who, I believe, if he’d decided to write mainstream fiction, could have been on the scale of an Updike or a Cheever.” Les Daniels wrote a mere five novels (with a sixth planned but never realized), every one starring his unforgettable historyspanning protagonist, the vampire Don Sebastian de Villanueva, born into undead immortality in the setting of The Black Castle’s Spanish Inquisition and traversing the ages through the Conquistadors’ subjugation of the Aztec empire, the Reign of Terror during the French Revolution, Victorian London’s foggy cobblestone avenues, and into the Thuggee death cult of 1800s’ India. (His intended last novel would have taken the nocturnal nobleman to that mystical realm of eternal life, Shangri-La.) It is in Les’s attention to historical minutiae, combined with “heartbreaking” excellence of his writing, that transcend the genre, in its wake gaining the admiration of Stephen King, Ramsey Campbell, and (as you might expect with such a exulted “writer’s writer”) a

Pecking Order Les Daniels, and the Mad Peck Studios’ cover for his seminal book Comix: A History of Comic Books in America. [Art © the respective copyright holders.]

legion of admirers, including yours truly, who love a gripping story exquisitely told. But life had other plans for Les Daniels. In an accident of publishing history, it was the lesser series of historical vampire novels scribed by Anne Rice, starring her romantic bloodsucker Lestat, that engaged public fancy, and Les—above all a working writer, as his friend Steve Bissette notes—needed a steady income and thus returned to the study of the American comic book. Yet before the Marvel and DC histories, back in the early 1970s, there was Comix, certainly one of the most important works of its type, distinct from other volumes of the era which approached the subject heavy with nostalgia, light in creator backgrounds, and inevitably dominated with super-hero worship. Authored with major contributions by Brown alumni Frank Muhly (who wrote the “Funny Animal” chapter) and John “The Mad” Peck (the tome’s designer and writer of the “Mighty Marvel” portion, as well as initial draft of the chapter on the outré, hippie material), Comix was lucidly democratic in approach, as it included crime, good girl, anthropomorphic, Warren black-&-whites, and a healthy dose of underground reportage, along with the requisite long-underwear crimefighter coverage. Heck, it even mentioned those forbidden Tijuana bibles! Most illuminating, though, was Comix’s spotlight on the ascent, peak, and demise of William M. Gaines’ EC Comics and on the prime executioner of that top-shelf outfit, the Comics Code Authority. Les was unequivocal in his distain of censorship and adamant in his lament for the attack on the publisher of Mad, Tales from the Crypt, and Frontline Combat. “Unfortunately, and probably not coincidentally,” Les writes, “these moves [for CCA self-policing of the industry] occurred during a period when the comics were just achieving new heights of sophistication in concept and execution, especially through the efforts of the EC line. The result was a setback for the art of comics, which was forced into essentially infantile patterns when its potential for maturity had only begun to be explored.” (Notable, too, is the book’s rightful—and early on—high regard for comics geniuses Harvey Kurtzman and Robert Crumb.)

In Memoriam

Les made most of his income writing the pair of company-sponsored, coffee-table chronologies of the Big Two, and with the subsequent trio of DC History volumes that teamed him up with book designer Chip Kidd. Marvel, which Roy Thomas says “was, quite simply, the one that set the standard for comics histories that followed it,” and the work’s remarkably honest and comprehensive reporting solidified the author as one of the field’s most eminent scholars. His subsequent Eisner Award in 2001 for Wonder Woman: The Complete History as “Best Comics-Related Book” won Les the recognition of the entire industry.

The Rest Is History The covers of Les Daniels’ landmark histories of the “Big Two,” with cover art by John Romita and Alex Ross, respectively. He went on to write several other important historical studies of and for DC. [Marvel art © Marvel Characters, Inc.; DC art © DC Comics.]

Les Daniels was born in Danbury, Connecticut, on Oct. 27, 1943, and he tragically died alone in his Benefit Street basement apartment, in Providence, R.I., sometime after his 68th birthday. In between those events, in a life filled to the brim, with friends and admirers at home and around the globe, the man made a substantial and lasting impact in the domains that gave him so much joy, be they horror or comics. And that’s worth celebrating, for we are the more for having had Les… much, much more. For a comprehensive look at the life of Les Daniels, check out Jon B. Cooke’s two-part examination in Comic Book Creator #1 & 3, available through TwoMorrows.

[Continued from p. 67]

Somehow I met Wood before Dan did, and when I brought Dan up to meet the wizard himself, all our lives took a major turn. They say Dan was Wood’s best assistant, and that’s a real compliment, because Wood had a lot of talented assistants over the years. I can say without doubt that Wood was Dan’s best teacher, because he was a legitimate pro after they parted.

about every commercial artist in all genres maintains a large to vast file of reference material. Wallace Wood sure did. It would have made a respectable library of graphic art and photographs in any university in the nation! People don’t make up an airplane or a building or a camel without some reference unless they’ve been drawing camels steadily for years. Most artists will copy a Foster or Raymond figure but change an arm or a leg or the angle of the head, something to make it their own figure in the final frame. Dan respected the originals so much, he didn’t change anything, and he was caught more often than most by sharp-eyed comic art lovers who really love accusing artists of cheating! I used to chide Dan about this, but he just laughed it off. Enough said about swiping.

