Discerned

Discerned

Getting a grasp on taste with Irman Hilmi

a browser special issue

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Bare Minimum Before social media, life was just ‘social’. Irman Hilmi was a familiar face at music gigs and clubs, being a musician himself. Online, he earned notoriety for writing snarky blog posts on his ethnic identity. His preference for sans serif aesthetics reflected in his designs, notably in KLue magazine, where he was the art director. Now in his 40s, Irman continues to strive for minimalism. browser explores the influences of this pre-historic ‘influencer’.

Development of style.

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You made a good point because right now, when you use the term ‘influencer’, it usually relates to someone famous.

But I think back then, being an ‘influencer’ doesn’t equate to being famous, so I don’t see myself as being too famous. Like, people outside of the industry wouldn’t know who I am.

The influencer of today is probably more mass, and I see them as influencing sales and products.

I’d like to think that my influence before was more on setting standards or inspiring a movement. It’s more than just selling a product or service.

This was pre-conspicuous consumption capitalism. I took to Instagram quite

later than the normal person because I didn’t see the point in that, although later I succumbed to it because of work and all that.

I think the first time I heard of the term ‘tastemaker’ was when I was invited to this focus group. I think it was by Salem.

They did lots of events and parties and raves in the early 2000s. Salem and Kent.

They are both cigarette brands. They were competing in this market to get kids to smoke because back then, there were still loopholes in cigarette advertising, which is why you saw the Mild Seven logo on the TV, but it wasn’t actively promoting [itself]. But cigarette companies still do branding in events. Even in Indonesia now, it’s still acceptable, but back then, I remembered Salem had this focus group and when we were all together, there were ten of us who… I don’t really remember who was in there, but it was basically the who’s who of the industry.

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About 15 years ago, the term ‘tastemaker’ was the precursor to ‘influencer’. As someone who has been all over the scene, what are your observations when it comes to being famous then and now?

What year was that?

That was probably 2002, 2003. I met some people at that session who are still my friends. And I remember it being described as a ‘tastemaker session’. It was three hours long and they were picking our brains on how to be a better competitor to Kent. How they want to position themselves, event-wise, in subcultures, and music.

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So that was my first encounter with the term ‘tastemaker’. Throughout the years, it [has become] as silly as being a judge for a DJ-ing competition that went on to become Heineken Thirst. It didn’t matter if it’s for music or design, but I think it felt nice to be appreciated on your views and opinions. I would like to think that I still have that right now because I still get calls [asking] “Hey, I would like to pick your brains”. So I might not be the influencer in terms of social media, but I hope that in a way, people see me as [someone with] a good opinion to listen to. But I wouldn’t say I want to be called an otai (old timer). I hate that term otai. People always [call me] “Hey, otai!”. But I hate that.

It’s kind of the opposite now ‘cos back then, brands will go to you and seek your guidance when they are creating campaigns that cater to the target audience you are leading, whereas today, brands go “OK influencer, we have a campaign, just sell whatever we have”.

I’m pretty sure the previous method is still used today but I would assume that social media influencers and Key Opinion Leaders have more precedence in marketing. I know companies that are set up just to deal with influencers. That’s

a totally interesting business model, but I don’t know how long it will last.

How did you develop your design sensibilities?

I don’t know about other designers, but for me, it just came naturally. It’s a combination of what’s surrounding me, so it wasn’t something where I bought a book and studied kerning and spacing and all. I didn’t do that. I think I would like to claim that I have taste. It’s something that is there. I think I am fortunate to have taste that developed as I grow older. It’s something that I can’t explain.

I think most people have it as well but they don’t polish it. You’ll be able to notice when a font is off and all that.

But having said that, there are times when I get advice from people that influence how I see design.

I remember the artist Yee I-Lann, we were block mates. I used to stay below her unit at Bukit Ceylon and I was designing the cassette cover for Damage Digital, which was my Japanese grindcore band. Yee I-Lann’s boyfriend Joe Kidd is a very influential punk dude who runs Alternative Garage Entertainment, which is a record label.

Joe Kidd really liked my band and decided to release an album, so me being the designer, I designed the whole layout of the cassette. I remembered very vividly, one of the first mocks that I designed, Yee I-Lann took a look at it and said, “Irman, sometimes everything doesn’t have to be so centralised”. I remember that until now. That was probably the start of how I saw every layout not as a cover.

later. So most Depeche Mode album covers are designed by Anton Corbijn and New Order’s were designed by Peter Saville, which ended up being two of my favourite designers.

I think growing with that introduced me to a lot of elements that I’ve been using in my design. Whether it’s fonts or the way Peter Saville uses boring photographs and adds a typeface and it becomes a cover. I was really inspired by that.

