WomenCinemakers, Special Edition, Vol.13

w o m e n

INDEPENDENT

ANTI-COOL DANIELLE GEORGIOU JULIA KATER JANA WISNIEWSKI ANNIE GOLIATH JOAN WIND ZOE SIM MATTINA HIWAZI DANNI SPOONER SYLVIA SCHWENK INGRID NACHSTERN

WOMEN’S CINEMA

cINEMAKERS

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Contents 04 Ingrid Nachstern

164 Annie Goliath

Table Manners/Stopping at Red Lights

An Attempt to Devour Time

52

186

Sylvia Schwenk Library of emoji art

Jana Wisniewski On Stage In Open Space

84

206

Danni Spooner

Julia Kater

FAG

Breu

108

226

Zoe Sim & Mattina Hiwaizi

Danielle Georgiou

the Princess and the Frog

Salt Bone

140

252

Joan Wind

Anti-Cool

Solo Vacation

Upir

Women Cinemakers meets

Ingrid Nachstern I have had my dance company,Night Star Dance Company since 2003. The strange thing is that I never set out intentionally to be a choreographer,filmmaker,script writer,performer.It all really happened by accident! I used to teach ballet for adults (in addition to running a ballet school) and it was while I was looking for a piece of music for one of their classes that I came across Concert Waltz by Gounod.I fell into what can only described as a trance and choreographed a short dance piece. I had never experienced anything like this before! I thought that I had created a masterpiece! In fact the piece was pretty mundane.However I was encouraged by Anica Louw -a South African ballet teacher living in the midlands in Ireland-to continue. She wrote me a three page letter-I had sent her the video of the piece-and she said that I had a ‘good eye’. You can’t imagine how valuable a little encouragement was in the beginning-even now! She also introduced me as a ‘choreographer’ when I myself was very loathe to use this title.

An interview by Francis L. Quettier and Dora S. Tennant womencinemaker@berlin.com

Hello Ingrid and welcome to : we would introduce you to our readers with a couple of questions about your background: you studied ballet as a child with Muriel Catt in Dublin and later with Richard Sugarman in Toronto and Joanna Banks in Dublin: how did these experiences influence the evolution of your dance practice?

Moreover, how does your dued to your travels and to the fact that your parents were immigrants as

well as to your studies in Trinity College Dublin does address your artistic research?

Yes I did study ballet as a child with Muriel Catt in Dublin from age 3-17. As I was an only child, my mother sent me to ballet classes when I was 3 so I would meet other children.I was quite intense as a child (and still am!) but was also very shy(which I now am not!). I did not enjoy ballet classes with Muriel Catt.I was very shy and found any kind of public performance excruciating.Also Muriel Catt was extremely strict and I often would end up in tears after class. When I was ten I said to my mother that I didn’t want to go to classes any more and she said (remember this was the 1960s!) ‘Well you are

Women Cinemakers dear’. I only enjoyed my last year at ballet when Nadia Stiven used to assist Ms Catt in class. I am now however deeply grateful to my mother because had I given up classes at a very early age I would not now enjoy going to daily ballet class.Ballet class is now my reference point in the structure of my day. My first ever piece of choreography was called Swirling Leaves to the Faust Waltz by Charles Gounod. It was in fact a ballet piece.It was never shown publicly and sits in my video on the shelf in my study! I have to say that it wasn’t very good!

It was however my first ever piece of choreography created after the death of my father.I was teaching ballet to adults at the time and was looking for a piece of music to use in class.I then went into what I can only describe as a trance and choreographed the whole piece about 5 minutes long.I thought it was a masterpiece! However Anica Louw a ballet colleague in Ireland very kindly had a look at it for me and then took the trouble to write me a three page letter about it.I very nervously opened her letter (no email then!) and I remember her saying that I had a ‘good eye’. To be honest had she rubbished the work I would have gone under my duvet and probably never choreographed another work! So I am very grateful to her for this and for her subsequent support. She invited me several times to stay at Shawbrook (an artist residence in the midlands in Ireland) and would introduce me at meal times as a ‘choreographer’ at a time when I myself didn’t have the nerve to call myself one.

I attended ballet classes given by Richard Sugarman in Toronto. I was there in the city with my husband for three years as he had to do some psychiatric training.I however did not have a work permit.I had been working as a translator in Dublin and was a bit of a workaholic.

Going to ballet in Toronto -which I did in the end on a daily basissaved me and gave me a focus.I also went to the University of Toronto for a year to learn German and after that to the Goethe Institute there. I worked as an outreach worker (voluntarily) for the Italian community centre too.But it as daily ballet class which carried me through those three years.Richard Sugarman used to teach I think at the National Ballet of Canada and I found him and his classes so inspiring. I used to cycle downtown to his classes every day!

Women Cinemakers

We came back to Dublin in 1988 with our eldest daughter and in 1989 our youngest daughter was born. We had lived in Oxford in the meantime and I had intended to get back to ballet classes but for some reason that didn’t happen.However back in Dublin I started going to Joanna Bank’s evening ballet classes.I found them to be very inspirational and I used to go once a week and then after a couple of years twice a week. The classes gave me a certain freedom -freedom to move and freedom for self expression. I remember seeing Joanna do the dragon-fly step in class and thought that it was amazing! (I used this step in my second work Pilot’s Wife-aka Stepford Lady which was never shown publicly!).It was during this time that I decided that I would train to be a ballet teacher. I had had a breast cancer scare at the time and decided,if I got the all-clear,this was what I would do. Joanna was very encouraging telling me that I had a good line and a passion for ballet. She gave me a very good reference for the Royal Academy of Dance in London and very soon after I started their teacher training (with Karen Wignall who was very supportive).In 1997 I set up my own ballet school(Nachstern Ballet School) and ran it for 19 years till last year.I so enjoyed teaching ballet to the children and making up dances for them for our Summer Show which was held every two years. I do miss it now but my plan was to spend 50% of my time in London and 50% in Dublin.Unfortunately I did not have someone to cover my classes so I decided that it would be best to close the school. I took a sabbatical in 2016 from Sept-Dec in London and so enjoyed the buzz of living there. My film work is transportable in that I can work anywhere. During that time I would work for an hour in the morning on my film work and then go to daily ballet class at Dance Works. I have discovered a very good teacher there called Anna du Boisson.I so adore her classes! We get on very well and she encourages,and gives me tips,on a daily basis. There is also magnificent piano accompaniment to class given by either John Sweeney or Nicki Williamson. I now spend every second month in London and

replicate this schedule. My mother is English and apart from living for three years in Oxford and London with my husband in the late 1980s,I also used to spend six weeks every summer in Leeds with her,visiting my relatives.

Now the issue of cultural substratum. Both my parents were immigrants to Ireland.My father was a Ukranian-born Pole and my grandparents were Polish and my mother was English. So that meant that we were outsiders. I think that only now I have accepted that I will always be an outsider.As regards my work this allows me great freedom as I know that boundaries,political entities,governments are not set in stone and can change quite quickly. My father and grandparents had to flee Eastern Europe during the Second World War.The fact that my father was a classical violinist saved his life. My preoccupation with bourgeois conceits,such as dinner parties in Table Manners/Stopping at Red Lights,comes from my father.My father,and grandparents, suffered so much during the war in that they had to leave their home on two occasions, in the middle of night.I so admire my late father as despite this suffering he had a very light approach to life.His family and his music were what was important. He couldn’t take such things as dinner parties for example seriously.Don’t get me wrong -he was a marvellous guest or host but had not time at all for ‘keeping -up-with-the-Joneses’!

Every year my parents and I would visit somewhere in Europe for a holiday for a few weeks. This was very unusual in the 1950s in Ireland. I was a bit of an oddity as no one else in my class travelled like this. We had lovely long train journeys through Italy and France particularly.There was something magical about smelling the sea,then seeing it from the train in eastern Italy as a child.

I tried so hard as a child to fit in in school.For starters,with my name,this was no mean feat! As I say it is only now that I feel that I can lay claim to both of my heritages. Living in London suits me so well and gives me a lovely freedom. Of course I am

Women Cinemakers still an outside there but somehow it doesn’t seem to matter so much.Also I have grown up with a lot of the cultural references such as the BBC,Radio 2/4,The Guardian/The Observer,British soaps (these I remember watching with my aunt in Leeds.Sometimes the ice cream van would arrive outside heralded by its jingles). My mother came from a working class background and my father from an aristocratic one. My maternal grandmother was Countess Tyraska and in order not to lose her I now use her name on my Instagram account!

I studied Modern Languages in Trinity College Dublin. My father spoke seven languages so I couldn’t compete with that! I studied French and Italian and added German later on when I was in Canada. I have always been interested in languages. This will account for the fact that some Spanish (am trying to learn it at the moment!) is spoken and some German is written on placards in Table Manners/Stopping at Red Lights. I was taught how to think in Trinity College and had some wonderful lecturers including Prof Francis Higman and Prof Barbara Wright both from the French Departments. They say youth is wasted on the young and that is very true! Had I got my time again I think I would have socialized more and studied less!

My husband said to me recently after we had been to BAIDE in Buenos Aires (well I attended it and he came for a few days after it!) that an airport lounge was my natural habitat! And funnily enough I think that he is right and that there is a lot of truth in that. Being an artist requires you to stand outside of things and observe. I am uniquely placed to do this because of my background.

To sum up ballet is now my reference point in my dance practice. Even though I don’t use its vocabulary as much as in the early days in my work (Pilot’s Wife-aka Stepford Lady,Only Some People Die) it is always my starting point. In Table Manners/Stopping at Red Lights there is a little bit of contemporary dance but also some very stylized movement.

In Freedom-to go! again there is some contemporary dance in a broad sense and a tiny bit of Irish dancing! In Shoe Horn/Office we have some waltzing and again a little bit of contemporary dance. I will use whatever dance style, or text for that matter, which will help me to

Women Cinemakers make my point and carry it to the audience.

I had never visited Poland until five years ago,at my daughter's suggestion. I was reluctant to go as my father had never returned and during the Cold War it wasn't really feasible to do so.However we went to Krakow for a few days. It was a wonderful experience -I had feared that it might be a bit traumatic. I don't speak Polish but my Polish granny lived with us until her death when I was 12.I picked up some phrases over the years.I used the same phrases during the trip and was complimented on my accent by a waiter at one of the cafes we visited! It is a beautiful language.When we arrived at the hotel I just stood in the foyer for a few minutes to listen to Polish being spoken all around me. we have selected , an extremely interesting dance video that our readers have already started to get to know in the introductory pages of this article.

Centered on , this stimulating film has at once impressed us of for the way you have been capable of providing the results of your artistic research with such , inviting the viewers to such a experience: when walking our readers through the genesis of , would you tell us what did direct you to explore this theme?

For this special edition of

I got the idea of making the work of Table Manners/Stopping at Red Lights (it was a live theatre piece before it was made into a film) after reading about a man in the North of England.He had gone on a rampage killing people as he drove from village to village. But what struck me most forcibly was that,in the midst of this mayhem,he stopped at the traffic lights en route through the villages. I found this to be extraordinary behaviour. He had broken all social norms up to and including killing people but some residual social norm still prevented him from breaking a red light.

This then got me thinking of behaviour at a dinner party,a dinner party being a fairly normal event for most people.However I

Women Cinemakers decided to push the limits of engagement between the persons at the dinner party and use different accents to make various points. It has only occurred to me now whilst writing this that no one eats at the dinner party-which gives it another Magritte type flavour! I was then able to use the dinner party set-up as a platform for my views on the abuse of resources and suchlike.

Getting the dancers to leave the table from time to time was to give them the opportunity to revert to their ‘animal’ self for a few minutes,have a break and come back to the table. Formalized social interaction I find can be quite stressful and when Michael and Lucia go to the ‘swamp’/grass,I feel that they were having a break. Of course Michael making animal noises is bringing it to the extreme but I feel you have to exaggerate enormously in order for the point to carry to the audience. My moment of rest during the film version was lost.This was because this was my first experience of making a film and I wasn’t used to doing scenes out of sequence so forgot to have this 10 second scene filmed!

Of course again it has only just dawned on me talking to you that even there is some extreme type of behaviour at the table(banging the table,screaming) this is as nothing compared to the behaviour of the man who has killed several people. So his actions (even though they don’t appear in the film) made me think about our ‘animal’ nature. The screaming,shouting and getting down from the table on to the grass only seem particularly weird because they are juxtaposed against a very stylized dinner party – where we all know what the rules are. Shouting in the privacy of one’s own home of course would not have the same effect.

You refer to Table Manners/Stopping at Red Lights as a ‘dance video’ which I suppose in some way it is. Only because the term ‘dance video’ conjures up sometimes,for me, mad dancing at a club at 3am in the morning, I prefer the term ‘Screendance film’-without getting very precious about it!

This is the first time that I use text in this film (and in its first appearance as live dance work in a theatre). I have Claudia Diaz to

A still from

Women Cinemakers thank for that as I took a workshop with her several years ago.To be honest I found the week quite challenging.However she did allow us use of a microphone during a session where we had to choreograph titles such as ‘Pollution is bad for the Environment’.

I remember thinking that I would avoid the microphone at all costs (I don’t know why!). But in the end I couldn’t stop talking into it.Prior to this experience I never would have thought about putting text into a work or a film. This avenue has now given me another means of expression which is wonderful.

We have appreciated the way your approach to dance conveys sense of freedom and reflects rigorous approach to : how do you consider the relationship between the necessity of scheduling the details ? of your performative gestures and in your How much importance does play process?

I will start by answering the second part of your question first! In my early days as a choreographer there was absolutely no improvisation at all! I would have drawn up a series of movements and that was that! This I think was down to my own inexperience and lack of confidence.It is only in recent years that I would have a few sketchy ideas and then suggest that we play around with them. I feel that I am a good deal more open now to the whole process -but you might have to check with my dancers to confirm that! I now,more often than not will say ‘I don’t know what we are doing here but let’s try..’Or even ‘I don’t know what we are doing here’. And often my answer to something is ‘I don’t know’. When we were rehearsing Freedomto go! I put on some rock music and said something along the lines of ‘pretend to be a horse’ or something similar. I will accept suggestions and act on them if they are within the remit of what I am looking for. Michael Cooney one of my dancers (and now a very good friend) has been in nearly all of my works. He suggested something to me a while back,I hesitated and then he said ‘Why don’t you just say no?!’ So I said ‘No!’

So regarding ‘scheduling the details of performative gestures and the need for spontaneity’ …First of all you are correct in saying that dance,for me,conveys a sense of freedom. Within that,in a theatre context,each time something is performed it will be ever so minutely different than the time before.With film the version that we have is the final version. Particularly with Table Manners/Stopping at Red Lights the gestures are very definite (sticking out their tongues, widening your lips to apply lipstick,sitting up super straight at the table) and are all part of the dance. If Table Manners/Stopping at Red Lights were a play I would be limited in how people get from Point A to Point B. Using dance as a medium I feel I have more tools at my disposal so people can crawl,jump on the table and so forth.

There was a scene with the two dancers which,because of the sun in their eyes,we had tried to replicate lying down on the grass,as opposed to sitting at the table. But there always had to be a certain tension between them both and this was lost when they were on the ground. They were to look at each other and then look away in a certain pattern. In the end they had to be seated at the table,across from each other, for it to work.

So I think to sum up the improvisation has to be subject to the grammar of body language as does the need for spontaneity. I have to pare down very precisely what I need otherwise the point is lost. Also I feel if too much unrefined gestures and movement are thrown at the audience they can get lost and not pick up on what I am trying to say.Less is more as everyone’s powers of concentration (including my own!) are not endless!

Featuring well orchestrated camera work, has drawn heavily from and we have highly appreciated the way you have created such insightful between environment and dance: how did you select the location and how did it affect the performing and shooting process?

Yes I would agree that the camera work is well orchestrated and this is all down to my Cinematographer Luca Truffarelli. Table Manners/Stopping at Red Lights was as I mentioned earlier a live dance work for theatre. We decided to film it outside as it would cost a lot less! Initially I thought we might film some of it on a beach near where I live or in some type of forest. I discovered a park which is up on a grassy mound,near a river,surrounded by trees,very near where I live.

I first went to view it with Michael Cooney and said that I wasn’t quite sure what I was looking for. In the stage version of the Table Manners, the stage is divided in half with the table on one side and the ‘swamp’/grassy area the other side of a red line.While we were walking through the park we both happened to look down,more or less at the same time, to see a white line running down the middle of the path way (one side of cyclists and the other for pedestrians).

Once I saw it I thought ‘We’ve found the location!’ and abandoned any thoughts of a beach or forest location.

Luca then came with me and we viewed the location several times to know exactly where each scene would be filmed. I also found three painted doors with ivy or suchlike growing around them,further down the grassy mound. This we used as a backdrop for some of the shots with placards.There was also a tunnel like area,with lots of leaves, which we used for Michael when he went for a crawl,away from the table. We placed Lucia in the undergrowth between the river and the pedestrian lane.At the beginning of the film Lucia walks down this white line.

There were also a collection of concrete steps further down the park so we used this location to introduce my character. There was a little bit of graffiti on the wall at the back (am not sure if it can be seen in the film) but I thought that this would add a certain edginess to the scene.Michael is introduced as he drags the dining table up on to the grassy mound. And he and Lucia do a little dance under a cleared area under a few trees,further into the park.

interview

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Women Cinemakers The area where the table was placed-the grassy mound-gave a great panoramic view of the trees which surrounded it. We were lucky on the day of shooting that only one cyclist was caught,in the distance,in one scene. The scenes along the pathway were a bit more problematic as we couldn’t cordon off the whole area and had to stop quite often to let people through.

The outdoor location affected the performing and shooting in that out of a 12 shoot,it rained,sometimes torrentially, for about 8 of them! This has happened on all three of the films Luca and I have made together. In Matera,Italy for Freedom-to go! we used a quarry and we had torrential rain at 3.30pm on the first day of shooting and had to abandon things for that day. In Shoe Horn/Office which we shot in Ireland we had brilliant sunshine the first day and the worst torrential rain I have ever seen on the second day! I think for my next film we will shoot it indoors!

For Table Manners/Stopping at Red Lights we used umbrellas in some cases where they could be held out of sight. I must say that all the cast and crew were wonderful.They all gave 150% and we just ploughed on till we got all the scenes done.We only had one day to do it.As I was a performer and Director of the film,the weather added another layer of stress.This is where very good notes and preparation comes in because,on the set, there is always a deadline and you don’t have the time to think.Referring to your notes is a lifesaver. I had all the scenes listed,with locations, in my file.Luckily the sun came out for the last couple of hours and we were able to film some of the table scenes which did not have the shelter of trees.

In Table Manners/Stopping at Red Lights' Michael is standing on the dining table and does a 'Little Dancer aged 14 years' (Degas) imitation as he moves around in a circle. The outdoor location gives this scene another surrealist feel.But also he is breaking convention by using the work of a well-known artist, in an unorthodox situation.To view this sculpture,indoors, in a museum (as I did in the Royal Academy in London) was/is the height of convention!.

Featuring gorgeous cinematography and keen eye to details, each shot of is carefully orchestrated to work within the overall structure, balancing realism to when shooting? In expressionism: what were your particular, what was your choice about camera and lens?

My main criteria in transforming a stage version of Table Manners into a film was that the essence of the work was kept. I had difficulty in the beginning as it was tempting to put everything in as it was in the live work.This of course was not possible. This is where Luca and I work very well together. He understood what was important to me. For example, the eye needed to be drawn to the white line,to the setting of the table,to the performers going off into the ‘swamp’.

In the stage version I sit at the edge of the table and ask,three times,in Spanish ‘Donde esta el equipaje?’ In the film version the sentence is said but as a voice over,introducing Lucia walking along the white line and Michael dragging the table up on to the grassy mound.It is such an important line and couldn’t be lost. The sentence itself means ‘Where is the baggage?’ and doesn’t mean anything really in this context.But it does mean something in a surrealist sense and for this reason is super important.

Lucia’s gesture of putting her fingers of one hand into her mouth and forcing her lips to smile is again crucial to the ‘narrative’. Every one in public puts on his public mask but it is,more often than not, done seamlessly.One can’t be seen to force oneself to ‘enjoy’ the proceedings.

These are the wheels of social intercourse and of course we probably couldn’t exist as a society without them. I am merely drawing attention to it and dissecting it at the same time. So this gesture is of paramount importance and had to be included in the film.

