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Global superstardom? It’sexhausting!

ANAUDIENCEWITHTRACEYTHORN

TRACEY Thorniswellawareof the absurdity of the situation that she and her Everything But The Girl partner Ben Watt found themselves in af er “Missing” scaled charts around the world in the mid-’90s. “I remember thinking, ‘This is brilliant, I’ve loved it, but I couldn’t live like this forever.’ We’d already been along a road with some real ups and downs, so it was almost like someone waving a magic wand and saying, ‘Af er all that, you’re gonna have the fun of an absolutely massive fuck-of hit!’ Then we did the follow-up record, which was successful again, then I retired. Global superstardom? It’s exhausting!”

Her retirement has been unusually productive: as well as three solo albums and a Christmas record, Thorn has also written four non-f ction books, with the latest, My Rock’n’Roll Friend, charting her long friendship with Go-Betweens drummer Lindy Morrison with typical humour and emotional depth. “A few people had said to Lindy, ‘You should write a book,’ and she went, ‘I don’t want to do that.’ I said quite jokingly to her, ‘I’ll write a book about you.’ Then I thought, ‘Hang on, that could be really interesting…’”

On a grey spring day, Thorn is on a video call with Uncut to answer your questions on the book, her newfound interest in gardening, her work with Paul Weller, what’s next for her music and more. “I imagined music would be something I just did for a while,” she says. “Back then I was imagining that what I was studying at university – English –was what I’d do as my career. I’ve kind of ended up there in the end, I just took a circuitous route.”

TheEverythingButTe Girl star turned rock memoirist on lightbulb moments, “fuck-off hits” andbeingArethaforaday

Interview by TOM PINNOCK

Ifyoucouldbecomefriends withandwriteabiographyof anydeceasedfemalemusician, whowoulditbe? WendiArmstrong,viaemail

Dusty,Ithink–imaginebeing actualfriendswithDusty!JudeeSill isreallyinteresting,butit’sallabit dark.ThegoodthingaboutLindyis thatshe’sthisincrediblyoutspoken, no-flterperson.It’sgreatraw material.Ididn’twantittobeall worthyandmiserable–thereis someangerintherebutalsojustthesense of:‘Heresheis,thisfuckingamazing womanwhoIwanttocelebrate.’Dusty’s storyhasbeentold,butifI’dbeenfriends withherandhadallthesegreatanecdotes aboutgoingclubbingwithher,thatwould justbefabulous.

Haveyoufoundthepublishing industryfriendliertowardswomen thanthemusicindustry? Elena,viaemail

Therearecertainlymorewomeninit!My editornowisaman,but I think he’s almost the only man I work with. Whereas in the music business, so much of the time I was surrounded by men. The literary audiences are dif erent too – I did a book event and the organiser looked out at the crowd and said, “Oh, it’s nice to see some men here!”

Heroine diaries: with Lindy Morrison, London, 1987 Doyouthinkthere’llbeanyreturnto workingwithBen,ortoplayinglive? BethRidpath,viaemail

EverynowandthenBenandItalk aboutdoingsomething,notnecessarily reformingEverythingButTheGirl–Idon’t thinkwe’vegotanyinterestintryingto revivesomething–butyouknow,welive inthesamehouse,wesometimesthink, ‘Oh,wecouldjustmuckaroundabitwith somemusicalideas’,butthenwegetbusy onwhatwe’reeachdoing.Ifwebothwere suddenlyintherightplace,ifwedidn’t haveotherthingsgoingon,andifwehad anideathatfeltconnectedtothehereand now[we’ddoit].It’snoteasyworkingand livingtogether,butwemadeitworkfor quiteanumberofyears.Sincethenwe’ve hadthreekidstogether,sothat’sanother dimensiontotherelationship.Asfor playingliveagain–thereasonIdon’tdo itisthatIcan’tworkoutaformat.Idon’t wanttodoan‘EBTGplaytheirfrstalbum’ gig,andIdon’twanttogoonabigtour.

Youseemlikeanunusuallyefficient, creativeperson–doyouhaveany adviceforothercreativepeopleon howtogetthingsdone? JamesPenney,viaemail

That’saverygoodquestion.Idon’teven knowtheanswer!Thehardestthingis saying,“Right,thisisfnished”,and lettingitgo.I’mquitegoodatthat.It’ll neverbeasbrilliantasthatinitialidea was,whenthelightbulbwentonoveryour head.Thenyoulookatthethinginyour handandgo,“Oh,OK,I’vedonethatthing Ialwaysdoagain.”Butyoujusthavetolet thingsgoandputthemoutthere.