In my opinion, Dan’s best work was in partnership with Don Newton on the many “Batman” stories they produced together. Dan normally inked sharply, sometimes extremely so, in this case without losing Don’s excellent compositions and anatomical finesse, which resulted in an excellent symbiosis.

Dan and I were best friends to the end. After his assignments dried up from the ever-younger crop of editors at the big two, I sold his expert drawings on eBay. Flawless renderings, without a trace of white-out or error. If Dan made a mistake, he’d throw away the drawing, no matter how far along it was to completion.

Dan could draw, but he was slow at it, a perfectionist, which didn’t fit in with the assembly-line methods of the comic book industry, so he became a superior inker, a true master of the pen and brush, able to blend with any style or level of skill. He loved inking Jack Kirby, whose bold pencils needed nothing from Dan but equally bold rendering. He loved inking John Buscema, who penciled very slightly, only indicating the most critical lines necessary for a professional like Dan to embellish. He loved inking some of the more stylistic artists like Gil Kane, too, though he was a little annoyed that Gil tended to draw double knees, which Dan felt obliged to correct.

We spoke about every other day by phone, ruminating often about things like the subtlety of a woman’s face. How difficult it was to illustrate the tiny details of the slightest variable to catch the perfection of a particular expression. He was still at the drawing board, still trying to improve, right up to the end.

Often, of course, he had to fix the work of lesser talents as he inked, proving his skills at that kind of work as a salaried art director for Marvel for several years.

Bill Pearson has written numerous comics books, including for Tower and Charlton, and assumed the editorship of the prozine witzend following its founder, Wally Wood.

coffee break creating real art. But it wasn’t for us. We admired the genuine artists of the mid-20th-century, men like Hal Foster, Alex Raymond, Roy Crane, Burne Hogarth, Virgil Finlay, Kelly Freas, and the then-current stars Wallace Wood, Al Williamson, Frank Frazetta, and Roy Krenkel, among many others.

I suppose a few words have to be said about swiping. Just

I’ve lost my oldest friend, after 60 years. I was lucky to know him. I’ll miss him.

Neil A. Hansen: “What a great issue, and the Leonard Starr interview looked especially gorgeous, as well as being filled with great copy. I have to clarify something, though, in the caption accompanying the Kelly Green pages. The only issue that never appeared in the U.S. was issue #5, which as seen was in French. Unfortunately, the stuff didn’t succeed in the U.S., which is sad, because the writing and art were dynamite.” Thanks for clearing up that Kelly Green matter, Neil. John Benson: “As usual, there was a lot to interest me in A/E #113. Looking at Code censorship is always fun, but it seems to me that if you’re going to run censored versions of published stories, it’s incumbent on you to run the original uncensored version side-byside and not leave us to ponder what could have been there that required censoring, as the caption on page 50 suggests the reader do. It seems to me especially unforgivable not to have the originals of the Dick Tracy panels here and in the earlier installment. As you must realize, the reason for the black-&-white panels in some redrawn issues is not that ‘there wasn’t enough time to color the new panels,’ as Arndt opined. The publishers were reusing the color plates. They could rout out areas but not add anything new or different without making new plates, which was an expense they didn’t want to incur, no matter how strange it looked.

oy here, as per usual. Work on a pair of Marvel-related histories for the German publisher Taschen have put me in a real time squeeze this issue, so I’ll just get right to truncated versions of your comments on Alter Ego #113, whose cover feature was Richard Arndt’s interview with Silver-Age-and-beyond writer Marv Wolfman… as soon as I thank Shane Foley for his Herb-Trimpified art that heads this section, and Randy Sargent for his coloring thereof! I never want to take these guys for granted… they do a fabulous job with one or both of our “maskots” each and every issue! My comments below, as per usual, are in italics. [Alter Ego hero TM & © Roy & Dann Thomas; character designed by Ron Harris; other art ©2014 Shane Foley.]

Jeff Taylor: “Alter Ego #113 was another great issue. The Marv Wolfman interview was very interesting stuff (although how you avoided a ‘Clap for the Wolfman’ caption is beyond me… they never played that Wolfman Jack song in your area?). Would have loved to see more of Marv’s early fandom stuff, especially ‘The Foob’ and ‘The Trip’ (especially the latter, as I’ve always had a weakness for liquefying heroes ever since the days of Fluid Man on Frankenstein Jr. and the Impossibles!). Also got a kick out of seeing his Skywald material, especially The Love Witch (a name I keep hearing in my imagination uttered by an announcer like Ernie ‘Ghoulardi’ Anderson voice à la TV’s Love Boat)…. And I loved the Steranko article, especially the stuff on the metal-handed Spyman, a character I always got a major kick out of.” I can honestly say I never heard of a record titled “Clap for the Wolfman,” Jeff. Must have come out during my underprivileged adulthood.