Also all of the mini speeches from the stage version had to be kept in the film.From the accents to the content of them,they are all a little off the wall.But again this is the whole point! I am pushing the boundaries of what is acceptable to say at a dinner party in someone’s house and also giving myself a platform for my views on the abuse of resources,pollution etc.

interview

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Women Cinemakers Someone once said to me ‘Why all the accents?’ The accents are there because I felt that the message would carry more than if I merely stated,at the table that,for example, ‘Pollution is bad’. Then it would sound more like a polemic or political speech and the audience would just switch off!

The ‘lizard tongues’ section is important too. Obviously sticking out one’s tongue in social situations (or anywhere!) is considered very bad manners. But I specifically wanted a ‘lizard type tongue’ movement to tie in with the performers’ animal side. So again this section had to be included.

We have really appreciated the way your approach to moving images challenges the viewers' perceptual categories to create : what are you hoping will trigger in the spectatorship? In particular, how much important is for you to address the viewer's imagination in order to elaborate ?

My aim as an artist is to present the audience with a work and hope that they will engage with it in some way. Now once I have completed the work be it a film or a live dance work it is out of my control.However,in an ideal world,I hope that they might think about what is being presented to them.For example,in Table Manners/Stopping at Red Lights I make references to a fictional drug called Allaxin claiming all sorts of benefits from taking it. I also mention a long list of its side effects. When I was in the States I was bombarded with adverts for drugs on TV.Also when travelling from Zurich to Basle several years ago,by train, I was struck by how many adverts there were concerning drugs for stomach ailments and also ads for insurance -of all types!

So in the film I present this to the audience with the hope that they might think about it for a few seconds at least. I threw in the line about insurance in the film because I thought it was funny! But you could reach a point where you won’t leave your house without insurance-protection for every conceivable happening!

If I can trigger the viewer’s imagination then that is wonderful! In the same way when I read a novel,if I am really engrossed in it, I have to engage my imagination for the transaction to work. As I say when a film is finished I have

no control over it.No control over how the viewer reacts nor how he/she engages with it.

The dinner party is perhaps something most people can relate to. So yes the viewer might have some personal associations when presented with this in the film. The one thing that would tell me that a film has failed is that if the viewer was bored by it. People might like/might not like a film of mine which is fair enough.But if they are bored by it then I would have failed and my message will not get a chance to be transported to the audience.

In addition,if a viewer takes something from a film that I had not thought about then that is absolutely fine. Sometimes one is not totally sure of what is in the work.I discovered this after a private showing of Bow-Tie like ‘Chioni when an audience member said to me about the family unit in the work. It sounds mad to say this as there was a man,a woman and a younger woman in it but up to that point I had not realized that. Another audience member -a guy in his thirties-said to me after a showing of Freedom-to go! at AIFVF in Ohio ‘How come you know us so well and you don’t live here?’(the film is a commentary on present day America).Also someone in Brooklyn,after a screening of the same film said to me ‘I get your message’. It is wonderful to get some sort of reaction after a screening of my film. And it is wonderful if people take the trouble to talk to you about the film afterwards.This happened with Table Manners/Stopping at Red Lights at the American Dance Festival’s Screendance Festival in 2015 when there was an informal discussion about it afterwards. If people ask you questions about the film it means that they have engaged with it at some level.

Another interesting work that we would like to introduce to our readers is entitled this interesting work has drawn heavily from and we have highly appreciated the way you have created such insightful between space and movement: how did you select the location and how did it affect your shooting process?

interview

Women Cinemakers

Women Cinemakers

Women Cinemakers

interview

Women Cinemakers

My film Shoe Horn/Office is an Experimental/Screendance film like my previous two films. It deals with sexism and the restrictive nature of women’s clothing and shoes throughout the ages.

Again,for reasons of finance,this film had to be shot outdoors.I had in mind a walled garden so spent several months searching for a walled garden.I did find one in Co Wicklow (which is also called the Garden of Ireland) but it was going to cost in excess of 10,000 euro for two days filming! So I had to find another location.In the end I found it in St Anne’s Park in Dublin. It is owned by Dublin County Council and when I was turned down for funding for the film, they very kindly let me film there free of charge. Luca and I,then Luca on his own, visited the location as usual to make notes and identify the best locations.

I found lots of ideal locations within this beautiful park. I looked at about 50 trees before I found the one suitable to place myself,my other dancer Millie Daniel-Dempsey and a mannequin on three branches. As we were all dressed in Victorian style dresses,with corsets on the outside, I needed to have a feeling of constriction.Also we say ‘We are three/Stuck in a tree/…’ so I had to transmit that compacted feeling.

I found a beautiful rose garden there too and it served very well as the opening sequence where myself and Millie,dressed in casual clothes,are walking our duck in the park.We had brilliant sunshine for that day so it all gelled together very well.

There was also another area -flat,surrounded by what once were stables. The walls are red and it provided a brilliant backdrop for our outdoor office scene.It was also very flat which meant that the office chair could glide easily on it. We also filmed our bank tellers scene there.

There were two small stumps of trees which Michael Cooney and Don Rongavilla sat on near the opening of the film. We were thus able to introduce our two main male characters.

But I only discovered the most wonderful Chinese Garden and house after several visits there. It served us very well on Day 2 of the shoot as it was raining in a torrential fashion,but we could continue filming as we had shelter from the house.This scene deals with Chinese footbinding so with my dancer costumed in a Chinese dress,and her feet bound, we had the ideal back drop for her to shuffle from one side of the entrance to the other.

The grassy mound (again!) features in one of our two endings.From the grassy mound there is such a panoramic view,as far as the eye can see, to the gated entrance at the other end of the park. My dancer is in sky high stiletto shoes and makes her way down the grassy mound on to the path. We had torrential rain when this was being filmed but we had no option but to carry on.It was the last day of filming and I had to get it finished.I only dropped one scene in the end,in order to save time. Again all the cast and crew were amazing! No one complained and we carried on till the end.I am very grateful to them for that because when you have been working on a film for a year or two,and had seven intense weeks alone on it and nine days of rehearsal there is a good deal riding on it.

We have appreciated the way your approach invites the viewers to rethink about their cultural parameteres: to emphasize the need of establishing between the work of art and the spectatorship, Swiss visual artist Pipilotti Rist once remarked that " Do you think that this statement reflects the directin of your artistic trajectory?

Moreover, do you think that has changed these days with created by new media?

To be honest this is not something that I have thought about. But dwelling on Rist’s sentence now I do agree somewhat with it.

I feel that our role as artists is to present something to the viewer that he/she can engage with,if possible,on all levels:spiritually (in the broadest sense),mentally, physically and aurally.Now I realize that this

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Women Cinemakers

Women Cinemakers

Women Cinemakers

Women Cinemakers is a big ask! Perhaps another way of paraphrasing this is ‘just’ to connect with the soul of the viewer and the rest might follow. In Table Manners/Stopping at Red Lights I hope that the aural soundscape of the natural surroundings (composed by Michael Gallen),the text and unexpected movements of the body will attract,and hold, the attention of the viewer.

I am not too sure what my exact artistic trajectory is. All I know is that I am learning all the time,from film to film,and in between too. I am not too sure what I am learning but,in some way or another,it will present itself in each work that I make.

I was once performing in Steve Paxton’s works ‘State’ and ‘Satisfyin’ Lover’ at MoMA PS1 in Long Island. Marina Abramovic was also presenting work that day and I went to see it after our piece was finished. She had a special method of getting total involvement from the viewer with her work.She insisted that we look into the eyes of our fellow viewer for 5 mins (we had just performed ‘State’ which involved standing still for 10 mins so I found this extremely challenging!).We were then more than ready to receive her art and were totally focused on it.

The atmosphere now created by new media is that everything is so fast.Everyone’s attention span is measured in nanoseconds.This is a difficult situation for artists.I suppose that the new media is competing for people’s attention and our role is perhaps to try and get people to slow down enough to engage with our work. The problem is that if you mimic the new media too much-in an effort to grab people’s attention- you may get their attention but not for very long. When I made Table Manners/Stopping at Red Lights I would think from time to time ‘Is this too slow for the MTV generation?!’ Even that phrase is now outdated but my children used to watch MTV at one point and I remember thinking that everything was so,so fast! But in the end,you cannot as an artist pander to the public.In my case I feel I have something to say and I will say it as best I can in whatever medium suits me and my message best,at a given time. And in

addition,you can only be yourself whatever the current trends or fashions.

As you have remarked once, you never set out intentionally to be a choreographer, filmmaker, script writer, performer: what did address your artistic research to such kaleidoscopic quality? Moreover, how do you select a medium in order to explore a particular theme?

Yes you are right! I became a choreographer completely by chance whilst looking for some music to use in my Adult Ballet class.I heard the Concert Waltz by Gounod and just,out of the blue,started choreographing a work to it.I can best describe it as being in some sort of trance.I had never experienced anything like it before! This piece eventually was my first work Swirling Leaves which went nowhere and is still sitting on my shelf! I thought it was a masterpiece but it actually wasn’t very good! As I mentioned before Anica Louw my ballet colleague had a look at it and was encouraging.I am immensely grateful to her for this. So choreography was my route then to express myself and I started in around 2003 making a few works for my company -which I then had to invent and get a name for it!(Night Star Dance Company) When I stopped teaching ballet to adults in about 2010 I set out to explore other dance forms -hip hop etc.I then discovered that I loved performing.This was a revelation to me! I had gone to a few workshops given by a Dutch choreographer.I could only attend a few as I was teaching.However I went to see the performance in the studio at the end of the week. I remember thinking ‘But I could have done that!’ I then made a solo work (Who Am I?) and performed it in New York at DTW in Feb 2011. This was a completely new direction for me. I so enjoyed it! There was a Q and A after the performance and one young woman said to me ‘I get what you are saying!’ This for me was enormous validation.

One comment was enough! The work was about marriage,motherhood,empty nest etc. Michael Cooney,my

dancer,had been trying,over the years,to get me to perform in my own work. His attempts fell on deaf ears! But now I was open to appearing in my own work. I have performed in my last three films.

Filmmaking I fell into accidentally.It was my stage manager Mags Corscadden who was working with me for our triple bill in Project Arts Centre in Dublin 2013. That December she said to me that the works should be made into films. I acted on her advice the following month and in March 2014 I met Luca Truffarelli and in June 2014 we made our first film Table Manners/Stopping at Red Lights.

For now I think that film is my favoured medium.I think it suits my work best and it forces me to be very concise and to the point. There is no leeway to wander all over the place. I find the medium very exciting as I am very new to it. And I enjoy my collaboration with Luca Truffarelli my Cinematographer.

Since I also love performing I try to get to BIDE in Barcelona where dance artists work together for a week and then put on a public performance in Barcelona. I benefited so much especially from my first visit to BIDE. They saved my artistic life at the time as I was in dire need of some sort of encouragement to keep going. This they provided and I will be forever grateful to them for this (Sebastian Garcia Ferro,Fabritia D’Intino).

It's no doubt that collaborations as the one that you have established with Luca Cinematographer Luca Truffarelli are today ever growing forces in Contemporary Art and that the most exciting things happen when creative minds from different fields of practice meet and collaborate on a project: could you tell us something about this proficient ? Can you explain how your work demonstrates communication between artists ?

Yes you are right.My artistic collaboration with Luca Truffarelli is very exciting! To be honest,if you had asked me years ago would I like to collaborate with another choreographer,I would have said definitely no! This was because I could not see the partnership working.

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Women Cinemakers

Women Cinemakers

Women Cinemakers However,after an initial meeting over a cup of tea (I was a little apprehensive as I am sure he was too) I discovered that we seemed to be very much on the same wavelength. I was a little worried about making Table Manners into a film.I was excited but concerned that the essence of it might be lost.There was no need to worry as on the first day on location Luca said to me to keep looking through the lens. He knew what I wanted from each scene and I trusted him with it.

second.It was one of the quickest decisions I have ever made!

Luca went out a week ahead of us that June 2015,had problems with one quarry but quickly sourced another one before I and the rest of the cast arrived.It was truly wonderful! It was like a Hollywood film set in that there were several locations in the one spot: bundle of rocks with an upended tree sticking out of it; a fig tree; a few concrete steps and lots of grassy areas.So in fact it had elements of a quarry and it worked out amazingly well for us.

We work exceptionally well together. After we have bounced a few ideas off each other,we will invariably come up with something more than the some of its parts. For example,in Table Manners in the stage version the table is already set on the stage.The problem in the film was how should we introduce it?

So Luca had the idea of Michael dragging it up the grassy mound.In this way the viewer is introduced to Michael.

In the last film the music that I had first chosen was going to cost too much money to use.Also when I played it for Luca he said that it wouldn’t work for the film.So he helped me try to find some other music to replace the original choice. In the end I did find something suitable both for me and him. Luca is such a hard worker and a perfectionist,but a perfectionist who gets things done,on time.

In the post rape scene in Shoe Horn/Office I was thinking of placing Don standing over Millie on the ground and then running along by the river. With a slight nudge, Luca suggested Don running around her in a circle so we get to see the connection between them the whole time.This worked really well.

He mostly edits the films but will always check with me for my opinion. There was one sequence in Freedom-to go! that I liked,but he did not like it. It was a scene that I was in but I trusted his judgement so we left it out.He was right in the end!

When you are directing a film and performing in it as well, it is not always easy to maintain some sort of distance with regard to it.So it is much better to have two pairs of eyes working on it.Luca is always unfailingly gracious and an absolute pleasure to work with!

In the same film,in the Chinese house everything,including Millie’s clothing is very constricted.I suggested filming through two narrow slits of windows.Luca just turned it back and filmed Millie moving in a very tight space,on a very small ledge,at the opposite end to the windows.

Of course Luca is in charge of all the technical elements in the three films.But he will ask me my opinion regarding what I want to emphasize in a scene. And for the last film he discussed types of cameras with me.As he is the expert in this regard, I generally leave that to him.

When Luca and I were discussing a possible location for Freedom-to go! I suggested a quarry. He took out his phone and said there were two possibilities:Carrara in Tuscany or Matera in Southern Italy.The first required a licence so we opted for the

Over the years you received a great response from festival circuits and you won an Award of Recognition at the Accolade Global Film Competition in La Jolla, California: how that you receive much importance has for you in the festival circuit? And how do you feel a work of art before an audience?

That Award from California was the very first award that we received for Table Manners/Stopping at Red Lights. It was particularly gratifying as this was the first time ever for us to receive an award. So it will always be the special one!

Women Cinemakers Light Moves Screendance Festival in Limerick was the first festival to accept our work. It was very exciting to see Table Manners on the big screen.

It all was doubly exciting as I was used to having my work turned down and found it very difficult to get it on anywhere -apart from financing it yourself.

If my film is screened at a festival then that,for me,is the first feedback. If I happen to attend the festival and meet members of the audience who engage with me, this is the second feedback.If we win an award,this is the third feedback!

We have been very lucky in that all three films have had international screenings and won international awards. The main thing for me is that the film gets viewed and doesn’t end up on the shelf,to use old-school speak! I know how difficult it is to keep going on with your work if no one sees it.

I get very nervous before a film of mine is screened.It is ridiculous really as the film is already made! Unlike a live performance where a myriad of things can go wrong,a film screening should be more straightforward. Of course things can go wrong on a technical level and I suppose I worry about that too!

Thanks a lot for your time and for sharing your thoughts, Ingrid. Finally, would you like to tell us readers something about your future projects? Are you working on another film at the moment?

Yes I am actually working on another film at the moment!

I started it last September in London. It is about cosmetic surgery.

I have very strong feelings on the subject!

It too will be a Screendance/Experimental film.I have done quite a few scenes already. Some I know will not survive -but some others will! I used to get very het up back in the day about jotting everything down precisely.Now I put down whatever comes into my head and don’t sweat about it.It will either work or it won’t!

This time too there will be lots of text and some styles of dance.I don’t want to reveal the title of the film as I don’t want to jinx it!

Also I feel that my reward will be to reveal the title when the film is finished.It will probably take about another two years to finish it as I don’t work madly on it every day of the week.

I also have an agent in London so I may be doing lots of different things in the near future!

I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to talk about my films. I appreciate it very much.

I did mention Laurie Uprichard and Ester O’Brolchain in an earlier message to you but am condensing it this time!

I would like to thank Laurie Uprichard who used to be the Director of the Dublin Dance Festival.She chose my work Watch…Es for the Festival in 2009.It was about the pressures that 21st century men are under.

Laurie was never too busy to come and see your work.She once came straight from the airport to a studio showing of mine (Full…of Prayer -about clerical child abuse).

I also asked for her advice as to what direction I should take regarding my work.She recommended that I go to Movement Research in New York which I did several times.I took worshops there including an amazing week with Ishmael Houston Jones.

She has been continually helpful telling me about Dance on Camera in New York when I started to move into films. I never knew that the screendance circuit existed!Laurie now works as the Senior Curator of Performing Arts(at The Contemporary Arts Centre) in New Orleans.

Also I would like to mention my good friend and former ballet teacher Ester O’Brolchain.She looked at my third work Bow-Tie like ‘Chioni and said that it should be on the stage.As a result she gave me the courage to approach the then Director of Project Arts Centre (Willie White) and he very kindly gave me the theatre for a private viewing.

Women Cinemakers meets

Sylvia Schwenk Lives and works in Berlin, Germany

I am a multi-disciplinary artist who creates new perspectives of the everyday and the familiar by looking at the relationship between performance and regular behaviour, reflecting upon the significance and beauty of commonplace activities and spaces.

One of the biggest challenges of our times is isolation, fear and lack of connection with others. I break down barriers by bringing people together to share new experiences and encourage everyday people to become performers that actively participate in the creative process of making new works of art.

Themes of community and communication run through my practice, which unites art with social considerations. I work closely with communities in projects that explore local issues, creating works of art that are both context-responsive and universal in their presentation.

Sometimes I capture a moment, space or action with photographs, films, text and/or installations. Other times I create works that focus on inter-human relational practices that emphasise collaboration, dialogue and audience activation. For the last 10 years I have created more than 30 works of international socially engaged projects with thousands of people, in everyday situations and spaces as diverse as public places, prisons, naval bases, football grand finals, public transport, model airplane fields and art institutions. There is often an overlap between the two arms of my practice and I create films and other works of art to re-present my community-oriented public art projects to new audiences.

An interview by Francis L. Quettier and Dora S. Tennant womencinemaker@berlin.com Hello Sylvia and welcome to : we would like to introduce you to our readers with a couple of questions regarding your background. You have a solid formal training and after your studies at the

Universität der Künste Berlin, you earned your Bachelor of Visual Arts (Hons I), from Sydney College of the Arts: you later attended the Köln International School of Design and you eventually nurtured your education with a Ph.D., that you received from the Sydney College of the Arts, University of Sydney: how did these experiences influence your evolution as an artist? Moreover, does your direct your artistic research?

Education, formal training, research and artist residencies provide me with platforms from which I develop my artistic practice. I studied in the painting studio at the Sydney College of Arts in Australia, and for the early part of my studies and career I painted abstract works. Necessity is the source of invention, and it was while I was an exchange student at UdK in Berlin, during the final year of my Bachelors degree that my practice first evolved. As a painter in Australia, I worked with a lot of color and I preferred using acrylic paints that I bought in small pots (250g) from hardware stores. This was not possible in Berlin in 2006 - I was only able to buy 1 litre pots of paint, which was too much paint and too much money - so I was forced to rethink how to create.

I started experimenting and my practice changed considerably. I began to direct people performing in public spaces. People became my paint and the city became my canvas. I also began to photograph and film people performing in these works, and in their everyday lives.

I became interested in the body and the way that people perform in their everyday. This became the theme for my artistic practice and my PhD. I continue to experiment and research, always looking to expand.

You have to take risks to push your boundaries and create new works.

Through my research and my art I understand that performance is at the heart of all activity, and because people constantly perform in their daily lives this makes it easier for everyday people to perform in works of performance art and in films. I also see that socially engaged works of performance art can break down barriers, and build community.

And yes, of course my cultural background affects my art. I was born in Germany to German parents and immigrated to Australia with my parents and brothers when I was a child. I was fortunate to grow up as a person of 2 cultures, and as an artist I have travelled to many parts of the world. I have experienced many different cultures with lengthy stays in Ethiopia, Djibouti and Morocco in Africa; Syria-before-the-war in the Middle East; Nepal, Vietnam and Borneo in Asia; Chile and Bolivia in

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Women Cinemakers

Women Cinemakers

still image from film 'tears of joy-emoji art', 2018

Women Cinemakers

still image from film 'tears of joy-emoji art', 2018

interview

Women Cinemakers South America; Germany and Spain in Europe, and New York City in the US. These experiences inform my cultural background and of course influence my work. I have become more open. I have also become a much better listener.