Thorn at his side: with Paul Weller at the ICA, London, January 1983

RecentlyBenhasposted pictures of yourstudentdaysin Hull. What do you thinkoftheyoungTracey Thorn? MarkDeverill,viaemail

Istillrecogniseher,but it’s just like a very unformedversion;allthe bits that were goingtobemewerestarting to fall into place.Ifyou’dtoldme, “That music you’re doingnow,you’regoing to do that for yearsandyears–these gigs you f nd really difcult,you’regoingto do loads of them andgoontouraround the world”, I don’t thinkI’dhavethought that was true.

IreadSweetDreams, Dylan Jones’ historyoftheNewRomantics, and wasshockedbyhow few women he includes.Whowould you include? Judith,viaemail

Ihaven’treadhisbook, but that’s a general pointImakerepeatedly when histories ofmusicalorpop-culture movements get told–thewomenjustvanish. When you seefootageofgigsand clubs, the women arethere,butsomehow, in the telling, theyslipaway.Sade,Ithink there’s a good booktobewrittenthere – she’s someone whoslipsoutofthetelling of the history ofBritishmusic;she’svery interesting andsosuccessful.Idid note to somebody theotherdaythatGillian Gilbert is the onlymemberofNewOrder who hasn’t yet writtenherbook!

Isithardertowritea Top 10 book or aTop10hit? PaulCollins,viaemail

There’ssomethingrandom about both of them.HavingaTop10 book is of en just sheerchance,whatelse is out that week, andinrecentyearsthat’s become truer of recordstoo.Ourbiggest hit is “Missing”, andIremember,though we knew that we’dcomeupwithsomething that was asclosetohitmaterial as we were likely towrite,theoriginalversion didn’t quite nailit.Evenwhenthe Todd Terry mix camein,no-onewent, “Oh, that’s a hit now!”Itstilltookanother year. Then oncesomethingisahit, everyone looks backandsays,“Oh,it was inevitable, it soundedlikeahit.”Well, it didn’t!

Is that still the case or do you have more appreciation for your voice? Bronwyn Jones, via email

I wasn’t being all self-deprecating – I do think I’ve always had a good understanding of what’s good about my voice and why it works, but just being Aretha for a day... what must that feel like, to have that power and be able to hit those notes? It would be extraordinary!

Do you remember working with Paul Weller on The Style Council’s “The Paris Match”? What have you been listening to recently? Duncan Morris, via email

I really loved the last Waxahatchee album. I got into the habit of going for an early walk every morning, especially in the f rst lockdown, and I’d put that on in my headphones. I listened to it again the other day and it was almost a little bit spinetingly, it really took me back to when everything felt so strange.

Do you have any dream collaborators still?

Jim Bryson, via email Jane Nixon, via email

That’s one of the most extraordinary bits of my career. We were still students, we’d literally made one single together as Everything But The Girl, and the f rst thing Paul did af er splitting up The Jam was appear on stage with us at the ICA. He sang “The Girl From Ipanema” with me in a slightly camp way, with us both giggling through it – just the lack of rock-star pomposity was amazing. We stayed in touch and I’ve got handwritten letters from him to my student f at in Hull. He’d send cassettes, really good songs – “Oh, I’ve got this new song, we’re gonna do this one together” – and then he’d change his mind: “Scrap that, I’ve got this new song, we’re gonna do this...” He must have sent four or f ve dif erent ideas, then we f nally settled on doing “The Paris Match”. He was a massive successful pop star, with Solid Bond Studios, and we were still students, so it was a bit of a clash in terms of status. But that’s Paul, and it’s never changed with him, his absolute love and enthusiasm for ‘What are the young people doing now?’

You said once you wanted the soaring voice of soul singers.

“We made it work”: with Ben Watt in EBTG in the mid-’90s; (below) Thorn’s 2018 solo album

I’ve known Neil Tennant a little bit for a long time, and every now and then I namecheck Pet

Shop Boys in interviews, just how they’re so unspeakably brilliant, and they were really nice about my last record.

Then Neil got in touch saying, “Come on, let’s all go out for dinner.” I was wondering, “Oh, have they written a song for me?!” They hadn’t, they were working on an album and they’d almost f nished it, but we did all say, “We really ought to do something together at some point.” Then I started writing a book and this last year happened, so I don’t know.

“I’ve still got handwritten letters from Paul Weller to my student flat in Hull”

How is your knitting going? Marcus Greening, via email

I’m not a great knitter. The thing I’ve got into more is gardening. It’s quite creative, planting seeds and seeing the plants come up; it’s been a positive thing during lockdown, which has had that awful quality of stasis. The thing about gardening is it’s always changing, it gets you in touch with the changing seasons. At the beginning of lockdown last year I panicked about shopping because I had a couple of supermarket trips where the shelves were empty, so I started sowing seeds to grow food. I ended up growing loads of tomatoes and courgettes and lettuces – I mean, nowhere near enough, we wouldn’t have survived on what I grew! It was a comfort blanket, really. But I loved it so muchthatI’vedoneitagainthisyear.

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