“The tale of Wonder Woman #185 is fascinating, with its overt s&m elements like dog collars, but that’s not the only s&m and bondage material in that title during that area. Between issues #199 and 209 there are five bondage covers, three with women gagged as well as bound, and another cover showing a cat-fight between two women on the ground. My vote for the most horrifying comics cover of all time is Wonder Woman #200, with the woman erotically posed with her legs apart, her eyes showing terror, and the explicit suggestion of imminent torture, with pliers and knives laid out in the foreground and the title ‘The Beauty Hater,’ with the torturer wearing the sort of anonymous mask that reveals nothing, which the makers of later R-rated horror films found so effective. That Jeff Jones’ art is superior to most of the surrounding covers only makes the effect strong. The combination of bondage with torture is potent, and I can’t think of any pre-Code cover that was as horrifying. What was the Code thinking? What were the folks at DC thinking? “If you ever do another Code piece, I can supply some outrageous examples from Harvey romance comics, before and after, and a few milder ones from their horror comics like the ones in A/E #89.” As you know, John, we have on hand an entire article by you on that very subject... which we plan to run first chance we get! The accompanying double-art spot on the next page shows both the Jeffrey Jones Wonder Woman cover you mention and the original version of that Code-censored Wild Bill Hickok page. As for the Dick Tracy strips that were reprinted, heavily edited, in one of Harvey’s post-Code comics, Roy just didn’t have the time or patience to go hunting for the newspaper version, much as we’d have loved to print it. But Mea culpa. Hames Ware: “The artist on page 49 is Allen Ulmer, who was at one point, early in his career, a collaborator with the gifted artisan Ray Willner. The artist on page 50 was Avon’s primary ‘Wild Bill Hickok’ artist, H.L. ‘Howard’ Larsen. Rafael Astarita recalled from their Fiction House days that Larsen had the use of only one arm. There is a wonderful article waiting to be written about the surprisingly large number of artists in all fields who overcame a variety of disabilities.” Indeed, Hames. Meanwhile, thanks for your tidbits of information… always welcome! Mike W. Barr: “Page 5 of Alter Ego #113 reproduces the cover of [G.B. Love’s fanzine] Rocket’s Blast #5, crediting the art to Buddy Saunders. Perhaps technically correct, if Saunders actually wielded

[correspondence, comments, & corrections]

Code, Code Heart It takes an entire triptych of images to respond to John Benson’s missive in this “re:” section. Taking these images in clockwise order: Jeffrey Jones’ disturbing cover for Wonder Woman #200 (MayJune 1972). We share John Benson’s opinion of it, and did at the time. [© DC Comics.] And here, for belated comparison with the Code changes mandated for Wild Bill Hickok #23 (May-June 1955), is artist Howard Larsen’s page as it had appeared in issue #6 (Feb. 1951), a few years before the censors’ hatchets came out. Now readers can (belatedly) compare for themselves with the image reprinted in A/E #113. Thanks to Jim Kealy. [© the respective copyright holders.] In the selfsame letter, John writes: “I have also been enjoying the multi-part Leonard Starr interview. The picture of Gil Kane and Starr was taken by yours truly. The figure in the background is not Howard Chaykin; it’s Ralph Reese. I have another one taken at the same event, of Ralph talking to Flo Steinberg, which I am attaching. Wally Wood (at left in same group), Michele Robinson (later Brand, now Wrightson, to left of Wood facing away from camera in print dress), and Roger Brand (who was probably working for Gil at the time; seated foreground, wavy hair). I don’t know who the young woman talking to Roger is.” This photo, like the one John refers to that saw print in A/E #113, was taken by him at the 1968 SCARP-Con, forerunner of Phil Seuling’s annual New York Comic Art Conventions which began in 1969 and continued for a number of years. Thanks, John!

re:

Say It Ain’t So, Joe! Ray Cuthbert writes: “I believe Marv Wolfman may have been confusing the reactions of Murphy Anderson and Gray Morrow when he relates on page 16 the account of Joe Kubert doing some art patches over Anderson’s work on ‘John Carter.’ Marv relates that Murphy was angry at him for not saying anything about this [in advance]. I believe that these incidents happened as related, except for the fact that the Kubert art patches were on Morrow’s work for the feature, not on Anderson’s. Morrow was so upset over his work being treated this way without consultation that he vowed never to work for Kubert again—and he never did. As Marv relates, ‘Unfortunately, Joe’s style is so unique it was obvious.’” Ye Editor dropped an e-mail to Marv, Ray, and he says you’re right: apparently, he momentarily misremembered the change as involving Murphy Anderson, when it was actually Gray Morrow. Thanks for sending us a scan of a Kubert-altered John Carter face from Tarzan #208 (May 1972), seen above. Joe clearly made no attempt to match Morrow’s style—which of course was his right as the comic’s editor, but which Gray found offensive. [© Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc.]

the pen, but the figure of Adam Strange is a dead swipe from the cover of Mystery in Space #77 (Aug. 1972) by Carmine Infantino and Murphy Anderson…. The ‘Check This Out!’ squib on page 68, which reprinted the check signed by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster that granted to Detective Comics, Inc., all rights to ‘Superman’ recalled a day at DC in the late ’70s when I was on staff. At lunch,

[editor and future DC publisher] Paul Levitz mentioned that he had found that check deep in DC’s files. Longtime ‘Superman’ writer Cary Bates, bless his heart, asked, ‘Could something happen to that check?’ I’ve no idea how the check got into the hands of whoever sold it. When asked about it, Paul replied, ‘No comment.’” Like Marvel, alas, DC has had a long and sorry history of valuable items being stolen from its library. I had a similar experience in the early 1970s, when as Marvel’s associate editor I pleaded with thenpublisher Chip Goodman to shell out a few bucks to have a lock put on my desk, which then housed several irreplaceable 1940s hardcovers that, among other things, contained the first 12 issues of Marvel Mystery Comics, which we had found in the company’s warehouse space. He wouldn’t authorize the expense, and most of the comics vanished overnight soon afterward. Well, at least they probably still exist, somewhere out there in the universe. I just hope that whoever stole the books took better care of them than Marvel itself bothered to!

