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Answering Answering Islam's Article "On The Philosophical Necessity of the Trinity Based On The Attributes Of God" The Divine Attributes are a subject of deep philosophical and theological research. In general there are two basic types of Attributes. 1] Absolute Attributes 2] Relative Attributes. Absolute Attributes are often defined as follow:=
Those attributes of God which he has in himself, which can be exercised apart from his relationship to his creation, are referred to as his absolute attributes. Aseity, Simplicity, Infinity, Immensity, Eternity, immutable/Unchangeableness,Uniqueness,Holiness,Greatness,Obliquity ,Perfection. Relative Attributes of God. Relative Attributes Of God are defined as follow:
Relative attributes of God are those attributes which God exercises as concerns his Creations. Example: Mercy,Justice, Forgiveness, Generosity ,Kindness, Providence ,Wrath etcetera. Moral Attributes are included in them as well.
Unfortunately a large number of scholars have included the Divine Attributes like Omniscience, Omnipotence, Divine Will in the category of Relative Attributes Of Deity. But they are very different from the Attributes like Mercy, Justice etc. So in such discussion one must constitute a separate case for them.
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As for us we generally Include Omniscience , Omnipotence, and Omni Will (Omnivalent /Omni-Intender) in the First Category and subdivide the first category in to two. 1] Negative Attributes like Infinity and Immutability. 2] Positive Attributes . The Positive Attributes of this kind are further Divided into Pure [Abslolute Intransitive (Lamimah)] and Partially Relative Absolute [Absolute but with Relations or Absolute Transitive (M-t�-diah)] Attributes. The terms Absolute Intransitive Attributes and Absolute Transitive Attributes may sound more convenient for the readers and the critics alike ] . Pure Attributes [Absolute without Relations] are like Aseity, Self Existence. Partially Relative Absolute Attributes [Absolute with Relations ] as Omniscience and Omnipotence. Relative Attributes are like Mercy, Forgiveness etc. Now we are in a position that we may convey our message to those who some how have made an incorrect objection . It must be noted that if some one insist that Omnipotence etc. are Relative Attributes then still they are different from Mercy etc. In this case we shall divide the Relative Attributres into two subdivisions. The basic discussion is still the same. [1] One may consider the two basic types of classifications of Divine Attributes. [ 2]
Inspite of all greatness one may ascribe to Augustine ,he was a human being and not infallible. He did commit a mistake when he began to argue from the simple verse in NT, Which says :God is Love. Actually Augustine analogues Divine Love and the Human Love. Divine Love is a Relative Attribute of God and it must be different from human love. It is not impossible for God to Love His own Self and His Own Essence. It may appear impossible to a person who accept Augustine ‘s reason . Augustine was a human and human reason cannot comprehend God, it can, however, acquire a knowledge not only of His existence, but also of some of His attributes. So this is the case with Augustine. He thought that as a Human Being cannot love His/Her Own Self and Essence, God Cannot love His Divine Self and His Divine Essence/Nature and Nature of His Essence. In human Love is not perfect and if an imperfect Created Rarional Suppositum Loves It Self it is either an Imperfect love or it is Egoism and not love. But the Self of the Lover excludes the Love of the lover due to finiteness and Imperfection of the Finite Lover and Finiteness of the Imperfect Love. God in Infinitely Loveable and Perfectly Lovely. So It is Not impossible for God to Love Its own self with out implying any Hypostase. Just like God knoweth His Self perfectly; He Loveth His Self Perfectly , Just like God knoweth all things outside Himself, He Loveth Good out of Himself. Just like Divine Omniscience is infinite like His being His Love is infinite.. Just like God Knoweth Himself and 2
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eternally affirms Himself God Loveth Himself . Just like Eternal and Unchangeable affirmation of God Himself constituteth truth in itself, Eternal Love Constituteth in itself. Divine Love Loveth It Self in itself. Similar to the belief Divine Knowledge Knoweth It Self in Itself. God loves Himself just like God Knoweth Himself, as He is; He loves all other beings in so far as they are good, and because they come from Him. One may make a distinction at this stage that Divine Omniscience is more general in the sense that God Knoweth both Good and the Evil but God Doeth not Love Evil. He Loveth Good. How ever in a sense God loves all existing things since he is their Creator. So it must be noted that the Augustinian argument is not convincing. He took the verse from NT yet made a very incorrect argument from it. So the incorrectness can only be ascribed to Augustine the father of the fallacy and not to the Biblical Verse. Now we come to the argument of Answering Islam which is nothing but a modified reproduction of Augustinian argument. For any event of "love" we do need the subject who loves, we need an object which is loved, and we need an expression of this love in some way, i.e. an interaction between the first two. This may be