So it was ingrained in your subconsciousness that only came out when you started practicing design?

When I first started designing CD covers, [the design] has to be [centralised].

But Yee I-Lann’s words stuck to me until now. The cover for the Damage Digital Delete cassette is not centred. I think it started as centred, but it ended up being aligned to the left. I uploaded it on my feed last week because someone bought a copy of it. It was released in 1999. I can’t explain that ‘taste’ and I think every person has taste. It’s just whether they use it or not.

Your motivation has always been centred around design and music. How does music affect your design tendencies, and what are the albums, songs, or musicians, that influenced your design?

I own several Depeche Mode cassettes and CDs as a child. New Order, too. I didn’t know Joy Division until much

If you remember back then, there was this show called Doogie Howser, M.D. It’s Neil Patrick Harris’s first TV show. It’s him being a child prodigy who became a doctor. He was probably around my age then. If you check out clips of this show on YouTube, he was known to have a computer journal. This was all CRT and monochrome monitor. When the episode starts or finishes, I don’t remember, he would write a journal entry on his medical experiences.

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‘Pulsar’ in full is ‘pulsating radio star’.

Its visualisation appears on the cover of Joy Division’s album Unknown Pleasures.

I didn’t know I could make a living from taste until much later. As a kid in school, I used to draw and paint a lot but life changed when I discovered desktop publishing. Like, wow! You can do this on an actual computer and you don’t have to draw fonts. That was probably when I was 16–17. Back then, you only had IBM PC clones with turbo boost button and you can do boring vectors and low polygon stuff. There was no entry for me into desktop publishing at that time, so I used the IBM PC, the one I had at home, as a journal. It was nothing more than a fancy diary for me.

I didn’t discover Illustrator until I was interning at this Japanese company that hired me as a designer. One of the designers there said, “Why are you using Photoshop for layouts? Use Illustrator!”.

Fast forward to 2017, when you were the editor of malaysia.my. A portal packaged as halfWikipedia, half-National Geographic for local stories that one wouldn’t get to read in the news and tourist brochures. What were the things you discovered about your own country that blew your mind during your stint?

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Irman’s fondness for pop art can be seen in his choice of lumbar support

So I was inspired by that and throughout school, my computer at home was used as a journal, and to play games. But once I got to Japan in 1995, my friend gave me my first experience of Photoshop 1.0.

I was like, “Whoa, what is this?!”. That was my first Power Mac experience. I could actually use technology to enhance the imagery that I have in my head into something physical.

One of the first things that I designed was my band’s first demo tape, which I ended up designing the proper album under Joe Kidd’s label. I didn’t know about Illustrator back then, and this was Photoshop before they had the layers feature. So it was that old. I didn’t discover proper layout until much later.

There are a lot of people who want to do creative stuff but they can’t because there is no support. One of the saddest things that I discovered was that there are many old artisans who have no way of continuing their art because their sons and daughters are not interested.

There is no sense of apprenticeship [like what you’d] find in Japanese culture.

They still feel it’s easier to make money working at a factory in towns, rather than making the grip of a keris. I’m not saying that there are no young people who are interested to take over that art, but maybe we are not aware of them, compared to other cultures.

So during our on-ground events that we did under ‘nation branding’, we’d bring all these artisans out just so that kids can see their art. We had a keris guy, a 3D-printing guy, a lion’s head maker (for lion dance)... it was a sharing session with the public.

Where and when was that event?

This was before the 14th General Election. We went all over the country on a tour called Ekspresi Negaraku. It was

a government campaign. We had this stand that featured creative people and most of them were featured on malaysia. my. Funnily enough, during one of those events, there was this keris maker, a very old man. He is the only person who makes the royal regalia for the national palace. So I was having a conversation with him and told him that as a kid, I remember watching short documentaries produced by Filem Negara Malaysia that were usually aired before the news on television. One of the topics were the labu sayong in Kuala Kangsar, and the other one was about a keris maker. And he said, “I was that man!”. He was the same guy that I watched when I was a 10-year-old!

He’s still doing it alone. It’s a pity.

As malaysia.my was moderated by the thenruling government, how did you put up with the bureaucratic practices?

I just ignored them and got into trouble many times.

You don’t socialise with them?

I was called into meetings for briefings, but I was insistent on how that website should be pro-growth and not propolitical party or pro-politician. Having said that, there were instances when I was told to feature a certain person on the website. Usually we don’t oblige.

I fought for editorial integrity.

Being in an influential position, were you tempted to abuse your power by setting a certain narrative for malaysia.my?