Glen Johnson: “There is not much on today’s comics scene that makes me as happy as receiving A/E. I’d like to suggest an article for A/E. Many years ago, sometime in the 1970s, I think, ERB was planning a line of comics from L.A. with Russ Manning as editor. I think that Richard Kyle and Mark Evanier were involved with the project, as was Alex Toth. We know what a pain Toth could be, and I recall a story that Manning was criticizing Toth about how his art didn’t look like the faces that Manning had drawn for the artists to follow. We know how Toth took criticism, and he yelled at Manning that the faces Manning had drawn were different in each pose. I’ve never read anything about this project. I think others would enjoy learning more about it.” I believe I’ve spoken to Mark Evanier about writing one day about the plan of Edgar Rice Burroughs, Inc., in the mid1970s to launch its own comics line as things were fading out at DC, and before they suddenly approached Marvel about their properties. I recall, at one San Diego Comic-Con, being in a hotel room with Mark, young Rick Hoberg, and one or two others and seeing some of the original pages of same, which I’d like to think still exist. In fact, now that I’m writing no fewer than two Tarzan online comic strips for ERB Inc., it reminds me that I’ve long considered devoting an entire issue of Alter Ego to ERBrelated comics. Tom Grindberg, artist of the New Adventures of Tarzan strip I’m scribing, has said he’ll do a new cover for it… so I've decided to bite the ERB bullet in issue #129, out this October! Send your comments, corrections, and calumnies to: Roy Thomas e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com 32 Bluebird Trail St. Matthews, SC 29135

And, at the risk of repeating myself: Don’t forget that you can connect up with the Alter-Ego-Fans online list at group.yahoo.com/ group/alter-ego-fans. If you have trouble getting on board at first, simply contact Web overseer Chet Cox at mormonyoyoman@gmail.com and he’ll walk you through it. AlterEgo-Fans is where the Golden and Silver Ages still live—and, as it grows, it can become ever more of a forum for thoughts on the early decades of comics, as well as comments on and potential ideas for this magazine. I don’t always get a chance to write something for it myself, but I read it virtually every day. Give it a look!

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The most cynical explanation of war, of course, is that wars are nature’s way of keeping the human race from running riot like rabbits over the face of the earth. Or that war is the old law-of-thejungle instinct in us, needing an outlet. Art ©2013 Mark Lewis

In this bad old world of periodic wars and depressions and inflations and ideologies and what-not, how can a person best keep his balance and enjoy life?

Part V Abridged & Edited by P.C. Hamerlinck FCA EDITOR’S INTRODUCTION: Otto Oscar Binder (1911-1974), the prolific science-fiction and comic book writer renowned for authoring over half of the Marvel Family saga for Fawcett Publications, wrote Memoirs of a Nobody in 1948 at the age of 37, during what was arguably the most imaginative period within the repertoire of “Captain Marvel” stories.

I think my life is fairly simple. I have few interests outside of my writing, my home and family, and my hobbies. I strive for security but I eschew over-ambition. I am a bit in doubt of the general American creed of “getting ahead” because I’ve never been able to figure just where “ahead” is. I wonder if the renowned and famous people of this world really enjoy life? Do you think a man with ten million dollars, a fine mansion, a yacht, six mistresses, and a stable of horses really enjoys life? Damned right he does!

Aside from intermittent details about himself, Binder’s capricious chronicle resembles very little in the way of anything that is indeed autobiographical. Unearthed several years ago from his file materials at Texas A&M University, Memoirs is self-described by its author as “ramblings through the untracked wilderness of my mind.” Binder’s potpourri of stray philosophical beliefs, pet peeves, theories, and anecdotes were written in freewheeling fashion and devoid of any charted course— other than allowing his mind to flow with no restricting parameters. The abridged and edited manuscript—serialized here within the pages of FCA—will nonetheless provide glimpses into the idiosyncratic and fanciful mind of Otto O. Binder. In this fifth excerpt, Otto philosophizes on war and peace of mind in a chapter entitled “Whither! Whither! Who’s Got the Whither?” —P.C. Hamerlinck

hither the human race? Damned if I know. Assuming anyone cares, is the human race going forwards or backwards? If it’s going forwards, where is that exactly? Toward more machines? Bigger cities? Better revolutions? Greater famines? Grander wars?

Speaking of wars, I understand there have been far more years in which war has been going on in the world, than years of peace. [Some] will tell you in a conspiratorial tone that wars are always caused by “international bankers” … [or] a small select group of military Machiavellis who sit behind closed doors and decide exactly when and where a war should start … or, best of all, that way off in Tibet, there exists a group of diabolical masterminds who really rule the Earth and keep the human race fighting as a smoke screen. There are no such mythical “groups” who control destiny. The world, I believe, is far too big and complex a place for a few men to shove around as they wish. Even Hitler and Mussolini were only figureheads behind much more huge [sic] and overwhelming forces. The true motives behind wars are incredibly complex. So complex that I for one believe that wars happen not because they are planned by human minds, but because human minds can’t seem to stem the tide of war-fever that periodically grips some segment of Earth.

