15 minute read
Dating Dialogue
What Would You Do If…
Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW of The Navidaters
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Dear Thank you for taking the time to consider my question. My daughter, Tamar*, is dating a guy, and I am
Navidaters, starting to see some red flags that I’m not sure I should ignore or take seriously. He is busy and is constantly requesting that she be the one who travels to him. Sometimes she comes home on cloud nine and sometimes she comes home feeling confused, wondering if she did something wrong. She’s constantly doubting herself, and trying to fix things that my husband and I think don’t need to be fixed! For example, Tamar said her phone was dead while she was on the train to see him last week, and when they got on their date, he made it a big deal that he wasn’t able to reach her, insinuating that she was irresponsible and requested she should carry a charger from now on. There are so many examples, the list goes on…
In between all of these episodes, things are great and a lot of qualities mesh, but my husband and I are concerned for her.
What do you think?
--Concerned Ima
Disclaimer: This column is not intended to diagnose or otherwise conclude resolutions to any questions. Our intention is not to offer any definitive conclusions to any particular question, rather offer areas of exploration for the author and reader. Due to the nature of the column receiving only a short snapshot of an issue, without the benefit of an actual discussion, the panel’s role is to offer a range of possibilities. We hope to open up meaningful dialogue and individual exploration.
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The Panel
The Rebbetzin
Rebbetzin Faigie Horowitz, M.S.
You are smart to be concerned, Mom. The red flags seem to be indicators of serious control issues.
Your daughter is sensing that something is wrong but doesn’t seem to know that they are signs of a controlling personality. Speak with her but be skillful. Elicit, don’t tell. Ask her if she feels valued or controlled. Does he hear her or does he control the conversation? Use questions to lead her to the conclusion that these are troubling.
She is close enough to share her troubling instincts. Help her to sort them out and learn how to spot a problematic personality. She has the smarts. You have the smarts. Guide her to trust them.
The Shadchan
Michelle Mond
Those who read my answers know by now I am not one to jump to conclusions. However, based on your letter and reading between the lines, the boy Tamar is dating sounds as if he has characteristics of a typical narcissist. In every one of the psychology courses I have taken, this topic has been front and center. Narcissists come across as very engaging and often start relationships with a strong draw but then subtly use techniques (consciously or subconsciously) called gaslighting to make their friend/partner feel inferior in a way that makes the victim doubt him/herself. I did a lot of research on this topic a while back when I was having carpool issues with a woman who would constantly use this technique. She would say she sent texts that she never actually sent, conveniently “forgot” to mention she was not home many mornings in order to make me wait for no reason, and would blame me for not receiving messages. Every day there was a new story. Things got so bizarre that she even started blaming me for bad weather. I was actually doubting my own sanity. My loved ones (G-d bless them!) had to pull me out of it as if I was stuck in quicksand before I finally realized that this person was not healthy and using techniques to belittle and make me doubt myself at every turn.
In more defining terms, gaslighting is a form of manipulation in which a person places seeds of doubt in an individual, making them question their own sanity, sometimes even questioning their own memory of an incident, perception, or judgment. This, in turn, causes the victim to doubt his or herself and wonder what he or she has done wrong. Using denial, misdirection, and contradiction, gaslighting involves attempts to confuse the victim and delegitimize the victim’s beliefs. The victim often feels a constant need to bend and change due to character flaws that may not even exist.
Without knowing your daughter, I cannot tell you what to do, nor can I tell you that this is the exact case with the boy your daughter is dating. What I can say is that with this newfound knowledge which I just shared, you can more attentively assess whether the constant issues you are observing are of this nature.
You say she is constantly doubting herself – that was the number one flag I saw in your letter. Flag number two was how he placed seeds of doubt in her mind regarding her character – proceeding to say she was irresponsible when in reality it was a very normal incident: her phone died. To him it only meant one thing: he could not reach her at the exact moment that he wanted to therefore she was flawed and must change.
Although you did not give more examples, you stress that there are many to share along these lines. I urge you to explore this topic further with your daughter before she makes any decision whether to proceed. If she is able to see a pattern of this negative behavior, she will be a lot happier without him and will be so relieved when he is out of her life.