We were asked to, but I think the website managed to split that to another side, meaning that if you were asked to do something like that, it won’t be on

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“There are many old artisans who have no way of continuing their art because their sons and daughters are not interested. There is no sense of apprenticeship [like what you’d] find in Japanese culture.”

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“I shall not waste money on buying design books for the sake of being inspired. I want to be inspired when I walk down the street and see signages of a Tom Yam shop.�

malaysia.my. [Instead], it would be on some press release.

But personally, since that you were the editor, have you thought of skewing the website’s narrative according to what you want Malaysia to be?

We wanted to write about the Temuan people and it [turned out to be] a negative piece. It was condemning what that was done to them. I think that brought some attention to their plight. How the previous and current government treats Orang Asli is a very big issue now. I don’t care if Malaysians are ignorant of climate change or pollution, but at least, if you’re a Malaysian, pay attention to who was here first. Malaysians are only interested in proselytising them.

What are your preferred sources of information?

There’s this thing on my Apple TV called Haystack TV. It’s my daily requirement of background fodder. I’m not focused enough to be watching stuff on TV, unless I’m binging on Netflix.

What books or sites do you read?

I don’t have a book that I refer to because while I was developing myself as a designer, [my philosophy was] I shall not refer to any design books for my design. I shall not waste money on buying design books for the sake of being inspired. I want to be inspired when I walk down the street and see signages of a Tom Yam shop. Which is why my stint in Japan helped me a lot.

After 20 years in Malaysia, seeing how the local signages work, how people pack their food, and going to Japan to see something totally different, that refreshed my design taste. I don’t have a favourite book or website. The website I used to go to for inspiration closed down years ago; it was ffffound.com. I used to go there every day, but since then, I don’t visit a particular site. Actually, none. My design idols are whom I have discovered via Depeche Mode and New Order; Anton Corbijn and Peter Saville.

And who was that Swiss grid design guy?

Josef Müller-Brockmann?

Yes.

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I think that rather than exploiting it that way, we highlighted issues that needed attention. I’m pretty sure there were many powerful people reading our articles, and there were some issues that I wanted to bring attention to. One of them was the Temuan people (an indigenous tribe) in Damansara Perdana who were displaced because of the building that [our office] was in (PJ Trade Centre), and how the site where they were relocated to was not suitable to their lifestyle. In the end, [the houses] were rented out and they didn’t want to live there.

Haystack TV plays your newsfeed based on the hashtags you have chosen. For local news, I get it on Facebook because I don’t watch Malaysian TV at all.

Even when I was working for a Malaysian government contractor.

But when I visit my hometown, when people are talking about the current season of Maharaja Lawak or the latest drama, I am lost. I used to have this habit of watching Melodi every Sunday just for the fun of it, though.

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One of Irman’s hobbies is to fly drones

Irman has sold off most of his musical instruments many years ago

What makes an object become an icon for something unrelated e.g. Fred Perry polo tees and skinheads (and now Neo-Nazis)?

negative connotations to their apparel but it’s as iconic as how Doc Martens are to punks.

I guess any brand has no control over who embraces them. Regardless if it was targeted to British lads but ended up being the uniform for Neo-Nazis.

I’d consider it as a success story, in a way, because they catered to an international subculture of negative people, but at the end of the day, their product still sells.

How different is it in your media consumption today, compared to the pre-Internet era?

I don’t think Fred Perry is even bothered about it. I do stuff for Fred Perry as one of their ‘influencers’ but every time I put that black polo t-shirt on, I do feel like a Neo-Nazi. So I don’t wear it. [The label] is aware of the

Everything’s instantaneous, so you know that feeling when you forget about something and you go through that Rolodex in your head to find out what that word, item, or person is? Growing up, I used to have this method, like if I forgot a name, I’d go through the alphabet in my head and go, “Does it start with an A? No. Does it start with a B? No.”. And I would go all the way down to Z. If something strikes a chord, I’d go sideways rather than downwards.

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The cutting mat serves as a surface for Irman’s engineering projects

I don’t have to do all of that today. Maybe this [digitalisation] has made me slower or stupider, but it certainly is useful.

He’s seen a lot of things, then!

What is the oldest, rarest, and coolest thing you own?

This guy. I’ve had him since I was eight.

E.T.?

As a kid, I imagined he could talk and move. I don’t know how he survived. I think you can find it on eBay for quite a price. And he looks new! He’s probably my only surviving toy since I was a kid.

There was a very funny story. I used to have a BMX, after watching E.T. When I was eight, I’d cycle and put him on my collar. He was my cycling buddy.