Dark Comedy Otto Binder, who ruminates over war in this installment of Memoirs of a Nobody, wrote the above “Bulletman” tale (“Comedy of Crime!” from Master Comics #38, May 1943; art by the Jack Binder shop) while World War II raged on overseas. Otto had previously held an editorial position in Fawcett’s comics department for six months after editor Ed Herron was drafted into the Army; but by June of 1942 Otto had returned to full-time freelancing for Fawcett, producing scripts that succeeding year exclusively for the publisher. [Bulletman TM & © DC Comics.]

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who sat on his stoop and counted his blessings, one by one. I wonder if most of us do that often enough. I’ve seen so many people with good jobs, fine homes, easy living, biting their nails because they haven’t got this and they haven’t got that. I jerk myself up now and then and just count my blessings, one by one. I dunno. Maybe I’m a throwback to the 19th century, when such pious platitudes were all the rage. I hate most platitudes myself. Some of them can throw me into a fit of rage. And at times, when sitting on my stoop, I instead count my follies, one by one, so I don’t become smug. Maybe the other way of life is better after all. Where you don’t sit still for a minute. Where you keep striving and pushing and punching, battering down all opposition and getting to the top. Where you are admired, fawned upon, and looked up to. And hated, too. And maybe this “peace of mind” of mine is a chimera, an illusion. Maybe the true thrills of life lie in being daring, facing adventure, living dangerously. What’s the answer, O Solomon?

Purrrsuit Of Happiness Binder hypothesized happiness in Memoirs just as he had the World’s Mightiest Mortal’s fluent feline friend later do in “Mr. Tawny Seeks Happiness,” in Captain Marvel Adventures #117 (Feb. 1951); art by C.C. Beck. The talking tiger recurrently reflected humankind’s—and sometimes Binder’s own particular—foibles and follies. [Shazam hero & Tawny TM & © DC Comics.]

Everybody likes money. But there is one thing money can’t buy: peace of mind! By peace of mind, I mean living from day to day with no great regret of the past and no particular dread of the future. It also means reasonably good health, a heaping measure of love, and a quiet satisfaction in just being alive. Money alone won’t bring those things. Yet without a certain amount of the filthy stuff, you won’t get it, either. Is peace of mind “happiness”? Is that what I mean? I’m glad you asked me that. The answer is no. I have a peculiar theory about happiness. I think happiness is the lack of unhappiness. We have all gone through days or weeks of routine living, in which nothing very exciting or disturbing happened. In fact, we’re a little bored. At times, even out-of-sorts. But then, along comes some big trouble… a sickness in the family, a bad turn of business, a violent quarrel, any of that kind of thing. Presto: we’re miserable, unhappy. And then, we look back at those quiet days before, we suddenly realize that that was when we were happy! We didn’t know it at the time, but that was it. It takes a sharp reminder like the big bad wolf of trouble to make us realize how good we had it before. Our usual belief is that happiness is something that takes hold of you and lifts you singing to the clouds. Well, there are perhaps rare moments like that. But they’re not happiness, just moments of temporary ecstasy. Happiness is just plain old peace of mind. And peace of mind is simply a lack of unhappiness. I think there’s a lot in that line from some poem about the man

Now that I’ve got you as confused as I am, I’ll drop the subject and let you toss and turn on your bed tonight, trying to figure it all out. Happy dreams! Next: NONSENSE AND NAUGHTINESS

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What A Riot! Captain Marvel & The Revolt Of The Comics by John G. Pierce Edited by P.C. Hamerlinck

here was a time when newspaper comics strips were an intrinsic part and parcel of life in the United States (not to mention other countries). Features such as Dick Tracy, Flash Gordon, Terry and the Pirates, Little Orphan Annie, Tarzan, Superman, Batman, The Phantom, The Gumps, and numerous others were daily reading staples for the multitudes. In addition, it should be noted that many later comic book artists had their start by copying the strips during their childhood.

Today, the strips seem to be on life-support, as more and more newspapers go out of business, and there is far more competition for a reader’s attention. However, life-support does not equal death, and some features are finding new life online. Most strips today are humorous in nature, with adventure strips (The Phantom, Prince Valiant, Spider-Man) and soap operas (Judge Parker, Rex Morgan, Mary Worth) being rarities. Still, the strips survive and entertain what must be a fair amount of readers each day, particularly the humor strips with their sometimes gentle, sometimes biting, commentary on daily life and human foibles. Even at their lowest ebb, they probably still have more readers than most current comic books. And when was the last time you saw an issue of X-Men taped to an office door or a cubicle wall?

Wotta Revoltin’ Development This Is! In “The Revolt of the Comics” (Captain Marvel Adventures #22 - March 1943 — the very same issue that launched the legendary “Monster Society of Evil” serial), writer Otto Binder produced satirical send-ups of several popular comic strip characters of the day. Even a takeoff on the 1896 Yellow Kid, sometimes considered the first true comic strip character, made an appearance! Art by C.C. Beck and (mostly) staff. [Shazam hero TM & © DC Comics.]

(Incidentally, Mary Marvel and Wonder Woman appeared in a recent Nancy comic strip. Quite likely more people saw them there than in any comic books—and that could be a good thing!) Anyway, it was against the background of an earlier era of greater prominence and profusion that writer Otto Binder produced a parody of newspaper strips, in the form of one of his earliest scripts for the World’s Mightiest Mortal, entitled “Captain Marvel and the Revolt of the Comics” (Captain Marvel Adventures #22 - March, 1943).

