T
H
$5.95
E
In The US
A 68-PAGE ISSUE WHERE ANYTHING GO ES!
ISSUE #23, FEB. 1999
C
O
L
L
E
C
A RARELY-SEEN, FEATURE-LENGTH
Kirby Interview UNINKED PENCILS TO
Fantastic Four #49 Silver Surfer FEATURING THE
COMPARING KIRBY’S MARGIN NO TES TO
INTERVIEW WITH
Denny O’Neil REMINISCENCE BY GRANDDAUGHTER
Tracy Kirby UNPUBLISHED STORY FROM
Soul Love A Kirby Contest Fan Art AND
Unpublished Art INCLUDING PENCIL PAGES BEFO RE THEY WERE INKED, AND MUCH MO RE!! NO MINATED FO R TWO 1998 EISNER AWARDS INCLUDING “BEST COMICS-RELATED PUBLICATION”
1998 HARVEY AWARDS NO MINEE “BEST BIOGRAPHICAL, HISTORICAL OR JOURNALISTIC PRESENTATION”
Demon TM DC Comics, Inc. Artwork © Jack Kirby & Alex Horley.
Stan Lee’s Words
Issue #23 Contents: Keeping The Light On ........................4 (Tracy Kirby remembers her grandpa and an old school project) The “What If?” Kirby Never Did ........6 (make way for Darkseid, True Believer!) Questions & Answers Odditorium.....7 (mysteries of the new Kirby Checklist) Kirby Contest!.....................................9 (Uncle Giveaway wants you to enter!) A Nice Story .....................................1 2 (behind the scenes with Captain Nice) Fan Art..............................................14 (our readers share their talents) Car & Driver.....................................1 8 (why the Whiz Wagon is up on blocks) Jack Kirby Interview .........................19 (a feature-length chat from 1987, complete with plenty of war stories) Centerfold: FF #49 Pencils!...............3 4 (Jack’s early Silver Surfer in pencil!) A Failure To Communicate...............3 6 (Part Three of our series comparing Jack’s margin notes to Stan’s dialogue, featuring the Silver Surfer) The Kirby Kronicles .........................4 2 (a fan’s encounter with the King) Two Letters To Jack ..........................4 3 A Kirby Memory ..............................4 3 (a couple of fans in search of Jack’s autograph) Talking With Jack Kirby ...................4 3 (the strangest, shortest interview ever) O’Neil On Kirby ...............................4 4 (Denny O’Neil on Justice Inc. and Richard Dragon, Kung-Fu Fighter) Heart & Soul.....................................4 8 (True Divorce Cases and Soul Love examined in detail) “The Teacher”...................................5 4 (a previously unpublished Kirby story) Classifieds.........................................6 4 Collector Comments.........................6 5
T
ISSUE #23, FEB. 1999
H
THE ONLY ’ ZINE AUTHORIZED BY THE KIRBY ESTATE
E
C
O
L
L
E
C
T
O
R
Jack’s pencils to the Black Bolt pin-up in FF Annual #5.
Front cover painting: Alex Horley Back cover inks, collage, and color: Jack Kirby Photocopies of Jack’s uninked pencils from published comics are reproduced here courtesy of the Kirby Estate, which has our thanks for their continued support. COPYRIGHTS: Atlas, Big Barda, Big Words, Brute, Captain Marvel, Chagra, Demon, Flippa Dippa, Gabby, Glob, Guardian, Henry Jones, In The Days Of The Mob, Jed, Jimmy Olsen, Lightray, Losers, Metron, Mother Box, Mr. Miracle, Mr. Scarlet, Newsboy Legion, Orion, Richard Dragon, Sandman, Scrapper, Soul Love, Spirit World, Superman, Tommy, True Divorce Cases, Whiz Wagon TM & © DC Comics, Inc. • Alicia Masters, Amphibian, Angel, Atlas Monsters, Beast, Black Bolt, Captain America, Cyclops, Daredevil, Dr. Doom, Dr. Strange, DumDum Dugan, Enforcers, Fantastic Four, Franklin, Gorgilla, Hawkeye, Hulk, Human Torch, Iceman, Ikaris, Impossible Man, Indestructible, Invisible Girl, Iron Man, Marvel Girl, Mole Man, Molecule Man, Mr. Fantastic, Nick Fury, Odin, Pepper, Professor X, Punisher, Puppet Master, Quicksilver, Replicus, Scarlet Witch, Silver Surfer, Spider-Man, Sub-Mariner, Thing, Thor, Watcher, X-Men TM & © Marvel Entertainment, Inc. • Alien, Humanoid, Sky Masters, Spaceship © Jack Kirby • Destroyer Duck and all associated characters © Jack Kirby and Steve Gerber • Bullseye, Don Daring, Stuntman, Uncle Giveaway © Joe Simon & Jack Kirby • Captain Nice and all associated characters TM & © NBC-TV • Black Hole and all associated characters TM & © Walt Disney Productions • “The Unexplained Phenomenon of the UFO” © Tracy Kirby
This issue’s front cover is a painting by Alex Horley of a Demon pencil drawing we ran back in TJKC #17. Our back cover this issue is the original Metron concept drawing, in ink, watercolor, and collage by Jack himself! The Jack Kirby Collector, Vol. 6, No. 23, Feb. 1999. Published bi-monthly by & © TwoMorrows Publishing, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. 919-833-8092. John Morrow, Editor. Pamela Morrow, Asst. Editor. Jon B. Cooke, Assoc. Editor. Single issues: $5.95 ($6.40 Canada, $8.40 elsewhere). Six-issue subscriptions: $24.00 US, $32.00 Canada and Mexico, $44.00 outside North America. First printing. All characters are trademarks of their respective companies. All artwork is © Jack Kirby unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter is © the respective authors. PRINTED IN CANADA.