true for the imperfect love that it requires to subjects Separate or Different Subjects. But this is not the requirement in the case of Perfect Love. Both the subject may be one and the same in the cases of Perfect Love and God. What we find in the Dogma of Trinity is the Divine relations are the Divine Hypostases. , Divine Hypostases are none other than Divine Relations. Eg The Father is the Divine Paternity, the Son /Word the Divine Filiation, the Holy Spirit the Divine Procession. These relations are not accidents.Since Whatever is in God must needs be subsistent. So why cannot the same be said in the Divine case of Love that Love Of God is God Himself. God’s Love Loveth Itself. As it is often said that God is the Supreme Substance , transcending the divisions of the Aristotelean categories. Hence, at one and the same time God is both substance and relations why it seems impossible to Augustinian minded people to say that God is Both Essence/Nature and Attribute transcending Aristotelian Catogaries Augustinian conditions of Love both at the same time. Yes we may need two subjects but GOD Doeth Not Need. As the human love and love of Created Rational Supposita are imperfect then there respective selves may exclude their love or their imperfect love of their respective selves may be termed as Egotism etc. But this cannot be claimed for the Supreme Perfect Love , which is pure love it itself. In the Case of Love Of God it is Love in itself and Love Loveth It Self in Itself. 3
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Why the objection is often made that that to love one’s own self is Egoness or Egoism or Egotism and not love. The only reason is because the argumentator confused the Relative Love and the Absolute Love. Alove that Loveth itself in itself,which is Perfect cannot be analogue with Loves which due to their imperfectness require two separate /Distinct Subjects If the Love Of God for His Own Essence/Self would have been relative then even God may required to Separate and Distinct Subjects. But it is not the case. The Love is Not Relative But Absolute. At this stage if some one says that Divine Love for Creation is Relative, then one may response that if so even then the Divine Love For Divine Self is ABSPOLUTE WHICH DO NOT REQUIRE TWO DISTINCT SUBJECTS. But suppose that it is correct then what? Father cannot love Himself. Son/Word cannot love Himself. Holy Ghost cannot love Himself. Godhead cannot love Itself. Father Cannot Love Godhead.3 Triune God or God the Trinity cannot Love Himself. Triune God Cannot love any one of the Hypostasis. Last in this discussion Godhead cannot love God the Trinity etc. If so then one may say God cannot and does not love Himself. In this case we shall response that If Father Does not love Himself then it cannot be said that Father hates it self. So it will be said that Neither Father Love Himself nor Hates himself. So Christians and Muslims are once again even and no one of the two is odd. Now to discuss about the Vese which says God is Love. In the case the verse does not say God was Eternally Love but He is love at the time this sentence was spoken.
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5 Just likewGod became man without ceasing to be God [in Trinitarian Theology] likewise the same can be the answer that God became Love with out ceasing to be God [ CONTER ANSWER].
Now, how can God BE Love if he was solitary in "unitary aloneness" from eternity past? None of the attributes of God are dependent on his creation. If God could only start loving after he had created us then his attribute of love would be dependent on us. He would not be self-sufficient in his attributes. But if he is unitary as Muslims believe, then love necessarily cannot be an attribute of his [nor can justice or mercy or any other relational attribute] because he is not in any relationship for eternity before he creates. This is totally a misconception. Ask any good Christian, Was God God in Eternity, and he/she shall say Yes He Was. But to be God it requires three things. 1] One to which the term God Is Predicated. 2] One to whom /which there is a God of. 3] The relation of Godhood or Godship or Divinity between the two. Eg God of Abraham. But if There is no one except God and Hypostases in the Godhead Of God then of what trhing God was the God of?? Was the First Hypostasis the God of the Second Hypostasis. Was the First Hypostasis the God of “God the Trinity” ??? Was the second Hypostasis God of the Godhead? Is/Was Son the God Of Father??? No Christian is likely to answer in Affirmative. For Example according to Greek Orthodox Son/Word is True God [ the Second Per Se Subsistent Hypostasis] from True God [ The First Per Se Subsistent Hypostasis]. Not that the First Perse Subsistent Hypostasis in the Divine Ousia/Essence is the God Of The Second Hypostasis if the Trinitical Dogmas are correct.. Note. So these questions can be answered in negative and not in affirmative mood on trinitical level. So If to be God does not require two Subjects how can it be said that To be Love or Love requires two subject. Last not the least it may be said If Love require two subjects then they must not be in one Essence since they require two subject each of a separate Essence or Nature. To Love some thing in one’s own Essence/Nature is nothing but a type of Egotism . If to Love one’s own Essence is Egotism/Egoism , then to love some thing in one’s one Essence is also Egoism/ Egotism. 5