King Of The Bungle In a battle you thought you’d never see, Captain Marvel sends Tarz— er, Zartan flying. [Shazam hero TM & © DC Comics.]

But first, let’s take a quick look at Captain Marvel. Although it is sometimes said that Cap was a parody of Superman, strictly speaking, that was not true. A parody is a direct imitation intended for strictly humorous purposes, such as the material Mad would later produce (including Captain Marbles taking on Superduperman in Mad #4, April-May 1953). Nor was Captain Marvel a pastiche (some of the best examples of super-hero

What A Riot!

story did indeed contain out-and-out parody, as Binder skillfully produced funhouse mirror versions of many of the popular comic strip characters of the day. For instance, there was Zartan, King of the Jungle, obviously intended to be a parody of Tarzan. Clubman and the Bird (who appeared near the beginning of the tale but didn’t play a large role in it) were take-offs on Batman and Robin, while Hash Borden parodied Flash Gordon. Dash Tracer and Peachface filled in nicely for Dick Tracy and one of his numerous hideously-visaged foes, just as a fellow named Barry was obviously intended to invoke Terry of Milton Caniff’s excellent Terry and the Pirates. But perhaps the most masterfully done of the parodies was Little Polly Woeful. Take note of the following monologue, in which Binder proficiently pokes fun at the speech pattern of Little Orphan Annie: “Oh, hello, Mr. Penn. I say hello, but I really mean good-bye for I’m leaving, Mr. Penn, and I don’t know if I’ll ever come back here or not because I just can’t stand it any longer being so sweet and philosophical all the time and never having any fun like other little girls have and I think I’ll just go away and forget all about the Wee Commandoes and Mr. 15 and everybody else! Good-bye! Jumpin’ gizzards!” The story centers around an upheaval by the various comic strip characters against their publisher, the just-mentioned Mr. Penn. Apparently, in this cleverly-twisted “reality” Binder has established, the characters are real, and the strips are simply the result of their actual adventures, or at least adventures they experience in order to provide stories for the comics. But, tired of the grind, they revolt. Oh, Captain Marvel puts them back in their places, of course, although it takes him a while, due in part to his customary restraint in the use of his tremendous powers, and to his reluctance to fight fellow heroes.

See You In The Funny Books!

takeoffs were found in the late, lamented Big Bang Comics line).

Not that he doesn’t use some force when he needs to. He takes care of Zartan in one panel. (Today that same fight would be stretched out for several pages, most likely.)

No, many—though far from all—“Captain Marvel” stories were more along the lines of being satires of the super-hero genre in general, while still being, as Roy Thomas once stated, the best examples thereof. In other words, it was a very multi-faceted feature. It should be noted that “Captain Marvel” was not the only satirical feature of the 1940s: there was Street & Smith’s Supersnipe, as well as Lt. Hercules, Stuporman, Comics McCormick—and even on occasion Fawcett’s own Colonel Porterhouse in Whiz Comics and Sgt. Twilight in Captain Midnight. And decades later, in the ’90s, Alan Moore would pick up Rob Liefeld’s Supreme and utilize that very obvious Superman imitation to craft brilliant satire on not only the Man of Steel but the entire super-hero genre.

And then there are the rebellious kid stars. When the various characters scatter, Captain Marvel decides to go after Barry and Woeful Polly first. “They’re kids—where would I go if I were a kid?” Probably remembering that he is a kid, Cap changes to Billy, who promptly realizes that “Why—of course—I’d head for the nearest amusement park,” where he goes and indeed finds his quarry. “A fine bunch of kids you are! You should be back at the publishing offices keeping the world amused with your adventure stories. Don’t you know that everybody works these days?” Obviously, Billy had a strong work ethic, and expected others, including younger people, to have that, as well. I suspect that many young readers of the day took note of this.

But, to return to “The Revolt of the Comics,” this particular

Their response is to proclaim themselves “ba-a-ad” and start

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throwing things at Billy. So, his attempt at diplomacy having failed, Billy has no choice but to say the word and let Cap take over. Again I can’t help but note what set Captain Marvel apart even from many of his peers at the time, and definitely from their successors of today: the use of force was often a last resort, seldom the first. In handling Barry, Cap simply administers corporal punishment! (Today he’d be arrested for child abuse, of course.) After all, Captain Marvel had the wisdom of Solomon, a man who had 700 wives, plus concubines, so when he wrote that “He who spares his rod hates his son, But he who loves him disciplines him promptly” (Proverbs 13:24), he just might have had some experience backing up his words. Fortunately, Cap is spared from having to administer any such punishment to Polly, whose reaction is, “I thought I had troubles before,” while Barry’s Chinese assistant wails, “Bloo hoo! Is mo’ blettah we fights Japs than Captain Marvel!” In another sequence, Captain Marvel discovers some characters are being pummeled by a crowd of shoppers at a department store. One of the characters being bombarded is Hash Borden, who exclaims, “I wish I’d stayed on the planet Mongrel. Those Leopard-Men were soft compared to these Earth people!” One might note that, in this instance, Captain Marvel was spared having to administer any corrective action. Otto Binder didn’t need to repeat himself, but cleverly handled each situation differently. For instance, although Zartan, having tired of the jungle, had decided to hit the local night clubs, he ends up being thrown out of all of them, so he heads back to Africa.