I remember during one of my cycling ‘adventures’, I fell into a canal off a bridge. I think I was trying to avoid another motorist and I panicked and fell into the canal, and an elder man helped me out. As he was pulling me out, he shouted “Eh! Toyol!”. Which is why if you’ve read my blog before, I had an article with a picture of E.T. and how in the Malay culture, an alien like E.T. would be considered a toyol (a fetus spirit that is taught to steal).

I sold off most of my collection but I’ve held on to one here. It’s my comics. I grew up reading these Marvel comics.

These were my friend’s collection. I think it was from his uncle or cousin.

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E.T. = Eh! Toyol!

Being minimally Malay.

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You blogged under the pseudonym Melayu Minimalis, and published social commentaries from your personal view. What was the philosophy behind being a minimalist Malay?

How that name came about was not that I was a minimalist. I was probably a minimalist back then without realising it because I don’t like to own stuff. It was more of how I am less of a Malay [and] more of a human being. So Melayu Minimalis doesn’t mean that I’m a Malay who is a minimalist. It actually meant that I am minimalistically a Malay.

Meaning, I am not much of a Malay.

So your Malay-ness is only on your IC. Yes. That was the whole idea behind [the] Aku Tak Peduli (I Don’t Care) [blog].

I don’t care about what the Malays care. I wanted to divert attention to more interesting things that the Malay people should care about. That was the intention of Aku Tak Peduli. By writing stuff that you know already know of, but probably didn’t know that in Malay.

Why did you start the blog in the first place?

I was really angry over the stuff I’d see.

Like how certain Malays drive, or how they are scared of touching dogs. I didn’t understand that mentality. I didn’t want to write in English because I don’t want to preach to the converted. So when I write in Malay, it would appeal to the people I want to reach to.

Some saw your blog as highbrow, just because you write in full sentences and avoid abbreviations.

My dad was a Malay language teacher and one of his legacies was [composing] the Malay language paper for SPM (local equivalent of O Level). He was in Lembaga Peperiksaan Malaysia (Malaysian Examination Board). He’d have books on how to score the papers, and he was a writer, too. He didn’t [impose a standard], but I remember my late dad, even when he made jokes, it would be silly, grammatical dad-jokes that I’m probably making right now.

I can see the beauty of full sentences.

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“Melayu Minimalis doesn’t mean that I’m a Malay who is a minimalist. It actually meant that I am minimalistically a Malay. Meaning, I am not much of a Malay.”

Do you think that the blogging format is not as effective in this age?

Yes, with the instant gratification generation. The TL;DR generation.

You’ve had your time.

I’ve had my time when I was angry and I’m no longer angry. I tried writing something that is more relevant now but anger is a very good motivator and I stopped being angry a long time ago.

I have nothing to complain about.

So you’re content?

Yup.

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The Malay society in Malaysia is generally on the moderate side, compared to other Malay societies that is either progressive, or conservative, or have both extremes, case in point, Indonesia.

What can we learn from societies that don’t institutionalise race?

This is a tricky question. If I were to write a blog post right now and be angry about something, I can only be angry about one thing, and that is, why Malay Malaysians devolved into who we are right now. We have this thing in Islam where if you see vice, you must speak up against it. If someone did something that is supposedly bad in the religious eyes, you’re supposed to react. So that mentality has emphasised that holierthan-thou attitude of Malay Muslims.

And that has sort of screwed everything up. [The concept] was meant to be for people to look out for each other, but it became a platform to criticise people, and when you criticise people, it causes

hurt. That’s how the whole culture of Internet trolling and the ‘meleis’ culture began. It’s in its peak right now with the whole Bossku culture. It’s all the same thing. It evolved from our desire to feel that we are way better than everyone else. How we deserve the bumiputera status. How we deserve to be the only ones in local universities. We feel like we are so important but to the rest of the world, we are insignificant. We are famous because of Najib Razak and MH17 and MH370.

It’s ironic because since we have that special rights, the sad thing is that, even stupid people have a right and us Malaysians who like watching Melodi, we give voice to these stupid people. It’s our fault for allowing the Bossku culture to gain a voice.

But what about freedom of speech?

That’s the thing that America has it wrong right now. They are always saying that Donald Trump’s supporters are stupid. The liberal and the nonconservative Americans are asking why they are giving this president a voice on Fox News and all that. Stupid people have freedom of speech as well, but what gets picked up in the media is directly related to the mentality that your country has. They don’t realise that Donald Trump won because all of these so-called liberals underestimated his supporters. Malaysia is a good example where stupid people have a voice and sometimes their voices are louder than the intellects.