The world is an amazing place. For me it is the everyday that is interesting that is where life takes place and this is where I want to make art.

You are a versatile artist and your pratice is marked out with such stimulating feature, that allows you to range photographs, films, text and/or installations, and especially on interhuman relational practices: before starting to elaborate about your artistic production, we would invite to our readers to visit in order to get a synoptic idea about your artistic production: would you tell us what does address you to such captivating approach? How do you select a medium in order to explore a particular theme?

I think the job of an artist is to comment on the world and to draw attention to particular issues. My ideas come from the everyday, usually as I watch, read, listen and observe the world around me. Something catches my attention and I develop an idea around this concept. The medium(s) reveal themselves as I start creating and I just work with the medium(s) that best reflect the idea or theme of my project.

I create new perspectives of the everyday and the familiar by looking at the relationship between performance and regular behaviour, reflecting upon the significance and beauty of commonplace activities and spaces.

Sometimes I capture a moment, space or action with photographs, films, text, drawings and/or installations. For example, I recently wrote a funny but sad grown-ups picture book, called ‘absurdity’ to share my experiences of the public service. The book is a collection of stories, drawings and observations that can be read from start to finish, or they can be read as single stories as you jump around the book. Each story has a drawing that is generally made using textas, which are typically used by children. Textas just seemed the best

Rehearsal 'schoppingen emoji'

Detail 'tears of joy emoji art'

medium to depict these absurd stories and using this medium enhanced my mindset. It made me think and draw more freely During the last few years I have also created a number of films to capture someone’s everyday life or activities for others to see. ‘Waterways’, a visual documentary that

transports us into the lives of a riverside community in Indonesia, is an example of this. The film shows a slice of everyday life, starting with a group of children playing in the wash of the boat; and a tangle of boats that ultimately leads us to the main protagonist of the film, an older woman who shares her point of view with us. This woman absorbs the details of life around her from the edge of a

Detail 'tears of joy emoji art'

timber mill, as she completes her morning rituals. She takes

have created more than 30 works of socially engaged

us into her world, a textured and fascinating place that we

projects internationally, with over 2,000 people, in everyday

are invited to experience.

situations and spaces as diverse as public places, prisons,

Other times I create works that focus on inter-human

naval bases, football grand finals, public transport, model

relational practices, which emphasise collaboration,

airplane fields and art institutions.

dialogue and audience activation. For the last 10 years I

Often I create films and other works of art to re-present my

Rehearsal 'schoppingen emoji'

community-oriented public art projects to new audiences. The ‘library of emoji art’ is an example of this type of work.

For this special edition of we have selected , an extremely interesting ongoing project that our readers have already started to get to know in the introductory pages of this article and that can be viewed at . What has at once captured our attention of your insightful inquiry into emoji in communication in our media driven age, is the way you have provided the results of your artistic research with such . While walking our readers through the genesis of , would you tell us how did you develop the initial idea?

I wanted to comment on how we relate to one another in the digital age, on how technology isolates us even more whilst all the time promising to bring us together. Technology connects us, but at a distance. Conversation has become too time consuming and too personal, so we text instead of phoning. Emoji replace gestures and words to help us connect with each other in digital conversations while simultaneously isolating us in the analog world.

In recognising this duality and the significance of emoji, I came up with the idea to create ‘emoji art’ as a community-oriented public art project that would paradoxically bring hundreds of people together from the local community, to connect and communicate with each other in the physical world to create a large-scale emoji made from their bodies Around this time, I was invited to create a work for the project ‘Stadtbesetzung’, 2017 (‘City occupation’) by the Künstlerdorf Schöppingen during an artist residency, for the Kultursekretariat NRW Gütersloh, Germany.

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Women Cinemakers

'emoji art', 2018

Women Cinemakers

'emoji art - tears of joy', artist impression, 2018

Women Cinemakers I decided to create a pilot ‘emoji art’ work: ‘schöppingen emoji’ (with no budget, that was filmed and photographed).

To connect individual projects with the broader community of the world, I paired the community’s emoji with a performance of the most loved emoji of the year – ‘tears of joy: emoji art’. ‘schöppingen emoji’ involved over 200 people from all areas of the community (aged care homes, schools, fire brigade, police, church groups, businesses, sports groups, and music groups) who created universal, fun and eyecatching activated emojis, using their bodies - standing, sitting, kneeling or lying on the ground. The emoji for this work of art was designed by the community via workshops to reflect the community’s identity. The project celebrates the character and history of Schöppingen, and the performances live on as oral stories and artworks, including digital emojis and GIFs of the performances for everyday communication.

Following the success of the ‘schöppingen emoji’, I decided to work with cities and local communities around the world to create the ‘library of emoji art’. The ‘library’ is a work in progress showcasing ‘emoji art’ created by different communities at different times and in response to different themes, under my direction. Each ‘emoji art’ will be designed by the community and will be presented in a sitespecific location within that community/city. As emoji are digital icons that help counter isolation and facilitate connection, each work of ‘emoji art’ will be presented with an ‘emoji of the year artwork’. This will be like a time capsule, linking each community with the greater world.

Each volume of ‘emoji art’ will be made up of various works of art that represent and promote each city’s/community’s ‘emoji art’, including books of the drawings from workshops,

archival material (radio programs and contributions), photographs, films and GIFs of the ‘emoji art’ performances. ‘emoji art’ performances in the physical world, like emoji in the digital world, connect people, enhancing communication across cultural and language barriers. The processes involved in creating this project provides a sense of connection and a sharing across the community Mexican artist Gabriel Orozco once remarked that "

": as an artist particularly interested in , how do you consider the role of artist in our unstable and globalised contemporary age? In particular, does your artistic research respond to ? In particular, does your artistic research respond to a particular cultural moment?

My role as an artist is to question and to create art that comments on our society, with a view to affecting small changes in people through emotion, action or thought.

One of the biggest challenges of our times is isolation, fear and lack of connection with others. We live in a time of reduced global interconnectivity, with ‘Brexit’, the USA’s ‘American first policy’, an uprising of populist alt-far-right governments and movements in Europe, and toxic social media. There is an increasing fear of otherness that is leading a wave of self-focus, alienation, nationalism and violence. In these times the need for people to connect with one another is more relevant and greater than ever before.

Connection is a fundamental process of being human. It’s a real and tangible force that’s vital to our wellbeing and is

Women Cinemakers necessary for a better world. I have been working on projects based on this theme since the November 2015 Paris terrorist attack.

My art seeks to counter patterns of inward thinking and behaviour through communication and community building.

You can see this in my project the ‘library of emoji art’, a work which brings together people who are more than often strangers or acquaintances. The work unites them in creating performances of ‘emoji art’ that represents their city/community’s identity. Ordinary, everyday people bonded simply by participation.

It’s wonderful to see the change in people after just a single performance. I empower, direct and guide the community who participate. And this is where the connection really happens. They use their bodies to realise the art and connect with one another. It’s quite beautiful to watch barriers being broken and to see the transformation of a group of individuals into a unified group of performers. This usually happens about three-quarters of the way through the rehearsal. It’s almost as though someone turns on a switch, a moment where everyone suddenly ‘gets it’. Holding the rehearsal immediately before the performance intensifies the experience and work. The performers have to work together quickly. They don’t have time to think about who they’re working with and they bypass rules of social conduct - of making small talk and working out where people fit in relation to one another. They’re focussed and want to present the work in the best possible way. Importantly, they take pride in creating and being a part of something bigger than themselves.

The performers make friends and build relationships that live on long after the performance ends. They connect. Being part of my art projects enriches the lives of those who participate.

To be an active part of a creative performance gives people great pride and a sense of achievement. It lifts them out of their everyday and opens them up to a world of possibilities.

Art can do that. It only takes a little spark to start a fire.

We have appreciated the way highlights the point of convergence between physical world and the digital realm. Technology can be used to create innovative works, but innovation means not only to create works that haven't been before, but especially to recontextualize what already exists: do you think that the role of the artist has changed these days with the new global communications and the new sensibility created by new media?

No, I think the role of the artist and the purpose of art hasn’t changed since we started drawing on cave walls. Of course, the way art is presented and the way we consume art has changed, and this will continue to change as society and technology change. But the essence of what art is and how it affects people stays the same. could be We dare say that considered an report of the need of providing the complexity of our society with a human aspect.

French anthropologist and sociologist Marc Augè once suggested the idea that modern age creates two separate poles: nature science and culture society: how is in your opinion online technopshere affecting

The words ‘community’ and ‘communicate’ both originate from the Latin word ‘communis’, which means common, prevalence of occurrence and ordinariness or everydayness. It is not a coincidence that these three words are born of the one idea, for people must share community and

connect I, 2018

communication. Communication is one of the fundamental processes of human activity and the way we communicate shapes our relationships with others and thereby the community.

The technosphere is an inherent part of our daily lives. It affects every aspect, shaping our communication, our culture, our behaviour and our thoughts. Our social interaction is increasingly selective and selfdirected, and because we can remove our locational limitations and socialise in virtual space, our sense of local community is narrower. As French cultural theorist Paul Virilio says: ‘Before we were together in the same place and could claim an identity. Today, we are together elsewhere.’ The effect on local community is considerable, and Virilio suggests that in the era of information monotheism and communications technology, the ‘greatest danger of all is the prospect of a slide into a future without humanity’.

This has prompted artists to create real physical social contact by creating works of art that focus on inter-human relational practices and emphasise collaboration, dialogue and audience activation. These works can act as circuit breakers to the new ‘standard’ of self-directed interaction and communication.

This is one of the reasons I wanted to make the ‘library of emoji art’.

The project will see community-based works across the world about a digital phenomenon that will be anchored in the physical world, using the bodies and minds of local community.

The ‘library of emoji art’ moves people into a new space, away from technology and into the world of the performance and connection.

This work causes a displacement of routine and the way that emoji are used. Through this disjunction people become more aware of the environment in which they routinely engage, seeing it and their local community in a different perspective. When you draw attention to something, there is a fracturing or shattering of the moment that existed immediately before. It is almost akin to breaking a spell and

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Women Cinemakers

Women Cinemakers

Water ways I, 2015

Women Cinemakers

A shared space unprocessed, 2012

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Women Cinemakers revealing something previously unseen. The performers connect at an elementary level and create relationships in the physical world.

And in completing the technosphere circuit, each work of physical ‘emoji art’ will be re-presented as digital emojis, that together with the GIFs of these performances will be used in everyday digital communication that simultaneously connects and isolates us.

As you have remarked once, your practice looks at : in this sense, your approach the notion of inviting the viewers to : how do you consider the role of for your artistic research? In particular, how do the details that you capture during daily life fuel your creative process?

This is a very difficult question to answer. I don’t really think about how my creative process is fueled, other than knowing I am inspired or motivated by the everyday. I feel that as an artist I am meant to comment on the world, and in order to do that I need to experience and be a part of the world.

I try not to overthink things. If I was to do that, I think I would stop myself from doing things.

I simply work with my thoughts, images, words, actions or other stimuli I see, hear or feel. The ideas form in my mind and I start researching or start creating. When I first get an idea I, sometimes respond or react to the idea immediately. Other times I write down or document the idea with a photograph, a drawing or an article, together with my inspiration for the idea and preliminary thoughts. I have a folder called ‘art ideas’ and every now an then I look in the folder. Sometimes the ideas get used.

It’s only once I start working on the idea or concept that it starts to reveal itself. It’s like thinking. We think differently about subjects or things when we write about them; speak about them with other people; or think about them quietly in our heads. I need to have a mixture of all three approaches. And I guess I do this with my concepts.

Your practice is often centered on themes of community and communication and it's no doubt that the most exciting things happen when creative minds from different fields meet and collaborate on a project: could you tell us something about the collaborative nature of your performances and sitespecific events? Can you explain how your work demonstrates ?

Themes of community and communication permeate the essence of my practice. My works are often site-specific and utilise space as a place of dialogue and negotiation. One of the outcomes of my socially engaged works is what I call ‘performosis’ a process where everyday people become performers in the work and spectators and passers-by performing their everyday activities become active parts in the performance. My works bring people back together in creative ways that are fun and challenging. These works builds relationships and strengthen communities.

As with everything, there is a structure of social relationships between artist, audience and setting. My work emphasises the consensual nature of the relationships whilst retaining authorship and control of the work. I empower individuals and communities to create works of art that are inclusive and nurturing. My works unite strangers and celebrate peoples’ differences and similarities by using an approach that is very organic and interactive. I have a plan, a proposal, costumes and a choreography that I direct, but within that framework I allow the work to unfold freely.

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Women Cinemakers ‘emoji art’ for example, is beautiful in its simplicity and in its performance. The performers pass through a portal, transforming from individual everyday people, into eyes, eyebrows, tears, town hall, background and laughing mouth of emojis - one of which they designed to reflect their own collective identity. Their presentation is defined by who they are, and they add their own uniqueness and approach.

After the performance, when I re-present the performance as films, I work with a wonderful team of creatives. We have worked together on a number of my projects and there is an understanding of my aesthetic and artistic objectives. I trust and respect these talented creatives. We have an open creative process, where we talk about the ideas behind the work, and then after the first draft of the music, sound and edit we review the work, discuss what has been achieved and what still has to happen. This process repeats itself until the work is completed. Sometimes this works in reverse, wherein I create a performance in response to a song or music that the musical creative I work with has written.

Over the years your artworks have been showcased in a number of occasions and you are going to have the solo , at , Stiftung Künstlerdorf, Schöppingen, Germany and Artereal Gallery in Sydney, Australia this year: one of the hallmarks of your work is the capability to create with the viewers, who are provided with of the the opportunity to become active participants and are urged to evolve from a condition of mere spectatorship. So we would like to ask you a question about the nature of the relationship of your art with your audience: in particular, we are wondering if the aim to create an event for a spectator is the reason why you perform or is if it's a channel through which you transmit your ideas: do you consider the issue of audience reception as

being a crucial component of your decision-making process, in terms of what type of language is used in a particular context?

Other than performing as myself in my everyday life, I don’t perform. I work with other people and direct their performance – be it in socially engaged works of performance art, or filming people going about their everyday activities.

Audience reception is always an integral component of the art project and I start considering this early on in the creative process. I transmit my ideas through performances and then through the representation of these performances as artworks.

My works of socially engaged performance art are an experience where every step of my process is open to audience participation and interaction. Often these works transform the audience into participants, especially when this work is performed in shared public spaces. The ‘schöppingen emoji’ involved almost 2% of the population as performers. For this work the performers were the audience and the audience were the performers. My engagement of audiences is a method of completion and evolution because my works of performance art cannot exist without performers/audience, nor can they grow. In this regard I share the approach of a number of contemporary artists concerned with exploring their practice via subject and performance, like Belgian artist Francis Alÿs, and Spanish artist Santiago Sierra.

My practice is concerned with process just as much as outcomes. My art works exist as a plan, then as a performance, then as artworks and finally as screenings at film festivals and as exhibitions in art galleries, which often involves performers and audience intermingling and reconnecting with each other.

Editing of the performance footage is crucial to the creative process and final resolution of the artworks. For example, the key works of art in the first volume in the ‘library of emoji art’ – the ‘schöppingen

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Women Cinemakers emoji‘ and ‘tears of joy: emoji art’, are GIFs of each of these performances. During the editing process, I decided to dramatically speed up the performance, which was over an hour. The finished GIFs are 19 seconds and 29 seconds respectively and are enhanced by color saturation. These films portray the concept of ‘emoji art’ perfectly – they’re fun and engaging. And these GIFs allow the community and city to use emojis they created with their own bodies in their subsequent digital conversations.

Another example is, ‘A shared space’ – a visual documentary I made about what happens before and after a funeral service. Talking about death in our culture is somehow uncomfortable. I wanted to break down some of this fear or discomfort by making a film about the burial process, which looks so beautiful – it’s gentle and almost choreographed – as a way to ease the way people look at death. I approached a graveyard and met with the director and gravediggers who welcomed the idea of showing their everyday to other people. While I was filming, the gravediggers came across another body that was buried in the plot they were preparing. The paperwork showed that someone had been buried in the plot but was exhumed when the lease expired.

This, however, proved not to be the case and the earlier body was still there. During the editing process I had to decide which story I wanted to tell – the intended work, or the work that shows the burial process with the extra body. I decided to tell the latter. Hence the title, ‘A shared space’.

We have really appreciated the originality of your artistic research and before leaving this conversation we want to catch this occasion to ask you to express your view on in the contemporary art scene. For more than half a century women have been discouraged from producing something ' ', however in the last decades women are finding their voices in art: how

would you describe your personal experience as an unconventional artist? And what's your view on in this interdisciplinary field?

I don’t see myself as an unconventional artist. I just see myself as an artist.

Unfortunately my view on the future of women is somewhat bleak. Women continue to be undervalued and underrepresented in the visual arts just as they are in all areas of society. Our world remains a patriarchy and women are the subjects of gender apartheid.

Men in power want to remain in power and they support men to maintain this power.

There needs to be a major overhaul of the cultures in our world for gender equality to happen. As the British classicist Mary Beard says, “You can’t easily fit women into a structure that is already coded as male; you have to change the structure”.

Such a change could be achieved with one decision - men in power simply need to say, ‘Women represent 50% of the population and as such women should be as equally represented and paid as men. Lets make the changes we need to make this a reality.’

Many people will say that’s naïve, and the cost of such a change is prohibitive. Yet there is precedence for such significant change led by one decision. In the 1990s there was a major remodelling of society when the communist east was unified with the capitalist west in the reunification of Germany. The then West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl led reunification against the strong opposition of institutions and governments.

Women Cinemakers Change flowed from one decision. Kohl decided to unify two very different ideologies, political and social systems into one country. And the process to unify began. The government created new rules and people gave up some of their wealth and status to give status and wealth to others. Almost 30 years on from this decision Germany is the powerhouse of Europe (even as unification issues continue to be resolved) and Kohl is regarded as showing “… uncommon vision and courage when he seized on the fall of the Berlin Wall to work for German unification.”

There are many reasons to deny equality. But there are 3.8 billion reasons - the number of females in the world - as to why we must make this change. Of course there will be disruption and a period of adjustment – this will always be the case with a major sharing of wealth, social standing and jobs – but for gender apartheid to end and for women to achieve parity, men simply need to give up some of their power and wealth to women.

Thanks a lot for your time and for sharing your thoughts, Sylvia. Finally, would you like to tell us readers something about your future projects? How do you see your work evolving?

I am in the post-production phase of a project I have been working on for the past 2 years. The project is called ‘connect’ and it presents stories and interactions that build intrigue about who we are and how we relate to one another.

The project includes multi-channel films showing a social and visual portrait of over 160 people – from local communities in Blanca, Spain; Schöppingen and Berlin, Germany; and New York City, USA (around 40 people from each location) – sharing their private stories and thoughts as they answer 5 universal questions asked by the artist.

Each of these questions is the subject of its own film, with similar answers and counterpoints sewn together to build a narrative on humanity. These films are compelling and they draw us into the protagonists’ lives. Humans are curious by nature, so of course we’re interested in who these people are and what they do. We want to build a fuller picture for ourselves and the participants’ answers are so relatable or so unrelatable, that we can’t tear ourselves away. Watching and listening to other people allows us to see ourselves in others and by doing so offers us a way to start connecting.

Connection is an essential part of our humanity. ‘connect’ seeks to amplify life. It’s about not being afraid of making connections, of not building emotional and physical barriers, of not being afraid of being who we are, and of not being afraid to fully express who we want to be. The project celebrates what connects us – the same but different aspects of ourselves.

Difference is something we all have in common, and ‘connect’ provides a space for people of different ages (3 to 94 years), gender, socio-economic backgrounds, cultures and religions (aethiesm to Islam) to be seen and heard. People are given a voice to tell their own story in the context of answering the 5 universal questions.

The feelings driving the project are true connection and a universal love for others that is simply based upon our shared humanity. These feelings are present in all of the works by virtue of the protagonists’ generosity and honesty, and they are especially present in the film ‘gestures’, where each of us is unconditionally offered feelings of genuine warmth and love by over 160 strangers.