“Case Of The Funny Paper Crimes” Speaking of Superman—as JGP does in his article—the Man of Tomorrow battled a half-dozen villains who’d stepped out of their newspaper comics in the lead story in Superman #19 (Nov.-Dec. 1942); script by Jerry Siegel, art by the Joe Shuster shop. Repro’d from the hardcover Superman Archives, Vol. 5, which, unfortunately, picked up the tale from a circa-1970 reprint comic that had deleted the Siegel & Shuster byline. Years later, this story was adapted by writer Roy Thomas and longtime “Superman” artist Wayne Boring—minus the Kryptonian, for a post-Crisis on Infinite Earths reality—in All-Star Squadron #64 (Dec. 1986). [© DC Comics.]

So finally everything is back in order, and Mr. Penn, the publisher, proudly shows Captain Marvel his latest batch of comic books in print. Does Penn supply his comics feature both to newspapers and comic books? Perhaps so. In any event, many of the great strips of the past did appear in comic books at one time or another (not to mention those who originated there, such as Superman and Batman), so it’s not a big deal. And Billy, as he often did, closed the story: “So long, folks! See you in the funny papers!” In ten pages, Binder treated readers to humor, a bit of action, and some good lessons, and it didn’t take a lengthy slugfest to bring it about. In fact, as already noted, Captain Marvel made minimal use of his powers. Over the following years, Otto Binder would bend the fabric of reality many times for his “Captain Marvel” stories. Early on, he had hit upon the idea that tongue-in-cheek humor suited Captain Marvel to a T, and would dip into that well again and again.

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“Robots” issue! Cyborg, Metal Men, Robotman, Red Tornado, Mister Atom, the Vision, Jocasta, Shogun Warriors, and Big Guy and Rusty the Boy Robot, plus the legacy of Brainiac! Featuring the riveting work of DARROW, GERBER, INFANTINO, PAUL KUPPERBERG, MILLER, MOENCH, PEREZ, SIMONSON, STATON, THOMAS, WOLFMAN, and more, behind a Metal Men cover by MICHAEL ALLRED.

“Batman’s Partners!” MIKE W. BARR and ALAN DAVIS on their Detective Comics, Batman and the Outsiders, Nightwing flies solo, Man-Bat history, Commissioner Gordon, the last days of World’s Finest, Bat-Mite, the Batmobile, plus Dark Knight’s girl Robin! Featuring work by APARO, BUSIEK, DITKO, KRAFT, MILGROM, MILLER, PÉREZ, WOLFMAN, and more, with a cover by ALAN DAVIS and MARK FARMER.

“Bronze Age Fantastic Four!” The animated FF, the FF radio show of 1975, Human Torch goes solo, Galactus villain history, FF Mego figures… and the Impossible Man! Exploring work by RICH BUCKLER, JOHN BUSCEMA, JOHN BYRNE, GERRY CONWAY, STEVE ENGLEHART, GEORGE PÉREZ, KEITH POLLARD, ROY THOMAS, LEN WEIN, MARV WOLFMAN, and more! Cover by KEITH POLLARD and JOE RUBINSTEIN.

“‘80s Independents!” In-depth looks at PAUL CHADWICK’s Concrete, DAVE SIM’s Cerebus the Aardvark, and RICHARD AND WENDY PINI’s Elfquest! Plus see ‘80s independent comics go Hollywood, DAVID SCROGGY remembers Pacific Comics, TRINA ROBBINS’ California Girls, and DENIS KITCHEN’s star-studded horror/sci-fi anthology Death Rattle. Cover by PAUL CHADWICK!

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COMIC BOOK CREATOR #5 COMIC BOOK CREATOR #6 COMIC BOOK CREATOR #7

DRAW! #28

TECHNIC hot rod builder Paul Boratko and editor Joe Meno diagram instructions on adding functions to your models, shop-talk with LEGO TECHNIC designers, and more surprises to keep your creations moving at top speed! Plus Minifigure Customization by Jared Burks, step-by-step “You Can Build It” instructions by Christopher Deck, BrickNerd Pop Art by Tommy Williamson, and more!

DENIS KITCHEN close-up—from cartoonist, publisher, author, and art agent, to his friendships with HARVEY KURTZMAN, R. CRUMB, WILL EISNER, and many others! Plus we examine the supreme artistry of JOHN ROMITA, JR., BILL EVERETT’s final splash, the nefarious backroom dealings of STOLEN COMIC BOOK ART, and ascend THE GODS OF MT. OLYMPUS (a ‘70s gem by ACHZIGER, STATON and WORKMAN)!

SWAMPMEN: MUCK-MONSTERS OF THE COMICS dredges up Swamp Thing, ManThing, Heap, and other creepy man-critters of the 1970s bayou! Features interviews with WRIGHTSON, MOORE, PLOOG, WEIN, BRUNNER, GERBER, BISSETTE, VEITCH, CONWAY, MAYERIK, ORLANDO, PASKO, MOONEY, TOTLEBEN, YEATES, BERGER, SANTOS, USLAN, KALUTA, THOMAS, and others. FRANK CHO cover!