You mentioned the ‘Bossku’ movement. Do you think Najib and co. are rubbing their palms

in glee as the voting age will be lowered to 18, and they already have a campaign that appeals to young people? With a higher percentage of youth being eligible to vote, we will return to the previous government?

We have a lesson to learn from the whole Donald Trump thing. Don’t underestimate people whom you think are stupid or lesser than you. Or younger, even. One stupid vote is still a vote.

According to the Malaysian Constitution, to be identified as a Malay, one has to practice Malay customs, speak the language habitually, and follow the Islamic faith. Have you imagined if being a Muslim is not a requirement to be categorised as a Malay? What will Malaysia be if we have the Malays subscribing to different faiths?

What do you think of affirmative action being enforced in various situations? Among them, for university admissions, property sales etc. What about to the point of amending the constitution?

An example would be when the Singaporean government gave way to a Malay President.

I think it will be a while until we reach a point where the Malays are able to compete on the same level and have enough self-esteem to not be helped

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Mr. Mojo Risin’ on a bootleg Eames chair

It’s a bit of a conflict of interest when the constitution promises freedom of religion, unless you’re a Malay. People in Malaysia still feel that religious rights is higher than human rights. Until we have your right as a human being overtaking the religious rights that are imposed on you, things won’t change.

Which is unfortunate. I’m a strong believer of rights, regardless of your religion or race. You have your basic rights to be heard.

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Irman is holding a special pressing of Unknown Pleasures, released in conjunction with its 40th anniversary. The black-on-white graphic was the intended design by its art director Peter Saville.

by government grants. That’s why Malaysia has so many government grants and agencies that just give out money. [Special rights] only help us in being less confident and not compete on the same level, which is very unfortunate.

I’m a product of the bumiputera scheme.

I remember in school, I was always the token bumiputera guy in computer quizzes. I was a finalist for two years, and I’d be the only Malay guy because the requirement was to have at least one Malay team member. And I got to Japan based on the Look East Policy.

Regardless of which government is in power, they still want to focus on that. They won’t focus on people like us. We [the urban population] were never the focus. When I did projects targeted to the urban population, it was never to sway the vote. It was always about keeping them quiet, or to satisfy them. It was always about pro-growth, regardless of political affiliation.

Like me. I’m here because of what?

Because of the bumiputera policy. That’s not a nice feeling, to be indebted for [affirmative action].

It would take a while to talk about Malay architecture and Malay design, in terms of fabric and whatnot. We are not uniquely unique; our community has spread to the islands of Maldives, Australia, Okinawa; there is Malay culture everywhere else.

What makes us unique does not make us unique, in a way. Once people realise that we are part of the culture that we think is so special, isn’t special after all in this world, in terms of getting our ideas out there, conserving our culture, food, arts, music. We need to have that realisation.

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There were lots of other things that were afforded to me because I am a Malay. I’ve always wondered how my life would be like if I was not given these privileges. People would probably assume that my life would have been worse, but what if it could have been better? Until we reach the generation that realises that this whole bumiputera thing could be a burden and not an advantage, in a global community, we’ll still be [stuck].

What about the Malay culture that you think is truly unique that no other cultures possess?

Close to heart.

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When I met you after six years since I last saw you, you said you have Marie Kondo-ed your possessions and friends. What sparked that idea?

I’ve always done that throughout my life. Every six months to a year, I would take out everything that I own and throw it out. My realisation of having too many stuff was when I moved to this place. I was staying in a smaller studio apartment before. When we were packing up, there were like 23 boxes. It didn’t look cramped because I knew how to arrange them. But it was still a lot. So that sparked the realisation that I need not own so many things. The first thing to go was all of my magazine collection.

From the early issues of The Face to the first issue of KLue, everything!

Who did you surrender them to?

I just put it in a dump site. Then I threw away my clothes. To me, if I don’t see it or wear it or use it in the past three months, I would throw it away.

I learned the art of letting go of things easily. That led to letting go of people.

Whether it’s people who had issues with me or doing what I don’t like. I have a delete button in my head. I would do this when I’m organising stuff and wonder why there is no undo button.

Later I realised that if I have less things to undo, then I won’t need that feeling to undo. If I don’t have a CD collection in the first place, I don’t need to [get rid of it]. So I got rid of that, and my Hot Wheels collection. Then I started to have this mindset where if things need to be part of a collection, I don’t need it.

Did you have an archivist instinct? Like how some things should be preserved.

That’s a very Malay thing. “Maybe this will be useful”. [Hoarding] is the root of your possession problems. I don’t feel sentimental. I am yet to impose that on my family. My mum is a collector. If you go back to my house in Johor, it’s got the typical carved wooden chairs.