The world is full of possibilities. ‘connect’ provides an optimistic possibility, a hope for creating a world of shared humanity.

connect XII, 2018

Women Cinemakers meets

Danni Spooner Lives and works between Leicester and London

I am a working class, femme lesbian* (*predominately) who works across dance and other forms. I work as a performer, dancer and maker. This is usually across movement, film and the live. My work focuses around queer-ness and cyborg/posthuman/technology culture; sometimes together, sometimes apart.

An interview by Francis L. Quettier and Dora S. Tennant womencinemaker@berlin.com FAG is a captivating dance short film by British choreographer and experimental video artist Danni Spooner: reflecting cis-gendered society we exist in, this work address the viewers to such heightened and multilayered experience. Featuring brilliant approach to composition and unconventional cinematography, FAG is a successful attempt to create a captivating allegory of human condition: we are particularly pleased to introduce our readers to Spooner's multifaceted and stimulating artistic production.

Hello Danni and welcome to WomenCinemakers: we would like to invite our readers to visit https://www.dannispooner.com in order to get a wider idea about your artistic production and we would start

this interview with a couple of questions about your background. You have a solid background in previous training in Ballet, Modern, Jazz, Tap and Musical Theatre and you nurtured your education with a BA in Dance, that you received from DeMontfort University: how did these experiences influence your evolution as an artist? Moreover what did address you to focus an important part of your artistic research on the intersection between dance and experimental work?

Hey! Thanks for having me WomenCinemakers and hello to anyone reading.

Yes I began my training in a kind-of classical sense of dance and although I enjoyed it, I always felt slightly ‘off’ when I went to class. As I’m from a village where the arts and/or cultural activities are extremely rare, I didn’t discover contemporary dance until I was 16 years old.

Women Cinemakers Because of this I never attended a CATS (centre for advanced training) Scheme or benefited from contemporary culture until I began studying it at The Colchester Sixth form and then at degree level at De Montfort University. Stumbling across contemporary dance was what made me realise where my ‘offness’ was coming from; I didn’t identify fully with ballet, tap or musical theatre.. I identified with the experimental side of the arts and dance.

I think these experiences made me remain a very independent and curious person (and artist.. as I can’t separate the two). My studies at DMU allowed me to evolve in a way that I could set my own pathways and the university would support it. I worked long hours and spent a lot of time playing. If a studio was free I was going to use it, if an editing suite was free I was there until security threw me out at 9pm. And as I became a more realised version of myself I began to bring myself into the work.. not literally but in a way where my morals and viewpoint were relevant and felt right, but still risky to put out there.

As for the intersection between dance and experimental work.. back when I was studying dance A- level at sixth form I was instantly drawn to Merce Cunningham and John Cage’s work.

We had a TV and video player in a study room next to our dance studio and I would spend hours in there watching as many works as I could.

I think watching the way Cunningham and Cage worked ignited something in me. I realised that dance could have a different purpose to being traditional. Going onto study the Alexander Technique at DMU I realised that dance was just the way a body moved.. it wasn’t all techniques or aesthetically pleasing dynamic changes. It was that dance can be emotion, feeling, a tool, externalised thoughts, a language. The way we choose to

Women Cinemakers move is, politically, experimental. It is the way we exist in the world and that is political.

For this special edition of WomenCinemakers we have selected FAG, an extremely interesting dance video that our readers have already started to get to know in the introductory pages of this article and that can be viewed at https:// youtu.be/REpNwEOYUys. What has at once captured our attention of your insightful inquiry into the cis-gendered society is the way you have provided the results of your artistic research with such refined aesthetics, inviting the viewers to such a multilayered experience: when walking our readers through the genesis of FAG, would you tell us how did you develop the initial idea?

FAG came from a previous work I had made called ‘cisneutral’ during 2015/2016. For ‘cis- neutral’ and myself, I decided to shave all of my hair off. It was a personal decision based upon feeling the need to shed. When I was thinking about it I was also questioning my sexuality and gender identity, so I believe the initial ideas stemmed around some personal development.

The title is what was developed first. I was sat at my mums house, trying to come up with short film ideas. I was smoking at the time and started laughing with my boy/girlfriend* (*this is my name for my partner who doesn’t have a preferred gender but also doesn’t decide on a title) about how ironic it is that fags are (in the UK, anyway) both cigarettes and a derogatory term for queer people. I then thought about how it would be to reclaim that word, by including some humour with the smoking. I made a remark about drag queen Kim Chi from Rupaul’s Drag Race song

Women Cinemakers ‘Fat, femme and asian’ about how this song does a similar reclamation from Kim Chi’s experience of being called ‘fat, femme and asian’ as a negative. Then, BAM… got onto drawing it out.

Visually, FAG is inspired by The Holy Mountain by Alejandro Jodorowsky and Keiji Haino. I’m really fascinated by film that uses striking imagery to capture attention and this is what I attempted in FAG. I wanted to make strong choices about different gendered materials (wigs, heels, make-up, etc) and use dancers bodies to decorate them with. I wanted to keep it simple, androgynous or genderfucking.

Elegantly shot, FAG features stunning cinematography

by Alex Newton and a keen eye for details: what were your aesthetic decisions when shooting? In particular, what was your choice about camera and lens?

Honestly, the details about camera and lenses is still stuff I’m learning about. Alex did a really good job at capturing what I wanted just by me providing storyboards and directing.

Featuring essential and well-orchestrated choreography, FAG involves the audience in a voyeuristic and heightened visual experience, urging them to challenge their perceptual categories to create personal narratives: what are you hoping FAG will trigger in the spectatorship? In particular, how much important is for you to address the viewer's imagination in order to elaborate personal associations?

I hope FAG allowed the audience to feel like an intrusive bug. I attempted to allow the camera to look into places of the body that we all look at but don’t want to always admit. With the androgynous / genderfucking style of FAG I wanted to address the uncomfortable stares people may experience when they are gender non-conforming or trans. I think with this style there is a curious reaction (that is also rooted deep into societies’ love of the gender binary) to know what sex the bodies are. This is why I focus on the crotches and all the little details.. but in a way that attempts a confusion between the bodies so that the spectator has to almost let go of their imagination and accept what they are seeing as what it is and maybe an alternate reality.

So far, I’ve had viewers react with disgust and delight. The disgust is usually coming from a homophobic view point and the delight is usually coming from a hope of a better future for gendered ideas.

We have appreciated the way your approach to dance conveys sense of freedom and reflects rigorous approach to the grammar of body language: how do you consider the relationship between the necessity of scheduling the details of your performative gestures and the need of spontaneity? How much importance does play improvisation in your process?

Throughout all of my work, play and improvisation are key. For me, it’s a way to find the life of what you want to say and from there you can capture it, refine it and relive it later.

Women Cinemakers When making live work I feel that there is more chance to keep this initial play and improvisation in the performance - this is because the space is also alive in the same moment as the performance and the audience can choose where to look. Whereas for film, I find that I very much limit how much play is happening when it comes to shooting for the final work. In the process there is play but in the shoot there is actually a lot of control. I think this is because for film, I am controlling where the audience has to look and as I am interested in simplistic visuals being vital to the story (as abstract or as literal it may be) I tend to schedule when gestures happen and rehearse it quite a lot.

With its compelling narrative drive, FAG leaps off the screen for its powerful use of associative structures and effective mise-en-scéne: Deviating from traditional cinema, we daresay that FAG reflects German photographer Andreas Gursky's statement, when he remarked that Art should not be delivering a report on reality, but should be looking at what's behind something. We appreciate the way you challenge the spectatorship's perceptual categories in order to create personal narratives: as an artist particularly interested in open narratives, how open would you like your works to be understood? In particular, what what are you hoping FAG will trigger in the audience?

I feel like I may of answered most of this in your question about audience imagination. However, I’m not too concerned if my works are understood. At the moment I’m at the realisation that art work is just an opinion of life and that opinions don’t always make sense, or even have to.

Saying this I feel like there is always some kind of care in how I want my works to be taken; whether that is care for a subject I care about, or to create care for the audience.

With FAG I wanted to provoke the audience to question gender. I wanted to trigger thoughts and observations in an intrusive way. I guess this was the side of me that wants to create care for a subject I care about - gender and people who experience negativity due to gender.

As you have remarked in your artist's statement, FAG is a rebellious reflection on the cis-gendered society we exist in, with a quick wink and grin to political correctness. Mexican artist Gabriel Orozco once remarked that "the artist’s role differs depending on which part of the world you’re in. It depends on the political system you’re living under": what could be in your opinion the role of filmmakers in our globalised, still patriarchal and male-oriented society? In particular, does your artistic research respond to a particular cultural moment?

First I have to say that there needs to be more focus on female-identifying film makers and artists in general. I find it a real struggle to find female-identifying people to work with. There is a massive imbalance of focus and importance (I mean, when hasn’t there been?).

I think the role of filmmakers (especially cis, white men) is to consider privilege and focus on sharing it out. Part of that is considering who is in your crew and who is shown on screen. It’s thinking about who’s voice hasn’t been listened to and why it’s important for you to listen. I think a big part of it is trying to be a good human being, and

Women Cinemakers apologising if you make a mistake. AND having responsibility for bettering the world.

For my artistic research on this I respond to real life, for the majority. My queer focused work is fuelled by problems experienced by friends, family, myself, people on the internet, etc. I look into what people seem to want and need, and feel what’s right in my gut.

Many artists express the ideas that they explore through representations of the body and by using their own bodies in their creative processes. German visual artist Gerhard Richter once underlined that "it is always only a matter of seeing: the physical act is unavoidable": how do you consider the relation between the abstract feature of the ideas you aim to communicate and the physical act of creating your artworks?

It’s a weird one - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t, sometimes I find something else completely.

What’s most important is that all of these are okay.

The combination between sound and visual is crucial in your film and we have appreciated the way the sound tapestry by Anthony Ing provides the footage of FAG with such an ethereal and a bit unsettling atmosphere: as an artist particularly interested in experimental work, including collaborations with music technology, how would you consider the role of sound within your practice and how do you see the relationship between sound and movement?

A still from

Women Cinemakers Sound in film is very important. It can change how the audience views the piece. For FAG I wanted to flip the usual way of hearing; making tiny noises loud and loud noises tiny. This is why there is a continuous drone-like room sound that is quiet and then body/object sounds that are loud.

I think overall in my practice, sound always comes into it due to my interest in cross-disciplinary practice. I spent a lot of time with sound technologists and learnt how they think within their practice. I personally find a lot of comfort in heavy technological environments; rooms filled with screens, projections, wires, etc.

It’s a place where I feel free to move and exist. I guess, to a certain point, it allows me to feel virtual or cyborg or posthuman, and that is an escape.

The relationship between sound and movement, away from technology, is something that can’t be stopped. A lot of dancers have a habit of making vocal noises when they move - using it to explain the movement in a kind of abstract way. Using “bips and swooshes” as a valid explanation in how to execute a movement. This close relationship alone is very important to me. When I move I can’t help but create sound. They both sit in my gut in the same way. It’s a very somatic thing for me.

We have really appreciated the originality of your artistic research and before leaving this conversation we want to catch this occasion to ask you to express your view on the future of women in contemporary art scene. For more than half a century women have been discouraged from producing something 'uncommon', however in the last decades there are signs that something is changing. How would you describe your personal experience as an

Women Cinemakers unconventional artist? And what's your view on the future of women in this interdisciplinary field?

At the moment I’m finding it slightly difficult as an artist (whether i’m described as unconventional or not). But on the topic of being unconventional: I am finding that due to the internet, predominately Instagram, there is a need to be visually unconventional and be able to express that in a aesthetically pleasing way. This can feel in-genuine. I’m finding that there is a friction between being unconventional (and wanting to make uncommon work), and needing to be conventional to get work.

For the most part it feels uncomfortable, but I’m figuring it out (I hope).

From my experiences, I think there is a shift in balance for women in art (including the interdisciplinary field). Of course I’m consistently frustrated at the lack of women in high roles, even though I know they are capable. I’m frustrated at the obvious sexism and racism within arts institutions and organisations that favour the white male. BUT I do also see a shift and a light coming through. I’ve worked on music video shoots where 80% of the crew and cast were women and it felt incredible. It’s very important to have people who you can identify with being inspiring for you. Obviously I can’t speak for the future of women in the interdisciplinary field or the arts but I will say that for myself, as a emerging artist, young artist, someone figuring it all out artist, I am continuously inspired by women (and queer people) who are pushing boundaries, being badass, harnessing their power and using such love and kindness to develop themselves and their careers.

Thanks a lot for your time and for sharing your thoughts, Danni. Finally, would you like to tell us readers something

Women Cinemakers about your future projects? How do you see your work evolving?

Thanks SO much for allowing me to share my thoughts and having me here.

At the moment I’m waiting to hear back from a BFI (British Films Institute) on a Short Film Fund I just submitted, SO if that is successful please keep an eye out for a short of mine coming out in February (I believe) 2019.

I have started doing drag queen stuff in my spare time and am looking into doing club kid personality kind of work.. I’ve got the make-up, stripper heels and gathering more and more outfits. My drag personality is called baby and you can check them out on my instagram @dcatnni and my website www.dannispooner.com In July I had residency at Dance4 in Nottingham and opened my space to facilitate a queer community dance project for five days. Footage of that will be up on my website by the end of August 2018.

Two artist’s projects who I have been working with will be presenting their work soon. One is a Livia Rita music video and the other is Beth Kettels experimental video.

I’ve just got two pieces of my work ‘alienate’ (2018) and ‘pinkjam’ (2018) into a festival that I’m not allowed to say much about at the moment, but ‘alienate’ is a live work about wellbeing in cyborg culture and ‘pinkjam’ is a film instillation work about queer aesthetics and confusion.

An interview by Francis L. Quettier and Dora S. Tennant womencinemaker@berlin.com

Women Cinemakers meets

Zoe Sim & Mattina Hiwaizi Lives and works in Brighton, United Kingdom

Lives and works in London, United Kingdom

Frog and princess have both ran away from home and they come to the beach to calm down and share their sorrow with the sea. Princess watches the frog stepping around the rock pool careful not to stop any snails with her padded sticky toes.

She tells her story about how she had to leave home because her mother was angry she had bought too many tomatoes They happen to cross paths and form a friendship. They decide to go on an adventure to experience the world because the frog tells the princess that they are sad because the date tree in their garden is dying. Princess decides to help frog find a new tree. They go searching for the perfect seed but find only some sunglasses. ‘do I look cool?’ says the frog Princess is very impressed but very cold so they go up to the nearby castle and knock trying to find warmth and a dog to stroke. They are not allowed inside but instead a vision appears before their eyes of two beautiful vampires kissing. The whole world has gone purple. The vision cures them of their sorrows and they continue on their adventure keen to find the true purpose of life. The sea tells them a story and they learn about the whole entire world. Frog tells princess about how it’s their birthday and how they’ve never had a proper friend before. Princess tells frog about her crippling anxiety. They stand on a rock looking out to sea whilst ambient music plays.

An interview by Francis L. Quettier

in Fine Art from Chelsea College of Arts and

and Dora S. Tennant

Mattina a BA in Fine Art from Goldsmiths,

womencinemaker@berlin.com

University of London. How do these

Hello Zoe and Mattina and welcome to : we would like to introduce you to our readers with a couple of

experiences influence your evolution as artists? Moreover, how do your cultural substratums direct the trajectories of your artistic researches?

questions regarding your background. You have both solid formal training: Zoe holds a BA

(Z) - My experience of university was of

independence and freedom to play, without specific medium or projects I was able to explore many avenues of expression which led me to try out many different ways to myself. I have delved in painting, installation and photography, but often returned to film as a way to communicate concepts with a narrative or fantasy.

(M) - I used dressing up as a frog called Litter frog to help battle social anxiety during my first year of Goldsmiths. An alter ego helps makes things that seem less scary and do all the things that sometimes you’d be too scared to do otherwise such as making friends. Litter frog developed into an events platform, a performer and a musician who will be releasing an EP through Tobago Tracks in November 2018. I have now stopped dressing up as Litter frog on a regular basis because I have enough friends now.

(Z) - London is an amazing city and the people and places that we met and the events we went to informed our practices in different ways.. We both gained new confidence in ourselves and our work, and that enabled ideas to develop further.

interview

Women Cinemakers

Women Cinemakers

Women Cinemakers

interview

Women Cinemakers Experimentation has been a large part of our practices, and especially with this film we were using a drone for the first time and it was largely an experiment to see where it could take our ideas. New media became part of our practices at university, especially for Mattina who began to make films when they moved to London. Film has been a way to communicate specific ideas that are intricate and emotional, that are biographical and about larger political issues.

For this special edition of we have selected

, an

extremely interesting dance video that our readers have already started to get to know in the introductory pages of this article and that can be viewed at https://vimeo.com/mattinahiwaizi/review/28687 4902/b528ada7d4. What has at once impressed us of your insightful inquiry into the intersection between reality and imagination is the way your powerful mise en scène provides the viewers with a multilayered experience: when walking our readers through the genesis of the Princess and

the Frog, would you tell us how did you

consider our choice of costume. It seemed fitting

develop the initial idea?

for our alter egos that we developed together

(M) - Creating this film was incredibly

through our friendships became a part of this

performative and spontaneous‌ we started

film. The name litter frog for Matting, came from

knowing as best friends we wanted to bring our

a typo made by Zoe and just kind of stuck! And

different practices together, we both have strong

Zoe has been using pink and wearing pink when

artistic personas, Mattinas being litter frog and

in her alter ego, and this felt like an interesting

Zoe having an obsession with pink. This led us to

opportunity to play out these characters. We

made the connection to the princess and the frog

perspective and dramatic feel of our chosen

fairytale through our individual personas and

location. Most of the footage shot was

found that the strange tale could be a way to

improvised, we wandered around the beach in

communicate our own thoughts and surreally go

character playing with found objects and

through personal experiences and mental health.

incorporated existing elements into the film. We went to the location with no knowledge of what

(Z) - We wanted to use a drone to film

would be there that day and responded to it

predominantly because of the unusual

within our personas, the drone following our

actions battling with the fierce wind. Once we had the footage from there we worked on the script and putting the footage together not necessarily in the order shot. Mixing together different scenes to follow our script.

Featuring refined and well-orchestrated camera work,

features

gorgeous landscape cinematography, to involve the audience into heightened visual experience: what were your aesthetic decisions when conceiving this stimulating work?

(Z) - We chose the landscape for this film because of its dramatic nature, that day was stormy and very windy which made the landscape more wild.

Shooting from above allowed the inclusion of crashing waves against the cliff and pebble beach.

The muted colours of the landscape allowed our pink and green colourful outfits to stand out more. We gave our cameraman a few ideas of what angles we wanted such as from above to create a vast and powerful footage, as well the freedom to play around with no pressure to hide the process.

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Women Cinemakers

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Women Cinemakers

(M) - I think for me it was also about the sublime and the way drone footage can invoke a sense of the surreal. Since making this film I have started flying my own drone and use this technique within my own practise.

We have appreciated the way your approach conveys sense of freedom and reflects rigorous approach to the grammar of body language: how do you consider the relationship between the necessity of scheduling the details of your performative gestures and the need of spontaneity? How much importance does play improvisation in your process?

(Z) - We acted together as we would normally as friends but with an awareness of how each gesture and movement could evoke something. We had barely any pre-planned movements, we acted purely together as we would on any day. We did however tend to heighten the sense of childishness with the way we held objects and walked around with a sense of playfulness. Therefore improvisation was very important, and the journey that we followed around the space was real.

Many artists express the ideas that they explore through representations of the body and by using their own bodies in their creative processes. German visual artist Gerhard Richter once underlined that "it is always only a matter of seeing: the physical act is unavoidable": how do you consider the relation between the abstract feature of the ideas you aim to communicate and the physical act of creating your artworks?

(Z) - For us there are a lot of abstract objects, themes and visual elements that are intertwined into our work, and within this film especially we purposefully made what we did quite childish and abstract that the idea of reality and true emotions were more confusing. The physical act of creating this piece was quite similar, we instinctively acted out our characters and when it came to editing the film there was a sense of freedom to the order we put the footage together.

It's no doubt that collaborations as the one that you have established together are today ever

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Women Cinemakers

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Women Cinemakers growing forces in Contemporary scene and that the most exciting things happen when creative minds from different fields meet and collaborate on a project: could you tell us something about the collaborative nature of your work? Can you explain how your work demonstrates communication between two creative minds?