3
Keeping The Light On by Jack and Roz’s granddaughter Tracy Kirby edtime was my favorite part of the day at my grandparents’ house because I knew Grandpa would be in full swing at the drawing table. Each time I fought to sleep on the big, yellow, “smushy” couch in the living room so I could easily sneak into Grandpa’s studio. Now, I’ll admit, I was afraid of the dark. However, I never needed a nightlight because the glow from his studio would always prevail over the evil, threatening shadows. This was the time I had Grandpa all to myself. I would just look through the crack of the door and watch him draw. In my early years, a pen would be in one hand, a pipe in the other. What a wonderful smell! Many times, I came into the studio, sat on the couch, quietly watching. If I was really lucky, he would take a break and tell me one of his amazing mystery or World War Two stories (in the style of Boy Commandos, of course!). Those were the nights I could stay awake forever, just listening and watching. At my age he wasn’t a famous comics artist. I never knew how truly important he was to the world until much later. To me he was magical, my own personal Merlin. He was the greatest storyteller a kid could ask for—and a great grandpa. While duking it out in Hollywood to put Grandpa’s name on the
B
big screen and try writing myself, all the stories and memories keep flooding into my mind. I don’t see the images of Captain America, the Thing (well, except maybe for the “Jewish Thing” on the wall in the studio), Thor, or even the original Boy Commandos page they had on the kitchen wall. I see his beaten-up drawing table, his pipe tray, his entire National Geographic collection and sci-fi books on the shelves, a really dorky picture with him and costumed characters, the Yankee baseball cap he always wore, and the glorious backyard. (The backyard itself requires a separate novel regarding all the wonderful and funny things that happened back there over the years. The UFO story pops into my mind vividly.) So as I start writing and developing the Kirby stories, I can’t help but think back to those precious moments when staying up late was a reward. For me, in those starlit hours, dreams became real and imagination was allowed to run free. I will always thank him for letting me listen and be a part of his creations, and not to mention... for keeping the light on. Tracy Kirby August 13, 1998 4
The
Jack Kirby Checklist:
Questions & Answers Odditorium by Richard Kolkman, compiler of the 1998 Kirby Checklist
rying to compile the definitive Jack Kirby Checklist is like trying to enumerate pí; the closer one gets to the end, the farther away it gets. The solid foundation upon which the additions and corrections were added was Catherine Hohlfeld and Ray Wyman’s The Art of Jack Kirby list. The largest volume of work had already been done. New information added to the list appears to lessen the number of “holes” or questions, but it often creates more labyrinths and avenues on which to chase down and crossreference everything to everything else. Through the research and involvement of a number of knowledgeable Kirby fans around the world, the Kirby Checklist was updated, tiny mistakes and all, to 1998. The road to compiling the updated 1998 edition of the Checklist is littered with good submissions, bad recollections, and a lot of detective work—not to mention having to leap-frog over every Sserpo, Zzutak, Vandoom, and Googam that pops up during a spelling check. Sometimes there is a sobering shock, like discovering that my Strange Tales #127 is missing the pin-up page! (Choke!) Jean Depelley of France sent the information in on Strange Tales #127, and now we all know that there is a dynamic Thing pin-up page by Kirby in that issue. An early Kirby milestone now listed is Wags #64 (March 20, 1938), published in the UK by Joshua B. Powers. This “Count Of Monte Cristo” one-page installment by Kirby and Eisner marks the first original full-page Kirby art to be published—or is it? One obscure mystery that has puzzled me, and has possibly already been disproved by those far more knowledgeable than I, is the comic book Wow—What a Magazine! In an interview (translated by Fabio Paolo Barbieri) in Lucca, Italy in 1976, Jack Kirby told interviewer Nessim Vaturi about his involvement on this comic book:
Kirby mis-remembering his involvement on Fawcett’s Wow Comics as occurring five years earlier, and with a different publisher? It seems as though Kirby would at the least remember the first comic that he had worked on. It’s known that Eisner and Iger were involved with work on this comic book. Does someone out there have the answer? One of the ways to economize on room in the Checklist was to list reprints that were not featured in their entirety as “partial.” Without going into too much detail, the reader can figure out what’s been carved from the Kirby/Lee masterpiece. For example, in Marvel Treasury Edition #11 (which features a new Kirby/Giacoia front and back cover), the reprint of Fantastic Four #51 (“This Man, This Monster”) is reduced to 16 pages from 20 by eliminating pages 10, 11 and 14. Marvel cropped page 9 and added one tier of panels from page 12. The missing material is Johnny Storm and Wyatt Wingfoot (pages 1012), and a photo collage (page 14). This goes to show that no matter how alluring reprints are, it’s still wiser to stick to the “originals.” A big question about the Checklist was raised regarding the designation of “Kirby - a(l)”; this means that Kirby did art on a particular piece, but only in layout form. Also, the Checklist combines original stories and reprints into one long list—because many comics and annuals mix the two types of stories (old and new). To separate those into two lists would either split up hundreds of books such as Fantastic Four Annuals, or list them twice. One of the most interesting mysteries introduced to the Checklist is “A Personal Message From Spider-Man” which appears in Amazing Spider-Man #1. Is it Kirby? “Look at the fingers” was the message written on the Checklist submission. There just might be something to that, so it’s listed. It’s up to the VATURI: “You said earlier that early in fans and historians to decide. Also, I didn’t your career you used to work for a want to believe it, but the proof was book called WOW!” irrefutable; Kirby did two covers KIRBY: “Yes, it was the first magazine for Spidey Super Stories I worked for. Jerry Siegel and (#19 and 20). Will Eisner used to publish However, I may it. They were my bosses have gone too back then, and those were far in agreethe first years of comics, ing to list and WOW—What a Romita’s Magazine! was one of the Kirbyesque first comic magazines.” cover on (above) Are those “Kingfingers”? (left) Daredevil #7 cover. The Overstreet Guide #24. describes WOW—What a Magazine! as a magaOn the other hand, is the cover of Daredevil zine-sized format comic published in 1936 by #7 [shown at left] by Kirby and Wood? The conDavid McKay & Henle Publishing Co., and was sensus that was reached among knowledgeable 52 pages of original and reprint material. The fans is that it’s pure Wood (and dynamic Wood Gerber Photo Journal designates the scarcity of at that!). The new Checklist was also able to discard these books from “8” to “10”, indicating that fewer covers that had been attributed to Kirby for years, than 5 to 20 copies of each issue are presumed to and consign them to find their own place in exist. So how many Kirby experts have even seen comics history. If someone does the George Tuska these comics? Is is possible that Kirby was involved Checklist, then they’ll certainly want to list Iron with this book the year that he was picking up Man #13 (an intense cover); and Tower of Shadows steam with Lincoln Features Syndicate? Was #4 is a dark, swirling Marie Severin and Bill 7
T
Everett masterpiece. They just aren’t by Kirby. There’s a lot of comic art in the world not by Kirby, even if when we were children, it did seem like he did half of it. I’ve always had a pet theory that there is a Kirby/Romita panel in Thor #182 (page 14, panel 2, shown below). Why not? One panel in November 1970 is not as far-out as March 1971’s Fantastic Four #108 paste-up jubilee. While this kind of conjecture is fun, it really doesn’t fit into the Checklist. There are times when the work fairly shouts Kirby, but without substantiation, there’s no use in listing it. The most impressive example of this is in Tales of Suspense #58. Check out page 12, panel 2—Kirby?—or page 4, panel 6; there’s something quite odd between the Heck characters in the background, and the looming “Kirbyesque” figure of Captain America in the foreground [as shown below]. Why is Cap’s right hand resting almost halfway across the room on the point of the desk in front of Pepper? It seems to be an odd paste-up—neither fully Heck, nor fully Kirby; a hasty abomination.