My sister collects Hard Rock Café shot glasses. I grew up with that [habit of] collecting stuff. One of the things that was tricky for me was with toys.

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Designer, editor, writer, musician... Irman is a man of many hats.

I managed to lie to myself, that if the toy doesn’t move on its own, I won’t buy it. Hence, I started playing RC cars and fly drones because they move, and I can learn new things from them. I stopped going to Amcorp Mall. I’ve wasted so much money there, buying stuff.

You’re a middle-aged man. Did you experience mid-life crisis? Is this a phenomenon that is shaped by society where every man cannot escape from, or is it an avoidable thing?

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It’s an avoidable thing when you have something to focus on. As I grew older, there are less things to focus on because I’m just not bothered. Mid-life crisis, to me, is when you are finding a new thing to focus on. For me, I bought a vintage car and tried to restore it, bought a motorbike, I went through it all. It’s just me trying to focus my energy on.

What were you focused on, prior to that?

Work and responsibilities. Now, I can concentrate less on work because I have less stressful work. Previously, I was concentrating on making a living. But I’ve been on retirement mode for the past year, but I realise that I have to find new clients and projects.

What about you that has totally changed, compared to your youth days?

I thought I was tolerant before, but I was wrong. I’m at my most tolerant level ever. I don’t fuss over the small things.

Or is it that age is catching up on you?

Physically, yes. Which is why I’m on a diet. My mind still believes that it’s still

in its 30s. There are certain moments when I feel physical pain, but my mind thinks I’m 33. Maybe that’s a bad thing.

What are some of your life-defining moments?

Getting married. Getting my kid.

Getting divorced. Leaving the 9-to5 system and going at it on my own.

Setting up my own company and business. Then leaving all of that to join a much more rigid system, to make myself a better person and surviving it.

You were married? When?

2001 to 2005.

And you have a kid.

Yes, he’s 16 now and going to do his A Level in the UK. I have a good relationship with my ex-wife, who has since remarried three or four years ago.

It took me awhile to be able to forgive her. But we matured and now we can talk like normal people. It was different before, for at least a good eight or nine years, but it’s fine now, for the past five or six years.

Why is it important for you to leave a legacy? Is one of it to have a more design-literate society?

People don’t remember you for who you are when you’re gone. People remember you for what you did. Yesterday, a friend from Kuantan passed away — Arif Ramly. There are so many people posting about him. He’s a very helpful guy who used to manage Liyana Fizi and other bands. Basically he’s a guy from the scene. He went back to Kuantan several years ago to be closer to his

mum. I read posts on social media written by people remembering him on how he has improved their career, helped them organise a show, and how he was a good friend.

In your case?

I don’t know. I have no specific [desire] of how to be remembered. But it would be nice to have a legacy. To be more than just a person. To be an idea or concept. So I need to do something that affects people’s lives positively. Whether you learn something while being my intern. I meet a lot of my interns who’s in the industry now, being art directors or editors.

Kluang is so small. It was easy to explore everywhere, so by the time I was 15, I knew [every place] in Kluang. We get SBC-5, which was a Singapore-based TV station. So I grew up with better TV than most Malaysians who are limited to RTM1, RTM2 and TV3. We also had SBC-8 and SBC-12. That was the best thing about Kluang, and the food.

The house where I grew up in is near Kluang Mall, and it’s so weird because back then, I’d have to take the train to Singapore every other weekend to buy Depeche Mode t-shirts or my Doc Martens. You can’t get them in Malaysia.

So about Kluang Mall, if I was 15 today, I could go to Kluang Mall and visit Uniqlo. Can you imagine, back then…

You’d have to fly to Japan to get a Uniqlo item!

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An accessory made for #catsofinstagram

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You grew up in the thick of the Johorean state — Kluang. What is interesting, or not interesting, about growing up there?

So [the town] has advanced, but I wonder what it would be like to grow up in Kluang today. In my time, there was only one shop that sold Adidas, one shop that sold Levi’s, and that’s it. I saw all these brands on SBC 5 and I’d go to Singapore to get it. That was the age of delayed gratification. I couldn’t literally get out of my house to buy them because I’d have to get out of my house, get on a train, go through immigration and that long process.

What was your family like?

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Irman’s books are arranged according to the colour of its spines

My dad was the assistant education officer of the district. I’m pretty sure that all of the teachers in my school would report to him on what I’ve done. So I wasn’t a bad kid in school.