(Z) - A key part of this piece is that it is nothing like any of our current work, our practices are very different, and although we both do film, Mattina more so than me, this film brought out something new for both of us. The main similarity perhaps within our practices is that we both work quite spontaneously with landscapes, using places that we pass through our lives as backdrops to our work.

The other factor is that we have quite similar states of mental health, we can often relate to how we feel and react to situations and although we are different there is something about the way we work together that triggers similar behaviours.

(M) - There are also areas where we are very different, Zoe does one thing very thoroughly and very well and perfectly. Where as Mattina does a

million things at once and they always get it done, but with this film things like writing the script and converting text to speech took hours and hours of focussed thought that I would not have been able to do without Zoe. Zoe has more of a focus on aesthetic and I have more of a focus on energetic chaos and they have merged together into a very chaotic but well filmed, scored, scripted film. I think the process taught me how to be more patient with my art.

Marked out with refined visual qualities, seems to respond to German photographer Andreas Gursky's take, when he stated that Art should not be delivering a report on reality, but should be looking at what's behind something: its effective visual style provides your performance with such emotional intensity: what are were aiming to provoke in the viewers? And what do you hope the spectators take away from the Princess and the Frog ?

(Z) - The visual style of drone footage, connects to Andreas Gursky’s photography and the way he documents locations from above, from a position of

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Women Cinemakers

Women Cinemakers

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Women Cinemakers power looking down at the subject. It allows us the subjects in the film to be watched from a different point of view then most films, it allows for the landscape to become a vital part of the film and gives a sense of scale and...

The film definitely draws upon very personal details from our friendship that may not be apparent to the ordinary viewer. Both of us have very obsessive minds and have motifs or themes that we have obsessed about and drawing upon them to create a story of our friendship. We were looking beyond these obsessions to work out what the need for obsession was doing for us, if you’re obsessed with something you temporarily forget about the futility of existence and lack of purpose and we tried to turn these ideas of dread and fear of the future in a world heavily affected by climate change into something that was more exciting for us, an adventure. the Princess and the Frog has drawn heavily from the specifics of its environment and we have highly appreciated the way you have created such insightful resonance between space and movement: how did you select the location and how did it affect your performances?

Women Cinemakers (M) - The location is a beach near Brighton in

women in contemporary art scene. For more

Sussex, England that we used to go to when we

than half a century women have been

needed to get away from everything, primarily our

discouraged from producing something

parents. It was a place of relaxation and escapism

'uncommon', however in the last decades

but the architecture has an out of world feel and

there are signs that something is changing.

has a feel of a dystopian future, to me at least.

How would you describe your personal

Both me and Zoe love dystopian fiction so I think

experience as an unconventional artist? And

taking ideas from this and turning them into our

what's your view on the future of women in

own story was a very therapeutic process.

this interdisciplinary field?

(Z) - we decided to go to the location on the day

We went to school together when we were

of shooting, and when we were there we went

younger and absolutely hated each other,

almost straight away into character and started

because we were constantly jealous of each other

responding to the location. There were some

for various reasons.

elements that we decided we would interact with before filming such as the Beware Vampires that had been written by someone unknown to us on the gate. This gave us a little bit of structure in that we knew somewhere within the journey we would pass this gate.

Now looking back this jealousy was definitely rooted in misogyny and I think perhaps the best way we can move forward is if women stop feeling jealous of each other. Another women’s success or achievement doesn’t change anything you have done or will do. I think we have to

We have really appreciated the originality of

support each other and if we do that then there is

your artistic research and before leaving this

nothing holding us back from making incredible

conversation we want to catch this occasion to

and insightful artwork that will have an impact on

ask you to express your view on the future of

the way people see the world.

Women Cinemakers (Z) Personally over the last few years of using

infrared photography to reimagine and

pink in my artwork I have received mostly

oversaturate landscapes. False-colour infrared

support, but I have also been told that it is

photography has a dark history, as it was

arbitrary. Although pink is a minor issue of

invented for war camouflage detection in the

stereotyping girls, it does represent an

1940s. However, the aesthetics of pink can

ongoing connection to feminisation and a

trigger contradictory emotions because pink is

sense that this is a weakness. This is why I

associated with many politically charged

played the role of a princess, and decided to

stereotypes. My image’s hint towards a

wear pink, because I do want to challenge

futuristic environment where technology is

these ideas, as I’m aware that it is still an issue.

beginning to seep into nature and appears to

In the bubble of university we have received a

be malfunctioning at times.

lot of support and I have witnessed many strong female artists, professors and students and it has made me feel hopeful that gender will no longer play a role with who does what.

Some images are seamless they have no indication of something more sinister, but then there are others where the errors start to appear. I use post-production to play with the

Something about female friendship?

Thanks a lot for your time and for sharing your thoughts, Zoe and Mattina. Finally, would you like to tell us readers something about your future projects? How do you see your work evolving?

boundaries of technology, it has become a battle between my computers processor and my images.

White pube residency - have a link? Kurdish art … art lots ahh am tired sleepy …..

An interview by Francis L. Quettier

(Z) My work has evolved a lot from this film,

and Dora S. Tennant

continuing with pink she has been using

womencinemaker@berlin.com

Women Cinemakers meets

Joan Wind Lives and works in Detroit, Michigan, USA My videos often explore the fact that the devices we use facilitate a confessional way of communicating and expressing ourselves.

Never before has it been so simple to quickly and thoroughly document our raw thoughts and emotions through texts, photos, video and audio recordings, selfies, songs, notes, and memes. I often wonder: Do we lose authenticity through these routes due to our ability to edit, or do we gain authenticity because of how instant and effortless it is to make the private public?

In Solo Vacay, I am trying to find the “real me� through my camera, but is it there? The pursuit quickly becomes quite confusing, and is only complicated by the constant pang of sexist beauty standards. Is my selfie-taking empowering or am I just internalizing the misogyny? Am I expressing my true self or am I performing a role? Am I seeking truth or approval (and whose)?

In Self Portrait, the confusion visually culminates in a chaotic layering of selfies that seeks to reject these beauty standards, but simultaneously results in disembodied body parts and images, writhing and undulating on the screen. These images portray a perhaps more accurate picture of the techno-self: the self as captured by cameras and social media accounts, performed through technology.

An interview by Francis L. Quettier and Dora S. Tennant womencinemaker@berlin.com Hello Joan and welcome to

: we

would like to suggest to our readers to visit we would invite to our readers to visit https://www.joaniewind.com

in order to get a wider idea of your artistic production: in the meanwhile we would start this interview with a couple of questions about your background. You have a solid formal training and you hold a MFA of Interdisciplinary Art, that you received from Eastern Michigan University: how did this experience inform your current practice? Moreover, how does your direct your creative decisions?

Women Cinemakers

Before my MFA, my BFA was in painting. I made large-scale oil paintings—usually portraiture and animal studies with some abstract expressionist mark-making and a wild color palette.

Some of those older works are on my website. I entered graduate school intending to continue with the paintings and sculptures I had been working on before, but everything changed almost immediately. The first class I took was in installation and performance art, and I fell in love. I made my very first few videos in that class, and abandoned painting for quite a while (I considered making a video that documented a “funeral for painting,” showing a painting being lowered, like a casket, into the ground). In imagining a scene, the lighting, the details, the color, the composition of a two-dimensional visual frame, the focal point, and many other visual considerations were all influenced heavily by my painting background. Video seduced me with the addition of performance and sound. Sound offered an entirely new palette of textures, and I experimented a lot with it, as well as with the limits of my own body (mostly my face) to express and perform.

Another aspect of my experience in graduate school that made an impact on my current practice was my exposure to women’s and gender studies courses. Although I previously considered myself a feminist, it wasn’t until then that I realized just how much I needed feminism. In terms of my cultural substratum, I grew up in a very insular white Christian family. My grandparents had been missionaries, I was homeschooled throughout grade school (although more for academic reasons than religious ones), and I attended a Christian high school. I was what the cool kids wryly call “sheltered.” Many aspects of my upbringing encouraged me to focus on beauty, marriage, and childbearing (although my mother was a deep thinker, encouraged my art, and secretly rejected many of society’s

Women Cinemakers expectations for women). When I entered grad school, I had been married for 5 years. When I left, I was in the midst of a polyamorous relationship, at the beginning of a divorce, and coming out (although mostly to myself) as a bisexual. All of the videos in deal with my sentiment at the time: feeling trapped in heteronormativity, in an unhealthy relationship, and in playing a role that society wrote for me. Many of my videos explore the mania and insecurity that this trapped-ness incites.

For this special edition of we have selected , an extremely interesting project that our readers have already started to get to know in the introductory pages of this article and that can be viewed at . What has at once captured our attention of your insightful inquiry into in our media driven age is the way you have provided your artistic research with such a consistent aesthetics: while walking our readers through the genesis of Solo Vacation, what did address you to focus on this theme? was a unique and timely experience that came together naturally. I had just gotten divorced, but I was already involved in another relationship. I needed space and time alone to try and dig into my identity, but I had very little time and resources to do so. I ended up posting to facebook that I was looking for a place to stay alone for a weekend, and someone responded. We didn’t really know each other (she was my server at the local bar), but she had property just outside of town where she raised and bred horses, and she generously offered me a camper and hammock in the woods. Something about it felt perfect. I packed my camera, some clothes, some random props, and some snacks and went to the location without a plan for what I was to make.

Women Cinemakers The aesthetic bloomed before me. I happened to have pink hair that was growing out, I brought a pink compact and pink lipstick.

The camper had coral-pink on the outside and was accompanied by a pink striped hammock, a pink tie-dye chair, and the curtain on the inside of the door had a lush pink floral print. The look of it all was very natural and pretty—which is honestly much more femme than I identify with, but I always had a soft spot for bright colors (I blame it on my childhood obsession with Lisa Frank). It was colorful and dreamy, and I wanted to show that. Aside from what I did during the editing process, some of the scenes were shot with a home-made lens created with plastic cling wrap scribbled on with markers.

Marked out with a seductive beauty on its surface, addresses the viewers to a wide number of narratives to urge them to elaborate personal associations: would you tell us how much important is for you that the spectatorship rethink the concepts you convey in your pieces, elaborating personal meanings? How open would you like your works to be to be understood?

I didn’t have a script or pre-conceived conceptual framework for , other than this vague idea about getting to know myself. Little bits and scenes would occur to me as I was walking around with my camera, and I would act them out. Much of the way the topics flowed in and out of each other happened during the editing process, but I still wasn’t intending to pin any particular concept down too firmly. I knew I wanted to show this feeling of voyeurism—constantly feeling like I’m being watched by social media—because I became very aware of that once I got there. I also wanted to show my struggle with needing to be “pretty” for the camera. A kind of mania and frustration developed as I struggled with being the object of society’s and even my own gaze, or wondering who was really behind the camera. (“This is for

Women Cinemakers me. Is this for me?) The looming dread of death magnified the mania.

I am very open to viewers making personal associations and connecting personal meanings to my videos. I don’t think it’s possible not to. What feels really important to me, and in may ways signifies success, is when people find my work relatable. I want to commiserate. I want people to laugh. I think it is a way of coping. But yes, there are a lot of different ideas referenced somewhat ambiguously, and I am perfectly fine with others coming up with their own take-away meaning.

We daresay that you are interested into exploring the that mark out our consequence of media driven societies: how do you view the relationship between the concepts of the authentic and the imagined playing out within your artistic research? Moreover, do you think that your being a woman provides your artistic research with some special value?

I don’t think there is a hard line between the authentic and the imagined. Even before our societies became so media driven, there has always been fantasy, creativity, and the mind functioning as surrogate realities (perhaps for some more than others). My fantasies have always been very important to me, and in that way, they are an authentic part of my identity and my life.

Social media however, and other more public surrogate realities may facilitate an obsession with a certain identity that we are not fully in control of and can be harmful or problematic.

Perhaps part of it is due to the fact that those surrogate realities are validated more so by others than ourselves.

Anyone on instagram can attest to the fact that they feel the need to seek external approval of their aesthetic. Certainly, as a

Women Cinemakers woman, I have spent my entire life learning that I am the object of society’s incessant visual scrutiny, and as much as I acknowledge this and try to un-learn it, it is a consistent obstacle.

It is the main realization and struggle in , and I even grow to hate myself for continually giving in to it. What’s worse is that it’s hard for me to even tell when it’s happening, and when it’s not. It’s a difficult process to understand and dissect when you’re immersed in it. It gets very confusing and creates a continual self-conscious paranoia.

We like the way inquiries into the concept of techno-self: many artists express the ideas that they explore through representations of the body and by using their own bodies in their creative processes. German visual artist Gerhard Richter once underlined that " ": how do you consider the relation between the abstract feature of the ideas you aim to communicate and the physical act of creating your artworks?

I am considering how my physical features represent my identity as compared to how my life experiences and my thoughts—the contents of my mind—represent my identity. It was an interesting experiment to me to disembody, enlarge, rearrange, and otherwise obscure my facial features for a self portrait. I think people generally consider one’s “self” to be something separate from, or at least extending beyond one’s physical body, but contradictorily, we are obsessed with our own and others’ physical forms. I wanted to break far enough away from both the typical selfie posted online and the formal self portrait to depict a portrait that feels less like a recognizable image and more like a chaotic patchwork. When does the sight of a human face (especially a woman’s) incite empathy, and when does it incite objectification? Can both be present? I wanted to get away from the focus on my face or body, and instead focus on the thoughts

Women Cinemakers and experiences of another talking flesh machine, another human.

We have appreciated the subtle still effective sociopolitical criticism that pervades your inquiry into : Mexican artist Gabriel Orozco once stated, " ". How do you consider the influence of our globalized age and your artistic research? Moreover, what could be in your opinion the role of artists in our everchanging, unstable contemporary societies?

That’s a tough one! I am continually trying to fully understand what my role is as an artist, and beyond that, as a woman artist, and beyond that, as a white woman artist living in the USA. It is my hope that political globalization, in the form of unified underground social and political movements, provides a means for artists, women, activists, and all sorts of identities from all over the world (especially those who have been historically marginalized and silenced) to have their voices heard. I think technology provides new channels for this empowerment.

More artists than ever before now have the opportunity to create and distribute subversive cultural narratives and content that relates to local and/or global struggles.

Both and feature a mise-enscène that sapiently mixes perceptual reality with the surreal: how do you consider the role of technology as a bridge capable of walking us to between the real and the imagined?

Technology, not unlike painting in the past, has afforded us the ability to give life to our dreams, fantasies, fears, nightmares, and all other facets of imagination, but technology goes much further. Not only has it enabled our imagined lives to become

A still from

Women Cinemakers more real, but our real lives have become much more preoccupied with the imaginary versions of themselves. I think the bridge was already there, but technology has widened it so much that it’s hard to tell when you’re crossing it.

We like the way draws from everyday life's experience to trigger the viewers perceptual parameters: to emphasize the relationship between direct experience and creative process, British artist Chris Ofili once remarked that "creativity's to do with improvisation - what's happening around you". How would you consider the relationship between the necessity of scheduling the details of a performance and the need of spontaneity? How much importance does play improvisation in your process?

I completely agree with Ofili’s statement. For me, improvisation and some form of limitation (working with what’s around/available to me) are necessary for creativity. Planning each detail of a performance beforehand would be like writing a theoretical analysis of a painting before painting it, or scoring a game before it’s been played. Of course, there is some planning that must be done for any of those events to take place, but the essence of them is in the improvisation.

In creating a video, I have found that I need some forethought and planning, but I often use this process as a preliminary draft—a jumping off place for what I actually end up making. I think of the different stages of production as different drafts in the writing of an essay. The initial idea, screenplay, scene possibilities, and storyboarding serve as the very beginning—a stream-of-consciousness first few rough drafts. In the filming and performance of these ideas, I let improvisation all but take over. Finally, the editing process is when the essay really starts to flow and become a more succinct and (hopefully) clever expression of the original idea.

Women Cinemakers Your practice deviates from traditional videomaking to question the unbalanced relationship between everyday life's experience and the digital realm. Especially in relation to modern digital technologies, what is your point about the evolution of visual arts in the contemporary art? In particular, how is in your opinion technology affecting the consumption of art?

As technology and the digital realm dramatically transform our experiences of everyday life, it only makes sense that the creation and consumption of art would follow suit. I think the most major transformation of the art world that is happening is a stripping away of some of the elitism that has long been associated with it. I think there will always be a history that is woven into the fabric of what we consider art to be—a reference to formal traditions and art history—but I also think that it is about time that we realize that the value of art should not rest only in the eyes (and pockets) of art-world elites: old-school dealers, collectors, curators, and critics (most of whom are white and male). While the definition of art is overwhelmingly broad, and it takes many forms, I still feel comfortable saying this: anyone can make art, and anyone can appreciate art. Technology is proving this. Aside from technology making the creation and consumption of art more accessible, sociopolitical pressures from movements like feminism may finally be pressuring the art world to make big changes in terms of accessibility as well.

We have appreciated the originality of your works and we have found particularly encouraging your unconventional approach. For more than half a century women have been discouraged from producing something ' ', however in the last decades there are signs that something is changing. How would you describe your personal experience as an unconventional artist? And what's your view on in this interdisciplinary field?

Women Cinemakers

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I tend to be a bit reclusive and deeply relish my solitude, but I also have a contrastingly intense need to express myself and communicate to others. Video art is my therapy, my sanctuary, my catharsis. I am less concerned with whether what I make is accepted by mainstream avenues because I have never really felt a part of those channels to begin with. They don’t speak to me, and they certainly don’t speak for me. It gives me great joy to do my own thing, although there are admittedly moments of self-doubt.

It takes confidence to do something unconventional in any field, and confidence isn’t exactly something that society gives women in a welcome package. They say that empowered women empower women, and I am grateful for all of the women in film and video who have pioneered through patriarchal pushback. How long have women had to watch men live out adventures on the big screen while we were relegated to flower pots (or worse)? It’s long been time we carve out our own path, rip the microphone out of their hands, and show the world what we see.

Thanks a lot for your time and for sharing your thoughts, Joan.

Finally, would you like to tell us readers something about your future projects? How do you see your work evolving?

I’ve thoroughly enjoyed sharing! I’m currently working on an interdisciplinary painting and video project in which the painting is a visual response to a blanket my grandmother crocheted, and the video is a visual response to the painting (and also documents my painting it). The piece is about the women in my family and my choice to stray from what has been the prescribed life path for generations. There are already some lovely visuals like head-shaving and even hair glued into the painting. It’s hard to say which direction my work will evolve towards next, but one thing is for certain: I’m not stopping.

An interview by Francis L. Quettier and Dora S. Tennant womencinemaker@berlin.com

Women Cinemakers meets

Annie Goliath Lives and works in London, United Kingdom

Annie Goliath is an artist born in South Africa, who lives and works in London. Her moving image installations, performances and sound pieces navigate the changing relationship between the human and non-human, including biological and technological agents. In her practice she often places the past, present or potential futures in dialogue with each other as she explores different notions of consciousness, ecology, memory and time. Goliath is currently studying an MFA in Fine Art at Goldsmiths, University of London and has recently formed the AGBA art collective. In 2017, she was awarded Arts Council England Grants for the Arts for the 18-month project Recycle, Rewind and Animate. Recent group exhibitions and screenings include Spring Cleaning, G04 Crown Place Apartments, London, 2018; Between Democracies 1989-2014: Memory and Commemoration, Bratislava, 2017; Approaches to Fluidity, The Koppel Project Hive, London, 2017 and The Explorer Series: Invisible City Symphonies, various locations around London, 2016.

An interview by Francis L. Quettier and Dora S. Tennant womencinemaker@berlin.com Hello Annie and welcome to

: we would

like to invite our readers to visit in order to get a wider idea about your artistic production and we would start this interview with a couple of questions about your

background. You have a solid formal training: you hold a BA (Honours) in Fine Art and Graphic Design from UEL and you are currently pursuing an MFA in Fine Art at the prestigious Goldsmiths, University of London: how do these experiences influence your evolution as a cross disciplinary artist? Moreover, how does your direct the trajectory of your artistic research?