6 So those who argue so accept the very idea which they reject. This is a fallacy to many IF NOT TO few.
It is hoped that our friends must have understood the point that Great Augustine was not infallible and he did commit an Error while arguing from a verse of NT. Not e this is written on request of a friend so it is written in haste. A detail discussion may be presented latter. It is a Proto version yet it shall do its job Inshaa ‘Allah. ===================================================================================== ===================================================================================== (1 ) In this case the Relative Attributes may be divided in to two. (a) Partially Relative Attributes. (b) Pure Relative Attributes. Moral Attributes are included in Pure Relative Attributes. So in this case the Attributes like Omniscience and omnipotence are included in Partially Relative Attributes of DEITY and Attributes like Mercy ,Justice etc are included in Pure Relative Attributes of Deity.
(2) So in a nut shell there are two basic types of Classifications of Divine Attributes. First Type Of Classification is as a follows Basic Division 1] Absolute Attributes 2] Relative Attributes. Absolute Attributes may be Divided into two Sub Types.
1.1] Negative Absolute Attributes e.g – INFINITY, ETERNITY, IMMUTABILITY, SIMPLICITY, AND IMMENSITY.
1.2 ] Positive Absolute Attributes . Examples may be seen by the readers in its sib divisions. Positive Absolute Attributes may be sub divided into two Sub Types. 6
7 1.21] Intransitive Positive Absolute Attributes These Attributes are not relatable . Example ASEITY Aseity is not a negative Attribute
Since Aseity is an attribute by which Deity is of Himself or from Himself [Bi Nafsihi , Huviah, La Hu: ‘Illa Hu:]. It is the Basic Attribute Like Divine Existence [Vuju:d]. So it is Positive . It is impossible to suggest that an Attribute by which Deity is of HimSelf is Negative or Non Positive.
1.22] Transitive Positive Absolute Attributes. These are those Absolute Attributes which do not require the existence of other terms for their existence yet their Relations with are Per Se Possible or Per Se Contingent. Their Negations and Opposites are Per Se Absurd and Absolute Absurd. They are not in Divine Omnipotence. Eg Omnipotence, Omniscience ,Omni-Valence .
The Relative Attributes of Deity may be subdivided as follow: 2.1] Perpetual Attributes [Sempiternal Relative Attributes Of Deity] [Also Sempiternal Relative Attributes. A Sempiternal Relative Attribute may be defined as that Relative Attribute Of Deity which is everlasting, that is having infinite temporal duration; as opposed to eternal, outside time and thus lacking temporal duration while eternal is existing outside time; as opposed to sempiternal, existing within time but everlastingly. Examples of these Attributes are Justice, Truth in Assertive and Negative Sentences Of Deity etc.
Deity never Excerciseth their Opposite Attributes like Injustice ,Falsehood in Assertive or Negative Sentences etc. Yet it is in Divine Omnipotence to Exercise them and their Opposites equally. Their opposite are Per Se Possible and Per Quod Absurd (Some time called Relative(ly) Impossible).] 7
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Examples of these Attributes are Justice, Truth in Assertive and Negative Sentences Of Deity, Mercy, Grace.
Any Attribute of this type do need two subjects/terms 1] The Active Participle i.e One/That who loveeth. 2] Passive Participle One /That which is loved. As the Passive Participle is not Eternal they are usually consider as Non Eternal. How ever it is said that they are Eternally Disliked By Deity, so the are actually Sempiternal yet they may be called Eternal in a secondary meaning that they are Eternally Liked By Deity. Their opposites are Eternally Disliked By Deity.
2.2] Intermitted Attributes. [Intermitted Relative Attributes Of Deity] They and their Opposites both are Exercised by Deity. They their Opposites and their Negations all are Per Se Possible and none of them is Per Quod Absurd. Example of them Wrath , Punishment, Blessing ,Rewarding, Saving ,[Since God Doeth Not Bless the Evils] . etc.
Any Attribute of this type do need two subjects/terms 1] The Active Participle i.e One/That who loveeth. 2] Passive Participle One /That which is loved. As the Passive Participle is not Eternal they are usually consider as Non Eternal. Their Opposites are not Disliked By Deity since Eternity. That is the reason Some of the Rational Supposita shall not be saved. Etc.
The Second Type Classification is as follow:= Divine Attributes are Divided into two Basic types. 1] Absolute Attributes 2] Relative Attributes. Abslolute Attributes are Divided in to only Two types. 1.1] Negative 1.2] Positive.
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These Positive Attributes in the second type of classification consists of Intransitive Positive Absolute Attributes Only. It hath no further subdivisions. Relative Attributes. It is Divided into three three Types of Attributes. 2.1]Eternal Relative Attributes. They consists of Transitive Positive Absolute Attributes of the First Type of Classification stated Above.