I was the best student in school during Primary Six. I became a prefect in Form Two. Maybe subconsciously, I knew that if I do any bad thing, my dad would find it out immediately, being an education officer. So I didn’t do ‘naughty’ stuff until I went to university, like picking up smoking at 20, or partying. My mum is a businesswoman. She sells Pyrex goods, until today. She was the main supplier in Kluang. While my father was on the government payroll, all the extra money we got was from my mum. She still supports herself in her 70s.

My elder brother is an engineer who works at MISC in Johor Bahru. My elder sister was an architect at GDP Architects and she joine the design arm, and left around five years ago, and has been freelancing since. My younger sister has the uncanny ability to get a job at companies that become bankrupt.

Are you in on the ‘Bangsa Johor’ bandwagon?

No. I think it’s a step back in what we Malaysians are trying to be. State pride is good, in a way, but once it’s a brand or slogan, it gets annoying. Especially when you’re from that community and you don’t agree with that idea. If I find Bangsa Johor annoying as a Johorean, imagine what non-Johoreans think of it.

to do with economic reasons, rather than the whole Bangsa Johor thing. I have no other opinion on that because even when I was on the nation branding job for the Prime Minister’s office, the Johor royal family wasn’t seen as a threat. That’s the impression I got from being in the system.

How Johorean are you? Are you the kind of person who’d spell it with an ‘e’?

Do you think Johor has the potential secede from Malaysia, like how there is a similar movement in Sarawak? Is this sentiment made stronger with other international events, like how prodemocracy protesters are waving the Union Jack in Hong Kong, and Brexit?

I have no idea. The reason Johor hasn’t secede from Malaysia probably has more

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One of my cousins has always been trying to get me to go back to Johor. He was the Vice President of Iskandar (a development region) and is an architect.

But Barisan Nasional (BN, the previous Malaysian government) lost and he’s struggling to get jobs. Being a city planner as well involves creating content for the city; he used to run Kilang Bateri.

That was his project of creating BN content for Johor, catering to Gen Ys. But I don’t like staying in Johor Bahru (JB) because the roads are too dark. The food is good but my only good memory of going to JB was following my dad to this bookstore near where the immigration complex used to be. The bookstore is still there. My memory of my dad, growing up, was always of bookstores. I have a few of his collection of books that I inherited.

Depeche Mode: ON

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How was it possible to know Depeche Mode (DM) when you’re living in a second-tier city like Kluang back in the 1980s?

We were close to Singapore. My brother loves going to Singapore and would bring back cassettes and t-shirt. My first memory was when I was seven or eight and listening to Just Can’t Get Enough and Everything Counts on the cassette player of my dad’s car, driving to Johor Bahru to go to Singapore. So I grew up listening to them. I remember in secondary school, I tried to get my friend, Selvin Choi, into DM because he was trying to develop his singing. He chose the song Somebody because it was easy to sing.

But I don’t remember having friends in school that loved DM [the way] I did.

How did you keep up with DM news back then?

Smash Hits and Number One magazines, bought at Union Bookstore in Kluang.

Smash Hits was the glitzier one, Number One was the slightly cheaper one. Smash Hits had annuals and I used to buy those, too. It’s usually about Kylie [Minogue] and Jason Donovan, but sometimes they’d have DM on it.

Was DM ever big in Malaysia?

When I went to Japan and returned every year for summer break, there was a huge DM community in KL in 1996–1998, that there was a DM cover band, the Devotees. I think DM became really big when the Songs of Faith and Devotion [album] came out. When I was in KL, I didn’t know any DM fans, until I came back from Japan.

I think they were placed in the same vein as other British dance acts. Even New Order, who was very big back then. But the first band that I liked, that many other people liked, was Nirvana.

equipment which you can put everything on a laptop. midi

Spacebar came out at the same time with Herb Vendors and Discomafia.

We were peers and we used to exchange equipment and perform at the same shows. Before us was Cyberwerk. But they were playing trance. No one was playing pop. The only 80s synthpop song I know of was that Francissca Peter song Komputer Muzik.

What was the story behind the song ‘Somebody’ that affected the way you looked at relationships?

The Malaysian equivalent would probably be Death.Becomes.Her. But they had more of The Cure kind of vibe.

The vocalist had big hair.

So there was never a synthpop trend here?

I’m trying to think… There was this guy called Rabbit. I think he tried to become DM circa Songs of Faith and Devotion period. Ivan Chan.

But didn’t Rabbit won the AIM award in 2001 and then disappeared?

Yeah. The whole synthpop thing was…

Malaysia has always been 10 to 15 years too late, back then. But now, we’re five years late. So there was no synthpop movement in the 80s or the 90s. Probably in the late 90s with cheap

I guess the words grew into me, not because I was trying to live by these words, but I listened to it many times that it was ingrained into my subconsciousness. Especially the world we live in, and life in general. And how one might disagree over the things that I say that may be wrong, that became the basis of how I approach relationships back then. I remember talking to one

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Was there a synthpop scene in Malaysia?