Thank you for your warm welcome. The experience of studying a combined honours degree in the subjects of fine

Women Cinemakers art and graphic design influenced my evolution in that both subjects taught me to analyse reality in different ways – which sometimes created a contradictory tension. In graphic design, whether your approach is direct or subtle, the focus is ultimately on selling a product. In contemporary art, the focus is on deconstructing or reconstructing meaning and particularly within my art practice: exploring the multi-faceted, complex and interrelated reality behind the immediate surface of things. The practical skills that I gained while studying graphic design have been useful in developing my crossdisciplinary practice in relation to creating moving image pieces and artist’s books. At UEL, I participated in a Live Art module that had a focus on performance which, combined with my previous experience of studying drama as a child and a teenager: helped me to develop the performative aspect of my practice.

I attended The National School of the Arts for high school in Johannesburg and majored in painting and sculpture, which assisted my development as a visual artist early on. Before I went to study at university, my experience of both recording and performing as a singer-songwriter and musician, has also influenced my evolution as a cross-disciplinary artist because I am able to apply my musicianship to my art practice and developed skills in working collaboratively. My postgraduate studies at Goldsmiths have also influenced my evolution particularly in relation to research as my exposure; through lectures, workshops and tutorials, have helped me to develop further the core concerns underlying my practice.

In terms of the impact of my cultural background, I grew up in South Africa and experienced first hand the tumultuous era of the end of Apartheid. I was fortunate to grow up inspired by my liberal, mother of Irish and Scottish descent, who instilled a questioning of this political system of oppression and a critical manner of thinking through things. I developed an acute awareness of inequality and injustice, which still influences the

direction of my artistic research today. As a young adult I moved to London which was challenging in that I had to adapt to a very different cultural way of being but also incredibly exciting and enriching. These dislocated experiences have assisted me in being able to view things from a larger, global perspective and from the point of view of a particular place simultaneously: which I think adds an objectivity to my artistic research. we have For this special edition of selected , a stimulating performance video that our readers have already started to get to know in the introductory pages of this article.

What has at once caught our attention of your socio politically engaged inquiry into our relationship with contemporary technosphere invites the viewers to a multilayered experience, conveying both and a sharp eye on our age. When walking our of this project would you tell readers through us how did you develop the initial idea?

When I was still studying at UEL, I watched a documentary about the English comic actor, filmmaker, and composer Charlie Chaplin and was struck by his difficult childhood, prolific artistry combined with the powerful, political stance that his later films took, particularly (1936) and (1940). I have always been drawn to satirical comedy as I think it is a subversive tool, which can hold up to ridicule the insanity of things in a similar manner to the avant-garde movement of Dada, which rejected the so-called ‘rationalism’ and ‘progress’ of societies at the time and condemned the nationalist and capitalist values that the movement believed had led to the horror of war.

My art practice has always been concerned with the complex relationship between humans, nature and technology. Since

Women Cinemakers studying at Goldsmiths and engaging with lectures and workshops in which concerns about the ecological crisis of Anthropocene – a proposed epoch commencing from when human activity started to have a significant, destructive impact on the Earths’ ecosystems and geology resulting in issues such as climate change amongst others – I began to ask, what is the main cause for this ecological crisis humanity faces? I was particularly drawn to Jason Moore’s proposed name for this epoch namely Capitalocene, which places the blame for this ecological crisis on capitalism’s exploitative relations to labour, food, energy and raw materials. I was also thinking about how different technologies change our relationship to labour, our bodies, and time. Furthermore I was reflecting on issues surrounding Big Data such as the control and manipulation of individual’s data. These reflections combined to make me think of the film and in particular the Billows Feeding Machine scene, in which Chaplin is an assembly line worker who is forced to test an automated machine that would feed the workforce to shorten the lunch break, reducing downtime – increasing production and profit. I decided that I would reinterpret this scene, as saw striking parallels and differences between then and the present-day. reflects regarding the composition of performative gestures: how would you consider the relationship between the necessity of scheduling the details of a performance and the need of spontaneity? How much importance does play in your practice?

The conscious shift that you noticed regarding the composition of performative gestures in arose from my focus on wanting to re-interpret the Billows Feeding Machine scene from Chaplin’s film . There is a jump cut within this scene at the halfway point, which is why I had two cameras set up during each of my performances so that I could echo this shift. I think that the

strength in re-interpreting a historical performance is to mirror it in many ways so that the differences, such as the appearance of the smartphone – will be more striking. I think that my research and preparation was important as I studied Chaplin’s comedic gestures intensely beforehand and also recorded two practice takes to study these so I could get a sense of what was most effective within my movements.

However improvisation is also important in relation to my practice. As a recording musician in the past, I learned the hard way about the negative impact of over-analysing and then redoing takes to many times – which ruined some musical compositions. This approach robs the ‘presence’ of the moment and stalls spontaneity to a point where the dynamism and emotive quality of the performance is far reduced. In , I had a helpful limit of only being allowed three takes due to having three cakes. I found this limitation helpful, as although I had an overall sense from my preparation: in those three takes I had no specific plan and surrendered to a sense of improvisation. In the future, I want to work more with improvisation as this opens up my practice further to the element of chance and the elusive potentialities therein. Another research area that I’m fascinated by in my practice, is attempting to understand different notions of time through scientific discoveries in quantum physics and other sources. I have most recently been exploring through research, the possibility of understanding improvisation as a quantum system of time entanglement and would like to pursue this avenue further.

With elegance and captivating humour highlights the burdensome aspect of technology in terms of automation, digital interruption and dehumanisation. Mexican artist Gabriel Orozco once stated, " ": as an artist particularly

Women Cinemakers interested in questioning the relationship between the human and non-human, how do you consider the role of the artist in our unstable and globalised contemporary age? In particular, does your artistic ? research respond to While I don’t think I can speak for other artists as each are responsible for their own positions and concerns, I think that my role as an artist in our unstable, globalised contemporary age is partly to reflect upon the multilayered issues that arise from this instability. My art practice is interested in questioning the relationship between the human and non-human – including biological and technological agents – as a response not to a particular cultural moment but more to the immensity of the present-day ecological crisis versus the unprecedented acceleration of technological developments. The ecological concern directed my artistic research into examining some of the “new materialists” that offer us the prospect of a reorientation of thought, as their ideas combine to overthrow the myth of human centrality, which contributed in a sense to the ecological crisis. There is an overall reengagement with matter – to some extent informed by developments in natural science – as being dynamic, vital and possessing agency. This research has made me think more about the inseparability of our bodies with the environment, which outlines an unavoidable, symbiotic relationship. It also points towards the need for an ethical responsibility towards the environment upon which we all depend: an interconnected, messy, vibrant and constantly evolving web.

I would agree with the statement you have mentioned by the Mexican artist Gabriel Orozco in relation to my practice, which does respond in a sense, to the political system that I’m living under in two respects. Firstly there is

the political system I live under in the UK – which is the turmoil of Brexit. When I made my artistic research was focused on data manipulation and control amongst concerns about automation and digital overload. Since I completed it there have been many revelations surrounding the company Cambridge Analytica and other companies associated with this firm, which illegally manipulated the public by accessing millions of people’s social media profiles and then influenced their opinions – which changed the outcome of Brexit and the US election. In this way a startling sense of exploitation occurred. Secondly, in a broader sense my artistic research responds to the economic and political system of advanced, consumer capitalism within the digital age: specifically because this system stands in opposition to the sustainability presently needed. In

, I often think of the cake as not only a metaphor for time but also for consumer capitalism and its insatiable appetite. highlights how the impetuous way modern technology has come out on the top has dramatically revolutionized our lives, and we have found particularly interesting your inquiry into how different forms of technologies change our relationship to our virtual and mortal bodies: do you think that the role of the artist has changed these days with the new global communications and the new sensibility created by new media?

I think that the role of the artist has changed in that firstly, they need to think more globally because that is the inescapable

reality of the 21st century. Secondly, new media has changed the way that certain politicians govern which, combined with populism has lead to a post-truth politics that changes the role of some artists into a certain kind of truth seeker. Thirdly, social media changes how we all communicate and share information. My earlier two-channel installation (2016), explored memory and how it is changing in the digital era, such as the ways that new forms of media are changing the way that society stores information into a mega-archive of the internet, yet paradoxically there is a form of cultural amnesia and an escapism from physical embodiment. These digital developments have created issues around privacy controls, surveillance and an overall sense of devaluing because a digital file can be endlessly copied at no cost, which has sent many individual jobs and entire industries

into turmoil as they attempt to adapt. Yet these digital innovations have also opened up opportunities to build large communities within this network culture of sharing, with one of the most positive being the utopian community of Wikipedia, in which volunteers give freely of their time to allow knowledge to be available to everyone at no cost. We can’t deny that technology is a part of humanity’s evolution – as is the environment – but I think one of the important potential roles of an artist is to bring an informed critique so as to warn against potentially harmful directions. This is why I am drawn to science fiction within my research and practice, as I think dystopias can act as a warning and utopias – an imaginative leap towards potential solutions.

I also think the role of the artist has changed due to a growing desire in many to analyse, question and fathom the evolving

technological advancements versus the reality of the ecological crisis. At one extreme people are becoming more posthuman, something akin to a cyborg as the human is becoming more deeply entangled with technology. On the other side there is an environmental evolution of posthuman ethics in the sense of realizing our inseparability and dependence on an environment under threat. How are we to reconcile these opposing evolutions of the posthuman: environmental versus technological? I think we may be in danger of glorifying aspects of technology such as manipulation of code or genetic engineering at the expense of denying material embodiment.

Some transhumanists, futurists and neuroscientists believe that copying a humans neural map and importantly their memories into a virtual realm, will soon lead to human immortality.

Powerful entrepreneurs and companies like Google fund

Women Cinemakers era of and from the genre of , you have created a powerful mix capable of challenging the viewers cultural parameters to find . How do you consider the issue of audience reception in relation to your creative process? What do you hope will trigger in your spectators?

In terms of reception I consider the audience to be co-creators in producing meaning for each artwork as they bring a unique moment of engagement due to their valuable cultural, emotional and political experiences and varied knowledge of all kinds. I aim to create a thought provoking, multi-faceted encounter that is not easily solved – reflecting the complex reality of the present-day

different versions of this project. Surely the physical equipment that would be needed to power our immortal, digital selves would be vulnerable to the environment upon which it depends to function? Also my research into human memory revealed it to be far more creative, unreliable and closer to imagination than the reductive approach of copying files to a computer. This development into the supposed world of digital immortality seems be a desire that once again, negates the importance of the reliant and entangled nature of human and non-human with their environments. I think these ideas and questions outline some of the challenging contradictions that many artists are thinking about today – with a vast variety of outcomes.

We daresay that your approach is centered on the ability of making the viewers aware of the urgency of the themes that you explore: drawing from the cultural heritage of the

I do also hope that will trigger some of the correlations and differences that I have thought about which exist between 1936 and 2018. Firstly, the film highlights the dehumanisation that occurred in the system of Taylorism, which is a management theory developed by Frederick Taylor as a response to the Industrial Revolution and the need for a faster, more efficient workforce.

The assembly line, which the factory worker that Chaplin played is a part of and rebels against; is the most recognized example of this system involving mindless, repetitive tasks for unskilled workers. The cons are that this system of management was domineering and took away the control of the worker in relation to their body, their ability to build skills and contribute in a meaningful way: they are rendered a mere part of the efficient, profit-driven machine. Modern Digital Taylorism has these same cons yet is also more powerful in that technological innovations have made the manager’s tools much more efficient and yet far less visible. Employers can now monitor almost all aspects of their workforce through accumulating worker’s data from highly intrusive, management software or from their work smartphones or Fitbits – transforming bodies into corporate property. There is also an acceleration of time

Women Cinemakers that has occurred within the digital age due to the constant bombardment of digital interruption through emails and messages received on our varied digital devices. In France in 2016, workers got ‘the right to disconnect’, which means the legal right to avoid work e-mails out of working hours which is a step in the right direction but highlights a global problem. This new climate of Digital Taylorism combined with an overload of digital demands on workers – which have been blamed for burnout syndrome and depression – are making the work environment for many more dehumanising.

Secondly, there is also the reality of automation both then and now, with an unprecedented new wave of automation fast approaching. The difference according to the leading economic historian Joel Mokyr is that the current disruptions are more intensive and faster and he wonders whether the system can adapt, as it was able to in the past. Thirdly, there is also another distressing similarity, which I plan to focus on in my next reinterpretation of Chaplin in the near future titled .

Before filming Chaplin witnessed, while touring around Europe, a disturbing rise of extreme nationalism and shortly afterwards began the terrifying barbarism of WW2. More recently we are witnessing a similarly alarming rise of extreme nationalism globally in this age of post-truth politics.

We daresay that your practice seems to reflect German photographer Andreas Gursky's words, when he stated that : are you particularly interested in structuring your work in order to urge the viewers to elaborate ? In particular, how open would you like your works to be understood?

I identify strongly with the words of the photographer Andreas Gursky; as my thinking, research and artistic process is mostly searching beyond the surface of things. I am open to the audience forming personal, poetic, political or cultural elaborations to form

Women Cinemakers new meanings. I also think it is important to allow enough layers of complexity in the artwork to reflect reality, yet not too much to overwhelm. But I also think it is important as an artist to be able to articulate the core concerns of each artwork and to pinpoint its overall position as either a critique or a celebration: so as not to sit on the fence. I’d like to experiment more with live improvisation in my practice in the near future, as I think this approach can continually reanimate the different art mediums and the audience’s responses – reflecting the transitory nature of existence. also explores the notion and the consequence of surrogate realities that affects our media driven societies, as the change of our relationship to our virtual and mortal bodies: how do you view the concepts of the real and the virtual playing out within your artistic process?

One of the upcoming art projects I have planned is titled , which will further explore the irony that we are far more connected in virtual space within the digital age and yet paradoxically, we are less connected in an embodied sense in real time. My idea for this moving image piece is to film improvised dance segments that will then overlap – occupying the same space yet never connecting with each other – capturing that sense of disconnection. There is also a larger, three-part moving image installation and performance piece driven by a feminist, science fiction narrative that I’m developing and at this point contains concerns about the virtual and the real. I have also imagined including virtual reality within a collaborative artwork, so that is a possibility for the future.

Marina Abramovic once remarked the importance of not just making work but ensuring that it’s seen : how is in your opinion by the online technopshere affecting audience? Do you think that today it’s easier to a particular niche of viewers or that online technology will allow

Women Cinemakers artists to extend to a broader number of viewers the interest towards a particular theme?

I agree with the statement that Marina Abramovic has made, and think that new media can assist with this but also get in the way of it. Due to the sharing economy and network culture of the digital age, it has become easier to connect with a particular niche of viewers, because social media sites like Facebook have built tools; which can help to build a supportive, like-minded, and creative community. Group members from these communities can interact in stimulating ways such as being invited to exhibitions and sharing knowledge. The issue is that there can also be an oversaturation of information, which can dilute quality and the ability to engage or even get through the overwhelming digital noise. Also tensions arise around copyright, authorship and the question, what happens to the expert and to the value of things in the new economy of free sharing and constant exposure?

In terms of the consumption of art, at one extreme there is a new culture of Instagram-ready pop up museums going viral, which really is a sign of the times. These photogenic live events are indicative of a selfie-obsessed culture being co-opted into a new form of consumption. From another point of view, I think that the process of digitisation has democratised the accessibility of viewing artworks from many major art institutions by placing them online and in this way supporting art education. But due to a reliance on having an Internet connection, it privileges the West, so this process is not yet entirely democratic. Digital tools such as virtual reality technology and mobile augmented-realty (AR) guides can make the experience of viewing art in museums more interactive. This is beneficial because it has been shown to help attract more members of the public to engage with art in an enhanced way. This has resulted in a shift from a passive to an

active experience and along with the use of social media, a socialisation of many art museums. However for some art museums, a lack of funds and digital knowledge can be difficult. I think it will be interesting to see how digital media will affect individual artists and the consumption of art over the next decade, as things are continually changing.

10) Before leaving this conversation we want to catch this occasion to ask you to express your view on the future of women in the contemporary art scene. For more than half a century women have been discouraged from producing something 'uncommon', however in the last decades there are signs that something is changing. How would you describe your personal experience as an unconventional artist? And what's your view on the future of women in this interdisciplinary field?

The feminist activist artist’s Guerrilla Girls have a powerful poster which cuts to the core of what was and still is to an extent, upside down within the contemporary art world: ‘Only 5% of the artists in the Modern Art Sections are women, but 85% of the nudes are female.’ This poster now hangs in the Tate Modern in central London, which demonstrates that attitudes are slowly shifting and there have in the last decades been a rise of many prolific and inspiring female artists.

An iconic, early feminist video art piece is Martha Rosler’s (1975), in which the artist takes on the role of a housewife and performs a parody of a television cooking demonstration. Kitchen implements surround the artist that she slowly, methodically names in alphabetical order. Her movements are punctuated with an increased aggression that communicates an oppressed rage at the domestic servitude of women at the time. This video piece was a more indirect influence behind Being a female artist performing as the male comedian Chaplin, conveys the

Women Cinemakers modern blurred line of the female worker in the digital age, who has assumed many more job roles that were previously exclusively male and yet still has to struggle with the harsh reality of unequal pay. Women may have to an extent escaped the confines of the kitchen but now within the modern workplace, inequality of pay and a general devaluing of the work that females predominantly perform such as care work – still haunt women living in the 21st century.

Within the contemporary art world, statistics have revealed that female artists are paid less and have less gallery representation than men. However I think that the future of women in the field of contemporary art is vital and filled with more opportunity and overall support than in the past. I have grappled with the awareness that my art will usually be analysed from the perspective of being a ‘female artist’ rather than simply an artist. However I feel there is an immense power and collective solidarity in the global Women’s March and Me Too Movements currently – combined with the many, hard-won struggles of feminism in the past – which many female artists were a part of. Overall, I think it is important for me to focus on the progress that has been made for women within the contemporary art world and rather than being frustrated by the label of ‘female artist’ – to embrace it’s complications, potency, relevance, vitality, and hope.

Thanks a lot for your time and for sharing your thoughts, Annie. Finally, would you like to tell us readers something about your future projects? How do you see your work evolving?

Thank you for the opportunity I have had to answer your thought-provoking questions in this special edition of . In terms of my future projects, I have already discussed one of the next moving image pieces that I plan to make titled . I have also mentioned

briefly that I will be re-visiting Chaplin in another moving image piece titled , which will consist of a parody performance influenced by a small segment of (1940). This artwork will have disturbing parallels within the age of post-truth politics. I plan to research further into the philosophical ideas surrounding the concept of affect, which I will apply to my short performance.

I am also simultaneously developing a much larger art project, which I plan to install for my final Degree Show at Goldsmiths in 2019. As I mentioned previously, I have been busy with research for this three-part, moving image installation that will be based on a feminist, science fiction narrative that I’m developing. At this point I’m thinking more broadly about feminist concerns and tensions between the real and the virtual within the digital age. I’m also investigating questions about the nature of consciousness. As the narrative develops, I will be able to pinpoint more precisely the artworks core concerns. Also once the narrative is complete, I will be returning to the medium of painting, developing a series of abstract pieces that respond to the core concerns. I also plan to develop an accompanying artist’s book, which will unlock the ideas behind the piece in an unusual manner. Within the final installation, I will install this series of paintings along with the moving image piece. I plan to also reanimate the space with a collaborative, improvised performance piece, at intervals throughout the exhibition, which I then plan to film and edit back into the final moving image piece. I am excited about this evolving process and bringing together these diverse art mediums and my core concerns – enriching each other in unknown and invigorating ways.

An interview by Francis L. Quettier and Dora S. Tennant

womencinemaker@berlin.com

Women Cinemakers meets

Jana Wisniewski Lives and works in Vienna, Austria

We are on stage everywhere, in town, in internet. We are visitor and performer. Some female dancer had fun to be on stage in front of a famous theatre in Vienna. They look at their I-Pad´s like in a mirror. The idea was, to mix the viewpoint from the I-Pad with my viewpoint with the camera.

An interview by Francis L. Quettier and Dora S. Tennant womencinemaker@berlin.com

Hello Jana and welcome to we would like to introduce you to our readers with a couple of questions regarding your background. Are there any experiences that particularly influenced you as an artist?

Moreover, how does your direct the trajectory of your artistic research?

I was educated at the University of Applied Arts in

:

Vienna, Austria, and I’ve worked in a variety of media, so videos are not the only art form I use to express my vision. As a child, I received Austrian citizenship after being stateless for several years, and this experience as foreigner had a impact on my life.

