Make Room for Joy, an Interview

KIM CARSON INTERVIEWS VANESSA JOY WALKER, AUTHOR OF MAKE ROOM FOR JOY

My conversation today is with Vanessa Joy Walker. She is the author of “Make Room For Joy: Choose Hope, Discover Purpose, and Cultivate Joy in the Middle of Life’s Most Complicated Seasons.”

KIM CARSON: Thanks so much for talking with me today. You have had some journey; I’d love for you to share a little bit with me. VANESSA JOY WALKER: Yeah, I have had a journey. The snapshot would be that I was abandoned when I was born, adopted; I’ve experienced a lot of crisis and betrayal, betrayal by men, betrayal by my own body. I’ve had cancer twice, dealt with infertility, surrogacy and divorce. And, you know, I always say that my life is a little bit, like a Monday night Lifetime movie. Thankfully it hasn’t ended yet, so you know that’s a good thing.

KC: Yes, as long as you have breath, right! The title of your book is

“Make Room For Joy,” so what do you mean by making room for joy? How do you go through all of that and find joy? VJW: Yeah, that’s a really great question, and it’s a question my mom actually asked me. “Make Room For Joy.” What does that mean?

And the point of it is not to think about how you have joy after the crisis, right? It’s about how you make room for joy in the middle of the crisis, whatever is going on in your life right now? And when I was in the middle of my own crises, whatever it was, what I realized was there wasn’t that much to be happy about. I was searching to be happy, but it is pretty hard to be happy when your husband has left you, and you’ve been diagnosed with cancer, and your career is in the toilet. It’s hard to wake up and be like, I’m really happy today.

That was a shift for me. For me, it was a moment in time where I realized that I had to find something else and joy was the answer for me. And what I realized through my own journey is that joy is something that we can make room for in the middle of any circumstance. And sometimes that means we have to pause to notice it, and sometimes that means we need to empty ourselves out of fear or bitterness so that we can fill ourselves up with joy.

Joy is complicated. KC: Yeah, I have a problem with the word happiness. I mean, happiness, for me it’s so elusive. You choose the word “joy;” for me, I just want to have peace. I want to have peace wherever I’m at. Happiness? Forget happiness. You even say our world is kind of fixated on it, but happiness is fleeting. VJW: Yeah, happiness is fleeting and, you know, I’m careful in the book too, because I do get a little bit down on happiness in the book, but I’m also careful to say there’s nothing wrong with happiness. I think it’s great. I love hamburgers. Sorry for the vegetarians out there. But I love a hamburger, and hamburgers make me really happy when they’re juicy and dripping down my face. But

I finish the hamburger, and the happiness has an expiration date; joy is ongoing. The more you get it, the more you have of it.

The more you give joy away, the more you have of it. Joy is something that comes from within, and happiness is an external stimulus. And so I agree with you. I think the idea of peace is so important that I talk about that in the book as well? Because when

I describe joy, it’s different every day. Sometimes joy is quiet.

Sometimes it’s loud, and sometimes joy is finding that pocket of peace in the middle of a difficult situation. Joy is complicated. KC: I think happiness comes with an expectation. Like you’re looking for something that’s going to make you happy, there’s an expectation; where joy comes from, the pure essence of being complete and at peace wherever you are at this time in life. What do you think the difference is between happiness and joy? VJW: Yeah, you know that’s a really great point that you just made.

That idea of seeking happiness because what it does is it puts us in the future. Thinking about the next moment doesn’t allow us to be in the present. If you think of every moment as a destination, you’re not in the present, and it’s hard to enjoy peace. And so, for me, the difference between happiness and joy is that happiness is something that has an expiration date. Happiness is something that happens to us. Joy is something that is all around us and in us, and we can access it at any time if we are willing and open to finding it. KC: I’ve heard you say there’s a connection between joy and pain. Really?