covers was already in full swing by 1971. In concept, “Gigantus” resembles other large fish-like creatures that lumber out of the ocean to wreak destruction. There’s “Titan, The Amphibian From Atlantis” (the only example of Russ Heath inking Kirby) in Tales of Suspense #28. Perhaps this story was renamed because “Titan” was the new name used for the original “Hulk” reprints from Journey into Mystery #62 and 66. (These were reprinted in Monsters on the Prowl #11 and 14.) A quick check reveals that “Hulk/Titan” is not “Gigantus.” Was “Gigantus” a previously unpublished story? It’s unlikely. As a last resort, it’s necessary to read the reprinted story for clues. On page 5, in panel 1, the man in the window refers to “Goliath.” With that revealing slip by the ’70s reletterer, “Gigantus” can be traced to Journey into Mystery #63. It appears that “Goliath” was renamed in deference to the Goliath then-currently appearing in Avengers. It all makes perfect sense. ’Nuff said? The most far-out, bizarre mish-mash of editorial tampering on a 1970s Atlas monster reprint was Where Creatures Roam #5. The cover features the “Abominable Snowman” from the cover of Tales to Astonish #24 and is retitled “Gorgilla” and has the usual additional useless characters added to the cover. The reprinted story inside is actually “Gorgilla Strikes Again” from Tales to Astonish #18. Why couldn’t Marvel just play it straight, and reprint these stories as nature intended? While some mysteries are solved, others appear in the mail. The Checklist has to adopt criteria to keep fringe information from taking on a life of its own. If the Hulk’s head is red in a reprint, and yellow in the original story, it’s not listed. This is too far afield from Kirby’s storytelling and art. Most questionable half-panels and rumored assists are largely left out of the Checklist. A few curious exceptions are included, however. Marvel’s Official Avengers Index lists Avengers #17 as having Kirby retouching faces, primarily on the Mole Man. It sounds far-fetched, and looks as though Kirby must have done the retouching with his hands tied behind his back, but who can disprove it? Heck, in a similar vein, Avengers Special #1—page 48, panel 3, shown here—features a reduced photostat from the cover of Avengers #25. What was wrong with the panel the way it was originally penciled? For reasons unknown, Kirby penciled only portions of some comic covers. A few of these covers appear to be pre-planned, such as Secret Origins #19 (1987), which features a new Kirby/ Anderson Golden Guardian figure. But other covers appear to suffer from a form of editorial tampering. Amazing Spider-Man #10 [shown on next page] and 35 both feature Kirby Spider-Man figures. Were these originally part of whole Kirby covers? Or were they doctored and pasted-up, reducing Kirby’s contri-
An important unanswered puzzle lost in the mists of time is: How many pages was Kirby’s try-out for the new Spider-Man character in Amazing Fantasy #15? I listed two, because Stan Lee said “a couple” of sample pages were completed (in his Comic Book Marketplace interview). But Steve Ditko remembers around five pages, when they were given to him to inspect before he created his definitive version of Spider-Man. Perhaps Ditko is more accurate, because Stan’s “couple” could still mean five after 38 years. Do these pages even exist today, true believer? The most ambitious phase of the Checklist was to cross-reference all of Kirby’s reprinted stories to their original publication. Marvel’s 1970s horror reprints were the toughest nut to crack. In their indefinable wisdom, Marvel renamed many of their monster stories in an effort to comply with current super-hero and villain names. Not only were the monster names relettered, but often topical references to S.H.I.E.L.D. were thrown in for current effect. Consider the mysterious case of Where Monsters Dwell #10. It features an obviously reprinted story called “Gigantus”—but where is it from? There’s “Gargantus” in Strange Tales #80, and the “Return Of Gargantus” in Strange Tales #85, but neither of these are it. In desperation, let’s examine “Iron Man Vs. Gargantus” in Tales of Suspense #40—but even before the lid comes off of the comic box, it’s an apparent dead end. The redundant (but good) new Marie Severin artwork added to the cover of Where Monsters Dwell #10 does not confuse the question of prior publication. Marvel’s horrible practice of butchering Kirby’s Atlas 8
Jack Davis, John Prentice, Andy Warhol (in his early days), Frank Frazetta, and many others. Around 1966, a new show was to air on NBC called Captain Nice. This show, like most all other shows in prime time television, was produced by other companies and sold to the network. My father’s job (among others) was to advertise in the aforementioned media for all new and current shows. That’s where I came in! Mr. Graham’s adolescent son Bruce (that’s me!) was always showing his dad all the new Marvel and DC comics because his son supremely admired the artists in these publications and collected to obsession all the comic books of his favorite artists. (He even bought two or three of the same issues at a time. He also wanted to be a comic book artist and attended the High School of Art & Design— but that’s another story.)