2.2] Perpetual Relative Attributes. 2.3] Intermitted (Relative) Attributes We have provided both types of classifications. How ever there is a type of Division that is Communicable and Incommunicable. As the discussion is beyond the present discussion it is left. How ever in either type of classification a NUMBER OF ATTRIBUTES are EITHER Communicable OR Incommunicable. Agustine’s Fallacy. We have seen that Augustine did analogue Divine Love with the Attribute of Intermitted Attributes and not with the Attributes of Omniscience , Omnipotence etc. That is why he argued for a [Grammatical ] Object separate from the Agent of the Attribute of Love right in Eternity. If he has considered Attribute of Love like the Attributes of Omnipotence and Omniscience he might have concluded as follow:
Divne Knowledge is infinite, He Knoweth not only all EXISTING creatures, but also all possible POSSIBLE Creatures and Creations. Similarly Divine Love is Infinite . He Loveth not only Existing Creatures and Creations but also Possible Creatures and Creations. So if Deity is Omniscience and Omniscient in Eternity , Deity is Love and Lover in Eternity. Now come to the argument: [The Most Repeated One] For any event of "love" we do need the subject who loves, we need an object which is loved, and we need an expression of this love in some way, i.e. an interaction between the first two. 9
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This shews that the love is included in the relative Attributes since they require two separate Existents a) Active Participle b) Passive Participle. Such Attributes cannot exist with out the existence of the Passive Participle. But if it is like Omniscience it doeth not require the existence of the Passive Participle. As Deity Knoweth Non Existing things there is no impossibility that He also loveth them. The word Event also implies non Eternity . Since Omniscience is not an event. An other argument is that : [
Next to the Most Repeated One]
One cannot BE A LOVER when He Loveth Himselfself". Focussing only on myself is Egotism, not love. The words like Egotism and Egoism or Egoness are defined differently and any response to such arguments does depend on the meaning taken. Divine Love for Himself cannot be analogued with Egotism, Egoism, Narcissism etc.
The egotism is an overwhelming sense of the centrality of the 'Me', an personal qualities of that “Me�. Egotism means placing oneself at the core of one's world with no concern for others, including those "loved" or considered as "close. Egotism may also be expressed as follow:
The quality of thinking only about yourself and considering yourself better and more important than other people. It is an an exaggerated opinion of your own importance "Egotism" is an inflated sense of one's importance; it's being conceited or vain. The egotism is the quality of a feeling feeler is superior to others in some way. It is the Quality or Act of talking and thinking about oneself excessively because of an undue sense of self-importance. It is the quality of an excessive sense of self-importance. A quality
a person that is he/she is interested in himself/herself and only in himself/herself’ and only talks about himself/herself. He always tries to see to it that all conversation revolves around him. On the other hand, an egoist believes that he is better and more important than anyone else.
"Egoism" is a preoccupation with oneself, but not necessarily feeling superior to others. 10
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Egocentricity may be defined as:The human quality of thinking only of oneself, without regard for the feelings or desires of others.A quality of regarding one’s own self as the center of all other human beings.: An Attribute that motivates a person to ignore social causes to have a little or no regard for interests, beliefs, or attitudes other than one's own; self-centered. Egotism etc implies a number of Evil qualities and tendencies in a person
But Divine Love For Himself is far beyond such human made definitions. Deity is the Supreme Being, Deity is the Perfect Being, Deity Hath all the Attributes of Perfections, Deity is the Lord, He is Absolute Autocratic Ruler , He is Unchangeable and Unchallengeable. Deity Knoweth His Attributes of Perfection both individually and collectively, His Attribute and His Authorities and His Supremacy. So the Knowledge of His Perfections and Attributes Doeth Imply that He Loveth Himself and His Essence with a Love that is Beyond the human made definitions of Egotism, Egoness, Egoism, Selfishness , Self Centered , Egocentric etc. It is ridiculous to assume that the Augustinian Deity neither Loveth Himself nor His PeR Se Subsistent Essence. To say that Deity neither Liketh His Own Self nor Loveth His own Essence is just like to say that His Perfections ,His Self , His Attributes and His Essence are not Loveable By Himself. Rationality demandeth and Intellect requireth that Deity Loveth His Own Self , His Own Essence, His Own Qualities, Attributes and His Own Perfection with out any implication of Imperfection, Evil, Bad ,Defect and Flaw. So the argument that Deity Loveth not His Own Self or Liketh not His Own Self just on the basis of self proclaimed conditions based on one’s own reasoning is not only unacceptable but necessarily deniable.
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