Over the years, I’ve been influenced and inspired by a variety of social and technological movements. I’m impressed by small, intelligent machines so I try to understand them, and work with them, but I don’t consider myself a slave to technology. We live on a planet with plants and animals, and we can only be successful as long as

Women Cinemakers we coexist, and don’t destroy the resources we live from.

This theme was the topic of a webwork http://e-motionartbook.com/FormWien/I.N.S.I.D.E.G.R.E.E.N.htm.

Additionally, I work with up-and-coming strategies in art, and whether it is building websites or furniture, working with Augmented Reality or other technological innovations, I try to explore that media form and then decide whether I want to stick with it for years or let it be a short experiment. For more specific information on what I’ve worked on over the years, you can look at my personal website (http://e-motion-artbook.com/).

For this special edition of we have selected , an extremely interesting dance short film that our readers have already started to get to know in the introductory pages of this article and that can be viewed at . We have appreciated the way your work brings the nature of relationship between the body and its surroundings to a new level of significance, unveiling the ubiquitous bond between the individual and outside reality: when walking our readers through the genesis of , would you tell us how did you develop the initial idea?

In the idea of “open space,” I would definitely include the internet. To work with both together -reality and any transfer through internet- is contemporary art. During a

Women Cinemakers discussion with a contemporary artist-group, Celle, I met the female leader of Raumspiele. They dance on remarkable places to remember political actions. I asked them to work with me. It is not the first time I was in connection with dancers, once I asked (as a curator) a couple of dancers to work with Herbert W. Franke for an exhibition, because he wanted to transform the movement to media art. The main idea was to put together professional dancers, artistic performers, and a vision as a filmmaker to combine the real movement through a camera and the sight of the iPad, while dancing. The dancers would walk with the iPad as if with a mirror and the mirror would be creating the film. And, it should happen in front of a famous theater: what normally is inside should be outside, as a free performance in open space.

How do you consider the relationship between the necessity of scheduling the details of the videos and ? How much importance does play in your process?

The truth is, we decided to make a first experiment on the day when the 4 black ladies made that kind of remembering work nearby and afterwards we thought we would like to try something. We worked in front of the Burgtheater, because I wanted it to take place in front of the stage with the Burgtheater as a scenery.

The dancers tried to get ready with the technology,

with two fake and two real iPads. We had music, but then nearby a sports event made a great noise, so we had Zumba and one woman liked it and started to dance. The female performer was not there, but at least I had some material, which I did not use immediately.

With Raumspiele we did some other nice things, like an intervention combined with a discussion in KĂźnstlerhaus Vienna and an architectural intervention in front of the DC Tower Vienna, but we drifted apart later, because the really big things we

dreamt of, could not be realized. Three films are the result of our work together. EGO was only made of the files from the iPad www.vimeo.com/120096343, TABLET was made in the exhibition in the KĂźnstlerhaus www.vimeo.com/118806448, and MIRROR STAGE was made only with my camera and filmed in front of the DC Tower Vienna www.vimeo.com/118806448. Later, I came back to my first intention and made ON STAGE IN OPEN SPACE, free of any connection or event.

We have appreciated the way you have provided your short film with such a poetic quality, capable of establishing emotional involvement in the viewers: what were your when conceiving the choreography and what did you aim at triggering in the spectatorship?

For me, art is not journalism, it is more of a fairytale. I want to show that we are always on stage, in reality and in the internet. There is always a mirror,

in reality and in the internet, and that life is a dance, in which we are both included and excluded.

To look at our interactions with devices is becoming more common, so I think people will understand.

Inquiring into the duality of being visitor and performer at the same time, highligths fact that in our media driven society we are on stage everywhere, in town, in internet. Marina Abramovic once remarked the importance of not just making

work but ensuring that it’s seen : how is in your opinion online technopshere affecting by the audience? Do you think that today is easier to a particular niche of viewers or that online technology will allow artist to extend to a broader number of viewers the interest towards a particular theme?

Unfortunately the internet is not a great help for art and especially for media art. Most topics are cats, weapons, cars, and lots of movies are about „make up“ or something like that. But we can still survive by accident, or get famous. We find what we look for. We can find wonderful art-movies in internet with only a few clicks. And we can see many documentary videos; I find the internet much more interesting than TV. Many artists express the ideas that they explore through representations of the body and by using their own bodies in their creative processes.

German visual artist Gerhard Richter once underlined that " ": as a multidisciplinary artist deeply involved in dance, how do you consider the relation between of the concepts you explore in your artistic research and of your practice? Moreover, do you think that your

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being a woman provides your artistic research with some special value?

To use one’s own body for creative processes is very common, because it is the easiest way to get somebody to realize what you want to say. I did that often, but I have respect for the “experts,� so when it comes to dance, I prefer a professional dancer; and when it comes to music, I prefer a real musician. Women move like women: I can see no need to move like a man or a machine. I therefore appreciate that the 4 black ladies are feminine in their movement. But, again, the concept is to tell the truth about our relationship to technology and life, not to tell something special about woman specifically. features essential cinematography with a keen eye to details and we have really appreciated your successful attempt to capture between gestures and urban environment: how do you consider the relationship between space and movement playing within your artistic research?

More and more I have found that movies give me better possibilities to realize the connection from space to movement, because people are to lazy to look at the sensitive spot on a webwork, to go forward, but a movie

just plays without additional work.

It's no doubt that artistic collaborations are today ever growing forces in Contemporary Art and that the most exciting things happen when creative minds from different fields meet and collaborate on a project: could you tell us something about the collaborative nature of your work? Can you explain how your work demonstrates communication between two or more artists?

That was my overall dream, to collaborate with artists or other professionals. But that is very often not easy. If you can pay for the contribution, it is easy, but if you have to develop a concept together just to get the money, often the concept is somewhere else and you are in the middle of nowhere.

We have really appreciated the originality of your artistic research and before leaving this conversation we want to catch this occasion to ask you to express your view on the future of women in contemporary art scene. For more than half a century women have been discouraged from ', however in the producing something ' last decades there are signs that something is changing. How would you describe your personal experience as an unconventional artist? And what's

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Women Cinemakers

Women Cinemakers

Women Cinemakers

A still from

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Women Cinemakers your view on the future of women in this interdisciplinary field?

Over time, more and more women have been able to enter into almost every profession. The best thing is to work with them on that professional level, without mentioning friendship or female power or whatever. If we are a good fit based on shared interests, we should just be able to work together, regardless of gender.

Thanks a lot for your time and for sharing your thoughts, Jana. Finally, would you like to tell us readers something about your future projects?

How do you see your work evolving?

I am not able to see into the future, I hope the future will find me.

Maybe I’ll connect to some more videos I’ve made previously, self-imaging as a flag www.vimeo.com/137703314 or prosit profit www.vimeo.com/192448640, but I never share works-in-progress, only things which are done.

An interview by Francis L. Quettier and Dora S. Tennant womencinemaker@berlin.com

Women Cinemakers meets

Julia Kater Lives and works in Sao Paulo, Brazil

Lives and works in São Paulo, Brazil. Bachelor's Degree in Pedagogy at PUC/SP and Graduate Studies in Psychomotricity at ISPEGAE, OIPR Paris/France. Course of Photography at ESPM/SP. The research of the artist Julia Kater is guided in the elaboration of a body of work that can treat it from its visual improbability. Whether by the collage brought about by different overlaid photographic prints, which announces a watchful sky – despite its invisible character – or by videos that bring about the rearrangement of a set of actions and phrases, each work in its own way prioritizes the elaboration of bodies from everyday scenes that suggest simultaneous shared experiences with the persistent memory together with its struggle with forgetfulness, its ally and the cause of the gradual loss of a large part of the truths.

Kater participates of art exhibitions in Brazil and abroad. Her most recent exhibitions are: Breu, Oscar Niemeyer Museum (Curitiba, Paraná – 2018); Zonas de Gatilho, SIM Galeria (São Paulo, Brazil -2018); Acordo, Palazzo Rossini (Venice, Italy - 2017); Rencontres Internationales Paris - New Cinema and Contemporary Art (Paris, France, 2017); Da banalidade - volume 1, Tomie Ohtake Institute (São Paulo, Brazil - 2016); I Bienal de Assunção (Asuncion, Paraguay - 2015); Como Se Fosse, Caixa Cultural (Brasília, Brazil – 2014); and Frestas - Trienal de Artes, Sesc Sorocaba (Sorocaba, Brazil – 2014). order to get a wide idea about your artistic production and

An interview by Francis L. Quettier we would start this interview with a couple of questions

and Dora S. Tennant womencinemaker@berlin.com 1) Hello Julia and welcome to like to invite our readers to visit

regarding your background. You have a solid formal : we would in

training and you graduated in Photography from the School of Advertising and Marketing - ESPM (Sao Paulo -

Brazil): how did this experience influence your evolution as an artist? In particular, how does your

due to

your Brazilian roots direct the trajectory of your artistic research?

I majored in Pedagogy at the same time I studied photography. I don’t think that my Pedagogy education has directly influenced my artistic work, but it has certainly presented me with some concepts that have enhanced my repertoire; I could talk extensively about this. There are concepts related to the learning process that interest me very much, such as spatio-temporal structuring and body image scheme, the impossibility of destitution or separating one thing from another… In all these processes there’s always the presence of something tangible and, with it, also a completely subjective sphere. I think we can understand a lot from that.

Pedagogy does not change my look on photography. It comes in as a subject matter, an area of interest, and this evokes some questions that linger with me for a while and end up in some of my work. For example, the installation with drawings from children who were in the process of literacy originated from the book

, by

French educator Arno Stern, who criticized the practice of “free drawing on imposed themes” in schools, saying how this is an ambiguous practice as it suggests free production but, at the same time, directs and indicates defined themes. These ambivalences, these contradictions in speech relations interest me very much.

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For this special edition of

we have selected

,

an extremely interesting experimental short film that our readers have already started to get to know in the introductory pages of this article. What has at once captured our attention of your film is the way it draws the viewers through such an immersive experience, by minimalistic still effective our readers through the genesis of

. While walking , would you tell us how did

you develop the initial idea?

was to be featured in a solo exhibition I had scheduled at the Tomie Ohtake Institute along with other work. The exhibition was curated by Paulo Miyada and featured the short film

along with

, fragments from a collection of clouds, trees, suns, and houses drawn by kids at alphabetization stage and then carved onto metal plaques. The collection of plaques highlights the schematic character of “literate design� that is formed when children, compelled to mean something, repeat prefabricated schematic forms.

For the movie

I had this simple idea of an isolated event that could

have taken place in the past but also that could be happening in itself, infinitely. The first image I had was a vacant lot with a rectangle of pitch black tar in the middle. The shooting presents, in a non-linear montage, the semi-artisanal paving process of a rectangle arbitrarily drawn in the middle of a vacant lawn.

I asked the construction workers to do exactly as they would have Elegantly shot,

features stunning cinematography by

done had they been repairing any street. I gave them minimal Guilherme Peres and a keen eye for details: what were your directions because I wanted the film to feel real. The work had to when shooting? In particular, what was be real; they had to make something even if it looked out of your choice about camera and lens? context. In Brazil, streets are repaired in patches using a technique that reminds me of the gardening process. The hose, the watering

Guilherme Peres: We wanted a realistic feel, so we decided to use

can, the dirt. When you take these out of context they tell another

the DSLR aesthetic that is so common in today’s video-

story, showing the ambiguity of the tools and the gestures.

documentary productions. We had a very fancy Nikon lens kit that

gave us different points of view. We worked from 30mm to

field of tall grass brings me to mind the romantic painters and

300mm. It gave us a sense of storytelling having all those

Tarkovsky.

different angles of the actual event. Having lots of mysterious B-roll material helped us to deconstruct the convention time.

A few of our lens were foggy because of the heat. We were constantly wiping them off. At some point we decided to leave it, especially in the wide shots. I like it better now. The misty

Julia has a very personal approach to photography. It is cropped and impersonal. I already was a fan of her work and wanted to at least try to emulate her visual language and see it as moving images.

With its brilliantly structured storytelling, unparalleled

imparts

to the narration, to unveil an

ever-shifting internal struggle. We have particularly appreciated the way your film gives to the viewers the sense they are watching

: would you tell how did you

develop the structure of your film in order to achieve such ? Moreover, how does fuel your creative process to address your choices regarding the stories that you tell in your films?

As I said before, the action [of the film] itself was not rehearsed; on the contrary, we asked the workers to do exactly as they do in their jobs of paving the roads and the streets.

I feel like my day-to-day life feeds me with images and themes. I’m always paying attention at how discourses are structured, the distance between what is said and the sensation it can provoke in each one of us.

The idea for the video

, for example, happened when I watched a

street being paved, and how tar adheres to everything. It seemed like it contaminated everything around it; I remember seeing the work tools, watering can, gloves, everything was tar, they looked like fossils.

And I associated this to discourse, how an idea about something can be sedimented, imprisoned, fossilized. This video shows in images the semi-artisanal process of asphalting wasteland, at the same time as it

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presents an audio speech from someone imprisoned, confined between “right and wrong”.

The acquisition of language was my research object, and

was the

unfolding of that – without referring directly to the therapeutic and/or pedagogical environments in which I routinely had my contact experiences with the extremes of language.

5) Using a combination between camera work,

style and well orchestrated

has drawn heavily from

and we have highly appreciated the way you have created such insightful

between the environment and

performative gestures: how did you select the location and how did it affect your shooting process?

I wanted the space to be a vacant lot with vegetation, and that as this rectangle was being made inside this lot, it emphasized “inside” and “outside”, the frontiers that delimit a territory. And from this bound space it was possible to build a discourse about “right and wrong”.

6) The sound of the ambience is a crucial component of

: how

do you consider the role of sound within your practice and how do you see

?

The soundtrack brings a circular text that overflows in modal adverbial adjuncts (mainly right and wrong), without defining any clear object.

Inspired by the speech of a patient attached to a narrative of righteousness and disarray of something that cannot be directly nominated, the text constructs the speech as an endless cycle, onto which the ideas of progress and evolution cannot be applied.

The editing process was very much guided by the sounds. Guilherme added a sound design that was supposed to reiterate the rhythm of the images and the circular speech.

When recording the voiceovers, we decided that the cadency and the inflection should be dull, monotone to match the anticlimactic feel of the video.

7) Rather than aiming to describe a particular situation or story, your practice deviates from traditional filmmaking to question the nature of perception, with a particular focus on the notion of time, that you seem to relate to in a Bergsonian way. AustrianBritish historian E. Gombrich, writing in , talked about the importance of providing a space for the viewer to project onto, so that they can participate in the illusion: how did you structure the editing process in order to achieve such brilliant results?

Very interesting what you said, the reference you made to Bergson; what is the way in which we have access to our memories? The editing process attempts, in a way, to deconstruct this linearity in

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Women Cinemakers search of another possible association, one which passes through the perception of time rather than to its concatenation.

For us, the repetition of the same action in time exhausts the significance of most gestures, creating a negative space in the memory that can concretely be represented by the shape of a rectangle.

8) We have highly appreciated the way

draws from the

evocative power of words to create

capable of

walking the viewers to the interstitial point where reality and imagination find consistent points of convergence: as an artist particularly interested in the exploration of the struggle between memory and forgetfulness, are you particularly interested in structuring your work in order to urge the viewers to elaborate ? In particular, how open would you like your works to be understood?

The editing process is the closest representation of how thought occurs, with associations, ellipses, closes, durations. In this sense, the idea is that the work is open to different interpretations, and not to be taken literally.

Over the years you regularly participate in exhibitions in Brazil and abroad, in countries like France, USA, Belgium and Portugal, and one of the hallmarks of your practice is the ability to establish with the viewers, who urged to

from a

condition of mere spectatorship. So we would like to pose a

Women Cinemakers question about the nature

.

Do you consider you hope

will

? And what do in the spectatorship?

Yes, I do consider the issue of reception; but, at the same time, I have no intention for the work to be read in a specific way. I believe each one's interpretation can always amplify the meaning of the work itself.

Thanks a lot for your time and for sharing your thoughts, Julia.

Finally, would you like to tell us readers something about your future projects? How do you see your work evolving?

Currently, I’m holding an individual exhibition at the Oscar Niemeyer Museum in Curitiba, Brazil, Image_ 3), and by the end of September my book will come out, which will work like a “collage-book”, filled with my productions, be them transcribed text that have an orality registry, photos, cuttings and paintings, as well as video stills.

Guilherme and I are working on our next project, which is the script of a short film about this non-evolving time, and how actions can develop from this principle.

An interview by Francis L. Quettier and Dora S. Tennant womencinemaker@berlin.com

Women Cinemakers meets

Danielle Georgiou Lives and works in Dallas, Texas, USA

Combining video, dance, and live performance to create a mirror in which to start looking through the self, I incorporate pop culture references and mechanically mediated techniques to explore contemporary feminine gender dynamics and the intensely personal nature of identity.

The resulting growing body of work is organized around the premise of transforming images of the self, and producing unique and individualized portraits that act as a visual marker for my own search for identity.

Influenced by aspects of Diamanda Galás’ performance style—the terror she achieves with her vocal range and the experimental quality of her filmed and public performances—Cindy Sherman’s photography—particularly her notion of the transformative female—Chris Marker’s editing style, Matthew Barney’s avant-garde techniques, and Guy Bourdin’s highly sexual fashion photographs, the mise-en-scénes I creates are basically the performative equivalent of Samuel Beckett on a dinner date with Sarah Silverman.

Both the videos and live performances are love letters: to myself, to my lovers, to you. And they document my own self-discovery of dysfunction. The weight of catastrophic dread is blended in equal measure with female-power and pop, resulting in a darkly comedic performance. With a dash of female spectacle thrown in for good measure—less like Guy Debord, and more like the kitschy, self-reflective music videos of Katy Perry.

Acted out in an ironic form of stand-up comedy and ritual—as lines are repeated over and over in attempt to convince myself of something or to help me become something—the performances beg the question, “will you die from laughing?”

An interview by Francis L. Quettier and Dora S. Tennant womencinemaker@berlin.com

is a captivating dance short film by Dallas based dancer, choreographer and video

artist Danielle Georgiou: exploring the idea of rediscovered confidence and the act of taking control of one's body, this work address the viewers to such heightened and multilayered experience.

Featuring brilliant approach to composition and unconventional cinematography, is a successful attempt to create a brilliant allegory of human condition: we are particularly pleased to introduce our readers to Georgiou's multifaceted and stimulating artistic production.

Hello Danielle and welcome to : we would like to introduce you to our readers with a couple of questions regarding your background. You have a solid formal training and you hold a Ph.D of Arts and Humanities, that you received from the University of Texas, Dallas: how did this experience inform your to address your artistic research?

I have been training in dance my entire life. As a child, Russian Ballet instructors formed my strict awareness of technique and dedication, which kept dance securely in my body as my primary method of expression. From my childhood to now, my training has continued, both as a means of fitness and of education. As a Cypriot-American, dance has always been intrinsic to my understanding of culture, a part of hospitality, entertainment, history, and religion. Perhaps this cultural identity drew me towards dance, or it became a form of self-

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Women Cinemakers understanding. As I found my process of artmaking, in film, photography, and theatre, I felt the ever-present push to incorporate dance.

Approaching my Ph.D., I knew that dance would be present, as I was researching all manner of performance of the 20th Century. In narrowing my focus, I saw Dance Theatre as my perfect target of research. Dance Theatre is a complex medium combining elements from any and all performance styles into beautifully rich compositions. My artmaking is now continually influenced by this practice and by my predecessors in the field. In terms of my film-making, it feels correct to assert the style of Dance Theatre, to continually explore the methods of collaboration and aesthetic.

It's important to mention that you founded ( ), a dance theatre company that works within and we would address our readers to visit in order to get a wider idea about it. How do you consider the collaborative nature of these projects? In particular, can you explain how a work of art demonstrates communication between several creative minds?

I am a firm believer that technique is your foundation, not your identity. I am a dancer, trained in aesthetics and performance, but my art-making is also informed by my life experiences. When I am working with other artists, I am not collaborating with their skills alone. I am working and learning alongside people with their own ego, their own memories, and their own ambition. When I am creating

work with DGDG, it is imperative for each artist to share the ownership. This method gives each artist a home for their passion and investment. I am loyal to this style of creation, as it yields such varied and layered performances.

For this special edition of we have selected , an extremely interesting dance video

that our readers have already started to get to know in the introductory pages of this article and that can be viewed at . What has at once captured our attention your insightful inquiry into is the way it mixes the ordinary and the surreal, inviting the viewers to such a multilayered experience: when walking

our readers through the genesis of , would you tell us how did you develop the initial idea?