A Nice Story by Bruce Graham y late father, John J. Graham, was the Director of Design of the NBC television network from the 1940s to 1976. He was responsible for advertising and the “look” of the network in that era. He created many of the NBC logos including the NBC “snake” and the NBC peacock. In those days, illustration artists were widely used for television, magazine, and newspaper ads. My father was the one who hired these artists for NBC. Among those he used, that I know of, are James Bama,
M
12
galaxy-sized concepts to those minute, slo-mo panel sequences he loved so much. And all those years later it still felt weird. Again I say “felt.” Jack’s comics don’t look real, but they feel real, which is your take-home-pay long after your Mom throws out the book. About this time I was writing and editing for the UCLA Daily Bruin and I gave myself the assignment of writing a series of interviews with cartoonists. I landed Will Eisner, Chuck Jones, and Milt Caniff. I wanted a fourth, so I started shelling Mark Evanier with phone calls. To get rid of me, Mark arranged some time with Jack. Half of that conversation still exists on tape, which you have here. Back then I thought, if I have a chance to talk to
Jack Kirby Interview Interviewed by Ben Schwartz on December 4th, 1987 Originally published in the UCLA Daily Bruin on January 22, 1988
(Ben Schwartz comments: Maybe The Jack Kirby Collector isn’t the place to say it, but Jack creeped me out. Upon reading my first Jack Kirby comic, Mister Miracle #18, a friend and I—John Francis Moore, a current comics writer—had identical reactions. Decades before we ever met—me in Kenosha, WI, John in Huntington Beach, CA—our respective seven- and nine-year-old minds wrapped around Mister Miracle’s last issue and we thought: What IS this? Who are all these characters? Who is Vermin Vundabar, and that dwarf, and that huge woman Barda? And worst of all, Granny Goodness, who still ranks in my opinion as the most frightening character ever created in comics? And why was it the last issue? Superman, Richie Rich, Archie—they never had last issues. And that big stone guy at the end, Darkseid, laughing in that endless, awful way over a joke only he got—it was crazy. To us, everything about Mister Miracle #18 seemed dark, elusive, and confusing. What is this? Like I said, Jack creeped me out. It happened again. The next year, age 8, my asthma kept me home from school and my Mom bought me a “Mighty Thor” Treasury Edition, which reprints Thor’s epic battle with Hercules and Pluto (over-sized comics still kick ass, by the way). Pluto appears as a Hollywood producer who forces Thor down an infinity stairway to Hades. His face twists into an evil leer and it felt— felt—expansive, confident, brilliant. It made me afraid; so much so that I had to put down the book and wait till bedtime to finish it (a mistake—the nightmares!); and at the end, the villains beaten and the day saved, Thor just sat on a rock out in the middle of the ocean, a lonely, bummed-out Thunder God. Huh? This is a happy ending? Superman never sat on rocks. Batman and Robin swung off into the night, case closed, Joker in jail. And Richie Rich—well, he was still rich. Again, I thought, what is this? Yeah, Jack creeped me out. By the time I got to college I had pretty much written super-heroes off (and still do), but I started looking through Kirby reprints. I loved his oddly shaped characters. I saw the boldness of his original concepts as opposed to the ninety-ninth generation of them the publishers hacked out that month. I hunted up Mister Miracle #18. And instead of Jack overwhelming me, I grooved on just how big the guy thought, the power he packed into his panels, and how he lept from Jack cut the Barda face out of this xerox from Mister Miracle #5 to restore the one Mike Royer altered while inking. 19
that still left him speechless some forty-three years later. That’s on the tape, too. And when Jack tried to describe the horror, trying to find words that still wouldn’t come, I felt seven again. It creeped me out. Jack, too, I’d guess. But right then I knew I’d found what I’d come for, to find out what shaped the man, and how he put into pictures what he couldn’t put into words. But then Jack would shift gears, telling me how funny the war was, like Gen. Patton, furious at seeing Jack alive, or Marlene Dietrich singing to Jack while Nazi shells dropped around their ears. Jack laughed at this, this comedy in the middle of tragedy—and suddenly I knew just what Darkseid was laughing at in his awful way. Jack had seen the big joke, the kind only the gods get—and that really creeped me out. The tape opens with me, still obsessed with Thor, trying to pin Jack down on how he composed the panels for the battle with Hercules. Why is everything symmetrical? Why is good seen as the equal of evil? Why, why, why? And then, Jack told me. JACK KIRBY: It’s not my intention to do great art. It’s my intention to do great story. And whatever effect I’m trying to get has to come across. It’s just my own way of working. I feel that if I’m telling an effective story, which is my job, I’ll sell the magazine—and of course, that’s also my intention. BEN SCHWARTZ: You talk about not wanting to do “great art,” but you have Thor battling Hercules, and you wanted to show them as equals. All these panels are symmetrical, balanced. JACK: I designed ’em, believe me. The pages are made so that they don’t clash with the reader’s vision. So you’ll find that they’re balanced. BEN: Well, as far as this issue goes, it just struck me that you were dealing with two characters, equals, good and evil, and you have it all expressed through the art, the images. JACK: Yes, and believe me, balance is involved. Balance, design, nothing that would clash with the eye. ROZ KIRBY: Nowadays in comic books they break the panels up in all such crazy ways. Have you see them? Kirby’s original, unused cover to Thor #141.
JACK: Well nowadays you can’t follow continuity.