The Zaidy
Dr. Jeffrey Galler
When it comes to “red flags,” pay attention to your gut instincts.
However, in the incident that you cite, I must agree with the young man. It is extremely irresponsible for your daughter to travel by train, alone, with a dead phone. It should be obvious that she needs a functioning phone and charger on these trips.
It’s hard to venture an opinion here, because we’re missing a lot of information: *In the “dead phone” incident, did he criticize her gently and affectionately out of a sincere concern for her safety, or did he berate her and belittle her? *Will he always be too “busy” to treat a partner with courtesy, or is he only currently too busy (e.g. he’s in the middle of a medical residency or he’s studying for the bar exam)? *Have you and your husband taken the couple out to a long, leisurely, getto-know-you dinner at a (COVID-19 approved!) local restaurant?
I’ve always felt that inviting the couple to spend a Shabbos with your family, and likewise having the couple spend a Shabbos with his family, are indispensable tools for making important judgements about prospective life partners.
Good luck, and make sure your daughter wears a face mask on the train!
The Single
Rena Friedman
Concerned Mother, it must be so hard to watch your daughter in a relationship where your danger sensors are constantly going off. A friend and I were both just in very similar
Tamar should never fix herself for a guy.
situations over the summer, and I learned a lot of lessons along the way.
Tamar is not pregnant with her third child, trying to work, pay her mortgage, and make her husband dinner. She is dating Dovid, which is supposed to be fun, light, and airy. Yes, there are serious conversations that must be had, but overall, it should be an exciting time getting to know another person. The drastic difference between Tamar’s dates is too large. Not every single date is going to be the best date ever, but her feelings toward Dovid need to be consistently positive as time goes on.
Tamar should never fix herself for a guy, whether that is changing her clothes or makeup, the way she speaks, or the things she enjoys doing. No one should be in a relationship where she doubts herself, feels the need to change or fix herself, or feels worse about herself. This is a huge red flag. Tamar should feel good and confident in who she is and what she has to offer to the world. If Dovid is demanding she change something here and there, then he probably needs a different person entirely.
Tamar is looking for a husband, partner, and friend, not a father. The example you gave of Dovid being upset that Tamar didn’t answer her phone and reprimanding her is not how a healthy partner acts. I don’t care how great things can be and how their qualities mesh; this is extremely inappropriate and unacceptable.
Dovid needs a serious wake up call. I understand that every situation is unique and that lives are complex, but if he is agreeing to date then he needs to be willing, able, and ready to put in the effort to do so. Tamar is a lady, and she must be treated like one. Someone, perhaps his rav or mentor or the shad-
chan, needs to hammer him over the head. The fact that he even needs this a red flag. Is Tamar supposed to spend her entire life calling his rabbi every time he does something like this?
Tamar needs to jump ship NOW. I don’t know what your relationship with Tamar is like, so you need to tread on very careful waters. Whether it is you, her rebbetzin, or her mentor, someone needs to tell Tamar that she needs to leave. She will never be able to keep up with him. It’s extremely difficult to let go of something toxic that has those highs. Both my friend and I used an amazing dating coach who helped us each break up with the guys we were dating. Please email me and I can send you her contact information. I know this is painful, but I also know, since I just went through it, that Tamar will have clarity and menuchas hanefesh soon.
As always, all feedback, thoughts, and ideas are welcome: renafriedman2@ gmail.com.