I have always quarreled with the relationship between my cultural heritage and my present.

Growing up as the daughter of immigrants, I was very isolated by my experiences. Being one of a handful of my people in Texas, while also

Women Cinemakers wanting to be accepted by those around me, identity was always hard to grasp. This dissonance between expectation and reality have inspired much of my art making—it is my first understanding of disharmony. is not strictly tied to my specific cultural experiences, but rather it stems from my understanding of disharmony. As my brain works so hard to establish order in the chaos of memory and expectation, I feel the surreal high of seeking identity. The weight of anonymity is staggering, especially considering how clearly I see the culture of my parents. In preparation for , I shot what I felt drawn towards, both in nature, and in my own studio. I wanted to peel away at my own biases towards physical vocabulary, and my sensory understanding of decay, isolation, and witchcraft.

play in your process?

We have appreciated the way your approach to dance conveys sense of freedom and reflects rigorous approach to the grammar of body language: how do you consider the relationship between the necessity of scheduling the details of your performative gestures and ?

How much importance does

Sound is perhaps the most powerful tool for a filmmaker. I do not want to simply add score to my visuals. I employ sound to access the nostalgia and experience of the viewer— providing the opportunity for the audience to serve as an active listener. They should not only be witness to visual poetry, but be responsible for consuming the atmosphere. When it comes

I believe both planning and improvisation are both crucial to honesty in art-making. Crafting and curating are the reflection of the intellect and education, and improvisation reflects the artistic impulse, the vulnerable beast striking out to protect itself.

Sound plays an important role in your video and we have appreciated the way the relationship between such spare, minimal audio ambience and your lyrics provides with such an and a bit : how would you consider the role of sound within your practice and how do you see ?

to film, sound is the atmosphere. In regards to sound and movement, there is always a tension of significance. People are always working to connect the dots. This demands that the sound be created carefully, so that it serves the imagination of viewer, not simply their intellect.

Featuring essential and well-orchestrated involves the audience choreography in a dreamlike and heightened visual experience: we have been highly fascinated with the way your film involves the viewers to such multilayered experience and we daresay that you seem to urge your spectatorship to challenge their perceptual categories to create As you have remarked in your artist's statement, : what are you hoping will trigger in the spectatorship? In particular, how much important is for you to address the viewer's imagination in order to elaborate ?

Nature is not my own. Light is not my own. My connection to my culture is barely mine. I would

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Women Cinemakers be foolish to believe that my own consumption of stimuli is more clever or more exact that my viewer. I create work that speaks to my viewer, as it speaks to myself: honestly. I speak with love because I know my own burdens. My pieces reflect the details and pain hidden in all of our pasts.

Many artists express the ideas that they explore through representations of the body and by using their own bodies in their creative processes.

German visual artist Gerhard Richter once underlined that " ": how do you consider the relation between of the ideas you aim to communicate and of creating your artworks?

I agree with this perspective. I believe that existence, death, life, isolation, bliss, are all unavoidable, and it is imperative to allow them access to our bodies. As artists, we take on the weight of our experiences as humans, and we look at ourselves in the mirror of our medium.

Mexican artist Gabriel Orozco once stated, "

". As a cross disciplinary artist interested in social and psychological issues, what could be in your in our unstable, opinion everchanging contemporary age? Does your artistic research respond to cultural moment?

I believe that art-making should be constant, honest, and assertive. What I have learned about the impact of the world on my art is that I have no right to fear whether or not I will be understood.

We are artists because of our need, and our commitment. Society will not soon cease the mistreatment of its inhabitants, and we ought never end the protest of this false nature we have created. Particularly, I respond to the of the movement. I believe that sexuality is being constantly re-invented, and we must stay aware with our history to understand our present.

Before leaving this conversation we want to catch this occasion to ask you to express your view on the future of women in contemporary art scene. For more than half a century women have been discouraged from producing something ' ', however in the last

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Women Cinemakers decades there are signs that something is changing. How would you describe your personal experience as an unconventional artist? And what's your view on the future of women in this field?

Women are generally told to “sit down and look pretty,” to not make waves, and to always smile and agree. But being a female artist in a world that needs unconventionalism and desperately desires “the other” to step forward and up, is exciting. Right now, we are experiencing waves of honesty. If we desire this momentum to continue, we must strive to be continuously honest, even when it feels risky, even when it feels rude, even when it feels like it might endanger our “cool.” This is how we will learn what kind of artists we are. Just keep working. Just keep doing.

Women have been working tirelessly to carve out space for their voices and work, and to be able to contribute to this wave of feminist art is an honor. More than an honor, it is what I have to do. It’s necessary.

And to be able to inspire others to collaborate and combine ideas from dance,

theatre, literature, science, and technology, is a legacy I’m proud to be a part of.

Thanks a lot for your time and for sharing your thoughts, Danielle. Finally, would you like to tell us readers something about your future projects? How do you see your work evolving?

I’ll be presenting a series of live performances throughout Texas for the rest of the year, and “Salt Bone” will be screened in September 2018 at Arts Triangle—a dance film festival for experimental dance works. I am also working as an actor in the world premiere of Len Jenkin’s new play, at Undermain Theatre in Dallas, Texas, as well , the musical, at as choreographing Dallas’ Theater Three.

I see myself finding more collaborators and learning from my limits to become a more multi-faceted artist.

Women Cinemakers meets

Anti-Cool Lives and works in Liverpool, United Kingdom

Anti-cool is an interdisciplinary artist/filmmaker based in Liverpool, UK, originally from Japan, working in the field of performance art, installation and film. Direct interaction with people in different social/cultural backgrounds is one of the most important elements of the artist’s work. There are two main themes of her artistic practice, social systems and how peoples’ tendencies are influenced by our globalised society.

In the past, Anti-cool made a 72 min film about Esperanto and the speakers of the language. Esperanto is a constructed interlanguage created entirely by one person. The language does not belong to any country or ethnicity. Some people even say it is the easiest language to learn. She committed to an experiment in which she tried to master the language in 60 days. The documentation of this learning process was the start of her career as a filmmaker. Esperanto aims to break down hierarchies and borders in our globalised society. In keeping with the film’s egalitarian themes, in 2017, a Global Screening Day was held to celebrate the first world wide launch of the film. On this day, within a 24 hour period, local time, people from anywhere in the world could access the film in their homes or local cinema venues.

People from 16 venues in 5 different countries (UK, Japan, Canada, Australia and Brazil) watched the film together.

An interview by Francis L. Quettier and Dora S. Tennant womencinemaker@berlin.com

Echo Tides is a stimulating experimental video by Japanese Liverpool based interdisciplinary artist and filmmaker Anti-cool. Her film explores her ongoing fascination with the sea and the small communities who’s lives are dependent on it: inquiring into the ubiquitous

relationship between the notion of memory and direct experience, Echo Tides initiates the viewers into heightened visual and sound experience capable of encouraging a cross-pollination of the spectatorship.

Featuring balanced combination between cinematography and sound, Anti-cool's work speaks of the elusive bond between the inner world and external reality, to address the viewer to question their perceptual categories. We are particularly pleased to

introduce our readers to her captivating and multifaceted artistic production.

Hello Anti-cool and welcome to WomenCinemakers: we would like to introduce you to our readers with a couple of questions regarding your background. Are there any experiences that particularly inform your current practice?

Moreover, how does the relationship between your cultural substratum due to your Japanese roots and your current life in the United Kingdom inform your approach to art making?

Thank you for having me.

My practice contains multiple art forms such as performance art, installation and film. Among these, performance art had been my main practice for over 15 years. The things I have experimented with through this form were physical/mental limitations, actions responding to our consumer society and audience interactive robotics. It has always been vital for me to have a strong physical and factual element in my artwork. I think that comes from my background as a performance artist. In the past few years my interest has shifted to filmmaking and the exploration of other peoples’ stories that have similarities to my own life experiences.

I’m not particularly aware of my ethnic origin when it comes to art-making. It’s probably because neither do I try to explore my inherited self-identity as a Japanese through my art, nor do I use particular materials or skills which are derived from Japan. My goal is to produce artwork which has the potential to be valid beyond cultural borders You are a versatile artist and your practice is marked out with a captivating interdisciplinary approach that allows you to range from performance art to installation and film. Before starting to elaborate about your artistic production, we would invite to our readers to visit https://www.plenarondo.com in

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Women Cinemakers order to get a synoptic idea about your artistic production: in the meantime, would you tell us what draws you to such a captivating interdisciplinary approach?

First of all, starting out as a performance artist wasn’t my intention at all. One of my old classmates at high school asked me to perform with her at the festival called NIPAF in Tokyo, 2000. To be honest, I didn’t know anything about such a raw, physical and direct form of art. Later, I had the opportunity to create sight-specific installations and present work in gallery displays. I didn’t study art at university until 10 years after having made my first live performance, so I simply followed my instinct and that led me to use the media and tools available at the exhibition sites, this included myself.

I probably have quite a high level of curiosity about people whom I have not yet encountered, different cultures and their different ways of thinking. When I was a child, I read an article that stated that every culture on the earth has at least one feature that is special and unique to itself. That story stirred up a feeling of awe in me and made me want to explore this idea further. I still have the same belief and curiosity now. In order to understand the uniqueness of individual cultures, you have to actually physically engage with them and participate. Therefore, I research, travel and spend time with the groups and communities I work with in order to learn about them first hand. Its during this period of exploration that certain appropriate media come to mind, and from that point I use whatever I feel is the best media/tool to make work with and about those communities and places. After having immersed myself in such processes for many years I eventually hope to become a human being without any sense of borders and make work that embodies such an idea; work that aspires to a total personal and cultural freedom.

For this special edition of WomenCinemakers we have selected

, a captivating experimental video that our readers have already started to get to know in the introductory pages of this article. What has at once captured our attention of your insightful inquiry into the notion of memory and the elusive, still ubiquitous relationship between memory and experience, is the way your work provides the viewers with the elusive bond between the real and the imagined, combined with such an intense visual experience, enhanced by a sapient cinematography. While walking our readers through the genesis of , would you tell what drew you to focus on this theme?

The production of Echo Tides didn’t commence with a fixed idea or a theme. I was commissioned to produce a film responding to the area of Folkestone, UK, to be presented at the exhibition entitled “Leaving Language In A Japanese Limousine”. I was not familiar with Folkestone, in fact I had never been there, so I made an initial reconnaissance visit to work out some locations etc.

However, when I was there, I was specifically drawn to Folkestone’s fishing community. My original plan for the film was to create a short documentary, a portrait of the local fishermen.

However, I couldn’t get permission to be on board the boats for filming which I thought would be essential imagery to complete the project.

During the month following my initial visit, I contacted all the people I could think of in the region, who might help me gain access to the boats. I was pretty obsessed with filming the fishermen out at sea without really consciously knowing the reason. However, gradually I recalled my old childhood memories from the fishing town where I grew up: My grandfather used to mend nets in his living room, and grow the nails of his little fingers very long to use as a tool, my parents home sat right in front of the sea, my favourite puffer fish and raw fish dishes, the

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Women Cinemakers feeling of dragging a gill net full of fish on to the beach, the neighbour who lost his life out at sea. It all came back with a great sense of nostalgia. An emotion that can be both positive and negative regards the creative process, but one that offers a rich language for film.

After I realised I would not get permission to make the film I wanted to, adding performances into the film came as a plan B. The filming dates were already fixed based on the deadline and the availability of my camera staff. The intention of plan B was to draw on my previous work as a performance artist and make a series of performance actions in the landscapes. Recalling my old memories, I wanted to express both my own personal awe for the work those communities undertake and also explore my own deep-rooted memories of the sea. Rather than simply document a series of performances I decided to create a choreographed film work that made reference to both Folkestone, the new landscapes it offered and my own memories. is a choreographed film work that made reference to both the Folkestone area and your own memories about where you grew up. Your artistic research into the echoes of a past life carried into a a different yet similar present reminds us of notions of entaglement in contemporary Cyberpunk imagery. To emphasize the need of a bond between creative process and direct experience, British artist Chris Ofili once stated that "creativity's to do with what's happening around you". How would you consider the relationship between direct interaction with other people and your creative process?

For my artistic practice, direct interaction with other people especially from different social/cultural backgrounds is one of the most important elements. Through dialogue with collaborators and local people, I can gradually understand their identities,

beliefs, systems and the rules in which they’re living. The process of making is probably the most important part of my work. Such experiences might not be shown in the actual artwork, however, the skills I had to develop and the challenges I got through in making the work not only influence that work but also carry on into the next. I believe the actual experiences of engaging and working with others, often with the outcome unknown, is the real reason why I make artwork. That’s where the energy is.

A couple of examples of what I’m talking about are as follows: In 2005, I delivered a project titled Ideal Foreigner Living in Vienna. Within this project I took on the jobs undertaken by those of many social strates, including, illegal immingrants. The jobs I worked in included kebab shop assistant, newspaper seller and street begging. For each job, I was apprenticed to a local foreign worker and worked a whole day in their position. The whole process was documented.

Another video piece entitled Lone Orchestra (2006-2009) is an attempt to imitate local bands’ performances in Montreal, Glasgow, Belfast and Jacmel (Haiti); trying to master every different role from vocals to instruments in a short amount of time (usually 3 weeks). The result was that multiple copies of me jammed together in place of the original members. Through copying and studying the band members’ personas, I tried to explore the local cultures from which they are formed.

You once produced a film about Esperanto, that is a concrete attempt to break down hierarchies and borders in our globalised society: your artist's practice is centered on the theme of social systems and you are particulary interested into how peoples’ tendencies are affected by our globalised society. Mexican artist Gabriel Orozco once stated, "the artist’s role differs depending on which part of the world you’re in. It depends on the political system you’re living under". How do you consider the relationship between an

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Women Cinemakers artist's creative process and social scenario? What could be in your opinion the role of artists in our everchanging, unstable contemporary societies?

To me it is essential to be aware of the political systems of where you live and where you make work. At the moment my focus is on the UK where I currently live and the issues of immigration that are prevalent at the current time. I’m always concerned that a lack of understanding of what’s going on in the world at the moment might limit the possibilities of me as an artist. Without such notions, I cannot create the type of artwork I want, and that is artwork that very clearly and directly reflects the world surrounds us. One of my aims in the creation of work is the exploration of other peoples’ stories and the sharing of such stories with other people. In doing so the artwork becomes a way of breaking down externally and politically imposed borders and allows people who have never met to realise the similarities of human experience no matter where we are.

One example is the film you mentioned, Plena Rondo, a film about Esperanto in which I undertook an experiment to master this new language in 60 days using only free learning tools and simultaneously self documented the process. Within the film I introduce many speakers of the language from vastly different parts of the world. Many of those, despite their different backgrounds, have similar political, philosophical and personal beliefs and they have developed a social/linguistic and political movement through the language. In order to understand this I had to learn the language and go and meet these people. This direct experience helps me understand the true nature of the language and the speakers of Esperanto, whilst at the same time the audience to follow my journey as they themselves are informed about Esperanto and it’s wider implications.

My next film will explore the affairs of migrants in the UK. I think my role as an artist is to undertake projects that explore difficult subjects that are often pushed to one side during everyday life and present them to a wider audience. Throughout this process I believe it is essential to keep exploring new approaches and styles of expressions.

We daresay that in the ambience sound is equally important as images and we highly appreciated the synergy between the stunning landscape cinematography and the incessant rhythm of the ambience. How did you structure the relationship between sound and the flow of images in your film? In particular, did you aim to suggest such an uncanny sensation in the viewer, by combining images rich with environmental connotations and such persistent audio commentary?

When I was walking down to the seafront, I could hear the continuous rattling noise of tractors. They were doing large-scale regeneration work, maintaining the pebble beach. During my stay on both the initial visit and for the filming, the noise was constant and I found it was quite disturbing. However, I wanted to use it as a background sound because it creates an interesting contrast to the imagery and adds another layer of meaning to the images, such as, a small fishing community confronted by the development of mechanical industry.

The other sound I used is the repetitive names of sea life you can find in Folkestone, for example, crabs, lobsters, whelks, cockles and turbots. The idea came when I bumped into a family who was playing with their voices to create echoes in the cliff-side forest. Instantly, I got an idea to mix the sound of repetitive names (crabs, crabs, crabs‌.) with the landscapes and performances. The sound was recorded in the same forests under the cliff.

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During my editing process, I played with both imagery and sound materials which were all quite fragmented. I did not have any clear vision, but I wanted to make something experimental and completely different from what I explored in my first film Plena Rondo. I edited the footage first and later I added the background sound. Initially the constant repetition of single words like crabs, crabs, crabs... sounded childlike and didn’t really mean anything in relation to the images. But when I edited the recorded sound to make it ceremonious, sometimes unearthly and ominous with effects, it transformed this simple childish repetition into an elemental force, the voice of the landscape evoking an unclear past, a threatened present and unknown future. The sound in the film becomes an image that you’re aware of but cannot see.

I wasn’t sure of the final outcome, it all happened after this period of experimentation. Unlike most filmmaking, this film project didn’t start from a script or a story, rather it was made in response to, and interaction with the landscapes and the fishing community in Folkestone as those things happened. I documented the local fishing community and then responded to the site and the fishermen with performances using my body. My response contains a quiet but strong physicality that came out of my respect for the landscape and the fishing communities in both Folkestone and my home town.

We have appreciated your balanced cinematography: what were your aesthetic decisions when shooting? In particular, what was your choice for camera and lens?

Aesthetically, one of my main influences is Frederick Wiseman. I aim to use a similar style even though my films and his are completely different: close ups, capturing vulnerable emotions shot in an observational style, without judgement or prejudice.

Personally, I have been experimenting with filming and editing techniques and developed a style which I have called IBL

(Interactive Body Landscape). IBL consists of a human body responding to a natural environment, shot in an interactive unpredictable way, with the hope of evoking similar sensations within the audience.

The camera I used for the film was a Blackmagic Cinema Camera 2.5k. At that time I didn’t own any lenses myself. Therefore, I borrowed two Nikon lenses, 70-300mm f/4-5.6G from the local university and 18-135MM f/3.5-5.6G from my camera staff. also While questioning the theme of memory, requires the viewers to question the nature of their perceptual categories: how do you consider the relationship between perceptual reality and the realm of imagination? Moreover, how important is it for you to trigger the viewer's perceptual parameters in order to address them to elaborate personal associations?

I wanted to make this film an immersive experience, almost as if the viewer is standing on the pebble beach and witnessing my actions.

I also think that the sound element of this film is very important in triggering how the images are received but also in shaping how the viewer interprets the whole film. The sound creates the uncanny element in this work.

The uncanny sounds also draw the viewer into their own realm of imagination and images which may be totally different from what they are looking at, so in that sense I suppose the film does alter the viewers perception. However, this came about through experimentation and was not one of my initial aims with the film.

Initially some styles or filming techniques for the landscapes and performances were in my head but these were often altered and re-addressed as the film was shot. The sections in which I performed on the beach were directed and shot by Tim Freeman. I did around three performances at each location and each time he

interview

Women Cinemakers

Women Cinemakers

A still from A still from

Women Cinemakers

A still from

interview

Women Cinemakers tried a different technique to try and capture the emotive nature of the action and its relationship to the landscape and the wider themes of the film. It was pretty much all improvisation. Altering the style of shooting at different points in the film disturbs the way the film is read and ultimately how the viewer perceives what is taking place.

Thanks a lot for your time and for sharing your thoughts, Anti-cool. Finally, would you like to tell us readers something about your future projects? How do you see your work evolving?

It’s a pleasure.

The new film which is in post-production at the moment explores the themes of borders, human rights and families. Over the last one year I have been collecting the stories of several British families and couples, separated or disrupted by current UK immigration policies. The focus will be on contents of the stories and each character. The work has a strong factual element, but I want to create something that differs from a common documentary style. The possible outcome would be a video installation using synchronized video playback on multiple screens.

My first film, Plena Rondo and Echo Tides differ considerably and the third will be different as well because I don’t like to repeat what I have done. My current focus is the completion of my third film but my long-term plan is to write a script and produce a narrative-based film to experience and explore controlled image making. This will happen much later, after I have sufficiently explored the world of documentary and experimental film as a maker

An interview by Francis L. Quettier and Dora S. Tennant womencinemaker@berlin.com