Jack Kirby, what I want to know is how he became Jack Kirby. By that I mean, what does a guy have to go through to come up with comics so disturbing, dark, and wild that I was too scared to read them? On meeting Jack, I immediately told him about that scare. “Oh,” he said, suddenly contrite, “I’m sorry. Really.” I reassured him that an apology wasn’t what I had come for; but that scare is what our conversation turned on, since, as you’ll see, it’s almost entirely about Jack’s lifelong experience dealing with evil—real evil. From the violent slums of the Lower East to the Third Reich to the Marvel Age, Jack saw evil in so many forms. He told me he could draw these things because he knew them. Jokingly, I asked if that meant he ever knew a guy like Pluto. “Oh yeah,” Jack laughed. “Oh, I knew ’em. Believe me.” I laughed, too, but I knew then—Jack meant it. He had seen that evil. He had marched through Normandy days after D-Day while Allied casualties (whole or in pieces) still lay dead on the beach, an experience
ROZ: Yeah, it’s very difficult. BEN: Actually, the guy who does that well is Howard Chaykin. JACK: Well, he has his own style and Chaykin tells a story his own way—but I get a lot of the new books and I notice that some of the guys go a little too far out, where you really have to work to follow the story; and symbolism—I didn’t put in that much symbolism. I happen to know people—and I just put people down as I knew ’em—and villains would do the same things I knew villains would do. BEN: So you knew someone like Pluto? JACK: [laughs] Oh yeah. Oh, I knew ’em. Believe me. BEN: Well, people talk about how fast you are as a penciler, so when 20
you’re working as fast you do—I mean, is the idea to show these two as equals, with that balance?
stories. I wrote the plots. I did the drawings—I did the entire thing because nobody else could do it. They didn’t know how to do it or want to do it and they didn’t give a damn. They were taking money they invested in the magazines and putting it in something else. But I made a living off that. So I put out magazines that sold. I made sure they sold.
JACK: Sure. BEN: Okay. Then to do it that fast, did it just happen as you drew it? JACK: No. My idea was that there is just as much strength in evil as there is in love, see? And that’s why evil is such a danger—the fact that it is so strong—and so I would try to portray it that way.
BEN: I’ve heard stories where an artist would watch a publisher tear up his pages if he didn’t like him. JACK: Sure!
BEN: Is that why The New Gods is about balance, too? You have Orion and the New Gods in New Genesis and then Darkseid—
BEN: And that amazed me. Because you think this is America, right? This shouldn’t happen here.
JACK: Orion and The New Gods is an allegory, really. And the New Gods are just a continuation of the old gods. [In] the old gods, Loki was an evil god. Thor was a good god, a god of virtues. But not only as an allegory, I had Thor as a human being, examining himself saying: “Here I am, I’m supposed to be a great guy, right? Why do I kill people?”
JACK: Well, I’m telling you about an altogether different generation— a generation that did that. A generation that would take guys at the newspapers, telling a great story one day, and the next day they’d throw him out on his pants. You know, they’d just throw him out the door. And people were like that. So, they don’t do that anymore. I think they’ve more or less grown up—and I thank God for that. I thank God that we can all sit and reason with each other.
BEN: Yeah, that’s the last panel here [Thor again] where he’s sort of asking, “What good is it to be a god if you have to temper it?” JACK: Of course, of course, and that’s his problem. Loki finds no problem with that, see? In other words he’s an arrogant type, see? He says, “As long as I’ve got this power and I’m born with it, what am I supposed to do— waste it?”
BEN: So you think the industry has improved?
BEN: There are a lot of consistent ideas in your books, like the use of power. JACK: Yes. BEN: When was it that you first became conscious of these themes? JACK: Well, just working in the comics field you can feel the pushes and pulls of power. In other words, the publisher was the All Power. In order to stay working you had to work along the publisher’s guidelines or else you’d put out a magazine for yourself, which you couldn’t do. In my day money was hard to come by, so risking money was a very hazardous task. So we stayed within the editor’s guidelines—but my sales were very effective so the publisher couldn’t argue much with me, see? So I had an easier time of it than the average guy. BEN: Yeah, in the last ten years comics have changed where you’ll have someone like John Byrne making hundreds of thousands of dollars. JACK: Oh, sure. BEN: And he has all this power to do whatever he wants. But for someone like you in your era, was it much different then? JACK: Yes. Because I took a beating for John Byrne. It was in my generation that the publisher came to learn that sales depended on how you treated the artist. I mean, if he was really good—and that no idea was really a bad one. You gotta give an idea a chance to grow. And I did that with the Marvel books. I wrote the
Unfinished Mister Miracle #3 page. 21
Page 7 pencils from Fantastic Four #49, showing some of Jack’s earliest work on the Silver Surfer.