How can that be?

understood suffering or pain. I’m a person of faith, and you know, that plays into everything that I think about. It’s interesting when I think about joy because I attach a lot of it to my faith. Still, I also connect it to this idea of really being able to see the beauty in the pain because when you experience pain, you can recognize pain in other people. There’s nothing more joyful for me to be able to see the worst thing that’s happened to me, the ugliest, nastiest thing, being transformed into a tool that can be used to encourage someone else.

That’s the human experience, right. KC: Yes, I couldn’t agree with you more. When

I was a little kid, I went through some stuff, and after years of therapy, I remember soul searching and asking myself, what did you learn from all of that? I learned that I was a strong little kid to be able to get through all of that and emerge semi-normal and then later in life going through colon cancer.

People have asked, have you ever asked yourself, why me? I never asked myself, why me. Because why not me? I wouldn’t trade that experience either because colon cancer gave me the opportunity to put things in their place in my life, a place of importance. It forever changed me. You even have the thing in your book where you can evaluate your own level of joy at any given moment. I think you call it joy coaching. So how would I do that?

VJW: First, I want to just pause and say colon cancer survivor! I always have to stop and acknowledge that because that is a journey.

That’s the connection we have. That concept came up in my life when I first started thinking about the differences between happiness and joy.

I was in the middle of chemotherapy, and

I was in the middle of a nasty divorce, and my life was just a mess. And what I realized was that I thought joy was not attainable. I was thinking of joy as this extra jubilant loud thing. And what I realized is that I had to get real with joy, and to get real with joy, I needed to get real with a bunch of other stuff.

Like I needed to get real with my suffering,

I needed to get real with myself. I needed to get real with my God, and I needed to do it daily because I couldn’t figure out how to increase my joy quotient unless I was able to take a moment and practice the pause. And what I mean by that is just to take a moment, and this is not like meditating for 5 hours in the morning. Not that it’s a bad thing if that’s your thing. But for me, this was a moment to evaluate where I was. So, I would say to myself: Okay, where am I today? How am I feeling? I’m going to get in touch with my feelings right now. I don’t like feeling angry, bitter, and fearful. Because if you think about it, we are this beautiful silo, right? And there are all of these things filling us up. If we are filled with fear, bitterness, and anxiety, even if we add joy to the top of that, it’s just going to spill out. Sometimes we have to take things out, and that process can be uncomfortable. So every day, I would sit, and I would evaluate. I would encourage you or anyone else, no matter what you’re going through, and it could be in the best time of your life or the worst time in your life. It doesn’t matter. Think about it. How am I feeling today? If I was to describe joy today, what would it be? Do I feel like I have a lot of that? Do I want more of that?

And then I would ask myself: What is the obstacle? What is it that is standing between me and the joy that I want for today? Today joy might be a little bit of peace. Sometimes the joy we want for the day is big and beautiful. Sometimes the joy we want for today is quiet and calm, and owning that and not judging it. It’s so easy in this life to just stay focused on whatever is in front of us, but we have to just shift ourselves towards gratitude.

Joy is ongoing. The more you get it, the more you have of it. The more you give it away, the more you have of it. Joy is something that comes from within.”

I like to write down the five things that I’m grateful for, and that’s fine if you’re doing it

intentionally, but I would challenge people to really think about making room for gratitude instead of checking it off your list. So as I would evaluate my joy portion,

I also make room for gratitude. I say no matter what’s going on in my life today, I feel grateful for _____ right now. Seriously, it could be the coffee in my cup. There’s no judgment here. And then I take a moment to say I have access to joy, and I’m going to consciously choose to empty myself out just a little bit to make room for joy. KC: I have a pastor friend who said either you’re walking in faith or you’re walking in fear, but you can’t be doing both at the same time. Once I became aware of where I was, I realized the faith walk was way more joyful than the fear walk.

VJW: We could talk for hours. I’ll have to come back. I’ll have another cup of joy. KC: Me too!

Learn more at www.VanessaJoyWalker.com

Kim Carson

Kim is an Author/Podcast/TV/ Internet personality. Watch and listen for her on WGVU TV’s Kalamazoo Lively Arts & J Schwanke’s Life In Bloom. Learn more at kimcarson.online & fb.com/kimcarson