BERNIE WRIGHTSON interview on Swamp Thing, Warren, The Studio, Frankenstein, Stephen King, and designs for movies like Heavy Metal and Ghostbusters, and a gallery of Wrightson artwork! Plus writer/editor BRUCE JONES; 20th anniversary of Bart Simpson's Treehouse of Horror with BILL MORRISON; and interview Wolff and Byrd, Counselors of the Macabre's BATTON LASH, and more!

FAREL DALRYMPLE shows how he produces Meathaus and Pop Gun War, director and storyboard/comics artist DAVE BULLOCK dissects his own work, columnist JERRY ORDWAY draws on his years of experience to show readers the Ord-way of creating comics, JAMAR NICHOLAS reviews the latest art supplies, plus more Comic Art Bootcamp by BRET BLEVINS and editor MIKE MANLEY! Mature readers only.

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ALTER EGO #125

ALTER EGO #126

ALTER EGO #127

ALTER EGO #128

KIRBY COLLECTOR #63

Golden Age “Air Wave” artist LEE HARRIS discussed by his son JONATHAN LEVEY to interviewer RICHARD J. ARNDT, with rarely-seen 1940s art treasures (including mysterious, never-published art of an alternate version of DC’s Tarantula)! Plus more of AMY KISTE NYBERG’s exposé on the Comics Code, artist SAL AMENDOLA tells the story of the Academy of Comic Book Arts, FCA, Mr. Monster, and more!

Second big issue on 3-D COMICS OF THE 1950s! KEN QUATTRO looks at the controversy involving JOE KUBERT, NORMAN MAURER, BILL GAINES, and AL FELDSTEIN! Plus more fabulous Captain 3-D by SIMON & KIRBY and MORT MESKIN— 3-D thrills from BOB POWELL, HOWARD NOSTRAND, JAY DISBROW and others— the career of Treasure Chest artist VEE QUINTAL, FCA, Mr. Monster, and more!

1940s WILL EISNER/”BUSY” ARNOLD letters between the creator of The Spirit and his Quality Comics partner, art and artifacts by FINE, CRANDALL, CUIDERA, CARDY, KOTZKY, BLUM, NORDLING, and others! Plus Golden Age MLJ artist JOHN BULTHIUS, more of AMY KISTE NYBERG’s History of the Comics Code, FCA, Mr. Monster, BILL SCHELLY, cover by DANIEL JAMES COX and JASON PAULOS!

CAROL L. TILLEY on Dr. Fredric Wertham’s falsification of his research in the 1950s, featuring art by EVERETT, SHUSTER, PETER, BECK, COSTANZA, WEBB, FELDSTEIN, WILLIAMSON, WOOD, BIRO, and BOB KANE! Plus AMY KISTE NYBERG on the evolution of the Comics Code, FCA, Mr. Monster, BILL SCHELLEY, and a new cover by JASON PAULOS and DANIEL JAMES COX!

MARVEL UNIVERSE! Featuring MARK ALEXANDER’s pivotal Lee/Kirby essay “A Universe A’Borning,” KIRBY interview, MARK EVANIER and our other regular columnists, a look at key late-1970s events in Kirby’s life and career, STAN LEE script pages, unseen Kirby pencils and unused art from THOR, NICK FURY, HULK and FANTASTIC FOUR, plus galleries of ETERNALS, BLACK PANTHER, and more!

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ORIGINAL O RIGINAL ART ART A ARCHIVES RCHIVES

TM T M

PRESENTS PRESENTS

R ROBERT OBERT E. E. HOWARD’S HOWARD’S

CONAN CO ONAN ONAN N

RED N RED NAILS NA A AILS

B BY YR ROY OY T THOMAS HOMAS AS & B BARRY ARRY W WINDSORINDSOR- S SMITH MITH O ORDER RDER FROM FROM

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• ORIGINAL ART SCANNED IN COLOR IN HIGH RESOLUTIO RESOLUTION • HARD COVE COVER R WITH SLIP CASE OT TAL 132 PAGES PAGES 14” X 19” T TOTAL SCANNED T TO O CAPTURE THE LOOK OF THE FULL SIZE ORIGINAL ART AS S DRAWN DRA AWN WN

Every beautiful, exquisite art line drawn by Barry Windsor Smith – reproduced exactly as I saw it when writing and editing forty years ago – and the special thrill to me, seeing all of Barry’s original penciled margin notes. This is comic book art, history, and even anthropology/archaeology, all rolled up in one! W Worth orth every penny! -ROY Y THOMASTHOMAS © 2013 2013 Conan Conan P Properties roperties IInternational nternational L LLC. LC. C CONAN, ONAN, C CONAN ONAN R RED ED N NAILS, AILS, C CONAN ONAN T THE HE B BARBARIAN, ARBARIAN, a and nd rrelated elated llogos, ogos, n names ames a and nd ccharacter haracter llikenesses ikenesses a are re ttrademarks rademarks o orr rregistered egistered ttraderadem arks o onan P ro opert nternational L LC. A ights s rreserved. eserved. G enesis W est P ublishing - w w ww w.genesisw we est.com - O riginal A rt A enesis W est- 2 marks off C Conan Properties rties IInternational LLC. Allll rrights Genesis West Publishing www.genesiswest.com Original Art Archives rchives T TM M&C Copyright opyright G Genesis West2013 013

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