A Failure To Communicate: Part Three by Mike Gartland (featuring Jack’s uninked pencils from Fantastic Four #49)
Rough Surfing n the last article in this series, we read how Galactus first appeared on the scene in Fantastic Four #48, and that after he left he wasn’t supposed to return for a very long time. Perhaps this was why, at the end of that story, a reminder of the mysteries of the Universe was left behind: The Silver Surfer. To Jack this was just another plot thread, to be picked up and used for future stories and adventures; he had no idea at the time of the importance of what he had created. Stan Lee, however, found out soon enough through fan response; the Surfer was sensational. The Surfer must rank among Kirby’s greatest creations; but believe it or not, Jack’s Surfer was short-lived, lasting about two-anda-half years. One must come to understand that there were actually two Surfers: The version Jack created and the one Lee “re-created.” Many are familiar with the often-repeated story of how Lee was presented with the penciled pages to FF #48, only to be surprised by the new character in the story. (Apparently when Jack discussed the plot with Stan he either neglected, or hadn’t yet thought of, the inclusion of the Surfer.) Roy Thomas was present when this occurred and it is he we have to thank for honestly relating a true story that Marvel historians can be sure of. Had Roy not been there and told the tale to readers, in my opinion the Surfer would have become yet another Kirby creation forever mired in the “co-created” ambiguousness associated with the “Lee/Kirby” creations. Jack’s Surfer can only be seen in issues of Fantastic Four.
I
(above) The Surfer drops in (literally) on Alicia in FF #49. (next page) The turning point of the Galactus Trilogy. 36
thing different about it. “Dynamic” is the word I would use now; I probably didn’t know that word when I was 7. But I remember while Captain America wasn’t one of my big favorites, it was a book I enjoyed. You know, [at] seven years old in the Midwest, it doesn’t occur to you that human beings had done this, (laughter) that there might be names attached to it. And then of course when I went to work for Stan, Jack was one of the very first people I met. I remember watching him work in the office and being so new to the business that I didn’t know how astonishing it was that that guy was sitting there and that as fast as his hand could move, pictures were emerging. (laughter)
O’Neil On Kirby Denny O’Neil interviewed by Bob Brodsky (Like Jack Kirby, Denny O’Neil stands as one of comics’ most prolific talents. While Kirby’s best work relied mainly on the power of his artwork and the cosmic scope of his ideas, O’Neil has walked a different sort of beat. For nearly 35 years he has infused his writing with intelligence, craft and groundbreaking characterization. Originally a journalist, O’Neil began his comics’ career at Marvel in 1965, writing “Dr. Strange” and the occasional Daredevil story for Stan Lee. In 1967 he joined Dick Giordano at Charlton, where, under the pen name “Sergius O’Shaugnessy” he contributed the well-remembered comic book novella “Children of Doom” and Wander, a marvelous sciencefiction/western strip. O’Neil came to DC with Giordano in late 1967 and promptly settled into an incredible six-year run that began with The New Wonder Woman in 1968 and ended with The Shadow in 1974. O’Neil’s considerable creative accomplishments during this period included updating The Justice League and Superman, returning Batman to his “obsessed avenger” roots and introducing “relevance” to comics with his and Neal Adams’ astonishing Green Lantern/Green Arrow series. In the process, he elevated comics to a new place of respect among fans, professionals and, incredibly enough, the “real world” outside the medium. Denny left DC for a writer/ editor position at Marvel in the late-1970s, where he detailed Tony Stark’s struggle with alcoholism in Iron Man and mentored a young Frank Miller before returning to DC in 1985. The late 1980s brought his gritty revival of Steve Ditko’s ’60s Charlton character, The Question, a series O’Neil considers his most honest work to date. Now group editor of the Batman line and the writer/creator of Azrael, O’Neil has also written extensively outside of comics including novels, teleplays and short stories.) THE JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR: When did you first become aware of Jack and his work? DENNY O’NEIL: Probably before I became a professional. I started buying some Marvel comics when I was still a reporter and I imagine that there had to be some Jack Kirby in there. And actually, if you want to tell the strict truth, probably when I was 6 or 7, because I remember reading Captain America and being struck by the artwork. I couldn’t even articulate that I liked it. I just remember that there was some-
TJKC: How well did you get to know Jack during your mid-’60s stay at Marvel? DENNY: Oh, just to say hello to. I don’t think we ever spent an evening
Kung-Fu Fighter #3 pencils. “Jim Dennis” is a pseudonym for Denny and a friend who co-created the character. 44
hearkened back to all the big hits he had with Joe Simon in the ’40s and ’50s. Look at the list of rehashes: The Guardian and the Newsboy Legion (in Jimmy Olsen); Sandman (in his own book, where Jack even reteamed with Joe Simon one last time); Manhunter (a oneshot in First Issue Special); the Losers (an attempt to play off the wartime success of Boy Commandos?); the Demon (shades of Black Magic!); and the Dingbats of Danger Street (another go at the venerable “Kid Gang” concept). DC even tried reprints of such S&K classics as Black Magic and Boy Commandos. Apparently publisher Carmine Infantino felt that after acquiring Marvel’s creative powerhouse, the best route to take would be to send him down the paths (and genres) that had sold millions of Simon & Kirby comics in the past. It’s a credible strategy from a publishing standpoint—building off of past successes—but there’s one thing that apparently wasn’t considered: Jack’s constant desire to create “the next big thing” in comics. He would never be content to simply look to his past glories, and to his credit he always attempted to bring something new to these triedand-true concepts. Still, in the early days Kirby was allowed some conceptual freedom. The groundbreaking Fourth World took the super-hero genre to new heights, and several magazine concepts were devised, with at least a full issue drawn of four of them (although only In The Days of the Mob and Spirit World were ever published, albeit in a format different than what Jack originally envisioned)—and Kirby’s opening page for True Divorce Cases #1. while these magazines were also rooted in the best-selling Simon & Kirby genres (crime, horror, and romance), the end result was unlike anything the S&K team had ever produced, particularly in the romance vein.