Pulling It All Together completely by either pulling away and neglecting The Navidaters her, leaving her, treating her like a Dating and Relationship Coaches and Therapists second-class citizen, or gaslighting, etc. When the partner is utterly down in the dumps, con-
Dear Concerned Mother, fused, second-guess Your concerns are given over in this column, ing herself or depressed, legitimate. With limited information the essence of a narcissist is the narcissist swoops right in to and without the luxury of an in-person that he/she lacks empathy for begin the love bombing once again. meeting, I cannot offer you any kind others. Everything boils down to The confusion partners are left with of official diagnosis or assessment of whether or not people or places are is entirely real and it is a result of what this man’s behavior. Much like Dr. self-serving. has been called narcissistic abuse. Galler, I would want to understand In the first phase of a narcissist’s Can I say with certainty that this the situation in its entirety to rule out love, he will “love bomb” his partner. is what is going with Tamar and her other variables. However, in my opin- He will make her feel as though she is boyfriend? Absolutely not! Do I see ion, his words and behaviors, and the the most wonderful human being on certain indicators that it may be what way Tamar is responding is indicative the planet. In her work on narcissism, is going on? Yes, I do. of something potentially unhealthy in Dr. Ramani describes the love bomb- What can you do, as her mother? the relationship. ing phase as the narcissist putting his Talk to Tamar. Have a heart-to-heart The following incidents leave me partner on a pedestal. She is the most about what a healthy relationship looks with one eyebrow permanently raised: beautiful, the best, the most wonder- and feels like. Respect, admiration, 1. Tamar is the only one traveling. ful, the smartest, etc. etc. This phase communication, feeling safe to ex2. Tamar comes home often feeling of a narcissist’s love is rather intoxicat- press oneself… We do not have to fix confused, wondering if she did some- ing and addictive. It just feels so good. ourselves in order to be with someone thing wrong. In the second stage of a narcis- else. This is a recipe for control and 3. Tamar is now fixing herself. sist’s love, he/she will often devalue disaster. Does Tamar feel as though 4. Tamar is being labeled “irre- the partner. You are “irresponsible.” this guy loves her for who she is? sponsible.” You must travel to me because my time Parents often do not know how 5. In between incidents, things are is more important than yours. Un- to “behave” when an adult child is in great. derstand that with narcissistic love, what may be an unhealthy relation-
This pattern of things being great, the love bombing phase is so powerful ship. In my opinion, we have a duty to Tamar being called “irresponsible” that it leaves the partner usually will- at least try to have the conversation in or being picked on in any way, and ing to do almost anything or put up a supportive, non-confrontational, and then Tamar feeling as though she did with almost anything because of the loving way. What Tamar does with the something wrong and feeling confused extreme confusion of the polarity of information is her choice to make. is the way a narcissist loves a partner. the narcissist’s behavior. Ultimately, If I may use the column to expand Though the literature on narcissism is when the narcissist “has” his partner this topic to the broader dating readvast and the definition cannot be fully fixed, he will oftentimes discard her ership…
I know. I know you are often told by well-meaning family and friends that things will get better. Or maybe people are telling you they won’t get better but you are either so in love or not in love and worried that someone better won’t come along. I cannot tell anyone what to do. It isn’t my place as a therapist, and it certainly isn’t my place speaking in generalities from my computer screen. What I feel very comfortable saying is the following: Everyone deserves to be loved and deeply respected. If loving friends and family are seeing certain signs, please listen. They want what is best for you. The person you are dating is on his best behavior now. That’s right. If someone is making you feel badly, lacking confidence, unsettled or on shaky ground now, this typically (even always) gets worse once married. The thing is this…bringing this up to a potentially narcissistic partner through healthy communication will not help the situation. The narcissist will make you feel “crazy” for your feelings. You are not crazy! He/she may tell you that you are wrong for your feelings. He may try to prove it to you. You have to figure this one out outside of the relationship, typically with the help of trusted family or friends and with a mental health professional.
Concerned Mother, I do hope that you, or someone you enlist depending on your relationship with Tamar, speaks with her and that Tamar chooses to explore this.
Wishing you and Tamar all the best.
Sincerely,
Jennifer
Jennifer Mann, LCSW is a licensed psychotherapist and dating and relationship coach working with individuals, couples, and families in private practice at 123 Maple Avenue in Cedarhurst, NY. She also teaches a psychology course at Touro College. To set up a consultation or to ask questions, please call 516-224-7779, ext. 2. Visit www.thenavidaters.com for more information. If you would like to submit a dating or relationship question to the panel anonymously, please email thenavidaters@gmail.com. You can follow The Navidaters on FB and Instagram for dating and relationship advice.