What was the Malaysian equivalent of DM?

I liked the ‘live’ version of song more when I first discovered it on the 101 CD. But I didn’t know about the lyrics until later. But even when I was six or seven, my brother scribbled on something, a furniture at home. I don’t remember what it was, but it had the words the world we live in, and life in general. I didn’t learn until much later that it was the lyrics from the song Somebody. Then I delved into the song and it was the first time I heard the word ‘perverted’. When you’re a kid, you don’t understand that word, so I opened an Oxford dictionary and checked the meaning. Then my friend Selvin Choi tried to sing that song and I learned how to play it on the piano.

of my ex-girlfriends about this song.

Maybe my vision of love was so perverted because I listened to that [song].

Seems like you grew up to and with DM. How did they narrate your life, and did their lives off stage affected yours, too?

But the context of the word ‘perverted’ in that song doesn’t refer to unconventional sexual desires, but how one’s views is against the norm.

I didn’t care much about them being people. It was more about the music.

I knew of Dave [Gahan] dying and all that but they are not pop stars. They are distant to me as how New Order was.

Musicians who came together and just made good music. I probably had more interest in New Kids On The Block, what Jordan Knight was doing, because they are personalities, and it’s easier to get news about them, compared to what Alan Wilder is doing. Their personal lives never influence me in any way.

That was maybe why my vision of how that somebody would be skewed towards that lyrics, without realising it. Maybe that’s why I like going out with difficult people. People who would always disagree with my views, even though they may be wrong and they may even be perverted.

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Have your feelings towards the band changed when Alan Wilder left?

My feelings for the band hasn’t changed, but it made me regret for not going to the show when they played in Singapore, and it was all four of them.

And I’ll never see them as a four-piece.

I really hated [the album] Ultra. That was the start of the decline [of the band] and I was getting more disinterested [with the band]. I didn’t indulge in them until Exciter.

What is your comment on the music they make now?

No comment. As I said, I lost interest in their music since Ultra, with the exception of [the song] Home. I don’t know how that song caught my attention, but it did. Probably because it was sung by Martin [Gore]. I think they are one of the bands that could still pull of a nostalgia set list and people would appreciate it, without having them to play new songs.

Dave is no Bono (of U2). That’s why [DM] survived. Dave sort of tried to be the Bono and did the tattoos and long hair, but he got a wakeup call from his death scares and I’m thankful Dave never became a sellout. He probably makes more money than Bono without realising it. He still has his integrity.

When I saw the Strangelove video on German TV, then and now, he’s still the same guy who still [knows how to] work it.

What was the idea of masculinity in the 1980s?

From what Martin and Dave displayed, things have changed a lot today.

I think Martin was one of the first guys who got away wearing a leather harness on mainstream TV. And [the song] Little 15 was probably about pedophilia, but they have enough controversy to create new dialogue but at the same time, they are safe enough to do mass. That’s the balance that I believe no other band has. They are still performing at

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sell-out shows at stadiums and arenas today, without pulling off a Bono or Chris Martin.

Let Me Down Again. The human emotions between two people. Everything Counts and People Are People are like, OK, whatever.

So that’s why you still love them even though they’ve been making music you don’t like for over half of their existence?

Most loved DM track and album?

Which kind of lyrics do you prefer? Martin’s socio-political commentary, or perversely emotional songwriting?

Enjoy The Silence, and Violator. I love the song before I knew about the story behind it. How they recorded 5,000 versions and chose the first one. The song works. And the impact of seeing how Anton Corbijn directing Dave walking in the tundra or on icebergs stuck to me. And that oversaturated blues and reds. [b]

That’s so difficult to answer. I’ve loved everything Martin has done ever since he was pushed into the limelight when Vince Clarke left. But his last masterpiece was Home, sorry to say that.

I like his writing for Strangelove and Never

Follow Irman on Instagram at @irmanhilmi

Yes, they’re still the same band. The bands that I listened to when I was ten, I’m not sure if they’re still around.

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A still from Enjoy The Silence music video. Directed by Anton Corbijn, released in 1990.

It would be nice to have a legacy.

To be more than just a person.

To be an idea or concept.

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July 2019 Writer, art director Liyana Photographer Jun Kit Liyana.Aina@gmail.com instagram.com/pfrsch PayPal.me/LiyanaAina #BrowserMagazine Special thanks to Rebecca Chew.