Heart & Soul
True Divorce Cases and Soul Love examined by John Morrow
Breaking Up Is Hard To Do
irby’s early days at National Periodicals in the 1970s must’ve seemed to him like a time of infinite possibilities. After a period of strained relations with the Marvel “House of Ideas” he helped build, his new contract at DC was a chance to start fresh and try a plethora of new, daring ideas he’s not wanted to relinquish to the Marvel mill. But throughout Jack’s five years at DC, his work continually
For Jack’s first try, he created what’s been dubbed the first antiromance comic. True Divorce Cases (or True Life Divorce, as it was also known from time to time during its inception) was—like In The Days of the Mob and Spirit World—Kirby’s attempt at upscale, adult-oriented magazine fare. While divorce had always been a taboo subject, the “free love” mindset of the 1960s led to a surging divorce rate in America by 1970, and Jack looked to take advantage of this growing social trend.
K
48
While the concept may seem odd by today’s standards, this was cutting edge for 1970. Jack intended this to be for adults (assistant Steve Sherman even remembers a rather risqué photo shoot involving a woman in leopard-skin underwear, a bed, and a motorcycle; this would’ve been used either on the cover or as part of a photo story inside the magazine). Perhaps it was a little too hard-hitting, for after Jack’s penciled pages for the entire book were handed in, the idea was shelved. A trip to the 1998 Comic-Con International in San Diego gave me a firsthand look at most of the original art from the book. In TJKC #20, we offered a glimpse at the three-page story “The Cheater” that
would’ve ended the mag, and the remarkable “The Other Woman”, a ten-page tale with an unexpected ending. Also done for the issue was the thirteen-page “The Maid”, a story of the conflicts that can arise when a liberated woman enters the workforce, and leaves the housework (and unknowingly, her husband’s emotional upkeep) to a beautiful young maid. (Here’s another then-current trend Jack was exploiting to good effect: The Woman’s Liberation movement that caused such upheaval in the late 1960s-early 1970s.) Next up was “The Twin,” a seven-pager dealing with the trials and temptations of having an exact double (or in this case, a more outgoing, sexually-charged version) of your wife in the house. (Although almost the entire issue has been lettered, only the first two pages of “The Twin” have been partially inked by Vince Colletta; the rest of the book remains in pencil form.) Upon reading these stories, I discovered a remarkably mature Kirby telling tales of love gone wrong and relationships ending. (Or do they? There were surprise twists throughout.) Marriage Counselor Geoffrey Miller was the narrator of the tales, offering snippets of advice at the end of each case. Of the four stories I’ve read, there’s not a dud in the bunch. The same goes for the female leads of each; these pages ooze sensuality, and the women depicted are— to this writer’s mind— the sexiest of Jack’s career. From the striking good looks of ingénue Ingrid and the mature beauty of Myra in “The Maid”, to the buxom playfulness of sisters Edna and Charlotte in “The Twin”, Jack captured the feminine form in all its wonderful variety. (Three other examples—the WASPish Janet in “The Cheater” and the catlike Jessica and matronly Evelyn in “The Other Woman”—were shown in TJKC #20, as well as an intriguing “next issue” illo showing four more varied Kirby women.) The entire issue is a gripping read, filled with art by Jack at his peak, 49
55
IF YOU ENJOYED THIS PREVIEW, CLICK THE LINK TO ORDER THIS ISSUE IN PRINT OR DIGITAL FORMAT!
Metron TM DC Comics, Inc. Artwork © Jack Kirby.
KIRBY COLLECTOR #23 Rarely-seen KIRBY INTERVIEW, UNINKED PENCILS from FANTASTIC FOUR #49, comparison of KIRBY’S margin notes to STAN LEE’S words, interview with DENNY O’NEIL, 7th Grade school project by granddaughter TRACY KIRBY (illustrated by her grandpa!), unpublished story from SOUL LOVE, unpublished art, pencil pages before inking, & more! KIRBY/ALEX HORLEY cover! (68-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital edition) $2.95 http://twomorrows.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=98_57&products_id=449